tv Meet the Press NBC February 10, 2020 2:00am-3:01am PST
this sunday primary colors. despite the iowa caucus model -- >> our campaign is off to a great start. >> it's our chance to make real change. >> we can feel how close we are. we can feel the wind at our back. >> pete buttigieg surges into a virtual twie with bernie sander in new hampshire polls. joe biden's fourth place finish has him on the attack. >> when you get attacked, you have to respond. i've get my mouth shut a long time. >> on friday's debate, buttigieg took on sanders -- >> a paolitics who says it's my way or the highway. >> are you talking about bernie
sanders? >> yes. >> we have a newcomer in the white house and look where it got us. >> my guests this morning, former south bend mayor pete buttigieg of indiana and senator bernie sanders of vermont. plus, president trump acquitted. >> i never thought a word would sound so good. it's called total acquittal. >> and vindictive. >> adam schiff is a vicious, horrible person. nancy pelosi is a horrible person. >> as he ousts two officials who testified at the house impeachment hearings. republicans say they hope the president learned a lesson from impeachment. but what lesson did he learn in the end? joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt. msnbc host joshua johnson. former democratic senator claire mccaskill of missouri and former republican senator john sununu of new hampshire. welcome to sunday and a special edition of "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in manchester, new hampshire, from
the new hampshire presidential primary, this is a special edition of "meet the press" with chuck todd. and a good sunday morning from manchester, new hampshire. we are back again at our better than ever headquarters in new hampshire where two days from now voters will either untangle the mess created in iowa or more likely further complicate the democrats' path to the white house. one thing we did learn this week, iowa may not be able to count, but it still counts. pete buttigieg's strong showing and joe biden's fourth place iowa finish have sent their candidacies in opposite trajectories. the latest wbz boston globe suffolk tracking poll shows bernie sanders with just a two-point lead over buttigieg, who has surged this week, 24-22 with elizabeth warren, joe biden and amy klobuchar trailing. klobuchar picked up the most overnight. perhaps seeing a bump from the debate. since tuesday buttigieg has gained 7 points overall and biden has lost 5 overall in that
poll. the other thing we learned is that matters could hardly be worse right now for democrats. the iowa vote count fiasco is a national impairment. the democratic party is divided against itself, left versus center left. the candidate once seens athe best chance of beating president trump is on a freefall and low on money. they are tear terrified of a sa nomination. president trump was acquitted of impeachment charges, his poll numbers are climbing and he's feeling as confident as ever. tuesday's primary may be among the state's most consequential in quite some time as voters clarify the direction of the democratic race, or not. >> billionaires by the dozens are contributing to pete buttigieg. >> the two front-runners now taking each other on on the trail -- >> you have to take on these people, not take money from them. >> we cannot risk dividing americans' future further, saying that you must either be for a revolution or you must be for the status quo.
>> and on stage -- >> a politics that says it's my way or the highway. >> are you talking about senator sanders? >> yes. >> i don't have 40 billionaires, pete, contributing to my campaign. >> after a fourth place finish in iowa and now polling fourth in new hampshire and leaking support -- >> i took a hit in iowa and i'll probably take a hit here. >> the biden campaign announced a limited shake-up on friday, elevating top aide anita dunn to an expanded role. now the fire once trained on biden -- >> joe biden is a friend of mine, and i'm not here to attack him. >> -- is turning on buttigieg instead. on friday night, buttigieg faced his most direct attacks from opponents eager to challenge him as the leading alternative to sanders. >> we have a newcomer in the white house and look where it got us. >> he's the mayor of a small city. >> senator warren, is that a substantial answer from mayor buttigieg? >> no. >> on saturday the biden campaign released a digital ad
mocking buttigieg's experience and calling his record into question. >> even when public pressure mounted defense him, former mayor pete fired the first african-american police chief of south bend and then he forced out the african-american fire chief too. >> this guy is not a barack obama. >> buttigieg is leaning in to his lack of experience. >> you don't have decades of experience in the establishment, the city you're the mayor of isn't even the biggest city in the country, it's more like manchester, new hampshire, to which i say that is very much the point. >> waiting in the wings, billionaire mike bloomberg who has already spent more than $273 million on ads, dwarfing the field, after iowa his campaign says he is doubling his spending. >> the president seems to view the republican party as a cult that will defend anything he does or says. >> i don't think anyone ought to be able to buy their way into a nomination. >> and tom steyer going negative
on the air and raising what may be the real test for both front-runners after new hampshire. >> unless you can appeal to the diverse parts of the democratic party, including specifically the black community, including specifically latinos, if you can't do that, then we can't beat donald trump. >> and joining me now is the former mayor of south bend, indiana, democratic presidential candidate pete buttigieg. welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be with you. >> two weeks in a row. last week i think you surprised a lot of people by a virtual tie in iowa given that we still don't have 100%, but everybody is coming at you now. looking at your record in south bend, concerned that no matter what the history of the democratic party is, this is a different time. donald trump is a different candidate. and there is a lot of concern that you won't be able to beat him. how do you alleviate this concern? >> the way to beat donald trump is certainly not to rely on the familiar playbook. and it's also, in my view, not
to say that we need either a revolution or you must be for the status quo. the reason my campaign was so effective, especially in places that supported barack obama and then donald trump in the caucuses is that we are reaching out to everybody, putting together a majority that is prepared not only to stand up for replacing this president, unified in what we're against, but even more so unified on what we're for, the need for economic empowerment, the need for higher wages, the need for health care, dealing with climate change and gun violence. there's a powerful american majority right now ready not only to win but to govern. and my campaign is about how to galvanize and not polarize that majority. that's how we're going to beat donald trump. >> let me play another clip from this digital attack ad from the biden campaign. here it is. >> joe biden helped lead the passage of the affordable care act, which gave health care to 20 million people. and when park goers called on
pete buttigieg, he installed decorative lights under bridges, giving citizens of south bend color fully illuminated rivers. >> there's a lot of subtext in this ad in various ways. i think the biggest simply is can your south bend record withstand the scrutiny that's going to come? you have painted a very positive picture, but when you start peeling back some of the layers here, there is some questionable things on your record, particularly on dealings with the african-american community. >> well, our story and the story of our city is that of a city facing tremendous challenges. when you're a mayor, you don't just get to opine on things or vote on things or call for things to change, you have to roll your sleeves up and do them. i think the question is, why is it that the voters who know me best in the african-american community, those in south bend are backing me. and it's not -- >> the not everybody. there's some leading -- a member of the city council in south bend who's not just not backing
you but calling you into leadership in the african-american community. >> most black elected officials involved in this campaign at all are supporting me and it's not because it's been perfect. this is my point. we actually have to deal with these issues on the ground from racial justice in policing to economic empowerment. actually one of the things the vp made fun of, an infrastructure investment, was an investment in minority-owned businesses on corridor on our city's west side because on the ground you have to do these things. we have faced these issues, rolled up our sleeves and gotten a real measurable track record of results. cutting black unemployment, cutting black poverty. our city was nationally recognized for work on economic empowerme empowerment. it's not that we solved all these issues in south bend, just like no one has solved these issues in the country. but i will stack up my record against anybody else who is running for president, all of whom are implicated in the realities that our country faces, especially when it comes
to racial and economic inequality. >> i guess the question comes with when did you these inequities in the african-american community. i think about during your tenure when ferguson happened. many mayors said we've got to look at our policing practices, make sure our police departments look like the community that they're policing. the evidence in south bend is questionable whether it looks like -- i think you make the argument that you did respond. the results don't look like that. >> why do you think that we implemented implicit bias training? why do you think that we led the region in transparency in reporting cases of the use of force, seeing what had happened in ferguson. why do you think i appointed an african-american majority on the civilian board overseeing our police department? and you know what? in terms of results, use of force incidents went down. in my second term arrest rates for black residents on drug charges were lower than they were across the state and across the country. is the record mixed?
of course it is because the reality is so tough and so complex. we had a lot of issues to deal with in my eighth year just as we did in my first year, but no one can say we were not intentional and have results to show for it. >> point to a mistake that you wish you had handled an incident differently, whether it's the firing of the police chief, the fire chief? >> certainly in my first few weeks when i was presented with the situation that led me to part ways with the police chief, i would have handled that differently. it was the last time i've ever fired somebody who reported to me without sitting down for a face-to-face conversation. that was a lesson i learned the hard way. >> you're running against some folks that have made mistakes. you've jumped on those mistakes. should their mistakes be forgiven the way you're asking your mistakes to be forgiven? >> this is how it works when each of us comes forward running for president. look at what we've done, what we've learned and what we're proposing for the road ahead. none of us presents ourselves
making the case that we're perfect, we present ourselves with a vision and with an idea about where america needs to go. i'm working in particular to earn the support of voters of color, many of whom, i think, didn't think we had much of a chance to begin with, to make sure i'm communicating who i am as well as what it is i propose to do. >> let me put it in these terms. these first four primaries are designed, i've always believed in different ways, to test if you have all the pieces of this puzzle for the democratic coalition. if you can't finish in the top two in nevada and south carolina, doesn't that send a message that you cannot be the candidate that brings this party together? >> i'll let pundits set the goal posts, but it's certainly the case that we need to do well in different parts of the country, in different states. every state is different. new hampshire is very independent minded and thinks differently than iowa. nevada and south carolina have a very different demographic makeup and that's part of what this process will bring out. >> the vice president is hitting you hard by implying that you're
attacking the obama presidency. let me ask the question this way. in the second term of the obama presidency, what do you think they did -- what do you think they could have done differently that could have prevented the rise of donald trump? >> i had the obama white house's back time and time again because they were doing the right thing. that wasn't always easy as a mayor in indiana. you know, in fact my first campaign statewide was on a platform of defending the obama administration's decision to rescue the auto industry, because i knew what that meant to my state. but those achievements were important because they met the moment. now we're in a different moment. this is 2020. >> no, i understand that. but why did we get donald trump in your view? and could this have been prevented by the obama-biden administration in your view? >> i don't think you can pin this on any one administration, but it's certainly the case that people are frustrated by a reality that they feel has left them out for 40 years. we felt it in my community. an industrial community in the heart of the so-called rust belt that didn't feel like washington
was hearing what we had to say. and i'm seeing so many communities, rural, industrial, even parts of some of our biggest cities where people of different backgrounds are questioning whether the economic and political realities are responding to what we need in our lives. now, in a very cynical and very divisive way, donald trump took advantage of that. now is your chance to put together the majority that will win big enough against donald trump that trumpism itself goes into the history books. >> i want to play what was, frankly, an uncomfortable moment to watch. this was a potential supporter of yours that when they found out you were married to a man, they backed off. let me play the moment. >> so are you saying that he has a same-sex partner? >> pete? >> yes. >> yes. >> are you kidding? >> he is married to him, yes. >> well, then i don't want anybody like that in the white house. so can i have my card back?
>> it's -- may not be fair but there's going to be voters like that. there's going to be some democratic operatives who are sitting there nervous going do you lose the white house because there's some voter who walks into the booth and just doesn't pull the lever simply because they have an issue with your private life. what do you say to those concerns? >> the first is what i have to say to that voter which is i'm saddened that she sees things that way but i'm running to be her president too. no matter who she votes for as president, i'm going to get up in the morning and try to do a good job for her and for every american. another thing i was struck by in that exchange is how well our volunteer handled the situation, reflecting the values of this campaign. look, the reality is prejudice is still out there and you've got to deal with it. i would not have been able to get re-elected where i did in mike pence's indiana if people were not able to look past that. every time somebody seeks to break a barrier pundits try to make it about electability.
>> instead of being a pundit here, have you taken a moment to appreciate the history that you've made? >> there's not a lot of time for reflection in a campaign. >> i understand. >> there was a moment we went out and it reminded me what this means for some kid peeking around the closet door wondering if this country has a place for them. i didn't set out to be the gay president, but certainly seeing what this means is really meaningful and really powerful. >> if you come out of here with a shot of momentum, first or second place, you may have a shot of momentum, you're staring at michael bloomberg's $273 million -- i saw your eyes widen when you saw him in our spot. you and him are vying for the same voter. how do you deal with it? >> well, it's about our vision. i have a vision for this country that is about moving us forward. it's about ensuring that we draw together the energies of democrats and independents and even some republicans who want to cross over. and one thing we have learned is that money alone can't buy
elections or ross perot would be the president of the united states right now. yes, of course fund-raising matters and being on the air waves matters, but part of what's so important about this process in the early states is i don't think you can skip having voters look you in the eye, ask you what you're going to do for them, challenge you, question you, and as the campaign goes on in terms of voters and reporters, seriously asking tough questions of all of the candidates, it has a leveling effect where money alone can't be the decisive factor. >> pete buttigieg, i'm going to have to leave it there. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. be safe on the trail. >> good to be with you. >> thank you, sir. when we come back, the new hampshire primary front-runner, senator bernie sanders joins me next. as we go to break, some of what we've been hearing from new hampshire voters. >> i know there's a big bernie wave, but i'm really not sure how much he can unite the party. >> i just worry about the electability question. >> elizabeth warren all the way, but i will vote for whoever the much is given.
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what began last week in iowa when voters here in new hampshire confirmed tonight is nothing short of the beginning of a political revolution. >> welcome back. that was exactly four years ago to the day if you saw the little date stamp up there after bernie sanders defeated hillary clinton by a whopping 22 points in the 2016 new hampshire primary. there wenaren't going to be any 22-point wins this year as it's become a toss-up between sanders, buttigieg and perhaps even more in this field. senator bernie sanders joins me now. welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> good to be with you. >> i want to talk a little bit about iowa and '16 a little bit. you are a believer that your candidacy is about turning people out. at the end of the day turnout was disappointing, you admitted that in iowa. we don't see record-breaking
turnout here, does this undermine sort of the biggest point you make on electability, which is nobody else can bring out the young vote but you. but if you can't get other voters, isn't that an issue? >> well, you know what, you're right. the voter turnout in iowa was not what i wanted. i think other candidates were not able to bring out their voters as well. but at the end of the day, we won the iowa vote by 6,000. we won the realignment vote by 2,500. where i come from, that's a victory. here's something not talked about a whole lot. the young vote of people under 29 years of age increased by 33% over where it was four years ago and was even higher than obama's extraordinary victory in 2008. so young people did come out in very big numbers, which i think is a great omen for the 2020 campaign. >> except you can't win voters outside of that very well. you were in single digits among older voters. i say this because older voters vote. >> the answer is yes and no.
the answer is we are having -- we have got to work on this issue because my record for senior citizens is a very strong record and we're going to work on that. i'm the strongest defender you can see in defending social security and so forth. but in terms of democrats, in terms of running against trump, we do just fine with senior citizens who will vote for me against trump if they're democrats. >> you have been railing in the different ways other people raise money. >> yes. >> if you're the nominee, michael bloomberg has said if he's not the nominee, he still wants to spend all his money defeating donald trump. are you going to refuse that help? >> let's talk about money and politics. right now our campaign, as you know at this moment, has received more campaign contributions from more americans averaging $18.50 than any candidate in the history of the american politics. that's extraordinary. we are funded by the working families of america. teachers are the profession that
is contributing most. we had a lot of contributions from amazon workers and so forth. we have, unlike my opponents, pete buttigieg, who was just here, really nice guy, i like pete. he has received, i believe, contributions from over 40 billionaires. joe biden the same. >> can a billionaire not have an issue about income inequality? can a billionaire not be wanting to see expanded health care? these are individuals too. >> they are. and mike bloomberg has every right in the world to run. he was mayor of new york city, he has a right to defend his record. but i think it speaks to a corrupt political system when billionaires can buy elections. you wanted to run for president? that's fine, but you should not be able to spend hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. now, by the way, to answer your question, because of the broad base of support that we have from working families, now, they may only contribute $25 or $50, we will be able to raise the money we need to defeat trump and i believe we are the strongest to defeat trump. >> do you not want this help? >> right now -- >> look, you have some -- you
have pacs helping you. they're not necessarily super pacs, but you have some outside groups helping you. maybe you don't want them to help. >> i don't want them, that's right. >> but they are. there's half a million dollar -- some would call it dark money. >> some of them are nurses and some are immigration activists and civil rights activists. >> i understand that. do you not want their help? >> we have a system which is broken. >> i understand that. >> yeah, i'm saying right now if my opponents say they don't want that third-party help, i'm all for that right now. let's end it. >> but right now you'll accept the help. >> people have a right to participate in the political process. but again getting back to the fundamental issue, the reason we have so much income inequality, the reason we are the only major country not to guarantee health care to all people, the reason almost new income and wealth goes to the top 1% is precisely because of the corrupt political system which allows billionaires to have inordinate influence over the economic and political life of the country. >> the other issue that has the
democrat establishment -- >> do you think they're getting nervous? >> they get nervous and there's one word that gets them nervous, socialism. >> democratic socialism. >> democratic social itissocial. do you acknowledge that an economy that on its surface looks pretty good to quite a few people, this is a fairly low unemployment rate, do you acknowledge it's tougher to sell your economic ideas in this perceived good economy? >> i don't think so. i think trump is a fraud. i think under trump the top 1%, i've seen hundreds of billions of dollars increase in their wealth. do you know what real inflation accounted for increase in wages was last year for the average worker? less than 1%. >> it's the first time it had gone up in a while. >> 17 cents an hour. >> hasn't been going up for -- >> but how do you talk about an economy that's working when the people on top are making hundreds of billions of dollars more and the average worker is making 17 cents.
we need -- we need an economy that works for working people. and my agenda is that agenda. that's raising the minimum wage, that's health care for wall, that's making sure that all of our kids, regardless of their income, can get to college or trade school by imposing a modest tax on wall street speculation. >> someone that likes their 401(k) but doesn't like the character of donald trump, how do you convince them to vote for you? >> i convince them to vote for us because we are going to create an economy that works for the middle class -- >> but they think their economy works well for them. >> for some of them it may. but here is the reality. half of the american people are living paycheck to paycheck. today you've got half a million people sleeping out on the streets, when you've got three people owning more worth than the bottom half of america. the only country in the world, major country in the world not to guarantee health care to all people. we've got 45 million people struggling with student debt. please don't tell me that this economy is working well for all people. it is working phenomenally well
for trump's billionaire friends, not for working people. >> the reason i bring up the "s" word. let's take the swing state of florida, i grew up in miami. they're going to tie socialism to venezuela, they're going to tie comments you made about morales in bolivia, they're going to say you will appease socialists in latin america. you have not condemned them the way others have condemned them and use that to try to wedge people. you know that is what they are going to do. >> look, we're dealing with a president who is a pathological liar. he's going to say anything he wants about joe biden, about pete buttigieg. >> you stood behind morales when it clearly -- >> i stood with evo morales in condemning a coup. i do not like military coups. >> he tried to violate his country's constitution. >> well, that's another discussion. i don't know that everybody is interested in ecuador but he was overthrown by the military.
not a particularly good president. we've got a president of the united states who's cozying up to the autocrat putin, who says nice things about kim jong-un. so you want to talk about cozying up to communists around the world and me, it is donald trump. >> let me ask you a few quotes from some members of congress who are concerned about your elg electabili electability. if bernie sanders is our nominee it will make a lot of those trump districts we picked up competitive. connor lamb, i don't think i'd be doing my job as a representative to these people in western pennsylvania if i supported someone who wanted to destroy their livelihood. specifically he's talking about fracking. whether fair or not, this is the concern out there the among a lot of elected democrats. >> this is part of the establishment democrats. what i am suggesting that is we are going to bring -- in 2016, and we'll see what happens in 2020, but i think the story will be the same. in a lot of districts which trump ended up winning, we won during the primary process.
i think a lot of working people understand that trump is a fraud, that our campaign is in fact prepared to take on the billionaire class when trump is part of the billionaire class. i think we'll win a lot of those districts. i think we're going to increase voter turnout among young people very, very substantially. >> will it hurt your candidacy if these candidates say i don't support his agenda -- >> i think at the end of the day, and i have said this and repeat it right now. i think i can speak for all of the democratic candidates and that is we will come together to defeat donald trump. i am i am the nominee. i will come behind somebody else if they are the nominee. >> in september of 2019 before your heart incident, you had said the following about your medical records. take a listen. >> i think it's the right thing to do. the american people have a right to know whether the person they're going to be voting for for president is healthy. we will certainly release our medical records before the primary. certainly before the first votes are cast.
>> the first votes have already been cast. you did not release your medical records. you released a few letters. nobody interviewed your doctors. you did have a heart attack apparently. shouldn't voters see your medical records? >> we have released as much documentation i think as any other candidate. >> but no other candidate has had a heart attack. >> no other candidate is doing four or five events a day running all over this country. >> there's no doubt you've proven your mettle here but you've heard voters concerned about you. >> you can start releasing medical records and it never ends. we have released the substantive part of our medical records. we have doctors and cardiologists who have confirmed i am in good health. i am in good health. >> what changes did the doctors ask you to make that you've made? >> i'm trying to walk a little bit more but the schedule doesn't allow me. trying to sleep a little bit better. sometimes that's hard. i'm feeling great, thanks. >> my guess is winning will help you sleep better? >> winning will make me sleep a lot better and i think we're
going to do just that. >> senator bernie sanders, the independent democrat from vermont, be safe on the trail, sir. >> thank you. by the way, we did ask both joe biden and elizabeth warren to join us as we have every week this year and both declined. when we come back, new hampshire is known for surprises. remember hillary clinton shocking barack obama here in 2008? so what surprises may be in store for us on tuesday? the panel is next. >> thank you, new hampshire, for welcoming us to this state over the course of the last year. >> with your help, we're going to win here in new hampshire. >> and i'm counting on new hampshire. >> thank you, new hampshire democrats! >> this is o (burke) at farmers insurance, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a "gold medal grizzly." (sports announcer) what an unlikely field in this final heat.
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welcome back. the panel is here. the former host of npr's 1a and new host on msnbc, joshua johnson. former democratic senator, claire mccaskill of missouri. nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt and former republican senator john e. sununu of new hampshire. welcome, welcome. i want to take a closer look at that "boston globe" tracking poll. since tuesday, the day after iowa, bernie sanders has held very steady and in fact regained the lead, though barely as you can see in this line graph. pete buttigieg has soared from 15 when the week began to 22 now, though his momentum appears to have ebbed a bit. elizabeth warren has gained a little but she's still well behind buttigieg and sanders. and there's joe biden who dropped sharply and amy klobuchar had the biggest post-debate bump yet, 3 points in this poll today so new
hampshire is delivering perhaps, kasie hunt, a photo finish, first time this century, that new hampshire and the democratic party -- primary may matter. >> it's remarkable, chuck. i think you're seeing this in how your interview with pete buttigieg, interesting for this reason. he potentially the person who stands to gain the most from a strong possibly second place finish to bernie sanders, who is obviously a local and won big here before. but i think that explains why you're suddenly seeing the former vice president go on the attack against buttigieg in the way that he has the last 24 hours. >> john sununu, you know these quirky new hampshire voters better than most and you've been the victim and you've been the beneficiary at times. >> consistently -- >> what do you expect from these independents? could they be a problem for sanders and buttigieg? >> well, i think both are going to draw fairly effectively from the undeclared spectrum. and it's a very broad spectrum.
undeclared voters on the left, on the right, on the middle, they'll both do very well. the story about who victory, and we'll know, we'll have the votes counted. i think you've got to give the edge to bernie sanders who will do so well in the river valley and college campus. to me the story is who else can get above 15%, because this is, after all, a race for delegates. joe biden is close, elizabeth warren is close. it's going to be important for both of them to come out of here at least being able to say we won delegates, we're still in the mix. >> claire mccaskill, joshua johnson, i want to show you a couple of quotes that were in the hand-wringing quotes, if you will, from some democrats. here's former presidential candidate, beto o'rourke. there's a school of thought that you shouldn't talk about impeachment and instead talk about infrastructure and health care as if they're mutually exclusive. you can't shy away from the most obvious threat to this country. jennifer palmieri, concocting
frankenstein to take on trump has confined us all. it's all about the muddled picture we have is really this hand wringing, isn't it? >> well, i think once the democratic party is more certain about who the nominee is, you're going to see a real coming together of everyone. i really do believe that. trump represents the best unifier the democratic party could ever hope for. i think one of the things that's going to be interesting tuesday night, chuck, is how does elizabeth warren do. you know, this is next door for her. just like iowa was next door for amy. amy didn't get in the top four in iowa. the question is will elizabeth not get in the top four in new hampshire? and what does that mean for both of them? i think if elizabeth doesn't get into the top four in new hampshire, then there's going to be a lot of people trying to poach her voters. >> you know, joshua, i look at every resume. if you look at it from the electability lens, they all have a fatal flaw.
and obviously somebody is going to get the nomination. i'm counting michael bloomberg. they all seem to have something, you're like, oh, i don't know if that's going to work. but we've them is going to have to become the nominee. >> one of them is going to have to become the nominee. i think one of the things that democrats are going to remember from 2016 is this whole question of a narrative. i mean that's exactly why a lot of bernie sanders supporters came out of 2016 ticked off because they felt like the dnc told them, no, no, no, you're kind of supporting the wrong person. you can vote for who you want but shouldn't you be voting for -- so one of the things i'm interested in seeing in 2020 is how much we will allow democrats to make their own choice. the story of who the party is supposed to support is not up to us, it's up to democrats. the fact that this process is murky is fine. let them vote. it's okay for voters to make this decision. it's not comfortable. it makes it hard for us to prognosticate. but if there's one thing the people i talked to came out of
2016 feeling is that they were told what the narrative was supposed to be and they felt like votes were kind of being whipped from the top down. i don't know who democrats are going to pick, but i would presume they'd like to pick for themselves. >> so i hear you on that and there's a lot of theories as to why hillary clinton lost in 2016. >> for sure. >> but i covered the entirety of the bernie sanders campaign. and it was very clear way before that process was over that he was not going to be the nominee, mostly because african-american voters in the south said we're not going to vote for you. and that was known. and he stayed in it anyway. some of the anger is on the clinton side because they feel like he did damage to her in a nominating process that stretched out for months when it didn't have to. so i think my question for democrats is, are they going to feel that is an imperative or are we going to end up in the same place where all the millions of dollars, all the anger is playing out into july while trump is doing a victory march. >> right now it's the exact opposite because if you just
look at a glide path, you would say, well, bernie sanders is probably the most likely nominee. and some people would say that's the biggest risk for the democrat party. >> yeah. >> others would say, no, the biggest risk is that bernie won't be the nominee and what does that mean to his voters, his supporters, where are they going to go. because to the question of are democrats going to be unified, i would agree with claire. the democrats will unify behind the nominee, whoever it is. i never thought it would be as easy for trump to unify republicans going into the general election after that primary. the real question, though, is can that democratic nominee appeal to the middle, to the center, to those voters in pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan? that's the question. >> whoever the nominee is going to appeal to a lot of women who think the guy in the white house is just a mess. and they're tired of the chaos and the drama. >> but the voter generally speaking that elected donald trump were those voters in pennsylvania and wisconsin and
michigan -- >> by the way, you're making a bernie case. in some ways these folks did want the disruption, claire. i will say this with bernie, when you look at the numbers of bernie election matchups with trump, the swing voter with bernie is much different than the swing voter with everybody else. >> that's true, but i believe the anti-trump is stronger in the swing voter, at least in my state. i believe the swing voter in my state is more anti-trump than they are for or against any potential nominee in the democratic party. >> one other aspect, kasie, since you brought up african-american voters, i was interested this week that so much was said about black voters and the plight of black people in the debate on friday, which historically to have this stage of mostly white candidates talking very strongly about the need to support the black community historically is something. at the same time, i can hear black voters saying if we're so important, why aren't we there? you're talking about us without us. cory booker is gone, kamala
harris is gone, julian castro is gone. you've got one asian and six well-meaning white people telling us what you're going to do with us while we aren't on the stage anymore. >> can pete survive his south bend record with african-american voters? >> i think he can. i think if he -- look, we ain't stupid, all right? we know how to google like everybody else. i think if you have perceived wrongs with the black community, you need to go talk to black people. and i don't just mean talking to like one or two black exemplars. go to a church, go to a community group, take questions and take the heat and let people hear you say, look, mea culpa. here's what i have learned to meet the needs of african-americans as it relates to equal justice, but you have to talk to us directly. >> very curious what he does post new hampshire. that probably becomes a one track focus for that campaign. when we come back, despite its problems, why iowa may still tell us a lot
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. welcome back. data download time. what happens tuesday night right here in new hampshire will either confirm what we learned a week ago in iowa or could hint that this race is far from over. but if we choose to believe what iowa taught us, there may be one clear beneficiary, pete buttigieg. and you can see it when you look at what happened between the first and second vote tallies last monday night. as voters realigned, buttigieg saw his vote total go up by more than 5600 votes. it looks as if he took his votes from joe biden and amy klobuchar. both of whom lost votes from the first and second realignments. but that ideological consolidation did not happen on the progressive side of the spectr spectrum. instead bernie sanders and elizabeth warren both gained by roughly equal amounts, drawing off votes from lower tiered candidates like andrew yang and
tom steyer rather than from each other. in fact for all the talk about their similar positions, their supporters are pretty different from each other. warren's supporters at the caucuses were made up of more women but most of all she did 54 points better among people who caucused for hillary clinton in 2016 and only reasonably well among caucus goers 17 to 34, the sanders stronghold. sanders did pretty well among women, but while he gets wiped out among clinton voters, he dominates among those younger voters. 82% of his supporters were in that younger age bracket. and that may make it particularly difficult for either to pull votes away from the other here in new hampshire, which then leaves who? buttigieg in an enviable position. first, unlike 2016 there's no competitive republican primary to woo those moderate and independent voters, people who may now go for buttigieg. second, if buttigieg can continue to take votes from biden and klobuchar as he did in iowa while sanders is unable to
win over warren voters, he may be positioned for an upset with over two of new hampshire's neighboring senators. when we come back, end game. some republicans said they hoped president trump would learn if you looked at america like a bird. and that was all you knew, would you really understand it, with just that point of view? we've got a different way to look at it, from right here on the ground. we don't just the united states we see united towns. we're grateful for what you bring, and all the sparks you've shown, in the thousands of towns that we get to call home. ♪ (woman) no matter what business you are in, digital transformation never stops. verizon keeps business ready for what's next. (man) we weave security into their business... (second man) virtualize their operations... (third man) and could even build ai into their customer experiences. we also keep them ready for the next big opportunity. like 5g.
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back now with end game. this was the week that the president was acquitted and he is pretty fired up about that. but what's interesting is what many of the senators who were uncomfortable with what he did but decided to acquit him all hoped or claimed he would learn a lesson. we know he's learned a lesson, but let's see what lesson he's learned. take a listen to this. >> i believe that the president has learned from this case.
>> they're vicious and mean. vicious. these people are vicious. adam schiff is a vicious, horrible person. >> i would think he would think twice before he did it again. >> we went through hell unfairly, did nothing wrong. it's called total acquittal. >> john sununu, while i ask you about what lesson he learned, i also want to put up this donald trump jr. tweet. allow me a moment to thank, and that may be a surprise, adam schiff. were it not for his crack investigation skills, real donald trump might have had a tougher time unearthing who all needed to be fired. thanks, adam. what lesson did the president learn? >> i don't know. if i don't know if he learned a lesson or not. i think lamar alexander said it well, you hope that he did. maybe in his dealing and communication with foreign leaders, that he separates his personal thoughts and personal or political thoughts from the issue at hand.
but anyone who thinks his behavior or general tone is going to change is probably mistaken. think about four years ago. people said, well, donald trump is an unusual person, but once he's running for president, his behavior will probably change. and then during the primaries, you said, well, we've never seen a primary like this, but if he were to get the nomination, you know his behavior and his tone would change. and then they said, well, if he somehow manages to win the general election, he'll sort of take a different approach. i mean how many times do we have to fool ourselves? he is who he is. >> lucy will always pull the football. >> and at the same time it enabled him to win a general election, to win states republicans haven't won in a long time and to pass legislation on taxes and trade and criminal justice reform that most people would have said were impossible when he first assumed office. >> chuck, all this did was reinforce the lesson that donald trump the reality television star has learned and relearned
his entire life. what did we hear on the campaign trail? i could walk down fifth avenue shooting people and they would still support me. what did we hear from that "access hollywood" tape, if you're famous, they let you do anything. now it turns out you can make a call like this, do these things, try to get a foreign power to investigate a political rival and, you know what, you can step all over the republican party. they will go right ahead and let you do it. that is ultimately the lesson that has been sent by this republican senate, whether they like it or not. >> i'm just struck by the things that supposedly he's gotten done. he did a trade deal that's a little different than nafta and pleased all the unions. he did a tax cut with only republican votes that pleased mostly the 1%ers and he did criminal justice reform that had 99 senators before it ever hit the white house. there's no infrastructure, there's nothing on prescription drug prices, there's nothing on protecting pre-existing conditions. this president is a marketer and he's done it well. but i will tell you this, his
marketing skills, when he frog walked that purpl heart recipient, his numbers have been going down and that didn't help him. >> that will be the most illuminating part of all of this. i didn't learn anything about donald trump. there's a bible verse that says out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. i thought the reaction of those on social media saying, oh, my gosh -- i was taken by the fact that adam schiff and mitt romney gave two sides of the same speech at the end of the trial. adam schiff was talking about the long lens of history in a secular sense, how history, how your grandchildren will judge what you do today. mitt romney was talking about who your allegiance is really to, is it to donald trump or is it to god, to the rock of your salvation? there's a bible verse in matthew that says you cannot serve god and money.
and that was the point of what mitt romney said. you can't serve others and yourself. so what i learned this week is that this trial has kind of crystallized for people across the political spectrum, oh, this is not a drill, this is -- this is actually a pivot point. >> so the -- i'm not a big fan of the way these firings were handled with sondland and vindman. but let's sort of be clear. they were political appointees. they served at the pleasure of the president. and they're gone. the emotion and the drama that the media puts behind these firings is very typical -- >> but the way he did it. it's the way he did it. he could have moved them. >> i said i agree they didn't do it well. but this is so inside baseball. this is washington. this doesn't matter. it's a political art that we've been talking about. >> john, you have a new hampshire neighbor named mitt romney who does spend some time here in the summers.
what's your party going to do to him? >> nothing. absolutely nothing. >> you don't think trump will lead a vengeance campaign against the romneys? >> no. it's not as if they were close friends to start with. mitt voted his conscience. but let's also be clear just because one person stands up and says i voted my conscience does not mean that everyone who disagrees with him didn't vote theirs. and again, this is where the washington media becomes very self-absorbed in assuming that anyone who voted to acquit donald trump wasn't voting their conscience. that's just ridiculous. >> that's a fair point there. i will leave it there. that is all for today. a pretty busy new hampshire morning here. thank you for watching. thank you for coming to us again. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." university.
>> hydration, fatigue, mal nourishment. a lot of people are feeling ♪lot of people are feeling history at the academy awards as "parasite" takes top honors iowa is finally in the books. now the 2020 candidates are trying to squeeze every last vote out of new hampshire. who's rising and he's falling. we now know more about the two gunned down in afghanistan and whether it was an insider attack or not. more on the corona virus as the toll climbs.