tv The Cycle MSNBC April 20, 2015 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT
the boston marathon is under way as a jury readies to sentence marathon bomber dzhokhar tsarnaev. >> and there they go. >> the official figure is 30,251 men and women picked up their bib numbers. >> at this stage of the 119th boston marathon the women's leader is an american and men's leader is an american. >> side by side 26.2 miles. >> nothing left. 2:24.55, what a finish down boylston street.
the man comes back to achieve greatness again. 2:09.17, it's official he's done it. two years ago such a feeling of loss and today such a feeling of gain. >> indeed i'm tour'e two years ago the deadly bombing just happened and two years later this rain and 30,000 runners and 1 million spectators out in the streets for the 119th running of the great boston marathon. 26.2 miles and no major security concerns. the elite runners have also crossed the finish line where the bombs erupted two years ago, desisa completed his victory on boil boyleston street and caroline rotich man, that's
facht. most remaining runners will finish over the next three hours and jurors are back in federal court tomorrow starting the penalty phase for the convicted 2013 marathon bomber. this is the same jury that found tsarnaev guilty on all 30 counts including 17 that carry the death penalty. they'll decide between deng and life in prison without the possibility of parole. the process is expected to last into may as victim impact states will be read in court. the parents of youngest victim 8-year-old martin richards say they don't want the drag out eye motional saga that will accompany an execution. let's start with adam reiss. what's security been like today. >> reporter: heavy security all day long in particular along the route but here at the finish line, all along the route there were dogs and canine dogs and checkpoints and police about the last four blocks up to the finish line.
they were about a million people along the route watching these 30,000 runners go for that coveted olive wreath. thousands continue to come through the finish line getting blankets and food. one group in particular 25 victims of the bombing, part of a group called 4/15 strong. they ran today a real triumph over tragedy. david childs from seattle with his second marathon. how was it? >> it was great, adam from start to finish the crowd was fantastic. there was police guards everywhere i mean you just feel safe along the whole route. it was an awesome run. >> you weren't worried about injure security whether you were out on the route or as you came into the finish line? >> nothing like that. i felt totally safe the entire route. it was awesome. as always boston strong. >> absolutely. tomorrow we head back to court for the sentencing phase, the
penalty phase for dzhokhar tsarnaev. the jury will determine whether or not he gets life in prison or the death penalty. tour'e? >> thanks for that. let's stay on boston with mike bell low, assistant metro editor covering all thingz boston for 22 years. this patriot's day, always a big deal in boston. but now after what happened to years ago, this day is more meaningful and more important. talk about the extra added significance it's taken on. today's marathon was about running. everyone talked about people along the route and some stayed away since the bombing saying they felt more secure and ready to come back. that was true from all along the 26 mile route into boston. we were wellesley, where some of the wellesley college people,
graduates were there screaming and holding signs and kissing the runners. we were in hopkinston where people were talking about getting ready for the race felt safe and secure. people also know it's changed forever because of the bombings that's there incredible intense security. it's a reality. it's a reality all along the route. they had all kinds of police officers along the route and special anti-drone technology and told people all along there, don't fly any drones and so there was really all kinds of police officers ready for anything thank god it was safe. >> it's pretty amazing to see how resilient and they come out stronger from everything they experienced. the security has changed listening just moemgts ago to one of the folks that ran in the marathon. they feel safe. they don't feel they should be concerned partly because of new safety measures and reminder in massachusetts of how important liberty is. how are the people there responding to the change in
security? >> i think people basically wanted the security not afraid to move around. near the finish line there are a lot of areas blocked off. there was checking of bags and other things but everything went on without a hitch. there were people who came here from as far away as oklahoma. people who had seen the oklahoma bombings 20 years ago, some other folks wanted to see history and wanted to be here for patriot's day and affirm the fact the marathon took place and took place in a safe environment. >> as this jury will consider whether or not to apply the death penalty, it's not just their personal opinions after the trial in the penalty phase, the obligation to apply several federal factors ee unanimous rated under law, a few that are relevant. grave risk of death to others in the crime, cruel or deprafed murder as opposed to say a murder that is in the heat of
fashion or in an emergency. the vulnerability of the victims here, we know of course that the horror of these child victims in this case and finally multiple killings mike under federal law, one aggravating factor that makes the death penalty more likely whether you didn't just kill a single individual but multiple. as you think about what this jury is going to see and you've been covering all of this what do you think of the aggravating factors and how that might come into play? >> the prosecution has laid out a detailed and sophisticated case all kinds of forensic evidence compelling eye witness testimony. that's going to continue with the death penalty phase, they are going to have more witnesses, we don't know who the witnesses are right now. it's going to be very detailed and emotional. we've already had statements as we said before from the richards family, other family saying they don't want the death penalty and want them to serve life in prison. there's a lot of evidence that the jury has to consider for this death penalty phase. it's going to be intense and
month-long and the defense is going to come up with their own witnesses trying to say that dzhokhar was a slave, was a basically fell victim to his brother tamerlan that he was the mastermind of this plot and dzhokhar was going along, he's a young child, a 19-year-old swept away in the jihad ferver implemented by tamerlan. >> another thing we're going to hear are victim impact statements they can't weigh in on what they want the penalty to be but they can talk about their experience and suffering as part of this. what impact do you expect to have those statements to have as they hear the stories? >> i think it's going to be emotional. during the trial, some of the jurors cried very teary eyed when we heard the richard family testimony. i think it's going to have an impact. the question is, can you get a jury to vote for the death penalty. can it be unanimous?
there are all kinds of different folks on that jury. and it's going to be a tough job to go through that evidence. they already heard a lot of evidence already from the prosecution phase. now this death penalty phase, they are going to be bombarded with even more. would it be overload? that's a good question. >> thank you for your time. next, hot on the trail, hillary clinton's first campaign day in new hampshire focuses on the economy of course but some are raising new questions about her foundation's money situation. plus hundreds are feared dead as a boat capsizes on the mediterranean. we'll get the latest from that search and recovery effort. amid protests and calls for answer in 20 minutes, baltimore police are expected to speak to media about the death of a maryland man who's neck was partially severed in police custody. we'll bring you that news conference live. it is monday, april 20th. shopping online... ...is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers carpenters and even piano tuners... were just as simple? thanks to angie's list now it is.
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right now hillary clinton is on her first 2016 campaign trip to all important new hampshire after having come from high with a. it's a two-day swing. it stops on the concord tomorrow and today's focus is on the economy. moments ago clinton wrapped up a tour and round table discussion there at a small family run business. msnbc's alex seitz wald is there on the trail. how did the debut go so far? >> reporter: so far so good. new hampshire has always been good to the clinton, it rescued bill clinton and again hillary clinton in 2008 and new hampshire democrats tell me it's still very much clinton country.
she stopped at a coffee shop and came to this small business and brought in her own father's experience. >> small business is the back bone of the american economy. i saw there's a machine that you just bought that's printing on all kinds of material and i'm thinking back to those years in my father's small print plant. he made a very good living because of his hard work. >> reporter: and again, she wants to emphasize the economy here. she laid out in iowa last week the four big fights of her campaign, the first one is the economy and that's the focus of this trip. tomorrow she heads to a community college in concord where she'll emphasize that. vocational training can be an important part of building an economy in an area. but really right now this is all about trying to reintroduce her to voters and small intimate events. she has a chance to meet with people outside the big rallies that will come later in may. >> alex thank you so much.
appreciate it. and hillary clinton isn't the only one making an early play for the granite state. more than a dozen republican hopefuls held a summit there over the weekend and instead of going after each other, they focused their attack squarely on clinton. >> hillary clinton must not be president of the united states. >> we want new leadership to change the page and turn around. the democratic version of this i'm pretty sure is hillary clinton having a conversation with a chipotle clerk. >> i think her dereliction of duty and not doing her job and providing security for our forces should forever preclude her from holding our office. >> and a new poll has jeb bush right now leading republicans, of course this is a very early stage in the campaign. after that only scott walker and rand paul and marco rubio are getting double digit support at
this point. let's bring in perry bacon, how is it going? >> good to see you. >> let's start with this book. that is coming out called clinton cash. a note to our viewers, nbc hasn't gotten a hold of the book or confirmed what's in it. hillary clinton was essentially taking cash and giving favors -- taking cash through the foundation and giving favors outs because of that cash. is this the argument we're likely to see throughout the campaign from whoever the republicans are? >> i don't know. it depends on how serious it is. the actual -- what they are accusing of is fairly serious compared to e-mails and the idea being hillary clinton changed behavior in the state department in change for the money for the foundation. that's a serious allegation but something that right now is unconfirmed. i think it depends on proving that quidkind of quid proquo is hard
to do. i do think throughout this campaign you're going to hear republicans talk about the foundation and foreign donations, that's going to be an issue that will keep coming up over and over again. >> people are taking the measure of hillary clinton's policy positions now that the campaign is actually under way. as you know, perry and we often say in the cycle, if you want to get real you've got to get boring and i know you spent time -- >> we say that? >> who says that? >> i know you spent time with her book for a recent article. i read the majority and it is dry at times, hard choices but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a lot of important information. i want to read from your article about her foreign policy positions and politics. you write, obama's engagement towards controversial countries like iran and cuba is a dividing line. near the end of my tenure i recommended to president obama take another look at our embargo. referring to the u.s. policy on
cuba it wasn't achieving its goals and holding back our broader agenda across latin america. those are somewhat controversial positions but she's sticking by them. they might be called in a sim application more dofish or diplomatic and not exactly where she was in those debates in '07 versus the president. explain the thinking. >> what we're seeing this iran issue has become devicive where the negotiations and you've seen the informal agreement, i should say, you've seen a lot of democrats chuck schumer, the potential incoming leader of the senate democrats being reluctant to embrace this deal between iran and the u.s. but, you're seeing hillary clinton in her book she writes a chapter where in great detail she describes her role in the negotiations. she argues in fact. some of her work initiated the start of the negotiations and carried it through. once she left she's been fairly supportive of these investigations and earned people to give the president more time.
now she's in a place i would say to where it's going to be hard for her if this deal is -- for her to move away from this deal. she's in a place where she's been supportive of the president. jake sully van was meeting with iranians and very involved as well. this is a place where hillary clinton and the president are very close on the issue and it's a place where a lot of voters a lot of people are weary of this position. when the final deal comes out, it will be hard for hillary clinton to say she doesn't support it because she's been so supportive up until now. >> right now hillary clinton is the target if there's one thing all of these gop hopefuls have in common it's attacking hillary clinton but as you know perry, that can only last for so long to say hillary clinton cannot be president. first of all, that's not a strong enough argument at this point, second of all, they have to go against each other because there are a lot going to potentially be in this race. if you look at the cnn polling, it's still very tight, not a real front-runner as of yet. jeb bush leading at 17%. what do you see as being the big
deviceif difdy advicive issues it anything like the litmus test of immigration, obamacare and marriage equality. >> what i see as the issue, kind of the changing america, seemed like a divide. if you look the immigration where jeb bush and marco rubio are saying we want to be on side that says we're pro immigrant and want to see some kind of legalization potentially versus other candidates are not there yet. you're seeing in the gay rights fights, not just about gay marriage, freedom laws where the candidates were xds, who would attend a gay wedding, rick santorum said no marco rubio said yes. ted cruz would not answer the question. i thought he answered every question. he would not comment. they are trying to figure out most of the republican voters tend to be older and whiter and trying to figure out how do we deal with these issues that
involve is spannics and gay rights and african-americans, they want to make sure they don't take stands that hurt them in the general election but win the primary first. these issues are trapping them. you can tell they are not sure -- when jeb bush endorsed indiana law and then two days later last month flip flopped, that's the challenge. how do they deal with issues that go to democratic changes in the country. >> they don't want to take stands that hurt them in the general but when you have a field that's so crowded, you have no shout to be heard and that quite often leads to folks saying things like self-deportation because they are trying to get too the right of somebody else not in the race if the race had been a lot smaller. it seems almost inevitable that folks will say things that will hurt them in the general. >> i think the question is i think ben carson and mike huckabee and ted cruz are going to compete to see who can be the loudest to oppose gay marriage. they'll be competing for the conservative vote. i do think if i was watching --
my guess is scott walker and marco rubio and jeb bush one of those trio is likely to be the nominee. they are the leading candidates. >> big statement, perry. >> say again? >> big statement, not sure if it's a big statement or not. i would say that for those three people, they are carefully thinking about how do they talk about gay rights in a way that sounds inclusive and doesn't hurt them in the general election. they are focused on speaking carefully and cautiously. >> perry bacon, thank you so much. the latest on the capsized ship hundreds feared dead. why this incident is part of a growing problem. plus in just minutes we expect the baltimore police to brief on the death of that maryland man while in police custody, what scherr saying about the arrest and the death as the cycle continues. enter this world with a shout and we see no reason to stop. so cvs health is creating industry-leading programs and tools
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continuing to search for survivors and bodies in the med mediterranean mediterranean. the survivors telling officials hundreds of people, including women and children were locked below the deck when the ship heading to sicily from libya rolled. new video showing another boat running aground with survivors clinging to rafts there. two other ships carrying 400 migrants were rescued today by the italian coast guard. bill neely following all of this. what is going on here to connect the dots? what are we learning as well about the first ship? >> we've been waiting all day to see if anyone else was rescued from the initial first sinking and there's no word from officials, we've got just 28 people rescued from a boat that was carrying perhaps 700, perhaps even up to 900 people.
it was a 60-foot vessel and two decks above the water line and a hold which he said contained hundreds of people who had been locked in the hold by the people smugglers, an absolutely horrific situation. you can see there stills of another incident. those people are syrians. they were on a ship that sank off the greek island. three people were drowned there, pretty dramatic pictures of that as people tried to clammer onshore after the wooden ship broke up. only 90 people were rescued from that. this was a wave of migration. there was a meeting of foreign ministers today and there will be another meeting on thursday. but they are coming in for a great deal of condemnation from among others the secretary general of the united nations, there's been a heart felt plea
from the pope today asking them to do something quickly to help these people who seem to be on an unstoppable wave from north africa trying to get to europe for a better way of life. so far since this crisis began 18 months ago, we've had 5,000 deaths and many more are predicted as the summer approaches and much calmer waters usually at that time. this is a crisis that's ongoing and in fact two vessels are still being searched today. they sent out distress calls, one of them is thought to be carrying about 300 migrants it's a tragedy happening right now. >> heartbreaking, thank you so much for that report. turning back to washington you may think our presidents run the white house, well they don't. you may think lobbiest are the ultimate d.c. insiders they aren't. the ones who hold both distinctions are the white house resident's workers, butlers and chefs and so on.
they have been the fly on the wall during the most dramatic moments and subject of the new book. residents where they share the drama and sweet moments and never before heard stories of our first families. here is kate anderson grauer. i think it's a reminder that the first family is like so many other families go through ups and downs and fight, there's passion. apparently hillary clinton even craves chocolate cake late at night. >> what? that's relatable. >> after writing this book which first family sticks out as the most enjoyable and who is the most challenging? >> bush senior 41 and barbara bush were the most beloved president and first lady by far. i interviewed more than 50 butlers and maids and florists because they were just so kind. they would call you if someone passioned away in your family and always tell you to leave early. they would call down and say why
aren't you gone? you should go have dinner with your family. they were very relatable and cared about the staff. the most difficult i would say was probably nancy reagan, because she was a perfectionist. ronald reagan was loved. some of the staffers love the nancy because they knew what she wanted. if she said i want half a dozen roses in this vase on this table, you gave it to her, she was happy but sometimes hard to please. >> they become this large extended family and everything that happens to the first family happens to all of the folks who work in the white house. so how did the lewinsky incident and ensuing scandal impact the larger white house family? >> well as one florist told me when you're someone's domestic you know what's going on. and he was the one who overheard a big fight between hillary clinton and the president in the west sitting hall when he was going out to switch flowers out one day. a couple of butlers were gathered around the door. motioned him over and they were all listening in. it was a roller coaster for the
entire eight years they were in the white house because they had other scandals going on. dealing with white water. but some of the staff loved working for her. this head housekeeper especially had a close relationship with hillary clinton. and she said something funny to me about some suit that hillary clinton had that was a size 10 and she wanted it dyed a different color and it came back a size 2. and hillary clinton thought it was his tericcal she wasn't upset by it. it's the little small things -- >> human moments. >> the book gives us so many little moments that are different sometimes than people's perceptions, richard nixon is thought of by many as a somewhat dark personality. brooding, even. but you have this great photo of him after a late night bowling session, you point out -- there it is on the screen with -- >> look at the pants. >> worker from the kitchen, you explain who stayed up until 2:00 in the morning bowling with the
president. nixon put that bowling lane into the white house. how did that work out and what kind of permission slip did the president give that guy? >> well that was a pot washer in the kitchen, he was beloved, named frankie blair. the president wondered in frankie, would you like to bowl with me? they bowled until 2:00 in the morning. fran xi saidky said night wife will never believe i was out this late bowling with you. come with me and wrote a note to his wife explaining that he was indeed bowling with the president until 2:00 a.m. and another staffer told me there may have been a bottle of scotch involved as well. >> maybe. >> and nixons they knew people's names which i think is telling and also i think this gives a window into what it was like for these folks to work in the white house, stories about the temptations hanging out with the african-american butlers before dinners because they felt more comfortable with them. these fun an he can doets.
>> one thing that is fascinating, you got all of these folks to speak to you on the record. their job is their job and part of that job is discretion. why did they want to talk to you and share she's stories, was there some sense the private sides of first family that the public doesn't normally get to see that should be aired in the open? >> one of them told me they thought it was time that people learn that the first families are like everyone else and it's a sympathetic portrayal of most of them. that they do go through ups and downs. i think they felt it was time to speak. there's a great story from an usher who worked there for 26 years, his favorite moment is simply reading a book to john john when he was a toddler in the white house. it reminded him of his four kids at home who he didn't get to see because he had to work such long hours. these people work incredibly hashed and so loyal. fiercely loyal to the families they serve. >> i love this book so interesting, kate anderson thanks for being with us.
just in time for national weed day, the etiquette around pot is changing just as fast as the law. are you required to share with your neighbor? >> no. >> is it cool to bring marijuana to a super bowl party? >> maybe. >> all things i worry about every day. we'll all learn together as "the cycle" rolls on. - electronics don't live forever. but even if they're dead, they've got more to give. recycle them. their parts can be reused to make new devices. so your trash could be someone else's treasure. the more you know.
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and i do. oh, the silent treatment. real mature. so you wanna get out of here? go national. go like a pro. happy 4/20 for those who don't know it is an unofficial holiday called national weed day. nobody is going to force you to smoke, if you want to a birdie told me abby might be holding. >> i don't even know what that means. >> a nation arresting black men four times as often for white men for marijuana charges even though studies show both groups use weed equally and during colorado's first six months of legalization the state raked in
$30 million in state revenue. is it one day we could have a nation where marijuana is legal and does not lead to prison time and makes reason for the people rather than the cartels? bruce bar cot argues yes, "weed the people", great title. >> thanks for having me here. >> i want to start with your journey to being on the side of legalization. you write about that it's a lawyer friend of yours who starts brow beating you into believing in legalization, right? >> right, this whole thing started for me about two and a half years ago i live in washington state and i was confronted with a ballot that had legalization on it and i was on the fence leaning against it. i'm a middle aged guy, haven't used pot since college. two teenage daughters -- daughter and son. and i had concerns about it. i didn't really want to smell it. a friend of mine said you ought to take a second look it is more of a civil rights issue than
whether you like pot or don't like pot. and i held my nose and voted yes and the next morning i wondered what in the world did we just do. >> then what happened? >> then i spent the next two years trying to answer that question. i delve into the science of marijuana and medical use of marijuana. i spent time in emerging industries here in washington state and colorado and tried to figure out whether we were doing a good thing or bad thing. in two years later honestly i think the 2015 me is sort of surprising the 2012 me. i think we're doing a good thing here. >> good. >> one thing you point out is that the weed industry like so many sectors of american business is very pale and male in terms of ownership. why is that? >> right, it's been a very pale male culture to begin with. the women haven't been a hugely visible part of the culture.
and the other hand they are making a lot of inroads, there are a number of retail shop owners in colorado and here in washington state who are women and a lot of women entrepreneurs and few african-americans coming into the industry but honestly it's been a culture that's been dominated by men. that's slowly changing. >> and bruce, as this is becoming more acceptable apparently there's a proper weed etiquette as someone that is just -- i'm going to ask for a friend hereof, bring it to your neighbor's house or offer to them to a super bowl party. what are the dos and don't in terms of weed etiquette? >> the key is really to ask. i mean the legal strict tours against marijuana have been dropped here in washington and colorado but the social strict tours are very much still in place. it's not cool to just bring over a bunch of weed and edibles and start passing them around. i was at a party in washington, d.c. a few weeks ago for the book and it's legal in d.c. now, one of the guests asked me do you think it would be okay if i
brought something along? i said let me check with the host, that's where the law is now. you have to check with your host. if they are okay with it then proceed. that's the new rule number one. >> you're not the only one evolved on the issue, a lot of politicians have moved. take a listen to what president obama just said in an interview with sanjay gupta. >> there's a bill on the floor of the senate now proposing that marijuana get rescheduled from schedule one to schedule two, saying it has no medicinal benefit to possible medicinal benefit. do you support that? >> i would have to look at the details but i'm on record not only do i think carefully prescribed use may be appropriate and we should follow the science as opposed to idealogy on this issue. >> from your reporting, why do you think from the president on down so many politicians are moving so quickly on this? >> i think a couple of things number one, we have so much more information than we had 20 or 30
years ago. people can look up medical studies for themselves and see where there is becoming a healing drug for so many people. the other thing is we've had medical marijuana out there for knew nearly 20 years. i think it's been legal, people have looked around it's sold in this quasigray market area and say, you know it hasn't really disrupted daily life. pillars of civilization haven't fallen. maybe it's time to take the second half step towards full legalization. >> if we can't smoke at the weed party for "weed the people" where can we smoke? >> be discreet. >> any minute now we're expecting to hear from the baltimore police in the death of a maryland man who died in custody. we'll bring that to you live the minute it starts. use it's cats who know best what cats like to eat. up today, new friskies 7. we're trying seven cat-favorite flavors all in one dish. now for the moment of truth.
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so my daughter brought over some aleve. it's just two pills, all day! and now, i'm back! aleve. two pills. all day strong, all day long. and for a good night's rest, try aleve pm for a better am. we have breaking news right now, we're about to hear from the baltimore pd about the death of freddie gray the man who died after being taken into ples custody and family saying last sunday morning baltimore police chased him for no reason. cell phone video provided to nbc news by the family's attorney appears to show police with gray on the ground and dragging him into a police van. the family says his spine was 80% severed at his neck and he fell into a coma and ultimately underwent extensive surgery and died yesterday. the baltimore pd for its part so far has said gray was running
away from officers when he was confronted. court documents obtained by the baltimore sun indicate that gray was arrested without force or incident for having a switch blade and then suffered a medical emergency during transport. the mayor is saying there will be a full and independent investigation. the four officers aeld ss allegedly involved are on administrative leave. joining us now u gene o'donnell good day to you. we're of course awaiting further details that we expect to come in this press conference from the police department undergoing the investigation here. what do you make of this scenario that comes at a time when these kind of citizen videos have increasingly shown a light on very suspect police practices in some instances? >> we have to remind ourselves that the police work with force and can't be held actcountable
simply because there's a bad outcome. when you use force on someone, with no malice at all, there can be a bad ending. people can have medical emergencies, run into traffic. it is a violent process sometimes to we have to keep our equilibrium. it's not dispositive that there's wrong doing because someone is injured or dies during the course of the arrest. >> what would be the process here to try to ascertain what happened and whether the rules were followed? >> it's been a week and the mayor is personally involved and doesn't get straight answers or doesn't say. i need what legal reason there was to chase them. they need to do a better job of getting that out front. we're all familiar get being information out quickly can come out of the cost of accuracy. so they have to make that balance also. >> i think this is all really important context.
the police officers have said that mr. gray was running away when he was confronted. talk to us about the proper positive kol, if someone is running away what are you supposed to do in order to detain them? are you supposed to go after them? >> it depends on what they are running for. in some states like new york you can't chase somebody for running. the law doesn't allow it. there has to be some other indication of wrong doing. i think they are saying now he might have had a knife but the details will be really crucial. what is it exactly that got their attention? why are they chasing this guy and obviously, how this occurred, the mechanics of how this could have occurred are vital to determining whether it's a legitimate use of force. >> eugene i understand what you're saying bad outcomes don't necessarily mean police misconduct. we respect that and don't know everything about the situation. let's broaden the lens. baltimore has paid nearly $6 million since 2011 to settle
more than 100 lawsuits alleging police brutality. is there a problem in baltimore are those numbers alarming to you? >> baltimore is one of these cities and philly another one that has actually invited the justice department in, which in one way is good. they're coming in to do a look-see. but in other ways these are political accountability issues, police leadership issues, and i don't like this idea that you're punting to washington to get them to come in. you're elected to fix the department. if the department has problems if you're the mayor, you should fix the department. if the chief's not doing his or her job, you should get another chief. it shouldn't simply be i'm not responsible. i don't know the whole picture in baltimore, but this has become common place. turning to d.c., to doj and saying could you help us run our department? this is what the mayor is elected to do, to run the department. >> hopefully we will learn more about the situation, because the reality is right now we don't know a whole lot. but from what we do know and from what we have seen i think it is fair to say that this does
not look good at all. >> obviously somebody's dead for triviality and there's no clear accounting for that. and that has to take place. we have to see a clear accounting. and i think these events now, if you look at this news conference this morning from tulsa, police leadership -- we spent a lot of time about lying officers. but you ask a police chief, is your officer certified? they can't give you a straight answer. why is this guy involved in a sting? can't get a straight answer. there's a lot of police leadership issues that are unset unsettle unsettling. they should be giving us clear information. there seems to be a lot of foot dragging and disassembling. even if it's legitimate, it's not helpful to building public trust. >> what do you think about the video aspect of all this? that seems to be the big distinguishing feature. for people watching at home they may say well these kind of incidents happen. you look although there isn't good federal data on police involved shootings and police involved violence there is, of
course, plenty of trnd lineend lines. often justified, often not. these videos that cannot only be made by anyone walking around with a cell phone, but can be spread relatively quickly, as you know. yet when i talk to some folks in the law enforcement community, they're their concern, their objection is that a cell phone video made by hand does sometimes show only an incomplete picture. what do you think about that and what can you tell us, if anything, about the rules and precedents in the baltimore context for this kind of video evidence? >> again, baltimore underscores the truth that you want the police to be engaged, and often in minor stuff. a city like built has issues. the last thing you need is the cops to be driving by those issues. the thing that's going to discourage the police from being involved is if they're judged based solely on an outcome or if something is optically unsettling. they have a brutal job and they have to use force on people and that's unfortunate. even minor stuff can escalate.
we saw this on staten island. sometimes minor offenders are the most put out by this understandably. they're saying you don't have anything better to do. but it's important to have the equilibrium. what is it that got these officers involved? what did they do? was it reasonable? was it proper? and was there any other way to prevent it. but you can never, ever promise people if you're putting the police forward to make enforcement decisions. that they're always going to end in a way that's satisfactory or makes people -- there are unsettling outcomes including using force, which is never going to look good on people. >> the mayor of baltimore has announced that there will be a full investigation. what do you expect to be a part of that investigation? >> best as i can tell we still don't have clarity. i think they're saying a knife charge. it's been several days so i don't know why it takes so long to try to get factual accounting to people. what is it that this pursuit was about? i think people are entitled to think the longer it goes on, are they hiding something?
and the tragedy here is they may not be hiding anything at all, but it's awfully bad to be seeing several days go by and you just have to guess why the police were engaged in this initial encounter. >> we're about two minutes away from a baltimore police department press conference about the death while in custody of 25-year-old freddie gray baltimore resident. eugene, do the police feel -- do they have, is it on the books that they have a responsibility to arrest folks in a humane way, and if somebody is injured during the process of getting control of their body, do they have a responsibility to deal with them at that time? >> yeah i think what we're seeing, you may be seeing some malice, but i think you're seeing some shock in some of these videos. when there are bad endings, the cops are surprised that people are hurt or dead in some cases. and so obviously, it's plain as the nose on your face we're going to have to train police people after arrests. when people have medical energy
sis, that they have to definitively attend to those emergencies. that saving the life of even the worst priority is a high priority. you can't get somebody's life back. you can get a crime scene back. you can find witnesses. but once somebody's gone they're gone. i think we have several videos in the public realm to give reason to believe the police are not attending the people after the fact. our job in america is to bring people before the bar of justice, not to settle these things in the street. life has to be preserved, even for the worst person. >> and unfortunately, we've seen a number of cases now that have received national attention throughout the country. we've seen police departments handle it better than others and now we're in a situation where they can learn from those past mistakes. why do you think it is that the baltimore police department has not answered some real questions and have waited so long to have this press conference? >> they may be trying to get the facts straight. of course, there's videos out in
the public realm now, which makes everybody hesitant because you're offering up one accounting and all of a sudden somebody sells a video to somebody or gives a video to somebody and it completely undercuts your story. maybe that's a new wrinkle that departments are more concerned about now, being embarrassed, coming in and saying definitively, full-throatedly this is justifiable, and a video surfaces showing something that's contrary to what you're saying. >> from an investigation perspective, does it matter at all that this occurred during the day? >> well the circumstances always matter. so where was it who was the guy, who were they nushlly pursuing for, is it something that they're attending to is it a quality of life issue, some condition that they have there. hopefully it's not some
arbitrary misuse where they look at somebody and give them a hard time for no discernible reason. so the context as you guys well know, you change one fact and they can take something that's justifiable and they can make it unjustifiable unjustifiable. >> we are waiting on a police department police conference on the death of freddie gray. as a civilian watching this really difficult to watch video, you hear mr. gray he sounds like he is in severe pain and then you see the officers and as a civilian i would describe it as callous treatment. dragging him to the van. what do you see in that video, and to toure's point, what sort of medical training is expected for police officers to have? >> i think we're seeing that the cops are thinking of themselves in these situations which is the human instinct. they're saying wow i can't believe this happened. i thought this was minor, now somebody's dead. what's going to happen to me?
what are the consequences? so there needs to be more training in the moment for them to be able to shift from hey, what about me to hey, you've got to save this person's life. it may be a person that just tried to hurt you or endangered you, but you still have to have the presence of mind to realize. one thing you can always trip people up on is what's the top priority at a crime scene, and people will come up with all these answers. the top priority at a crime scene always is to take care of people, because lives can't be restored. so that's what they need to reemphasize. but you have to understand again police people are human, and the idea of an on-off switch is a hard thing to have. an automatic line where you can say this much and no more is hard. you have to do the best you can to get there. but it is hard for the cops to say okay enough's enough here. >> eugene once again, the story is cell phone footage of police brutality against black people. is there a message going out
within police culture that more people have video cameras than ever before and we need to behave a little bit differently? >> i think so. i think more interestingly and hopefully, the conversation you guys had about marijuana reform have to get the footprint right in this country. we're asking them to do too many things and we're pretending to be shop when they do them and end up badly. i've seen reforms all over the place. people are starting to ask hard questions. why are the cops involved with the mentally ill and all these various ways that we're inserting the police. i think that's the tried and true solution. police have to be reserved for things they categorically need to do or do best and everything else needs to be not done. that's the real reform. because this gotcha stuff -- and i don't mean to trivialize it but that's not real reform. >> we're still waiting for that presser from the baltimore police department about the death in custody of 25-year-old freddie gray. we're going to hand it off to alex wagner right now.
stay with msnbc if you want to see that press conference. "now with alex wagner" starts right now. a bombshell investigation finds fbi analysts routinely gave flawed testimony during the course of several decades. another intruder makes it over the white house gates. and this year's 4/20 celebration in america is unlike any one before. but first, the scooby doo caravan has reached new hampshire. it's monday april 20th, and this is "now." >> i am excited to hear from you. >> the new hampshire road show. >> the second leg of hillary clinton's campaign. >> she's going to be meeting everyday americans. >> same song different location. >> in 2008, the state threw her a lifeline. >> she comes here after