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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  October 21, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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right, are we done here? we're out. that's the threat. the testimony begins at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> if it was a serious committee with a serious investigative purpose and one witness, you could get every question done before lunch. >> right. that's exactly right. if there was -- if they were driving at something factual and they were going to extract that information from a person, it wouldn't take 12 hours. >> we'll hear more speech making than questioning. >> we have breaking news tonight about new support for paul ryan to be speaker of the house, and joe biden said it's too late for him to try to build support for a presidential campaign. >> he's finally decided and the answer is no. >> vice president joe biden saying he will not run for president in 2016. >> unfortunately, i believe we're out of time.
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>> it's clear that this was a reluctant decision. >> but while i will not be a candidate, i will not be silent. >> he made a difficult decision, and i respect the decision that he made. >> we tend to spend the next 15 months fighting for what we've always cared about. >> hillary clinton will see almost certainly a big bump in the polls. >> frankly, i really want to run against hillary. i really do. >> i would rather run against him. >> he's out, he's out. >> oh, i've been so busy doing this stuff. he's out? >> without their endorsement, paul ryan says he won't run. >> what if he doesn't decide by friday? >> don't know. >> i am absolutely certain we are fully capable of accomplishing extraordinary things.
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>> 45 years ago tonight, joe biden was running for the newcastle county council in delaware. he won. every day since then, joe biden has spent more than a few minutes thinking about his next race. he ran and won seven senate cam panes. he ran and lost two presidential campaigns. he ran and won two vice presidential campaigns, and today, he said goodbye to all that. >> as my family and i have worked through the grieving process, i've said all along, what i've said time and again to others, that it may very well be that that process by the time we get through it closes the window on mounting a realistic cam pane for president, that it might close. i've concluded it has closed. >> a realistic campaign.
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the window closed on the possibility of joe biden running a realistic campaign for president, which to him means a campaign that he could win. he saw a democratic party with a prohibitive front-runner in hillary clip ton and a strong runner-up in senator bernie sanders. and he saw every poll in which he was running third to them. and what he couldn't see in the time now allowed him was a way to turn third into first. every poll has shown without joe biden in the race, hillary clinton's lead over bernie sanders increases. and so a relieved hillary clinton called joe biden after his speech today. they no doubt exchanged pleasantries and well wishes. hillary clinton tweeted vp is a good friend and a great man. today and always inspired by his optimism and commitment to change the world for the better. in a statement, hillary clinton said i'm confident history isn't finished with joe biden. as he said, there's more work to do joe biden gave this advice to
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the democratic candidates for president today. >> this party, our nation will be making a tragic mistake if we walk away or attempt to undo the obama legacy. the american people have worked too hard and we've come too far for that. democrats should not only defend this record and protect this record, they should run on the record. >> senator bernie sanders rejected that advice tonight. here he is with chris hayes. >> we need a political revolution. we need to mobilize tens of millions of people to begin to stand up and fight back and reclaim the government which is now owned by big money. do i think that was the work -- was that the goal of the president and the vice president? not really. i don't think so. i think we've got to go further.
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>> joaning us now, michael steele, former republican party chairman and e.j.dionne, opinion writer for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst. also a correspondent for "the new york times" and msnbc contributor. e.j., with joe biden definitely out of the race, the first order of business today for hillary clinton and bernie sanders was try to get at those voters who would vote for joe biden were they in the race. hillary clinton did all the right moves. positive tweets. bernie sanders finds fault with president obama and the vice president. >> well, you know, bernie also got out there and gave a whole lot of gracious comments about joe biden. but the truth is that hillary clinton from the polls i saw today is getting at least 3 votes to 2 over sanders from the people who are for biden. there was one poll that showed
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biden at 15%. 9% of those people shifted to clinton. so i think on the whole, this is clearly good news for clinton. the kinds of voters who like joe biden, who are probably somewhat more moderate democrats, stronger in minority communities. so stronger voters more likely to go to clinton. there was a lot of celebration in clinton world today at this decision, but it was quiet celebration because it would be awfully nice for them to develop some decent relationships with joe biden. >> michael steele, if we discover, as i think the public information is as of now, that bernie sanders did not pick up the phone, did not call the president today, for me it's one of those markers about that campaign does not seem to know how to run a really professional campaign. >> yeah, i think there's a lot of truth to that. i think at this moment, the idea is twofold. one, to be gracious towards the vice president, thank him for
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his wonderful service to the country and to his administration, and what that does, number two, is begins to send the signals to his supporters, take a look at me. i'm a friend of the guy you liked in joe biden. so, you know, come my way. when you don't make those steps, pretty much to what e.j. was saying, you tend to lose that support. it tends to go elsewhere rather rapidly. and given the lack of support he has among african-americans, joe biden could be very helpful there. the lack of support he has among those folks on the fence between him and hillary, this type of misstep, i think, will come back to bite him. >> let's look at a poll and see what happens when you take joe biden out of it. hillary clinton goes up to 58%. that's the kind of number you can use the word prohibitive with as a lead. bernie sanders, 33%.
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and josh barrow, it's unclear if we were to look at what happened on the first democratic debate where all the polling was showing that was a hillary win in that debate, it's unclear what bernie sanders now does to close that gap. >> this is the situation that makes sense. the situation that was weird when it looked like bernie sanders was giving hillary a run for the nomination. there's no reason democrating shouldn't nominate hillary clinton. the democratic party, unlike the republican party is pretty ideologically aligned with itself. hillary clinton, like barack obama, like joe biden, is basically a standard issue democrat. on the policies that democrats care about. and so biden's proposition was hillary is is flawed in some way, is a weak general election candidate, i can be a stronger candidate. hillary is risky. no one was really buying that proposition. he's not going to run. it makes sense, you saw in that poll, his voters breaking 2 to 1 for hillary. somebody who is democrat, looking for a stan zard democrat
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to be president, it would make sense they would go for hillary. i would expect, i think things can change obviously, but i think it's likely that hillary is going to walk into this nomination and we're going to watch the republicans fight amongst themselves. >> the only difference any of us could find between hillary clinton and joe biden on policy was on the pacific trade deal, the transpacific partnership. e.j.dionne, the vice president issued a warning today that he will be out there campaigning against these democratic candidates for president every time they campaign against the president's pacific trade deal, which has not yet gone through legislatively. that is his job, the biggest achievement they have left on the agenda is getting that trade deal past. we may see some indirect biden debating in effect with the republican candidates for president. i'm sorry, the democratic candidates for president.
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>> in fact, most of the democrats in congress are going to vote against this deal. if it passes, it will only pass with republican votes. it is a very peculiar washington thing right now. and most democratic primary voters, if they have strong views on this are probably on the other side. but, you know, i don't think on the whole that hillary clinton is going to be running against barack obama's record. she was in that administration. she's probably going to put some distance between herself and obama on policies like the tpa where she thinks there's a political problem. but in terms of settling the race this early, just two months ago, people were talking about how much trouble hillary was in. then she has a great debate, and she really did have a great debate and we're close to nominating her. it's still a long process. i agree with josh, hillary is very favored. but those first two primary states are bernie's best shot.
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and so i think there's probably another round to go before we end it. >> i just want a note about tpp. there's a grand tradition about democrats making much more anti-trade noises during campaigns than when they govern. remember, barack obama in 2008 said he was going to renegotiate nafta if he got elected president. i think there's a recognition, even among democrats in the white house, i would assume, that hillary talking negatively about tpp doesn't necessarily mean she will try to undermine it if she becoming president. i think that may be a reason to give her a little bit of a pass. >> i was going to say it's all about volume and intensity. if you look at the way bibi netanyahu opposed the iran deal. that was the highest intensity version he could have done. if hillary clinton goes in that direction that's going to be fascinating. she can continue to just say she's opposed to it. it's an issue, i think, for the white house is how loud does she get about this?
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how intense does she get about this. and as we know, michael steele, it is traditional for trade deals to pass with more republican votes than democratic votes. that's how bill clinton passed nafta. >> this is an old song book and the pages are worn and tried. and we know exactly how the outcome is going to be. the republicans will line up with the number of democrats that they can get and they'll pass it. for hillary clinton, i suspect her op wrags will be, we'll down play it, won't talk about it a lot. she's mindful still of bernie's presence in the race and how hot some of his supporters can be. don't want to create an unnecessary noise that draws unnecessary attention to a particular issue, but by and large, will be in line with the administration. >> when the history of this presidential campaign is written, one of the most interesting moments is going to be that meeting with elizabeth warren and joe biden this summer in washington.
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i can't wait to read what that meeting was really about. we're going to take a break here. coming up, we're going to have breaking news in the house of representatives. paul ryan getting more support from the conservative side of the party in the house. he may now have the votes to be speaker. and in "the rewrite" tonight, what you will not see in the benghazi hearing tomorrow. and later, president obama wants to try a new way to fight heroin addiction.
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>> did you get the 80%? >> we did not get the 80%. >> 70% of the house freedom caucus voted to endorse paul ryan. paul ryan's reaction to that is next.
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change what's happening in the house. the ball is in paul ryan's court. >> luke russert reports tonight that speaker john boehner and majority leader kevin mccarthy have been trying to convince paul ryan to move ahead with a run for speaker and the feeling is now that he is ready to do that. and minutes ago, dmbz got this from paul ryan, this statement. i am grateful for the support of a super majority of the house freedom caucus. i look forward to hearing from the other two caucuses by the end of the week, but i believe this is a positive step towards a unified republican team. >> joining us now is a republican congressman, a member of the house tuesday group, which is a group of center right republicans. congressman, what's your reaction to the developments tonight? >> i think it's good news, and i think that all republicans are coming to the conclusion that paul ryan is the man, the leader that can help us advance an agenda that can make the american people proud.
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he is the man that can help us get congress to work for the american people and to leave behind all these petty distractions and the infighting that really is no good for our conference, but more importantly is no good for the country. >> and it sounds like the freedom caucus gave up on basically demanding conditions from paul ryan. >> well, i think they have probably reached the conclusion, and although it's not a formal endorsement, it's a defacto endorsement of 70, 75% of the members in that caucus are sup porting him. they realized the strategy they had adopted whereby they were apparently trying to veto every single candidate was just going to lead to a dead end and if we want to move forward ideas, if we want to show the american people that we can govern, that we can get things done here, we all need to unite behind a leader, and -- this is very
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important -- we need to set realistic expectations. we will set up every leader for failure if people go back to their districts and overpromise and say things like, we're going to repeal obamacare. we're going to defund planned parenthood. there's a constitutional framework that we have to deal with. and no minority in congress can impose its will on the country. so we need to be honest with our constituents if our leaders, if paul ryan, or anyone is going to be successful. >> when you find yourself in conversations with your republican colleagues, maybe some in the freedom caucus who believe that they can push forward some of these ideas like, you know, repealing obama care, for example, and you say to them, look, there's a president of the united states who is going to veto that if by some miracle we can get it through the senate. what is their response to you?
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>> well, that's the great irony. a lot of the members of that caucus call themselves constitutional conservatives, which, by the way, i consider myself a constitutional conservative, but that requires us, number one, to understand that the constitution is the product of many compromises and that it's okay to reach compromises here in washington, d.c. that's what ronald reagan taught us when he worked with tip o'neill and a democratic congress. it's what newt gingrich and bill clinton taught us, two people who really didn't like each other very much, yet found ways to get things done. i think everyone is coming to the realization that in this country, thank god, in order to get things done, unless one party has absolute control over the government, we have to sit at the table. and that means that no one is going to get everything they want, but as long as we're working towards our goals, a stronger economy, a greater
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nation, more opportunities for every single american, that's a good thing. >> is there anything that paul ryan is going to be able to achieve as speaker in the rest of this congress that john boehner could not have achieved as speaker? >> paul ryan is going to articulate in a very clear way an agenda that we can stick to, that we can commit to and that quite frankly the american people are going to buy into. paul ryan has myriad great ideas on reforming our anti-poverty program so that they actually work for the people we're trying to help, reforming our tax system so that it's fair across the board. and so that everyone gets a shot at success, and no where you know gets special treatment. these are ideas he's been working on for many years. now he's going to be in a unique
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position to advance them. all we have to do is look to his work in the ways and means committee. all of the time he has spent traveling this country, visiting impoverished communities, and seeking out the best solutions to give everyone a brighter future and a shot at success in this country, that's what we can expect for paul ryan and it's what a lot of republicans have been calling for. we cannot only be a party that is dedicated to opposing president obama. that's just not good enough. we have to articulate an agenda, a set of ideas and that's where paul ryan is going to help us a lot. >> just quickly, congressman, before we go, can you think of one legislative item that paul ryan can actually get through the house of represent is and then through the senate and signed by the president that john boehner could not have done? >> well, we just need to look at the past. paul ryan has already succeeded
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at working with republicans and the white house to get something done. look at trade promotion authority. there was a lot of opposition to that here. nanty pelosi and harry reid did everything they could to block it and paul ryan was able to get 28 democrats and strong majority of republicans in the house to work together for something that we believe is going to mean more jobs and opportunities in this country. so paul ryan has already proven that he can get things done, that he knows how to work within the constitutional frame work. that's what ke with expect to see from him. >> okay, so that example doesn't quite work for what i was asking for because john boehner got that done as speaker, too. we can continue this conversation for another time. thank you very much. really appreciate it. >> coming up in "the rewrite" what you will not see in that benghazi hearing room tomorrow that should be happening in that room. plus, why a conservative editor of "national review" says hillary clinton will win in 2016
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some republicans think the presidential election was already lost and hillary clinton has already won. donald trump disagrees. >> believe me, we're going to win this election, we're going to win the primaries, we're going to win the election, we're going to beat hillary. hillary has don a horrible job.
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she's not worthy of being our president and we're going to make this country great again. >> the senior editor for the conservative national review writes, why hillary clinton will likely win the white house. republicans have very little in the way of popular policy proposals to counter the appeal of liberalism. the republican presidential candidates have not built their campaigns on offering conservative ideas that would give any direct help to families trying to make ends meet. their tax cut proposals are almost all focused on people who make much more than the average voter. so far, republicans do not even seem to be trying to erode the democratic advantage on middle class economics. a new washington post poll shows that republicans now believe that donald trump is their best bet in the general election against the democrat. 43% say donald trump has the best chance of getting elected in november. 16% say ben carson. 13% jeb bush. 11% marco rubio.
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back with us, michael steele, e.j.dionne and josh barrow. what do you make of that national review criticism that republicans are not speaking to middle class voters. >> i was flabbergasted with excitement that someone actually had the tumerity to put it out there, the truth. this idea of governing is a foreign concept to many right now who are running for president. they need to have that conversation, i think he put it out there very accurately. >> so michael, as the race sits tonight, do you agree with ramesh that it's likely hillary clip ton will win the presidency? >> she has the advantage. there's a blue wall. the number of states in which the democrats have a decided
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edge. some 242 elakt ral votes to 109 for republicans. electorally speaking. there's also the messaging advantage. particularly on middle class economic empowerment. the conversation inside the party around jack kemp. there are a lot of folks who have been saying we need to go back to the future, if you will, in order to understand exactly how to communicate on some of these hard principles that we believe in economically. but we don't do that. instead, we get caught up in investigations to nowhere and conversations that don't make sense to a lot of people. so i don't subscribe that the end result will be a hillary clinton presidency yet. what i do see is an opportunity for some of these candidates, if they decide they actually want to start running for president. >> and we reported about republicans trying to assemble money to do attack ads on the republican front-runner, donald trump.
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let's listen to what rush limbaugh said about that today. >> i have never seen, ever, a political party try to take down its front-runner. i mean, not like this. and i don't care what you think of trump but he's the front-runner and you would think the republicans want to win. >> e.j., rush has never seen anything like it. >> for the first time in 100 year, i have to agree with trump. it's a very unusual thing. and i think what's fascinating about trump's piece -- ramesh is a loyal conservative who has told his side's inconvenience truths. i think this is an important one. and one of the reasons trump is strong is because republicans have gotten a lot of votes for a long time from working class republicans. and they haven't gotten much
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back for it. now trump may not give them much back for it either, but he is appealing to their anger and their unhappiness. eni think the other problem republicans have in taking trump down is that party is now very much an anti-immigrant party. 63% of republicans think immigrants are a burden on the country as opposed to strengthening it. that's true of only 32% of democrats, 36% of independents. so his anti-immigration argument has a real base inside the .republican party and that's one of the reasons why he's been holding up. >> the republican frontd runner is polling down below where the democrat second place candidate polls. hillary clinton is now at 58%. that's front-runner stuff. the republican front-runner is down at 28, 25 in these polls. and peter hart's focus group of republicans in indiana said this about donald trump -- they said
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i like what he says but now how he said it. 10 out of these 12 republicans said donald trump would divide the country as president. 8 of 12 of them said the trump presidency would make the united states lose respect in the world. and the words they used to describe trump, divisive, loud, self-serving. those sounds like reasons why the republicans might want to get another front-runner. >> the rest they said is immense rage. they've been loyal to the republican party all this time and gotten nothing out of that. i think this partly explains the mystery. people have been waiting for months for the dobd trump collapse that hasn't come. part of the reason is that republican voters hate this field so much that even if they can identify problems with donald trump and even if they aren't entirely sold on his style, they're not ready to go support marco rubio or one of these other people. trump is the one person in the field really talking to those middle class economic concerns.
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part of the solution is he's actually addressing a real problem in the republican party. >> but his tax proposal is a big giveaway. michael steele, e.j.dionne, josh barrow, join me tonight. appreciate it. tomorrow starting at 9:00 a.m. eastern, msnbc will begin coverage of the testimony before the benghazi committee. and up next the benghazi committee's biggest mistake. ♪ ♪
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americans in the lean of duty. here's what you will not see at tomorrow's house select committee on benghazi hearing. >> what did the president know and when did he know it? >> a simple question. you don't see that. what did the president know and when did he know it? 11 words that captured the essential purpose of the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities which investigated the break-in at the watergate office complex and in process drove richard nixon to resign the presidency, the first and only time in history. that that happened. the watergate hearings were by far the moe important investigative hearings in the history of this country. and they were not left to amateurs. no one has ever run for the house of representatives or the senate on the platform that he or she will be the best investigator ever elected to congress.
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investigation is not congress' main job. it is something that occasionally congress finds that it has to do. and in the past, the more important the investigation, the more likely the senators and the representatives would leave the real work to professional investigators. the wise legislators elected to congress who went there to get involved in the complex business of responsible governing knew they were not good enough investigators for the watergate investigation. the members of the water gate committee knew that they were not likely to think of or ask the best investigative questions, so they hired special counsels to the committee. one for the democrats, one for the republicans and they handed over most of the questioning to those lawyers who were not elected to anything. but were much better than senators or members of congress at asking witnesses questions.
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the republican counsel was a young lawyer named fred thompson who would later when a senate seat himself. the counsel for the democrats was sam dash who became a giant media star at the time, both by his performance in the committee room and by handling press questions outside of the hearing room. no senators were jealous of all the media attention that sam dash was getting because they knew that sam dash and fred thompson were doing a better job of conducting this investigation than they could themselves. >> mr. butterfield, as far as you know for your own personal knowledge, from 1970 then until the present time, all of the president's conversations and the officers mentioned and the telephones were recorded? >> that's correct. >> and as far as you know, those tapes are still available. >> as far as i know, but i've been away for four months, sir.
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>> i have no further questions. >> mr. butterfield, just a few questions. i think mr. thompson's questions have pretty much elicited most of the testimony. i think what you were saying most times in the white house itself, either in the oval office or in the executive office of the president where there was a locator light, whenever the president moved and the locator light moved to where the president was, it triggered the microphones. >> there's the democratic counsel saying that he has very few questions because the republican counsel has done such a good job of taking nixon aide alexander butterfield through his bombshell testimony about the taping system richard nixon had in the white house. you won't see any of that kind of bipartisan professional, respectful and cooperative interaction tomorrow.
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here are a couple of sam dash's follow-up questions. >> it was your understanding that this operated on an ongoing basis daily? the system operated on an ongoing basis daily. >> yes, sir. >> to your knowledge, did the president ever ask while he was in the oval office to have the system not operate? the light not -- the locator not show in that office so as to trigger the device? >> no, sir. as a matter of fact, the president seemed to be totally really oblivious, or certainly unhibted by this fact. >> oblivious and unhibted. that is what you will see in the benghazi hearing room tomorrow. you will see members of congress who are oblivious to what real investigative questioning is and completely uninhibited in exhibiting their obliviousness. you will not see a member of
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congress ask a simple 11-word question or a simple question of any length that captures the essential purpose of the now very confused benghazi committee. you will not see special counsels to the committee asking questions in a professional nonpolitical manner. because in the committee's previous hearings only members of the committee have been allowed to ask the questions. so unless the chairman is suddenly wise enough to rewrite that policy tomorrow, you will only see members of congress grabbing their moment on camera with their questions. imagine if 21st century versions of fred thompson and sam dash conducted moe of the questioning of hillary clinton tomorrow in that hearing. calm, respectful, careful, nonpartisan questions by a republican lawyer and a democratic lawyer who are not seeking re-election, who are not trying to make head leans, who
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are not trying to affect hillary clinton's poll numbers. imagine that. such a serious and professional investigative hearing with only one witness could be completed in a couple of hours instead of the marathon all day affair that the committee has planned for tomorrow. the only way to turn that hearing into an eight-hour session is to waste enormous amounts of time on irrelevant questions and questions that are really cam pane speeches. so enstead of seeing what you should see in a properly run congressional investigative committee, instead of seeing highly professional and respected investigators on each side of the committee asking pertinent, revealing questions, you will see politicians questioning or making speeches to or arguing with a politician. a politician arguing with a politician is called a debate.
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and i don't mean to kill the suspense, but we already know who the best debater is in that room tomorrow. >> this committee is basically an arm of the republican national committee. it is a partisan -- [ applause ] vehicle as admitted by the house republican majority leader, mr. mccarthy, to drive down my poll numbers. big surprise. and that's what they have attempted to do. i am still standing. n percent on car insurance. yeah, everybody knows that. well, did you know that playing cards with kenny rogers gets old pretty fast? ♪ you got to know when to hold'em. ♪ ♪ know when to fold 'em. ♪ know when to walk away. ♪ know when to run. ♪ you never count your money,
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language was studied to determine what grade was needed to understand. donald trump spoke at the lowest level of the candidates, fourth grade level. ben carson, running in second place among the republican field spoke at a sixth grade level. hillary: ton's announcement speech was delivered at an eighth grade level and bernie sanders made it all the way to the high school level. his speech was delivered at a tenth grade comprehension level. coming up, president obama's new fight against heroin addiction. we live in a world of mobile technology, but it is not the device that is mobile, it is you. real madrid have about 450 million fans. we're trying to give them all the feeling of being at the stadium. the microsoft cloud gives us the scalability to communicate exactly the
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ew. dish issues? cascade platinum powers through this brownie mess better than the competition, the first time. cascade. (patrick 2) pretty great.ke to be the boss of you? (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro. >> more americans now die every year from drug overdoses than they do in motor vehicle crashes.
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more than doi do from car accidents. the majority of those overdoses involve legal prescription drugs. >> that was president obama in west virginia today, part of his new plan to fight drug addiction is to expand access to medication-assisted treatment. >> there is evidence that shows medicated assisted treatment if done properly in combination with behavioral therapy and other support and counseling and 12-step programs and things like that can work, it can be an effective strategy to support recovery. but it can't just be replacing one drug with another. it's got to be part of a package. so we're going to identify any barriers that still exist that are keeping us from creating more of these treatment facilities.
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and incorporate them into our federal programs. >> the president has given federal agencies 90 days to identify those barriers to develop ways to remove them. joining us now, peter schumlin delivered his entire state of the state address to the heroin crisis in vermont. thank you very much for joining us tonight. we really appreciate it. how did vermont get to a stage of heroin crisis? >> just like the other 49 state as the president pointed out today, we are passing out oxycontin and other painkillers like candice. with irrational exuberance. in 2010 we passed out another oxycontin in america to keep every adult american high for a month. in 2012, we passed out 250 million subscriptions. enough to keep every american with a dose for that year. so, you know, we shouldn't be surprised that as we pass out these painkillers,really without
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thinking before we do it, we then drive people to a cheaper form of opiate, which is heroin. we've got to change the way we disfda approved legal drugs sold and dispensed, mostly by the health care industry. >> when you devoted your entire state of the state address to this, were you hoping for what we' seen today? were you hoping for an effect beyond just vermont? >> absolutely. in the respect that every governor is facing this. this is a huge challenge. this is really a crisis. and i can tell you in the little state of vermont where wr we value our quality of life, this is one thing that will take us down. folks i addicted to this stuff will steal, lie, cheat, do anything to get it. our job is to stop treating it different than any other disease, discriminated against this disease.
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and instead say this is a sickness, this is an illness, get folks into treatment, get them the services they need, invest in their future, get them back to work and stop just locking them up, throwing the key away and hoping when they get out, somehow magically they're going to come out of prison better than when they went in. >> governor, what would you suggest to the president? did you hear everything you wanted to hear in that speech today? >> i did. he said listen, first important thing he said is we're going to start educating prescribers, doctors, nurses, other health care professionals about how adibtive this stuff is. the manufacturers of that drug, oxcy con tin lied to the docs about it and said this isn't addicted. go ahead. they paid huge federal fines, they pleaded guilty. but they did dupe the health care industry. so the president said listen, let's start educating docs about how to stop passing this stuff out with such irrational exuberance. secondly he said let's pump up treatment and get folks into recovery, back to work, back to good jobs.
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and third, he said let's expand rescue kits so that we stop losing good people to this disease just because they refuse to their save lives when they o.d. all three of those are important. you can get a little discouraged. he has an fda that not only has approved oxcy con ton. two weeks ago, they approved oxcy con ton for children. you've got to be kidding me. now we're going to put kids on this stuff. just a year and a half ago, they have this advisory board of docs that voted 11-2 not to approve the next oxcy con ton, which is called zohydro. i call it oxcy con ton on steroids. the fda overruled their own advisory panel and approved it. now it's on the market. we need help from the fda. we need everybody in to say we've got to have a conversation in this nation about painkillers. we've got to stop pazing it out like it's candy, and we've go the to start to have a much more rational approach to the drugs we're getting everybody addicted to.
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>> thank you very much for joining us tonight, governor. chris hayes is up next. >> no more biden his time. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. joe biden wants to run for president and made clear he wants to challenge hillary clinton for the democratic nomination. what is stopping him is not the commitment but the timing. >> as my family and i have worked through the grieving process i have said all along what i have said time and again to others that it may very well be that that process by the time we get through icl

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