tv Face the Nation CBS June 19, 2022 8:30am-9:30am PDT
♪ i'd save every day like captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: i'm margaret brennan in washington, and this week on "face the nation," inflation rises and so does the risk of recession. plus more evidence from january 6 shows that former president trump and his allies knew their plot to overturn the election was illegal. the lawmakers investigating the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol and witnesses to that day warned that former president trump and his allies posed a clear and present danger to american democracy. >> former president trump and other political allies appeared prepared to seize the presidency in 2024. >> brennan: last week's hearings revealed shocking new details about how close we came
to a potential act of horrific violence. >> approximately 40 feet, that's all there was. 40 feet between the vice president >> brennan: we learned more about the extraordinary pressure the former president exerted on his vice president to overturn the 2020 election, despite top aides telling him that the scheme was unconstitutional and his claims of voter fraud were bogus. >> these become attacks on reality. >> brennan: we'll talk with zoe lofgren. plus the federal reserve signaled it will hike interest rates at the most rapid pace in decades to fight inflation that is running at a 40-year high. >> biden: i'm using ever lever available to me to bring down prices for the american people. >> brennan: but is the president powerless? we'll hear from brian deese and
the president of the federal reserve bank of cleveland, loretta mester. and then...vaccinations for the youngest americans are set to begin this week. we'll ask former f.d.a. commissioner d dr. scott gottlib about the rollout. and as americans observe juneteenth, we'll hear from author and historian ibram x. kendi. it is all just ahead on "face the nation." ♪♪ >> brennan: good morning. and welcome to "face the nation." we have a lot to get to today, including some long-awaited covid news finalized just yesterday. nearly 20 million children will finally have access to coronavirus vaccines after the c.d.c. approved emergency use in infants, toddlers, and pre-schoolers. relief for parents, but there is more economic anxiety.
fears of a recession are piling on top of struggles with inflation. the federal reserve hiked interest rates by three-quarters of a percentage point in the single largest increase in nearly three decades. but we begin with the crisis in our american democracy. the investigation into the january 6 attack and the elaborate scheming that led up to it. lawmakers and witnesses are warning that the threat is not over. for more on what we learned and what is next in the hearings, here is cbs news congressional correspondent scott mcfarland. >> in an unprecedented pressure campaign against a sitting vice president ended with mike pence in an underground loading loadik bee mean the capitol. at one point, in insurgents were just 40 feet away. >> a confidential person said the proud boys would have killed
mike pence if given the chance. >> the vice president did not want to take any chance that the world would see the vice president of the united states fleeing the united states capitol. >> reporter: earlier that day, the president personally pressured pence one last time before the electoral vote. witnesses say he called pence a whimp. in a speech on friday, the president denied it. >> i never called mike pence a whimp. i said, what is he, a robot? he is a human conveyor belt. >> reporter: the committee argued the already violent mob was egged on further by trump's mid-afternoon tweet that pence lacked courage. >> if he caves, we're going to drag the (bleep) through the streets. [yelling] >> reporter: a series of white house layers and aides described
an elaborate weeks long effort to strong-arm pence into executing scheme to reject some of the electoral votes and steal the election. they both knew the plan was bogus and unlawful. >> i said, are you out of your f-ing mind? you're going to cause riots in the streets. >> reporter: the committee has two hearings planned for the week ahead, including one in which they're expected to argue that donald trump tried to interfere with local election officials, including in georgia. and the committee also has a team investigating the role played by far-right groups, including their efforts to plot and plan ahead of the attack. margaret? >> brennan: scott, thank you. we want to go to congresswoman zoe lofgren of california. good morning to you. you are one of the investigators on this select committee. and i think one of the most powerful moment was when the
retired conservative judge, judge ludig, said he sees a clear and present danger today. he said there could be further attempts to subvert american democracy in 2024. what exactly is the threat you see? >> well, i think judge ludig said it v very well, and, by the way, he is a very conservative man, once considered by republicans for the supreme court. i think his concern, and i share it, is that the former president is continuing on his campaign to undercut confidence in the election system. they are installing a loyalist who say that the election was stolen in states. and they're going to count the votes. they clearly tried to get the vice president to throw the actual votes out and replace electors with a losing candidate. and it looks like that is in the works for the next election as
well. it is a grave concern. >> brennan: so to be sleer, cle, there are about a hundred candidates are who repeating they are election deniers, some of what president trump still claims. at least five of them have won their primaries. have you found any direct links between any of theory candidates and the grift that you have been tracking? >> we're going to release additional information. i've got the staff working on it right now. obviously, the hearings are a couple of hours each, and you can't lay out all of the information that has been compiled. so i know there has been substantial interest in the big ripoff, and we will provide additional information to the public and soon. >> brennan: you're saying establishing direct links between those individuals standing for election into office now and the scheme your laying out?
>> not necessarily. we will lay out what we have and people can look at it. i don't want to just pop off irresponsibly here. >> brennan: you're colleague on the committee, adam kinzinger, said on another network this morning that he just received a death threat against him, his wife, and his five-month-old child for the work he is doing. he said there is violence in the future. do you agree that you have a fear of political violence, and have you received threats? >> i don't want to go into the threats i've received. i think it just encourages more of them. but it is very concerning that adam and his wife and his little baby were threatened. i saw the threat. it was a written threat. we saw that republican congressman, a veey conservative representative, crenshaw, was roughed up over the weekend at a republican meeting because he was not conservative enough. and i think that's what the former president has unleashed
here. you know, when he sent out the tweet attacking his vice president, he already knew that the violence was under way. the only conclusion you can reach is that he intended to accelerate that violence against the former vice president. so we're in a very rough time in america right now. and we, all of us, elected officials and also just americans and their neighbors, need to stand up for the rule of law and against political violence. it is not what america is about. >> brennan: well, for the busy american people who may not have been watching the hearings as closely as we were, exactly what is the end game here? are you laying out a roadmap for the department of justice to ultimately try to prosecute the former president? >> we are doing what we were asked to do when the committee was formed, which is to find the truth, lay it out, and we will also be making legislative
recommendations. for example, the electoral count act was violated. dr. eastman admitted as much. but we think we can tighten that up so it is less susceptible to abuse.t we're working on -- especially liz cheney and i are working on that. the department of justice has to make its own decision. we are laying out facts, they can see it, but i'm sure they have access to other information because they have grand jury meetings with various defendants. we are going to be helpful to them in terms of specific information that they wish from our own investigation. but they've got to -- it is not the role of congress to decide who gets prosecuted. >> brennan: well, a number of your fellow committee members have criticized attorney general garland for not moving faster. so they do want to see some kind of action here. and there was a letter from the justice department asking for transcripts and saying that your
committee's failure to immediately hand them over was complicating their investigation. exactly what is going on here? >> well, that was kind of -- we were surprised by that, frankly. and we will engage. we're not going to be an obstacle to the department of justice's prosecution of individuals. we're in the middle of putting these hearings together. the staff is working incredibly hard, along with the members of congress. we will get, you know, particular information that they need over to them in an orderly way. certainly by the beginning of next month. >> brennan: by the beginning of next month. in the next week you have a number of republican officials from state and local governments coming, including arizona house speaker rusty bowers, who said he had been pressured by the former president's attorney, rudy giuliani, and by the former president himself, to retroactively change arizona row, to choose a different slate
of presidential electors. and he said he received e-mails from jenny thomas to reverse trump's loss. she is the wife of clarence thomas. will you ask barris about that link to thomas? >> i'm not going to step on the committee's lines for the hearing, but, obviously, as you know, we have invited jenny thomas to come in and visit the committee and answer our questions. and we've received, actually, additional information when we got evidence from the eastman e-mails that have now been ordered released by judge carter in california. so we have questions for her. and we may have questions for him as well. >> brennan: will jenny thomas appear? do you, indeed you need to subp? will her husband appear? >> we have asked her to appear. it was a private letter, and she
decided to disclose it, which is her right to do. she said publicly she looks forward to coming in and talking to us, and we look forward to talking to her. >> brennan: congresswoman, thank you for your time and we will be watching. "face the nation" will be back in a minute. stay with us. . carl, say hi to nina, our schwab financial consultant. hm... i know how difficult these calls can be. not with schwab. nina made it easier to set up our financial plan. we can check in on it anytime. it changes when our goals change. planning can't be that easy. actually, it can be, carl. look forward to planning with schwab. schwab! ♪♪
>> brennan: we go now to former f.d.a. commissioner and current pfizer board member, dr. scott gottlieb, who joins us from west port, connecticut, this morning. happy fat father's day! >> doctor: thank you. >> brennan: i have been asking you for years when my children will be able to get a vaccine. and now we know they're being shipped out. this is a pretty unique rollout for these youngest of americans. in fact, children under the age of three can't go to these mass vaccination sites that we've seen for older people. how complicated is this rolling this out to the youngest
americans going to be? >> doctor: more complicated than other age segments. i think it will a little more of a slow rollout, relative to the past rollout with the other age groups. there will be pharmacies that are vaccinating children. c.v.s. will be moving it into their pharmacies, but only with their mini clinics. maybe around children's hospitals maybe clinics will be stood up. it will take a little more time to get the vaccines into the local settings because it is more difficult to vaccinate asix >> derek
>> brennan: 10 million doses made available by the government. just short of four million were ordered. that indicates a low level of uptake. does that concern you? >> doctor: look, it has continued to concern me we haven't seen an uptick of children generally. it is lower than what the initial estimate are right now. there are surveys showing that 20% of parents plan to vaccinate children under the age of five. i expect it may be lower. as it declines going into the summer, a lot of parents may take a wait and see attitude. i think uptick will be pretty short. the 3.9 million doses that have been ordered is a reflection of that fact. i think over time we'll see more kids get vaccinated. this is a serious disease in children. more than 1,000 children have died, about 440 under the age of four. we have seen tens of thousands of hospitalizations in this age
segment. it isn't a benign illness. we're still seeing tens of thousands of hospitalizations every week in that pediatric age segment. covid is a much different disease in children who are immuno-- if you can gain some prior immuneization, and most people eventually over the course of their lifetime is going to get this infection, it is a much different disease once you have that base line immunity against this infection. >> brennan: i hear you saying it is not that your kid won't get sick if they get the vaccination, but they won't necessarily be hospitalized? >> doctor: they'll have t-cells and memory cells that can protect them in that setting. >> brennan: every part of this pandemic has become politicized in some way, and there was this back and forth between the white house and the state of florida. the governor there, ron
desantis, the state is actively dissuading children from being vaccinated. and there is this back and forth of not ordering vaccine supplies. he is claiming the trial data was abysmal. he is not a doctor, and you're a doctor, tell me what is your view here? >> doctor: look, these vaccines have gone through robust clinical studies. we have a lot of experience with this vaccines in children. it got an anonymous vote from a diverse level of advisors at the c.d.c.. i think people should feel confident in the safety and effectiveness. there are two questions on the table with the state of florida: are they right to actively dissuade taking vaccines, and did they impede physicians to get access to the vaccine. they could have taken a neutral
stance and said they are not recommending it, but instead they affirmatively opposed the vaccines. other countries who are not recommending the vaccines haven't actively opposed the vaccine and said kids shouldn't get vaccinated. with respect to the second question, i don't think they're impeding the ability of physicians to get the vaccine. they're just not facilitating that. they articulated this earlier in the year. the states that are really active taking possession of the vaccine from the c.d.c. and then redistributing it to physician within that state. so what other states did when they preordered vaccines. in the state of florida, they're not playing that role. they said you're going to have to direct order from the c.d.c., and because of that, no pre-orders were placed. so the state of florida was the only state that wasn'tably to wo get pre-orders in. the white house has taken the
steps to prioritize the orders that have come in from florida. they'll be getting vaccine this week. >> brennan: it is an emergency authorization. the private industry can't buy this directly. the government has to be involved, correct? >> doctor: that's right. so in the state of florida, physicians are going on to the florida state website and putting in orders. it is effectively through the state. the state is acting as a broker. but the state is not taking possession. what is happening in other states, they're taking possession of the vaccine and redistributing it. a lot of states have chosen to do that because they want to make sure there is equitable distribution, and they want to target certain parts of the state. in florida, they said, we don't think people should be getting this vaccine, and we're going to take no role in facilitating that access, so they're not blocking that access. >> brennan: dr. scott gottlieb, i always love having you on the problem. we'll be back with a lot more
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cbs news senior national correspondent mark strassmann has more on how we got here. >> reporter: if your paycheck feels smaller, it probably is. our economy is racing red-hot with widespread worry it is careening towards a cliff. >> we have the tools we need to restore price stability. >> reporter: but there is much the fed can't control, the multiple drivers behind the highest rate of inflation in 40 years. like russia's invasion of ukraine, now almost in its fourth month. its global impact on the prices of minerals and metals, food and fuel. russian troops have blockaded or stolen ukrainian wheat. and most conspicuously, the war's impact on gas prices. at roughly $5 a gallon, the
average price of u.s. gas is $2 higher than a year ago, with a cascading impact throughout our economy. take poultry prices, up almost 17% year to year. roughly double the rate of inflation. farmers need gas for equipment, even fertilizer. they're paying more, so you're paying more for chicken. another inflationary pressure: ongoing supply-chain issues, an outgrowth of the pandemic. demand dwarfs supply still. take china, makers of the world's cheap goods, the covid policies have shut down many of the manufacturing centers, including much of shanghai, the financial hub. u.s. car suppliers feel it. used cars are up 16%, new cars, up 14%. and inflation is also high because of a competitive job
market. with almost two available positions for every job-seeker. one way employers compete for scarce workers: raise wages. and yet despite everything costing more, americans keep spending right through the price increases. a combination of cabin fever and deep pockets. washington pumped up $6 trillion in stimulus, including putting checks in the hands of consumers, and as a country, we have money to burn. $2.3 trillion in excess savings. what isn't clear if inflation has peaked or if it will trigger a recession. then there is consumer confidence, something the fed can help shape if not control. can its policies and messaging help balance supply and demand given the widespread belief out there that with inflation things could get worse before they get
better? margaret? >> brennan: mark strassmann, thank you. coming up, we'll speak with two people who help shake economic policy, brian deese, as well as the federal reserve of cleveland's loretta mester. stay with us. to create an open hybrid cloud platform. now data is available anywhere, securely. and your digital transformation is helping find new ways to unlock energy around the world.
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♪♪ >> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." we're joined now by brian deese, the director of president biden's national economic council. good morning and welcome to the broadcast. >> thanks for having me. >> brennan: yes, the jobless rate is low, but wage growth not keeping pace with inflation. what do you say to americans who are thinking they might need a second job to pay their bills? >> well, it is an uncertain moment and we face real challenges, global challenges. 9% inflation in the u.k., over 8% in europe. but we also have real strengths here at home. and so what i would say is we need to navigate through this transition in a way that gets us
to stable growth without giving up all of the incredible economic gains that we've made. you mentioned the jobless rate at 3.6%. we've also seen household balance sheets strengthened over the course of this period. >> brennan: the congressional office predicts that high inflation will exist until 2024. and it will stay higher than the originally forecast 4.7%. when does it come down? how much time are you talking about? >> prices are unacceptably high right now. and that's why the president said we need to make this our top economic focuses and did everything we can to get them down. most independent forecasters, the blue championship and the federal reserve, see inflation beginning to moderate over the course of this year. the single most impactful thing we could do is to work with congress to pass legislation that would lower the costs of things that families are facing right now. like prescription drugs. we could lower the cost of prescription drugs by allowing
medicare to negotiate better prices. it would lower federal spending and the cost people would pay. >> brennan: the president said in a rare interview he has the votes to do it. when is the deal? >> lower prescription costs is one piece. lowering utility costs, and equally important, lower the federal deficit by enacting long overdue tax reform. if we can do that and move forward in the near future, it will not only help in lower prices, but it will send a signal to the markets and the global economy that the united states is deadly serious about tackling inflation. >> brennan: how are you actually putting forward this package? >> the package has been debated and worked through -- >> brennan: it failed back when it was build back better. if inflation isn't a number one priority, when are you scheduling a vote to do -- >> we're working with the congressional leadership on that. senator schumer is working with
his caucus to get a final package in place. we're hopeful we'll see progress in the coming weeks. >> brennan: do you think you can get it done before september? >> yes, on that and other priorities. there is a bill on semiconductors, the computer chips, the lack of affordable computer chips have driven up prices across the economy in things like automobiles. we are hopeful we could move that before the august recess as well. >> brennan: i know the president said recession is not it seems increasingly possible. eight out of 10 c.e.o.s expect the recession in the next of contraction? >> i think where we are in the economy right no is in a transition. i spoke with c.e.o.s from sectors across the economy this past week, and they're figuring
out how to navigate this transition -- >> brennan: they're planning around a recession? >> they're planning around tran sessions in our economy. people are buying less goods, spending time at home, and they're spending more on services. what i would say is that not only is a recession not inevitable, i believe a lot of people are underestimating those strengths in the resilience of the american economy. >> brennan: shouldn't you level with the american public and say we're in on chartered waters. even the fed chairman said he can't control the price on gasoline and the war in ukraine and covid. is the president powerless here? >> absolutely not. we faced unprecedented global circumstances, a global pandemic and a war in europe that is affecting the global economy. at the same time, we have a strategy that will maket of prip dy,er racit,e
demrats on board -- because you didn'th y ofs billontiis done. we have our heads down and we're going to try to get something done. >> brennan: i want to put up a chart of inflation for our audience to see, measured by the consumer price indexes. the tick up began before the war began. a number of economists said that the tremendous fiscal spending, the $6 trillion, and the $2 trillion that the biden administration pushed through in the spring of 2021. when people look at that and they say, well, the white house told us that inflation would be transitory. and they were could go through with this kind of spending and we would be fine. even when people in your own party warned it would be
detrimental. how do you win credibility with the public and say this time we're not wrong? >> you have to look around the world to see that the two principle drivers are the pandemic and putin. in the u.k., inflation has hit 9% -- >> brennan: but the point is those are the things you can't control. i'm talking about the things you can. so how do you win the credibility back? >> we win credibility by taking action. this president is acting. this president galvanized the global community to do historic release of oil from the strategic petroleum reserve, a million barrels a day. that action was single handedly responsible for keeping oil prices from going up even further. we're going to take action and make clear that tackling inflation is our top priority. >> brennan: one of the things you do have control of is the tariffs. secretary yellen told me that
she acknowledged that the trump tariffs do do add to inflation. the president said we're still in the process of making up my mind. if inflation is the number one priority, why are you dragging out this decision? >> i'm let the president's words speak for himself. i anticipate the president will have more to say on that issue in the coming weeks. to be very clear, over the course of the last couple of months, this is an issue about our supply chains and getting goods to the united states in a way that is affective and cheap, and the president has been incredibly focused on that. >> brennan: we'll continue to track it. thank you very much, brian deese, for coming in. >> thank you. >> brennan: and we'll be right back. a bank of america company.
think he's posting about all that ancient roman coinage? no, he's seizing the moment with merrill. moving his money into his investment account in real time and that's... how you collect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company. >> brennan: there are just 12 people who get to vote on whether to adjust interest rates and by how much. loretta mester is one of those people, and she joins us from philadelphia this morning. good morning to you. >> good morning, margaret. glad to be with you.
>> brennan: glad to have you back. you know, this sustained high inflation continues to surprise federal reserve officials, jerome powell said as much this week. he said there was this unusually large interest rate increase of 75 basis points. he expects another similar one in another few weeks. what would alter that plan for you? >> well, what we're looking at is trying to get our interest rates up to more normal levels so we can stem some of the oversized demand momentum in the economy and bring it back down so that we can release some of the inflationary pressures. we're going to be looking for the month to month changes inflation rates to get good evidence if we've seen inflation first stabilize and then begin to move back down. it is going to take a while to get inflation back down to 2%.
but what we're looking for is we can see some moderation in demand, which has been incredibly strong, bringing it back in alignment with the supply side, which was in constrain, and getting inflation moving back down and on a sustainable path back to 2%, which is our inflation goal. so that's what we're going to be looking at, what is going on in the monthly numbers. and, frankly, the may c.p.i. report basically was bad across the board in terms of we didn't really see inflation stabilize. in fact, some of the measures actually looked worse in may than in april. so that was part of a calculus of l line moving up at a slighty higher than normal rate increase that happened at our meeting last week. >> brennan: one person did descent, esther george, and she said she thought the fed was moving by too much and too fast,
and said it can be unsettling to households and small businesses. why is she wrong, and are you confident these dramatic hikes won't trigger a recession? >> i would never say esther is wrong. it is an alternative view. we had signaled that we thought 50 would be appropriate, and then we got new data. we also said we really need to be nimble in this period of uncertainty. when we see data moving in the wrong direction or continuing to move in the wrong direction, and information that inflation expectation is not in the short run, but even in the long run are moving up, that was convincing to me that it was appropriate to move in a bigger clip than we thought. we'll look is it moderating and coming better in line with supply. and is inflation turning back down? that is going to be key here. we need to see compelling evidence that inflation is beginning to move back down towards our goal.
>> brennan: uh-huh. the treasury secretary, j janet yellen, you know her from when she was running the federal reserve, she said this morning the economy will flow. how much do you expect it to flow? are you predicting a recession? >> i'm not predicting a recession. if you look at the forecasts that were submitted and released from the meeting, you'll see we have growth slowing to a little bit below trend growth, and we do have the unemployment rate moving up a little bit. and that it's okay, right? it is sort of we want to see some slowing in demand to get it in better line with supply. but there are other things that will be happening later in the year, too. for example, we've already seen households really shifting some of their spending, rather than spending on goods, which really was the bulk of spending coming out of the pandemic, the height of the pandemic, when the economy reopened, into more
services. that will help alleviate some of the upward pressure on goods prices. so other parts of the economy will be moving as well, as well as what we're doing on interest rates. we've already seen interest rates have an effect in the housing sector, where the housing seco sector is pulling k from the heights it has seen. we are going to be navigating setting our policy rates, our interest rates, so that we can maintain a healthy economy and healthy labor markets as we go through this period. there is a lot of uncertainty out there. we'll have to be very careful and nimble in how we approach this pulling back of this economy -- >> brennan: the fed chair, though, was pretty clear that there are things that are beyond your control. monetary policy can't solve this problem. he said gas prices are beyond your control. the war in ukraine. covid. so for people at home, does that
mean they should assume their food and energy costs are going to stay high for the next year or two? >> so i agree with chair powell. the way monetary policy works is on the demand side of the economy. we can slow some of that demand that is way above where the supply currently is. but we should expect to see some moderation and improvement on the supply side as we go forward as well. highly uncertain, i agree. monetary policy can't control that. what we can do is really do what we can with our tools to get this inflation problem -- as you said it is at a 40-year high, and we've got to get monetary policy in a good place to combat that excessive demand, and the excessive demand that is really driving prices. we're committed to doing that and keeping inflation -- moving it down back to 2%. but the reason it will take a while is because we need to have that supply side come back into
better balance as well. and that's why it isn't going to be immediate that we see 2% inflation. it will take a couple of years. but it will be moving down. >> brennan: a couple of years. the other thing that is hard to measure is people's confidence, right? and when they look at being told by the administration, by the feds, that inflation was transitory, they can say people were wrong, right? the officials got it wrong. gary cohn, former president of goldman sachs said the fed is clearly behind the curve, clearly rate in raising rates, and now the runway for a soft flalanding is much shorter and narrower. you've got to acknowledge there have been mis missteps and the k is rising. >> monetary policy could have pivoted a little earlier than they did, and we're doing that
now by moving interest rates ups. there are other things going on as well -- the ukraine situation which is a tragedy, and it has lent to the high gasoline prices. so other things were moving on the supply side as well. no doubt supply conditions remained constrained longer than i think anyone thought. some of the businesses in the cleveland district all thought there would be meaningful improvement as early as last year. we didn't get that. and now they don't see meaningful improvement until much farther out. so, again, other things are going on. what i want to say, though, is we, as a fed, are very committed to using tools at our disposal to bring this inflation under control and getting it back to 2%. i is the number one challenge in the economy now. >> brennan: it is. >> and i believe it is necessary to do that if we want to sustain healthy labor markets. i don't see this as a tradeoff as well. >> brennan: it is a huge economic challenge and a
>> brennan: today is juneteenth, a federal holiday marking the abolition of slavery and african-american freedom. juneteenth 1965 is when the last enslaved people in texas received word of their freedom, more than two years after president lincoln had signed the emancipation proclamation. we would like to turn to draueoo raise an antiracist," and "good night racism." happy father's day, by the way. >> thank you. >> brennan: i know you hav holiday is? teach hers >> i'm going to teach her that it is freedom day, and that throughout this nation's history there has been two perspectives on freedom, really two fights for freedom. enslaved people were fighting for freedom from slavery, and enslavers were fighting for the freedom to enslave. in many ways that sort of
contrast still exists today. there are people who are fighting for freedom from assault rifles, freedom from poverty, and there are others who are fighting for freedom to exploit, freedom to have guns, freedom to maintain inequality. i want to get her to understand there are multiple kinds of freedom, and she should be fighting for and joining with those who are fighting for freedom from something like slavery. >> brennan: so this concept gets at sort of the core of what so many of your books are about, when you say antiracist. i just want to be clear for people who are listening, you do not teach critical race theory or c.r.t., which has become very politicized. you focus on this idea of anti-racisyou e tple at home t difference? and for those who say it might
be too advanced for a child. how do you respond? >> critical race theory is an anti-racist theory. i'm really trying to get the american people to really understand there is inequality, and the cause of that inequality is not what is wrong with, let's say, black people, it is what is wrong with bad policies. the way kids can understand it is kids understand bad rules. my daughter understands what is not fair. and we can teach children that there are bad rules in society. there are things that are not fair in society. and that's why, let's say black people have less. it is not because they are less. >> brennan: you -- so i think for people at home who are trying to understand the concept, it's interesting because you basically are arguing being color-blind is not a virtue. for so long people were taught be blind to color.
you're saying acknowledging this is important because if you ignore it, it allows racism to survive. is that right? >> it does. and unfortunately, we as parents and teachers and care-givers of children, and just, you know, adults, want to believe that. but unfortunately it just not true. studies show as early as three years old, our kids have an adult-like concept of race. they're not only seeing color, but they're attaching it to qualities like smartness, like honesty. and so we have to share with our children, yes, there are all of these different colors, but they don't mean anything. just like a book cover doesn't mean anything. you literally have to open the book, and you have to open someone's heart to see who they and what they truly are. >> brennan: c condoleezza rice was on this program around this time last year, and she said when it comes to teaching about race, she wants children to be taught about america's birth
defective race, but to be forward on its issues. she said, i don't want it to be black against white, my weaponization against yours. do you see that weaponization happening? because there is fear of that. i think thutthat's talkbouth bn racism and anti-racism as opposed to black and white. and i also think it is important for us to upped understand whatl in my work racist process. let's take voter suppression policies, how they have become more sophisticated over time. so if we're not recognizing both racial progress and racist progress, then we're going to be missing the way in which racism and why racism is persisting and why inequality is persisting. >> brennan: one of the things we're tracking right now in this country is this threat of domestic extremism. and just this week the
18-year-old white man who killed 10 black people at a supermarket in buffalo, new york, made an appearance in federal court. he apologized to his parents but explained his motivation as being about preventing the elimination of the white race. how do parents prevent their child from being radicalized like that. it sounds like online recruitment for terrorism or something. >> it is. and that's a huge, huge problem. i mean, the number of particular white male teens who are being recruited in multi-player video games or online through means and direct messages, it is really high. and the way that we protect our kids from that is ensure they can identify white supremacist ideology. and the way they can identify white supremacist ideology is to teach them about it. there is no way they're going to be able to protect themselves from it -- just like they can't
protect themselves from cars. they have to understand to look both ways, whether they're teenagers or young people, so they won't get harmed. >> brennan: dr. kendi, thank you very much. good luck with the book. and happy father's day again. >> thank you. >> brennan: we'll be right back. (loud drumming) drums! drums! aaaaaahhhh! at least geico makes bundling our home and car insurance easy. we save a lot. aaaaaahhhh! ohhh! (loud drumming) animal! aaaaaahhhh! for bundling made easy, go to geico.com. uh-oh... ♪♪ making friends again, billy? i like to keep my enemies close. guys, excuse me. i didn't quite get that. i'm hard of hearing. ♪♪ oh hey, don't forget about the tense music too.
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>> brennan: that's it for us today. thank you all for watching. and a reminder you can set your d.v.r. if you can't watch the full show. and to all of the dads out there, including my dad, my father-in-law, and my husband, happy father's day. until next week, for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan. captioning sponsored by cbs ca ioned by medi
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