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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 1, 2017 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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other country has those e-mails, to be honest with you, i'd love to see them. then states fight back as the administration asks for voter information. >> let's find out how significant >> now, the white house accused of trying to coerce the cable news hosts. >> if you call the president up and apologize for your coverage, then he will pick up the phone and basically spike this story. >> and the health care bill in serious trouble, as the white house suggests repail, not replace. >> the president hasn't changed his thinking at all. but we're looking at every possible option. >> all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, in one week, president trump will meet for the first time in person, with russian president vladimir putin
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when the two leaders speak on the sidelines of the g-20 summit, that meeting has a lot of people worried. jack reid said today, president trump's eagerness to meet with vladimir putin seems ill-advised and western officials fear a president who in may apparently disclosed some of the u.s. intelligence secrets could do even more damage. moscow believes putin can extract major concessions from trump at the meeting. putin is very good at these first meetings, he has an agenda, he knows how to maneuver people. the longer he stays in the room, the more dangerous it is. looming over the meeting will be russia's interference in the u.s. election. something president trump refuses to acknowledge. the press secretary sarah huckabee sanders refused to say whether the president will bring the issue up. >> clearly the biggest topic between the u.s. and russia
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right now. the fact that moscow meddled in the election, is the president going to press putin on that? >> i'm not going to get ahead of the president's conversation. >> the question at the center of the russia investigation is whether president trump or members of his campaign included with the russians in their successful campaign to influence their election. the president has denied any collusion on his part specifically. yesterday, we got a crucial new piece of information. it makes clear what the most pressing questions are for reporters and investigators. vladimir putin's animous toward hillary clinton is well known. he blames her for the protests in russia where he was accused of fixing the election. clinton was still widely expected to win the presidency. and that's where president trump comes in. he seems to have believed that a different set of e-mails, the
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one that hillary clinton had deleted from her personal server saying they were not work related, had the potential to destroy her candidacy and put him in the white house. last july, he directly asked the russians to find the e-mails and release them. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. >> later he dismissed katy tur's question. >> it gives me no pause, if they have them, they have them. you know what gives me more pause, a person in our government, crooked hillary clinton -- here's what gives me pause, be quiet, i know you want to save her. >> we know that president trump wanted clinton's e-mails, the ones that had been deleted from the server, we know that his
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close adviser michael flinn had contacts in the russian government and intelligence apparatus, including famously having attended a dinner with vladimir putin, flynn even boasted that he was the first u.s. officer ever allowed inside the headquarters of the gru, the russian intelligence agency. trump badly wanted clinton's e-mails, he believed russia had them or had access to them, he knew michael flynn had connections to russia, a question, did the president ever ask michael flynn to help him acquire hacked hillary clinton e-mails from the russians? >> yesterday, the wall street journal reported that before the election, peter smith embarked on a freelance campaign to get clinton's missing e-mails from the russians. and that while doing so, intimated he was working with none other than flynn. journal also reported the bombshell news that investigators have examined reports from intelligence agencies that describe russian hackers discussing how to obtain
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e-mails from mrs. clinton's server and transmit them to mr. flynn via an intermediary. this does not prove michael flynn was involved. we know that president trump has gone to tremendous, even reckless lengths to protect michael flynn. the president chose not to fire flynn as national security adviser despite repeated warnings from the acting attorney general that flynn had been lying about his conversations with the russian ambassador and was exposed to possible criminal liability for it, and was susceptible to russian blackmail. he only fired flynn after those lies were leaked to the press. the president asked james comey to back off flynn. asked other officials to lean on comey to do so. he fired comey when he did not comply. the president has defended flynn, despite firing him for lying. >> michael flynn, general flynn is a wonderful man, i think he's been treated very unfairly by the media.
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as i call it, the fake media in many cases. and i think it's really a sad thing that he was treated so badly. >> flynn himself has gone silent publicly, in march, he said he was willing to be interviewed in exchange for immunity. general flynn has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it. joining me now, rachel maddow who has been covering it better than anyone. >> i don't know, that was pretty good. >> i'm curious what you feel of this story. in terms of the waves it sent has not been as large as others. for me personally, the way i feel like i'm putting the facts as we know them into view, seems like one of the most significant because it puts flynn at the center of something, and it gives some plausible vision of what exactly someone might be up to in reaching out to the russians. >> i think you laid it out
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perfectly. we've now been looking at this long enough as a country. we know enough about the investigation into it, that some parts of it are clear and well established, nobody credible can deny that russia attacked our election process, that they stole e-mails from the dnc, the clinton campaign, they turned them around through -- basically a weaponized leak system, which they ran alongside a propaganda campaign to try to drive the election in donald trump's favor. we are all supposed to agree with that now, it's never been rebutted. the intelligence agencies say with high degree of certainty that's what happened, okay. beyond that, we don't know that much. >> right. >> and what the wall street journal and shane harris broke yesterday are two very important stories. one of them you just read a piece of there, that's brand new and a huge deal. >> and in some cases, buried the lead. >> the source is dead 10 days after the interview, and all this intriguing stuff here.
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according to the wall street journal, investigators have examined reports from intelligence agencies that have described russian hackers discussing how to obtain clinton e-mails from her server and transmit them to flynn. that is the first time we've had any reporting like that. >> that's right. >> that says that investigators are looking not just at the contacts between russians or even russian officials in the trump campaign, this is contacts for the purpose of helping them in the campaign. >> and what -- i agree completely, what's so significant about that, it's been hard to separate out the wheat from the contacts. there are contacts that could be entirely innocent. people have contact, right? there are some contacts that look strange. we the other thing about this, that i thought about, i thought back to what campaigns will do -- the lengths they'll go to, the idea that there was a bombshell hiding that's represented of the story. smith thought, this is the
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silver bullet, to feed hillary clinton. those e-mails, the president of the united states talked about them all the time. the idea was hiding in the 33,000 e-mails were clear evidence of wrong doing, clear evidence of things she covered up, they talked about how she bleached her server. at least for smith, there's a motive to included to get these e-mails. >> and he's open about that. >> he said it on the record. >> we don't have to infer that, he says it on the record, he's rather proud of it. we knew the people who had these, were probably around the russian government. there's no bleeding ignorance here. they know they're going to the russian government. that's confessed to. >> and the other part of this is that there's one other person on the record saying it by name who believes that, which is the president of the united states. because he looked into the camera, and i've been talking to people about this story.
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my operating assumption here is, there's no need for any secret back dealing. the president of the united states looked into the camera during the campaign and said, russia, please hack hillary clinton. >> it's one thing to say it aspiration ali, and he says it was a joke, and i meant it in a sarcastic way, well, okay, if that was -- >> it was clear when he responds to katy tur that he doesn't. >> and he has a weird sense of humor and it's hard to tell. taking his words at face value or for what they seem to imply is a fool's errand. even if you take that as the most innocent thing possible, it was aspirational. we have evidence that there were american confederates in the russian plan. there were americans who tried to get in on what the russians were doing. and now the question is whether or not that was at the behest of or in conjunction with the trump
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campaign. that's where the connections between this guy, peter smith, who's died now, peter smith and flynn, what he described as his own connection with flynn become very important. and it's where it becomes very important as to how much really the way the justice department is going to approach flynn, because -- >> that's exactly right. the choice flynn's going to have to make, if he is -- if what's implied in this article is true about limb, is how much he wants to talk about what he did. and how much he wants to take it on himself, and how much he wants to take it on the campaigning. >> it does one other thing for me that's been clarifying. whatever happened on the first order, and the obstruction of justice, everything that happened in attempting -- in firing the fbi director, in obfuscating and disembling why they did so. at the center of that, is the one request that we know the president made at least according to james comey under oath, which is to lay off flynn. flynn has always been the
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person, sally yates gets concerned and goes over there twice, they don't fire him. they fire him, and start defending him in public. he asked james comey not to go after them. the through line here between the two parts of this story, which is whatever happens with the russians and what they were doing about trying to stop james comey for what he was doing, michael flynn is the nexus of both of those. >> we believe although it's unclear, we bereave the requests the president made to them may also have been specific to the flynn case. rather than being in general about russia. that's a little -- we have much less information about that, because we don't have much public testimony about it as we do from comey. there's a lot that doesn't make sense about flynn in the first place. why did they hire him, healed on to him for so long. after they got hair on fire warnings about him from the justice department. why did they let him stay on for 18 days thereafter, and then they didn't fire him.
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they never collar phied on the record any of the false statements that he made, or other administration officials made on his behalf, the president has been defending him. the president leaned on one person to try to stop that investigation, and the silence of michael flynn throughout this entire period, he has not spoken publicly since he left the white house, is starting to feel like the real center of the bull's eye. >> i could not agree more. >> i feel like this story was one of the first times, often i feel more confuses or more pulled in different directions, this story was the first story i read in a long time where i could see a line, sort of emerge. they wanted smith at least, i'm not just talking about smith in reporting. they wanted the hacked e-mails. >> yeah. >> they thought that was the game, the silver bullet, hillary clinton's hacked e-mails are going to be the thing that brings down hillary clinton. >> think about the time line here. he's convening this group of experts and a russian language speaking security -- all the investigators on labor day, by
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that point if you are not at all suspicious or bothered by russia attacking our election. at that point there's a lot of wow factor in terms of what we know. >> that's true. >> they got into the democratic national committee's materials and released them in such a way, that during the democratic convention the chair had to resign. the way they've rolled stuff out, the stuff they have access to, by that point, the washington post is reporting that u.s. intelligence and law enforcement is on to a massive russian attack on our election. there's a lot to be impressed by if you're not patriotic on this, and you want to use it for our own purposes. >> rachel maddow will be back in less than an hour. joining me now, ted lieu of california. your reaction to the wall street journal story? >> first of all, thank you, chris, for highlighting this story, this is a bombshell article, if the allegations are true, we have very strong
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evidence of collusion, you have russian hackers specifically discussing how to steal information from hillary clinton's server and transfer them to michael flynn who is a senior adviser to the trump campaign. that's about as direct a line of collusion as you can have. >> do you -- are you confident that ultimately get to the bottom of michael flynn, who has invoked his fifth amendment constitutional right. he's shopping for immunity and has not spoken publicly. >> i am confident, our special counsel is not messing around. look at the people he's hired. the top person involved with foreign corruption and bribery. i believe the special council will get to the bottom of michael flynn. and keep in mind there's been other press reports saying that michael flynn when discussing
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information with a female and russia. he signed his e-mails as general misha. what american military officer will ever do that. >> he could be trying to ingratiate himself or sort of tongue in cheek, he seemed to think in his -- that he had a nonsinister and genuine relationship with his russian counterparts. >> that could be true, if he corroborated with them, in the trump campaign, that is collusion, and i want to put to bed right now some of the crazy notions i've seen on fox news. not that i watch it all that much. >> you sound like the president now. >> these crazy notions that if
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there was collusion, it's not a crime. not only is it treason, you cannot as a campaign, accept foreign contributions, including money. the trump campaign included, it would be the largest in the history of the united states. >> the timing is interesting, i should know. about a week before this story was published, which is also owned by rupert murdoch. were that to be found it would not constitute a crime, you're someone who was a former prosecutor. you're saying it would. yes, as a flat out violation. it's a direct prohibition. there's no way around that. >> do you think that -- is your expectation that should further
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evidence of that come out, that the defense will simply move in that direction. even if they did it, it's okay. i don't think that will be the defense, because keep in mind, that's not the white house defense. it's not what trump is saying. the white house is saying this never saying, if it happened, the president didn't know anything about it. >> the latter point is key, the last time he was pressed on this, he said, the president, i think i'm quoting verbatim, i can only speak for myself, when talking about this, which i thought was an interesting distinction made by the president. representative ted lieu. thank you for your time tonight, happy fourth. allegations that the trump administration threatened hosts on this network with a national enquirer hit piece in an attempt to force an apology on their coverage. the future isn't silver suits and houses on mars,
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in the wake of the president's crass tweet about them yesterday. two hosts on this network say the white house once tried too use the threat of a salacious tabloid story about them, to extract an apology to the president of the united states for their coverage. >> we got a call that hey, the national enquirer is going to run a negative story against you guys. and it was -- you know, donald is friends with the president, is friends with the guy that runs the national enquirer. they said, if you call the president up and you apologize for your coverage, then he will pick up the phone and basically spike the story. >> let me explain what they were threatening. they were calling my children, they were calling close friends -- >> you're talking about the national enquirer? >> and pinning the story on my ex-husband who would absolutely never do that. and joe had the conversations he had with the white house, where they said, oh, this could go away.
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>> the president later seemed to confirm aspects of that account, watched low rated morning joe for the first time in a long time. he called me to stop a national enquirer article, i said no. bad show. that's a lie according to scarborough who has phone records and texts to back up his position. at no time did we threaten joe or mika or their children. we have no knowledge of any discussions between joe and mika. according to reporting by the daily beast and new york magazine, the white house official who communicated with scarborough was none other than the president's son in law. i'm joined now by michelle goldberg. >> i don't know anything other than what has been reported publicly. i have no special access into this and basically take at their word my colleagues. msnbc said they're not going to
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release the threats, those texts. my first thought was, if anyone in that white house is putting something like this in writing, what else are they putting in writing? >> or what else are they saying on the known when there's not going to be a written record. the thing about this story, on the one hand, it's so sordid and farcical and it can be easy to laugh and sneer at. on the other hand, it's deadly serious, if you have people in the white house blackmailing members of the press into better coverage by exposing their sexual secrets. >> the president is we know, friendly with the national enquirer. >> more than friendly, right? >> the national enquirer is devoted to the president, jeff tuben has a great piece in the new yorker, either last week or the week before that, about their relationship. one of the interesting revelations in that piece is that during the campaign there was a former playboy playmate who was shopping around the
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story of her affair with trump while he was married to melania. the national enquirer paid her $150,000, not for her story, but to quash the story. they hired her as a fitness columnist or something like that, on the condition that she not say anything negative about donald trump. >> so right, we know the national inquirer has been allied with the president. there's also -- we were always using this term, it's a raw abuse of power. the idea that you would communicate with people in the media, we can pull some strings for you if you apologize for your coverage is really a very serious abuse of power. >> i mean it's not an exact analog to what nixon did, but they did try to smear people in the press. they planted stories in life
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magazine, tapped the phones of journalists, there was a similar effort to undermine people's reputation and spy on them and destroy people they considered to be their enemies. >> there was the through line obsession with the press. this is what we know from the tapes, from all the accounts of nixon, he was in a clinically compulsive way incapable of just putting at arm's length the press treatment of him. it's manifestly evident in this president that he cannot help himself, the one thing he cares about more than anything, people have documented his tweets. it's not affairs of state or matters of substance. >> i know, he has this kind of tragic relationship with the press, he wants their love and affirmation he can't help himself. in some ways he has it worse than nixon, because there's so much more of the press, it's on all the time, it's harder for him to escape, you can see him watching in realtime. >> he's trying to tear himself
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away, he can't tear himself away, he's enraged, he can't control himself. >> the thing is, because all of this -- because all of this is such a sick joke. because it's so bizarre, i feel like the -- the abuse of power, the real seriousness, the seriousness of saying that you will destroy people with their sexual secrets unless they get in line is a terrifying thing for an administration. >> i should say, prompts the question about who else got calls like this -- that to me is where i would like to see some answers. >> i hope there's investigations on both state and federally. >> thanks so much. >> based on president trump's unfounded claims, his commission demands voter data, and facing massive push back, and new worries about voter suppression, next.
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voter i.d., what's with that? why aren't we having voter i.d.? in other words, i want to vote, here's my identification, i want to vote, as opposed to somebody coming up and voting 15 times for hillary clinton. you won't vote 15 times. people will they'll vote many times, and how that could have happened is unbelievable. >> donald trump has complained about mass voter fraud, despite mountains of evidence it does not happen. he signed an order last month chaired by mike pence and led by chris co back.
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yesterday the commission made its move. everything from names, addresses, dates of birth and political parties to the last four digits of social security numbers to information regarding any felony convictions so far, more than 20 states have rejected that request, citing a duty to protect sensitive information the secretary of state was a member of the president's commission indiana law doesn't provide that information. in mississippi, the secretary of state says his office has not yet received a request, in the event they do, his reply would be, they can go jump in the gulf of mexico. can canning said it won't be sharing information. kobach's history of refuse at to apply.
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just yesterday the president added someone else to his election integrity commission, who has a history of making false unsupported claims of voter fraud. yeah. could save thousands. you should probably buy me dinner. pappa's eatin' steak tonight. no. at lendingtree, shop and compare loan offers from top lenders and in just 5 minutes, you could save thousands. lendingtree, when banks compete, you win. i love date night. somebody's ruining it. yeah. well you could leave if you wanted to?
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we have an honor system in the united states when it comes to voter registration and voting, states do almost nothing to verify the accuracy of the
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information they get when you register to vote. they don't check to make sure you're a real person, they don't check your i.d., they take the information they get on voter registration forms put it into the system and you are promptly registered to vote. >> the newest member of president trump's commission on election integrity. he's the one who's gotten the republican legislature, the republican party to go along with this, even though there's no voter fraud to speak of. he claims one doesn't have to look far to find instances of fraudulent ballots. his viewpoints twins up nicely with the man leading the investigation chris kobach. the man behind trump's voter fraud obsession. joining me now, ari berman. let's start with what they're doing, why are red and blue
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secretaries of state flipping out, and almost, but just stopping short of giving the finger to chris kobach's request. >> he asked every state to provide lots of data on voters, he asked for lots of stuff that wasn't publicly available. >> you can buy a voter file. >> he was asking for things like criminal history, for things like lots of different things. social security numbers, for privacy issues that aren't publicly available and states don't want to give out. i think people thought, it's chris kobach. everyone's going to give these documents over.
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what happened is, you had so many republican states today come out and say they're not going to give this out. my favorite is the indiana secretary of state, who is on kobach's commission said she's not going to give him the data. >> he said he's not going to turning over the social security numbers. here's a question much give us what the histories are and what we should conclude about what they're up to based on those histories. >> hans has been making the case for stricter voter i.d. laws for decades. he was the moving force in the bush justice department when it came to underwriting voter rights. chris kobach picked up right where hans left off. he's the architect of modern day
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voter suppression measures. he's one of the only ones that defend trump's claims that they voted illegally. you have to show proof of citizenship to register to vote. most people don't have on them when they do go to register, one in seven new voters in kansas have been blocked from registering that's an enormous number of people. >> i don't -- i don't have any idea where my birth certificate is, tons of people don't have a passport. >> it was a very suppressive policy, he wants proof of citizenship to be at every state and the federal level. he claims this is necessary, because noncitizen voting is so rampant. he has power in kansas, he's
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only convicted one noncitizen of voting. >> one person? >> one person. >> what are they up to? what is your fear for what they are doing? >> they are going to spread lies about voter fraud in order to build public support for policies that suppress the vote. trump said millions of people voted illegally. >> a preposterous lie everyone knew as they watched it unfold. >> the mission is to purge voting laws. but to do it at the federal level and that's why he wants all this zeta for voters, he's going to try to build support saying, there's all this fraud. >> he could use a predicate to lose legislation federally. >> thank you. >> still to come, was the president's stance on repeal and replace swayed by a guest on a cable news show? why it may be back to square one on the senate bill. an update on tonight's thing one, thing two next.
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thing one tonight, martin skrelli, who won the title of most hated man in america two years ago, he raised the price of an hiv drug by 5,000%, he seemed to revel in the attention. 50 to 100 date solicitations for me. the world's most eligible bachelor. when he was arrested in late 2015, he did not garner a ton of public sympathy, that was on full display this week, when the new york judge struggled to find unbiased jurors. more than 200 potential jurors were dismissed some saying things like, i don't like this person, or the only thing i'd be impartial about, is which prison
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he goes to. low public opinion isn't shkrelli's only problem. he has a problem continuing to talk about his case. >> i think marlton is not going to be speaking to you guys again if he listens to me. >> he just spoke to us. >> that's thing 2 in 60 seconds.
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martin farmer shkrelli scant keep his mouth shut. he bragged in a periscope video, it went great, the judge slapped the government again. it hasn't stopped, today at the courthouse, he walked into the overflow room and surprised journalists by talking to them at length. he called the prosecutor's office junior varsity, his lawyer offered some advice publicly. >> did you mean what you said about the attorneys being junior varsity. >> he's not going to be speaking to you again if he listens to me. >> he just spoke to us. >> i know that. i don't think anything martin says by now is going to affect the case one way or the other i
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would appreciate it if he did not talk to the press, sometimes the -- he doesn't have good -- >> are you getting good advice. >> are you concerned about twitter, his tweeting? >> i'm only concerned. >> martin is that you on twitter?
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republicans have planned to ram a health care bill through the senate this week. that didn't work out, instead, mitch mcconnell put off a vote on the senate bill after both moderates and conservatives in his party balked. some republicans are going even further, suggesting maybe they should only repeal obama care for now and figure out a replacement later. >> a sure fire way to communicate this idea to president trump, go on fox and friends. >> we've been trying to do those two things at once and not
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making enough process. i hope that process could work. most people are leaving d.c. today to go home for the fourth of july weekend, if we don't get this monday of the next week, july 10th, if there isn't a combined repeal and replace plan, i'm writing a letter to the president to call on him to separate them. >> if republican senators aren't unable to pass what they're working on now, they should repeal and replace at a later date sass himself retweeted the president and said, sounds great, we need to break the log jam. >> what happens now? bill cassidy got a taste of what's in store? >> i want to know if you're going to vote for this health care that interrupt has right now, and what can you do to stop this foolishness.
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>> the fight to stop senate republicans from ever passing their health care bill starts this weekend, next. ♪ pressure... i feel it every day. but at night, it's the last thing on my mind. for 10 years, my tempur-pedic has adapted to my weight and shape, so i sleep deeply... and wake up ready to perform. ♪ nothing performs like a tempur-pedic, and our july 4th event is the perfect time to buy one. save up to $500 on select tempur-pedic mattress sets. find your exclusive retailer at
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if there isn't a combined repeal and replace plan, i'm writing a letter to the president this morning urging him to call on us
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to separate them. >> now he probably didn't need the letter because the president was clearly listening and watching. tweets minutes later, quote, if >> the fight to stop senate republicans from ever passing their health care bill starts this weekend, next. i'll tell you what's rude. kicking 22 million people off their health care in this country who you know you cannot afford it. you work at the hospital for a long time. you know what people are like at their lowest. so to step on their necks by kicking them off their health care at this point, that's cruel, sir. >> senator bill cassidy at a town hall today on the receiving end of his constituents' anger over health care. but the republicans' plans to repeal and replace obamacare saw major setbacks this week, the fight is not over at all. instead, it now moves to republicans' home states and districts over the july recess, with senate republicans in particular, as "the washington post" noted, quote, increasingly >> on monday morning. it was this incredibly high leverage shoot the moon strategy, mitch mcconnell. keep it secret, keep it secret, keep it secret.
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put it into the daylight for only six or seven days, see if it can survive. why did it not work? >> because they never sold to it the american people. listen, republicans have failed to realize a very basic premise here. you can't win the hearts and minds of the american people by taking away their health care. and that doesn't mean -- it's true. and it doesn't mean as republicans we have to embrace obamacare. listen, i believe in center right principles. but what it does mean is every republican plan is going to be measured against the breadth of coverage that obamacare established. so what republicans need to recognize is embrace the safety net that at times only government can provide for high risk patients. and that means medicaid, those who can't afford it, medicare, those with preexisting conditions. and if you do that, if you embrace the safety net for high risk patients and those who can't afford it, you actually can restore affordability to the private sector market, and nobody loses coverage. but any bill that is taking away health care coverage from anybody is going to lose. you're not going to be able to sell it. >> is that the fundamental,
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angel? i know you guys have been doing a lot of organizing. it's been really interesting to watch there has been folks from adapt, the disability rights group who have camped out for hours, sit-ins and sleep-ins in cory gardner's office from colorado. indivisible folks outside tom cotton's office. that the central core of the issue here on substantive grounds? >> no, i think that's exactly right. at the end of the day, what we know for a fact is that millions of people are going to lose their health coverage. 22 million people according to the cbo are going to lose their health care. and republicans, instead of owning up to that fact, are now trying the lie to their constituents, saying this isn't as bad as it sounds, nothing is going to happen to medicaid. they're lying to their constituents. and they can't hide the fact that millions of people are going to lose their health care. >> anne gel, what is the plan? the indivisibles organize in a lot of ways getting constituents in front of either their elected representatives or their staffers half. is the plan going into this recess? >> the plan for republicans was to avoid this situation, right? they've tried everything they could to get this vote before
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july 4th because they are terrified of their constituents. and they should be. they should be because they're trying to repel health care away from millions of americans. so now what is interesting about july 4th is that they can't hide from their constituents because a lot of these members love going to these parades and like going the these festivals. and you know what they can expect on july 4th is constituents coming at them, asking them questions, questions that they don't want to answer because they don't have an answer to those questions. >> david, the development today that struck me is really important and notable was i do not underestimate mitch mcconnell. and i watched this play out in the house where there was a first round and they played possum and they were able to pass it ultimately today. today there was a little bit of a jail break. when you rand paul basically saying let's just repeal and not replace. you have reporting conservative groups aren't happy with the bill. the divide is growing. did it feel today like the existing get a deal plan sort of fell apart? >> it did.
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and actually, i think, chris, it was your tweet right away which nailed it. it felt like donald trump dropped a bomb on the whole negotiation. because if you go that route, nothing is going to pass. listen, something that republicans need to realize. and most of them were elected during the time when obamacare had very poor public opinions. that was the reality early on. remember, the lie of the year and so forth. now it's stabilized. but the fact is if you extricate obama's name from this and approach it as national health care policy, there are things that republicans can do that say we do need to drive down costs. we do have markets across 50 states that are losing providers. and let's fix it. but listen, they need to stop following this president, because he is not a policy leader, and they're going to lose the majority on the hill if they do it. >> to david's point, though, it doesn't strike me, angel, that they've been following the president. it's paul ryan and mitch mcconnell who have crafted these bills. and angel, it strikes me the thing that has been most dangerous to them is the strategy of trying to do things fundamentally in secret that
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they know are unpopular and thinking there is some sort of end around. >> that's right. the bottom line is there is no end around. we know what this little billion will do. it's incredible we're going into july and we're still talking about this. the only reason we got this far is all the constituent energy that was pushing against this bill. but the bottom line is back in january, we were talking about repeal and delay. and you know what? americans didn't want it. they didn't want repeal. >> just to be clear, repealing without a replacement would be really, really chaos inducing probably for the markets. >> exactly. and if republicans are serious about doing this, about fixing and making our health care better, they could do something very easily. the cbo identified one easy thing that republicans do and the president could do to make the system better. and that's make sure that the csr, the subsidies are available. that's causing a lot of instability in the markets. that just indicates how they don't care about making the system better. what they want to do is score some points. >> i should note to your point, there are parts of the actual
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bill itself that you can take out, remove from everything else that target basically ways to fund the exchanges to induce more competition and lower costs in them, which you could take that out, rip that out of the bill, you could probably get 70 votes for it when they come back from recess. angel padilla and david jolly, thanks for being with us. rachel maddow, her show starts in addition to flynn, bannon, all this later this hour.


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