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tv   Quadriga - The International Talk Show  LINKTV  December 2, 2017 2:00pm-2:31pm PST

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>> hello and welcome to quadriga . the summit between the european union and african union was dedicated to the future of african youth. that focus, once again, images of suffering and despair like the would be migrants who and in detention camps in libya. thee images reinforced pressure on politicians to stem the flow of migrants and ththeir
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sufferering. tested on thehas merkel. -- angela merkel. can they work together to give africans a future on their own continent? are they not only neighbors but equal partners? that is the question we want to pose. it is a pleasure to welcome christine mhundwa. is changing, but much of the way that west approaches the continent is caught up in the old ways. it is a pleasure to welcome thorsten benner. insays more development will the short to medium term likely increase migration flows. and finally, glad to have gebrewold again.riam:
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ready to sell their heart and soul. partnership he comes a permanent pain for africa. -- becomes a permanent pain for africa. let me ask you whether the summit really can make an ithentic difference, whether can break through the old ways you mentioned in your opening deliver a more equal, truly fundamental partnership for change? i am skeptical, as our people my age on the continent. we have talked about this. the average person does not know the summit is taking place.
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youngy are meeting about people, young people are not aware of that. how much change can they be hoping to bring the young people without the engagement of the young people? africans aren't even aware of .hese take a look at all three of the statements, i would have read isude the comments the sense if anything, relations may take a turn not for the better for the worse. it is up to the decision-makers. we are not headed for an equal partnership. african countries are not equal. o vastly als different. hana have in common?
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if europeans approach this explaining their interests, and interest in economic development, that is good for our business. migration control. we have problems with white wing -- right-wing populism. based on then arguing out your interest, i think that would be a sound approach. >> there was a lot of stress amongst the europeans meeting that ac common interests -- that they see common interests. the certain that is arcon triesdent m to show us. we are historically bonded together. we have a close relationship. is the continent in proximity to europe. europe needs agriculture and
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other raw materials from africa. there is no doubt about it. these colonial business lines are there and will continue to be. thereal clue is whether head of states are in a position to transform this into some sort of partnership. the methods they are using, the culture they are making. the land is not convincing. you come from zimbabwe. your country has had an octogenarian leader. you have a country with a youth folds -- bulge. that seems like it could be a basis for a fruitful
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partnership. christine: it is. i have spoken to young africans aware of that. they are aware of what is going on and the demographic taking place in europe. dan spier -- and aspire to come to europe to get educated. a partnership that can be reached. by and lararge, what young is tons are appealing to say, see us as equal partners. we are here to help you. we can both get something. we have talked about the resources. the skills. educatedis a very country. at some point, young africans are demanding, not from the west, even from their leaders -- part of the reason why robert mcculloch mcgaughey fell out is they looked at him as someone old school. robertof the reasons why
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mugabe fell out of favor is because they looked at him as someone old school. young people say, we want to hold iphones. they are out of touch, largely. in touch with people who feel they are being talked down to buy the western world. >> one thing that strikes me in the symmetry information. we have just heard her telling us young africans are aware of the demographics in europe. we tend to have a one-dimensional view of africa. when we talk about these negative images of africa as a continent of hunger, of despair, of migration, are we in the media currently responsible for the fact that this story is so perhaps a one-dimensional? hunger and disaster
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always cells. sells. you should have in the media more interviews with entrepreneurs in africa building of businesses or who are investing. i do think we need to do reporting on south sudan. otherwise, there is no pressuree for change. at the same time, we also need to do reporting on industrial parks. this will help him more nuanced view. negative images were on display in the run-up to the summit after cnn broadcast footage of what appears to be a slavery auction in libya.
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libya has become the jumping off point for desperate people, seeking to migrate. that is putting pressure on european leaders. european leaders in turn are pressuring their african counterparts to stop the migrants. let's take a look. a of blurry photo is -- blurry photo is all she has left. 90% of refugees risk their lives using this route. >> my friend who came showed that -- >> now he is in a detention camp in niger. the government set up the camps under pressure,'\ and with support from the european union. chad,d, mauritania
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and burkina faso have been called un to o keep themn afri, if necessary bforce of arar. ishis what partnership between the eu and africa should look like? you have said in your opening statement europe is misusing african leaders as bouncers. politiciansropean have a point when they say both sides have an interest in ensuring people who have no chance of obtaining legal residence don't wind up as victims of libya's lawlessness? >> that is correct. let's wind back. see the situation i ilibya, the european union signed an agreement with the libyan government. nobody knows which to government they are talking about. there are three elements and at least one terrorist group operating there.
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when you have an agreement with such a chaotic situation that leads to this type of slave trade, that is appalling for us. i never thought we would see on african soil such an image. they signed a deal with libya without any plan envisioned. that is what they have produced now, directly or indirectly. slave auction markets. there is an interest for the african side. nobody in africa is interested to see their sons and sisters the sea.ers dying in african leaders have got to do their part which is to generate for the people income generating activities that make it viable for africans to remain back home.
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nobody is taking them to task. partnership starts with of course this kind of, this kind of commitment on both sides. sorry to say but thehe whole ise of migratition iss basically areuse the 27 eu countries not able to agree or manage their own crisis. that is the starting point. >> i would like to come in there if i could read i find it ironic. this selection process, if you will. we want certain africans but we don't want the refs. i know people contribute to european and western african economies. they have been taken out of the continent and they are improving economies here. useful at have been home. yeah, brain drain. have you take someone who took how do you take
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someone who sat on president obama's economic advisory panel and bring them back to zimbabwe? everybody is going to look to europe as the place where dreams come true. the best of africans are welcome. what they do, unfortunately, does not have much benefit for the people back home. >> how do we fix what is clearly a very, very broken system. hearing that the immigration laws that german politicians say germany must adopt would suck out even more talent from africa and leave those with few prospects behind? thorsten: first of all, we need to fix the horrible situation we have in libya. maybe it will work. , thereyan authorities
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are many governments and militias operating. determine who under the geneva convention has refugee status. they will be flown out to neighboring countries and eventually flown out. they will be returned to their countries of origin. longer-term, i think i'm a we need to have a situation. say whoas the right to comes to our shores. that is the rightful approach on the part of europeans. legaled to open up migration, both for refugees and also for workers coming. you are very right, this should not lead to brain drain. there are ideas, they should be low skilled workers who come.
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partially also as circulular migratioion. they can go back to african countries. the ideas are there. whether it will work, whether slatedatest it -- those will want to go back, you can not force them to go back. the ideas are on the table. leaders are mindful that we should not be encouraging brain drain recklessly. how it will work in the end, that is unclear. >> let me come back to one point we saw in that short report. camps,a of other detention areas, centers. what ever. whatever euphemism you use. it is an idea the president t of france the spouses. -- espouses. is there any reason to believe the centers would work better
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than the holding camps in libya? is this aspect do you think really likely to function? thorsten: i doubt it -- i doubt it but at least he would deal with one government. a government with a track record niger. reeve can find some sort of authority and it is not a failed state even though they have problems. this type of measure, what europe is doing is trying to enforce through coercion. we have a plan for africa. we have a marshall plan, africa initiative. it is a confusion. do not knowureaucrats who is talking about which plan. it is a massive scale, they are
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trying to push something within a few years just to satisfy their own clientele. certain we also have a short-termrm long-term discrepancy? europe perceives it itself as having a severe short-term lyrical problem with migration. -- short-term problem with migration. it is seeking to address it with measures that take a lonong time to work. development aid and education. >> if you educate somebody but the country does not have the correct infrastructure for them to build a business, for example, they are not going to be able to use that education on the continent. people are looking at the immediate situation. nigeria.ung african in i have no job prospects now. whether there wiwill be a road o the city andnd i do not have to
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travel long distances, it does not make a difference. people risking their lives, it speaks to the urgency of the situation. >> let's take a look at the carrot thing both by the european union. education and training for would-be migrants who say they are willing to stay at home. these refugees have been flown back to the ivory coast from camps in libya. s on theirthe clothe backs and their lives. they are greeted, it is good pr. >> we have to discourage young people from leaving and make them want to stay. >> job training might be a good start. he visits some carpenters. he tells them the country needs young people.. however -- >> at the end of the tunnel, after this training, there is no
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follow-up guidance or support. we don't finish what we started. become self-sufficient and give young people prospects,s, e trtraining center director says they need loans and investors, not handouts. is that a solution? what do you think? can such programs work even if the follow-up is spotty? i think generally, i have never seen a country developed through development aid. it has to come from inside. at least this kind of scheme guarantees up to a certain extent that people can stay at home. not only when they have income generating activities but also market a let's. -- outlets.
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that is, i think, the key issue. now we are talking about 40 billion investment. these are gigantic figures. most likely they are doing it because the chinese are already on the continent. >> withoutut condition. second, whatever one says about the chinese, what we can see with them is they are talking on equal terms. there are certain things africans can push through. nevertheless, it does not allow the african states to simply neglect their continent, cash their money, and then not do anything. good governance is a central issue but it must be claimed from both sides. >> two aspects to that. first of all, the development assistance peace. quite a l long time ago on d development assistance
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projects t that were essenentiay trying and failing to anticipate market needs. microeconomicin -- macroeconomic frameworks that were dysfunctional. a lot of people will tell you on the continent, we do not like the word aid. i am saying, if i'm getting a scholarship this ready and it is ising to development aid, -- not my concern. i want to talk about -- put eight aside -- aid aside. are we having the conversatiti when multinationals are evading taxes to the amount those amounts exceed what is coming in? aid and the about fact europeans need to have us aid.
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in actual fact, we need to have a conversation about things siphoned out of the country. -- tax heavens to help havens.. that is a conversation with having. >> governments was mentioned, you come from zimbabwe. you have decades of experience with bad governance. can african civil society partner with europe in a way that can truly, effectively fight that kind of corruption? briefly? >> yes and no. yes and no. i say that because, whwhen we tk about with our governments, i think we can safely say a lot about politicians -- a a lot of politicians are compromised. the way that that is approached is crucial. >> several open issues there,
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international approaches to tax reform, to close exactly those kind of opportunities for money laundering that feed corruption. point number one. number two, areas where partnership could work. lots of lip service. where do european and other development partners have leverage to influence governance? >> i will say what christine said. tax regimes, making sure african kleptocraptic-- elites. the trade deals are not on advantageous terms from any of these countries and do not necessarily encourage development.
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alsogovernance, yes, but the aware of our limitations. we cannot force it upon our rulers. of transparency, that is for sure. i would go away from the development logic. the idea of the european union, there are many of these plans that for example the germans, they are all about encouraging investment of western companies in africa. if that is done on fair terms, that investment actually increases, i think there is more of a chance that will actually aided development laid -- aid development later on. lots of lip service is also paid to investment and the need to get the private sector involved.
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what holds investment back? where are there areas to create aa more effective investment climate? they should have started investing in africa many years ago. leadersod some african in business people have started to invest into their continent. for example, nigerian millionaires paying $100 million u.s. dollars for startups. i think those kind of perspectives are good. investment is better than aid. >> thank you very much, thanks for tuning in. see you soon.
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♪ michelle: hello and welcome to "fokus on europe." i'm michelle henery. glad you could join us. can climate change be stopped? finding the answer to that ququestion is top of the agendat the u.n. climate conference in bonn, here in germany.y. onone of its goals is to prevet fufurther global warming.. take the arctic, for instance, where space is increasasingly scarce for p polar bears l lig there. sea ice is disappearing at an alarming ratate, and worryryin, temperatures in the coldest regions are rising at a a highr rate than n in other parts of e world. last year, norway's svalbar


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