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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  January 27, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm PST

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trump said is true or not. if just a third of the people, his base, say he's right, that's fine with trump. it sure beats losing the battle of objective truth by a shutout. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. fall this with chris hayes start right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> what's crucial for me is for the public to understand that obamacare is a disaster, okay? >> president trump takes action to undercut health care enrollment. >> i do believe we'll have a much better plan. >> but a new leaked audio, republicans wonder if their repeal will pull the rug out from under people. then -- >> that goes to the promise of extreme vetting. >> totally extreme. >> the president's totally extreme moves to restrict immigration and refugees. plus, masha gessen on the reality of living among alternative facts. >> what you have presented so far has been debunked. >> no, it hasn't. >> what van halen has to do with the british prime minister's
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visit. and the vice president attends a d.c. demonstration. >> president trump actually asked me to be here with you today. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. there's a lot going on tonight. just over a year and a month since candidate trump called for a complete and total shutdown of muslims entering the united states, president trump signed an executive order aimed at fulfilling at least part of that goal. hewing closely to the rhetoric of banning entry to the united states based on country of origin and possibly even religion, here is the president today. >> i'm establishing new vetting measures to keep radical islamic terrorists out of the united states of america. we don't want them here. we want to ensure that we are not admitting into our country the very threats our soldiers are fighting overseas. and this is the protection of
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the nation from foreign terrorist entities into the united states. we all know what that means. protection of the nation from foreign terrorist's entry into the united states. that's big stuff. >> the administration did not release the lengthy, complicated executive order until hours after the signing but it suspends the issuance of visas to people from "countries of particular concern." countries designated in a prior law by congress as iraq, iran, libya, somalia, sudan, syria and yemen. the executive order also stops the refugee program all together for all refugees from anywhere for four months pending review and installs an indefinite ban on syrian refugees. but, it makes special allowances for victims of persecution who are part of a minority religion in that country, a carveout that would apply to, for instance, christian refugs in
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muslim-majority countries. the state department in a statement sa it is working with the departments of homeland security and health and human services to put the executive order into effect. reaction from lawmakers has already been harsh. senate minority leader chuck schumer tweeting "there are tietier tears running down the cheeks of the statue of liberty." congressman seth moulton says "president trump is leading our country out of fear instead of facts. his executive orders banning refugees and immigrants from some muslim majority countries in the united states playwright into the hands of our enemies." amnesty international and the international rescue committee expressed grave concern. amnesty international saying "this puts anti-muslim bigotry into policy and is reminiscent of the kinds of religious discrimination we've documented in countries like iran and china. the can executive order president trump issued today is cruel, inhumane and violates law." joining me now, ari melber. all of us have been attempting to work our way through what is
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very complicated -- let me say immigration law is the craziest, most complicated area of law. >> swiss cheese. >> there's one component which is visas. what's going on in the visa front? >> this is suspending visas in the way people would be cleared to come in based on a host of considerations. so the main thing here, the biggest power hooer is that it's completely temporarily suspending immigration from the list of countries you mentioned. >> that means grad students, med students, doctors, engineers in an oil field in houston who's coming over from, say, iraq. all of it. >> so as a first step it's not vetting of any kind extreme or lax. it's shutting the door to those countries. this has been pointed out by others and i'll stress it here, the opening provisions, the starting language of this thing says we have to worry about immigration given 9/11. and this doesn't do anything with regard to the home countries of the attackers on 9/11 of saudi arabia, uae or
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egypt. doesn't touch those countries in any way. what it does go on to do is, as you mentioned, take down those seven countries. what is a clever legal strategy here that might actually really matter is those countries are based on a law that cited them in a different context but cited them as dangerous. it's a law congress passed and president obama signed. it was a law that basically said you could have a waiver of the normal visa requirements if you were from a favored country like, say, england, but if you stopped in a dangerous place like syria or iraq you don't get your waiver anymore. >> i see. >> they've take than danger list and now they're saying, hey, if you come from that country, you don't get in at all. >> so i want to be, like, really clear here, right? because this is not -- you know, what the president when he was running, called for, is a temporary ban on all muslims coming into the country. this is not that. >> no. >> and almost certainly would not have been held up in court, i think. there's a general feeling. >> we heard from many constitutional experts who said
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it probably would not but that's unknown and there have been times if you go back far enough, not precedents that are popular, there were restrictions on catholics and jews if you go back far enough. >> finally here, refugees. indefinite ban on all syrian refugees which is the place producing the most refugees in the world right now. it's a maelstrom of unceasing horror and a ban -- a ban on all refugees everywhere. >> correct. this is a suspension of the entire refugee program. it's saying even people facing discrimination, the type of people the united states prioritize to some degree because of what they were up against nothing for a while while they put this review on and nothing from syria as all. that is -- again, that's a slam door. so what you see in this as well is opening the door to further bans because it says in this new order that the dhs and the secretary of state can then propose new countries. donald trump, if you're watching, because i know sometimes you watch, what he may decide is oh, wait, i can add to that this helps me so if i
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heard, oh, maybe i should ban saudi arabia, well, the d can do that. i'm not suggesting that, i not making a policy recommendation one way or the other to the president. but this is an order that basically gives a lot of power in the executive to do this. the reason why it's not a religious ban which is important is as i mentioned it uses other criteria. it does mention things like honor killings in its preamble. but we have to be fair, this is not a religious test as written. >> all right, ari melber, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> joining me now, senator jeff merkley of oregon. senator, the argument made by proponents of the president's policy is that basically better safe than sorry. we care about america and american lives and you don't know. you have to be careful with these folks. what do you say to that? >> chris, lady liberty is crying tonight. she didn't say give me your poor and your tired and your huddled masses yearning to be free only if they are this religion or that religion or this ethnicity
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or that ethnicity and we really know that the most vetted group coming to the united states are our refugees. they go through a two year process and blocking out women and children and interpreters who have enhanced our national security abroad is a mistaken direction to go. it will throw into chaos the visa waiver program with europe. all these european nations. all by five of the european union come here under the visa waiver. they only can come under that program with the highest passport requirements including a bio metric information and coded into a chip in the visa or in the passport. so it's allowed the flow of individuals from europe to the united states. that's before we get to basically this assault on muslims. >> what do you say to those, ari melber, who said this is very carefully crafted to not specify
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a religion. in fact, there's two things going on. one is that it's a set of countries, all the countries are muslim majority. another portion of the executive order says there will be reference give on the religious people -- victims of religious persecution if those people are minorities -- religious minorities in a country that's a majority other religion. you can imagine, say, coptic christians or syrian christians. what do you say to those who say this was crafted so it doesn't use islam or religion as a test? >> clearly those who are lawyers have gone through to find a foundation on which they can pass a constitutional test but understand this. this ban on folks coming from seven islamic countries, primarily islamic countries is going to be perceived much as the program was previously, as the previous program that didn't result in a single prosecution. it was terribly ineffective in terms of detecting anyone who
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wanted to do our country harm but what it did was offend the entire islamic world and feed it into the isis rhetoric in which they are saying the united states wants to conduct a war on islam so we'll conduct a war on them. so this really feeds those fires and endangers national security. >> there is a bunch of people noting today that today is holocaust memorial day. i saw the czech ambassador andy shapiroweeting his ielie mother's visa into this country that saved her from mass murder in germany when she was a jew do you think you have the better side of the political argument when you are making a moral case for why america has some moral responsibility to take in people fleeing the ravages of war? >> it's been so fundamental. we are immigrants. unless you're 100% native
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american, we all came through the process of immigration, our parents, grandparents, etc. it's been that mixture that has been a tremendous strength of america and so for us to now say we're not going to look at the problems of the world and admit those who are troubled, virtually none of us would be here if that were the case when our ancestors arrived so i feel it really great grates on the religious -- freedom of religion of the united states and it also goes against the grain of what has made america very strong and so all of that and then you throw in the fact that this strategy is going to be a major source of recruitment for terrorists around the world so you asked me about the politics. i don't know. but it goes against our fundamental principles and makes us in a more dangerous place.
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>> senatoreff mercury, thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> joining me now state representative omar. representative, first i want to ground this in your story. you're a refugee. can you explain the circumstances under which you came to this country. >> hi, chris. yes i am a refugee. my family arrived here from somalia via kenya in 1995. after spending four years in the refugee camp. and going through an extensive vetting process to come here. >> what -- i guess the context i wonder if you could illuminate is what would push a family to leave the place they live in and love and go into, say, a camp and try to come to this country? >> i mean the circumstance with
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my family leaving their home country is because there was a civil war and it was no longer safe for us to be in that country and so we fled and seek refuge in kenya and entered a refugee camp in mombasa and after a long time in the refugee camp we were fortunate enough to get the opportunity to resettle here in the united states through the refugee resettlement program a that the lutheran services provided. >> all refugees if i'm reading this order correctly has been suspended for four months. all syrian refugees from the worst civil war in the world happening right now has been suspended indefinitely. what's your response to those actions? >> it's sad and disappointing
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and it's -- you know, it goes against the fundamentals of, i think, what our nation stands f for, for us to create a muslim ban, essentially, for refugees coming from muslim-dominated countries i think would go against what we believe to be our foundations of being a welcoming country where we allow strangers to come seek new opportunities and to see themselves as part of the american foundation and to seek their american dream. it's also important for us to note that many of the people that this particular executive order bans are coming from countries that the united states
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foreign policy has contributed in destabilizing their countries and they're living under a civil war that we've aided in in helping them seek a democratic nation. and for us to turn their back on them right now i think it's sad, disappointing and every american who believes that furthering democracy in the world is a value we all believe in should stand up and voice their opposition and concern to this executive order. it is really important for us to recognize that extremism does not have a religion. it doesn't have a nation, it doesn't live in one continent. here in the united states we face extremism every single day
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and we are facing more of threat from a lone gunman that goes into a school and shoots up young children. we face more of a threat from a lone gunman who goes into a movie theater and shoots up people enjoying an evening watching movies and so we have to realize that what this executive ban does is to create a divide, exploit the fear that we have and the ignorance that we have of people of a different faith, of different nationality and that is un-american to me. i came here because my dad and grandfather believed in the american exceptionalism of coming to a country that was very welcoming and that's a country of immigrants unless you
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are a native american. we all have a history of being immigrants to this country and this is sort of the founding principles. there's a saying that america is a place that is supposed to welcome everyone. >> representative omar, appreciate your time tonight, thank you very much. >> thank you so much. up next from behind closed doors, republicans worry, even freak out a little bit, about their promise of repealing and replacing obamacare. leaked audio gives a fascinating look to how the right is trying to grabble with their next steps. that story after this two-minute break. suck on and point decisively with the arm of your glasses. it is no longer eyewear, it is your wand of business wizardry. abracadabra. you've just gone from invisible to invincible. step two: before your meeting, choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points
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tonight, two major setbacks for republican efforts to repeal and replace the affordable care act, a key priority of the new administration. certainly the new congress. first, the trump administration planned to pull the plug on all obamacare outreach and advertising in the crucial final days of the 2017 enrollment
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season. sources at hhs and on the hill told political even if ads had already been paid for. but after outcry from supporters of obamacare, patient advocates and insurers, they're reversing course, deciding to continue public outreach for the last few days of open enrollment. we should note this is the first big win, really, for obamacare supporters in the early days of the new administration. this comes after the "washington post" obtained an audio recording of a closed-door planning session at the gop's retreat, revealing a party in chaos plagued by doubts about the way forward. "we better be sure we're prepared to live with the market we've created." said congressman tom mcclintock. "that's going to be called trump care, republicans will own that lock, stock and barrel and will be judged in the election two years away." another congressman used concerns about defunding planned parenthood. "we are walking into a giant political trap if we go down this path of sticking planned parenthood in the health insurance bill" said john faso, a congressman from new york.
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"if you want to do it somewhere else i have no problem but i think we are creating a political minefield for ourselves, house and senate." republicans in congress are learning the same lessons their democratic counterparts learned eight years ago -- governing is hard, especially when it comes to health policy. though donald trump has managed to rewrite many rules previously governing the political universe, at least on this subject, gravity still exists. joining me sara cliff, senior policy correspondent at vox, juniper rubin who rigwrites the right turn blog. this is a great get by the "washington post." it sounds like the proverbial dog that caught the car, right? what do we do now? it has been seven years to work on a replacement plan and waking up to the thicket of the politics, it's sort of astonishing. >> i have been one of the lone voices that said republicans were digging themselves a big hole. first of all, they have overpromised to the moon. they were going to make it cheaper and better and more
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choices. this is not dish soap, this is health care and there's only so many things you can do. then donald trump doubled down and said he was going to give health care coverage to everyone. that sounds like universal coverage, not just access so they said the bar high and they have not thought this through. they never thought they were going to win the presidency. they were that the for seven years. they don't have a plan. i was reassured hearing them behind closed doors because they're saner in private than in public. and paul ryan has essentially been lying to the american people and lying to his members saying oh, we're all on the same page, we're on the same page with trump. trump doesn't have a page, he doesn't have a book, he doesn't have a library. poor paul ryan he has to fake it and this blows the cover on the fact that these people are all over the map. of course they are, there is no perfect solution and at the end of the day they'll have to get eight democratic senators? they can't even get themselves on the same page. >> that's a great point about the filibuster.
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there are certain things they can do in reconciliation but they can't create a new health care system through reconciliation. sara, there's the politics of this also. is there any policy consensus? you got rand paul says look, we have to come out with something, he comes out with his own bill. it's what you would expect from a let the market decide republican. it's bare bones, peel would probably lose their health insurance. but it's honest. it probably wouldn't be a political winner. >> it probably wouldn't. it would be one of those bills if you're bad if someone who is six, someone who has low income, if you're using obamacare right now, the paul plan doesn't offer you a lot. to your question, chris, there isn't consensus right now. you're seeing republican plans get introduced, there's another plan that came out this week from two more -- a more centrist plan from two republican senators, the cassidy/collins plans that let some states keep obamacare if they like it and lets other states move to a different program if they don't. you have the paul plan different
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from the cassidy/collins plan, enough disarray behind closed doors. so i have a bit of deja vu to covering the 2009/2010 obamacare effort. the difference here is democrats had a clear goal in mind. they wanted to cover more people health surance. it not clear what republicans are groping towards aside from getting rid of the affordable care act. >> that is the great point. what is the plan? jennifer's point about promising the moon. sean spicer said we have a mandate to provide care to more people at lower deductibles. i thought if that's the mandate, that's a tough mandate to live up to. then you have sara to the point about deja vu, status quo bias is intense in health care. change is scary. which ever direction. this is tom macarthur in that audio, jennifer, saying "we're telling those people we're not going to pull the rug out from under them and if we do this too fast we are in fact going to
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pull the rug out from under them." >> i think their honest the i is at least refreshing and you make another good point, chris, which is one of the complaints about obamacare and the complaint donald trump out theed was that the deductibles and co-pays were too high. what are they suggesting? they're suggesting a tax credit that will buy you -- get this -- a bare bones catastrophic plan. that's exactly what people have said they don't want so i don't know what problem they are trying to solve. listen, there are problems with obamacare and they could be addressing them. there's a lot of problems and questions as to whether these high-risk pool which is they keep venerating and have never worked are the way to go. so there are real problems. they probably could sit down with democrats and fix some of these but politically for them they have painted themselves into such a tight corner they can't do anything rational so they'll be irrational and they'll flounder around for the better part of a year and it may never come to anything.
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>> matt lewis from the daily caller said "i looked into this, you should punt." but go back to 2009. that effort was pronounced dead more times than i can count. people should be clear. sara, what is your sense of how much will there is to navigate what will be very difficult. >> so i think there is a lot of will, as jennifer was sa, republicans are put themselves in a corner here. they've spent seven years promising to repeal and replace obamacare. so this punt option is quite difficult the pull off after you spent so much time talking about it. that being said, i think this incident with the obamacare ads was instructive to me that this is a relatively small thing. it was small, political but there was such a backlash to taking away ads, imagine the backlash to taking away health insurance for millions of people. you were saying it's so hard to rip anything out by the roots and we're just talking about tiszmentes, not people's health coverage. >> i remember when i covered the aca fight when i was in d.c. it was amazing how powerful that
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was. change is terrifying when you're talking about people's doctors and care and grandparents and things like that and that's true for anyone who has the greatest flan the world. sarah kliff and jennifer rubin, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, president trump making claims that are factually inaccurate in order to support his own narrative. a prime example of that right after the break. sure! it's free for everyone. oh! well that's nice! and checking your score won't hurt your credit. oh! i'm so proud of you. well thank you. free at at, even if you're not a customer.
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>> right now, too many families don't feel secure. just look at the 30 largest cities. in the last year alone, the murder rate has increased by 14%.
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here in philadelphia, the murder rate has been steady -- i mean, just terribly increasing. >> over the past 24 hours, the president has gotten a lot of flak from the city of philadelphia for that statement because it's not true. the murder rate in the city of brotherly love has not been "terribly increasing." in fact, about four years ago philly's murder rate fell to its lowest level in 30 years, steady ever since then. if you listen closely, it really almost sounds like trump's teleprompter wanted him to say the truth, that the murder rate had been steady before he decided to take creative license. >> here in philadelphia the murder race has been steady -- i mean just terribly increasing. >> by now we've all become accustomed to assuming that any statement by the president -- to not assuming any statement by e president is factual but his view of life in american cities fits a troubling pattern. consider his tweets about john lewis's district in atlanta saying it was "in horrible
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shape" and not to mention crime infested. georgia's fifth district is not crime infested a fact that the "atlanta journal-constitution" captured with this page. or how about on day one of his web site trump's team wrote "in our nation's capital, killings have risen by 50%." that was not true. the homicide rate in d.c. rose 50% two years ago but fell last year by about 17%. the language has since been changed. perhaps the latest example of oversimplifications and exaggerations is the city of chicago. >> it's horrible carnage. this is afghanistan is not like what's happening in chicago. people are being shot left and right. thousands of people over a short period of time. >> chicago's become a kind of short hand. both for the president and many people who share his world view for a kind of urban war zone. the reality of that is much, much more complicated so we're headed there next week to hear
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from the people of chicago in a special town hall event. that's next wednesday. cond. i want my tax software too charge me at the last second. i'm totally fine paying extra for something i could get for free. there is nothing i can do with an extra $50. said no one ever. file your taxes for free with credit karma tax.
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and they're absolutely right. they say that it's hot... when really, it's scorching. and while some may say the desert is desolate... we prefer secluded. what is the desert? it's absolutely what you need right now. absolutely scottsdale. what you have presented so far has been debunked. it's been called false. >> no it hasn't. take a look at the pew reports. >> i called the author of the pew report last night and he told me they found no evidence of voter fraud. >> really? then why did he write the report. >> he said no evidence of voter fraud. >> so then why did he write the report? then he's graveling again. i always talk about the reporters that grovel when they
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want to write something that you want to hear. >> the country is slowly adjusting to the reality that the new president often says things that are not true. when he's corrected he continues to say things that are not true. when he's corrected again he cites sources that are widely debunked or miscorrected. from things like what the weather was like on inauguration day or whether or not there was a massive voter conspiracy to keep him from being elected. it's uncharted kerrtoterritory american democracy. other countries have been dealing with it for years. it just so happens that one is none other than vladimir putin's russia. someone who's seen that tactic firsthand is masha gessen, author of "the man without a face, the unlikely rise of vladimir putin." what do you make of this first week? this is something he did do as a candidate but i think there's something different when it's, like, the authority of the state behind it at some level. >> well, what i make of this,
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first, if i can just mention that the biggest thing to me is that i came to this country on a refugee visa 35 years ago and i feel sick. >> you came here as a refugee? >> i came here as a refugee from the soviet union 35 years ago. you know, i wouldn't have happened if i hadn't been give an visa. >> some of the most incredible people i know came as refugees. >> getting to your question, it's -- yeah, it's familiar. it's disorienting. what he's doing, first of all, he's using language to assert power. he's basically saying "i'm going to say whatever i want to say and it's going to be what i want it to be whether you like it or not." and we're not equipped for dealing with that because what do you say to a person who will insist on saying that blue is red? after you have demonstrated it
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is still blue. but he's also stripping words of their meaning. it's like nothing is anymore and we're living in it. >> how do you deal with it? i think there's -- people -- there's the fact check thing. we just did it. this is a small thing. the white house got the statistics on washington, d.c. wronon the first day. it was pointed out. they did change it to make it a plausibly fact checkable claim and there's some small part of me that thinks okay, good, that's how it should go. >> it's a small part of how it should go. fact checking doesn't go far enough. we have to learn to tell this story of what this man is and what he's doing. just fact checking doesn't go far enough. we have to understand the power play. we have to understand the aesthetics of using language so it turns into mush. we have to keep writing in the bigger story and keep trying to
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understand the truth. >> you're a phenomenal writer for anyone who has not red masha's work. you're an exceptional writer. is there any chance you're overreading the putin analogy. it's very intense and profound and distinct and there's so many analogies you're importing in the places where it doesn't work. >> maybe i should write another story about all the differences between them. the differences between them are huge. they're not men who are alike. one is hugely emotional, raw forceful, the other one prides himself on never expressing emotion. >> one of them is a hard man who has probably killed people, many people. the other is a soft man who has almost certainly not. >> well, that's probably about to change with the refugee ban he's put in place. >> fair point. their legacy is completely different so i don't mean to say they are alike.
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what i mean to say is they're kin drid spirits and there's some ways some things he's doing many autocrats have done all over the world. i happen to know this one very well. >> but it's a broader tool of using power as the means to create the terms of reality. >> right, it's gaslighting is probably o of the best terms for it. and you no lonr feel like you're on solid ground. another thing, and this is something we need to start sort of waking up to. it creates this state that i think we've all been living in for the last week, the state of constant low-level dread and you can't function in that state. you can just barely manage to go to work and pick up your children from day care but you can't plan for the future. >> i'm laughing because it's such an accurate characterization. >> and this is something that places ranging from interment
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camps to totalitarian countries to people traffickers have done all over the world for years. we know how this stuff works. we've never seen somebody become the american president and use. >> it masha shah guegessen, che her work. thank you. >> thank you. >> still ahead, the march for life draws its highest ranking official in its history. but first, british prime minister theresa may and van halen. that's tonight's thing 1 thing 2 starting right after this break.
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introducing the new turbocharged volkswagen alltrack with 4motion all-wheel drive. soon to be... everywhere. the lesson from van halen's infamous brown m&m's contract ryder. as you know, big time acts are notorious for making ridiculous requests in convert venue. in the case of van hialen's 198 tour, they were running with the devil in the details.
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this is page 40 of van halen's ryder. in the food requirement section, there's an area titled money chis. the ban asked for m&ms but includes in all caps "absolutely no brown ones." the story is a legendary tale of spoiled rock star prima donnas at their worst. no brown m&ms. but there's more to it than that lead singer david lee roth explains later. >> i had them place a clause that just out of the middle of nowhere it would say, for example, there will be 12 afternoamper high voltage sockets placed at 15 foot intervals not to exceed the load bearing et cetera et cetera and then out of the middle i said there will be no brown m&ms in the backstage area or the promoter will forfeit the show at full price. what was the point? if i came backstage having been one of the architects of this lighting and staging design and i saw brown m&ms on the catering
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table then guaranteed the promoter had not read the contract ryder and we had to do a serious line check because frequently we had danger issues or accidental issues. >> brown m&ms were a ruse to make sure promoters were paying careful attention because if they don't pay attention to the small stuff you better expect they'll screw up the big stuff. so what does all this have to do with the prime minister's visit to the white house? that's thing 2 in 60 seconds. isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treatplaque psoriasis differentl some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4onths. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts,
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official schedule ahead of her arrival. there was one small problem with the document. prime minister may's first name was spelled wrong, leaving out the "h." no big deal except that teresa may without the "h" is famous in the uk. she's a former adult film star and model who was certainly/probably not visiting donald trump at the white house this wyche. and this is theresa may with an h, president of the united kingdom. it's just a typo, i've made them myself. but like the brown m&ms it's also a signal. somebody isn't paying enough attention and the white house is dealing with issues much much more important than the lighting at a rock concert.
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it's absolutely what you need right now. absolutely scottsdale. could you hear the voices from the women's march here in washington? we know there were more than a million people who turned out and you are their president now, too. >> it's true. >> could you hear them from the white house? >> no, i couldn't hear them but the crowds were large but you're going to have a large crowd on friday, too, which is mostly
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pro-life people. >> when asked about last week's women's march on washington president trump was quick to point out that "a lot of people" would be attending today's annual march for life which is widely considered the biggest anti-abortion event of the year. and while tens of thousands of people showed up to march, there was one attendee who made history, becoming the highest-ranking official to ever address a rally in person in its 44-year history. we'll tell you who that is next. ♪ if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's, and your symptoms have left you with the same view,
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history of martial life, a sitting vice president spoke to a crowd. while the majority in the crowd agree with his position, the majority in the country appear not to. nearly 60% say abortion should be legal in all or both cases. 70% of americans polled support roe v. wade the law today's marchers were protesting. now the sitting vice president is an ardent abortion foe, a man who when he was in congress began the push to defund planned parenthood and when he was governor of indianapolis he signed every abortion bill that crossed his deck. the man today promised they will appoint an anti-abortion supreme court justice. a march that has been largely symbolic may be on the prepreci its victory. joining me now, charlie sykes editor of right wisconsin, jess mcintosh. charlie, i'll start with you.
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i don't think anybody believes donald trump thinks roe v. wade should be overturned or opposes abortion. do you? >> no and i was skeptical of his position. i have to lay it out here that i'm a pro-life catholic so i'm pleasantly surprised by some of this however i did not think during the campaign that he was going to take this aggressive pro-life position but he certainly has. having said that, this is going to be a very problematic alliance for pro-life movement. i'm not sure that they really expect or ought to expect roe v. wade is going to be overturned any time soon. so they'll have to take their victories but i don't think that's within reach. >> that's an interesting question because i think jess probably disagrees with that. >> well, their agenda has been to overturn roe v. wade and ban abortion for as long as they have been -- for the last 40 years. >> since roe v. wade. >> since 1973. so now they find themselves in control with with the ability to do that, a president who -- i mean, he's been on the wrong side of both -- he's been on
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both wrong sides of this issue for the republican base. he went too far saying women ought to beunisheif they were going to have abortions and, of course, he said he was pro choice long ago. >> can i play that for a second so that people can ground in the the fact that -- it's remarkable. it's is up an important issue. so fought over for deeply passionate reasons and the president of the united states, this is him in 1999. >> would president trump ban partial-birth abortion? >> well, look, i'm very pro-choice. i hate the concept of abortion. i hate it. i hate everything it stands for. i cringe when i listen to people debating the subject. but you still -- i just believe in choice. and, again, it may be a little bit of a new york background because there is some different attitude in different parts of the country and i was raised in new york and grew up and work and everything else in new york city. but i am strongly for choice and yet i hate the concept of abortion. >> he's going to appoint a supreme court justice who almost certainly will be opposed to roe
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v. wade. >> the man made very few concrete promises during his campaign. that was one of them. i expect -- i think we ought to be taking him at his word wherever he says a thing. this is going to be interesting because the republican party has been using this issue to rile its base up without worrying about what it does to moderates and to non-republicans, non-base voters. seven in 10 americans do not want roe v. wade overturned. they believe that abortion should be legal and up to a woman and her doctor. when they take that away those numbers are going to mean something. >> i had a -- charlie, i had a prominent -- when i was recording in d.c. i had a republican strategist say if you got karl rove in a room and gave him truth serum and said do you want a republican president to appoint a justice who overturns roe v. wade he would tell you no, i do not want that because of precisely jess's point about what the political ramifications could be. >> absolutely. i completely agree with that which is why i think there are a lot of people in the pro-life
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movement who understand that the future ought to be changing people's hearts and minds. let's -- let us not take away people's rights because that, of course, would be about the most divisive thing you can possibly do. by the way, i would also hope you realize a lot of these people who are out there might be campaigning for the right to life but they're not necessarily going to be all in on this trump agenda. they're going to be a lot of contradictions and i think it is worth focusing on the full continuum of life. how many of the people there who are campaigning for the right to life are going to be all in, for example, on the ban of refugees or on various things that might make health care less pro parent pro family? those are contradictions that are worth talking about and dealing with. >> i should note this. the march for life, my grandparents would go every year. you would not think of them as protesters in any way. they would go, their church group would go, it's a ritual
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and tradition for a lot of catholic churches that have views that don't support dplump a lot of areas but to me it's also a question of there's also, jess, a suspicion on the part of republicans that they will be screwed when it comes to supreme court justices. and because donald trump doesn't have trust to bank on, it makes me think he needs to choose someone whose bona fides are totally unquestionable that will be the most obvious anti-roe vote imaginable. >> i think he will go too far. he doesn't understand the anti-choice movement. he doesn't have those principles. so he gets it wrong. a lot of the women marching at the march for life, like charlie was saying, i agree completely believe in life across the board. they are pro-immigrant. they are not going to like the fact that if we have a global gag rule women who have been raped as a tool of war will die because they are going to self-induce an abortion. that's not what the anti-choice
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movement in america is about. they are going to view that with a lot more sympathy than i think donald trump would assume that they would or than sody that he would put on the supreme court because he tnk they want. >> thursday is going to be the day it's announced and i'm predicting the fear, charlie, the fear of being soudered again, that it's going to be rock solid. that's "all in" for this evening. good evening, rachel. >> my girlfriend susan has had a long long crush on david souder so the verb to be soudered in our house has a totally different idea. >> i was like where is this sentence going to be going? i thought it was going to chris hayes and i thought i can hardly blame her. you went with david souder. >> when we've known each other a long time, when we've known each other a really long time, to be hayesed will have a different meeting. thank you, chris. there's a lot going on.


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