tv Morning Joe MSNBC November 9, 2012 3:00am-6:00am PST
t.j. estrella. he pulls it all together. he helped conceive, create. he's responsible for the way this show looks responsible fore show looks and feels every day. t.j. is one of the greats in the tv business, and i'm grateful for everything. i love you guys all so much. i'm going to miss you. thank you so much for watching "way too early." i'll genuinely being with you, the viewers, every day even at this ungodly hour. "morning joe" starts right now. even before last night's results, i felt that the work that i had done in running for office had come full circle. because what you guys have done means that the work that i'm doing is important. and i'm really proud of that. i'm really proud of all of you.
and what you've experienced -- >> that was president barack obama speaking to his young staff of volunteers in chicago a day after his historic re-election. good morning. it's friday, november 9th. and with us on set, national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and msnbc political analyst, john heilemann. also msnbc contributor mike barnicle and pulitzer prize-winning historian, jon meacham. he's the author of "the art of power." it's no longer forthcoming, it is here. and in washington, nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. good morning, andrea. >> hi there. >> john heilemann, it's been such a long, long road since you guys started reporting on president barack obama -- then-senator barack obama's first election campaign in 2007.
here we are five years later, a very emotional moment for the president who has endured five years of the highest highs and the lowest lows in politics. this has to be one of the most special moments for the man. >> undoubtedly. you know, it will be -- you think about the significance of him winning the first time, obviously, an historic moment. but in a lot of ways, you know, if he had lost on tuesday night, there would have been a lot of people who kind of consigned that victory to an accident. >> he would have been an aberration of history. >> almost re-election means as much and maybe in some ways more than the first time, you know. he's not a guy given to public emotion, displays of emotion. back in 2008 on the day before the -- on the day before election day when his grandmother died, he teared up in north carolina. it was the first time i think anybody had seen him publicly tear up. on the last day of this campaign in des moines, iowa, i was with him again. and again he teared up.
it was an emotional moment. you know, these are rare things for barack obama to be that out front with his emotion. and it tells you something about how deeply this whole thing has affected him. and i think, you know, the sense of the mantel of history, i think, sits heavier on his shoulders than he sometimes allows himself to show. and in these moments, he's letting it show through. >> no doubt about it. we can talk about what a loss would have meant for the history books with jon meacham. but mike barnicle first, there has been a pattern over the past 20er y eyears in american polit for a president to be elected and the opposition to immediately try to delegitimize him, it began with bill clinton in 1992. it followed with george w. bush in 2000. and it began anew for the next democratic president, barack obama, in 2008. the hatred, the vitriol that was
constant just as it was for his predecessors, but really that must be what makes this re-election, this convincing re-election, seem so sweet for this president and the millions who voted for him. >> yeah. we saw from the results on tuesday that the demonization and the infection that you just alluded to that has so crippled much of our politics, both in the cities and in towns that we live in as well as, obviously, in the congress has not really overtaken the entire process. barack obama was re-elected, and we have been told repeatedly in print and on these programs that this particular president is very difficult to access emotionally, that he is reserved, that he is withdrawn. and you saw there in that clip the president of the united states tearing up before a group of people who have spent an enormous amount of time helping him get re-elected.
and it just points to the fact that the president, at the ends of the day, while the president of the united states is a human being. and he realizes quite well, more than any of us would ever realize, that the end of his trip, his electoral trip, summons the beginnings. and i think that's what brings the tears. his journey, historic as it is, legendary as it is, the first black president of the united states of america, traveled the country from coast to coast, state after state, small town, big city, tremendous crowds initially in 2008. again, running for re-election this year in a time when the country seems so polarized, so beset with problems. yet he stood there, and it all must have washed over him clearly in the past couple of weeks, the exhaustion, the gratitude toward those who worked for him, the gratitude toward people who vote for him, the success that most americans,
all americans, i would hope, wish for him. it's understandable why there were tears in his eyes. >> jon meacham, we can talk about what would have happened had the president lost. obviously, you would have immediately been dismissed as a man who was not ready for the job, as an aberration of history that would have had consequences, i think, for democrats for some time to come. instead, we have the president winning re-election. we have john boehner returning to the speakership. harry reid returning. to being the senate majority leader. and while the status quo was the big winner last tuesday, the history books will not remember the names john boehner and harry reid as long as they will remember what this re-election meant for president barack obama. >> that's exactly right. it is a ratification.
it is an affirmation historically. you could argue that maybe one of the reasons he's crying is he's going to have to deal with john boehner and harry reid going forward. so there could be a very practical trigger there. but certainly, i mean, what mike and john have said is exactly right. it's an important moment. he's the third democrat, fourth democrat, to do this in a century. woodrow wilson, franklin roosevelt, bill clinton and barack obama. not bad company to be in. >> by the way, i heard you say that on wednesday morning. who was the democrat -- the last democrat before that to do it? >> well -- >> that's a test. >> -- that is a test. >> jackson? >> i guess it would be jackson. >> i think, yeah. one of five. >> it's a very big deal. it seems to me now -- and this goes to what john was just
talking about -- how human they are. he is tired. it is incredibly emotional. so the question, then, is in this moment, does he become more open to humility, something mike's been talking about for a couple of days. does he become the humble figure who says, i heard you even if you voted against me. and we sometimes forget, these are men who run around realizing that virtually one out of every two people he sees doesn't want him to have the job he's got. >> right. zloo which >> which is an emotionally wearing thing, it would seem to me. does he draw strength from this? what does he learn from the first four years? and how long does this season of reflection really last when it hits the cold reality of dealing with what's coming up in december? >> and that is the thing to remember here, andrea, that as jon said, about half the country voted against him. and yet his victory was overwhelming when it came to the
swing states, came to the electoral college, but he has to certainly look back on history. he's a man who reads history. and just looks at recent history, andrea, to remember all the presidents who won re-election in our lifetime. in 1972 richard nixon, of course, followed that up with watergate. in 1984, ronald reagan, two years later, faced iran-contra. in 1996, bill clinton, three years later, faced impeachment. in 2004, george w. bush who, of course, the next year faced katrina and a collection of disasters. how does the president keep his head down, not be swept away by the moment, and avoid the mistakes of his four predecessors? >> well, i think what is so sobering -- and this isn't a grand historical vision or a legacy moment -- because for him, the reality is going to be
around 1:00 today when he comes out and says what he would do about the fiscal cliff. we can all laugh about the term as much as any of you, but the reality is really grim. when i started going through the numbers yesterday of just what taxpayers -- ordinary taxpayers -- are going to face, i had no idea that it wasn't just the bush tax cuts, even though i follow this stuff pretty closely, the minimum tax hitting, of all people, the most people who will be affected by the amt kicking in if congress were to let it happen. and you've been there, so you know that they'll blink at the last moment. but the most people of any state live in new jersey who are the middle-income people, people who make $75,000 a year and have two children will have to pay $4,000 more according to the irs and all of the tax studies. and the other thing about that is if they don't blink and if they let it go till january 1st or 2nd and then try to fix it, the irs says it can't be fixed
in time for people to get their refunds in march or april. because it will take so many months to unwind it. not to be throwing cold water on the grand legacy arguments, but the reality of what this man faces, of what we as a country face is so sobering. >> right. >> i think that the emotion that he felt was in the moment, being in chicago, surrounded by those young people. i've been at headquarters. you have. you've seen that when you first walk in, it looks like an insurance company. really what they did was filled with passion. we just didn't see it that much. >> and the congressional budget office came out with a report, andrea, that talked about the seriousness of the crisis we face, that unemployment will spike to 9.1% if this fiscal cliff is not averted and we'll go back into a recession. well, house speaker john boehner yesterday remained steadfast in his opization to raising taxes. but for the first time seemed optimistic about a deal.
take a look. >> i remain optimistic that we're going to be able to find common ground to avoid this fiscal cliff and find a way to work together. >> but by when? by january 1st? >> i would hope so. >> the president is talking about specific increases. he campaigned on specific increases in tax rates from 35% to 39% for those making more than $250,000. so is that on the table right now? >> raising taxes on small businesspeople is the wrong prescription given where our economy is. >> is it on the table to talk about the wealthier americans pitch in here. >> i said yesterday that raising tax rates is unacceptable and, frankly, it couldn't even pass the house. >> you will talk about it even if you believe it's the wrong approach, you'll talk about it? >> of course we'll talk about it. we can talk about all kinds of things we may disagree on. i'm the most reasonable, responsible person here in washington. the president knows this.
he knows that he and i can work together. the election's over. now it's time to get to work. >> and ato prove his point, listen to what he had to say about the repeal of the president's health care plan which really has been the goal, it really has. it's been the goal -- it's been the holy grail of conservatives over the past two years. listen to what he said when asked whether he would keep trying to repeal obamacare. >> well, i think the election changes that. it's pretty clear that the president was re-elected. obamacare is the law of the land. >> but you won't be spending the time next year trying to repeal obamacare? >> there certainly may be parts of it that we believe need to be changed. we may do that. no decisions at this point. >> okay. >> it's a new era. >> it's a new era. by the way, first of all, it is a new era. it's okay to call it obamacare now, right? since the president said he's proud of that, right?
>> he's proud of it. >> so i can do that without people on the left saying that i'm racist. >> right. yes, you're allowed. >> hate all democrats. >> i grant you permission. >> you remember well what president reagan used to say about reaganomics. they stopped calling it that when it started working. >> when it started working. exactly. well, if the president says it's okay to call it obamacare, that's a lot easier than the affordable health act. what do you take out of everything you heard from mr. boehner, speaker boehner? >> well, i take -- you know, you can flip around what andrea said and turn it on its head. it's a huge challenge but also a huge opportunity. we were talking about legacy before. what a hinge this re-election is. you know, if he had lost in a very practical way, if he had lost, the republicans probably would have repealed obamacare. so his great achievement would have been reduced to rubble, right? instead, it's now up there on the mantel as a great trophy, the great democratic achievement of his first term. you know, him getting re-elected
makes the stimulus okay. >> not just of his first term, i mean, that's the great democratic achievement of the last generation. >> yeah, absolutely. so he's got that now, right? and he's now had his vision of having saved the country from the second great depression, ratifying. now he turns to the second term, and he has this opportunity to deal with fiscal cliff. it's a huge problem. if he fails, it could destroy his second term. but if he achieves it -- and this is what you see in john boehner, you know, everything that boehner has been doing so far since the election is signaling, you know, a willingness to work. he's saying i'll accept new revenue. you know, i don't want to see tax rates go up, but we'll accept new revenue. that was not the republican position 18 months ago. the president now, if he can get a deal done, which on boehner who seems very open at this moment, very conciliatory to getting a deal done, much more so than mitch mcconnell, if he can get a deal done in the first six months, he's got health reform and putting the nation's fiscal house in order for the next three, four, five
generations as the signature achievement already of his second term, that puts you in the league of some of the most successful presidents in our history. those are huge, big-time -- those are big-time accomplishments. >> he's got the opportunity. >> yes, that's what i'm saying. the door is open for him. >> he is going to have to strike some deals. >> he is. >> and he's going to have to make some grand alliances. >> i don't know anyone who knows speaker boehner who doesn't say a couple of things about him. one, pretty good guy. >> handsome. handsome. >> two, can cut a deal. knows how to cut a deal. and three, from that clip, joe, a guy who knows that he is one of the point people in leading a renewal of the republican party. he's got to cut a deal. he's got to cut a deal. >> but he doesn't have to cut a deal. that's the point and that's what the president and that's what the white house needs to understand right now, that the republican party -- and i don't want to upset anybody because this is a great moment for the
president and for democrats. it was a great election for him. i don't want to upset anybody, but jon meacham, the republicans regained the majority -- they regained the majority by running against the president, running against the bailout, running against obamacare, running against tax increases, running against all the things the president ran for. this should not engage anybody. this is divided government. >> yeah. >> this is the genius of james madison. this is the genius of our constitution. this is the genius of our founding fathers. it frustrates republicans when democrats do it. it frustrates democrats when republicans do it. we're going to have to figure out how to work together. and i do believe the president and john boehner are more likely to do that the second term than the first. >> yes. and in a divided government, you're really talking about two, three, maybe four votes where you're giving the other side the
benefit of the doubt. i mean, we're not talking about some kind of, you know, brookings institution kingdom of god, warren rugdon is going to come and say we're all going to get along. the rodney king doctrine is not applicable here. we're talking about a couple of votes. and one is clearly -- >> by the way, do you talk about the rodney king doctrine in the new "jefferson" book in. >> i do. he helped draft it. >> big jefferson. >> he used his quill pen on that. historically practically, you need the vote on some kind of bargain real quick on the lame duck. you're going to need it to make sure you ratify that deal going forward. and then you're going to need it on a couple of things that you want -- if you're the president -- that you want to invest on, right? whether it's education or whatever it is. and you're not going to get a whole lot more. there are not going to be a lot of 60% votes here.
where democrats and republicans are coming together. and so practically, the president has a couple of chances here where he can pull this together, use this kind of historical feeling which is very effervesce effervescent. it will stay with us for a long time. if you've got a district to run in in 23 months, not long. >> fleeting. >> it's so fleeting. such a tiny moment. >> the era of good feeling passed in 24 hours. >> i was thinking thursday lunch. >> andrea, obviously the players there, can they make a deal? can they come together? can they avert the fiscal cliff? can they even go beyond that and help grow the economy? >> you saw some signs -- chuck schumer yesterday said that he would accept a 35% top rate, not insist on it staying -- going back to 39.6%, which was -- >> that's significant. >> that's significant.
and so if they're now talking about how high the top rate could be, whether it's 35% or a little bit less, as john boehner would argue, then you're talking about the outlines of a deal. i thought i heard a lot of flexibility in boehner. the kwereal question's going to mitch mcconnell and whether senate democrats can get enough republicans -- bob corker, a key player and some of the other republicans already on the senate side have been talking. there's the gang of eight. olympia snowe working really hard on doing this before she retires. kent conrad on the democratic side. i think there is a deal. but as we've seen with the grand bargain, it can slip away very, very closely. the fact is there was a house gop caucus conference call, and they said they wanted to give the leadership some running room. so boehner may have more running room than we thought. >> jon? >> what andrea raises to me is the key question here is how much influence does boehner have? "a," in the lame-talk caucus and
"b" in the new caucus. >> he's got a lot more. he doesn't have to do the deal, but he's going back to a lot of people that stood in his way before and said, listen, guys. we're next. so if you want to lay down on the tracks, that's fine, but i'm going to get out of the way. you can get run over if you want to. >> say that again. talk about why boehner has that influence. >> because the world is closing in -- listen. everybody expected the republicans to do a deal with the president over the past two years. if you were a republican that got swept in in 2010 and you were part of the largest legislative landslide in modern american history, would you immediately come in and go, you know what? i'm going to make a deal with the guy that got me elected, in the negative. no. that's the thing that the media did not report on over the past two years. they never tried to get into,
you know, the shoes of the men and women that got elected in that historic class. the biggest class to get swept into power since 1946 for the republican party. why would republicans, after winning 700 state legislative seats across the country, after having the largest majority swept in since 1946, why would they all, on the power of negative feelings about barack obama, make a deal with barack obama? and because a lot of people in the mainstream media never wanted to admit that obamacare had been so thoroughly rejected in 2010. they never reasoned that out. now john boehner can go back and say okay, great. well, that was 2010, wasn't it? well, this is 2012. >> '13. >> and it's going to be 2013. and soon it's going to be 2014. and if you want to have happen to you what happened to mitt romney and what happened to the republicans in the senate, go ahead. but i'm stepping out of the way.
eric cantor, good luck with that. >> timing is everything. >> timing is everything. >> that's important to understand. >> i think eric cantor will be more cooperative with john boehner. and again, because eric cantor comes from -- and i'm not knocking eric. eric represented the feelings of a caucus that had been swept in by an historic landslide. but eric now lives in a state that has gone blue two times in a row. coming up, senator chuck schumer's going to be here. his suggestion that a 35% top rate would be okay, would be significant if he's willing to talk about that. also, we've got the assistant managing editor for "fortune" magazine, leigh gallagher. also nbc political news director, chuck todd. and former 007 star, roger moore. sir roger moore to you. coming up next, mike allen with the topster steste stestes
the "politico playbook." first bill karins with the forecast and gas rationing continuing in new york city. >> amazing, joe. 11 days since sandy struck, and now new york city and surrounding areas are now having gas rations. every other day you can get gas depending on the last digit of your license plate. this is because of supply and distribution issues. the power is going back on in a lot of those gas stations, but these lines continue. just to give you an example in brooklyn where i live, at 2:00 a.m. when i come to work, it was still a two-hour-long line. people sitting there with gas cans waiting to get it. it's incredible that it continues now almost two weeks since sandy struck. gas rationing because of shortages in new york city. this morning temperatures continue to be very cold on the heels of that nor'easter. the snow is still on the ground. bundle up. windchills in the 20s in new england. even down to the 30s all the way down to washington, d.c. so this is it, though. we're going to start to warm it up in this region of the country. we desperately need it. it's been rough out there. it's going to be in the 50s
today instead of the 40s. we should melt a lot of that snow. as we go through the weekend, a big pattern change. the warm air in the middle of the country's headed to the east coast. so we should see all of that snow gone. and the people without power should not be suffering so bad at night if they're still in their houses. the worst weather in the country today, by the way, a huge storm up in idaho, north dakota and montana. that's the travel trouble spots. the forecast as we go throughout the week, that storm gives up wet weather in the middle of the country. but watch as the east coast warms up by sunday into the 60s in areas in new england. so it's about time we get a break after those two epic storms. new york city, gas rationing now 11 days after the storm hit. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] if someone asks what it feels like to drive a jeep grand cherokee, tell them it's like being nestled in an eight-way, adjustable, heated and ventilated seat surrounded by a 500-watt sound system
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drone last week. >> that's reassuring. >> officials say the slow-moving drone never entered iranian territory and was neither hit nor damaged. the u.s. issued a formal warning that it will defend its military assets. >> "arizona republic," a dramatic scene yesterday gabby giffords and her husband came face to face with jared loughner. loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms in prison, ending his federal case. he can still be tried in arizona state court, but local authorities say this is unlikely. >> and from our parade of papers, "the richmond times dispatch," former dnc chairman terry mcauliffe announced he'll run for governor of virginia in 2013. mcauliffe may face former governor and current u.s. senator mark warner during the state's democratic primary. warner has not ruled out a return saying he's going to make that decision by thanksgiving.
and on the cover of this week's "parade" magazine, how to throw the perfect holiday get-together with the cast of "the chew." we also have a quick update on the campaign to raise money for epilepsy research. as you know, david axelrod's mustache survived the "morning joe" election challenge. but with my mustache-growing endeavor hanging in the balance, we made a deal. david's putting his famous 40-year-old mustache back on the chopping block, promising to shave it complete reply off if we can raise $1 million for a cure dedicated to funding research. i pledged to donate $10,000. and in just one day, we're already 8% of the day there with over 1,000 donations pledging over $80,000 so far. please make a donation today. at slashthestache.com and also
mojo.msnbc. and donald trump tweeted yesterday, "i'm sending you a check to help find a cure." ivanka trump says hi. nothing about the records. with us now, chief white house correspondent for "politico," mike allen, he's here with the "morning playbook." mike, what's the lead story this morning on "politico"? >> well, happy friday. >> happy friday. >> and "playbook" is kicking in $2,000 to slash the 'stache. move that up a little bit. >> that's fantastic. thank you so much. >> top of "politico" this morning, marco rubio, senator from florida, arguably one of the biggest -- maybe the biggest -- republican winner on tuesday. people are looking at him as someone who can help the party thread the needle of finding a way to talk to the new generation, finding a way to talk to more of america. but a couple of hurdles that marco rubio has that his advisers are very aware of. one is, you have to find a way
to talk in a more compelling, broader way for the party without alienating the most conservative people who are the base of the party, control the nomination. when we hear marco rubio talk about immigration, we're going to be hear him talk in biographical terms, talking about his parents, worked as a hotel maid, a bartender before they came to america from cuba. the other thing that they're very conscious of is they don't want him to be the latino candidate. marco rubio is going to offer himself as a compelling conservative, but someone who can also talk to hispanic-americans about why republican values should be their values. and that includes family values, that includes entrepreneurism, a free market. joe, if you want to know what's on his mind, a calendar entry for marco rubio on november 17th, he'll be doing a fund-raiser in altoona, iowa. he's doing the annual birthday
event for governor terry br branstad. >> he loves terry branstad. >> and the people. >> and the people. you're cynical, but i'm sorry. in 2012, the last time i checked -- and i haven't seen, you know, all the election results, but i don't think caring for the american people was voted out of favor tuesday night. >> no. maybe in fact. >> maybe he cares too much. >> he cares too much. >> if there's a problem, he cares too much. >> and there's always the pork chop on a stick. >> the scary thing is mike allen is going with him. >> mike allen will be going with him doing updates. hey, by the way, i heard yesterday in florida, john heilemann, that jeb is cranking up his machine. that he is going to run in 2016. >> and bush versus clinton. >> it's bush versus clinton. 25 years later. this time it's permanent.
personal. 25 years later. it will have been 20 -- a quarter of a century since 1992. america's new way forward! bush v. clinton. yeah! >> it's amazing. >> i just am so excited. >> fresh blood. >> and we thought it would be chelsea versus george p., but no, not yet. >> if we could just get a gore to be hillary's vp, then we're set. mike allen, thanks so much. that's right. thanks so much. >> have a great weekend. next, rookie quarterback andrew luck. this guy is unbelievable. he leads indy to another win. and the letters mvp are crossing some lips. highlights from thursday night's football straight ahead. the capital one cash rewards card
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indianapolis visited the jags in jacksonville last night and they were looking to go 6-3 after a miserable 2-14 season last year and no more peyton manning. colts players were still sporting those shaved heads in honor of head coach chuck pagano who's going through treatment for leukemia. second quarter, colts in the red zone. luck fakes the handoff, rolls right, pump fakes, bang, goes in for himself through two defenders, score. colts jumped to an early 10-0 lead. same score a few minutes later. luck shows off his arm, hitting his receiver. watch this catch. aifvy. avery. 44-yard gain. that sets up another trip into the red zone. opportunity for the colts. fourth and one. luck bangs it in himself. he's a big guy, by the way, joe. he is big, huge guy. gets a little help from his offensive lineup, of course. upse upset. what's his name, mike malarky or something? >> mike malarky.
>> is it? >> joe biden's kind of guy. >> yeah. he drew an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. luck threw for 227 yards. ran for two scores. the colts won their fourth in a row, beating the jags 27-10. indianapolis is now 6-3. >> holy cow. >> andrea, andrew luck, rg3, what's the deal? pick them. >> you know i have to be loyal to rg3, but andrew luck had a heck of a game. i was in the airport watching it, so i didn't see the whole game, but wow! they're incredible and they're sort of a matched pair of incredibly talented agile quarterbacks. i just wish that washington could deliver with a team to surround him. >> yeah, it's been a while since we've had two great rookie quarterbacks come into the league at the same time. college football. tenth ranked florida state took on va tech last night. let's go to the fourth quarter. florida state down by two. 46 seconds on the clock. e.j. manuel hits green. he turns on the jets.
he goes 39 yards in for the score. he is quick. florida state survives the scare. they beat the hokies 28-22. the seminoles can secure a spot in the a.c.c. championship game with a win next week over maryland. i could beat maryland by myself. >> no doubt about it. up next -- guess what we're going to have, johnny. >> i don't know, what? >> the "must-read opinion pages." >> i love those. where's mika? >> she telefaxed in from nice this morning. >> telefaxed? i don't know what that means. >> we'll be right back opinion ♪ these are...
[ male announcer ] marie callender's puts everything you've grown to love about sunday dinner into each of her pot pies. tender white meat chicken and vegetables in a crust made from scratch. marie callender's. it's time to savor. . welcome back to "morning joe." there's a shot of the white house. beautiful, the white house. >> fiscal cliff right here. >> exactly.
that's historic. that was an historic election. let's do our "must-read opinion pages." mika has telefaxed us in over the mojo wire. charles krauthammer, "the way forward." and this is what charles says. "the answer to romney's failure is not retreat, not aping the democrats' patchwork pandering," on and on. >> that's a lot of alliteration from anxious anchors placed in powerful posts. >> that is. republicans, though, i like this. no wim perfecting, no whining, no wining, do conservatism but do it bet ter. there's a whole generation of leaders ready to do that. really this is a party doomed, jon meacham, by demographics if they can't make the compelling case that conservatism, the type of conservatism i believe in is
just as relevant to an 18-year-old latino voter in new mexico as it is to a 65-year-old white voter in birmingham, alabama. >> the conservatism is not limited to country clubs and that there is in fact a libertarian small government more self-determined, self-government governing ethos going forward. and that argument was not made. and that seems to me that a republican party pulling itself back together here is going to have to argue that you want to keep the government in the, you know, out of your life as much as possible. >> right. >> and in order to create space for individual choice, individual decisions. and in a climate, in a generation and a world shaped by the technological and cultural factors that have shaped this generation, seems to me there's a climate where that argument could work. >> the opportunities lost by this republican party, mike
barnicle, that elected a multimillionaire, possibly the richest guy ever to run for president, the same election cycle that we had the collapse in 2008 of lehman brothers due to wall street scandals, due to banking scandals, that was a missed opportunity, doubling down on a failed afghanistan war strategy was a missed opportunity. americans would have loved to see a republican talk about breaking up the banks, ending the war in afghanistan, rebuilding the country here at home. but no republican was there to answer that bell. >> you know, the issues that you just mentioned, when you measure them against a conservative philosophy which many people in this country adhere to and like to hear about, the principles of conservatism, that is one issue that you put over here, and it's a very attractive issue. it has very attractive aspects to it. and yet it seems to me that the republican party, in their quest for conservatism, have come to
confuse with what they hear on talk radio as conservatism principles. the three issues that you just mentioned, you rarely hear them on talk radio. they're talking about building higher walls, getting more people out of the country, stuff like that. just, like, crazy, hate-filled rhetoric rather than principled talk about politics. >> the thing is, john heilemann, milton friedman didn't trust big businesses any more than he trusted big government. there would have been a great opportunity to say, break up the banks. bring the troops home. and by the way, break up the bureaucracy in washington, d.c. fight for smaller government. that's a message that would have broken across party lines. boy, it was a very, very narrow ideological path that this republican party wanted to run. >> it was. you know, i don't mean to change the subject, but i think, you know, one of the things that we've been talking about yesterday, a similar subject,
what else do republicans have to do. it's a mormeck cal point. but boy, as we looked at the stories that have come out over the last few days, we talked a lot yesterday about the incredible mechanical expertise that the obama campaign brought to bear. we're now starting to see how bad the romney campaign was. these stories are now coming out about what their ground game actually looked like and their voter identification and their poll watching and all this stuff. and, i mean, it's like deep blue, you know, the ibm computer that played chess versus, like, guys working on an abacus or something. >> how did that happen? >> you know, it's weird, these things move in cycles. >> how did it happen? >> you get periods where democrats are ascendant technologically and karl rove and those guys, and it sways back and forth. boy, republicans apart from having to come up with a message that appeals to the new emerging electoral coalition, they'll have to figure out how to modernize their basic inf infrastructure, because man, we are rapidly hurtling toward a new world that they are still caught in the past. >> can you believe how bad the
last two republican campaigns have been for president? how badly run they have been? >> well, you know, yes. i think yes, both of them had significant flaws. but you know, just to drive this point home -- >> by the way, that starts at the top. >> it does. >> it starts at the top. >> in the end, the candidate is ultimately responsible for his campaign and the blame or credit should rest with the candidate. the story that blew my mind yesterday was the story about the fact that somehow the obama campaign managed to increase african-american turnout in ohio from 11% in 2008 to 15% in 2012. the country, african-americans are exactly the same, 13% in 2008 and 2012. in ohio, it had a 33% increase in black turnout in ohio. why did they win ohio? they won for a lot of reasons, but that's a huge part of the reason. and a huge part of the reason why the romney campaign, to the very end, thought how can we be losing ohio? this doesn't make sense.
the obama campaign went out and found votes that they didn't know existed. >> strategically goes back even further than that where the romney people allowed david plouffe to draw up the map. and said this is where we're going to be fighting the battle. these are going to be the nine states. and that's where they fought them. instead of going into pennsylvania early, instead of going into minnesota, instead of forcing them to fight on their own turf more effectively. and they had all the money in the world. and all for nothing. >> so why do you think they did that? i'll take a guess at why they did that from talking to american a few of them. it's because they thought the country was such in a mood, in this kind of a mood, that people don't like this president. they don't like what's happening to their lives, over the past two or three years of his presidency. we can just sit back, spend a lot of money on tv ads that very few people will pay attention to and people will come out in droves to the polls to vote against barack obama. >> you look at the big losers of
this campaign, and there are a lot of them, but boy, the guys that spent a lot of money on super pacs, wow! it not only didn't move the presidential vote, it didn't move the senate races. >> oh, my god. >> i think there's a dr. seuss problem here. that if the republicans can convince people that their heart is not two sizes too small and that they are big-hearted, it's an argument about big hearts versus big government. >> i do not like green eggs and ham. i do not like them, sam i am. >> sam i am. that is a different book. >> great book. >> republicans have been told by people on the far right that they have to make a choice between being real conservatives and being liked. ronald reagan somehow figured out how to do both. it was not mutually exclusive. chuck schumer joins us with a
look at negotiations over the fiscal cliff. plus nbc's political director, chuck todd, and moderator of "meet the press," david gregory will come in and join the conversation. we shall return on "morning joe." or that printing in color had to cost a fortune. nobody said an all-in-one had to be bulky. or that you had to print from your desk. at least, nobody said it to us. introducing the business smart inkjet all-in-one series from brother. easy to use, it's the ultimate combination of speed, small size, and low-cost printing. capella university understands back from rough economic times. employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever.
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liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? what republicans need to learn is how do we speak to all americans? you know, not just the people who look like us and act like us, but how do we speak to all americans? it's the hand that was dealt. i'll play it. and i went to bed. >> right away? how early? >> 11:15. i saw the handwriting on the wall for a couple of hours. and at 11:15, the race was, in
my view, finished. i went to sleep and slept like a baby. >> welcome back to "morning joe." john heilemann's with us still along with andrea mitchell in washington. joining the table, msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst who is exhaling, mark halperin. also assistant managing editor of "fortune," leigh gallagher. thank you guys so much for being with us. greatly appreciate it. mark, last hour we showed a clip of the president becoming emotional, talking about his victory to his staff. let's take a quick look at that. >> even before last night's results, i felt that the work that i had done in running for office had come full circle. because what you guys have done means that the work that i'm doing is important. and i'm really proud of that. i'm very proud of all of you.
and what you've just done -- >> mark, there's a president who has been criticized for being too detached emotionally, too distant not only from americans' problems but also from his own staff, from republicans. you heard it all before. he's actually been quite emotional over the past week or so. this seems like talking about exhaling, this seems like this has been quite an emotional time for him. >> yeah, i can't unpack the whole thing because i haven't talked to the president directly about it, but they made it somewhat of a risk putting the campaign in chicago. so you had david plouffe and the other folks in the white house and the president in washington, and then you had jim messina and david axelrod and others in chicago. and the president, i thought, went out of his way election night to praise his campaign team pretty much more fully than i've heard a winning or losing presidential candidate say. it was an intense place.
i spent a little time in that headquarters, and you couldn't help when you were in there to recognize that these -- for a re-elect, this was an emotional -- i won't say upstart, but they were hungry from the beginning. they recognized the challenge. and the president even though he's in a different city, i think that reflects his awareness of how hard that giant group of people worked in that headquarters and in the white house to help him get re-elected. >> they wanted -- he needed -- he demanded validation. the republicans for the past four years have been trying to prove that he was an illegitimate president just as democrats had with george w. bush, just as republicans had with bill clinton. this had to be a remarkable moment for him. by the way, let's look at those three really quickly. let's see how effectiveness trying to delegitimize a president. the three who have faced the harshest criticism from either the left or the right, they've all three been re-elected. i guess the politics of hate
just -- it just doesn't work in the end, does it? >> it's such a conundrum because you think about our politics are so polarized, and they're also so volatile. we've seen wild swings in the electorate over the course of the last -- of this period, over the course of these 20 years or so, right? but what we've also seen is three consecutive presidents now get elected to second terms. >> in 4 out of 5. >> 4 out of 5. you have all this really genuinely wild fluctuations in the legislative chambers and successive wave elections, republicans and democrats and off-year elections. at the presidential level, remarkable stability and the one common thread that unites all three presidents is they all three, two common threads but they're intertwined is that all three of them campaigned initially on trying to end the bitter polarization in washington, to try to bring people together, all of them found it much harder to do than they thought it was going to be. all of them were attacked systematically and delegitimized in the way you're talking about, and that brought the center kind
of back to them because there is some part of the middle of america that looks at those guys and sees them being attacked by the extremes and rally to them for that reason. >> it's a great point, 4 out of 5 you say the last presidents have been re-elected? >> reagan. >> think about it, when we were growing up, you had all the presidents who didn't finish, didn't get re-elected, of course, jfk, for reasons beyond his control, but then lbj and then nixon and then carter and then ford. ford, then carter. i mean, on and on. the president has been re-elected now, though. his legacy's going to depend a great deal on whether he can move us away from the fiscal cliff. how does that happen? >> yeah, it's going to depend a lot on the next two months, six weeks. it will be a good early test for how the next four years are going to go. look, we're hearing so much about this conciliatory
language. everyone is saying we need to have a deal. we have to have a deal. i think there is still a lot of ptsd from the debt ceiling crisis from last year. which was a very big deal. if you remember what that did to our economy. >> right. >> you know, we want to avoid that. and i think we'll avoid it. nobody wants to have blood on their hands because if you look at what's going to happen if we don't solve this, you know, andrea mitchell mentioned last hour, the amt, 40 million or 30 million people will be exposed to that. unemployment benefits will expire. we're at too fragile a place for this to happen, and everybody knows that. >> and the amt, how much does that fix cost? >> what do you mean by that? how much -- >> it's a lot of money. >> it's a lot, yeah. >> hundreds of billions. >> hundreds of billions of dollars. >> yeah, because it's 4 million now. you're talking 4 million to 30 million. >> how far out you try to fix it. and andrea, you brought that up last hour. everybody talks about the bush tax cuts, the bush tax cuts, and that's going to be addressed, but there are a lot of other
issues out there that have to be addressed as well. >> well, the payroll tax, the temporary payroll tax cut, which would, if not fixed and that was viewed as a temporary 2011 payroll tax cut, that would be an extra 2% on taxes on just about every worker in america, anyone who actually is affected by the payroll tax. so that's another big deal. there are so many of these tax breaks, the child tax deduction, all of these things are wrapped up in what we're talking about expiring on new year's eve. it's going to be a heck of a new year's eve if they don't fix it. >> a heck of a new year's eve. >> you have to think they're going to come to some kind of agreement and kick the can down the road. out there, the markets are sitting out there. and if this is just delaying everything, which the president said he won't accept, that is going to contribute to the uncertainty that has had all of these corporations sitting on their money. and they've got money to invest, but they're not investing, and
you can understand it. they want to know what the tax climate is going to be before they start spending money. one other thing that courtesy of our friend al cayman at "the washington post" just noticed that the gingrich term limits which you remember very well on house chairman, paul ryan will have to get a waiver from his house caucus colleagues to stay on his budget chair. i'm betting that that happens because he is still, i think, a rising star in the party. but he has that little thing that he's got to go through, which is to get a vote in the caucus before he can continue. >> mark. >> the other big element which is out there, not a january 1st thing but early 2013 thing is raising the debt ceiling. and remember, for the house republicans, that was a big bargaining chip. >> right. >> and a big element. we don't know the exact date. but when people talk about a deal, that's one thing you've got to factor in, will house republicans be willing to give an extension to deal with tax reform and other things if no one thinks can be dealt with in the lame duck or early next year and get something in return for agreeing to raise the debt ceiling.
i'm ready to admit the first thing i've already been wrong about, the president said the fever will break and a deal will come into place more easily. still difficult but more easily than has happened so far. i was skeptical about that. i think based on boehner's interview yesterday and what republicans are saying in general about the necessity of reaching a deal and kind of moving on, i think it's going to be tough, but i think the president was right that the environment's different. and i think his remarks later today, which are a huge deal in this process, i think will reflect the fact that he sees a different environment, a different possibility. the senate's ready to do a deal. and speaker boehner is a big part of the final solution, and i think he looks like he's ready to do a deal. >> i think just to get you off the hook a little bit, i think one of the keys here is what you didn't anticipate and very few people anticipated was not just that obama would win, but that he would win as decisively as he won and that the republicans would face the setbacks they faced in the senate and that so much of the political environment that's not just the presidential but across the
board would be such a repudiation, such a chastening moment for republicans. that's been a big part of why the fever might break because it's broader. >> the senate defeats for me were far more chilling. >> right. >> as a republican. again, we absorbed it the first night. i remember going to bed and getting 1 1/2 hours' sleep, coming back working and we were all focused on romney, romney, romney. and then late the next night, i started looking at the tallies, state by state by state by state by state. and looking, as john cornyn said, and it was a great observation by senator cornyn, we didn't just lose in one wing. every wing of the republican party -- >> every region of the republican party. >> -- was battered. in every region it was battered. listen, bob dole wasn't the greatest candidate in 1996. and john mccain wasn't the greatest candidate in 2008. republicans still figured out
how to win some senate seats that year. this year the republican brand was ravaged. and they paid for it whether they were moderates like tommy thompson, whether they were tea partiers, like the two whose names i never have to mention again, whether it was self-funding candidates like linda mcmahon, they all got slaughtered. >> big goose egg. >> their record in the dozen or so competitive senate races was as bad as mitt romney's was in the nine battleground states. i mean, they won about one or two of the really competitive races. >> and you know what john cornyn could have done about that, running the republican senatorial committee? nothing. nothing. because we so savaged our brand through the primary process. you know, when one week you had herman cain leading the field, sarah palin would be leading the field, rick perry would be leading the field, these people that had a hard time communicating on television that
seemed to be marginal political figures, at best, and it cost us. this does lay, at the end of the day, actually strangely enough power john boehner, the republican speaker, the last republican with power in washington standing. this empowers him to go back to his caucus and say, this isn't 2010 anymore. we've got to figure out a new way forward. >> exactly. he said it yesterday. he said there is a mandate. it's to work together. so it will be very interesting to see what happens. i think it was also interesting to see how the market reacted. it was a surprise. the market was down 2% the next day. and that was sort of, i think, surprising to those of us who -- we didn't expect that. and you could sort of, you know, slice and dice it. i mean, there was some bad news out of europe. futures were not affected the night before when the election results were becoming apparent. so that sort of leads you to believe it was europe. but i think there was some surprise. >> i don't know what the leaders of the fortune 500 companies are
doing. i do know what small business owners were doing. they were actually calculating out what the president's health care plan was going to cost them. and i got a couple of e-mails from people saying, i've talked to my accountants. this is how much this is going to cost me. and it was almost like it hit a lot of business owners for the first time that this was the new reality. and the three or four e-mails i got from small business owners from my hometown in pensacola, florida, they all said the same thing. i'm going to have to drop people. there are going to be a lot of people that are going to be working less than 30 hours a week. and when i do that, i'm going to lose my best people. i've got to start figuring out how i'm going to survive in this new climate. >> there's some practical matters at hand. when it comes to small and big businesses for that matter, i think everybody needs sales. people need sales to come back. no matter what size of business you are. you need organic demand to start coming back. and, you know, that's starting to happen. in fact, we're talking to a very senior investment banker who
works with all the biggest fortune 500 companies told me recently that people -- those ceos are starting to think about coming back in from the sidelines, doing deals, maybe not deals that are outside of their core, maybe not acquisitions that are out of left field, but something that's in their core business starting to think about coming back in from the sidelines. >> that's good because we've heard, for the past couple years, that there are $2 trillion, $3 trillion sitting on the sidelines. i don't know where this money is. i just want a small percentage of it. if they're not using it, i will. >> it's funny. one of my colleagues had a comment yesterday where he said uncertainty is dead. uncertainty is basically cash hoarding. it's kind of an excuse. >> part of the reason the market reacted the way it did was just at the sight of the headline, which was status quo wins. so dysfunctional. i think the market hadn't fully taken account of some of the dynamics we're talking about now where things may start to look more optimistic. >> why wouldn't they? >> the initial thing was this
again? >> more of the same. more divisiveness, more gridlock. this has not been great for us. >> we'll see what happens. hey, andrea, any final thoughts on how we're going to break this impasse? >> i think you're going to see the president try to reach out to congress, as he did not in the first term, and to the business community, which he dissed royally in the first term. and so that may be a hopeful sign. and i have a great booking today, by the way. >> who's that? >> the president of the united states giving his speech on the fiscal cliff in my hour. >> okay. i think andrea, you should take credit for that. >> completely. the 1:00 hour, he does it all the time. >> so if you want to see the president of the united states, you can only see it on one show, that's "andrea mitchell reports." >> special guest barack obama. >> with special guest barack obama. leigh, stay with us, if you will. coming up in a few minutes, senator chuck schumer will join us on set. and coming up next, nbc news political director, chuck todd, and also the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory.
and former speechwriter for george w. bush, david fromme. first here's bill karins with his take on the forecast. what's it looking like this weekends? give us good news. >> i think i'm done giving everyone bad news. good friday morning. it looks like the northeast finally storm free, ten days at least, and the warm-up begins. this is it, one of the last really cold mornings for all those still without power, still struggling to get back to normalcy. temperatures are in the 20z and 30s. windchills in the area affected by the two big storms. the weather pattern change is under way. all the warm air in the middle of the country headed east. all the cold air leaving. that leaves our friends on the west coast with a decent-sized storm to deal with. lots of snow this upcoming 24 to 48 hours. especially in montana and north dakota. and right through the mountainous areas there of utah, also colorado. i know telluride's going to get dumped on. even northern california, some of the mountains getting snow
the next 48 hours. here's your forecast for your weekend. east coast, it warms up as we go throughout the day today. all the warm in the middle of the country, that's a beautiful forecast there from st. louis to kansas city to dallas. and then through the weekend, a large storm moves through the northern plains. it's also going to be a big temperature change behind it. and finally as we get through your sunday, notice finally beautiful weather for the eastern seaboard. but everyone there in the middle of the country from chicago to dallas, you have a chance of seeing a two or three-hour period of soaking rain along that cold front. we leave you with a shot of new york city where gas rationing has started 11 days after hurricane sandy. it's ridiculous how long these lines are. we need gas to be distributed and supplied. let's go, now. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. welcome aboard! [ chuckles ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ honk! ] [ male announcer ] now you'll know when to stop. [ honk! ]
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moderator of "meet the press," david gregory and contributing editor for "newsweek" and the daily beast, david from. "why romney lost and what the gop can do about it." he is an extraordinarily fast writer. very prolific. i know that he just dreamed this up on wednesday, the e. bo e-book's out by friday. so please, let us know since you've had all this time to ruminate, why did romney lose? >> it's not just that he lost, it's that in six presidential elections the gop has lost the popular vote in five. in 2010, there was a senate majority in reach. it was thrown away with four bad nominees. this contrast in the six elections up through 1988, the republicans won five. and even including the losses and including the three-way race
of '68. what has happened is over a generation, a once-majority party has become a nonmajority party. and immigration is not the fix. it's part of the fix. but the real story of this election and of the past half dozen is that the republican message is no longer relevant to middle-class america. >> what was mitt romney's message? dev a message? >> yeah. >> what was it? >> mitt romney's message is, i am going to take away medicare from everybody under 55. i'm going to cut medicaid for everybody by about one-third. and i'm going to do that in order to finance a giant tax cut for me and my friends. and the reason i'm doing that is because half the country contribute nothing to our national endeavor. that's his message. >> well, you know, if you put it that way, david gregory, maybe it's not as unifying a message as the republican party once thought. actually, there are a lot of people that are going to be wringing their hands and talking about why the republican party lost. a lot of talk about demographics.
but i boil it down to this. they can't figure out how to make their message relevant to an 18-year-old latino voter, but they can figure out a way to make it relevant to a 65-year-old white guy in the south. i mean, if you believe in conservatism, you believe, like i believe and i'm sure like david believes, that it's relevant to all americans. >> i disagree with david a little bit in this respect. i think immigration is more than just a policy. i think it is -- it's a cultural issue. it's a tone issue. i think a lot of how republicans, including mitt romney, ended up talking about immigration was frankly inhumane. talking about self-deportation. not talking about, you know, in a compassionate way about families that are coming to this country to survive, to help families back home, and really sort of understanding what immigrants contribute to the country. president george w. bush, he understood that. he understood it as a candidate. he understood it as a conservative. he understood it as a president. and because of his own political
standing at the time that he was able to really get to immigration reform and opposition from within his own party wasn't able to actually pull it off. i think a lot of this is tonal whether it's the mourdocks and akins talking about rape or talking about abortion, i think the party sounds to a lot of voters like it's antiquated, and i think there's real debate over size and scope of government is one that takes some doing if you're actually going to go out there and win it, win that debate even though there's a lot of folks within the party who are more libertarian, and that may be a view that's even growing. >> and the thing is, david, i think, makes a great point. if you're going to make the argument for smaller government, you'd better understand, you'd better understand the philosophical groundings of that world view. mitt romney never seemed to get it on a gut level like thatcher or reagan did. >> since the loss of the election, we have heard an enormous amount of discussion from republicans on television, in newspaper op-ed columns about immigration as an issue.
and the tone. and i don't disagree with anything david gregory just said. but all of us who allowed to participate in this conversation, we all have health insurance. and the fact that millions of americans don't have health insurance, they don't get to be on television. that it is maybe a symptom of a broader problem and not just the republican problem. that the economic anxieties of so many americans are just not part of the national discussion at all. we have not yet emerged from the greatest national catastrophe, economic catastrophe, since the great depression. what are we talking about? the deficit and the debt. and these are important problems. but they're a lot easier to worry about if you are wealthier than you were in 2008, which most of the people on television now are again. if you are securely employed, which most of the people on television now are, but that's not true for 80% of america. and the republican party, the opposition party, needed to find some way to give voice to real urgent economic concerns held by middle-class americans.
latinos, yes, but americans of all ethnicities. >> so chuck todd, we were talking about the realities that we're going to be facing all of these leaders. john boehner, two years ago, was told, oh, you've got to strike a deal by people in the media. you've got to strike a deal. you've got to strike a deal. john boehner was the speaker of the most successful majority party since 1946 for the republicans. we won an historic landslide in 2010. how does that change? how did the dynamics change for john boehner? do you agree that he is more empowered two years later to go back to his caucus and strike a deal? >> reporter: i assume he is, but i don't know if he can do it. and that's a great -- you know, i think the next three months are going to be fascinating to watch. does boehner have the guts to go and bring a compromise deal to the house floor that won't get a majority of his republican conference?
can he -- does he have the guts to do that if the senate comes up with a compromise that gets 65 votes, gets 10 republicans on board, does he have the guts to do something like that? i don't know. i mean, you know, another part of this republican hand wringing that i'm surprised we're not hearing about is, you know, a lot of the reasons why, for instance, republicans lost senate seats, didn't gain them, but lost them. forget what happened two years ago in 2010 when they didn't win as many as they could have. they lost senate seats, which is still the biggest surprise, i think, of this election. not obama winning, not the republicans holding the house, but the democrats actually gaining senate seats. and it was because of this fear that the so-called leaders of the republican party, mitch mcconnell and john boehner back in the last two years and john cornyn, every decision they make is done out of, well, we're not going to do anything because we don't want to rile up the base. we don't want to rile up the
base. so they've catered to the base so much that it's alienated the party away from swing voters. >> it really is. following up on what chuck said, david gregory, you go back and look at the senate results and look at the fact, as john cornyn said, that the republicans got hammered in every region and in every ideological wing, and it really is, it's just a devastating defeat for the republican brand. you can't just blame this on one man. you can't just blame it on mitt romney. this was a total absolute loss. >> well, it was. and i think that one of the things that i heard the president say on election night was if there's a mandate for the second term, it's a mandate to get things done to make government work better. which is different than i just won and you lost and therefore this is my agenda. they essentially did that the first go around and it did empower a new brand of conservatism fortified by the
tea party and speaker boehner made his caucus much more difficult. i think things have changed here. but they can change for certain if the president's approach is that. my mandate is for us to achieve something. there is so much tension that has built up to this point where the fiscal cliff hangs over all of these legislators that i think there's room for the president to make it very difficult for not just boehner but for his base not to go along with some sort of balanced approach. because i do think that that is a big part of what these results are. the idea of some kind of balance in the approach, joe. >> reporter: hey, joe? >> yeah. >> reporter: you know what sort of shocks me? 15 years ago had republicans gotten the results that they have gotten, the leaders of the senate republicans would be asked to step aside. they'd be saying you know what? you've had your chance. you blew it. two cycles in a row. you blew it. and we're in the position we're in. i find it striking that's not happening. i mean, not only that, mitch
mcconnell is likely to get re-elected, and john cornyn's going to get promoted. >> but chuck, you know, if you're making the argument against mitch mcconnell, you're probably making the argument from the more conservative wing of the republican party. it's jim demint that would be making that argument. and we've talked about losers in this campaign. you want to look at the candidates that jim demint backed in the primary process? >> reporter: well, no, but if i were bob corker or lamar alexander or some of these other legislative -- rob portman, what i call conservatives that actually want to legislate. there are sort of two inc. wings of the senate republican conference. legislating conservatives and your conservatives that just want to blow up the process, rand paul, jim demint, folks like that. i wonder if mitch mcconnell's
approach was the right approach because that approach didn't work. that's my point here. and the question is, is mcconnell going to change his approach in negotiating and in dealing with the president and in dealing with harry reid and in dealing with john boehner, or is he going to go down the same road? mcconnell's up for re-election. he's got to worry about a primary challenge, a general election challenge. i'm just saying, it is curious to me that mcconnell actually is not getting touched here. >> i agree with chuck. it's a bit of inside baseball, but cornyn getting promoted is an unbelievable thing given what happened. i'm a fan of john cornyn's, but his record in the senate race speaks for itself. and the fact that people are just saying yeah, let him move up, unbelievable. >> people inside the senate know that john cornyn did not want todd akin to win the primary. john cornyn did not want mourdock to win the primary. >> but some of his candidates did lose as well. david, you talk about the issues, health care and appealing, part of the comeback for americans has got to come from leadership. where can it come from? presidential candidates in
waiting? senators? governors? who can lead the republican party now? >> i believe the republican party has a party of followership. the problem with republican leaders is that they're cowards, not that they're fundamentally mistaken. the real problem is the republican activist baste and the donor base. they went apocalyptic over the past four years. and that was exploited by a lot of people in the conservative world. i won't soon forget the lupine mile of one conservative institution when he told me our donors think the apocalypse has arrived, that republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex. >> wait, wait. i want you -- and i'm dead serious -- i want you to slowly repeat this. because i'm reading the new manchester biography on winston churchill. and i'm hearing about how the french kept calling churchill as the germans were pouring through the line and racing towards paris. and the french generals
reassuring churchill day after day, week after week that the french were putting up a brave defense had they knew the war was already lost, please, slowly repeat what you just said and hopefully conservatives will go back and look at what commentators and websites said over the past three weeks when they knew this race was lost. >> they have -- i'll say it again in exactly the same words. the conservative followership has been exploited, fleeced and lied to by the entertainment complex. >> name names. >> because of that -- i name names in the book. >> i don't think that's even necessary. >> and there are too many to name. but because the followers, the donors and the activists are so mistaken about the nature of the problems the country faces, the nature -- i mean, just a simple question. i went to tea party rallies. and i would ask this question. have taxes gone up or down in the past four years? they could not answer that question correctly.
now, it's true, taxes will go up if the president's re-elected. and that's why we're republicans. but you have to know that taxes have not gone up in the past. do we spend a trillion dollars on welfare? is that true or false? it is false. but it is almost universally believed. that means that the leaders have no space to operate. and we will -- what happened to mitt romney, mitt romney was -- could have been a really good president, really good. what happened to mitt romney was he was twisted into pretzels. the people who put the cement shoes on his face are now blaming him for sinking. >> and he would never stand up to the most extreme voices. i made you repeat that because, again, conservatives have been lied to. they've been lied to by people who engage in niche marketing and make tens of millions of dollars engaging in niche marketing. and i'm a capitalist. god bless them, they can do whatever they want to do, ut that's not an electoral strategy, that's a business strategy. david gregory, thanks.
who do you have sunday? >> how the president governs the next four years. we'll talk to senators schumer and coburn to get us started on th that. >> chuck, thank you as well. who do you have on "the daily rundown"? is that a trick question? >> reporter: i'm good to go. tim kaine, new senator-elect from virginia. i think those virginia leaders could play -- always play an interesting role in the senate. >> a huge role. all right, thank you, guys, appreciate it. david frum, thank you as well. "why romney lost and what the gop can do about it." still ahead, does president now hold all the cards in washington? bloomberg's josh green asks that in his new column, and he joins us straight ahead.
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welcome back to "morning joe." now we bring on democratic senator from new york, senator chuck schumer. senator, i've got so many questions to ask you. let's start, first of all, with the rockaways. let's start with the pain and the suffering of our friends on staten island. you know, i've been saying this the past couple days. when you go through a hurricane in florida, the electricity goes off. you basically strip down to your bathing suit and you clean up. here you have exposure. you have the elderly. you have the young, suffering, enduring -- it's terrible. tell us what's going on, and tell americans how they can help. >> what's going on is the devastation is both broad and deep. it's more widespread than you've ever seen. and so deep, there are probably 150,000 houses, probably that many that will never come back. 150,000. that's the size of a medium-sized american city, spread out over the southern shoreline and in new jersey, and
people have nowhere to go. their cars, electricity and water is gone. >> we're showing shots of staten island right now. it is the forgotten borough all too often, but right now i know they've got to be on your heart. it's devastating. >> i've had more grown men cry in my arms. they just don't know what's going to happen. on the other hand, new yorkers are resilient. i was in lindenhurst, a community on the water in suffolk county. there was an older guy named romano. he looked like a fisherman. he had a beard. i said, what are you going to do? he says, you know, look at the view. he had a small house, maybe cost $250,000, $300,000, which is low by new york standards. he said, i've got 364 beautiful days each year and one rotten day, i'm rebuilding. you know, after 9/11, we thought new york was over, too. no one would live south of canal street. we'll bounce back, but the devastation is heartbreaking. what people can do, the main thing we need is money. money to the red cross. money to the various
foundations. fema -- this is one of the big problems -- will only cover $31,400 in terms of rebuilding your house. a lot of these people are poor. they're poor homeowners, the house has been in their family for generations. $31,400 in new york ain't going to come close. >> can i ask you a question about the red cross? because when we were covering katrina and i was driving over, we were all driving over every day because it was only a couple of hours from our home, we were disappointed by the red cross. they failed miserably like fema failed miserably, like so many others failed miserably. i'm starting to hear -- and it's anecdotal -- i'm starting to hear complaints on the ground about the red cross. how can you make sure that the red cross does their job, that they're in the right position, that they don't do what they did in katrina? can you -- and i'm asking -- i'm asking, actually, as a guy that's been through a lot of hurricanes. and like all of us who have
friends, can you make sure the red cross is held accountable that if we tell people on this show, give to the red cross, that they won't store that in warehouses away from places and then resell it the way they did in katrina? >> there are funds that go explicitly to specific causes. and you know, we've done very well now between everybody with food and water and the basic necessities. clothing. but there's real help down the road that people are going to need. >> but you understand my question. >> yes. >> you'll hold them -- >> yes, absolutely. >> you'll hold them responsible. >> and they were not there. they weren't on satin island for two, three days. two, three days. >> i just don't understand why there's such a delay from the red cross in every storm. >> yeah. >> because it's like our needs -- now, we say give to aher americares. so you're looking over their shoulder. >> yes. there was a lady on all the tv shows who was crying to me and
saying, i'm going to die. the next day i went back to her, and we had gotten food to her, clothing to her, and she said, "i feel better. i'm going to start rebuilding." there are scenes of horror, and then there are scenes of some growth. and i try to look at the optimistic part in this terrible tragedy. >> mark. >> senator, as a former house member, you get constituent service. thank you for working so hard for the whole state. >> it's my old district. the rockaways, fire, because the pumping system failed. so it just spread. and there's like a four-block area, it looks like dresden with just the brick chimneys standing back. >> let me move you to the fiscal cliff, you get the dynamics of the house. you've commented a lot on speaker boehner throughout this process. what's your best sense, based on what the speaker said since the election, the senate seems ready to compromise. what's your best sense of the dynamics that speaker boehner is operating under now? >> the house wants to -- boehner wants to compromise. that's why he gave that speech. you know, boehner's a mainstream
conservative. but he's a scarborough conservative. >> you've just insulted the speaker of the house, but go ahead. >> i considered it a compliment. in any case, so he does. and i think it's going to help because the hard right is chastened in a lot of ways. democracy works in its slow, grinding way. all these tea party guys went home. they didn't complain on the same platform they campaigned in 2010. oh, no, i'm for this, for that, i'm not for cutting this or that. so first i think they're going to be less hard-nosed. will grover norquist and his group? no. and that's why yesterday what we really need is some counterbalance in the republican party. we need the business leadership of this country to say, come to a compromise, and it means revenues, not fake revenues, you know, this idea that if you cut taxes, you gain revenues. they call it dynamic scoring. cbo put out another report yesterday which showed it doesn't work.
i called it rumplestiltskin economics, the guy that turned straw into gold, it doesn't work. but bolster these guys. and the business community leaders, conservative leaders of businesses worried about the fiscal cliff have said to me, i'm willing to have my rates even go up if i know it's part of a big package that reduces the deficit. >> that there's spending cuts on the other side. >> yes. >> and that's key to the deal. >> the election, what did it say? you elected a republican house, and what is their number one watch word, 2010 and even throughout? cut spending. you elected a democratic senate, a handsome victory for obama. what was our major platform? the wealthy should pay a little more and there should be new revenues. just marry the two. and the trick will be, if speaker boehner's instincts to preserve the republican party and preserve the nation in a certain sense, will prevail over the hard right. he needs some help. >> leigh. >> senator, what do you make of wall street's support of obama which, of course, they all, you
know, went to romney, and now they're in a position where all these hedge fund managers, the banking ceos, they have to now come to terms with someone who they to terms with someone who they vilified for the past few years. >> there's a mutual interest to get together. i wouldn't be surprised -- do you know what would be great glue? this issue. most of the people on wall street are t not too far away from the president on the position on fiscal cliff. cut spending but raise revenues. they're willing to raise revenues. not everybody but most everybody i talked to. and i wouldn't be surprised if the president invites 50 business leaders, business round-table types to the white house and says, let's work together to make this happen. then they're doing something significant. it's not one of these things for show which they have come to resent. and they have a common ground. and it also says, you can do some good for the -- you can do some good for the country, which i think our hedge fund and wall street people would like. >> so, senator, you've correctly, i think, identified the dynamic tons republican side
and why they're more likely to give ground. talk about the dynamics on the democratic side. democrats feeling pretty -- feeling their oats right now but in order to do a grand bargain. so talk about that, is your -- are your people on the senate side and on the house side ready to accept restraints on medicare, medicaid, social security, all that stuff? >> let me divide those. i think on social security you're going to find more resistance. it's not part of the deficit. if you were to increase revenues in social security or decrease cost, that would not go into deficit reduction. there were 29 democrats. i was one of them, who signed a letter saying do it but do it separately and later. it's not as immediate as the crisis of medicare and medicaid. on medicare and medicaid, yes, we have to change the way it works but without changing the fundamentals. what i like to say about medicare is, it gives excellent health care highly and efficiently. the trick is to get rid of all of these inefficiencies which
everyone who goes through the system, every one of us knows and still preserve the basic system. i think we're willing to do that. will some people howl when that happens, yes, but we have to do it. i think we're prepared to do it. i'll tell you, the president is clearly prepared to do it. i think in today's speech you're going to hear him take leadership, reach out in a bipartisan way. i think he's going stick to his position on the 39-6 and on the revenues. but at the same time say we've got to work together and lead my party. >> the 39-6, you're talking about the bush tax rates. >> yes. >> all right. thank you so much, senator. >> great. >> good luck. >> let's hope it happens. >> please let the people at staten island, everyone effected in this storm, that our thoughts and prayers are with them. please let us know how things are going. keep us updated and let our people now how we can help. a little change of pace now.
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and what you -- [ applause ] >> good friday morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. as you take a live look at new york city, back with us onset, jo john, in washington, d.c., andrea mitchell. here we are five years later. very emotional moment for a president who has endured five years of the highest highs and the lowest lows in politics. this has to be one of the most special moments for the man. >> undoubtedly. and, you know, it will be -- you think about the significance of him winning the first time, obviously, an historic moment. but in a lot of ways, you know, if he had lost on tuesday night, there would have been a lot of people who kind of con signed that victory to an accident. >> it would have been an aberration of history. >> so almost re-election means, you know, as much, maybe in some
ways more than the first time. you know, he's not a guy given to public displays of emotion. back in 2008 on the day before election day when his grandmother died, he teared up in north carolina. i think it was the first time anybody had seen him publicly tear up. on the last day of this campaign in iowa, i was with him again, again he teared up. it was an emotional moment. these are rare things of barack obama, to be that out front with his emotion. and it tells you something about how deeply this whole thing has effected him and i think, you know, the sense of his -- of the history sets heavier on his shoulders than he allows himself to show. in these moments he's letting it show through. >> no doubt about it. we can talk about what a loss would have been for the history books. but, first, there has been a pattern over the past 20 years in american politics for a
president to be elected and the opposition to immediately dry to delegitimize him. it began with bill clinton in 1992. it followed with george w. bush in 2000. and it began anew for the next democratic president, barack obama, in 2008. the hatred, it was constant, just as it was for his predecessors, but really that must be what makes this re-election, this convincing re-election, seem to sweet for this president and the millions who voted for him. >> yeah. and we saw from the results on tuesday that the demonization and the infection that you just alluded to that has so crippled mch of our politics both in the cities and the towns that we live in, as well as obviously in the congress, has not really overtaken the entire process. barack obama was re-elected. and we have been told repeatedly
in print and on these programs that this particular president is very difficult to access emotionally, that he is reserved, that he is withdrawn. you saw there in that clip, the president of the united states tearing up before a group of people who have spent an enormous amount of time helping him get re-elected. and it just points to the fact that the president at the end of the day, while president of the united states is a human being, and he realizes quite well, more than any of us would ever realize, that the end of his trip, his electoral trip, summons the beginnings. i think that's what brings the tears. his journey, historic as it is, legendary as it is, the first black president of the united states of america, traveled country, from coast to coast, state of state, small town, big city, tremendous crowds initially in 2008.
again, run for re-election this year in a time when the country seemed so polarized, so beset with problems and yet he stood there and it all must have washed over him, clearly in the past couple of weeks, the exhaustion, the gratitude toward those who work for him. the gratitude toward people who vote for him. the success that most americans, all americans, i would hope, wish for him. it's understandable why there were tears in his eyes. >> about half the country voted against him. and yet his victory was overwhelming when it came to the swing states, came to the electoral college. but he has to certainly look back on history. he's a man who reads history and just looks at recent history, andrea, to remember all the presidents who won re-election in our lifetime. in 1972, richard nixon, of course, follow that up what
watergate. in 1994, ronald reagan, two years later, faced iran-contra. 1996, bill clinton, three years later faced impeachment. in 2004, george w. bush who, of course, the next year faced katrina. and a collection of disasters. how does the president keep his head down, not be swept away by the moment? >> this is so sobering. this isn't a grand historical vision or a legacy moment, because for him the reality is going to be around 1:00 today when he comes out and says what he would do about the fiscal cliff. we can all laugh about the term. i as much as any of you, but the reality is really grim. when i started going through the numbers yesterday of just what taxpayers -- ordinary taxpayers are going to face, i had no idea that it wassen just the bush tax cuts, even though i follow this pretty closely, it's the
alternative minimum tax hitting, of all people, the most people effected by the amt kicking in if congress were to let it happen. they will blink at the last moment. the most people of any state live in new jersey who are the middle income people, people who make $75,000 a year and have two children will have to pay $4,000 more, according to the irs and all of the tax studies. and the other thing about that is if they don't blink and if they let it go until january 1st or 2nd and then try to fix it, the irs says they -- it can't be fixed in time for people to get their refunds in march or april because it will take so many months to unwind this. so not to be filling cold water on the grand legacy arguments, but the reality of what this man faces, of what we as a country face, is so sobering that i think that the emotion that he felt was in the moment, being in chicago, surrounded by those
young people. i've been in the headquarters, you have. you've seen that when you first walk in it looks like an insurance company, what they created. but really, what they did was filled with passion. we just didn't see it that much. >> the congressional budget office actually came out with a report that talked about the seriousness of the crisis we face, that unemployment will spike to 9.1% if this fiscal cliff is not averted. and we'll go back into a recession. house speaker john boehner yesterday remained steadfast in his opposition to raising taxes. but for the first time seemed optimistic about a deal. take a look. >> i remain optimistic that we're going to be able to find common ground to avoid this fiscal cliff and find a way to work together. >> be by when, by january 1st? >> i would hope so. i don't -- >> the president is talking about specific increases. he campaigned on specific increases in tax rates from 35% to 39% for those making more
than $250,000. so, is that on the table right now? >> raising taxes on small businesspeople is the wrong prescription given where our economy is. >> is it on the table to talk about, the wealthier americans pitch in here? >> raising tax rates is unacceptable and, frankly, it couldn't even pass the house. >> you will talk about it even if you think it's the wrong approach, you will talk about it? >> of course we'll talk about it. we we talk about all kinds of things we may disagree on. i'm the most reasonable, responsible person here in washington. the president knows this. he knows that he and i can work together. the election is over. now it's time to get to work. >> and to prove his point, listen to what he had to say about the repeal of the president's health care plan, which really has been the goal. it really has. it's been the goal. it's been the holy grail of conservatives over the past two years. listen to what he said when
asked whether he would keep trying to repeal obama care. >> well, i think the election changes that. it's pretty clear that president was re-elected. obama care is the law of the land. >> but you won't be spending the time next year trying to repeal obama care? >> there certainly may be parts of it that we believe need to be changed. we may do that. no decisions at this point. >> okay. so -- >> it's a new era. >> it's a new era. by the way, first of all, it is a new era. it's okay to call it obamacare, right, since the president said he's proud of it, so i can do that without people on the left saying that i'm racist. >> right. >> you're allowed. >> hate all democrats. >> i grant you -- >> you remember well what president reagan used to say about reaganomics. they stopped calling it reaganomics when it started working. >> if the president says it's okay to call it obamacare, that's a lot easier than the
affordable health act. what do you take from everything that you heard from mr. boehner, speaker boehner? >> i take, you know, that you can plip around what andrea said and turn it on its head. it's a huge challenge, the fiscal cliff, for president obama but also a huge opportunity. if you think about we were talking about legacy before. what a hinge this re-election is. you know, if he had lost, in a very practical way, if he had lost the republicans probably would have repealed obamacare, his great achievement would have been reduced to rubble. >> but john meacham, the republicans regained the whatter jo i the, th jority. they regained the mar jority running against the bailout, running against tax increases, running against all the things that the president ran for. this should not enrage anybody. this is divided government. >> yeah. >> this is a genius of james madison. this is the genius of our constitution. this is the genius of our founding fathers. it frustrates republicans when democrats do it and it
frustrates democrats when republicans do it. we're going to have to figure out how to work to the. and i do believe the president and john boehner will more likely to do that in the second term than the first. >> yes. and in a divided government you are really talking about two, three, maybe four votes where you're giving the other side the benefit of the doubt. we're not talking about some kind of, you know, brookings institution kingdom of god, warren rugman is going to come and say, all right, we're all going to get along. you know, the rodney king doctrine is not a plikable here. we're talking about a couple of votes. and one is clearly -- >> by the way, do you talk about the rodney king doctrine in the new jefferson book? >> i do. >> i'm buying it. >> he helped draft it. he used his quill pen on that. so, you know, historically, practically, you need the vote on some kind of bargain real
quick on the lame duck. you're going to need to it make sure you ratify that deal going forward. and then you're going to need it on a couple of things that you wanted, if you're president, that you want to invest on, right? whether it's education or whatever it is. you're not going to get a whole lot more. there's not going to be a lot of 60% votes here where democrats and republicans are coming together. and so practically the president has a couple of chances here where he can pull this together, use this kind of historical feeling, which is very ever ves sent. it will stay us for a long time if you've got a district to run in in 23 months. >> right. it's leading. >> not long. it's fleeting. it's such a tiny moment. >> the feeling past in about 24 hours. >> i was thinking thursday lunch. >> thursday lunch, exactly. when we come back, bloomberg business week's josh green on why he says obama's second term will be nothing like the last
four years. also, chief of nationalme nationalmemo.com, joe conason is here. and then the man who played james bond in 13 film, sir roger moore joins us onset. bill? >> joe, finally for once i have all good news for residents on the east coast. still recovering from the two big storms and especially sandy. this is a really last cold morning for people out there in the area. impact windchills are in the low 30s. heading to the 50s this afternoon. look at the extended forecast. this is going to be an all hands on deck clean-up weekend throughout the region with temperatures, especially on sunday, look at that, beautiful sunshine and 65 degrees. so we're in a pattern change. all the stormy weather on the east is exiting. warm air in the middle of the country is going to head east this weekend. look at the west coast. that's where all the storm where weather is now. temperatures have plunged. we have numerous area with rain and snow showers, especially heading through california, even l.a. has a chance of light rain later on today. the snow, that's going to be all
mountain that and the higher elevations of utah and idaho. that's a travel trouble spot today, especially up there in montana where they're having a history making blizzard. weekend forecast, watch the temperatures soar on the eastern seaboard. beautiful anywhere in the southeast. texas still looks good. the cold front and all that chilly air is going to spill into the middle of country, especially as we go into sunday. look at denver, a high of only 28 degrees. because of that clash of that cold air and the warm air, we're going to see strong thunderstorms possible on sunday from dallas to oklahoma city to arkansas. as we go into areases of kansas and missouri. the good news is no more major storms that are going to do any significant damage any time soon. back to typical fall weather across the country. you're looking at times square, new york city. and let's jump a little bit. the arch in st. louis. beautiful day today.
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♪ what republicans need to learn is how do we speak to all americans? you know, not just the people who look like us and act like us, but how do we speak to all americans? >> hey, welcome back to "morning joe." >> wait a second. we've got to speak to people who don't look like us? only if you want to win elections in the 21st acceptry. >> beyond the cincinnati
metroplex. >> with us now is editor of nationalmem do.com, joe conason, and washington senior correspondent from bloomberg business week, josh green. josh's cover story is on the new issue of magazine of why president obama holds all the cards in the second term. he writes in part, at first glance, the results of the 2012 election look like a return to the status quo, but don't be fooled. the political dynamic of the next four years will be almost exactly the opposite of the last four. during obama's first term, particularly in the last two years, the republican party had most of the leverage. the gop's willingness to reject stimulus, default on the debt, and sabotage the nation's credit rating, threats that shook financial markets often, and put the white house at the mercy of the opposition. and obama's second term, leverage will shift to the democrats on almost every issue of importance, and that shift has already begun. and we finally have something to disagree with here on "morning joe" this morning.
first of all, we've got a comment on this exceedingly grim cover story. tell me, is there also something in here where you guys say that we're going to overturn the 22nd amendment and allow the president to serve late into his 90s, josh? >> no, i think our art director is anticipating a really rocky four years for president obama. that's how he's going to look. >> look at this. this looks like a rocky 40 years for this guy. >> he's like 92 in that picture. what is that? >> do we have one for romney, as well? oh, my lord. >> the romney won looks like he's been sleeping in an alley for four years. >> holy cow. okay. well, so let's get to the substance. i'm just going to turn this over right here so it doesn't distract me. but you say the president has all the cards. he's holding all the cards and yet he's a lame duck president
and the republicans, constitution constitutionally, at least, still hold the checkbook. >> well, my argument is this. if you look at the major struggle for obama in the last two years, it was the struggle for revenue. he wasn't able to end the bush tax cuts. he didn't get the buffett rule, he didn't cut any tax loopholes. republicans have the power to deny him that, and they did. if you look ahead to the january 1st, the bush tax cuts expire, you have the fiscal cli. obama can get that refrigerator knew by doing nothing at all, letting them expire. in the next couple of years he's negotiating from a position of strength. that changes really the overall dynamic in congress and in washington. >> joe conason, do you agree with that? >> i do agree with that, simply because of that one sort of tension point over the bush tax cuts. if the republicans don't come to the table seriously, a little more seriously than speaker boehner has done so far, then they're going to face the thing
that they've been trying to prevent ever since the bush tax cuts were passed, which is to have them sunset. if they do, they have to answer to their constituency, and if they don't, you know, then they will be in better shape with the broader electorate, i think, which wants something done. they want a compromise. that's clear. >> i'm just throwing these softballs up. do you agree that the president is holding all the cards? because i don't. let's go. do you agree? >> i don't agree the president is holding all the cards. we discussed earlier today. because of the sweep of what happened on tuesday -- >> in the senate. >> in the senate. the total setback for republicans across the board, it's clear the republicans are chastened in a way that none of us expected them to be even those of us who thought obama would win didn't know they would have their bell wrung to this extent. i still think because of the internal dynamics of the republican caucus, it's still very tricky. i not like president obama is going to be able to snap his
fingers and get what he wants. i'm not saying that's what josh is saying, but there's no question he's in a better position today than he was six months ago or that he was a summer ago when they were battling over the debt ceiling. i think that's unquestionable. >> he's certainly got the leverage on the bush tax cuts. he said before, if i do nothing, they expire. >> it's true. it's a position of power. if we do -- this isn't going to happen, but if we do go over the fiscal cliff, it will be a different story. as mark said before, then we will be in a position of having to negotiate what happens to the debt ceiling. then it's a whole different story. starting from a position of power. >> if the republicans do nothing, mark, then, of course, the the debt ceiling doesn't get raised. >> there's the other big do nothing issue which is the defense cuts, which no one in the national security establishment thinks our manageable, the president doesn't want them to happen. those sequestered cuts, i think give the president even more leverage. >> do republicans fear that much more than the president? >> i think secretary panetta has made it clear that he said
senator cane, the cuts are not possible. not only because of what they might do to national security but they're destabilizing and they don't allow planning. you take a lot of money out of the economy with those all defense jobs out of the country. >> josh, do you think this president is going to have a successful a second term as bill clinton did on welfare reform, balancing the budget, balancing it four years in a row? do you think we're going see that type of second term? >> i think it's a little early to say that. i think there's certainty the possible for that. look, as i write in the piece, he's got leverage on the fiscal cliff. i think there's good reason to think that a grand bargain is possible. it's certainly more likely than it was a year ago. we're closer now. the conditions are there for that to happen. so if he were to cap off his second term with historic tax and entitlement reform that would be a big deal. another thing, we're seeing will this already, the conditions have been established for real immigration reform. we had sean hannity of all
people had an thinking that there should be a path to citizenship. i think that gets done second term. if you look at that you assume the economy is going to recover fairly strongly over the next four years. he may be gray andingly and old on our cover but he can be a real successful two-term president. >> the big question on the second term is will the democrats and the senate actually pass a budget. >> i make no predictions on that one. >> yeah, of course not. do nothing. the do nothing democratic senate on budget issues. so speaking of bill clinton, it was a successful election for the president. >> the former president. >> the former president. >> and the president. >> yeah, the former prez. he gave his all. >> well, you know, after years of a frosty relationship, i think the obama folks realized, actually quite early in this cycle, that they needed his help. >> yeah.
>> they came to him. they came to new york and had a meeting with him. including axelrod and others at the top of the campaign, months ago, and engaged him and engaged with him in a serious way. he worked his tail off. i was with him in ohio and pennsylvania several times the last few weeks, and, you know, people still treat him in that rock star way. they come out and see him. i'm sure these guys have seen the same thing. 17,000 people come to a gym in philly and fill it up and they're still around the block in the freezing cold. that's what he did for the president. >> we were -- mark and i were down at the one of the two joint appearances between obama and clinton, manassas, virginia, last saturday night. 25, 27,000 people on a very cold night out there to see the two of them. president clinton was -- could barely speak, but was eventually found his voice and was kind of on fire. it was great. and the thing that was so different, again, we were there
four years ago in florida where the body language between two guys was horrible. like president obama watched clinton speak as if he was being endorsed by the mayor of kissimmee. this time the warmth was there. they're not in love with each other but there's a warmth between the two of them there. the one thing that caught both of us as we walked out, at the end of the event they played fleetwood mac "don't stop thinking about tomorrow" which sounds like a trivial thing but four years ago they would have never have done that for clinton, that the exit music would have been his music and not obama music. it was just this little symbolic thing that told you how much distance they traveled between over the coast of this last four years. >> let me say for the record i would love to be endorsed by the mayor of kissimmee. and you were, and you are probably. clinton said, one of his favorite lines on the speech that he was giving at the end is i was much more enthusiastic, i'm far more enthusiastic this time than i was last time. there's no question that was true.
>> that's an understatement. >> but then he would -- but he used the joke as -- and most people in the audiences didn't really get the joke that way, but he used the joke as a way of selling, i'll tell you why, and he did. and it was to folks clearly in ohio and pennsylvania extremely persuasive man. i was concerned when he went to pennsylvania at the end, why are they doing pennsylvania now. >> turned out he kind of wanted to do pennsylvania. he wrapped up in scranton which is where hillary's family is fro fr. it was compelling. >> and again, even with their inside numbers, they weren't taking any chances in pennsylvania. >> no. >> around nailed down every last thing they could. so, lee, how excited would the business community be if president obama decided to use bill clinton as outreach director to wall street? >> i think everybody -- i think they would be excited. they're looking for anybody else right now. >> yeah. >> no, but i think they will come together. but i think that would be a great -- i think they would really embrace that. >> josh, let me ask you to play a little cabinet roulette.
what's your sense of what happens at state and treasury in this second obama term? >> state is tough for me. i have a hard time seeing john kerry get the job he wants and replacing hillary clinton because that would open up a senate seat and presumably scott brown of massachusetts would slide in. i think the interesting one is treasury. jack lew obviously is a good candidate. one thing bouncing around the sphere is mitt romney who has experience there. but, you know, i think it's going to be hard to -- hard to see where the chips fall. obviously you want someone with a bit of outreach to wall street, but, you know, someone like a tony james, a private equity executive who is tied with the democrat, it's hard to see after this race and mitt romney having been the opponent, a guy like that fitting in. certainly somebody -- >> you need to head it where do you go in the blogosphere, i think. be careful. >> okay. okay. yeah. well, i'm not -- i'm not predicting romney but he's one
of the most interesting names out there. but certainly somebody -- another serious name who could deal with fiscal cliff. >> that would be a great man. >> the state thing is interesting because as josh says, you know, the the kerry thing is problematic for the reasons he states. and susan rice who seemed to have the inside trag on that because of the benghazi situation would be a very difficult confirmation now because of the things she said, she would get hammered by republican it is they tried to get her through. they might still try to do it but it does open up the possibility of reaching out to somebody else, maybe a republican like chuck hagel, given the president now wanting to go back to seeming b bipartisan, looking for a republican. >> chuck hagel would be a great choice as well. fast forward four years. quickly, yesterday we had "time" magazine here, he had hillary as the first person talking about running in 2016. i'm getting word from florida jeb is already cranking up his 2016 presidential campaign. 25 years later, is the new way
forward and the new century? >> bush and clinton. >> bush v. clinton? >> the families are pretty close these days. >> right. >> president actually does -- president clinton does appearances with president bush. and i saw one. it was actually fun. they had a tough debate over health care. it was almost like a huge flashback in front of a bunch of corporate executives. that's not unimage nabl. i would say the chances of hillary runing are increasing. my sense of what people think who are on the inside is that it's above 50% now. >> wow. all right, joe. thank you so much. it's always great to see you. josh green, thank you, as well. your cover story with that extraordinarily disturbing cover is the new issue of "blook berg business week" and it is on newsstands now. when we come back, shaken, not stirred. sir roger moore is here with a look back on 50 years on bond,
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♪ yes, sir. >> the lady will have a bacardi on the rocks. >> for the gentleman, vodka martini, shaken, not stirred. >> touche. >> commander james bond recruited to the british secret service from the royal navy, licensed to kill and has done so on numerous occasions. many lady friends, but married only once. wife killed -- >> all right. you've made your point. >> you're sensitive, mr. bond. >> about certain things, yes. >> that was sir roger moore as james bond, 1977 film "the spy who loved me." moore starred in seven bond films from the 1970s to the mid '80s. and my dad took me to every one of them. did you see them all? >> every one.
every one. >> this is exciting. this year the bond franchise celebrates its 50th anniversary with its 23rd movie "sky fall" opening t in the u.s. today. to mark the anniversary, sir roger moore is out with a new book "bond on bond" reflections on 50 years in james bond movies. he joins us now. it's great having you here. >> it's absolutely wonderful to be here. >> you were bond '73-'85. you and i agree we love these films. we disagree about who the best bond was. i say you. you say who? >> daniel craig. >> really? >> extraordinary. if i had another two months to write the book, i would have seen "sky fall." >> right. >> and of saying sean was the best bond, i would say daniel craig was the best bond. >> you've shifted from sean connery? >> i'm afraid so.
sean cheats at golf. >> he cheats at golf. >> he and the former president has much in common. >> the current one, too. >> probably the current one. we don't know. so it's a national security secret. so 1973 you become bond, and what a movie to start with. "live and let die". what was it like when you got the call, i guess, from your agent saying they want you to be bond? >> actually was the producers who called me and said, we decided that we will go with you because you work cheaper than anybody else. >> whatever works. whatever works. and what was it like when you went down to new orleans and you filmed "live and let die"? >> i love new orleans. it was really great, and i had a couple of friends i knew already. one was in the film, bob dix,
richard dix's son. if your father took you the first bond probably his grandmother went to see richard dix, who was a big, big star. he had twin son, bob being one of them. he was a fellow that went into the -- >> the music starts right after? >> it was just wild. >> it was. it was crazy. and boat jumps. my dad did. you got my dad. my dad watched all the bond movies and dragged us there from our earliest age. >> '73-'85, how many movies? >> seven. >> which was your favorite? >> you showed a clip of it, "the spy who loved me." >> why? >> it was the first time i worked with lewis gilbert. i discovered exactly the same sense of hue momor that i do, disrespectful but jolly. the villain was a good guy, nice
man. bob was very e barbara was very easy to look at. >> who was your favorite bond girl? >> my wife, kristina. >> good answer. that's how bond survived to live. >> fielded that question before. you can tell he's had that question. >> my favorite bond girl question is probably the most asked question. >> is it really? >> davey wallings, who was -- you probably saw him in america, david wallings, english comedian. he came down to monaco to an interview for "gentleman's gq." he said i've got a question. was christopher lee really the official hangman in nuremberg. he was, he was the sister of her.
>> wow. so the book covers lots of different aspects of bond, bond girls, bond cars. but bond gadgets. "sky fall" has a lot of gadgets. if you look at the films you did, those gadgets team a little retro. >> most of them didn't work. not for real. and i think the magnetic watch was my favorite. undoing madeleine's dress, zip. it didn't work so there was a propman under her skirt pulling a wire. he promised he would keep his eyes shut. 29 takes later he was saying, i didn't think that would went right, either. >> need to do it again. >> i've got to read from this, the introduction on "bond on bond." in october 1972 i reported for duty as a third actor to play james bond. can it really be 40 years ago? back then i could leap out of a chair without fear of my knees cracking, could chew on a toffee
without fear of losing a filling, or worse, still a tooth. could admire my long flowing locks of lar. as i sooned in front of the mirror proudly admired my bronzed, slim torso. ah, yes, with the flex of my toned muscles and a twitch of the old eyebrow, i set pulses racing across the world, they say. these days, it's my pacemaker that keeps my pulse racing and, as for my other mentioned attributes, well, i still have my memories. and some incredible memories. >> some of them are very differe difficult a to call up. '73 to '85, which is quite none any because i am 85. i turned 85 about three weeks, four weeks ago. >> oh, my gosh. >> but i came here to pubably size a book when i was 89.
i remember this -- 79. and the immigration official said, you know, your fingerpr t fingerprint, rog, you won't have to do that next year. i said, why not. he said, you will be 80. i said, you can't be a terrorist when you're 80? no, your fingerprints change when you're 80. >> wow. >> so there you go. >> so there you are. i told a friend here in new york about it. he said what happens when you're 80, people will say bless you. and two nights later i was speaking at the hudson society and somebody came up to me and said, how old are you? i said 79. they said, bless you. i said, i'm not ever 80 yet. >> still have a week left. something to look forward to, no fingerprints. i love it. the book is "bond on bond, reflections on 50 years of james bond movies." sir roger moore, thank you so
much. >> and you sign them at barnes and noble. >> tonight. >> he's going to be at the union square barnes and noble here in new york city tonight at 6:00 p.m. for a signing. be there. business before the bell is next. [ male announcer ] what can you experience in a seat? inspiration. great power. iconic design. exhilarating performance. [ race announcer ] audi once again has created le mans history! [ male announcer ] and once in a great while...
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could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here. welcome back to "morning joe". time for business before the bell. what's your favorite bond film? >> "for your eyes only." i like roger moore better than sean connery. i'm not afraid to admit it. i don't know everybody know who the others are. >> he seems surly this morning. >> what's going on?
>> come on, man. >> you know why? my hokie's threw it away last night against florida state. could have salvaged our season. i thought you were going to poke me on that. i was ready to go. >> you so have that game in your sweaty little hands and it just slipped right through. it's heartbreaking for this north florida guy to see. thank you for bringing it up though. >> you're welcome. anything for you. >> what's happening with the markets today? >> another down day. we've had a good sell-off the last couple of days. some people talk about europe but everybody that we talked to is like, listen, there's a lot of concern about what's going to happen on 12-31-12. i know some people say it's not a cliff. paul krugman is slamming that idea as well. it's going to be a slow roll but it's going to hit people, spending, the market knows when people lose their jobs their taxes go up. less money into the economy which means earnings go down which means stock goes down. all pretty cut and dry. >> do you know who fell off a
cliff? george lessenby. >> what happened to him? >> he was in one bond film. what happened to him, mark? >> i didn't quite make it. >> i can see that. >> well, you weren't paying attention. i said roger moore. >> you said that. >> you are the man with the -- >> ambiguous. >> i sort of don't understand any other point of view. >> you were just sucking up though. >> you were sucking up. i'm freaking out man. he's, he's on my back about providing for his little girl. hey don't worry. e-trade's got a killer investing dashboard. everything is on one page. i'm watching you. oh yeah? well i'm watching you, watching him. [ male announcer ] try the e-trade 360 investing dashboard.
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♪ what's this stance? >> i don't know. >> e-mail from fox, by the way. >> i got one, too. >> all right. so anyway, welcome back. it's time to talk about what we learned today. what did you learn? >> roger moore has switched from thinking sean connery is the best bond to thinking daniel craig is the best bond. >> you saw "sky fall" last night. >> which is why he switched. >> what did you learn? >> i learned that roger moore is very charming and very nice guy. i also learned that i think we're in for some compromise. >> good. >> i think we're in a era of compromi compromise. >> i think so. >> unanimity i