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tv   Amanpour on PBS  PBS  July 14, 2018 12:00am-12:31am PDT

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. welcome to amanpour on pbs. tonight, diplomacy and drama as president trump slams the british prime minister ahead of their uk meeting while back in washington the u.s. justice department indicts 12 russian for hacking democratic officials in the 2016 election. i wrap up the day's fast and furious events with britain's former ambassador washington, peter westmacott around washington's former eu ambassador anthony gardner. plus, the mayor of london, sadiq khan, response to the president's personal and bruising attack on his record and he tells me why the massive protests are important.
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welcome to the program, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in london. the first full day of president trump's visit to britain lived up to its billing -- controversial, fast-pace action, pomp and protest. it began starting with an unprecedented interview in the "sun" tabloid in which president trump directly criticized his host the british prime minister theresa may. later, though, when standing beside her he tried to walk it back and make nice. >> i give it the highest level of special so we start off with special. i would give our relationship with the uk and now especially after this two days with your prime minister i would say the highest level of special.
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>> special or not, the president avoided central london and parliament behind me because of this -- tens of thousands of people packed trafalgar square and marched through the streets protesting his visits and his policies on immigration and record on women's issue. a blimp of trump in the diaper appeared over head then two bombshells dropped back home in washington. the deputy attorney general announced the most serious charges yet from the mueller investigation, allegedly russians hacking into democratic computers. >> the indictment charges 12 russian military officers by name for conspiring to interfere with the 2016 presidential electi election. >> and police say they have identified the source, a small bottle of the novichok nerve agent that left one person dead and another critically ill last week. it looked a lot like a one-two
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punch, a power play to set up president trump's one on one summit with the russian president vladimir putin next monday in hielsinki. my guests are collectively battle-tested veterans of diplomacy across the united states, europe and russia, they are peter westmacott, uk ambassador to the united states and anthony gardner, america's ambassador to the european union. gentlemen, welcome to to the program. a lot to digest. just one you think you have one trail of news, another one comes. just when you think you know the way and direction there's whiplash. so what do you make of the indictments in washington regarding the mueller investigation and accusing members of the gru, military officials in russia of hacking into the democratic national convention and their computers during the election? what do you make of it, peter
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westmacott? >> i think this is the next stage of an investigation that we've known about for a long time. the mueller investigation has been thorough, very well staffed, it hasn't leaked and each time there's something that comes out of that investigation it is very serious and carefully explained and calibrated. of course the people they have indicted are not living in the united states but what this does is firmly make the point the russians were interfere in the united states presidential election and with the campaign of one camp in particular. does it mean that the trump administration is somehow complicit? ? no, it doesn't say that. did it make -- does it provide additional evidence that the russians made a difference? it's not saying that, either. but it's one more nail in the coffin of the russian lies that they had nothing to do with it and the timing that president trump is going to meet president putin in helsinki, that's important. >> and we understand he briefed
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president trump before making this announcement. what do you think because there are u.s. senators -- democratic senators -- calling for president trump to cancel his meeting with president putin. do you think he should meet and read him the riot act or should he cancel? >> i think he should cancel. i'm troubled by news reports which if correct indicate he'll be meeting putin alone with the interpreters. think of what that -- signal that sends. after this week in which he's undermined both nato and undermined the eu, he'll be meeting with him alone. those agents were not acting alone. it's almost certain to say they were acting on instruction so this is not a meeting you should be having so i think he should cancel. >> this comes with the double whammy of the metropolitan police finding this vial of novichok. now the prime minister said again, i hope you tell president putin to stop doing that. they blame the russians.
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now one person is dead so it's a murder investigation. they're not blaming the russians for the latest one but they think it's the same novichok, the police have found a vial in the surviving gentleman's apartment. they're trying to investigate what that is. what do you both believe as diplomats and you're used to these power plays. does this information give trump more ammunition should he continue with this summit? should it put vladimir putin on notice? what do you think this does ahead of this summit? >> trump, of course, would say he expelled 60 russian diplomats last time around in response to the very strong message from the brits so they believe at the highest level the russians authorized the poisoning of the other two levels who didn't die but were seriously injured and almost certainly this is a link to that, to the same file that was used to provide the same
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poison and because it's ok to sick the other people who found it were con nominated. i think it gives donald trump ammunition to go into vladimir putin and say, look, you have to knock this off. there's two big things, leaving aside ukraine, one is interference in western democratic processes and it's not just in america and the other is bare-faced shameless assassination of the regime's enemies on the streets of free countries. we feel very strongly about that because it's been happening for britain than it's happened in as many as a half dozen other cases which have not been fully explained and it does mean president trump can go to his friend though he says he doesn't know him yet, vladimir putin and say there are certain things which you've got to stop doing if we do business together. >> it's not coincidental this the rosenstein indictment announcement today were about military officials in russia in terms of hacking. the novichok, we're told, can
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only be produced by the russian military and the state. this is not just some individual stealing some highly strategic nerve agent. it's very -- it points to the highest levels of the russian establishment. >> it does and this is a strong indictment but he won't use that power to point to putin and really exert his influence. the expulsion of 60 diplomats is one of the weakest things we could have done because the russians did the same thing in expelling 60 of our diplomats. there were many things we could have done. one of my biggest disappointments in the obama administration is that we didn't do more. we could have named and shamed people close to putin in terms of their financial arrangements in the west, we could have done much more to restrict their travel to the west and we could have used the swift financial network to isolate russia as we have with iran. there was a whole list of
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options. we decided not to do it. obama looked at him and said knock it off. perhaps trump will do the same thing but that's not enough. we have to say we know what you're doing and we will take consequences that are close to you and your family and your cronies. >> to both of you looking at the wider big strategic position of th this, president trump started with hurling insults in germany and then ending fairly united, at least restorally. we're united, we're stronger. what message does vladimir putin take away from the allies' behavior at the nato summit? >> he takes a lot of messages. the message he takes away is this president is not fully committed to the nato a lines or at least is sending mixed signals and certainly takes the
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message away that this president is actively trying to divide and potentially conquer the eu. certainly in terms of trade. those are all things that he will welcome. in the last week i would argue this president has done more to weaken both alliances than the russians and putin could have done working by themselves. >> do you have the same view? it was interesting in the press conference that president trump said the materially headlines these mornings have been very sort of chaotic and then by the evening we're all on the same page. he meant that about brussels and he meant that about hear in the uk -- here in the uk. what if you were sitting in putin's seat who everybody says plays a weak hand incredibly well. what would you think ahead of meeting this president in a couple days? >> i would be saying to myself this is a relationship which is quite useful to me. how many years does it go back? for how long have the russians been working with or playing
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donald trump we don't yet know. we may learn more in due course but if you look at the way in which putin has got a cozy relationship with president erdogan of turkey and is busy selling controversial air defense systems through turkey he sees plenty of opportunities here to divide nato to split up allies and he's probably thrilled to have a president of the united states who he so passionately opposed to multilateralism, to international organizes which have done such a good job at keeping russia in check and western countries at peace doing rather well. he's playing a very weak economy and a badly run country extremely well. >> >> i was going to say he's done two things in the last week, he's sought to undermine one of our key allies, angela merkel, because he wants to prove her wrong on immigration. then he comes here and he is seeking to undermine the leader of another close ally, prime minister theresa may and endorse a rival for her position.
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>> well, the whobrexit issue an what is -- let's play the dueling trumpian soundbites. >> i would have done it much differently, i told theresa may how to do it but she didn't agree -- she didn't listen to me. >> once the brexit process is concluded and perhaps the uk has left the eu, i don't know what they'll do but whatever you do is okay with me. whatever you do is okay with us. just make sure we can trade together, that's all that matters. >> okay, so you've done a bad job, you didn't listen to me but now it's okay as long as we can trade. how did you interpret that? is he trying to cozy up to his hard brexit friends? what's going on here? >> i interpret those remarks -- and he walked back a bit in the
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press conference with with theresa may as a conscious effort by froump intervene in the domestic backs debate. perhaps that's why he did it. i think what happened, john bolton's national security adviser over here for pri meeting -- >> bolton was here? >> he was here. >> an extraordinary event. >> just a few weeks before, not to see the government but to see the european reform group. i think this was about warning theresa may off a version of brexit or british pgs which was moving a bit towards the prague met i can maybe we can do something with customs union single market and the rest of it because i think the hard line friends who have very good links into the trump administration were probably asking him to get involved in nudging her back in the direction that they would like. >> so anthony gardner, special relationship or not, what about trade. he did same if you do it soft we won't have a bilateral trade
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agreement with you. >> maybe those comments could have been made behind closed doors but they're based on a fallacy, a lot of american companies have invested in the uk as a gateway to europe because the uk's regulations have been aligned with europe. same thing with the japanese. the big bone sticking in our throats is agriculture. a lot of our agricultural exporters cannot stole the eu because of rules related to hormone-treated beef and chicken disinfected with chlorine and so forth. those things won't go away. the uk won't ditch those rules. there would be demonstrations in the streets so it's not by coincidence he made his original remarks founded on a misunderstanding. >> it's fascinating. ambassadors both, thank you so much indeed for joining me. >> thank you. >> and next, while president trump did spend the morning and the afternoon walking back his tabloid talk, he made a point of doubling down on one part of
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that sun tabloid interview, the comments that immigration is destroying the culture of europe and one person has been squarely in the presidential cross hairs, sadiq khan with who president trump has had a runni feud. the president made this unprecedented accusation. >> you have a mayor who's done a terrible job in london. he's done a terrible job. >> why? >> take a look at the terrorism taking place. look at what's going on in london. i think he's done a terrible job. i think this immigration has changed the fabric of europe. >> and he added not in a positive way. perhaps the highest profile muslim politician in the west, s sadiq khan, joined me earlier to respond to this, mayor khan, welcome to the program. how surprised were you to see the interview in the tabloid the "sun" by the president as he was
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coming to great britain. >> i think a lot of us were surprised about what he said by the interview. i went to bed last night and woke up to read this interview and it must have been a very difficult evening for prime minister may at the dinner she had with him last night but some of the things he said will cause upset and will explain, i suspect, why many londoners -- and by the way, they include londoners who are americans -- will be protesting today against president trump and some of the things he said. >> let me ask you specifically about the things he said about you in this interview. that your policy of letting migrants into the city is very dangerous and bad. that's you've been bad on anti-terror. he is continuing this feud he's lad with you for the last two years. >> it takes two to tango and it takes two to get involved in
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that fight. i respond when i'm asked questions by journalist to the tweets he sends and to the interviews he gives where he volunteers opinions and views about me. i'm not looking for a fight or a feud or tweeting voluntarily about president trump but the two key things he said in his interview is, one, that i was somehow responsible for the terror attacks in london. we lost 14 people last year in the terror attacks last year and one of the comforting things for us was the messages of support and love from friends around the world including america. manchester lost 22 people, berlin, paris, brussels, nice lost many, many people. we're all grappling with the evils of terrorism and for president trump to explain whee he singled me out as the mayor of london not other mayors or other leaders. but the second slanted point he made during the interview was to
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link the increase in crime across our country, crime has gone up across our country in the last four years, in south yorkshire and manchester by 16% and he's linking the increase in crime with the increase in immigration to europe. i've seen no evidential basis for that but second i'm not spo responsible for immigration policies across europe. >> you know the trump administration is changing its asylum policy and you've seen the controversy over its migration policies but he did make a sweeping statement in this interview that migration, i how willing i think he said millions of muslims or millions of people into europe has completely changed the culture and as he said upped the crime. how do you respond to the cultural accusation? >> for thousands of years we've had immigration and if we didn't we would have no people here. we're by the river thames and over the last thousand years
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what we've seen in london is people, ideas and trade come into our city around the world. that's one of the reasons why we're the greatest city in the world and my statement to president trump is don't be scared of diversity. diversity is a strength, a thing to be cherished not scared of. there are londons of christian faith, hindu faith, sikh faith, those members of organized faith, he'd met members of the lgbt+community, pluralism is nothing to be scared of and i'm unclear why the president of a country as brilliant as america who has in its constitution enshrined in these values is so scared of immigration. why address peoples concerns instead of whipping up fear. >> you talked fact he would come to london. he said he doesn't feel welcome here, he blames you for being behind the protest and for
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allowing this blimp to fly over london. what is your answer to that that he specifically doesn't feel comfortable and welcome in london which is why he's not in london. >> one of the things not just as a former hoo man rights lawyer but somebody who loves america, i've studied the u.s. constitution, i read the speeches from franklin to jefferson and it's in your constitution, freedom of speech and freedom to protest. we share those values, our constitution has similar rights enshrined in chon law and other documents as well the ideal we would curtail freedom to protest, freedom to speech, freedom to assemble because somebody's feelings are hurt, laughable. can you imagine a protest in new york or washington or chicago being stopped or a banner being put down because somebody's feelings have been hurt? we have history littered with uk prime ministers and u.s. presidents agreeing on most things but agreeing to disagree on other things. think of the vietnam war, the suez crisis, think of reagan and
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thatcher from the faulk lands war to the grenada invasion. we had a puppet of president reagan without a brain and he wasn't thin skinned, he understood in a democracy we have comedians and protesters. when president bush came here in 2003 there were thousands and thousands in the streets. >> millions. >> quite, so it's unclear why this president is so worried about the rights we have in our respective countries and why he wants to throw them in the bin or suspend them around today we have people protesting against president trump but tomorrow in london we have the extreme far right and pro-trump protesters. one of the great things living in a democracy is as long as you're peaceful and safe you can protest. >> you mentioned that and steve bannon the mastermind behind the trump election is in town meeting with those like minded nationalists, you called them extreme far right but those people and you haven't hindered
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that. >> that's one of the things about living in a democracy. that's what pluralism is about. my concern about the rise of narrow populist movements is that we have to address the concerns of people having them. there is a reason why people are voting from these populist parties from hungary to italy and other parts of the world. i'm concerned when mainstream politicians normalize or give credibility or empower the far right. so for example when president trump retweets the tweet from britain first, a far right group banned from facebook, the leader banned from twitter, not only is he amplifying messages of division and hatred but he's giving credibility as the president of the usa to those far right groups and we have to take them on. >> now frame the prime minister is not from your party, you're in the opposition labour party. nonetheless, what do you think of a president -- and you've talked about the special relationship and the headline of
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the "sun" tabloid newspaper saying theresa may has wrecked brexit, no u.s. deal. >> let me tell you the irony about people lecturing me about the aarp of diplomacy, particularly president trump and his supporters about how it's not diplomatic. i'd argue it's not diplomatic when you're ant to enter a country to do an interview which criticizes the prime minister and the strategy she's embarking on and many republican politicians criticized president obama when two years ago he made the point, i think the valid point, that if you leave the european union don't be surprised, you're going to go from a mark of 600 million where you go towards the back of the queue in relation to trade deals with the u a. those same people are now jumping on the back and of trump. president trump has said that if the prime minister embarks on her brexit strategy we will go to the back of the queue in
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relation to the trade that the u.s. does with us and the jump. what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. >> he seems to be taking talking points from boris johnson, the foreign minister who resigned afteressentially back stabbed the prime minister. >> it's not for me to comment what goes on in boris johnson's head. president trump is signing up to be the campaign manager for boris johnson for prime minister, people are joking. boris johnson left behind a massive mess that we're still cleaning up but as foreign secretary, nobody who studied our foreign secretary would say he's demonstrated diplomatic skills for importance of going on with allies but making good relationship for those we need to do business with. and many people not just in the diplomatic corps but in the government and around the country are breathing a sigh of relief that we appear to have a sensible politician in that job which is important. >> and i want to quote from you
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wrote in the "evening standard" the daily newspaper here ahead of president trump's visit. "the very specialness of our relationship means we expect the highest standards from each other and it means speaking out when we think one side is not living up to the values that we hold dear." do you feel you're one of the few public officials who actually does speak up? nato has been berated, g7 allies have been berated. none of them speak out. >> i love america. i love americans as do many londoners and many people in my country because you are a close -- we have a special relationship, my expectations of you are higher than they would be of leader of another country. so my expectations of a president of the usa are different to my expectations of the president of turkey or another country around the world. just like a best friend, the expectations i have of a best friend are higher than just an acquaintance so i suspect this from a close ally, i expect this from other countries.
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similarly nato at its score the u.s. relationship, u.s., canada, and the european countries, turkey as well and i just think, you know, we shouldn't cower to people whose views we disagree with particularly if they're close mates. i wouldn't dream of being scared to express to my best friend my views about something she was doing. i don't know why the prime minister is afraid to say to president trump we agree with you but we think you're wrong. >> mayor sadiq khan, thank you very much indeed. that's it for our program. thanks for watching amanpour on pbs. join us again next time.
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steves: salzburg's cathedral, constructed in the early 1600s, was one of the first grand baroque buildings north of the alps. it's sunday morning. the 10:00 mass is famous for its music, and today it's mozart. enter the cathedral, and you're immersed in pure baroque grandeur. ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ since it was built in only about 15 years, the church boasts particularly harmonious art and architecture. in good baroque style, the art is symbolic, cohesive, and theatrical, creating a kind of festival procession that leads to the resurrected christ triumphing high above the altar. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ pacem ♪ music and the visual art complement each other.
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the organ loft fills the church with glorious sounds as mozart, 250 years after his birth, is still powering worship with his musical genius. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ pacem ♪
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anchor:you're watching beyond 100 days" on pbs. what a does president trump really think about theresa may and the hopes of a trade deal with the united states after brexit? >> today's been a day of mixed messages and embarrassing timed interview with sun newspaper seemed to lay bare significant differences. >> a press conference with the prime minister may or may not have helped limit the damage. president trump: i give our relationship the highest level. p.m. may: i'm confident this transatlantic alliance will continue to be the bedrock of


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