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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  October 19, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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>> always fun. >> thank you for watching nbc live. i'm richard wolffe. "hardball" starts right now. >> he koept us safe. no he didn't. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. it was warm in the sun today, but the strong chill in the shade reminds us that winter is coming and soon will be halloween and thanksgiving and christmas and new year's. by then we will be in the thick of picking a president. what strikes me about the campaign so far is it took a political newcomer, donald trump to say something we already knew but nobody said before. that president george w. bush did not keep us safe in the eight years he was president of the united states. he didn't keep us safe or the people on those planes, those four planes safe that day.
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he didn't keep safe those men and women forced to choose between jumping from 100-story roof and being killed by the smoke and fire. he didn't keep safe the hundreds of firefighters killed that day doing their courageous duty. why did his brother make such a claim? why did jeb tell the audience in a republican debate last week and to great and unexpected applause his brother kept us safe. he said because he knew he could not only get away from it, but get a wild cheer because the country were told not to look at what steps were taken and not taken in the hours, days, weeks, months before september 11, 2001. we've been told not to look at the casualties taken in iraq, a war that had nothing to do with 9/11, except that our president and his strong-minded advisors used 9/11 to justify war they wanted for their own reasons. the partisans say we can't say this, think of it. his brother jeb says only those in the country's margins even think this.
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really? the bushes and their partisans can charge hillary clinton for what happened in aare moat building in war-torn north africa, miles, 400 miles from the capital of that country. let's put those two events together for a moment mentally. one 9/11/2001, new york city the financial center is hit by two jetliners. a fourth plane is downed by courageous passengers on a course to the capitol. all after warning was given to the president that, quote, bin laden determined to attack in the u.s. we were hit here in our country, the homeland as they call it now. and no one is to blame. when an outpost 400 miles from the capitality in a north african country with nothing approaching a normal security situation, while then hillary clinton back in the united states is painted as the villain, as if she left the
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window open that night. again, i want to thank trump and jeb for finally getting this one out in the open, by throwing out the red meat saying, "he kept us safe." jeb let us know what we knew already, that actually w. didn't keep us safe, did he? nbc's katy tur is in anderson, south carolina, tonight where donald trump just finished a campaign rally tonight. katy, i am not a big fan of donald trump on many occasions, on many fronts, but he woke open this campaign. he awakened us all to the fact jeb said something that just isn't true. his brother did not keep us safe. >> i got to tell you, chris, he did not mention that once tonight at the rally. if he did, i just didn't hear it. maybe i was doing a live shot, but he did not mention jeb bush or 9/11 once in this rally, which is shocking. usually when he sees an opening, he takes it for as long as he can.
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this jib opening with 9/11 has certainly got him a few headlines and got him some attention. i'm wondering if he didn't think this crowd was necessarily the crowd to be speaking about it with. i did speak with people here before the rally started and asked them whether or not they thought it was a good idea to bring 9/11 into this election cycle? many of them told me, no, they didn't believe so, but they would still vote for donald trump. this is a conservative crowd here. >> it's hawkish. >> when you talk to a number of liberals, they tell you yes, they do believe donald trump is right in this respect, and this is what i've been saying a few months. that donald trump has the ability in some ways to cross over to the other side because he does hold some pretty liberal positions. he does say things that are against the grain when it comes to consecutive republicans. >> let's take a look. i think he's probably modulating his pitch because he is in hawk
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country in south carolina. friday donald trump took issue with jeb bush's assertion that george w. bush kept us safe. >> when you talk about george bush, say what you want, the world trade center came down during his time. >> hold on. you can't blame george bush for that. >> he was president, okay? don't blame him or don't blame him, but he was president. >> i don't know what that reporter meant, you can't bring him into this. he's into it. trump defends those comments over the weekend. >> jeb said we were safe with my brother, we were safe. well, the world trade center just fell down. now, am i trying to blame him? i'm not blaming anybody, but the world trade center came down. when he said we were safe, that's not safe. we lost 3,000 people. it was probably the greatest catastrophe ever in this country. >> here is how jeb bush responded this weekend defending his brother in attacking trump. if if you listen carefully, he doesn't say what he is saying here. watch this. >> my brother responded to a
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crisis and he did it as you would hope a president would do. he united the country, organized our country and kept us safe. there is no denying that. the great majority of americans believe that. i don't know why he keeps bringing this up. it doesn't show that he's a serious person as it relates to being commander in chief and being the architect of a foreign policy. >> well, again, the jeb bush defense did not talk about before 9/11, only talked as if jeb's brother became president, was inaugurated the day after 9/11, which is a discreet way to defraud your brother, he's not responsible for what went wrong, only what went right. he never talked about the fact he took us into a war of choice in iraq. >> jeb doesn't have much of a choice here. he's got to defend his brother on his record. he's kind of, you now, it's do or die for him when it comes to this. 17 of his 21 foreign policy
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advisors are former george w. bush foreign policy advisors. he is in that camp. it's his brother. it's his brother. he's got to defend his brother. he can't be seen as going against his brother or going against his family. in a lot of ways, it's a double-edged sword for him. he has no choice here. >> thank you. you're right. paul wolfowitz is unlikely to advise him to go against his brother since he was key to his brother's mishaps, same with john bolden. thank you, katy tur, who is on the magical mystery tour with donald trump. >> the war of words between trump and bush stretched online with jeb bush's campaign releasing this web ad attacking donald trump. >> he said publically he watches cable news. that's one of the ways he bones up on our national security. >> trump says he, quote, always felt that i was in the military, despite never serving in the military and draft deferments during vietnam. >> there is nobody bigger or
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better at the military than i am. >> donald trump tweeted today, jeb is fighting to defend a catastrophic event. i am fighting to make sure it doesn't happen again. jeb is too soft. we need tougher and sharper." i'm joined by washington editor for the national review and paul singer for "usa today." this is an unusual opening in the campaign. the democrats never had the stones to go out and challenge george w. and say, don't talk about what a warrior king you are. you left the door open they probably felt that would be unnice. trump is willing to be tough, especially when the guy running against him has the stupidity to say, my brother kept us safe in the face of 9/11. he could have said we did a good job uniting after the worst catastrophe in history. that's not what he said. he said, he kept us safe. >> i think trump will feature you in his first ad. >> i don't think so.
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>> i think trump is tremendously strategic. what he did with that's tack on george bush is, number one, he got under jeb bush's skin. the guy is a natural provacateur. >> jeb isn't challenging him now is he trying to knock him out early? >> sure. he made jeb bush's family the subject of this. what is the one thing bush has been trying to avoid? talking about his family, reminding people he is a bush. >> it also gave jeb bush opening to get into a fight with donald trump which gets him into headlines which he hasn't been 3 1/2 weeks. >> who is going to take his side? >> he comes in defending the republican establishment. interesting establishment to say he was a pretty good president. >> right. >> not a clown or disaster. >> it's the bush family. it's father bush, son bush. there is something to be said for jeb bush to say you can stand by my name and trust us.
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right? >> see how well that holds up. brand-new nbc/"wall street journal" poll shows trump continuing to lead the republican field of candidates. trump gets the support of 25%. ben carson is close behind at 22%. they are followed by marco rubio at 13%. jeb bush is far back in fifth place. he's just got 8%. that is 1-12 for a guy everybody knows. you reported many in the republican establishment are starting to believe something that was once unthinkable. i love reading your reporting to you. it began as whispers in hushed corners. members of the republican establishment are starting to give voice to an increasingly common belief that trump, once dismissed as a joke, a carnival barker and circus freak might very well win the nomination. are these people you're talking to, are they county and state chairs? what kind of people are they?
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>> the regime is falling. >> this is a recognition the republican establishment as we knew it in the past elections is craters and crumbling. look how the narrative shifted. when trump got in the race in june, people were saying, we're worried he's going to damage the republican brand from his statements. fast forward four months. concern is the guy is going to get the nomination. that is a tremendous shift. >> what is the republican party today? i'm looking at the numbers. 25% for donald trump. 23, almost 50% right there of the top two, neither ever held office. then you throw in fiorina's vote. establishment candidates. >> this is sort of the coalition government that we are beginning to see going on in the house of representatives. this is, it's fracturing into an
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unmanageable party? >> is it a party? the cover of "the examiner," is it still a party? trump is not only challenging jeb bush, but also the invasion in iraq. beginning to sound like me. >> why would you pick this argument because this is a michael moore leftist, i hate everything republican argument. why would you take in? >> i didn't take this argument. i'm not blaming anybody. i don't like to go back and blame. i like to look to the future. i'm not blaming anybody. the only thing i said, well, he said we were safe. the fact is we had the worst attack in the history of our country during his reign. >> post 9/11, many americans would say president george w. bush did everything in his power and did keep us safe, free from another attack. would you not deny that, would you? >> we attacked a different country which i think was the wrong country. >> sometimes reporters talk like mooneys.
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the question was, was jeb bush right to say he kept us safe? if you look at the statement over the eight years of his presidency, you can't say that's accurate. they don't answer the question. no one would doubt it after that. why do they keep rephrasing the question? >> who do we blame for pearl harbor? >> there was tremendous investigation. paul, young man, there were tremendous conspiracy theories coming out of pearl harbor. there was amazing amount of investigations. a lot of admirals lost their ranks over it. my father and a lot of people on the conservative side of things still thought he did it to set us up for a war. you know those stories. >> a whole new department of homeland security to fix the problems of 9/11. >> what is your point? did he keep us safe for eight years? >> we were surprise attacked. >> did he keep us safe? >> that is not my job. >> you thought he kept us safe eight years? >> i believe after 9/11 -- >> no.
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parse the statement made by jeb bush. >> i would not say the nation was safe for eight years. >> that's all trump is saying. >> it's fair game to ask george w. bush kept us safe before 9/11 and bill clinton kept us safe. i think it's fair game to ask if hillary clinton kept american people safe in benghazi. >> she could have hekept them fm being attacked. how could she have prevented that? what do you think she did wrong? >> i think the state department could have responded to requests for more security. >> what about when the attack came? do you think she handled that wrong? >> i don't know enough to answer that question. there were request for more service. they are both fair game. >> now we are back to it's fair game. >> part of your record. >> that was the main point of my opening salvo, good for the goose, good for the gander.
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>> i'm with you. >> i finally got you to the truth. it's hard to think radically. that's what that reporter had a problem with. we've been dog trained to think 9/11 was a weather condition. after that he was great. he rallied us and took us into a wrong war. this stuff matters to me. matters to both of you, i'm sure. joe binden getting close to making a decision to run for president. there are clues he is likely in. anybody could announce in the next 48 hours. >> plus hillary clinton gearing up for her testimony this thursday before the benghazi committee as the democrats issue a report they say debunking the republican claims clinton told the military to stand down during the 2012 attack. >> this is light-hearted. larry david who is a genius, i think, does bernie sanders on "snl." >> i'm the only candidate up here who is not a billionaire. i don't have a super pac, i don't even have a backpack.
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i own one pair of underwear. that's it. some of these billionaires, they got three, four pairs. >> we'll look how "snl" impressions can sell or sabotage a presidential candidate. i don't think that hurt. >> the wondrous fact donald trump was the one to say the emperor has no clothes. this is "hardball," the place for politics. technology empowers us to achieve more. it pushes us to go further. special olympics has almost five million athletes in 170 countries. the microsoft cloud allows us to immediately be able to access information, wherever we are. information for an athlete's medical care, or information to track their personal best. with microsoft cloud, we save millions of man hours, and that's time that we can invest in our athletes and changing the world.
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welcome back to "hardball." the speculation of joe biden hit a breaking point as his poll numbers have begun to fade. sources tell nbc news biden's decision to come within the next 48 hours. anybody's decision could come within 48 hours. friday biden spoke with a prominent labor leader. he's head of the firefighters about strategy, infrastructure and fund-raising. a source told nbc news he was left with the impression biden likely would run. impression, likely would run. a lot of possibilities there. brendan boyle of pennsylvania tweeted, i have a very good source close to joe that tells me vp biden will run for president. there are other reports from anonymous sources who say they expect biden to enter the race. they are not confirmed by nbc
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news. susan paige is washington bureau chief, eugene robertson and stephen mcmahon is a democratic strategist. two people of editor quality here. how high up is that person? you start it. you worked with the great ben bradley. what is there to go with? >> a lot of conditionality. >> you're imitating ben bradley with the gravelly, luis armstrong voice. >> exactly. it's all conditioned on likely, would, maybe, the next 48 hours could be crucial. you know? >> barnicle talked to him last week. he said i talked to him a long time and i don't know. >> where is the opening? where is the opening? >> you are being logical. steve, you work with politicians and egos. >> there is no logic.
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>> you know about career plans and ambitions. >> ted kennedy used to say the condition of wanting to be president is something that can only be cured with embalming fluid. joe biden thought since he was 29 years old elected to senate he would be president some day. the window is closing. it's closing on his hand. >> he has to say no to the presidency himself. that is a hard thing to do. >> he has to say something soon. it's clear he has a lot of aides who want him to run. a lot of trial balloons. it's not clear that he wants to run himself. >> there are two reasons to one. one would be the values reasons, the clintons aren't worth it. he doesn't think they should be president. >> i think he thinks he would be a good president and better president than hillary clinton. i think he does think that. can he become president is a different question? i think he clearly wants to run. >> what about throwing the dice
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if you believe you should be president? how do you walk away from that to the rest of your life saying i knew there was an outside chance i could win. i thought i should win but i didn't run. >> how outside is a chance? maybe i'm unique here. i see it as a very outside chance. >> his numbers are about the same john kerry's were when he won the nomination. >> he gets in the race. is he going to be competitive against hillary clinton after that debate performance? if on the other hand if she were in trouble -- okay, wait until after the hearings. >> then he will be an opportunist. he should have been asked after he met with colbert. >> you're right. for joe biden, the rationale had to be he could be a savior for the party, not a spoiler. the problem is a month ago he looked like he might have been a savior. a lot of democrats worried about hillary clinton could win a
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general election. many of those democrats don't have that concern. >> will he be blamed if she has trouble between now and next summer? >> i think there will be people who say, joe, you should have done it. >> what if he does it? >> depends how he runs his campaign. the rationale is if you believe hillary clinton can't win a general election, if you think that the gains we made as democrats are too important to risk with a conservative supreme court and conservative president and you don't think bernie sanders could win a general, maybe i'm the alternative. >> how many candidates run for races people said you can't win and they win it. >> is he ready for the dirt coming his way? the tough, negative people out there? the people for hillary who will dirt ball him from now to whenever he leaves the race? >> it's a much meaner race than the last time he ran for president, right? running for vice president is different. last time he ran for
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president -- >> is he ready for the assault he will face against hillary and her people? >> it will be massive. >> they'll try to destroy him. >> how does he position himself on issues? to the right of clinton, left of clinton? he doesn't have a lot of room. >> biden is waiting, but his supporters aren't. after a well-received debate performance, hillary clinton is up six points since last month while biden is down five. it's clinton 48%, sanders 21% and biden 17%. a new cnn poll says she is up 3%, he is down 4%. he does talk about saying -- this is what somebody says about him. he really does not care about john podesta or anybody else. he does not like bullies. and he will not be bullied. he has never really been part of
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the democratic establishment. he doesn't feel like he is part of the inside crowd and i don't think he cares what podesta says. >> i think you're right he's not part of the in crowd here. that is part of his appeal, being a regular joe. he's not an irrational guy. if he thinks this is going to be harmful to him and harmful to his family, hurtful to his family, it seems that would be a reason. >> what do you make of the beau thing? >> the report beau asked him to run? >> it's true, it's real. >> if it's true, it's real and it's got to have an effect on him. obviously the death of his son was a huge and tragic event in his life. he hasn't entirely gotten over it. >> very soulful guy. >> i would think about that. >> exactly. >> he's not whimsical about such
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things. >> you would also think -- look, this could be the last big act of joe biden's political career. how does he want to go out? he has an illustrious career capped by eight years as vice president in an administration that accomplished a lot. do you risk that? >> should hillary offer him something? >> yes. >> that's what i think. >> absolutely. >> offer what? >> kennedy would have loved to have adelaide stevenson out of that race. offer him secretary of state, offered him the world. would biden take state? >> i think so. this is somebody who is obviously not finished with his public career if he has a choice. >> he doesn't want to go home. >> what is he going to do, go home and collect social security checks? >> he's never wanted money ever. the way to handle this, you offer the guy something. get him out of the race.
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>> he would be a great secretary of state. >> yeah. it's something he prepared for all his life. thank you, susan paige. leaders don't want him in that position. thank you, gene robertson and stephen mcmahon. days before hillary clinton is set to testify on benghazi, house democrats release a report critical of the committee's work. the republicans on the committee. this is "hardball." with my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened;
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committee conducted, the report said there is no evidence that mrs. clinton personally ordered security to be reduced prior to the attacks, nor find evidence secretary clinton issued a stand down order on the night of the attacks. no evidence clinton led an operation to scrub or destroy state department documents in the aftermath of the attacks. clinton's appearance thursday will come three years after she first testified about the tragedy of benghazi. she spoke about the victims of the attack and devotion of those who serve in the state department. >> i stood next to president obama as the marines carried those flag-draped caskets off the plane at andrews. i put my arms around the mothers and fathers, the sisters and brothers, sons and daughters and the wives left alone to raise their children. it has been one of the great honors of my life to lead the
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men and women of the state department and usaid. more than 70,000 serving in washington, 170 posts around the world. they get up to work every day often in difficult and dangerous circumstances because they believe, as we believe, the united states is the most extraordinary force for peace and progress the world has ever known. >> i'm joined by one of the five democrats on that house select committee on benghazi. what is your reaction to mrs. clinton when you see her there? >> i thought it was incredibly powerful. the ambassador was someone she knew personally, someone she helped to select. so she is dealing with this traum aye, this tragedy and then you compound it by people making a political football about this, which i have to think given what i know of the ambassador would be the last thing in the world he would have wanted.
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i think his mother said as much. the other night during the debate for this offensive stop hillary pack to air showing ambassador stevenson's tomb stone. every day a new low. >> we've gone down the list of nbc officials around the world killed in the last 30, 40 years. it just happened. we post people in dangerous places. we give them danger pay. they get in their car every day not knowing if there is a bomb in it. this is part of life. we lost those marines in lebanon. nobody spends the rest of our lives saying how come that happen. republicans seem fixated on this. what is the worst thing they believe? do they believe she just let her friend die and went to a dinner party that night? what is in their heads. >> that seems to be the suggestion. >> it is the suggestion. >> it is. that somehow she conspired to reduce the spirit. >> beforehand. >> for some unforeseen reason,
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she wanted to make them vulnerable? or after she interfered with the efforts to rescue them, as if there would be any motivation to do that on anyone's part, the secretary or the military's. why would anyone want to interfere with efforts to rescue people? i don't understand it. it's an irrational obsession with -- >> what about the movie in january? going to talk about a stand down order. >> i've seen the trailer. i took issue with the very first part which says "this is a true story." the quintessential part in the trailer is they had to have a bad guy. wasn't enough the terrorists were the bad guy. there's got to be some bureaucrat standing in the way of the rescue. that simply wasn't the case. i hate to say that fallacy being propagated. i represent hollywood, they are in my district, i hate to see them doing it. >> go to see "jfk" if you have a problem. johnson had nothing to do with killing kennedy or the nixon
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movie. in a radio interview thursday, mo brooks from alabama said if hillary clinton won the white house, she would be subject to impeachment because of the use of her private e-mail server. >> with respect to hillary clinton, she would be a unique president if elected by the public because the day she's sworn in is the day she is subject to impeachment because she has committed high crimes and misdemeanors. >> do you like the way he jumped on that word, impeachment? what is their cartoon version of life? hillary is the villainous of our time? >> this is what concerns me about the select committee. we see with the abuse of impeachment, it becomes another tool to be used for partisan purposes. this is what the select committee has become. in the future, benghazi will become synonymous with a partisan abuse of taxpayer dollars. should we form a benghazi committee on this? benghazi committee on that? >> i want to ask you a question.
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i'm going to put new the hardball corner. in everything you read, all the testimony you gathered, everything you heard on your own investigation, have you seen any evidence hillary didn't do her level best to save her friend? >> absolutely not. not a shred. i think it's a terrible indictment of our committee that we wasted this amount of time and money searching for something that doesn't exist in an effort to smear a dedicated public servant. no. >> you sound like kevin mccarthy. >> i think kevin mccarthy spoke the truth. >> let the cat out of the bag. >> the thing about kevin mccarthy, there is a very small group of people that was in the room when the speaker, against his better judgment, made the decision to form this select committee. ken mccarthy was one of them. he is one of the few people that can speak to the motive behind the formation of the committee. what he said has been borne out by the facts. our chairman says judge us not by what our leadership says or
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member says or the gop whistle blower says, judge by what we do. what we have been doing in this committee is the worst indictment of the committee. they set up interviews with a dozen witnesses this year. canceled all of them. canceled on joints chief of staff, defense secretary because they are not running for president. they went after one person, secretary hillary clinton. >> let's watch the hearing thursday and i think you will be proven right. thank you, sir. layered david performs a bernie sanders impression so spot-on, it rivals the senator himself. of hardball round table will see what it means. it is funny. look how good he is. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.wh you're nor company's data is secure, the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help.
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i'm page hopkins.
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authorities are looking into whether a personal e-mail account belonging to cia director john brennan was hacked. the hacker claims to have posted some stolen information online. >> republican presidential candidates donald trump and ben carson asked for secret service protection, a group of five senior law makers will review those requests. >> jim webb is considering running as an independent. the former senator will be discussing his candidacy at a news conference tomorrow afternoon. now back to "hardball." i'm the only candidate up here who is not a billionaire. i don't have a super pac. i don't even have a backpack. i carry my stuff around loose in my arms like a professor. you know, between classes. i own one pair of underwear. that's it.
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some of these billionaires, they got three, four pairs. i don't have a dryer. i have to put my clothes on the radiator. >> we are back. that was larry david, of course, he stole the show saturday night with his impersonation of democratic candidate bernie sanders. anyway, that was just something. here was bernie's reaction yesterday to iowa, if iowa to what he saw on "snl." do you have more than one pair of underwear? >> next question. thank you, everybody. >> no, no, no. this is a serious question. yes, last week i bought my second pair of underwear. that's a joke. all right? please don't write it down. that was a joke. i have an ample supply of underwear. >> that accent is great. bring in the round table right now.
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thank you very much. there's the question. bernie -- i have a sense that he is very careful now about not becoming too cartoonish. the fact he said don't write it down, it's already written down. not getting too much involved in the humor of this. i think he is worried about the effectiveness of "saturday night live" to make you more comic than is helpful. >> sure. bernie sanders cares very much about the poll system he made that clear over the course of his campaign that he wants to be the policy candidate, the serious candidate here. we have seen a little bit of his playful side lately. he's not completely spurning this opportunity. he went on ellen degeneres, danced around. gave me more information than i ever wanted about bernie sanders' underwear. he is not totally rebuffing this. you're right. he wants to remain a serious candidate. that's what he is about.
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>> when people bust their hump in a campaign, kids young people go out and work door-to-door. they go to supermarkets and stand for hours handing out literature. they do all this stuff campaigning which is real. they want to know the guy or woman has a shot. they want to know they are going to win. these are not protest campaigns, these are real. do you think bernie is coming across since the debate after he jumped across the net and said to hillary, i'm not going to use e-mail against you. do you think he is acting like a candidate trying to beat her or has a protest line he wants to sell, but not that interested whether he wins or not. i'm worried he isn't acting like a politician enough. >> i think he is acting like a candidate true to his past self. he's never run a negative ad and likes to stay positive and focused. >> and lived in vermont. >> i don't know any presidential candidate who's become the nominee who hasn't gotten negative. i understand his hesitance going after clinton's e-mails. democrats are not excited about
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that. >> he took it off the table. enough already about the e-mails. >> i think it might be a bad look because democrats are not worried about her e-mail. maybe her closeness to wall street or other things, her judgment on the iraq war. >> now the wobbliness is gone on the e-mail with the democrats. he took it off the table. >> i would agree with that. when imine the campaign trail talking to democrats, i ask them if they are supporting sanders, is it because of hillary clinton's e-mails. they tell me no, but because of wall street, because of the big banks, because of a whole host of other issues. i think he took those off the table because he does think he cab win this election, win this primary and win that debate if it's not about the e-mails. >> is he winning it? >> i don't think he won the debate the other night. no, i do not believe he won the debate. >> here is how he could have won. i thought he was winning. he had a great line. i want to take the best part of him.
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i do like the guy. i thought his line is when hillary is acting like she was the hall monitor of wall street, like you can tell them what to do up there and they are paying your campaign expenses in give me a break. they are telling you what they want you to do. he said, let's get this straight. congress doesn't regulate wall street. wall street regulates congress. i thought that was so freaking powerful and true. we all know democrat or republican, we know big contributors. there are ambassadors on democrat presidencies paying the piper. he's right. >> here is an area of agreement between donald trump and bernie sanders. that message is working well on the republican side just as well as the democrat side. what that was was a very subtle way of drawing a contrast with hillary clinton. that's how derby sanders makes this a real race. that's how he expands and broadens his base of exporters by making those stark contrasts. he can do that without going blatantly negative. he needs to get less subtle and
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draw the distinctions as strongly as he can. >> clinton was willing to go in for the kill on the issue of guns. >> of course she was. >> it knocked him off his game. >> why didn't he do it to her? >> that's the point. >> she got there first. >> this was his big introduction to the country. only 60% of democrats are familiar with him. he has a strong rating with those. he probably wanted to introduce himself in a positive, favorable way. >> do you think his campaign is up in the air? >> can he beat her? >> i don't think he expected her to hit him. >> can he beat her? >> at this point? i don't think so. >> if biden jumps if the race and she is damaged, yes. >> i think biden will make this even tougher. >> for her. >> right now, bernie sanders needs to do something differently to win. >> he's got to put some edge into it. the round table is staying with us. up next, i want these reporters to tell me something i don't know. this is a new part of the show. they are going to prove it they've got it to tell us something we can take home with us tonight.
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this is "hardball," the place for politics. on making great burgers, or building the best houses in town. or becoming the next highly-unlikely dotcom superstar. and us, we'll be right there with you, helping with the questions you need answered to get your brand new business started. we're legalzoom and we've already partnered with over a million new business owners to do just that. check us out today to see how you can become one of them. legalzoom. legal help is here. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night,blind. and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com.
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welcome back to "hardball." and to something new. like i love getting a scoop, everyone else does, something i don't know. but now thanks to a great reporter i do. tell me something i don't know. >> well, you can likely rest easy tonight, chris. rumors in washington, d.c. today were that the vice president could announce his candidacy in the next 48 hours. a senior administration official tells me that that's all speculation, that is not -- >> not going to happen. 48 hours from now will be wednesday. we'll check you out by then. yes, sir. >> the story you covered earlier on the show. jeb bush engaging donald trump on the issue of 9/11 and his brother. believe it or not, there's a strategy behind this. people close to jeb as he
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reported on bloomberg today, they believe that by highlighting trump's lack of credibility as a commander in chief and lack of sort of experience on foreign policy that they can damage him. will it work? doubtful. because he's also associating himself more closely with his brother and relitigating the aftermath of it which is the very unpopular iraq war. >> here's a tidbit that i think will make you look at donald trump a little bit differently. at his rally in richmond, virginia last week he had campaign volunteers on the way in and the way out grabbing people, collecting signatures to get him on the ballot in virginia. that event alone drew about 5,000 people, which is the number you need to get on the ballot. only mitt romney and ron paul did it in 2012 because they were the only campaigns who were organized enough to get them on the ballot. donald trump taking -- >> so he's got a ground game. thank you so much, francesca chambers. sahil kapur and rebecca bird with the latest on donald trump's reality. when we return i'll have some finishing words on the wondrous fact that donald trump was the one to say the emperor has no clothes.
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to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. (interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world.
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let me finish tonight with the wondrous fact that donald trump was the one to say the
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emperor has no clothes. ever since september 11th, 2001 the democrats have joined the republicans in agreeing that the country would be better off if we didn't become divided in blame over who allowed this country's worst attack on the continental united states. what upset this arrangement was jeb bush's statement, deniable on its face, that his brother george "kept us safe." well, actually, he didn't. he did a good job of rallying the country after we were hit, a quick job of tracking down the killers to afghanistan. from there it all came apart with his war of choice against iraq, a country that had nothing to do with what happened here in 2001. in any case, what brings this matter back is the atrocious way in which the republican party is trying to blame hillary clinton for the deaths of four americans serving in libya in 2012. three years later they continue to hunt her, hunt her down you can say, on the groundless argument that someone must be to blame. well, you follow that argument and the trail of 9/11 and you end up with george w. bush. as harry truman once said of the
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american presidency, the buck stops here. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> does anybody actually blame my brother for the attacks on 9/11? >> the republican feud over 9/11 continues. >> the world trade center came down. so when he said we were safe, that's not safe. >> and donald trump starts hitting harder. >> why did we attack iraq and now we have the mess where the whole middle east is screwed up? then the wheels continue to fly off the benghazi committee. >> shut up talking about things you don't know anything about. >> plus, what we now know about joe biden's campaign plan. the texas teen arrested for clock making shows up at the white house. and as "snl" does bernie -- >> i'm the only candidate up here who's not a billionaire. i don't have a super pac. i don't even have a backpack. >> can a socialist

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