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tv   Face the Nation  CBS  November 17, 2019 8:30am-9:00am PST

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captioning sponsored by cbs th e nation". today exclusive interviews with two of the lead players in the impeachment inquiry, house speaker nancyi and republican jim jordan, a top defender of president trump. >> the president is spending a quiet weekend at the white house following a critical week of testimony in the house impeachment inquiry. he is in fighting spirits. >> the absolutely crazed lunatics, the democrats radical left and their media partners standing right back there. they are pushing the deranged impeachment witch-hunt. >> this time three long time diplomats testified about
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unprecedented answers by a president of the united states, ambassador marie yovanovitch was recalled from her post to the ukraine without explanation in may when she read that president trump had referred to her as bad news and said she was going to go through some things in his july phone call summary with the ukrainian president. >> i was shocked, absolutely shocked and devastated frankly, it sounded like a threat. >> do you feel threatened? >> i do. >> then as the ambassador testified the president attacked her by tweet. >> chairman adam schiff read it to her minutes later. >> everywhere marie yovanovitch went turned bad. >> i think the effect is to be intimidated. >> want to let you know ambassador some of us here take witness intimidation very seriously. >> diplomat bill taylor also revealed that a staffer overheard a telephone conversation in a ukraine restaurant between president trump and his eu ambassador
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gordon sondland. >> member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations,. >> sondland told president trump the ukrainians were ready to move forward. >> i don't recall doing that at all. not even a little bit. >> late friday the taylor staffer david holmes provided a firsthand account. he and two others heard the conversation because the president's voice was so loud sondland had to hold the phone away from his ear. where does the investigation stand? question will ask the speaker and two intelligence committee members, congressman jim jordan and mike quigley and preview next week's testimony where witnesses will include ambassador sondland, plus our cbs news battleground tracker shows big momentum for one candidate in the key states of iowa and new hampshire. all that plus analysis on the news of the week is just ahead on "face the nation".
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.. good morning. and welcome to "face the nation". we begin with house speaker nancy pelosi. we spoke with her just after the conclusion of public impeachment hearings friday. our conversation started with president trump's real-time tweet about ambassador marie yovanovitch. why do you think he was tweeting about her? >> well, he made a mistake. and he knows her strength and he was trying to undermine it. of course the president appoints ambassadors but people don't insult people especially when they are giving testimony before the congress of the united states. i think even his most ardent supporters have to honestly admit this was the wrong thing for the president to do. >> the white house said it was just his opinion. he wasn't trying to intimidate. what do you think? >> the president and perhaps some at the white house what they have to know is the words of the president weigh a ton,
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they are very significant and he should not frivolously throw out insults. but that's what he does. i think part of it is his own insecurity as an imposter. i think he knows full well, that he is in that office way over his head and so he has to diminish every else. >> brennan: do you think that was witness intimidation in your book? >> i haven't had a lot of time to pay attention to the president's tweets and the legal implications of them. i just think it was totally wrong and inappropriate and typical of the president. >> brennan: when you tweeted tad you said ambassador marie yovanovitch was viciously smeared from trump allies removed from her post and threatened by the president. what part of that sounds to you impeachable offense or a crime? >> well there are many things the president does that are completely out of the question that are not impeachable and they are about the election but
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when it comes to violating the constitution of the united states as he undermines our national security, jeopardizes the integrity of our elections and dishonors his own oath of office, that's about impeachment. >> brennan: so the constitution defines an impeachable offense as treason, bribery or high crimes and misdemeanors. >> right. >> brennan: what do you think applies to this case? >> we are unfolding the facts. that's what an inquiry is about. >> brennan: do you used the term bribery. >> yes. i was translating from what 10, that was in the context of e pluribus unum, so i said -- quid pro quo, bribery, that's what that is. >> brennan: so -- but do you expect that to be one of the -- >> i have no idea. there is not even a decision made to impeach the president. this is a finding of fact, unfolding of the truth and then decision will be made and that is a decision that goes beyond
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me. >> brennan: well, you point out factually, right, the vote has not taken place. do you proceed with impeachment but do you think you will go through all of this? and not vote to impeach the president? >> that remains the facts that the president has information that demonstrates his innocence in all of this, which we haven't seen, his transcript of a phone call is tough to weigh in a high -- highly sensitive compartmentalized department serve sore we can't see that. he has information that is exculpatory that means x, take away, culpa, blame, then we look forward to seeing it. >> brennan: you think democrats have had a good week? >> well i think the american people have had a good week. i think truth has had a good week. i think patriotism has had a good week and i think the constitution has had a good week. i don't think the president has had a good week. >> brennan: well, republicans argue here -- if we could just
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talk about what we are going to do. >> i really have a real discomfort level of responding to what republicans say, because they are in denial about what is happening in the countrsof wantt where we are going on this i am happy to respond to that, but i find it a waste of my time and yours to just be talking about what republicans say. >> brennan: well, i want to just let you respond, though, to the argument that is being made in messaging by republicans here -- >> let their arguments stand because they are on such quicksand i don't even want to give it anymore visibility by my dignifying any of their misrepresentations of what they say, and i say that out of great respect for you because i respect you as a great journalist and i am on in order to have this interview with you, but i am not here to talk about what they say because they are not facing the reality of what is happening to our country, and this is about our democracy that
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is at risk with this president in the white house. >> brennan: so chairman schiff has said he learned of the whistleblower complaint september 9, the aid was released days later, the military aid that is in question here, do you see a connection here? >> of course. the president wasn't going to -- the republicans like to say if you want to talk about them, oh it doesn't matter, the aid was released, no the whistle was blown, the whistle was blown and that was blown long before we heard about it. don't forget that inbetween all of that came the inspector general and the inspector general appointed by president trump .. and the inspector general said that this was of urgent concern and so that is what intervened. >> brennan: can you help walk the american people through what happens next? we have another week of hearings. >> yes. >> brennan: there will be an intelligence report written up, and then what?
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>> does the president get, as he says, to confront his accuser or get due process? >> confront the whistleblower? >> brennan: presumably. >> well, i will make sure he does not intimidate the whistleblower, so the president could come right before the committee and speak all the truth he wants. >> brennan: you don't expect -- >> if he wants to take the oath or office or do i think in writing. he has every opportunity to present his case, but it is really a sad thing. i mean, what the president did was so much worse than even what richard nixon did that at some point richard nixon cared about the country must have to recognize that this could not continue, the intelligence committee is leading this part of the inquiry, there are other depositions that are being taken by more committees, so some of the depositions will continue and then what takes place in the
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intelligence public will continue for another week. i don't know how much longer, i guess it depends on how many more witnesses they have. that's up to the committee o i don't drive that. that's up to the committee. >> brennan: do you expect that to be wrapped up before the end of the year? >> i have no idea. again, i don't have -- >> brennan: no timetable for that? >> no. i mean, it is self ever evident that we have open hearings for the next week. i don't know of any beyond that, then we are out for thanksgiving, it doesn't mean depositions couldn't be taken during that time, and then when we come back. >back. >> by then maybe a decision or maybe they have more hearings and then i have six committees who have been working on all of this and those six chairmen have been very involved in what -- how we will proceed. >> brennan: does that mean that will be potentially included in an impeachment that you might broaden this beyond the issue related to the ukraine. >> >> well, that is not up to me,
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that is what the facts will determine. we are also proceeding in the courts and this week we have another powerful decision by a court now as the president is appealing it to the supreme court that the president should release his financial documents. we have won all of the cases on the court in this. the roger stone, seven counts was it he was found guilty, manafort is in prison, michael cohen the president's lawyer is in prison. there is so much wrongdoing attached with all of this but we have to keep it very precise in terms of the president of the united states and the constitution of the united states and that is what this is about and it is very serious and none of us came here to impeach a president. this is very sad. at the same time, as i say, we are trying to pass a trade bill,
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pass our appropriations bills, voting rights act, whether it is background checks, climate action now, it will pay for equal work, raising the minimum wage, all of the issues that we are working on for the good of the american people. so this -- while this is a concentration of our conversation here, it is not what we do on a day. >> brennan: you met with the treasury secretary this week. he said the white house has no intention of allowing another government shutdown. >> agreed. we are all in agreement. >> brennan: are you confident you can avoid one? >> well, let us hope, left to their own devices, the appropriate tors can avoid that. >> brennan: does that mean democrats will provide funding for the border wall? >> no. no. we have well over a trillion-dollar worth of decisions to make. i don't know why we would go to that. the president hasn't built any new wall in the whole term of
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office. i think that his 0 comments about the wall are really an applause line in a rally, but there is not anything that he is serious about. >> brennan: when will the free trade deal known as usmca come up for a vote? >> when we have assurances that worker protections are provided. it is all about enforcement. >> brennan: you said imminent recently. >> well, imminent, we are a long way from where we started, but i don't have a date when it will come up because it cannot be any sooner than the trade representative agrees to be a proper enforcement so their workers really do get a better deal than they have in nafta. >> brennan: what is it like 4 you to go toe to toe with president trump? >> sad, as i say none of us come here to impeach a president and when a spree elected we wish that president success and hope that we can work together and find common ground and i thought maybe we could on infrastructure
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and i am still hopeful. i thought we could on reducing the cost of prescription drugs and i am still hopeful. i had hoped that he would want it to be a vote to find some common ground. it is not a real estate who believes in governance. i worked with president bush before and we did many things, passed the biggest energy bill in the history of the 0 country, fairness in terms of the tax code for poor people and we did many things together. >> brennan: do you think it is different now, though, because you are so often the only woman in this room? i kind of go to a view, after the recent clash at the white house with you standing up. >> i was largely the only woman in the room when president bush was president as well but president bush believed in governance so you could find common ground, but if you don't governance then there is hardly anyway to negotiate a solution. this is a very strange
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situation. 24th of september is when ior a. the inquiry was going on but to proceed with the inquiry and that kind of changed our communication until that day in the room when i said all roads with you, mr. president, lead to putin whether giving them a stronger foothold with what you did with turkey and syria or what you did of withholding aid to military assistance, bona fide to congress to ukraine to the benefit of putin, 11,000, more like 13,000 by now ukrainians have died at the hands of the russians, and needed that military aid and with his disparaging remarks about nato and questioning our commitment to nato, that is to putin's advantage. so we do have, shall we say, a candid relationship.
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>> brennan: ms. speaker, thank you very much. >> my pleasure. nn er saker pelosi website and an additional segment will be airing later today in the digital network cbsn, when we come back rep jim jordan he is leading the charge defending the president in the impeachment hearings. stay with us. >> this is a story about... doin' more... ...with less. doers need energy. and demand for it so con's finding more homegrown energy, more precisely.
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gate. >> that's real important. >> brennan: as you heard from the speak never that interview, she argue it is aid to ukraine was only released because of the whistleblower. what reason were you given that the aid to ukraine was eventually released? >> because the president zelensky met with five-time with 0 uh u.s. officials and four face to face meetings with u.s. senators, ambassadors, with vice president pence, and each of those meetings never was it talked about linking the 0 security assistance dollars to any type of investigations but what did happen in those meetings is they all became convinced zelensky is is real deal, remember we are talking about ukraine one of the three most crypt countries in the planet and the hard earned dollars of the american people so they became convinced this media star, this new guy in poli overwhelming majority in their parliament was the real deal and legit and worth the risk. >> brennan: so that september 9th complaint, and then the september 11th release of the aid you are saying that is just, the calendar fell --
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>> yes and the aid dtave e released until september 30th and released on the 11th and most important, the ukrainians did nothing, as far as investigations go, to get the aid release sod there was never mocrats all promise existed before president trump released the phone call. >> brennan: i want to get to some new testimony an american diplomat named david holmes testified behind closed doors on friday, and i want to know, do you think because he now has firsthand knowledge in which he explains he overheard a conversation between the president of the united states and gordon sondland, isn't he credible? this was firsthand? >> well, i mean, look, he overheard a conversation. >> brennan: specific mention of the bidens and investigation -- >> -- story, we will see, because there were four people at the table. >> brennan: are they coming to testify those other two. >> adam schiff controls the witness list we gave our listsed
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give our list last saturday one of the problems and unfairness of this process. i am sure mr. holmes will be called by the democrats and have the ambassador to the eu a an ay to the president and donor to the president's campaign but he changed his testimony already. do you think he is credible? >> his addendum to his testimony, never forget he said i presumed this happened, so again, this is -- he will be in front of us this week as well, as will mr. morris and mr. vin man and ms. williams and have is a host of witnesses .. again we will see how his testimony plays out and he said there was never any quid pro quo in the text message responding to others on that text chain so we will have him and find out. >> brennan: the text change you are right but in this conversation david holmes testified about he says he heard the president ask so he is going to do the investigation? and sondland replied he is going to do it. holmes then said he spoke to sondland who told him trump was
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interested in theigation that mi -- >> interesting you talk about all of these details from a deposition that hasn't been released, that friday night we are not supposed to tal this is again an example of the unfair process. >> brennan: you quantity him to testify under oath -- >> i assume adam schiff will call him and remember, based on what mr. taylor told us in the open hearing earlier this week, as their first witness he said that this happened with a conversation that he wasn't a part of with mr. host 0 and she listening in on a conversation between ambassador sondland and the president of the united states so we will have questions for him and see how it stands out. >> brennan: do you think gordon sondland was acting on his own? he says he talks to the president all the time. >> he is a senate confirmed ambassador to the european union, mr. volker is 0 special envoy, serving our diplomatic corps and senator perry working, this whole irregular channel,eyd individuals respected individuals, accomplished individuals working on the diplomatic mission and somehow
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that is crazy. i just don't follow. here is the. >> brennan: but do you think the project that gordon sondland was working on here when he said the biden investigation that mr. giuliani was pushing, was that with the president's okay? >> you have to understand we haven't heard from kurt volker yet, the first witness the democrats call, volker said anything that was done here, no quid pro quo of any kind and all in a way consistent with the way making sure the aid gets to the ukraine and that things are done in the best interests of the united states, done in the best interests of the ukraine and that's all -- that all happened and ambassador volker's testimony i think will be particularly good and particularly powerful when we get to hear from him later this week. >> brennan: specifically volker said he didn't know there was a quid pro quo. >> right. >> brennan: none was communicated to him, not that there was definitely no quid pro quo, just not that he was aware of it. >it. >> no one testified there has been quid pro quo, this is all third, fourth, fifth hand information. ms. williams didn't think
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anything improper. >> brennan: she said inappropriate. >> but that is -- those are the facts. four facts will never change, that's the funny thing about facts they don't change, the fact we have the transcript and no linkage of any type of a security assistance dollars for an investigation in the call, two guys on the call, the zelensky said no pressure and no linkage, the ukrainians didn't know the aid was held at the time of the call and most importantly they didn't do anything -- >> brennan: i understand you say the aid was released. but to put a fine point on it, are you comfortable with the investigation that was requested? >> the investigation that was requested, look. >> brennan: the president spoke to gordon sondland about this request to have the bide dense investigated. >> i thought we were supposed to be looking into potential impact on the 2016 election and, and foreign countries involvement in the 2016 election. i am comfortable. >.>> brennan: with with the 2020 election are you comfortable. >> there was never an investigation undertaken hand
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never an -- >> brennan: the request for one that was testify to and -- >> it never happened there is all kind of talk about things and it didn't happen. when this all broke. >> brennan: and the attempt doesn't bother you. >> what do the democrats tell you, there was a quid pro quo, the scary things the democrats have been out to get the president. i was struck listening to speaker pelosi's comments, her second question she used the word imposter talking about the president of the united states. who is 63 million people voted for who won an electoral college landslide and yet these democrats have been trying to get him from the start of thiscs to impeach him before any evidence, five members, think about this, five members of the democrat, five democrat members on the intelligence committee have voted to move forward with impeachment even before the whistleblower complaint was filed. >> brennan: i have to go do a commercial break, thank you verl much, congressman, we will be back in a moment. >> and side effects. so job can stay strong for his family. cancer treatment centers of america.
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