tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC May 23, 2016 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
senator, chris murphy, thanks for joining me. that is "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> thanks for you to joining us at home. happy monday. this was a busy "newsday" today. president obama is in vietnam, where he ended the decades-long arms embargo against vietnam. president obama also announced that a u.s. drone just killed the head of the taliban. didn't see that coming. the head of security at the tsa just got fired today in a scandal that is not exactly about the giantly long tsa lines we're having at the country's airports right now, but it is related to that, and it also involves a giant bonus that he apparently got, plus the word "smurfing" is involved. we'll get to all of that in a moment. we also learned this afternoon that the fbi is apparently investigating virginia's democratic governor, terry mcauliffe, which means virginia is now officially turning into illinois, with one of its
governors appealing his conviction to the supreme court while at the same time, his successor in office comes under federal investigation we've got eyes tonight on santa monica, california, as well, where bernie sanders is about to start holding a big campaign event sat santa monica high school. we'll be looking in on that a little bit later on in the show. and we're going to have the latest tonight on the freddie gray trial. six police officers are on trial in the death of a man named freddie gray over a year ago in baltimore. the first officer's case that produced a verdict -- excuse me, the first officer's case ended in a mistrial. today, the second officer's trial ended in a verdict. it ended in the officer being acquitted on all charges. so eyes on baltimore tonight, as that community takes in that information and responds to it. eyes, frankly, on a lot of these developing stories. it has just been annews day over the day today. and some days in the news are like that. some days you get a million stories breaking in a million
different places all day long. stuff going all day long. some days, like today, are like that. some days, the day proceeds calmly, like any other day on earth, like any other day in the news, until you get one big unexpected and very strange-looking thing to happen and disrupt the whole "newsday." and that is what happened last tax day on april 15th, in downtown washington, d.c.. >> good evening. a small gyrocopter piloted by a florida postman caused quite a scare today when it flew apparently unchallenged into highly restricted airspace into the center of washington, d.c. and landed on the lawn of the u.s. capitol. the capitol went into immediate lockdown, as police searched the aircraft for explosives. >> they say things never move fast on capitol hill. today was an exception. >> this is not good, people.
>> coming in for a landing on the lawn of the u.s. capitol, doug hughes onboard what's called a gyrocopter. >> everyone was shouting, move, get down, move! >> reporter: the 61-year-old mailman from ruskin, florida, was looking to deliver a message to washington, demanding an end to big money in politics and government corruption. carrying 535 letters, one for each member of congress. it was a daring act of civil disobedience that also happened to be a federal crime. hughes made no secret of his plan, alerting the "tampa bay times" last year. >> i'm going to violate the no-fly zone, not violently. i intend for nobody to get hurt. >> reporter: he acknowledged the risk to his safety. >> i don't believe that the authorities are going to shoot down a 60-year-old mailman in a flying bicycle. >> doug hughes, last year, mailman, got on to that flying bicycle, and he indeed pulled off that audacious stunt he had warned he was going to pull off. and that stunt, the gyrocopter landing on the u.s. capitol grounds, it did not, in the end,
succeed in getting everybody to focus on campaign finance reform. it did, in the end, get everybody to focus at least for a little while how it is possible to fly a gyrocopter into the most tightly controlled airspace in the u.s. and land it safely on the u.s. capitol grounds before law enforcement gets a handle on what you are doing. he's caused quite a stir in terms of d.c. security. doug hughes, the mailman, is not a crazy guy. he did not do what he did maliciously. he was honestly trying to focus attention on this problem of campaign finance reform. he thought this stunt would be a way to do it. ultimately, just about a month ago, doug hughes did get sentenced to prison for what he did. prosecutors had asked the judge to lock him up for ten months. instead, he got four months in prison. 120 days, which is still a lot. i don't think that he has actually reported to start his prison sentence yet, but after he serves his time, he will also then have to do a year of probation. and that combination of the sentence and having to report to
prison and having the probation afterwards, paying that price for his gyrocopter stunt also, apparently, forced him to give up on his other big idea for getting attention to his cause, other than flying a gyrocopter on to the capitol. his other big idea to get attention to his cause was to run for congress. he was going to run for congress in his home district of south florida. doug hughes, until last month, until about a week before his sentencing, he was a declared candidate for congress in the democratic primary in florida's 23rd district. now the democratic incumbent who holds the seat in that district somebody you might have heard of. she's a member of congress in good standing. she is also the chair of the democratic party. debbie wasserman schultz. when doug hughes, the gyrocopter guy got out of that congressional race in anticipation of his sentencing to prison last month, he got out
of the race against debbie wasserman schultz and threw his support, instead, to another challenger who is running against her in the democratic primary. he threw his support to tim canova. and it is tim canova's campaign to unseat debbie wasserman schultz in her home district, that is the race that sent up the rocket's red glare in democratic politics this weekend. >> you've been calling for a revolution. in florida, are you with wasserman schultz or are you with her opponent? >> well, clearly, i favor her opponent. his views are much closer to mine than is wasserman schultz's. and let me also say this with all due respect to the current chairman, if elected president, she would not be reappointed to be chair of the dnc. >> senator bernie sanders this weekend, taking time off from running for president to throw his support behind the
non-gyrocopter guy, trying to unseat the chair of the democratic party from her seat in congress. senator sanders followed that up on sunday afternoon with a appraisering letter on behalf of the non-gyrocopter candidate who's challenging debbie wasserman schultz. tim canova says that fund-raising letter from bernie sanders earned his campaign more than $250,000 in a day. and $250,000 is a nice chunk of money when you're running for congress in the democratic primary in florida. if you're looking for evidence of the democratic party turning on itself, if you're looking for evidence of internal warfare within the democratic party, this little story here about debbie wasserman schultz having a primary challenger in the democratic primary, that's a great example, right, if you're looking for intraparty fighting inside democratic world. there's nothing that members of congress hate more than a primary challenge from their own party. and democrats supporting primary challengers to try to turf their
own colleagues out of their congressional seats, that's not like putting a whoopee cushion on somebody's seat at a big, important meeting, ha-haha, that's like slashing somebody's tires in political terms. you're sitting member of congress and you're going to support a primary challenge to another sitting member of congress? that's the kind of thing that makes members of congress mad. but if you were wondering if what is going on in the democratic party right now is serious, if you are wondering how serious the internal fighting is inside the democratic party right now, i think there are two things to know. and the first is specifically about this story from florida. with bernie sanders basically trying to throw debbie wasserman schultz out of her congressional seat. what you need to know is that although bernie sanders may want to throw debbie wasserman schultz out of her seat in congress, he is probably not going to throw debbie wasserman schultz out of her seat in congress. and you know, anything can happen. i cannot predict the future. i'm just speaking based on the
statistics of what we know of that district. i mean, it's -- we will have a real answer to this soon enough. the florida democratic primary is august 30th. we shall see when that happens. but, i will tell you in advance, that hillary clinton beat bernie sanders in florida by a mile. overall in the state, she beat him 64 to 33%. she beat him by 31 points in the state of florida. and debbie wasserman schultz's district in south florida alone, in that specific congressional district, the margin was even bigger. in that particular district, hillary clinton beat bernie sanders 68 to 31%. she beat him by 37 points. and so, i am sure it is really annoying if you're a member of congress to have a fellow member of congress from your own party to throw bombs at you in your own district and support your challenger and try to cost you your seat. i'm sure that drives you nuts. but if you had to pick a particular adversary to do that to you, you would probably pick the guy who lost in your district by 37 points, right? bernie sanders has run a powerful democratic presidential
primary campaign, but there are states in this country and specific districts in those specific states where he has really not held much sway at all. and this part of south florida that we are talking about here, this part of south florida that debbie wasserman schultz represents, this is one of those parts of the country. and i said there were two things to know to tonight about this fighting within the democratic party and how serious it is. and part of it is that florida story. but beyond just that florida story, there are also a number of indications, just in today's news, even just in this afternoon and this evening's news, there are a number of indications that the internal warfare inside the democratic party that has freaked out so many democratic observers in the last few weeks, that has so transfixed the beltway over the past couple of weeks, there are a number of signs today that it may be taking a turn towards peace, or at least it may be taking a turn toward over.
>> we are coming to the end of the democratic primaries. i applaud senator sanders and his supporters for challenging us. we are going to get unaccountable money out of politics, we are going to take on the prices of income inequality. and we are going to unify the democratic party and stop donald trump! >> hillary clinton taking to sciu, the big service union, saying, i applaud senator sanders. i applaud senator sanders and name checking some of his central issues, saying income equality, saying those are going to be the issues of her campaign now, too. she also said quite pointedly, we are coming to the end of the democratic primaries.
bernie sanders campaigning today in california. his stump speech definitely still has some direct shots in it against hillary clinton. but not as many as it used to. and as the campaigns and the dnc have started to talk about what role the sanders campaign and senator sanders himself should expect at the convention and in the party going forward, senator sanders, at one point today, proclaimed himself pleased, that was the word he used, pleased with how those negotiations between him and the party are going, and in terms of what his campaign has been able to get from those negotiations so far. >> well, i am pleased with the distribution of secretary clinton has six members on that committee. we have five. and the dnc will have four. and i think we'll be in a really strong position to make sure that the platform that leaves that drafting committee is the strongest platform that the
democrats -- democratic party has ever seen in terms of representing the interests of working people. >> senator sanders today declaring himself pleased with a big concession that the democratic party just made to him. "the washington post" first reported that this might be coming on thursday night. we saw it come to fruition today. it's about the party platform. there are 15 people who drafted the democratic party platform at the democratic convention. under the party rules, the chair of the party can appoint all 15 of those people. the sanders campaign had previously been very upset, very displeased that they didn't have better representation on the important committees, including the one writing the platform. well, today, the dnc announced that instead of debbie wasserman schultz appointing all 15 members of the platform committee, they divided up. hillary clinton would get to appoint six people. bernie sanders would get to appoint five people. so that was basically proportional to the amount of the vote that each of them have had received in the primaries. six for clinton, five for sanders. six plus five equals eleven. there's 15 people on the
committee overall. the other four people would be appointed by the party. that's a big change and a big concession by the dnc. and it does mean the sanders campaign,substantively, they'll have a big role in writing the democratic party platform. which should make the democratic platform rating experience an exciting thing. it also means that one of the democratic candidates out on the stump today says she applauds the other one, and the other democratic primary candidate still out there today is telling reporters today that he is pleased now with his treatment by the democratic party. that's different. she's applauding him, he's pleased with his treatment by the party? what you are smelling there is not smoke. turns out nothing is burning down after all. one other sign that things may be headed to a peaceful ending here, comes from that e-mail that senator sanders sent yesterday about that candidate that is challenging debbie
wasserman schultz. and it's a provocative thing for him to be funding a primary challenger to debbie wasserman schultz in her home district. but that e-mail also said that the sanders campaign is about to announce a dozen or more additional candidates who bernie sanders wants his folks to support. who he wants his folks to support and send money. it has been an interesting hallmark of the sanders campaign that he has raised a ton of money for his own campaign is this area, because of $250 million, but he has raised almost nothing for other democratic candidates. hillary clinton has been doing joint fund-raising with the democratic party. he has not. instead, senator sanders picked out a group of three house candidates who he named a couple of months ago, who he said his supporters should also support. there was this one candidate from florida who he named this weekend and he asked his supporters to support, but that's been it in terms of directing any of his supporters to fund anybody else running for office.
in terms of broadening his campaign to bring anybody else along with him. well now the campaign, after having done three candidates a little while ago and one this weekend, now they say they're going to greatly expand that, they're going to put out other candidate who is they want the sanders army to march behind. and that may be a sign of a candidate who is thinking about starting to convert the effort on his behalf into a broader effort, a broader effort to try to push the party and the country more in his intersection rather than only pushing for his election. as we steam toward the june 7th contest in california, and the other five states that vote on the democratic side that day, the big flashing red light in the democratic primary is money. and nobody's talking about it that overtly these days, because they don't have to, until they have to put in filings, but the money issue is now a very, very, very big difference between hillary clinton and bernie sanders.
the last time there was a democratic primary in 2008, california was actually not right at the end of the process that year. it was on super tuesday, along with a bunch of other states, so california didn't have the outsize importance it has this year when it's the last day on the calendar and such an overwhelming number of delegates and basically the goalpost at which everyone's been kicking soccer balls the whole year. even though it wasn't like that in 2008, even though california was just one of the number of states voting on super tuesday in 2008, both hillary clinton and barack obama that year spent about $6 million buying ads in california, just to compete in that one primary. about $6 million each. $6 million is more money than bernie sanders had in the bank in total at the beginning of this month. so, competing in california, hmm. he has placed about $500,000 in ad buys in the state in total. it's unclear if he has the option to even increase that if he wants to. for now, the sanders campaign
says it is focusing on organizing rallies in the state. and rallies are great. they are a staple of the sanders campaign. this is one we're watching in santa monica, california, tonight. even when they're very large, rallies are still, by necessity, a pretty small-scale organizing tool in a state that has nearly 40 million people in it. there will continue to be rallies. there will continue to be an ostensible democratic contest. the sanders campaign and the clinton campaign and the democratic party are showing signs, especially today, of starting to turn around and turn together and start pulling in the same direction. the clinton campaign did announce tonight that it has declined an invitation from the fox news channel to have one last debate with bernie sanders in california. the sanders campaign is complaining about that and loudly. but the reason the clinton campaign does not necessarily
have to care about that complaint is because this primary campaign may not yet be over, but it is ending. and there will be fits and starts. but it is starting to seem like it will end without anybody burning down the democratic party. we shall see. there's always tomorrow. but that's how it was in today's news. my face can unlock this computer. that's crazy. macbooks are not able to do that. "hey cortana, remind me we have a play date tomorrow at noon" i need that in my world. anything that makemy life easier, i'm using. and windows is doing that.
finding the fake security threat, 5% of the time. five times out of 100, is not good enough when you are in charge of airport security. last year, in tests, the transportation security administration failed to catch fake knifes and fake bombs and fake guns in airport screenings, 95% of the time. tsa failed almost every time, in tests by the department of homeland security, which overseas the tsa. tsa promised to fix what was wrong. there were attempts at improvement are, in part, what's led to these epic lines that we're currently experiencing at tsa checkpoints and airports.
in a congressional hearing, lawmakers asked about allegations that the agency had singled out tsa whistle-blowers, who had tried to make things better at the agency. lawmakers also questioned a $90,000 bonus that had been paid to a top tsa manager in charge of security. they accused the tsa of basically disguising the $90,000 bonus by handing it out to this manager in nine separate payments in $10,000 each. that kind of strategy for dividing up money has a name. it's called smurfing. even though smurfs do not necessarily have pockets in which to put nine checks of $10,000 a piece. little tiny blue $10,000 checks. but lawmakers this month demanded to know why the head of tsa security got that $90,000 bonus in nine different checks. while tsa security officers were routinely failing to catch fake bombs and fake knifes and fake guns at security checkpoints, and now tonight, that official
at tsa, the guy who got the bonus, structured weirdly over nine payments, he has been relieved of his duties. the tsa did not give a reason for reassigning him. he did not say where he has been posted to. but the next time you find yourself waiting at a gate in a line that seems to only get longer, if you ask to speak to a manager, it will not be him. had marco rubio been running (man) hmm. what do you think? ♪
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all that beltway love potion spilled for a guy who won one state. and it was a caucus state. it wasn't even a primary. who knows if he would have even won that one state, had it not been for the fact that it was this strange beast that's called a caucus. but now, despite that seminole role in marco rubio's ascension to king of something, minnesota is no longer going to be a caucus state. after bipartisan criticism of awkward and basically inaccessible caucus process in minnesota this year, democratic governor mark dayton has now signed a bill to make minnesota ditch the caucuses and start doing primaries again. thus sending marco rubio to lake woebegone. the one state won by john kasich this year was his home state of ohio. and there's also news today out of the great state of ohio, and that is the strange news that even though donald trump vanquished his last opponents and locked up his presidential nomination, basically, three weeks ago, donald trump's campaign has still not sent a
single staffer to ohio. "wall street journal" reporting today that donald trump has no general election staff in that state and he has made no contact with the state republican party. hillary clinton is still fighting bernie sanders on the democratic side, and she has staff in ohio, but donald trump still doesn't. nada. also, same deal in florida, apparently. nbc news first to report today that the donald trump campaign has set up zero infrastructure in florida for the general election. i mean, if there are swing states, there are swing states. and there are no swing state ifs ohio and florida aren't them. but apparently in ohio and florida, the trump campaign feels no urgency. in florida, the clinton campaign has opened a general election headquarters, her campaign is setting up a field team, they're planning voter registration drives. she's actively campaigning there already. trump, so far, nada. nothing in ohio, nothing in florida. part of the year he lives in florida. is this some sort of psych-out
three-dimensional chess or something? or am i just missing something here? joining us now is mark caputo, political writer for politico and a longtime political reporter. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> i know that we're between five and six months out from the election and that's a long time in politics. it does seem notable to me that there's no trump effort underway in florida thus far. is there an effort we just can't see or is there nothing yet? >> that's a good question. it's a simple question with a complicated answer, which is yes and no, they are meeting about it and are planning to do it. part of the problem that trump has in florida is this was kind of the heart of never-trump, remember? there was marco rubio who was a candidate and jeb bush was a candidate and their respective camps and the folks that work for them don't really like donald trump. that being said, donald trump has some really seasoned people who are in florida. rick scott's former campaigning in many 2010, susie wiles, she's on trump's team. she lives in jacksonville.
tony febrizio, top national pollster was recently hired by the trump campaign. he was a mastermind been rick scott's improbable win as well. there are a few other people who are in rick scott's orbit, who know how to win florida elections. that doesn't mean that donald trump will. it doesn't mean he won't. they are certainly behind, but they're not fatally behind as far as organizing in florida. >> so he doesn't have a big effort there. he does have good people there. >> right. >> who know how to win the state. is it possible to win the state in a few months. >> certainly. if you look at the polls currently, it's essentially a tied race. hillary clinton is leading by a point, two points in the most recent polls and the dumbest and smartest thing that's said in politics is that it's all about turnout. if you unskew those polls and make them slightly more republican performing, donald trump might actually have a slight edge. if you make them slightly more democratic performing, obviously hillary clinton has a slight edge. and it's pretty much a tied race right now in the polls.
but this is florida. it's the kind of place where if you flip a coin, it very often lands on its edge when it comes to the general election. check back in with me in october so we can say, here's how things are really shaping up. but the three previous general elections, that is the two previous governor's races and the presidential race in between, those were all decided by fewer than 1.2 percentage points. we have close elections here. >> mark, the other thing that's going on right now in florida politics, where everybody's looking to see if there's a national implication, is bernie sanders endorsing this challenger to debbie wasserman schultz in her home district, a democratic party challenger. when i look at the numbers in that district, i feel like this is an emotional sort of charge. this is something that is a real shot across the bow and it might have personal implications. i don't imagine looking at the numbers that debbie wasserman schultz is all that vulnerable in that district. is that right? >> it's hard to see right now. she not only -- people have compared her -- some folks have compared her to cantor, eric
cantor, he lost his seat unexpectedly. the difference here is she really takes care of her district. she's frequently been there and known for sending out lots of mail, like in hurricane season, things you need to do to be prepared. she's in contact with her district and also a kind of a politically historic figure in florida politics. she's the first jewish woman elected to congress from florida and it's a heavily jewish district as well and that plays well into debbie wasserman schultz's favor. the thing we've learned, don't call an election before it's over. and florida, sometimes you don't know what the results are over until it's over. >> don't say the election is going to happen in advance, until you actively see it being given birth to at that moment. mark caputo, always great to see you. >> thank you. >> thank you. we learned today there was a new state giving illinois a run for its money when it comes to governors under investigation in serial terms. that story and a lot more ahead
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man 1:man 2: i am. woman: ex-military? man 2: four tours. woman: you worked with computers? man 2: that's classified, ma'am. man 1: but you're job was network security? man 2: that's classified, sir. woman: let's cut to the chase, here... man 1: what's you're assessment of our security? man 2: [ gasps ] porous. woman: porous? man 2: the old solutions aren't working. man 2: the world has changed. man 1: meaning? man 2: it's not just security. it's defense. it's not just security. it's defense. bae systems. so a guy walks out of a courthouse and crowd begins to follow. that crowd had been waiting outside the courthouse on the sidewalk. in that courthouse, a police officer was on trial in the death of freddie gray. freddie gray suffered a fatal spinal injury last year in the back of a police van after he was arrested in baltimore, maryland. six officers have been charged
in connection with his arrest and death. today, the first verdict was handed down. officer edward nero was found not guilty. as the courtroom door opened, protesters and media and security began to follow down the sidewalk and around the corner and ultimately into a parking garage. but it turns out the guy they were following was not who they thought it was. you can see in this ap photo, the younger man in the center here, the focus of the crowd, that is actually the brother of the police officer who was on trial. officer edward nero was acquitted today. his brother, john nero, was first out of the courthouse, though. and because they look alike, because people thought he was his brother, john nero's exit drew that whole scrum of protesters and media and onlookers away from the courthouse doors. they all followed the brother, while officer nero, a few moments later, walked out of in relative peace and rode away. in terms of what happens next,
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and a whole lot more. this morning, here at the office, just in time for our news meeting, we all get together and list out all our possible stories and plan the show. this morning, we got kind of a standard pr blast from the office of the governor of virginia, terry mcauliffe, under the state seal there and everything. governor mcauliffe announcing a new movie to be filmed in virginia, starring adrian grenier from "entourage." it's a movie called "public affairs." it's described as a political thriller about sex and danger and blackmail and politics and thrilling things. and that exciting and scandalous story out of virginia was never going to make the show tonight, until later on today, after the news meeting, we got the very surprising news that governor mcauliffe is the focus of some real-life political drama
himself. nbc news has now confirmed that the fbi is looking into whether terry mcauliffe accepted illegal contributions during his 2013 campaign for governor, specifically the fbi looking for the past several months into whether his gubernatorial campaign accepted contributions that were illegal. the fbi is reportedly particularly interested in contributions from a chinese businessman, who once held political office in china, but who now has permanent resident status in the united states. a lawyer for the mcauliffe campaign tells nbc tonight, quote, neither the governor nor his former campaign has knowledge of this matter. the lawyer continued, quote, the governor will certainly cooperate with the government, if he is contacted about it. if. if! the lawyer implying that the governor himself hasn't even been told about this fbi investigation, yet. but it's in the press, now, thanks to somebody leaking that information.
this new fbi investigation is happening in the same state where terry mcauliffe's predecessor, republican governor bob mcdonnell, is currently appealing a two-year prison sentence for public corruption, public affairs, indeed. when bob mcdonnell got indicted, everybody in virginia professed to be shocked, shocked that this could happen in that genteel state, which prides itself on its good governance. who never thought it even needed ethics laws. bob mcdonnell was the first virginia governor indicted in that state's very, very long history. now his successor is under fbi investigation, as well. we will let you know more when we learn more. but joining us now and matt zoptopski. nice to have you with us tonight. thanks for being here. >> yeah, thank you. are >> so do we know anything more specific about why the fbi started this investigation or what specifically it is that they're looking into with mcauliffe? >> there's a lot we don't know. we know they started this
investigation over a year ago, which is quite a long time. and what they're looking at is a series, not just that one contribution you mentioned, but a series of campaign contributions that governor mcauliffe got. they're also looking at his personal finances. my understanding of the investigation is they're looking to see if there was any kind of public corruption, that there was a quid pro quo, whether he got something, money into a personal account or a campaign contribution and specifically related to that, he did something official for somebody. it's a tough thing to prove, but that's my understanding of what they're looking at. >> and that in virginia screams bob mcdonnell, who is currently appealing his conviction to the supreme court. matt, one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you tonight, in your report on this in "the washington post," you said, there's skepticism among prosecutors among whether this is ultimately going to lead to charges. what can you tell me about that? >> well, look, terry mcauliffe is a wealth guy. he has a lot of financial transactions that have been reported on in the past.
i think there's some skepticism among the people handling this investigation that there could be some type of quid pro quo. you know, if you have a lot of money going into your campaign or into your personal bank accounts from a variety of sources, including foreign sources, i think that raises people's suspicions, particularly when you're in, you know, when you're in public office. but there is some skepticism among the people who are kind of overseeing this investigation, as to whether there will be enough to substantiate criminal wrongdoing. in the mcdonnell case, they said in exchange for all this money, the governor lended a lot of official help. that may be harder to prove with terry mcauliffe. >> one last question for you, matt. in the terms of the way this story got to press today, obviously, it was a number of different news sources have been able to confirm it, including nbc news and "the washington post," is there any story about why this has become public information?
obviously, no charges have been filed. there's been no formal announcement from the fbi. it strikes me as interesting that the governor himself had never been noiied that he was target of an investigation. anything unusual about this coming to light in the way it did today? >> you know, i think a lot of investigations come to light before people in the justice department or the fbi would want them to. and i don't know that there's anything really funny about this coming to light. if anything, it surprises me that they were able to keep things quiet for over a year. >> matt zapotosky, a reporter with "the washington post," thanks for helping us understand this story. a lot going on tonight, including something that is about to happen in washington tomorrow, something that has not been tried in washington in 140 years. that's coming up. fall in love with a new daily fiber.
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it involves, for good reason -- but it involves hiding an intern under a table. we have never done this on tv before. we've done it plenty of times not on tv. but on tv, we have never before stuffed an intern under the table. it's important that it works. i don't think it will work, but we're going to try it next. stick with me.
running your own dangerous, powerful organization, i'm sure, has its perks, but if you run the kind of dangerous organization that is so dangerous and so powerful that it puts you as the leader in the crosshairs, so that you are physically in danger because you're the leader of the organization, sometimes you have to become a leader in hiding. which in this case, is the guy under the table. nobody's allowed to know where he is. he's in hiding. but he's still a leader. and as such, he has messages that he wants to get out there to his followers. he still wants to lead. to stay safe while staying in charge, he has this system. the system is this. the only person who knows where he's hiding, the only person who knows where he is, is his number two guy in the organization. so when he wants to lead, when he wants to get a message out there, he just tells his number two guy what he wants to say to the world. >> he says, you better eat your vegetables, or else! >> and he keeps doing this.
>> he says, no more holidays for anyone! >> for years and years and years, for years and years and y he did this. [ laughter] >> he says don't forget, he's still the leader. >> and one day the number two guy comes over to get his standard message he's going to get from the number one guy and he finds that the number one guy is dead from hepatitis. so, in that circumstance, what's he going to do? is he going to be like the message for today is our leader guy is dead of hepatitis? he could do that. >> keep eating your vegetables and he's definitely, definitely
still alive. >> and for two years the number two guy in the organiation carries on like this as if he's still getting messages from the number one guy under the table. and he's not because the number one guy is dead. and that is what really happened in real life to the taliban. taliban was founded after they kicked the soviet union's army out of afghanistan. and their leader was this mystical, mysterious one-eyed guy who claimed to be the modern incarnation of the prophet muhammad. and they welcomed the al qaeda movement to set up shop and that's a big part of the story of how we got the 9/11 attacks. but it wasn't long before he became a leader in hiding in order to keep himself safe.
the taliban really did set up this very tight security system in which the person who could see him was his number two in the organization. he was the only guy who knew where omar was and he would meet with him, get messages from him and pasthem on to the rest of the taliban and one day he died from hepatitis and the number two guy, the only person allowed to see omar, that guy supposedly passing on his messages from the taliban, he decided when he died that he would keep passing on the messages but at that point they were ones he made up himself. he pretended to be his messenger but really he was running the taliban himself for years. omar had been dead for two years when word finally got out last summer that he was dead. so, last summer the taliban had this brief internal power struggle and ultimately decided that the guy that pretended omar
wasn't dead for the previous two years, the guy supposed to be just the messenger but in fact leading the organization, they decided they'll just make him the head of the taliban. he's been doing it all this time anyway while lying to us. once he became the actual leader of the taliban and not just the fake messenger, he has been having success. they control a 1/3 of afghanistan, which is more than they've held at any point since 2001 when the u.s. invaded afghanistan. the pretended speak in the voice of a dead guy for two years while nobody else knew the dead guy was dead. he's effective as the new leader of the taliban, at least he was until this weekend when a u.s. drone strike appears to have killed him in pakistan on saturday. this was reportedly authorized by president obama himself.
the highest profile killing of a leader since osama bin laden was killed. sunday individual members of the taliban began telling reporters they believed their leader was dead. and they confirmed the drone strike was successful and mansour was dead. it's not exactly clear how they would do that because for the moment, they're leaderless again. the taliban has convened a high level 10 man commission to establish how intelligence found him. although their keeping omar out of view was ridiculous. ultimately, it was hepatitis that got him and not an american drone strike. so, the new guy didn't end up dying of natural causes. their first order of business now is to find out how their leader was found in pakistan and
now picking a new leader which will be a consequential one for the u.s. and the world. among those in contention for the job is the guy that got the new number two job in the organization and one of omar's sons is said to be in contention and a senior leader of the haqqani network, which is best known for holding bogue bergdahl for two years. right now, there are nearly 10,000 u.s. afghanistan with no realistic time line on when they would ever leave. the fear is that the taliban will take over the whole country, basically as soon as the u.s. troops leave. well, now, what now?
they've only had two leaders in the past decade. one died under bazar circumstances, the other died of very unnatural causes this weekend. is the threat to afghanistan, the justification for keeping 10,000 americans in afghanistan indefinitely, is that the same if the taliban has no clear leadership? if they fall apart as an organization and have a big fight about who takes over next, what does that mean for us and america's 10,000 troops in afghanistan in year 15 of this war? watch this space. ♪ [female narrator] you listen when your body says: "i'm tired." or, "i'm hungry." what if your body said something else might be wrong? gynecologic cancers - cervical, ovarian and uterine cancers - have symptoms. so pay attention. if your body says something may be wrong....
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of anybody but a president -- well, let's see. it was secretary of war william bellmap, 140 years ago in 1876. there hasn't been an impeachment of anybody below the cabinet ever. but they're going to try it on the commissioner of the irs. they will not proceed. but they're going to try. that will do it for us tonight. good evening, lawrence. hillary clinton's two front