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tv   Lockup Raw  MSNBC  January 28, 2017 6:00pm-7:01pm PST

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it's been blocked. someone who just came out of courtroom. no one is leaving the country. the case has been briefed. everything is frozen at the moment. in material of those folks at the airport, it is unclear whether they get released or have to stay there. i am not an immigration lawyer. [ inaudible ] there's a real ecstatic air here at the courthouse in brooklyn. in what is the first legal defeat for the new trump administration which has come in like a whirl wind in his first week and he is meeting his first legal defeat in the first eastern district in brooklyn at the courthouse. >> msnbc's chris hayes there. as you can imagine, his location that indication, his connection has been coming and going. and again, he has been speaking with those a are either inside the federal courthouse there in
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brooklyn, also, witnessing for us those who have come out. those claiming that they have victory. that indeed, a stay has been granted for this very policy. this executive order that was signed on friday by president trump. we are unable at this moment to independently confirm this report as of yet. but as you see here, some video from social media of those that are there at the courthouse. chris hayes, who is still with us, of course, they're describing some of the fists in the air as well as some of the energy. many of those who came from this location, jfk airport. if indeed, this is confirmed that the stay has been granted in this case, that would involve the executive order signed on friday which denied based on the language in that executive order all at the moment refugees
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coming to this country. there are about 80,000 each and every year that come from all places around the world hoping for, as the name would say, refuge, to the united states of america as the country has done for so long. seven countries were involved in the executive order. seven countries where immigrants would not be allowed into the united states. libya, syria, iraq, iran, sudan, yemen and somalia. if the stay has been granted, it would be as chris hayes has described to us reporting right on scene there at the courthouse in brooklyn. this would be the first defeat after a whirl wind coming from the white house, from the pen of the united states president, president trump. and he had three today.
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one of the last executive orders that he signed on friday was that related to what he has described as protecting the united states from what might be bad actors, and the way he would do that was to employ measures, employ executive orders, and hopefully in his words, to have laws passed relate to extreme vetting. again, that is what we're hearing on the ground. unable at the moment to independently confirm that is indeed what has happen. the aclu, the way this all started today. the aclu as well as other groups came together, filed a lawsuit against president trump, and this was related to two individuals. two iraqis who were refugees with legal papers to come to the united states. then after that executive order was signed, they were caught, if you will, in the gray. they arrived to the united states at that airport there.
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jfk airport. one of the busiest in the nation. terminal four. one was releasedful one was not. and then the lawyers moved to the brooklyn courthouse later. starting at 7:30 p.m. eastern time. what we're hearing is that they had still ahead burden of proof and stay may have been, according to what we're hearing from chris hayes, those on the ground, that they believe they have had success. that brings us to 9:04 eastern time. 8:03 eastern time in dallas, texas, where our station there, kxas, chris jose has also been on the ground. and chris, we don't have confirmation independently yet. you may have heard it. either through your news organization there on the ground
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or from folks around the place there. it sounds like from what i can hear, there is some bit of elation here. what are you hearing there on the ground in terms of this potential stay which would mean all those affected by this executive order will now be, if you will, released. what are you hearing? >> reporter: unone firmed right now. we are hearing the same report from immigration attorneys at dfw international airport. a group of these attorneys, they were right in the middle of the international arrivals gate. you can see here this large crowd. a lot of these folks are advocates and supporters who are starting to show up here. they started showing up all afternoon and evening because of the call through social media. it is really hard to tell which folks here family and who are supporters and advocates. they just made an announcement a
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short time ago urging the families in a certain section here. that way they can sort all this out. as far as we know, there are still six people detained inside the international area. three people came out a few hours ago. we've been on the ground here speaking to immigration attorneys. we have jennifer rodriguez with us now. and what are you hearing? what are your folks telling you? >> right now we have a bit of good news letting us know the stay has been granted in new york. so we have a team of lawyers all over the country working together to try to get some legal documentation, some temporary restraining orders ready to be able to proceed. we're going to stay as long as we can and we have immigration lawyers and the aclu working nationwide to figure out what's going on and how to best help all the people who are here. >> as far as we know, there are
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still six people detained inside customs. had you spoken to some of these families? >> we have spoken to family members that are out here, that have spoken on very brief conversations with family members inside, that are being detained. >> what are they telling you? >> right now, they're in a state of confusion not really knowing what's going on. they're being asked to sign expedited removals. they understand they may be going back tomorrow. we're doing everything we can to communicate with them and just let them know that there are people out here working for them. >> a lot of people out here at dfw airport tonight. what happens next? what do you know? >> the next step for us really is to get into a board room and let somebody take look at this. we want to make sure that everybody who comes to this country has a right to have their case adjudicated and the right to come in.
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this is unprecedented. we've never seen anything like this. the lawyers are all, also working very hard to figure out what our best strategy is to make sure that everyone come mize with the law. >> you're working close when i the aclu. >> correct. >> are you confident that some of these families here at dfw international airport, if indeed the stay was granted, do you feel like they'll be able to come to this side of the terminal sometime this evening? >> we hope. we've been trying to community with dhs. we haven't been able to community with anyone. >> some of the families we've spoken to this evening, two individuals were released. but then there are some other families here. they really don't know what will happen next. they feel like they're already planning ahead and booking
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flights back for the family members who are currently being detained right now. >> we're just trying on provide encouraging words for them and letting them know, there are people fighting for them all over the country. and they came to dallas but this is just the hub and they were going to other parts of the family. there may be family members in other parts of the country that don't know why their relative didn't arrive yet. >> the immigration attorney will be here through the evening. >> keep her there. stand by one second. we may have some news for you. i want to go to our own chris hayes who is there at that federal courthouse in brooklyn with more breaking news for us. chris? >> reporter: we can confirm the stay has been granted. the two lawyers from the aclu came out. they announced to the crowd, the stay has been granted. the executive order has been frozen. it cannot be executed until it looks like february.
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there is a real question here. what the judge said, no one who is currently being held can be sent back to their country. but whether or not they are released from detention is as of yet unclear. the attorneys also said the judge ordered the federal government to provide the attorneys a list of all names of anyone who is currently in detention so they have a comprehensive list of who has been caught in the system. they sounded slightly skeptical that would be forthcoming is that they asked the crowd to send out the message. if you know of anyone anywhere, please contact us so we know. to reiterate, the federal judge has granted a stay. it is a stunning legal defeat for the trump administration in its first week. the most controversial executive order signed. it has now been blocked by a federal judge pending briefing of the case which will happen in february. no one is allowed to be sent back out of the country, per the federal judge's order. we have that now confirm from the eastern district courthouse in brooklyn. >> this is historic here, chris.
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you were there at brooklyn. we have seen the reaction across the airports, across the country again. confirming for us, chris hayes, the stay has been granted. this affects all across the country, the airports that we've been reporting on. those who have been detained at these locations. >> that's correct. every single person who is covered by the executive order. and there's some ambiguity about even that. everyone who is currently being held at any airport in this country, cannot, cannot that you are soonlt to an order of the federal judge, be sent out of the country. they must remain here. there is a question about whether they can be released or kept in detention which is a whole other set of questions. the attorneys for the aclu seem unclear of that. they said the federal government, the judge issued to provide a comprehensive list so we know who and where across this nation of ours, is sitting in an airport with the possible
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threat of deportation, that has temporarily been removed from by a stunning order from the federal judge in brooklyn. >> what was the sense of these lawyers, of how fast they were able to get this done? their hopefulness going forward? >> there was an absolute paneled moan-up. and sort of air. we sat outside the courtroom. you can see people filtering down the stairs and some of the spectators who are clearly immigration advocates, their fists pumping up in the air. the crowd going wild. and then one by one, coming out in cheers. and then finally, the two attorneys who argued the case, coming out. they stopped and gave an address to the crowd. and chanting, thank you, thank
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you, thank you, and yes we can, yes, we can. >> stand by. we'll bring out one of our fellow colleagues that you know so well, ari, are you hearing the same thing? >> reporter: yeah, i am. like chris, i've been out here a little bit. i was not outside the courtroom but i just spoke with an aclu attorney who was inside and who is confirming as you know this dramatic stay being granted. he explained this protects anyone who has already achieved lawful status in any way. and they believe will address all detention issues for those lawfully previously admitted people into the united states. how far does it go? i asked what about a new entrance from one of these seven disfavored countries. he stated that would not change. so that part of the want in the
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future for future potential entrance is still, according to the aclu, outside of this scene in the courthouse, that part of the ban is still active. i asked him, is this a full victory or a partial victory as far as the aclu is concerned? he said it is the first in a string of victories. >> so to be clear here. the executive order signed at noon, this is your space here. not only basically said no more, the refugee program that has been in place for so many years here in the united states, from that executive order, was banned for a period of time. that was one element. the second, the seven countries that you brought up. the immigration process, whether legal or not, was also frozen. and you're saying that those two still remain? >> what i'm saying is, that the aclu says this stay protects anyone who was already lawfully admitted or was going to make it
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to u.s. soil. because then they would be afforded certain rights. but if an individual is tomorrow in one of those seven countries and starting from scratch, this aclu attorney tells me coming out of courtroom, that part doesn't change. but again, to be clear, not to get too lost in the details, it is a huge and swift victory here. a setback in no uncertain terms legally to what up until tonight was assumed to be a completely lawful process that would be implemented with all due haste by the agencies. this changes all of that. >> as the executive order stood yesterday, was it still those who started from zero? they would be affected by this order? >> yes. the way it has been written, and this has been reported throughout the day, the order
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came out but didn't have supporting detailed guidance. the agencies had not been formally consulted in the traditional way. so some of the questions that you just posed and we wondered about, weren't known. what about refugees just arriving? so the aclu telling us here tonight, this protects anyone who has lawful status. a green card, an asylum, you name it. but does not yet deal with what are the rest of the legal challenges? the forward looking immigration policies changed by this order to tighten immigration in many ways. >> before that, how gray of an area was that? >> i think it was a gray area. i think there were a lot of questions. the order cited different laws to get to countries talking
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about, it didn't explain what would happen to the people en route. so reasonable people might interpret it differently. >> what's next? what will the trump administration do? >> let's be cheer. this has been a productive first week by any measure for a new administration. it is also in return, a very fast legal setback. i am hard pressed to think of an executive order running into this kind of legal head winds this quickly. so what is next is the aclu will continue this litigation. they have broader arguments not granted. they argued, i saw when they were filing the briefs, that this is religious discrimination that has not been ruled on. that would be a problem if proven. so there will be a wider attack on the entire order and there are other groups planning to litigate. c.a.r.e. announcing they want to file suit monday. what is somewhat striking and
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unusual is to see such a quick injunction, at least for part of order. this is a huge boost to those who would challenge the legality and legitimacy of this order in an area where generally there is an incredible deference to the president. >> what was the burden for the aclu lawyers as well as others who were representing these two individuals and asking for a national stay? what was the burden of the argument they had to make to that federal judge, do you think? >> well, a big part of their burden was to say this is necessary and it is better for a court to err on the side of the status quo. stopping this thing that allows it to continue. and because this is in the handle of a temporary injunction, we talked about the order having temporary changes. this kind of initial movement from a judge is not of course the end of the case. it is a finding that the aclu has met the burden that it would be better in the interests of justice and the people involved,
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and the government's interests. it would be better to hit pause, let this case play out and figure it out, rather than execute the order. for folks trying to make sense of this, it is still possible in the future that the trump administration could win this very case we're talking about tonight. tonight was a judge saying, based on the problems, we're going to hit pause. later in a fuller court proceeding, you would get a more final judgment about this. and that can always change in the future. but again, that is a legal point. practically everyone will see this as a huge boost. the aclu getting action. >> might the process here, ari, as you've watched this in the past, might the process of the back and forth outlive the arc of the different time spans related to the bans listed in this executive order? >> that's such a great question. you're really putting your finger on it.
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for viewers watching the protests, there has been talk of a permanent ban. while donald trump spoke aggressively throughout the campaign, the order itself talked about a review process of several months for several programs. to your point, now you have a second independent judicial branch review of part of the programs. so yes. if donald trump's position was some of these things had to be completely suspended, chug potentially those lawfully admitted recently, he is not going to get that as part of e the, what he wants. the part right now is for them good news. they were litigating for this. for those arguing that immigration must be tightened, it will go a little differently than the trump administration
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had planned. >> so if one of those is the 90-day ban that we've been talking about. then essentially, the trump administration could just write another executive order. is that correct? >> that's 100% correct. and again, this incredibly unusual swift rejection of at least part of the goals of this executive order does not change the larger balance of power. he can order it at basically any time, work with the agencies in any way and anything court doesn't directly bar, that isn't what they call here, a temporary injunction, is still on the menu for the trump administration. we have seen this before. this is an opening chapter. we have seen presidents test their powers. george w. bush in the area of security, barack obama in the area of allowing more immigration transitions without
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congress. and we've seen courts push them back. the key thing, it matters a lot to anyone stuck in an airport over the last day. the larger point is, this is the first blowback to donald trump's very busy first week. to president trump's cascading executive action. if history is a guide, it will have some constraint on what he is trying to do. the courts can do things that congress can't in shutting things down and narrowing things and forcing them to pause. so it is significant even though it is not a complete stop sign for the entire order by any means. >> ari, great context. our chief legal correspondent on site. we have the breaking news, a national stay for the executive order from friday on detainees.
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we are watching live pictures at jfk airport.
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the big news, a stay has been granted. the stay is national and they're saying we won, the aclu. they were trying to help those who were detained at various airports across the country. jfk, 12 individuals detained there. when we look at chicago, there we had heard also, about 10, 12 or 13 that were detained at chicago's o'hare. we're also hook at houston. also, there reports of individuals being detained. immigrants coming to the country, and or refugees. then we had boston logan's airport. also there were protests. and these just some of the many locations that we have been able to share. pictures, video, and sound by those who care about it, lawyers, activists, those who
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have been on the ground, the policy that has caused this reaction. that executive order at around 12:00 noon eastern yesterday. also another location, dallas-ft. worth. the airport there. one of the busiest in the country. chris jose, you and i were talking when chris hayes said that a stay has been granted nationally. let me be very specific according to what we know at the moment of what that stay may mean. and that is, those who are currently detained cannot be sent back to their country of origin or where they traveled from. the second is that whether they will be released immediately or what the process of that not known specifically. we're going to wait to get some
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of the details coming out of that brooklyn courthouse that chris hayes was at. and then finally here, they would require a list of all the names detained so far. big news there. the aclu wanted at least some sort of sense of success, they believe, because they got this from the federal judge that they have had a small victory. has that resonated there? are protesters there, are family members there aware of this development? >> immigration attorneys are aware of that. we'll bring in a family member shortly. i can tell you from talking to the immigration attorneys here at dfw airport, there is some sort of optimism now. you can see the crowd getting larger.
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this place is almost filled to capacity. more than 500 people right now, making their voices heard. you hear the chant of no justice, no peace. we were trying to figure out the advocates were trying to figure out who were supporters and who are actually family members here. so i know some of the immigration attorneys are trying to get ahold of some of the families still waiting for individuals who are detained inside the terminal. so i'm bringing in michelle rodriguez. i spoke to you a short time ago. so the stay was granted. what are you hearing from your folks on the ground? >> the stay is granted and it is a nationwide stay. so it affects all of us. what that means is the ban right now is on hold. that means they cannot ban
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people from those seven countries. they can't enforce anything that comes in that muslim ban. so we are hoping what that means, these people who are traveling, we believe they are traveling with valid visas that were issued completely legally. hopefully that means they would be complete the and be with their family members. if they get through gate here, would they be here for a period of time? >> it will depend on the amount of time that they're given. that will be a question in materials of how much time they're given to be in the country. they have that discretion as far as how long they get to stay. typically it is about six months. >> a small victory right now? >> we'll take it, yes. a small victory. >> remember, we spoke to you about 90 minutes ago. so a stay was granted. are you feeling optimistic for your family? >> i'm sorry, what? >> a stay was granted.
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>> what is that? >> a stay. i'm not sure if you knew that. it happened a short time ago. let's step over here. >> i'm hearing all the stuff frefr one. i'm so confused about what is happening. >> chris hayes from msnbc reporting, it is confirmed now that a stay was granted. meaning that your family, they won't be sent back. are you feeling optimistic in. >> yes. i'm feeling happy for my family, for everyone's family who has been here since morning. waiting for the families just so they can see them. i mean, i can't even describe how i feel right now. i hope it is not just here at dfw. i hope it is nationwide. >> the fight is just starting. >> i'm not going on stop until
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everyone can see their families. even when this is done. this ban should be lifted. this should not be here. after this day we should still continue fighting this ban. >> don't go anywhere. stand by with us. >> the crowd getting larger and larger by the hour. we've been here with you for about 90 minutes or so now. we first got here at 3:00 this afternoon. there were only about two dozen people here. a small victory right now is what supporters and some family members are claiming. >> and chris, great interview there with him. i wonder what he thinks, because you know, just moments before, he may have questioned the processes that were in their movements here in the united states, that was keeping his parents from him. and now an equal and opposite
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energy really of those a are many volunteers and many who are of the community said this is not right. the aclu taking away politics from it had stood up to keep his parents in the country. just seeing his expression, i have to wonder if he is still close by, how he could move from one end to another and then back to the other. he looked very happy. >> yes, it looked like he stepped away in this big crowd behind us. we're certainly asking that question. >> it is the happiest we've seen him all day. we've been here since about 3:00 this afternoon. and all afternoon, all this evening, you could feel that he was dejected. and his energy was burned.
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you can see his supporters here. they're trying to lift their spirits up. >> do i see the immigration lawyer is close by. what are the elements, you've been so fantastic to us, getting this story out across the country. what her sense is from there in dallas, texas, about the reality, at least from what we know right now, is that still means those who have not started the process from the seven countries, did not start the process as a refugee, are still affected by this order. so some of her clients potent l potentially will not necessarily have the outcome that they wanted. what she might think of that. >> sure. let me grab her. michelle, we're with msnbc again. richard is standing by with us. what is the outlook now?
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now that this has happen, what's next? what is the outlook? >> i think we're optimistic that we can get the people who are detained released. then they should be able to come in and regular business, because it's been banned. we have to wait until the case is heard in court. that may be a few days. and then we'll have to go from there and figure out our next move. >> for the folks still inside, currently detained. they're just starting this process. what is the outlook for them? >> hopefully when they come out, we can encourage them and say this is a very welcoming country. hopefully they'll come back and see us again. >> we're talking to the different families out here this afternoon. clearly frustrate with the whole process. it has been a whirl wind for them. are they feeling more optimistic now that a stay was granted?
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>> we are just getting started but i think it gives us at least a sense that there may be some justice here. that we'll get a good look at this. and hopefully this will not stand. there is a hot of scrutiny that needs happen. the order that was issued, the press release, more than an executive order. in order to accomplish what he is trying to accomplish, there has to be protocol this place. they haven't done that yet. i think nobody knows what to do. inside their agency. at least we haven't seen any guidance yet. once we know what we're dealing with, perhaps we can figure out the best strategy. i think right now people are tired. i spoke with one son whose mother was entering the united states for the very first time. she had just gotten her green card. she was making the very first entry. she was told she wasn't going to
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be able to enter so i think it has been a very harsh roller coaster. >> an immigration attorney here in north texas. she'll be here throughout the evening. those are these folks. it doesn't look like the crowd is going to die down any time soon. >> there at dfw dallas international airport. and leaning out, not only michelle there but also, the young man who is now smiling a little more broadly this hour. thank you so much. i want to get to adam schiff who joins us now. representative, it is 9:37. 6:37 if you're on the west coast right now. what a roller coaster we have been on today.
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now a little sunlight for all those protesters who are hoping for something like this. now a national stay that would say this. one, those who are detained at airports cannot be sent back to their country of origin, whether it be their nationality or where they came from. and this is video from earlier, this is where it all happen out of brooklyn, new york, the federal courthouse. in the last 30 minutes, chris hayes confirming what happened. the second item is whether or not they would be released now, later, in the future, that we don't know. and then third, that the government would be required to list all names of those detained. however, those who start from zero as our chief legal correspondent has been saying. they are still affected that i
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this executive order. so when you put that all together, if you're a lawyer from the aclu, you have that small victory. >> i think it is bigger than a small victory. there are people all around the country who may be subject to detention right now. and this is a very important step. you're right, it is not the whole deal. they've already been vetted. some of which have risked their hives. i was there meeting with iraqis. i can only imagine how much more difficult our job just got in iraq. how can we ask people to rick their lives for us, serving as interpreters, helping with logistics, if when push come to shove, we cannot help them. how do we expect to get support fromship countries if we're saying muslims aren't welcome in the united states. this order was very ill
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considered, very poorly implemented and i hope this stay is the beginning of the repeal of this order. >> being from the state of california. where span he shall became spoken by more than half that state in the year 2000. a state that has large immigrant communities from asian countr s countries, from asian countries, from the middle east. when you look at that span of how long it he's the become a u.s. citizen. how long it he's the become a permanent resident. to get that green card. there are a lot of folks that are in that process. which means, according to what we understand from the stay, they all got a reprieve. for them, that's big news. for the aclu, i was saying small news. they wanted the entire order to get a stay. >> you're right.
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in california, this is part of our fabric. people coming from everywhere making this their home. from mexico, the pacific rim of also the american story. and what so appalls me about this action, here we are, a country founded by people seeking religious liberty, one of the bedrock principles of the nation, on all today's, holocaust remember ranls day, this new president issues an order, which is essentially a religious test. he can try to masquerade it but that's what it is. that's what he said he would do during the campaign. though many may have thought this was hyperbole. this is how it starts. it starts with a temporary suspension. with something masking as country of or general. it is religious discrimination and it should have no place in america. >> you are a critic clearly of the executive order.
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you want more detail. what will, for instance, dhs do? what will i.c.e. do? you twheetd a couple hours ago that said you wanted more information. what do you want to know now? >> i would like to know for my part in los angeles, is there anyone being detained at l.a.x.? we want to make sure they can seek legal redress. now the new court injection. the federal government now, the department homeland security and others, are going to have to report to the court. not just as i've asked with what is happening . i would not be surprised if the federal government doesn't know. doesn't have a full repository of information about who is
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impacted by this order. it is why it shouldn't be done in such a ship shod action. and as someone focuses on national security. this plays right into the story that al qaeda and isis want to tell about america. that muslims are not welcome here. that there is a war of civilizations. a war, a story that they would like the tell. i we shall our president junlt stood. >> i had asked him about what this meant for the military. one of those people detained was an interpreter for about a decade in iraq. something you were alluding to earlier. he was saying, this is not political. we need to take care of these people. this is very unfortunate. and we need to stop this.
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he was not going so far to say the order itself inherently was bad. certainly that would take him into a space he does not want to go to. as a veteran, a form he brigadier general. in your case as a politician, you are very clear about your dislike for it. the question might be, how do you work across the aisle? as you have talked with your colleagues, what do they tell you? what do you think this might mean come the next session? >> this should be bipartisan concern for a number reasons. not the least of which in the intelligence world. often one thing you can incentivize people to help you, the chance to become an american citizen. the chance to bring their family to a safe place.
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the chance to experience freedom. what will they think now who have been working with us with the hopes that they can come in? it will we can't get cooperation in the war zones so this puts people at risk. this ought to be an argument that people on both sides understand. i would hope when the president cites 9/11, he is talking about hijackers that came from none of the countries on this list. the domestic attacks since 9/11 have not come from refugees. they've come for the most part from people born in the united states. so that ought to be a bipartisan concern. i will tell you this. right now, my gop colleagues for the most part, don't want to cross this president. they're hoping to get whatever they can get from him for the first few months.
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they're worried about the trump supporters in their districts. we need to step up and show some back bone because things like this are deeply injurious. >> at least 10 to 15 attorneys gather tlerg at the international attorney there at tom bradley to help travelers mostly from iran who have been detained. when you look at the southland, when you look at the los angeles area. the metropolitan area. it has the largest iranian community in the country. how have they reacted to what has happened? either they are reto this or what's happening in the u.s. >> there are a number of iranian refugees who have come to this country and they're deeply
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worried this opportunity for loved ones, family members who are trying to flee persecution in iran may no longer have that opportunity. so there's great fear, not only from iran but other countries in the middle east. they will not be reunited with family member examines those who are potentially at grave risk may be subject to arrest, detention, violence or even death. so grave concerns here. i've heard from a great number. they want to get their families out and they are wondering, what will happen to my family now? >> well, they might read this. this coming in from our justice correspondent pete williams. the wording coming down from the judge in brooklyn that requires the united states to admit
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arrivals with valid visas. this is the detailing. >> for the reasons set out, the motion to stay is granted and the respondents are enjoined from removing individuals with refugee applications approved by u.s. citizenship and immigration services as part of the u.s. refugee admissions program. holders of valid immigrant and nonimmigrant visas and others from iraq, soonld, yemen, legally authorized to enter the united states. and that is the word coming from the judge that is set in, with individuals standing at dfw and other airports, are absolutely elated to hear about. as they are getting the
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informing. not only from lawyers who are stationed at all these airports in dozen, and many wondering, what was going to be the answer? that is the answer on this saturday at 9:49, coming down from that court. we'll have more after this. tiki barber running a barber shop? yes!!! surprising. yes!!! what's not surprising? how much money david saved by switching to geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. who's next?
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[ cheering ] that was what set it all off not more than about 30, 40 minutes ago. those are in the courthouse in brooklyn, new york, not only witnesses but also some of those part of the aclu and others that were pushing for a national stay of a portion of the executive order that was related to refugees and immigrants from seven different countries that was signed on friday, and the
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crowd went wild. our chris hayes was there, host of "all in with chris hayes." he broke that for us here on msnbc not too long ago. the individual that was leading the aclu in this effort, anthony romero, was there. he joins us by phone right now. anthony, first of all, just the amount of energy we see pictures of individuals with fists in the air and this was so expectant. first tell me about the reaction after you heard from the judge when it was said yes, this national stay has been granted. >> well, thank you for having me on the show. yes, it was we were incredibly moved and exhilarated by the reaction of folks on the street and social media. we were feverishly working through the night last night to make sure we were able to file this complaint and request for
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the stay and our demands on behalf of our clients but also a whole class of individuals we believe were affected by this unconstitutional executive order. when i was approaching the courthouse for the hearing, i was stunned to see hundreds of people already in front. we had only gotten word a couple hours ago about the fact we would have this emergency hearing on saturday evening and the energy from folks outside the courthouse was just really palpable. >> now down to the detail. it is of course early on. we are in the first hour at least from learning of this national stay. what exactly did you accomplish? >> well, the national stay is important because it preserves the status quo. that means individuals who have been granted visas who are green card holders, who are on airplanes last night and landed today and they were being turned away or being held by the u.s.
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government and not allowed entry into the country, the judge fully understood that chance of irreparable harm if these individuals were to be returned back home to syria, to iraq, to iran, and so she basically issued this nationwide stay, saying that anyone who is now here cannot be forced back on to planes and returned to their countries of origin. what's also important is the executive order is also stayed to the extent that individuals who have valid visas now cannot be denied entry so clearly this is just the first day of a -- what will be a long battle but the judge understood the consequences for hundreds if not thousands of immigrants and refugees and now the onus is on the trump administration to prove that this order is both constitutional and lawful from their perspective. >> what's your estimation of those now that have been
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affected by this national stay, those who already have visas, those who have already had approvals to come to the united states? >> well, our numbers are somewhere estimating about 200 or so individuals we think are directly affected by this. we have reports of several dozen people in newark airport, we hear similarly from aclu offices in san francisco, l.a., dallas and elsewhere. what i think is really important, i would underscore, the judge ordered the government to turn over the list of individuals who have arrived and who have not yet been granted entry. so getting a definitive list from the government about who is being detained by them at the airports or in detention centers will help us enormously understand who is in this limbo and how to make sure we get lawyers to help them in their cases. >> what about those who have been granted entry into the united states legally with papers and have not yet gotten
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into the system, entry into the united states? do you estimate a number that currently has not tried to enter the united states within the last 24 hours? >> no. we don't have a sense of those numbers but there could be several thousand individuals affected by this. >> in this case, with your national stay then, they can still enter, is that correct? >> it is our understanding that with this stay on the executive order that individuals who have been granted lawful visas or permits or work authorizations or green card holders will be allowed to enter the u.s. now, where they will be held is another matter. not entirely clear the government will release them into the communities or their families but at least they will be allowed to set foot on american soil and not face retribution of returning back to their home country. >> a space you know well here are the detention centers which
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have been controversial through the obama administration and before even to this day. is that a possibility for these individuals, they might be held there? >> well, it was certainly one of the concerns we were raising with the judge about the need to move along the schedule for consideration of our request longer term. and clearly, we are concerned about the conditions of the detention centers. we have always been monitoring and tracking them. what helps now is we will be able to have a definitive list of individuals who are being held and not yet released on american soil. so we will be able to jump into the detention centers, track the conditions, make individual cases for their release. our first two clients have already been released by the u.s. government. so when we put lawyers, the individual cases, we have a much better chance of having more individuals released to their communities. >> i have to ask you, you wanted
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more. what happens to those who have not started this process or are in process of these applications, they are still beholden by this executive order, is that correct? >> well, what's clear is the judge only ruled today to preserve the status quo. she's not ruling on the constitutionality generally of the executive order. we believe the executive order is unconstitutional. we believe it violates the fifth amendment, we believe it violates the first amendment, and we live to fight another day to make sure this executive order dies on the vine. >> you will fight for that but effectively, that continues, then, based on -- that part of what we have been discussing over the last 24 hours, that still goes forward. no doubt as you were saying, you will fight against that, correct? >> yes. the constitutionality of this executive order will be determined in the weeks and months ahead. >> anthony romero from the aclu,
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executive director, have yyou hd a very busy probably 48 hours. i know you will get a good night's sleep. >> let's see. let's see. thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> of course. my pleasure. thank you. >> now joining us on the phone is the u.s. senator of illinois, tammy duckworth. senator, you come from a state also with a large immigrant population. we were following some of the pictures coming out of chicago o'hare airport, the nation's busiest airport, where there were lawyers stationed at desks to assist what we estimate to be about 10 or 12 detainees or i should say, those that were detained at the airport. we have live pictures right now. people are still gathering. as you have been following what's happening in your state, what can you tell us? >> well, there were

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