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tv   Up  MSNBC  November 21, 2015 5:00am-7:01am PST

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mali one american was among the victims. >> and one week after the attack that took 120 lives, there's ceremonies across the city to remember the victims. we continue our coverage of what is global story of terrorism. let us get details on the news breaking overnight. a security lockdown overnight. as i mentioned, the belgin
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government is raised to it's highest level. the belgin prime minister said it was based on intelligence but didn't share details. he said that several gunmen w h withwith guns and bombs could hatch the in several places. reuters reporting that at least one of the men is can suspected of scouting locations for the terror attacks. heavily armed police are patrolling the streets. the subway is closed until at least tomorrow. they are telling police to avoid large gatherings. joining me live from brussels. good morning, claudia, what can you tell us.
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>> reporter: well, brussels is completely unrecognizable today. i'm in the city center behind me, you can consider the old stock exchange, and this is usually a quiet neighborhood, nothing much really happens, and in terms of terror threats, well, maybe, the only neighborhood around here that has been in the eye of the storm, if you may call it like that, is the mall and back, which is just a 10 minute drive from here which is where a number of people in the terrorist attack came from. and today we wake up with soldiers in the streets, they are guarding shopping centers, sensitive sites, including we're seeing american hotel chains, even mcdonald's. there's a military assault vehicle parked right outside of that building behind me, the old stock exchange, and of course people here are confused, are concerned, but also angry
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becau because these security measures are affecting our everyday life. the subway system is shut down, large gatherings have been cancelled. people have been told to stay away from crowds, they're not used to this and this is the third time the threat level in this nation has been raised to number 4, the highest, that means there may be a concrete and serious threat of an attack. we have talked to people in the streets and one of them said he doesn't like it a bit, this way he says the terrorists would have won. chris? >> it's 2:00 in the afternoon, and claudio, i went out this morning just to see what to the activity was, but i would not say by any stretch of the imagination, this is a busy saturday in paris. what about in brussels? how busy are the streets?
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are people going out much at all? >> not really busy, not really out there in the streets a up to an hour ago, and it was midday to 1:00, it would with be as many soldiers as there are people. they were just running around confused, everything is shut down, everything is closed, we have seen a shopping center that was open with not many people outside, very strange for a saturday morning of course. and we are hearing that most of the shopping centers will be soon closed as well to prevent of course people to gather into sensitive sites that may become a target. of the terrorists, chris. >> the shopping centers are open here, but they are checking your bags as you go in, claudio who is in brussels for us. joining me now, veteran counter terrorism officer malcolm nance who was a director of the terror
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offense project. what can we clean about the nature of the threat, the president seems to think something else could be imminent. sounds very similar to what we heard last weekend here the in paris. >> reporter: this is actually extraordinary, whatever intelligence the belgians have it must be strong, it must be definiti definitive. what they're carrying out in bruszales is a definitive operation. they're put ing enough manpower on the street to stop terrorists who may be in the last phase of execution of their attack, just momentsor hours or days before they actually go on the street and carry it out. they're going to see if the terrorists they may have under surveillance are going to blink and see if they are going to work around this or extricate themselves out of the country. i think we're going to learn some very interesting things in
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the next couple of days. >> do you expect this conflict going on in france since last weekend, more than 800 of these searches of homes, they're really casting a wide net here. it's similar to france, however the operation in france, is what we call counter terrorism. which is activities after the fact, which is counter terrorism. they are carrying out operations before the fact, with an effort to disrupt, break and actually gain in intelligence to see if any of these cells who they may be surveilling, again may actually move or move to another target or actually move from safe house to safe house. again it's -- when a nation makes this choice, it means that they are going after them proactively. and they have enough information to make that choice. >> belgium obviously is a similar location, but why else malcolm has it become such a hot bed for terrorists? >> belgium is sort of different from france in that to tell you
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the truth, the muslim community in belgium is small, but it's very coe herive, and they're not involved with anything within them. the isis members, the al qaeda sympathizers, they create these little, how can i put it, private jihad zones within that community which is completely separate from them. they are fish that swim within to the sea of that community, but large numbers of them found that they were off the radar and didn't have as much intelligence collection as the netherlands, france and germany. within that community, we just moved in there. and we see hundreds of people during the iraq insurgency and now as members of isis. and in comparison to france, it's a very, very large number. >> counter terrorism expert malcolm nance. we're going to take a look at
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recent reports at isis members who could be planning a chemical attack. right now, though, we wants to turn to mali and those new details we're learning this morning about friday's terror attack on a hotel in the capital city that's popular with foreign visitors, american development worker anita datar has been identified as at least one intelligence victim that has been confirmed dead at the radisson blu hotel in bamako. now authorities are searching for more than three suspects in the attack. a viewpoint and african affairs specialist. given your best knowledge of that continue innoceent, do you evidence that that attack in mali was inspired by the attack
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we saw in paris? >> i strongly believe that those attacks in paris would have been -- those mali is a country for which al qaeda has a very strong connection, and they have been able to recruit, especially when a lot of the military came from libya, another country that's not too far away, so we know them very well, what we have seen in paris clearly has a direct link with what we're seeing in mali. and we already know that to the police have a huge presence in mali. to fight the terrorists, be it's sis, us islam or al qaeda. >> one of the few really
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luxurious hotels in that country, and in addition to that, they have 24-hour round the clock security. what can you tell us about the counter terrorism efforts in mali. and big picture, and small picture, what might have gone wrong here. >> well, no doubt, we must realize that this is a fragile state and these neighboring countries are all fragile and so the terrorists are able the to infiltrate, go unnoticed and expand their control and territory and maintain their hold. we must understand that in the case of mali, the u.s. already has a special place on the ground, we have had a huge presence there since 2012 when we were able to push some of these terrorists away. and we already know that there's an african union-led force through the united nations that acted, and that's all signifying that the malian government and the security force are unable to
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be able to protect, to be able to infiltrate and to make sure that these groups do not maintain a hold in their own country. >> so what's going on on the ground, are there other attacks out there, are there other cells out there? what's happening on to the ground to answer those types of questions. >> the current area of terrorism that we are in right now caused a huge challenge for the terrorism services. the sort of poisonous ideology that they have, and it's expanding at a far faster rate than they have been able to cope with. and of course we are already seeing that the next generation of young individuals are joining these ranks, so ultimately this is looking very much like a generation that's lost, that's never going to the come back, and ultimately security forces understand that and they're going to intensify their
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operations, and work closely, because the terrorists are very much a global phenomenon and i think it's going to the take more than individual countries to resolve what is potentially a huge, huge problem for the world moving forward. >> african terrorism journalist isaac johnson, thank you very much. and we will bring you more about the investigation of the mali attacks a little bit later on. i want to return to the activities here in paris. vigils were held and people let candles at the exact time of the paris terrorist attack. joining me now usa today contributor, maya vadon who's been reporting here in paris. it's good to see you. those of us who lived in new york after 9/11, feel as if we have sort of a kinship and understanding of what it feels like to come under attack, how
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are you feeling and how are you coping? >>. >> reporter: the people still come here, they want to show they have in solidarity and i think life has in a way one week later, returned to normal, although not everything is normal. >> i will say that as i have gone out last night in particular, thinking it's another friday night, looking in cafes and restaurants, there didn't seem to be a lot of crowds. there didn't seem to be a lot of people. do you think that is motivated by people just wanting to sit
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close to people they love? >> reporter: i do, i went out and i was on the shoulder of my husband. there were a lot of people out there walking in the streets. the only thing that's really different is that when walking into the event, we were searched, not only our boags wee searche searched--it feels like anywhere you go in now, for example there's a book fair, and it's pretty much the same as if you're taking an international flight, you have to go through drastic security measures and metal detectors as if you're going to take a plane wherever you go in paris now is. >> do you think the political approach has changed as well?
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our "charlie hebdo" friend that lives here says we don't want -- now there seems to be more reaction to this state of emergency, for example when you go into a grocery store, there's a security officer goes through your bag, do you think that leap has been made to change people's mind set about that? >> after "charlie hebdo," things were a bit different because the satirical publication had been targeted and jewish grocery store had been targeted. there were specific targets, in this very case, all of france has been targeted. so, yes, this is quite different in a way. and all of france has reacted. everybody feels under stress now. we all have learned to expect the unexpected.
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and that is going to last for a long time. as you know, the state of emergency has been prolonged. and yuan unanimously in parliament for three more months, and this means for three more months we will be reminded every step we take in the streets of paris that these events took place because there wouldn't be security and they would be random arrests as i witnessed last night and we were surrounded by four police officers, they had stopped the car and they were searching his vehicle, his car. they were searching a truck, they were searching everywhere. there were four of them, it's quite impressive to see this in paris. i have seen other random arrests, with three policemen on a bicycle, arrested, a man who seemed to be wondering sus
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punish suspicio suspiciously. and this is what we are the victim of, enhanced security measures but we have in a way accepted them because they are also reassuring that there is security is reassuring. and also they are suspicious bags, and all of a sudden a kids' school bag becomes a potential weapon and my husband witnessed this, you know, people were quick to, we're told to move away from the bag, the suspicious package with, you know, it was near a dumpster and the dumpster could have been noted as well. we don't know. >> and that's how, if this changes your mind set, when you start to think about just a children's backpack. >> exactly, it's changed at
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every level of society. our children have been affected deeply, a monitor of our son's college waskill ed. >> i'm so sorry. >> the kids were very -- amazingly, one of the messages, they laid flowers and candles and left notes in memory of their monitor. whom they actually really loved even though he was strict at times, they said oh, it doesn't matter because he was supercool. be and one of the notes left by a little girl said you are new at our school, but you will stay engraved forever. >> very beautiful in its simm police city. maya, thank you very much. we appreciate it. coming up as authorities in brussels raise the alert level.
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measures being taken to bolster security in major cities across the u.s. stay with us. i had the shootin burning, pins-and-needles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet grew up in a family of boys... married my high school sweetheart... and pursued a degree in education. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and she prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda-approved to treat this pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new, or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain.
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this follows other videos that contain images of new york
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city and also references to washington, d.c. both of those cities have increased security presence on the ground. new york relay saying a task force of 500 officers. but the governor saying there's no credible threats to the u.s. >> we are not aware of any credible threat here of a paris-type attack and we have seen no connection at all between the paris attackers and the united states. >> i'm joined now by retired three-star admiral and candidate for u.s. senate, joe sestak. you were the chair of the terrorism committee. is that you you would be be going if you were to the u.s. officials leading the security charge right now? >> yes, i would focus on that,
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but that wouldn't be the major focus i would have. what we have to recognize is isis is no longer just an international terrorist organization. it is more than that. it actually controls territory that is the size of belgium i i it's a coalition of the willing. and its may also include nations that are adversarial to us like russia and iran. assad may not directly threaten us, that brutal dictator of
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syria. therefore we want to have those nations pivot with us in a balance of power, bringing states together to take down the demise of the state of isis, that's the change that i would say our nation is bringing about. >> there is a relationship with russia, obviously the u.s. and russia have been at odds about -- just this week, u.s. warplanes targeted nearly 300 trucks used by isis to transport oil. we have seen russia's defense minister saying they have destroyed over 500 more trucks, they have also hit refineries, and what more should the u.s. be doing that it's not doing already? obviously these kinds of strikes targeting their source of income. >> what we have to attack as you ce said is their infrastructure,
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they're getting a billion dollars a year from oil, from selling wheat. what we need to do is track down until the french was given intelligence by us, the government institutions that are actually running that state. and second as you have read recently, what we were doing is going after the refined products of the oil. we weren't going after the crude. so they were still getting upwards of half a billion a year. isis is only able to do what it does because it has about $2 billion in assets. it is taking in literally well close to a billion dollars by ran rans rans ransom, taxes and other things. so we're putting forces to help the forces in syria, or to help the forces in iraq is a massive change to make the demise of the
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infrastructure that helps them to get revenues and we have to do that. but i would also say this, unless we diplomatically bring together those nations that have troops on the ground and have them do the ground confrontation, particularly in syria, like russia, or iran that has already lost 3,000 soldiers there and have them pivot and against the demise of a common enemy, isis with the cost will be too much for us to do. that's the real key under secretary of state kerry. >> retired navy three-star admiral, retired congressman joe sestak. thanks for being with us this morning. >> u.s. officials confirm that an american woman is among those killed in friday's siege of a luxury hotel in mali. at this hour, the associated press reports security forces are on to the hunt for more than three suspects involved in that attack. we'll get the latest from mali after this. t a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done?
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in just the last couple of minutes here in paris, the skies have really opened up behind me. but we have had a visit from a couple of officials. to the german chancellor, in the last several hours that have come here to pay their respects. we are also in the after math of a siege in mali. u.s. officials have now confirmed that american development worker anita detar was among those killed. the thorlts are searching for more than three suspects in that attack. kira simmons is in mali for us. al kira, what can you tell us? >> reporter: i'm standing outside the hotel and now chris, it is very quiet, to the hotel, as you would expect has been cleared out. there's smashed glass.
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i have a fair degree of mali security forces here, investigating. i can't see any here now, but i did meet one north american man, who tells me chris, to get his luggage back, he was wheeling his bag down the street, along the street, having gone to get it. he told us that he hid in his room. his shooters hung in the hotel. while two of them have been killed, three they say they are on the loose. that makes potentially five shooters into the hotel, inge discriminantly witnesses say, and shouting fw ining god is gr moved from room to room killing people as they went along. some people say they asked them to recite verses from the koran and those who would not were
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killed. and they do appear to have been quite effective. more than 20 people kill canned, but that's a lot less than the some 170 who were in the hotel. they were held by the bway by forces by other countries including american security agencies and came to try to rescue the guests in the hotel. >> kira simmons who is in mali for us where that siege took place yesterday. crowds gathered here in paris yesterday to mark one week since the deadly terror attacks to pay tribute to those who were killed. we'll have more on what we're learning about the victims after this. well, this is a first. at&t and directv are now one. so get ready to laugh here and cry here. scream over here and freak out over there! and maybe go back to laughing here. and crying there. try not to laugh here though, it's rude.
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a serious and imminent threat without sharing the details of why. heavenly armed police are hitting key locations in that city, the public has been advised to avoid place where is large groups would gather. and which have new information into the investigation of the attacks here in paris. in turkey, officials say they have three men in custody, one of them scouting locations ahead of last friday's attacks. i'm joined by kelley with the latest. >> reporter: hi, chris, we have confirmed these three have been arrested and detained in turkey. a lot of the details about what kind of role they may have played in the paris attacks, they may have come from state run news out of turkey. there are two syrians and one belgian now being detained. the belgin is 26-year-old ahmed jamani. they were tracked by turkish
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intelligence, and one of them picked up at a luxury hotel. two others picked up at a road nearby. according to turkish state media, they're reporting into syria from turkey and taken to belgium and escorted back to the border. we are also getting reports, again, unconfirmed by nbc news, but there are reports that the belgians arrived in turkey, on the 14th, the day after the attack from amsterdam. again unconfirmed at this mointd, but that raises the question again about travel throughout europe and alerts from these guys. >> one of the things they're looking at with the eau and they're also pointing out if people are wondering where have i heard that, that's where the
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g-20 met. president obama was one of the leader who is met there. i want to bring in laura haim, laura is a colleague of mine here to tell us more about the victims of the paris terror attacks. every news organization is a family, those who work together at the white house is a family. i was heart broken to hear that you're family was hit especially hard. your group lost ten people in the attacks, what can you tell us about those individuals, laura? >> can i say nbc the parent company of nbc universal, there was a lot of people who went to the concert, some of them were working as editors for a very
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famous program. they were full of joy, there were between 25 years and 40 years old. they just wanted to have fun on friday night. and we have decided that we have to walk, we have to go on in their memory, and we have to do our job and try to do the best job because if we don't work, and if we don't leave, the terrorists are winning. and we don't want that to happen and i think in france, all of my friends at nbc universal, yesterday night they did dinner in their home with a lot of young people, they wanted to sing, they wanted to take action in what we call, the joys of living, to make sure that we are going on with our lives and we are not afraid. >> you know, we just had also,
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laura, a reporter on from usa today, and she was saying that one of her children lost a mentor, somebody who was at his or her, i'm not sure college. but you start to realize when it is someone so young and surely everyone who was lost, the young people who were at that concert have many, many friends your own ways. it's perhaps the first time they have ever felt a loss close to them. in addition to feeling the horror of their city being attacked, they're learning what it's like when you lose someone who is close to you, right? >> yes, that's something which is interesting and it's a critical difference i think between the united states and france. all of us, with foreign journalists coming to the united states and when you have a drama happening in the united states, you see people the following day on news program, talking about their loved one, crying and it
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helps them, it's again, in my opinion, a therapy. in france, we're doing the opposite, when someone is dying, most of the people do not want to speak about their loved one, they mourn in silence and they just want this person to be honored by what this person was doing. so it's very different in the two countries. i'm not saying it's good or bad, i'm just saying the cultural difference in a time of grieving is interesting to observe. again, the french people are resilient. all of us, we just want this country to go on, it's going to be difficult, it's going to be challenging, as you can see, because i know you're in paris, chris, you can see that people are coming, you can see that people are singing, you can see that people are playing piano in the street. there was a very powerful moment for my colleagues, today i heart
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someone describe to me a scene and he said there's a man who arrived and he began to play the piano and he plan to play "imagi "imagine." that's what we have in mind, this person playing "imagine" to make sure that we can still dream. >> laura hail, white house correspondent sits in the briefing room with me at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. so good to hear from you, i hope to you see back in the united states very soon. and the rain has started to come down so hard in the last 10 or 15 minutes or so, but people are still coming to the plaza de public to pay their respects. donald trump facing intense
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backlash after telling nbc news he would institute a database to keep track of muslims in america, we'll have more on that coming up. i brought in some protein to get us moving. i'm new ensure active high protein. i help you recharge with nutritious energy and strength. i'll take that. yeeeeeah! new ensure active high protein. 16 grams of protein and 23 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in. can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought.
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we're back from paris on a rainy saturday where we're following breaking developments out of turkey as well. authorities say police there have detained three men in connection with the paris attacks. reuters reporting that at least one of the men was scouting possible target locations for isis. and as authorities here in europe continue their search for culprits in the attacks, back in the u.s., the 2016 presidential candidates are laying out their plans for preventsing similar tragedies. here's what donald trump told an nbc reporter on thursday. >> what about a system to track muslims here in this country. >> we should have a lot of systems, and in this day and age you can do it, we have to have a list, we have to have a law.
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is. >> how would that work. >> it would stop people from coming in illegally. we have to stop people from coming into our country illegally. >> how would you actually get them registered. >> what you have to do is have good management procedures and we can do that. >> are you going to mosques to sign these people up? >> all different places, but it's all about management. >> donald trump started out by blaming at least one of the reporters that were asking the questions. but given the substance of what he was saying, the controversy is unlikely to go away easily. joining us to talk about the increasingly heated rhetoric against muslims on the heated campaign trail. j. joi williams, president of
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the borooklyn chapter of the naacp. and it looks like the canning dats are trying to outtough the other ones. when donald trump first started talking about the anti-washington sentiment. now there's this fear and what do you think it might mean for his candidacy and others' candidacy for that matter. >> i'm not exactly sure what to make of trump's comments, and the reason why is the more things he says in this con text, the more his poll numbers go up. but let's talk about that for a second, he really does speak to a fear that many americans have in this country about the overall direction of the country, but also the direction of the civilized world. but his question, the nbc reporter asked a really good question and donald trump controlled the answer there. and the answer is really troubling. i don't know how you quote unquote registering all of these
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immigrants into a database system. what about the substance and the message behind that, it's tantd mount to the nazis rounding people up and putting tattoos on them basically marking them as a different type of person. donald trump needs to be specific here. after all he's running for president and he really does need to be accountable for his sometimes over the top remarks. >> l.j. williams, where do you see this going? i mean there is a lot of fear out there. we have seen the individuals coming out of isis, we have heard threats from washington and new york city, but there's no credible threat as the . >> first of all this isn't leadership, what we need as concern public, concerned citizens, some people are in fear of what we see going on across the world and here
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domestically, what we need are leaders who are speaking to us about what the country is going to do to continue to keep us safe and not play into the fear and help to increase that. and that's exactly what folks like trump and other candidates are doing, they're playing into people's fears and hyping it up rather than leading and showing real leadership to be leading this country. can you imagine donald trump being president and this happening and him continuing to press fear and saying we need to round people up and mark them and put them in a database. not to mention by saying this blanket statement of muslims, there are millions of muslims who are citizens of this country. so it is not good management as he would like to say and it is not a definition of a leader and definitely not someone we need as president of this country. >> report trainer, former
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and every day for as long as my doctor tells me. don't miss a day of brilinta. we have live reports from brussels, where a state of emergency is now in effect when authorities raise the threat level to its highest level. we'll also talk to dallas, texas mi mike rawlings. a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive.
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it takesi'm on the move.. to all day long...ss. and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost. now try new boost® compact and 100 calories. i'm chris jansing in paris as we continue our live coverage of multiple unfolding stories. we begin this hour with the latest details on the news that's breaking ovr ing overnig. the city of brussels is on
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lockdown this morning. the city government has raised its alert to it's highest level, they say they face a serious and imminent threat. he said that several people with arms and explosiveses could launch an attack, some with explosives. and now bruszales authorities have three men in custody, especially for scouting locations for the attacks here in paris. and heavily armed police are patrolling the streets here in paris. the subway is closed at least until tomorrow. and the government is also recommending the canceling of large events at least this weekend. nbc's claudio lavagnia, what's the latest from there? >> we are hearing that more and more venues are closing down in the 19th district that make up this city, now we're hearing swimming pools, public
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libraries, even cemeteries are being closed down. but it's left to the single districts to decide what is closed down and what is not. we are here in the real city center where i've just been ow out on the street and we have seen, well, one restaurant out of three possibly that is still open, but we are seeing places closing down every hour, so this is really a city in lockdown right now. we also spoke of course to the folks down here who we can up to effectively what it looks like a military zone and they told us that they are of course concerned but also confused and angry. >> reporter: were you surprised that this terror threat level was raised and are you worried? >> yes, and i'm surprised, and i definitely do not like it. it doesn't female comfortable when you're faced with the military in your neighborhood for the time being. it's very sears, that's for
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sure. >> do you feel threatened? >> no, i don't, but i give it some consideration, i should have used the metro today so that's not possible, so it does influns my life. >> do you feel frightened by this warning? >> i don't feel threatening and i have seen in this before, but i think it's stupid. i think you let the terrorists with win, now we can't do anything, we're just paralyzed by fear now and stu pitd, it's not necessary, i think. it's a bad thing that it happens, the terrorists and all the attacks, of course, but now it's they're exaggerating. it's not going to help anybody like this. just letting fear rule, stupid. >> here and there, people here, are simply not used to live under a terror threat. this is the quiet city of
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brussels, the home of european institutions and this is literally only the third time the terror threat was raised to number four. that's the highest level in the history of this country. >> claudio, i'm sure that at some point we'll start to get some numbers on the economic impact of this. but as you have been able to see, at least a part of the city, and you were out asking some of the people about their opinions, what are you seeing? what's open? what's not open? is there any sort of continuity to what you're seeing? >> reporter: the shops and venues continue to be closed down by the hour, basically the least of places that are being closed down is just growing and growing. we have just received a note by the government that says that's for instance, public libraries and movie theaters, exhibition centers, museums, every place that could attract large numbers
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of people, essentially it's seen here by the authorities as a potential target for the terrorists. >> nbc's claudio lavanga in paris. american aid worker -- the associated press is reporting that the authorities are now searching for three suspects in that attack. kira simmons is in mali for us with the latest. >> reporter: good morning, the jihadists who carried out the attack on the luxury hotel behind me here may still be on the loose. three are being hunted. the malian president has declared a state of emergency while the state department is urging americans to limit their movements animally's capital. the search for killers in the radisson hotel was assisted by two american security agents.
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this morning it's not clear how many heavily armed gunmen it took to ter rised guests, including americans. two of the jihad its were killed. the attack started as breakfast got under way. >> they killed everyone, said a hotel employee, they went room to room, releasing those who could prove they were muslim by reciting passages from the koran, killing those who couldn't. malian security forces responded to the attack, who happened to be close by. >> malian security agencies rushed in to help people to safety. and american security forces rushed in to help secure the area. >> reporter: but by then, at least 20 people were killed, including american aid worker
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anita datar from maryland. a family spokesman this morning. >> we're devastated by the loss of our wonderful daughter who was doing the work that she loved. >> reporter: the group claiming responsibility, an african jihadist organization, which is link to al qaeda not isis. renewing the threat of global jihad. and this attack being carried out by an isis affiliate has got people worried that isis and al qaeda may be in competition to carry out these bloody massacres. >> that was nbc's kira simmons for us in mali. and joining us back in paris, time corporate vivian. what draws the clouds here? >> there's really a different feeling from even a week ago. i think two things draw them here, i think people have a sense that they really want to be together, they need some kind of place to come, and just feel
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like parisians are joining together and sense that they're not so isolated. and then the other thing is, i think there's been a really marked shift in the atmosphere in paris in the last two days. ever since the police announced that they had killed the mastermind behind the paris attacks, you can almost feel the sense of relief in the city. and ever since then, the city has essentially been coming back to life. >> one of the remarkable things and i have spent time every day walking afternoon this circle, around the fountain of the plas a de public. people who seem to be strangers, coming together, hugging, talking, sometimes crying, sometimes laughing, occasionally someone will bring an instrument, there will be singing. there seems to be a coming together of people from all walks of life. >> this happening by the way all over this part of paris and every site there was an attack
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in eight days ago, you see people, total strangers coming out of their houses, placing flowers, talking to each other, sharing the experiences of where they were. there really is a sense that everybody could identify with the victims, it could have been them, they were just ordinary people, this is not like the "charlie hebdo" attacks which specifically targeted certain groups. this was just regular norm al parisians doing what they always do, going to sidewalk cafes, listening to music, it could have been anybody. >> to give you an idea of where we're standing, you go in one direction, there's actually the place where an american were killed in a cafe. and then you go to twalk into ay
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store, you walk into a clothing store, you're being searched. airport security is being set up in some buildings. how do you think parisians are responding to that. >> there's been public opinion polls, overwhelmingly, parisians are saying we don't care what it takes, we'll live with security, we'll live with american post-9/11 security if we have to, we just want our city back to normal. >> do you think there's still a lot of fear? >> reporter: undoubtedly. firstly there is one of the attackers still on the run, although it appears that he is in belgium. and i think that today's attacks in mali don't get -- there was something like 150,000 malians living in france, most of them in the paris region. you know, this is a whole region that has been rocked by terrorism and as your correspondent put it so rightly,
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there's a competition about who's going to be the deadliest terror group. and that's partly what we see playing out here, for ordinary parisians, they just want to feel like they can cget back th city that they know and love and that they recognize. >> thank you so much for coming in and for welcoming us to your beautiful city where we are now. >> authorities in mali are searching for three suspects in the deadly attack there. coming up we're going to talk about why that west african nation is significant in the global fight against terrorism. stay with us. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring,
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with an easy open cap.
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i'm richard lui in new york. we'll get back to chris jansing in paris. here this hour, we're following
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the breaking news coming out of belgium this saturday morning. the government there raising the alert status in brussels to the highest level because of the threat of an imminent attack. the public is being urged to avoid large crowds at this hour and we're still keeping a an eye on the investigation into the terror attack in mali. president obama a addressing the press late last night. take a listen. >> we will stand with the people of mali as they work to rid their country of terrorists and strengthen their democracy, with allies and partners the united states will be relentless against those who target our citizens. >> we know that anita datar was killed in that siege in the city while a three-day period of mourning is set to begin in the
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city. middle east policy advisor and former ambassador to morocco. ambassador, always great to see you here. i want to start with that question that kira simmons really posed, this competition between al qaeda and isis and what we're seeing happening in mali and belgium as well as in paris and your thoughts on that? >> i think for our viewers, the best way to look at this is to take a page out of west side story, this is a competition between the jets and the sharks. and particularly the al qaeda in north caafrica, you have the organization which is the al qaeda which has largely established a base of operations in mali since 2010. the french came in to root them out because these countries in sub saharan africa are largely muslim and an area that al qaeda parasitically grabbed on to and
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using the using their base for al qaeda. although boko haram, an affiliate has associated with it. but it's largely this competition of libyan based isis fighters against an organization headed by a man or a terrorist call called with one eyed algerian leader. >> describe what you think what the status and the ability of the efforts now under way to fight al qaeda in mali. >> the french have had a military presence since they beat back that islamist insurgency. they had a foreign legion division there. they have had air, they have had jets, they have had counter terrorism troops there for some time. it was actually president
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hollande who deployed those troops in mali to fight this insurgency, they thought they had it defeated, but between the continuing struggle between isis and al qaeda for dominance in sub saharan africa, it appears that belmokhtar was able to establish a base in mali. >> is this a retaliation for the french in 2013. >> it's hard to tell what motivated this because it obviously had to be pretty well planned, richard. but mali has been in effect a link between boko haram and nigeria and the sub saharan forces particularly in southern
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algerian where there have been attacks on al leer swran pipelines and libya has descended into a total failed state. and let us not forget, that t e tunisia is the largest contributor into syria and iraq as any country in the middle east. >> that's a good point, talk about the ecosystem there in sub saharan africa. >> when you do the accounting of how many foreign fighters travel to north africa to fight for isis as well as in libya and iraq and syria, by far, the largest number come from morocco, algeria and saudi arabia providing the rest. we're talking about a huge underground railroad of fighters that are being funded and facilitated from mali through morocco, algeria, tunisia into libya. >> is it underground?
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we're showing the map there of mali, is it free flowing through the borders? >> it's interesting after they make it into libya, how do they make it across into turkey to make it back into sierraasierra syria and iraq. that's where the attention needs to be. because the fighting is being recruited in order to make their way to join isis. >> key item you're watching for that to be stopped, to be pushed aside and meters down, this free flow of talent? >> i wrote about this in "the huffington post." how much the governments of algeria, tunisia and morocco need to strengthen their border controls. and this points out the enormous challenge we face with turkey, that has done an insufficient job to drop the flow of fighters from these other arab countries into fighting, helping to support isis. >> thank you so much for your
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perspective on what we're watching there in africa today. >> sure. later in the hour we'll take a closer look at isis, we'll be assessing in that discussion the discussion of the strength of iraq and syria and their networks worldwide. already, we'll be also joined by charles dolpher who led the investigation of saddam hussein's program of wmd. ono off-days, or downtime.ason. opportunity is everything you make of it.
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capabilities, either obtaining or isis somehow having a factory where they could make chemical weapons. >> reporter: let me start with the good news, and that is two years ago, the foreign minister of russia and secretary kerry agreed on a process where we called on bashar al assad to get rid of his chemical weapons. and he has. but the bad news is that isis has the money, they have the territory and they have the will to do this sort of thing, to obtain chemical weapons, if nee have the will, you can buy them or you can make them. in the case of buying them, as ambassador ginsburg said in his previous segment, there's lots of flow of isis into south
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africa. isis had certain stocks and it's not clear if they got rid of them. there's reports that there's mustard rounds that still exist and they may have falling into the hands of isis. there's talent that could make chemical weapons and that could be done by isis in iraq and syria. >> how complicated is it, how many people have the ability to do this? >> well, it's a difficult process, it takes a certain amount of talent. but i would remind you and your viewers that in 1995, there was a doomsday cult in japan which produced sarin gas and deployed it in a japanese subway system to effect and this was a fairly sophisticated nerve agent. so it's well within the capacity of sophisticated scientists who
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apparently are willing to sell their talents to someone who has the money and resources so it's not an unreasonable concern that isis could obtain in the not too distant future. >> intelligence officials say, and the attack you mentioned in japan, a dozen people died and any loss of life is terrible, it is not a has casualty situation, but the fear it spreads can be massive if people are worried about the air they breathe or the water they drink. that's another possibility they have talked about, somehow poisoning a water supply. >> i think, chris, poisoning a water supply is less likely. but exactly as you point out, it's the creation of terror, if, you know, in a large crowded space there's even asarin, thin terror that would create. i don't think that's useful in a military sense, they're not going to be the useful in the
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terrorists fighting them. it's not going to cause them to leave or submit to their will. it would not surprise me that they would be seeking these types of weapons, but they have plenty of other ways of terrorizing people as the attack in paris demonstrated, crazy people willing to give up their lives with conventional arms can do a lot of damage and create a lot of fear, so if you're doing a rather sick cost benefit analysis, it might be easier for them to use conventional munitions and conventional explosiveses which are readily available. >> fell us about the movement of conventional weapons, even being able to track people who have the ability to work in a lab where it could be created? >> well, of course you don't know what you don't flow. i suspect they have got some pretty good notions of where these people may be and some of the activities. i would watch for any facility which gets bombed, you know,
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beyond recognition, because in a case whether your bombing something where you think there may be the production of chemical munitions, you want it destroyed in a way that incinerates all the material there and different just spread it around, that might be one marginal tipoff that you would see, when the united states bombed places that they thought there might be chemical munitions, may be obliterated in a way that you wouldn't see a normal target. >> your expertise valuable and fascinating. thank you so much for joining us. and coming up, we'll take a look at the economic impacts the terrorist attacks are having here in paris. we'll be back on msnbc life after this. the flig you want.
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security officials in belgium are citing a serious threat. and the public is being advised to a avoid places where large groups gather. we're taking a tour of how the economic impact is already being felt. >> reporter: it is a cold and rainy day here in paris. but even still, here in paris, the city of lightses is absolutely beautiful. behind me you can see the famous theater of notre dame. and you can see the eiffel tower peeking out of the mist in the clouds. and usually this time of year, paris is relatively full, this
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is the most popular tourist destination in the world. but here in the wake of the terrorist attacks, there are certainly far fewer tourists in town. when you go to the actual sites, it's very eerie to see the heavily armed guards patrolling out in front of notre dame or out in front of the louvre museum. they say many people are calling and canceling their bookings, we went to the boats, the famous boats that travel along the sen. school groups have pulled out because they have decided it's just not safe enough for school children to be on the boats. in the restaurants, it's a slightly different story, restaurants are relatively full. particularly because a lot of parisians are purposely going to eat outdoors, and they're taking pictures of themselves and
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posting on social media, telling the terrorists they haven't changed their lifestyle. i did come across one american couple who saw the terrorist attacks on tv and decided they were not going to cancel their trip, they said that is exactly what the terrorists would want them to do. they're here having a wonderful time and are enjoying their trip and they are encouraging people who are planning to travel to paris not to cancel their plans. >> what's the biggest concern here? >> i think the biggest concern is how long it lasts, already this week, restaurants were down about 50%. the hotel business was down by 60% or 70%. there was concern after the "charlie hebdo" attacks there would be an impact on tourism here in the city, but that turns out not to be the case.
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they're saying 2015 is shaping up to be one of the best years on record. they do have forecasts for the month of december. restaurants are expecting sales in the month of december to be down by 30%. already this week they had many people calling in to cancel group parties, to cancel holiday parties and hotels expect their business to be down about 30% to 40% as well. "charlie hebdo" was a very targeted attack, this feels much moran come. if nothing happens, it seems like things will get back to normal sooner. after the "charlie hebdo" attacks, the city did bounce back s. >> this city bringing people from all over the world, one of the things that happen when you have an event like that, you get protesters who come in from all over the world, they stay in hotels, they eat food, now large public gatherings have been banned.
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>> and now these protesters are going to have to go through the new national borders that have been erected. they were erected immediately in the wake of the attacks, but they were going to be erected anyway. but they have been been erecollected sooner. but there's questions about how long the -- the stronger a truck driver has to actually show a passport before he goes through the checkpoint, the more that will take a toll on the tourism and the economy. we will talk with dallas, texas mayor mike rawlings joining the debate on whether or not to let syrian refugees settle in the u.s. with the people we love. for stuff we can't get anywhere else. and food that tastes like home. because the money we spend here... can help keep our town growing. on small business saturday,
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place where people who in other parts of the world are subject to discrimination or violence, that they have in america a friend. and a place of refuge. >> that was president obama in koa koa koa koala lumpur. so far 30 governors have pledged to do what they can to stop syrian immigrants from settling in their states, while the mayors in 18 major cities in the u.s. said americans should welcome refugees with open arms. one of those is our next guest, dallas, texas mayor michael rawlings. >> mayor, as you know, governor greg abbott has told groups that
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help people settle here in the united states to stop helping syrian refugees. let me play a little bit of that for you. >> as the supreme court of texas as well as being the governor of texas i can tell you what the law says and it says that these refugee programs need to cooperate with the states in order for them to cooperate with the states, they have to follow the instructions that i have provided. >> do you think, mr. mayor, that governor abbott has a point that there is legal standing here? >> well, what the courts and the judiciary decide that. governor abbott and i agree on so many points, safety of texans, safety of dallasites is paramount in his mind and my mind as well. i would ask those people to consider that words do make a difference in this tough time. how we deal with refugees makes a difference.
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first of all, we want to get rid of isis, we all agree with that, an isis wants us to be divided on this issue. isis wants us to demonize these syrian refugees, want us to alienate these children. we have got to build a coalition of mideastern states and we need to reach out, they're muslims and we have got to use the words carefully to show them that we care about them. isis is no more islamic than the nazi senior staff was christian. so we have got to dedifferentia between the two. also as citizens of the united states, how we're changing because of this issue. and i think we need to think very careful as a christ following folks like myself, how would we deal with this issues
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of strangers and are we going to let them in? >> you were quoted in the "dallas morning news" that all of this keeping of the syrian refugees is falling into isis's trap, what did you mean by that? >> just as i said, they want us to say these are bad people. so other folks in the gulf states and throughout the arab world will say, see? they don't like us. and that's not true. these are evil human beings that are doing terrible things, and we need to target our aggression and our planes against them, not children, not refugees. and if we do that, then the true self of america of will come forth, the true self of our american city also come forth and it will be easier to pull people together to fight this terrible enemy. >> do you understand, though, the concerns that people have that there could be someone who could slip in with the refugees?
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how confident are you of the systems that are put in place, whether it's the aid syrian refugees who are coming into the border of texas or people that bring people into this country more more formally for resettlement. and there's no guarantee and there's 1% is what makes them concerned. >> what is my concern is the same as governor abbott. we have got to make sure they're safe. this is a 21-step process to get in, 18 to 24 months to jump through these hoops. this is a serious issue. i am more fearful of large gatherings of young white men that come into schools, theaters and shoot people up, but we don't isolate young white men on this issue. i was out in the streets last
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night in dallas. looking at a great part of town that has had some recent robberies. those are the things that mayors are concerned about. this is a big issue. and we as a nation must step up and make sure we're secure. but we must not do things that changes the soul of who we are as well. >> dallas mayor mike rawlings, thank you for coming on the program. >> it's good to be here. >> the attacks in paris have also sparked heated debate on the presidential campaign trail here in the united states. and how donald trump's comments about muslims are playing out among his fellow republicans. >> reporter: after another controversy, donald trump's clarifying. >> i was signing books and there was music blairing in the background. >> backtracking, blaming background noise for an exchange
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with nbc news, about tracking muslims in the united states. >> i would certainly immeplemen that. absolutely. >> what would be the difference between nazis making jewish people register, is there a difference between requiring muslims to register than jews? >> i want a database for the syrian refugees that obama is going to let in if we don't stop them. >> reporter: as jewish advocacy groups denounced his remarks, so are democrats. >> i don't think we should be engaging in the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that i have been hearing from some of the republican candidates. >> his republican rifles? >> you're talking about closing mosques, you're talking about registering people, that's just wrong. >> i'm a big fan of donald
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trump's but i'm not a fan of government registries of american citizens. >> reporter: trump still the front runner at the top of our survey monkey online poll, though absent from this forum in iowa. the loudest voices were saved for slamming president obama and hiss national security strategy. >> in the after math of the paris attacks, we had democrats spending more time attacking republicans than they did telling us how they're going to attack isis. >> we're going to take a look at the terror organization's true strength. stay with us. how you doing? hey! how are you? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪
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in turkey, authorities have arrested three men in connection with the paris terrorist attacks. with these recent attacks? paris and egypt, it would be understandable to view isis as a worldwide terrorist organization much like al qaeda, and that's certainly what isis wants you to think. but could isis be a lot smaller and weaker perhaps? in the same weeks of the trif s terrorist attacks, the -- there are questions about how well funded isis really is. nbc news reports the entire paris operation likely didn't cost more than so,000. while it's indisputable that
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isis has come from mere obscurity to -- we talked about -- an msnbc contributor joining us to help us understand the real extent of isis's threat. we can both acknowledge that ning who's been touched by the horror that has been touched by this isis organization. for them, size, money, any of that can be replaced. what do we flow about the size of isis for starters? it remains a big question mark, but it is much larger and a bigger threat a given what we have just said, as you just said, actions in egypt, and
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actions in paris and whole jim, so it has the ability to deploy people. and despite us decimating a good number of its senior management, it continues to develop and sort of demonstrate an ability to maintain command and control and to create horrible things that are happening. it is large but the u.s. government has said that it has deployed 13,000 or 14,000 people that have been affiliated or fighting for isis in one way or another. lib >> we have also seen just in france for example the amount of weaponry they have had, including weapons of war. but what do we know about weapons they had on the battle field.
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>> as they expand other allies against them. we had cases in syria where some oofts so called moderate syrian forces were actually selling isis weapons systems. they have been able to come by very, very large weaponry. . and we have seen saudis. where there's the machinery they have on hand, the weaponry they have on hand is very significant. >> steve clemmons of the atlanta. thank you so much for being with us on this saturday. . the war against isis is taking place not only in the air and on the ground. the group anonymous has been
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waging awar against isis in syria. >> reporter: they wear identical masks shutting down websites and posting private information online. in a spring of videos, the declaring war on isis. >> we will retaliate. not with violence but with our intelligence about hacking. >> reporter: the videos in many languages went viral, prompting widespread support. it's about time someone has a good effective plan, says one tweet. keep up the fight, i just hope the world governments are doing their part offline, says another. the target, the relentless isis propaganda campaign on social media. some anonymous members claim to have gotten more than 5,500 accounts suspended with more than 100 isis websites shut down since the group first went after isis more than a year ago. experts say making a dent in the isis social media machine won't be easy because banned accounts can be quickly renamed.
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>> someone easily can change their name. it's whack a mole. it's ineffective. >> reporter: even so, a stanford university expert on cyber security says what anonymous is doing can be a useful nuisance. >> when you get harassed, you're less effective in doing your work. and so while they're recovering from the harassment, they're not doing as many bad things as they were before. >> reporter: the government welcomes anything that weakens terrorists but some in the intelligence community don't want isis taken off social media because it's a place where potential recruits can be tracked. pete williams, nbc news, washington. nbc's harry smith will continue our coverage in the next hour. he'll be talking to one of the leaders of a struggle for free syria who spent weeks in prison for that effort. i'll be seeing you here a little later on today. msnbc's live coverage will continue right after that. opportunity has no slow season.
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good morning. this is msnbc's continuing coverage of the terror attacks in mali and paris. i'm harry smith in new york. in belgium, officials have raised the terrorism alert level in brussels to the highest possible level amild precise warnings of paris-style attacks. police and soldiers have been deployed across the city and brussel's subway system has been shut down as people are being urged to avoid public places. some of the terrorists had ties to brussels, including the alleged organizer. in turkey, police detained three men in connection with the attacks in paris. according to the news agency, one of them is suspected of spouting potential targets for the attacks of a week ago

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