tv 60 Minutes CBS December 10, 2017 7:00pm-8:00pm PST
captioning funded by cbs and ford. captioning funded by cbs >> whitaker: this is the mostcc: destructive fire season on record in california. governor jerry brown declared a state of emergency this past week as raging wildfires whipped by fierce santa ana winds enveloped los angeles in ways people have never seen before. and, as you'll hear, california's governor criticizes president trump with righteous passion for rejecting the science of climate change that he says is the cause. >> jerry brown: i don't think president trump has the fear of the lord. the fear of the wrath of god. >> stahl: alexei navalny has chosen one of the most dangerous occupations in the world: running against vladimir putin to be the next president of russia.
he's been arrested and attacked, but he's still attracting crowds of russians all over the country. why are you still alive? >> navalny: this is the favorite question of my wife. >> stahl: is it, in your mind, worth your life? >> navalny: i think i'm ready to sacrifice everything. year of the hunger games. >> cooper: donald sutherland has been descried as one of the greatest actors never to have been nominated for an oscar. >> sutherland: always with the negative waves. >> cooper: he's been in more than 150 movies and tv shows, but still agonizes over each character he plays, and is still plagued by self-consciousness about how he looks. >> sutherland: its not easy, anderson. it's not easy to know that you're an ugly man, in a business like i'm in. >> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl.
>> i'm scott pelley. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> >> i'm bill whitaker. those stories tonight on "60 minutes." it's a lot easier to make decisions when you know what comes next. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira, we make sure you're in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded.
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brown has been governor of california twice. the first time, 40 years ago. he criticizes the president on taxes. california is suing the trump administration over health care, immigration, and air quality. but nothing raises more righteous passion in jerry brown than the issue of climate change. he castigates the president for denying the science and aggravating a problem governor brown says is causing california to burn. this is the most destructive fire season on record in california. governor jerry brown declared a state of emergency this past week as raging wildfires, whipped by fierce santa ana winds and fueled by bone-dry brush, laid waste to tens of thousands of acres in southern california. the smoke plume that shrouded the los angeles area could be seen from space. the fires that ravaged
california's famed wine country in october were the deadliest the state has ever seen. whole neighborhoods were incinerated. dozens of people were killed. >> jerry brown: the fire season used to be a few months in the summer. now it's almost year-long. these fires are unprecedented. we've never seen anything like it. scientists are telling us, "this is the kind of stuff that's going to happe and we've got to deal with it. >> whitaker: it's going to happen, he says, based on science that predicts extreme swings in weather patterns. this year, southern california experienced record heat in october and november, creating the perfect conditions for this. >> jerry brown: nature is not a political game. nature is the ground on which we stand, it's the air which we breathe. and the truth of the case is that there's too much carbon being emitted, that heat- trapping gasses are building up, the planet is warming and all hell is breaking loose. >> whitaker: president trump has famously called climate change a hoax.
when he pulled out of the paris climate accord, he said this wasn't a good deal for the united states. >> jerry brown: that's a preposterous idea, not even a shred of truth in that statement. so i'd say to mr. trump, take a deeper look. now is not the time to undo what every country in the world is committed to. >> whitaker: are you fearful? >> jerry brown: oh, yeah, you should. anyone who isn't is not-- not looking at the facts. i don't think-- president trump has a fear of the lord. the fear of the wrath of god, which leads one to more humility. and this is such a reckless disregard for the truth and for the existential consequences that can be unleashed. >> whitaker: if he sounds like a jesuit seminarian, it's because he was one, years ago. now, he's a climate missionary, traveling the world, preaching the gospel of renewable energy. at the vatican; in china, where president xi jinping discussed
collaborating with california on cutting greenhouse gases. brown went to the global climate summit in bonn, germany last month. he and former new york mayor, michael bloomberg, led a delegation of mayors and legislators representing 40% of the u.s. economy. while the official u.s. delegation, sent by the white house, showed up to promote coal, brown went to tell the world president trump doesn't speak for all americans. >> jerry brown: california is not waiting for trump. we're not waiting for all the deniers. >> whitaker: he's already weaning california off fossil fuels. to give us a glimpse of the future, brown took us to this 62-acre solar farm near sacramento on the site of a decommissioned nuclear power plant. you said that you want to have 50% of california's electricity generated by renewable sources by-- >> jerry brown: by 2030. >> whitaker: 2030. and you--
wtaker: --think you're going to beat that? >> jerry brown: yes, no question about it. >> whitaker: with the federal government standing down on climate action, california is blazing its own trail. what can you, the governor of one state in the united states, do to fill in the void? >> jerry brown: as governor of california, we have a cap and trade system, which is a very efficient way to reducing greenhouse gases. we have zero emission vehicle mandate. we have efficiency standards for our buildings, for our appliances. so california is showing that dealing with climate is good for the economy, not bad. >> whitaker: california is booming. under brown, it has grown from the 9th largest economy in the world, to the 6th. it's now bigger than france, with a budget surplus of more than $7 billion. when you first came into office this time, california faced more than $50 billion in debt and deficits.
there were headlines that california was going to be the first "failed state." >> jerry brown: the fact is we cut the budget, we raised taxes and the economy roared back. >> whitaker: you cut the budget. you raised taxes. these days, that sounds like a prescription for political suicide? >> jerry brown: you've got to pay some taxes. you have to invest. we need to invest in the technology of tomorrow or somebody else will. and that somebody is china, india and other countries. you're not going to-- poor-mouth yourself to the future. and roads cost money, that's called taxes. r.& d. cost money, colleges cost money-- schools, childcare, all of that. we're a rich country and we can handle it. >> whitaker: but california's economic success has come at a cost. housing prices are through the roof. so are the ranks of the homeless. a quarter of the country's homeless live in california. >> jerry brown: this is not paradise. we have lots of problems. but california is the engine of
america, and i like to remind my fellow citizens, when you kind of look askance at this state, you're looking at one of the-- not the only one, but a major contributor to the well-being of the whole country. >> whitaker: california is vital to the national economy. that's why brown is so angered by the new tax overhaul legislation being pushed by house and senate republicans. they call it a tax cut, but brown says by eliminating deductions for state and local taxes, it would actually increase the tax burden on high- tax blue states like california. he and other blue state governors say the bill is retaliation against trump's opponents. brown called it evil and divisive. do you think the republicans are intentionally trying to punish the blue states that didn't vote for president trump? >> jerry brown: i know this: the republicans have this cult. just like they believe there's
no climate problem, they believe that cutting corporate taxes without any money to pay for it, they think it's magic. it'll make everything wonderful. very irresponsible. very dangerous. >> whitaker: but california republicans say brown's tax hikes are irresponsible. in trump's america, jerry brown's california seems far out on the frontier. california doesn't look like the rest of the country. minorities now are the majority of the population. it doesn't act like the rest of the country. the state voted to legalize recreational marijuana starting in january, will soon offer a third gender choice on drivers' licenses. hillary clinton trounced president trump here by more than four million votes. it seems that california is way out of step with the rest of the country. >> jerry brown: but i'd say we're more in tune with the future than many parts of-- the rest of the country. >> whitaker: you think the country is going to look more like california in the future?
>> jerry brown: i think it will. i was asking myself, "why did democrats in ohio and wisconsin and michigan, pennsylvania, why'd they vote for trump?" not a lot of them did, but enough to give him those states' electoral votes. >> whitaker: and your answer? >> jerry brown: there's more confidence here; there's less fear. people are looking to the future. they're not scared, they're not going inward, they're not scapegoating, they're not blaming mexican immigrants. they're not blaming the stranger. just the opposite. it's is a place that's alive. it's dynamic. it's a culture that's on the move. not pulling up the draw bridge out of fear and-- and economic insecurity. >> whitaker: jerry brown is california's 39th and oldest governor. when he first held the office in 1975, he had a full head of hair. his father, pat brown, had been governor eight years before. when you look at all the staid portraits of his predecessors in the capitol rotunda, it's obvious jerry brown is not like
the others. not many politicians spent four years in the seminary, as brown did in the 1950s. or dated a rock star. he went out with linda rondstadt in the '70s. >> jerry brown: i've seen a lot of different things. i've worked with mother theresa. i've spent six months doing zen meditation in kamakura, japan, and i've run for president three times. i've done very incompatible things. >> whitaker: people who like you will say that that's evidence of intellectual flexibility. people who don't like you, say that that's evidence of your being flighty. >> jerry brown: well, i'm not going to-- that's that psychobabble. >> whitaker: whatever you call it, his far-out politics his first time in office earned him the moniker, governor moonbeam. we found him to be down to earth. he's california casual at the office. his dog colusa has the run of the place. are you better at being governor this time?
>> jerry brown: yeah, it's a different experience. 79 is not 36. different ball game in every way. so i would say-- i know more, i understand more. >> whitaker: what have you learned about yourself in those intervening years? >> jerry brown: there's something you lose with age, your physical prowess, but mental acuity and-- just, life experience is very important. so, i enjoy the job a lot more. >> whitaker: it's hard to see why. his liberal policies make him a punching bag for conservatives, and he's not universally loved by liberals. he's a political maverick. he's rolling back state union pensions. he refuses to curb oil production until there's a viable alternative. a majority of californians like what he's doing, but he's been doing this for almost 50 years, and he says it's time to hang up his political spurs. when he leaves office in january
2019, he swears he's going to leave elective politics behind. i think you're going to miss this. >> jerry brown: no, i won't. >> whitaker: you don't think so? >> jerry brown: next year, i'll be 80, okay? and what do i want to do with my life? that's-- that's my question. >> whitaker: what do you want to do? >> jerry brown: well, i want to spend time with my wife. >> whitaker: a go-it-alone bachelor nearly all of his adult life, jerry brown now has a partner to share his life: anne gust brown, a former executive at the gap. they married in 2005. their plan is to retire here, to this ranch, in a golden valley north of sacramento. they're building their dream ranch house-- with solar panels, of course. it's off the grid, and way off the beaten path. the governor, and colusa, showed us around. this is beautiful, governor. this is pretty steep.
>> jerry brown: oh, you haven't seen nothing yet. >> whitaker: he told us he's going out at his peak, stepping away from the fray, on land his great grandfather settled in the 1860s. he said he intends to be a modest rancher. he's going to unplug and unwind. do you think this man sitting next to you is going to be content puttering around-- >> jerry brown: wouldn't-- >> whitaker: --the ranch? >> jerry brown: --it "puttering." i don't "putter." >> anne gust brown: he sure doesn't putter. no. >> whitaker: running-- as he said, running a modest ranch. >> anne gust brown: we both wonder about it. because we've been running a hundred miles an hour, and now we're going to be in a place that's almost the opposite of that, and we'll see. >> jerry brown: yeah, we're out on the frontier, as ere. >> whitaker: and you're going to like that? >> jerry brown: well, i like being on the frontier. that's for sure. type 2 diabetes.here to test people's knowledge about so you have type 2 diabetes?
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the best coffee house in town about russia meddling in our 2016 presidential campaign. but the russians are already buzzing about their presidential election next march. because, unexpectedly, vladimir putin has a genuine challenger: a handsome, 41-year-old lawyer, alexei navalny, who has chosen one of the most dangerous occupations in the world, running against the man who controls the kremlin. the election process in russia is tightly managed by the government, but navalny's been drawing big crowds to his protests and rallies all over the country, where he laces into putin with no holds barred. >> alexei navalny ( translated ): putin is a thief and the head of the entire corrupt system!
>> stahl: this is one brave man. not only because he has taken on the all-powerful vladimir putin head on, but because he's been holding rallies-- many of them-- without official permits, which has had its consequences: one arrest after another. >> navalny: during my campaign, i spent every fifth day in the jail. so now i'm kind of, you know, used to it. it's became a routine of my life. >> stahl: you got out of prison just a couple of days ago. >> navalny: right. >> stahl: you held a rally right away. you're goading them. you're begging them to arrest you again. >> navalny: these are people who are trying to steal my country. and i'm strongly disagree with it. i'm not going to be-- you know, a kind of speechless person right now. i'm not going to keep silent. >> stahl: you're not allowed to run. >> navalny: i'm not allowed to run. and they put enormous pressure on our headquarters and on our volunteers.
my chief of campaign get out of jail just yesterday. so all these facts show us that he's really afraid. not of me, but this-- people who are standing behind me. we have now 170,000 volunteers. >> stahl: mr. putin remains highly popular. it's all but a foregone conclusion that he'll be re-elected. and yet, the kremlin is doing everything it can to make it difficult for navalny to gain traction. for instance, the government says he can't be on the ballot because he was found guilty of embezzlement, in what navalny insists was a trumped-up charge. and he's barred from national television. but he's managed to get around that by reaching an ever- widening audience on social media channels and youtube, where he has millions of followers and says he's raised almost $4 million from ordinary russians. what do you think the biggest
issue is for most people here in russia? >> navalny: poverty. and inequality, huge in russia, even compared to the united states, the european country. no opportunities at all, no future for the people. putin is stealing their future. and mr. putin puts his relatives, his closest friends, his colleagues from the k.g.b.-- the chiefs of these companies. and that's why they're controlling the whole economy. >> stahl: navalny began his public life ten years ago in a shrewd way: he bought small shares of state-owned companies. as a shareholder, he was able to get his hands on internal financial documents, investigated evidence of misconduct, and posted it all on a blog. did these documents that you got prove corruption? >> navalny: absolutely. i work as a whistle blower. and i'm not afraid to announce the names.
>> stahl: he says he found that the kremlin's inner circle was accumulating vast amounts of wealth and published pictures of multiple homes and yachts. he moved on to airing documentaries on youtube, with video of the officials' lavish lifestyle. how did you get the footage? >> navalny: we have our air force. we're just using drones. >> stahl: you sent drones up? >> navalny: yes. we do a lot of work with the drones because, for us, it's best way to show this way of life. when you publish this footage of the yachts, of these palaces, of this real estate, and you-- you can show documents-- look, this guy have a relatively modest salary but look at this house. >> stahl: his most watched documentary, with over 25 million views, focused on prime minister dmitry medvedev and his estates-- navalny says, all five of them.
the video enflamed so much outrage that, in march, tens of thousands of russians took to the streets. when navalny called for a second round of protests three months later, he was arrested before he even left his apartment building. but his supporters came out in droves all across the country and, like navalny, close to 1,700 were arrested. these were the first protests of this magnitude in russia in six years. back then, in 2011, roughly 60,000 went to the streets in a burst of anti-putin dissent. that's when navalny debuted in moscow as an opposition leader. >> navalny: as we were watching, in the united states, i think there was the impression that public opinion was going to force change here. it looked that way on television. but that is not what happened. >> navalny: mr. putin realized
that he's-- it's not affordable for his system to give people more democracy. that's why in the-- 2012 he completely change his strategy and start to arrest people, start-- to fabricate criminal cases. look, and-- the start of the 2011, i was a respectful lawyer. at the end of 2012, i was several times convict. >> stahl: but now he's seen as the last man standing, since most of the other opposition leaders either fled the country or were found dead under mysterious circumstances. why are you still alive? >> navalny: this is the favorite question of my wife. i don't know. maybe they missed the good timing for it when i was less famous? >> stahl: do you feel that your visibility, with so many people knowing who you are, that-- that's protecting you?
>> navalny: actually, i'm trying not to thinking about it a lot. because if you start to think what kind of risks i have, you cannot do anything. >> stahl: navalny's platform includes more spending on education and health, restoring a free press, and taxing the oligarchs. in the west, he's assumed to be a russian liberal, but there was a time when he marched with nationalists, some of them fascists-- something he's tried to downplay lately. you have attended nationalist, what we would call right-wing rallies, i believe, in support of ethnic purity-- russian ethnic purity. have you supported that? >> navalny: of course not. i was part of these rallies, because i support the freedom of rallies, because i support freedom for meetings. >> stahl: they're supporters of yours.
they're part of your following. >> navalny: a lot of them support me. and they recognize me as a leader. >> stahl: when he was growing up, he came from a committed communist family in a small town, south of moscow. what was your childhood like? >> navalny: i'm 41 years old. it means that actually i'm a guy from the soviet union. i was a young pioneer. i had my red tie. my father was military and i was very proud that my father is guarding mother russia from evil americans with their bombs and missiles. actually, my biggest memory that i'm as a child standing in line, standing in line maybe sometimes for hours, to just buy milk. >> stahl: he was close to his brother, oleg, seven years younger. so it was painful for him when, three years ago, the government-- to get him to stop his activism, he believes-- convicted him and oleg of embezzlement, a ruling the
european court of human rights called "arbitrary and unfair." to make matters worse, he got a suspended sentence, but oleg is still behind bars. >> navalny: he's still in prison. and he spent two years in the solitary confinement, which is actually, in russian condition, is torturing. >> stahl: do you think he's in jail to get you-- to get you to stop? >> navalny: yes, absolutely. >> stahl: but he hasn't stopped, even though he's been physically attacked. while campaigning in siberia, he was splashed in the face with green dye. >> navalny: it was painful. but i could-- >> stahl: it hurt? >> navalny: it hurt. >> stahl: but, he handled it with humor, saying he was shrek. his followers dyed their own faces green and posted photos to instagram and twitter in solidarity. then he was splashed again. >> navalny: the second time it was much more painful. >> stahl: there was acid, as i understand it.
>> navalny: my doctor in the hospital said, "well, alexei, you should be prepared that you will be blind for one eye." and so i even start to think about, kind of, you know, i will be such, kind of pirate with-- >> stahl: with a patch. >> navalny: with a patch. >> stahl: the kremlin did allow him to travel to spain for specialized surgery. but immediately after the treatment, he returned to moscow, and went right out campaigning again. but lately he's been concentrating on rural areas, holding rallies far from the big cities, in places like siberia and the urals. >> navalny: i'm travelling every weekend to spend friday, saturday, and sunday in the regions, to have these rallies. >> stahl: on our last day there, we went with him to the mid-sized, industrial city of ivanovo, four hours outside moscow-- starting with a train ride. mr. putin never ever mentions your name.
may criticize you, but never your name. what do you make of that? >> navalny: i have no idea why they don't. maybe it's a kind of something-- superstitious for them. like, you know, you cannot name the animal bear, because if you name it in the night, it will come and eat you or something like this. they have a lot of nicknames and euphemisms for me. like, "this gentleman," or "this guy," "this convict," and "this--" >> stahl: "this convict?" >> navalny: "this convict." but-- they are thinking about me. and believe me, they are afraid of me-- afraid of us. so it's-- that is much more important for us than mentioning my name. >> stahl: it was snowing and dark out when we got to a wooded lot on the edge of town, where a big crowd of mostly young russians was waiting. no one thinks he has much of a chance of beating putin in the election, but still, putin fears him, navalny says, because of his ability to draw crowds at rallies and into the streets.
he perseveres, knowing what he's doing is dangerous. his supporters have been roughed up by police and pro-kremlin activists who navalny calls "thugs." is it, in your mind, worth your life? because there is a big target on you, no question. >> navalny: i'm trying to not think about it. because, look, i think i'm ready to sacrifice everything for my job, and for the people who surrounding me. i'm not let them down. and i'm trying to not to reflects about it all the time. brought to you by ford. i'm james brown with the scores from the n.f.l. "today in new england" a pair of
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been called one of the greatest actors never to be nominated for an oscar. he's appeared in more than 150 films and tv shows: "mash," "klute," "ordinary people," "the hunger games," just to name a few. you may recognize his name. you've definitely seen his face. but you probably don't know much about donald sutherland, the man. at 82, he's still one of the hardest-working actors around. he's still agonizing over each character he plays, and still plagued by self-consciousness about how he looks. he's never forgotten what happened after his very first film audition more than 50 years ago, when the writer, director, and producer of the movie he tried out for called him on the phone.
>> donald sutherland: the writer said, "you did such a terrific job." and the producer said, "we thought you were really wonderful, and we all wanted to call you together, to explain to you why we weren't casting you." and he said, "no, no, no. i mean, we have to-- the reason why we're not casting you is because we've always thought of this fellow as a kind of-- a guy next door sort of guy. and to be absolutely truthful, we don't think you look like you ever lived next door to anybody." ( laughs ) no. but it's the story of my life, you know. >> cooper: that's the story of your life? >> sutherland: yeah. >> jane fonda: who is it? >> cooper: donald sutherland may not look like the guy next door... >> sutherland: i'm an investigator; i'd like to ask you some questions. >> cooper: ...but that hasn't stopped him from carving out one of the longest-lasting and most unconventional careers in the film business. he's played leading men. >> sutherland: i guess the whole of life's nothing but an accident, is it? what happens to you. >> cooper: and all manner of misfits. >> sutherland: ( yelling ). >> cooper: he's turned up in army field hospitals.
>> sutherland: scratch my nose, there. a little harder, please. >> cooper: english country estates. >> sutherland: i could not have parted with you, my lizzy, to anyone less worthy. >> cooper: and the toniest corners of upper manhattan. >> sutherland: money! this is the 75th year of the hunger games. >> cooper: he's had a particular soft spot for bad guys. >> sutherland: did your mother make these? >> cooper: and over the years, he's played a lot of them. >> sutherland: don't lie! you promised. >> cooper: a lot of the roles you take on though are not always sympathetic. >> sutherland: they're not sympathetic to you. but they're sympathetic to me. >> cooper: they are? >> sutherland: yeah. sometimes they don't feel very good about what they've done. >> cooper: even if it's a pyromaniac in "backdraft?" ( laughs ) your eyes light up like a pyromaniac, right now. >> sutherland: i'm sorry, but i mean, he was so excited, you know? got the whole place going like hell.
my hair was on fire, my hands. everything. i was dead. >> cooper: to prepare for these roles, he spends months immersing himself in the script, poring over the parts as he conjures the characters to life. you try to find something in the role, that-- >> sutherland: i don't find it. it finds me. i mean, i will read it, and suddenly, it starts churning around inside me. and then, it gets violent. and then, it gets loving. and the-- the-- the-- it's-- it's an extraordinary thing. it gets more and more and more exciting. it's delicious. it's-- ( laughs ) but, it is. it is. >> cooper: when we first met sutherland, he was shooting a scene in italy for an upcoming fx series called "trust" about oil magnate j. paul getty. when he's filming, sutherland says he needs, more than anything else, an intimate, creative relationship with his director. he describes his experience working with the legendary italian director federico fellini as a love affair. >> cooper: why do you see it in
romantic terms? >> sutherland: because it is. >> cooper: there's that intimacy? >> sutherland: yeah. and sometimes it's rejected. and sometimes it's accepted and embraced. >> cooper: and when the film is done, the affair is over? >> sutherland: it's gone. >> cooper: do you have a cigarette after? >> sutherland: ( laughs ) no, but you have regret. >> cooper: if there's a slight sadness about sutherland, it may be because his childhood in canada wasn't easy. he survived polio as a toddler and spent all of fourth grade at home with rheumatic fever. he was an awkward kid. tall, with big ears. at school they called him dumbo. when he was 16, he had a question for his mother. >> sutherland: and i went to her and i said, "mother, am i good looking?" and my mother looked at me and went... "your face has character, donald."
and i went and hid in my room for at least a day. >> cooper: did what she say stayed with you? >> sutherland: not really. just-- just for-- 65, 66 years. ( laughter ) it's not easy, anderson. it's not easy-- to know that you're an-- an ugly man, in the business like i'm in. >> cooper: do you think of yourself as an ugly man? >> sutherland: unattractive is a gentler way of putting it. >> cooper: his insecurities didn't stop him from acting in plays in college. in the early 1960s, he started picking up work in television and b-movies, like "castle of the living dead." you'd be forgiven if you've never heard of it. that's sutherland playing the part of a soldier and a witch in the same scene. >> sutherland: you all right? >> cooper: the early years were a struggle. sutherland had twins, including
his son kiefer, then three more children with his wife of 45 years, the actress francine racette. his big break came in the "dirty dozen," and it happened entirely by chance. sutherland only had a bit part, until one of the lead actors told the film's director, bob aldrich, he didn't want to appear in this scene. >> sutherland: and bob aldrich looked at him, like that. then, he went, "you with the big ears, you do it." ( laughs ) i don't think he knew my name. but i, you know, it changed my life. where are you from, son? >> soldier: madison city, missouri, sir! >> sutherland: never heard of it. >> cooper: hollywood producers saw star power in that brief role. he was offered a lead in "mash," then played a hippy tank commander in "kelly's heroes," earning a place in hollywood as
an oddball icon of the early '70s counterculture. >> sutherland: there you go, more negative waves. have a little faith, baby! >> cooper: as his career took off, something happened that sutherland still doesn't quite believe. the guy who grew up thinking he was ugly, became a sex symbol. >> sutherland: now tell me about frank ligourin. >> cooper: in 1971, he played the enigmatic private detective in the hit "klute," alongside his then-girlfriend, jane fonda. >> sutherland: would you mind not doing that, please? >> cooper: fonda won an oscar for her performance. sutherland wasn't nominated. we were surprised to learn, sutherland's never watched "klute" all the way through, and he says he rarely sees any of the movies he stars in. his main interest, he says, is his performance. how the film ends up being put together is out of his hands. one of the nice things about the job i'm doing is-- i have a fair amount of control over the finished product. >> sutherland: you do? >> cooper: yeah, and that's not something, as an actor, you have much control over.
>> sutherland: excuse me. you used the wrong word. you used the word "much." the operative word is "any." >> cooper: you have no control over it? >> sutherland: none. none, except in performance. >> cooper: that may be a polite way of saying, if the film is a clunker, don't blame sutherland. one critic about a television show you were in said, "the question is not just what a class actor like sutherland is doing in trash like this, but whether sutherland is actually in a different show entirely." >> sutherland: what was the show? >> cooper: "dirty, sexy money." >> sutherland: oh, excuse me. that's not trash. that was a really, really good show. oh, i'm offended. it's such an extravagant accusation to make. >> cooper: is that something you ended up watching? >> sutherland: huh? >> cooper: did you watch it? >> sutherland: ah, no. ( laughs ) but-- but-- >> cooper: what do you mean, you didn't-- you didn't see it? >> sutherland: no. >> cooper: so how do you know it was good? >> sutherland: because i was in it. i don't mean it was good because i was in it.
i mean, i-- because-- because doing it, you knew it was good. and you knew from the response of people on the street. >> cooper: we were speaking with sutherland at his lakeside estate in southern quebec, where he steals time between film shoots. in an old pumphouse by the water... >> sutherland: i had vertigo, and i'm climbing that goddamn thing. >> cooper: ...we set up a makeshift screening room to watch some of his most iconic performances. it quickly became clear to us that, decades after he's finished a film, the character he's created stays with him. in this scene from the 1973 thriller "don't look now," his character discovers his daughter's body in a pond. >> sutherland: oh, this is going to be a hard day for me. >> cooper: so even now, the character comes back to you. the character's still there? >> sutherland: yeah. yeah. it's interesting, i-- i never thought of that. they must all have their little
niche somewhere in my-- in my person or in my soul or something, yeah. yeah. >> cooper: sutherland insists he's never given much thought to the trajectory of his own career, or viewed it as a climb to stardom. >> cooper: a lot of actors, they want to take on roles where they're-- >> sutherland: because they're vertically organized. >> cooper: what does that mean? >> sutherland: it's actors who say, "okay, i've done this." is a correct character to play to do this, to do this, to do this. >> cooper: to kind of a career ladder. >> sutherland: yeah. >> cooper: i've done a dramatic role. now, i'm going to do a comedic role, this or a romantic lead. >> sutherland: yeah. and mine is, like, a great, big wooden platter of fruits and pasta and chicken salad and a soup and-- a banana, you know. it's a whole bunch of different things. you might not like everything on the thing, but you can go and grab something and peel it and eat it and like it. >> cooper: that may explain in part why sutherland has never gotten an oscar nomination. that, and his style of acting, which is subtle and restrained, never showy.
the 1980 film "ordinary people," won best picture, best director and an oscar for the screenplay. >> sutherland: because i don't know if i love you anymore. and i don't know what i'm going to do without that. >> mary tyler moore: come on, give me the camera. >> timothy hutton: dad, give her the camera. >> sutherland: i want a really good picture of the two of you, okay? >> cooper: mary tyler moore was nominated for an oscar for her role in "ordinary people." >> sutherland: not until i get a picture. >> cooper: timothy hutton won one. >> hutton: give her the goddamn camera! >> cooper: sutherland was ignored. now, at a stage in life when peers half his age are slowing down, sutherland seems to be speeding up. after shooting one week in italy, we met him again on a soundstage in los angeles where he was filming scenes for an upcoming science fiction movie. next month, he has a new film coming out, "the leisure seeker"... >> sutherland: let me make you a cup of coffee. >> cooper: ...in which he plays an aging professor alongside helen mirren, who embarks on a
road trip as he grapples with old age and dementia. >> helen mirren: john, what's happening? >> sutherland: where are we? he may be the nicest man i've ever played. who was losing his mind. and totally and utterly in love with his wife. >> cooper: it's very bittersweet about, things slipping away, about love and aging and-- did-- did it resonate? >> sutherland: what do you think, anderson? ( laughs ) just look at me. sure, you know, all of it. every bit of it. are we there yet? >> mirren: almost. >> cooper: we won't know until january if donald sutherland will get an oscar nomination for "the leisure seeker," but last month, he finally got that little golden statue which has eluded him so long. a lifetime achievement award, presented to him by his "hunger games" co-star jennifer lawrence in a special ceremony in hollywood.
his family, almost all of whom are in the film business, was there to cheer him on. >> sutherland: i finally found peace in the words of the great benjamin kubelsky, who is also known as jack benny, when he said, as i say to you now: "i don't deserve this, but i have arthritis and i don't deserve that either." ( laughter ) thank you. >> donald southerland said he viewed this interview with an utter sense of failure. >> i don't view this as a failure. i view me as a failure in it. >> go to 60minutesovertime.com, sponsored by prevnar 13. you may be at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumoniacc1: that can take you out of the game for weeks, even if you're healthy.
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>> stahl: 50 seasons of "60 minutes." this week, a look back at the second sunday of december, 1986. that's when mike wallace first interviewed oprah winfrey. her local chicago talk show was about to expand into national syndication. mike was skeptical, but oprah was confident. >> oprah winfrey: it-- it's going to do-- it'll do well. >> wallace: and if it doesn't? >> winfrey: and if it doesn't, i will still do well. i will do well because i am not defined by a show, you know. i think we are defined by the way we treat ourselves, and the way we treat other people. in-- it would be wonderful to be, you know, acclaimed as this,
you know, talk show host who's made it. that would be wonderful. but if that doesn't happen, there are, you know, other important things in my life. >> stahl: 31 years, and many successes later, she joined us on this broadcast as a correspondent. i'm lesley stahl. we'll be back next week with another edition of "60 minutes." and tomorrow, on "cbs this morning," norah o'donnell investigates allegations of sexual assault at the air force academy. a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.
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