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tv   MSNBC Live With Katy Tur  MSNBC  November 16, 2017 11:00am-12:00pm PST

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that's a little bit more than we expected but not enough to really ever put this thing in peril. republicans from california, new york, new jersey, all voting no on this. that's one good sign for the prospects in the senate. there are no republicans from those states in the united states senate. right now, republicans on the house have finished their work and really, there's not a lot they can do except for wait for the senate to work through the complex personal dynamics this bill faces on that side where you have senators like ron johnson, not happy about the business part of the tax plan, to folks like susan collins, lisa murkowski, and, of course, john mccain, who at any point could be wild cards about the inclusion of health care in this bill or about the process or about anything else, all of those republican senators want to get their piece of this in the senate and, you know, that's going to be the tricky part of this process. just like with health care. >> yeah. got to keep an eye on murkowski, collins, mccain, obviously, with
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ron johnson a no on the version. 13 republicans in the house said no, not enough to stop them from passing the tax bill. many of them coming from states where the taxes will be -- end up being raised on the middle class, states like new jersey and new york and california where you cut out the middle class -- i'm sorry the income tax deductions. we should note nbc news has done an analysis on the house bill and we should say that in its current form, the president of the united states and his family stands to save $1 billion if this tax plan ends up going to donald trump's desk and he ends up signing it. garrett haake, thank you very much. stick around for a moment. the top of the hour here on msnbc. i'm katie tur. we're following several breaking stories this hour. as we talked about the house passed a sweeping rewrite of the
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tax code. senator bob menendez meanwhile of new jersey just spoke about the mistrial declared in his bribery trial. and senator al franken of minnesota facing an allegation he kissed and groped a woman in 2006. but any minute now we'll hear from alabama senate candidate roy moore, holding a press conference today, alongside pastors who have come to bear witness. these pastors say they stand behind the embattled republican nominee, despite the growing list of accusers who say moore sexually harassed or assaulted them. some of them while they were teens. one as young as 14. overnight, the number of women climbed to nine, including two women who worked at the very mall that reportedly banned moore because of his behavior. one accuse ir told "the washington post" moore went so far as to call her out of her high school trigonometry class so that he could ask her out on
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a date. >> the scandal surrounding republican candidate roy moore got worse overnight with more women accusing him of inappropriate behavior. >> ranging from unwanted advances to assault, adding to an avalanche of allegations that threaten to bury his campaign. >> the only group with the power to force him out of the race, the alabama republican party, met last night and you would think this would be the moment, but they did not take up the issue. >> i'm not saying that these women are lying. i'm saying we need to be suspicious. >> release the yearbook so that we can determine is it genuine or is it a fraud? >> we have got a team of reporters on the ground covering this story, both in alabama and on capitol hill. let's start with von hillard in birmingham. going to be a press conference with roy moore there and a number of other pastors. do we have any idea what he is going to say?
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>> yeah. hi, katie. about to start behind us. there's going to be about 15 to 20 speakers here in birmingham where roy moore will be appearing, what they're calling pro-fam individuals that will speak on his behalf. i want to put in perspective where we are. there are nine accusers, four more overnight, and i think as these guys begin to speak here i want to jump out of the way. but -- katie, bear with us for one moment here. >> von, are you okay? do we need to go back to you? >> let's -- let's come back to von. meanwhile the news conference with roy moore and the pastors is starting. a number of pastors have gathered there along with a number of women as well. we tried to talk to quite a few pastors here at nbc news who -- alabama pastors, 50, in fact, one of our interns called all, six said they still supported
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moore, one called it a public lynching, two no longer support the candidate, two hung up on us, four had no comment, eight we simply were not able to reach, and the other 28 did not respond to our requests for comment. one of them, though, did agree to appear on television with us and we're going to get to him in just a moment once this press conference begins and then ends. it sounds like or looks like it could be starting any moment now. here we go. >> we seem to have lost audio on this press conference. oh, wait, here it is. >> you guys need to find something more interesting. interesting, a little double standard wouldn't you say. that was three. cost you nothing. okay. the judge is on his way and we'll get started as soon as that happens.
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we have about -- lost count, less than 20 people. we're all going to make a statement. they're going to make their statement and then judge roy moore will say a few words and we'll open it up for some questions. i think i've mentioned to you before that the purpose of this press conference is not to take questions about unsubstantiated claims that have no evidence or certainly any evidence that have been substantiated. i will go off -- i'm going to go off book and just say, three words regarding evidence, release the book. three words, release the book. just free one too. so -- we're told he's on his way. one other thing i'll say before we start, too, is all the names that we give, our titles for identification purposes only. we're not here on behalf of any of our official ministry, churches, organizations. we've all come as individuals and some of them have -- some of us have come at great distances. i don't know what the record is. i think 12 hours. anybody drove more than 12
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hours? how many? >> about 12. >> you had 12 from cleveland. 12 from which city in texas? >> waco. >> colorado. >> texas. >> dallas, texas. how far along is that? >> about ten hours. >> y'all know how to book a flight on expedia? i'm just messing with you. just so you know, i gave these guys -- some of you got 24 hours' notice and flights can get expensive when you buy them the day off. we talked, what was it -- >> monday night. >> while we await roy moore to get to this press conference, we're going to take a break from talking about how far people have traveled there and go to one of our pastors, pastor earl wise, joins us now. he was one of the pastors on the list supporting roy moore and he continues to stand by the candidate. pastor, thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate you being here. >> thank you. >> you know, pastor, hold on a second.
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looks like roy moore has arrived at this news conference. and if he does take the podium we will want to hear from him. looks like he's glad handing at the moment. tell me why do you still support roy moore? >> because in all the time that i've known him, he's been a man of integrity and stands for what he believes, doesn't cave. i just -- i appreciate his courage. >> why does he have more credibility to you, carry more weight, than the nine different accusers who have told very similar stories about mr. moore's behavior towards them when they were quite young, many of whom teenage girls, one 14 years old? >> when i think of the fact that it's 40 years ago, and the fact that there are a lot of people if they can get some publicity or whatever, you know, it's kind of get on the bandwagon and as much as roy moore has been in
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the news and interrogated and interviewed, it seems to me that if their story was real, they would have come up a whole lot sooner than what they have now. >> with why do you think that they would have come up sooner? why do you think a girl who was 14 at the time, would have come out and made a statement like this against roy moore earlier? he's a powerful man in the state of alabama. why do you think that before would have been an easier time for them to do it if it was true? >> why not? why not? because, you know, he's been in the news all the time and if you -- if they wanted to bring that out, you know, it's just a questionable time as to now right at this crucial moment that they would examicome up wi these things. i question the whole situation. >> pastor, i'm sure you've been following the news and i'm sure you know that there are a number of women coming out and telling
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their stories about a number of very powerful men in hollywood. >> right. >> and politics and the media. >> right. >> and other businesses. you don't think that maybe because so many women have been coming out and for the first time women are generally being believed in a way that they had not been before, that you don't believe that any of that had anything to do with these women feeling -- finding the strength to do this at this moment? you think it's just politics? >> politics would be number one. what you mentioned i think could be definitely in consideration, but the fact that there are so many, makes it a little easier as far as the publicity aspect of it. >> a couple of the women said that they voted for donald trump. they say that they're republicans. how does politics weigh in this if their politics align with roy moore? >> there's -- there's no way i
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can really answer that question because i don't know how they look at things. i just know that in the years i've known roy moore, he's been, you know, a man of integrity and the fact is, is that i've spent my whole life emphasizing the fact that god can change people's lives and if things like that happen, that doesn't mean that's what they are today. >> as a judge, though -- >> in the years i've known him -- >> i'm going back to intoes his background. as a judge he challenged alabama's rape shield laws. it's a law that generally bars defendants accused of sexual assault from raising the accuser's sexual history. one instance where a man pleaded guilty to raping a 12-year-old girl and in his dissent roy moore said that the man should have been able to tell the court that the girl was sexually active and she had an std, according to reporting done by "the guardian." does that sit well with you, him arguing that it should have been
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relevant for a 12-year-old girl's sexual history to be brought forth when the man already pleaded guilty to raping her? >> i would have to know more about the situation than what i know to make a comment right now. the whole time that i've known roy moore in the last probably 15 or better years, is that he's been a consistent stands for what he believes and there are those around him that, you know, they -- that he has not -- they haven't reported anything like that here in the recent years that i know of. >> well, it's all in the court records. pastor earl wise of alabama, thank you very much for appearing with us this hour. we appreciate your time. >> well thank you. >> and another well-known figure
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as we await roy moore to take the podium at his press conference, another well-known figure accused of sexual misconduct. los angeles radio anchor leeann tweeden claims al franken forcibly kissed and groped her in 2006 while rehearsing for a uso tour skit. she described the incident during a news conference a short time ago. >> he's like well, we need to practice the kissing scene. i'm like yeah, okay, whatever. i blew him off because i didn't -- like we don't need to practice the kissing scene. it's a quick little thing, you know. then he persisted and like no, we really need to practice the kissing scene. and like okay, al, you just turn your head right, i'll turn my head right, we got this. he kept persisting. i'm like al, this isn't "snl" we're not really going to kiss so we don't have to practice and he just kept persisting and it reminded me of the harvey weinstein tape when you heard the girl wired up for the ny pd
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and persistent and badgering and relentless, you know. and so i was just like, okay, fine. just so he would shut up, you know. and he just sort of came at me and we did the line and he came at me and before you even know it, you kind of get close and he just put his hand on the back of my head and he mashed his face against -- it happened so fast. just mashed his lips against my face and he stuck his tongue in my mouth so fast, and all i can remember is that his lips were really wet and it was slimy. in my mind i called him fish lips the rest of the trip because that's just what it reminded me of. i don't know why. and he stuck his tongue down my mouth and i remember, i pushed him off with my hands. i just remember i almost punched him because every time i see him now my hands clench into fists and that's probably why. i said if you ever do that to me again i'm not going to be so nice about it the second time.
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and i just walked out away from him and i walked out. i just wanted to find a bathroom and i wanted to rinse my mouth out because i was just disgusted. >> tweeden also posted this photo which was taken as the group returned to the u.s. it shows al franken at the very least, mimicking group groping her. nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt joins me from washington. al franken issued quite a lengthy statement, kasie? >> he has. this is his second statement of the day and something that seems a little bit like an acknowledgement that the first one didn't go far enough and i'm just going to kind of read it to you because i think you heard quite a bit right there from leeann tweeden who is making this allegation, so senator franken says, quote, the first thing i want to do is apologize to leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me to everyone i represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. there's more i want to say, but
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the first and most important thing and if it's the only thing you care to hear, that's fine, is i'm sorry. for instance, that picture i don't know what was in my head when i took that picture and it doesn't matter. there's no excuse. i look at it and feel disgusted with myself. it isn't funny. it's completely inappropriate. obvious how leeann would feel violated by that picture. while i don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as leeann does, i understand why we need to listen to and believe women's experiences. i am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken and i will gladly cooperate. so, of course, we have been trying to talk to additional senators to get a sense of, you know, what is going on behind the scenes with their reaction is. so far they are saying this ethics committee investigation is the appropriate way for this to be handled, although i have to say there are quite a few democratic senators who are not interested in talking about this at all. and we -- in particular, this issue has flared up significantly on capitol hill
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over the last couple of weeks. obviously it's rocked hollywood, rocked the media, and just earlier this week there was a hearing here on capitol hill about the practices and policies for dealing with workplace harassment in and around capitol hill and i've spent a lot of time lately talking to women who working on the hill, working on campaigns, working around politics, who have been willing to share their experiences with me anonymously and there is a real common thread going through all of them which is that this is not a problem that afflicts one party or the other, and that women felt betrayed sometimes for different reasons, people who worked for republicans would say, you know, this was a family person that or they're arguing in public they're a family man, when i talked to people who work for democrats i hear these people say they're progressives and they're allies of women in the public sphere and i had this personal terrible experience that affected me and how i felt about working for that cause. so, you know, very quickly these kinds of accusations and allegations and scandals can get
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turned political and become about the party of the person involved and quite frankly the women that i have spoken to have said you know what that's really not what that is about, what this is about at all. this is a problem afflicting people of all political persuasions and is just simply now getting more attention in the public eye. that's something that, you know, i think is important to focus on as we continue to report this out. >> mitch mcconnell has said he called for an ethics investigation. you read the statement from senator al franken who is open to an ethics investigation. kasie, you've been reporting on capitol hill for a while. how exactly will that work? >> so, it's honestly a process that we don't necessarily have a lot of access to. it's typically extraordinarily opaque. we often don't catch wind of when there is an investigation going on. but often when on the senate side in particular it is used, the results of it can be explosive and it is something
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that everybody is very careful about. one person we've talked to today, our capitol hill team, is chris coons, the -- i believe vice chair of that committee, and he said look, i can't talk about this at all because of that rule that i play on -- role that i play on that committee so it's something that typically we don't get a lot of transparency around, but there is one key example here and actually mitch mcconnell now the majority leader was the chairman of the ethics committee at the time when bob packwood the former senator was expelled over sexual -- variety of sexual misconduct allegations, so this is something that has happened before. so far we talked to one democratic senator here, i apologize, we've been standing out in this chilly weather for a little while now trying to talk to senators as they're leaving, leaving on their last votes after the thanksgiving holiday, senator jeff merkley and he said that he thinks that the ethics investigation is the right place to start. wasn't willing to go so far to say this ultimately could cause the expullion of senator
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franken, but this clearly has put a lot of people in a very difficult position here on capitol hill and this is, you know, between this and what's been going on in alabama with roy moore, there's a real kind of feel of reckoning going on. >> is there a concern that the reactions between senator al franken and the ones to candidate roy moore are going to put senators in a difficult position if they're going to take a hardline against roy moore and let's be honest, the allegations are very different, roy moore's been accused of touching children, a 14-year-old girl, and harassing teenagers, and franken has been accused of harassing a grown woman while also not acceptable, they are quite different, but is there -- is there a concern it's going to put them in a tough spot if they want to say roy moore gets elected, expel roy moore, they have to do the same for franken? >> i think that you sort of identified the central piece of
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this, which is, you know, the roy moore allegations i think were immediately recognized as being particularly damaging because of the age of the person involved and that that is a distinct feature of that kind of unfolding story that is important to not lose sight of. we also have been covering the roy moore story for several days now and one thing we've seen with some of these sexual harassment cases is that very often there is not just one person. >> yeah. >> and -- involved or who makes allegations. we start to hear from more and more people and, you know, obviously, this is something that we've only just started talking about today. i think that, you know, there are still questions about whether there would be any additional accusers of senator al franken. right now there is one person who is accusing him of this and i think in the case of roy moore, you've had person after person after person. and i would also point out that in this case, there's nobody that -- out there right now saying i don't believe leeann
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tweeden and her accusations and i think when the roy moore story first broke, the response you heard from senators well if it's true, then this is what i think. you're not hearing that anymore and that's a shift i think that's worth noting. >> kasie hunt on capitol hill outside capitol hill we should say or on capitol hill outside the capitol, thank you very much. senator franken wrote on his facebook page after the allegations against harvey weinstein were made public that women who have shared their stories about harvey weinstein over the last few days are incredibly brave. it takes a lot of courage to come forward and we owe them our thanks. as we hear more and more about mr. weinstein it is important to remember that while his behavior was appalling, it's far too common. again, that is from senator al franken's facebook page out of the harvey weinstein allegations. i'm joined now by california democratic congresswoman jackie
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speier leading efforts to combat sexual harassment on capitol hill introduced the me too act, a bill that would require sexual harassment training for lawmakers and staff and reform the process for filing complaints. congresswoman, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, katie. >> i want to get your first reaction to the allegations against senator franken? >> well, they're regrettable and they are ones that need to be investigated. it doesn't matter when it happened, it matters that it did happen. >> he says he does not remember the rehearsal in the same way as leeann tweeden. he's apologized for that photo as well. do you think that that is enough? >> well, you know, as a woman who has been, you know, forcefully kissed and someone thrust his tongue into your mouth, that's not something you forget. and it's a violation. i think it needs to be
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investigated and i will leave it at that. >> there are a number of women on capitol hill, yourself included, that have talked about experiences they've had on capitol hill with lawmakers. is this going to open the doors for those women, including yourself, to name names? >> well, i believe that we need to create a workforce here that is free of sexual harassment. i've been stopped in the hallways of the capitol for the last few days from women who have said, i have a story to tell and that suggests to me that we have a serious problem. i think there's recognition now by the house and the senate that we need to address it and address it in a very formal and reform-minded way. >> senator franken says he's open to an investigation. if that investigation does
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conclude that he did things that were inappropriate, do you support him resigning? >> i think the senate will have to first investigate and then once those results are made public, i'll answer that question then. >> leeann tweeden, the l.a. radio anchor who made these allegations against the senator, said that she felt encouraged, not encouraged, but inspired to do this. she found the strength to do this because of an interview that you did on her radio show where you detailed your experience of somebody forcing their tongue down your throat. what do you think of -- what do you think about being a part of her ability to come forward? >> well, if i can help victims come forward, that i see as a positive step in trying to rid sexual harassment from the workplace. and it's -- you know, women are not play things and it's time
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for men to appreciate that they are their peers, they should be treated with respect and they are not sexual toys that they can just play with for their own pleasure. >> have you heard of anything inappropriate regarding senator franken in the past? >> i have not. >> getting into the politics of this, it's hard to ignore the politics of this. senator franken has an important vote in the senate for democrats, obviously. he's somebody who's on the judiciary committee, and he's pushed back pretty forcefully against jeff sessions and his testimony. are you concerned about losing that voice? >> that's really a decision that the senate will make in doing an ethics investigation. i think actions have consequences, and i believe we can't treat people differently who engage in behavior that is sexual harassing or precursors
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to sexual assault. >> it doesn't matter if they have an "r" or a "d" or "i" in front of their name? >> that's correct. >> if roy moore is elected, what do you think should happen? >> well, that's certainly up to the senate, but he has no right to serve in the senate of this country. >> congresswoman jackie speier, thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate your time. >> thank you, katie. we will have much more on senator al franken after the break and also keeping an eye on the news conference with alabama senate candidate roy moore. so far pastors have been speaking in his defense but we'll take it live if and when roy moore comes to the mic. we also have breaking news we're following out of new jersey. we told you today was a busy day. a mistrial has been declared in the bob menendez corruption case. will prosecutors take the senator back to court?
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we'll see. >> mixed reaction from republicans and democrats on the hill today to the allegations made against -- or allegation against senator al franken that he kissed and groped a woman in 2006. or at least -- yeah kissed and groped a woman in 2006. franken apologized. from capitol hill to alabama where right now senate candidate roy moore is attending a news conference, of pastors speaking out in his defense. nine women have now accused moore of sexual misconduct. moore has denied the allegations and threatened to sue. i'm joined by amber phillips and sam stein, msnbc contributor and politics editor at "the daily beast." guys good to see you. amber one of the instances described in your story that your colleagues broke was from gena richardson who met roy moore at the gadsden mall, asked her where she attended high school and then called her, got her out of her trigonometry class, she said hello, richardson recalls, and the male on the other side said gena, this is roy moore.
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i was like what. he said what are you doing? i said i'm in trig class. richardson says moore asked her out again on the call. a few days later after he asked her out at sears. she relented and agreed feeling both nervous and flattered. richardson's friend corroborated the story. we're now up to nine accusers on roy moore. >> yeah. we're now to nine accusers and up to at least six that have been verified at "the washington post" going back decades to con firm the accusers were in the place they said they were were, corroborate dates and names and keep going back to this point that a lot of the accusations, the six reported in "the washington post" are as close you can get to proof when you litigate sexual assault in the press. i mean, for the first story the -- one of the key women who first met moore outside a courthouse, our reporters went back 38 years to confirm that a specific custody hearing
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happened at that courthouse that would have placed this accuser and roy moore potentially together. i think that's why we're listening to a roy moore press conference with pastors defending his character or his lawyer tried to come out and question handwriting in a yearbook from another accuser, but we haven't seen any facts presented by the candidate himself to rebut these accusations. >> i found it interesting that the lawyer yesterday was talking about the yearbook but didn't mention anything about the 14-year-old girl who said that she was groped by judge moore. sam, the republican -- state republican party steering committee met last night. they did not decide to take roy moore off the ballot. what do you make of them standing by their man? >> well, i guess there's two ways to interpret this. one is that roy moore represents the most impassioned part of the party and to turn on him would
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be her rasy in alabama, to risk your own political future. that's partially why it seems like alabama republicans are sticking by moore even as national republicans aren't. the other way to interpret it it's simple political calculus at this juncture they don't have any other option but to go with roy moore. if you look at it that way it makes sense too. they can't take him off the ballot because some of the ballots are out there already, the absentee ones and they can try to do a write-in candidacy, you bye fur cate the vote and likely give it to the democrats and the third option the one that the national democrats have floated, if he wins an election try to kick him out of the senate. that's out of the alabama republican party's hands at that point. they're bind here. if you look at these numbers, the polling numbers, the base of the republican party believes him over all the accusers of all of the media and believe him over the national republican party and that's just where their mind is. >> the allegation against senator franken is extraordinarily different than the allegations against judge
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moore, but does that give judge moore any cover, the fact that a democratic senator has been accused as well? >> i don't think it gives him cover. both of these are really sickening instances of their own accord and their own details, right. it's not that roy moore benefits because al franken suffers. both of them suffer. and i think you also have to keep in mind there's two different theaters here. one is in a electoral theater down in alabama which is highly different than a senate ethics theater within washington, d.c. i think what it does do, if you're just looking at it at a strict political lens it puts democrats in a bind. a critical moment happening not just politically but from a legislative perspective how to handle the issue of sexual assault in the workplace and all industries really and not just a political issue, it's a societal one, and democrats are leading the charge. now that one of their own is ensnared how they handle it says
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how they prioritize this as an issue. from what i can tell early on it was a bit of a scramble at the beginning but does appear that the vast majority of the lawmakers are forcefully condemning franken for doing this, and calling for an ethics probe. i imagine that if more is uncovered you will see people call from his resignation. >> just a reminder we're waiting for moore to take the podium at the news sfrens. that was b role of senator franken. he wasn't just coming out to talk to reporters right there. amber, the president has not commented on this yet. he's been back in the country for more than a day. >> and specifically dodged reporter questions shouted at him yesterday. just like sam pointed out, democrats are in a bind with entrepreneur of the week, the preside -- wit franken and the president with roy moore. if he decides to give him the benefit of the doubt he will be on the opposite side of much of washington, basically everyone
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but steve bannon. if he decides that that roy moore needs to get out and i think if he weighs in on that he could have an effect on trying to get moore out. the president is very popular in alabama, a state he won by nearly 30 points. >> but remember he endorsed luther strange and luther stranges lost to roy moore in the primary. >> yeah. he wishy-washy endorsed him. we can definitely quibble with the fact that perhaps the president weighing in, that roy moore should get out, might not change what alabama voters decide. but back to your original question of why the president's been silent, i think if he says you know what, i do believe these roy moore accusers, you got to go, it opens him up to very serious questions about why his accusers, who have also many of them been on the record listed names and dates and details, are not to be believed, but roy moore's are. he's in a very difficult situation here. >> amber phillips hitting the nail on the head. thank you very much. sam stein, thank you as well. breaking news out of new jersey,
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where a federal judge declared a mistrial this afternoon in the bribery case against senator bob menendez. the jury informed the judge that they were still unable to reach a unanimous decision on the charges against the democrat and co-defendant, a wealthy doctor. both originally pleaded not guilty back in 2015 to bribery and fraud. moments ago, senator menendez spoke outside of the courthouse. >> i've made my share of mistakes, but my mistakes were never a crime. to those who left me, abandoned me in my darkest moment, i forgive you. to those who embraced me in my darkest moment, i love you. to those new jerseyans who gave me the benefit of the doubt, i thank you. to those who have a doubt, i'm going to work harder than ever before so that there is no doubt. >> the justice department issued this statement saying the department will carefully consider next steps in this
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important matter and report to the court at the appropriate time. and we just heard from senator mitch mcconnell who issued his own statement calling for an ethics investigation into menendez. with me in the newsroom the host of "the beat" and chief legal correspondent ari melber and -- you're not a legal correspondent, steve kornacki a political national correspondent steve kornacki. good to see you. ari, this mistrial was it surprising to you? >> this is a significant vindication of the defense strategy, which was basically to say, maybe they were gifts, maybe there were flights, maybe there was fancy lodging, but none of that ever met this higher bar the supreme court has set that there have to be also official acts. you can't just take, you have to give and give in a very official way. we don't know what all the jurors were thinking. mistrial means they couldn't decide. there is one leak from one juror who basically said they were close to acquitting on almost everything.
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>> it's not vindication yet. because they could still go back and retry him. >> all i said was the legal strategy is vindicated because a mistrial on these facts is good news for menendez. the larger issue which we've covered is put the supreme court precedent aside, a normal citizen and you see all these gifts flowing into a senator, who then seems to be trying to help the person who gave him the gifts, what's up with that? it seems wrong. but clearly they made inroads with some of the jurors. >> looks like a fish and smells like a fish, it's fishy. steve kornacki, political speaking, where does menendez go from here? can he go back to the senate and resume his duties without fear of political implications? >> oh, he's got some things to worry about right now. he will claim vindication and you heard that. are they going to try to retry him and a second trial. he's up for re-election, and if there is a second trial, that is happening simultaneous with his campaign. let's say this is where it ends, though, right now and ends with
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a hung jury. up for a re-election, he's running next year. he didn't get convicted that's great news, but this isn't clean in the sense he can say i was acquitted. he has jurors that -- some that came to a conclusion he was guilty of bribery. >> and mitch mcconnell saying -- >> guilty of something. >> right. it could have been the disclosure thing. >> and mitch mcconnell saying i want an ethics investigation. >> right. and so there's a couple things. first of all, question here is do democrats in new jersey stand by him? they have a primary in a few months. he got a major positive element in the last new minutes the incoming governor put out a statement saying he intends to support menendez if he wants to seek relex. the democratic governor of new jersey. the nur governor comes in and says that that's going to carry weight. that's significant for him. you have other democrats out there who are surveying the situation. if menendez looks weak, his approval last time measured down at 31%, if one of them gets in and it looks like the water is
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warm more might get in and could scramble the math. the senate ethics committee if they were to take this up and look at this, there is a precedent i have to think back to the year 2002, bob torricelli, a democrat running for re-election, embattled ethics, donor had given him favors and gifts allegedly, the prosecutor decided not to try a case, kicked to the ethics case, weeks before the election came out with a damming report, admonishment, he was forced to abandon his re-election campaign a month before election day. so when the ethics committee gets involved that becomes a wild card too. >> interesting when we can go back to the torch, the old days of new jersey, the big question where the law meets the politics right, is just because a jury says you don't belong in jail doesn't mean the voters think you belong in the senate. >> thank you. and steve, you are a walking political encyclopedia. >> well for new jersey. >> especially. gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. >> thanks. >> we appreciate your time. catch ari tonight at 6:00 p.m. eastern on the beat. i am hosting "meet the press
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daily" so i look forward to our ever awkward handoffs. >> ever awkward toss. what they call that awkward turtle. that's an awkward thing. >> awkward turts. see. we're moving on. coming up back on capitol hill the house officially passed its version of tax reform this afternoon but does it stand a chance in the senate? i accept i don't bike as far as i used to.
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this country has not re-written its tax code since 1986. the powers of the status quo in this town are so strong, yet 227 men and women of this congress broke through that today. that is powerful. we know that there are people who are really struggling in this country. we know that we are just coming through a decade of real economic anxiety, and we know that this is a nation that has so much more potential that is not yet been tapped. that's what this day is about. >> house speaker paul ryan is happy this afternoon. he declared victory after a big win for house republicans. the 227 to 205 vote to approve the first tax overhaul in decades came shortly after
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president trump visited capitol hill. he encouraged republicans to pass the $1.5 trillion legislation. it would lower corporate and individual tax rates and it would repeal the alternative minimum tax and eventually repeal the estate tax and would eliminate or reduce certain credits and deductions including student loan interest, home mortgage interest, medical expenses, and teacher expenses, making those things less affordable and at the top of the hour we're expecting a white house briefing. it will be the first since the president's return from his trip to asia. let's bring in our reporters to break it down, msnbc's garrett haake is on capitol hill and let's welcome nbc's jeff bennett at the white house. new on our team. jeff, good to see you. >> you as well. >> garrett, this is a big win for house republicans. is anybody commenting, though, on how well the president will do in this tax bill? he stands to save a billion dollars, just about a billion
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dollars under the house gop plan for him and his family. >> no, in fact, katie, republicans have a well-tuned deflection for that. they say when you ask them, whe think your constituents, our viewers, their constituents, care more about what they individually will save than what the president will save and then change the subject. a consistent answer to that question from republicans. since we last spoke i moved to the senate side. the action is here now. markup of the senate version of the bill continues off to my left even as we speak. house republicans were celebrating, but senate republicans have to put the bill on a diet if it's going to pass. they have to find ways to save money and keep it under that $1.5 trillion price tag. doing that by changing timing when a lot of the provisions take effect and most notably, putting the paappeal of the
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individual mandate, democrats pushing back as forcefully as he can to try to fight and slow this thing down and that's what we're seeing in the hearing that continues as we speak. >> any conversations with ron johnson, the republican who says, senator, who says he's not going to vote yes on the senate version of this tax bill? >> reporter: yes. senator johnson says he's been having conversations with the speaker of the house, with leadership in the senate. with senate finance committee members. notably, not on the committee and not officially part of the process right now. his complaints of sort of technical and wonky but boil down to the idea that small businesses aren't treated as favorably as big sort of classic what they callc core corporations. he wants to see that fixed. don't know how to get it done but johnson wants to get to yes and senate leadership very much wants him to get to yes. like the health care bill, no
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margin for error on getting anything passed on just republican votes in this senate. >> and the "wall street journal" was told this tax bill was offensive, quote/unquote, and benefits big corporations more than anyone else. jeff, the white house has got to be pleased that the president was able to it looks like, use his influence today in the house in order to get this over the line? >> reporter: that's certainly the case and republican leaders were leaving little to chance. the house was expected to pass the bill and one imagines the president wouldn't even have made the trip to the hill were that vote not already in the bag. i spoke with a senior white house official this morning who said the president is well aware of the drama unfolding on the senate side, as garrett points out, surrounding this bill. he's making calls to lawmakers directly. he knows it's a far more complicated process and there's a much smaller margin for error. the obvious parallel here in all of this, remember back in may when the house passed legislation to gut the affordable care act the
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president invite add group of house republicans to the rose garden for a celebration. no plans for a celebration this time around but the president we're told is getting involved in this very personally. >> don't celebrate until you actually have a victory. the white house released a statement, the president says he really hopes this gets done by the end of the year saying we're working together to allow hard-working middle class families to keep more of their money and empower companies and worker to dominate their global competition. jeff, last question to you. does the white house have a comment when presented with the fact independent analysis that the wealthy benefit so much more than anybody else in these tax plans? >> they were refuted on the merits. the white house makes the case that this plan is the thing to really boost the economy. to drive corporations, to drive corporate growth. to drive wage growth at large. they do not engage on those
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questions when we put them to you in the way you framed it and will get a chance to ask sarah huckabee sanders, white house press secretary about all this in about 10, 15 minutes. >> no doubt about that. quick question to the control room. do we have that gary cohn from ta meeting yesterday. asking businesses if they would invest more. >> if the tax reform bill goes through do you plan toin crease investment, your company the investment, capital investment. a show of harnds. tax hands. >> reporter: why weren't the other hands up? >> many hans hands in that room, business leaders, the one who would reinvest if they got a big tax cut not saying they would do
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that. jeff bennett. welcome to the team good to see you. garrett haake on capitol hill. guys, thank you very much. after the break, a very interesting one more thing. stay with us. a morning latte, some strategically placed needles, unicorns and sore muscles. with the help of two very special pint-sized helpers i took time out of my busy schedule to get in the small business saturday spirit and try some new businesses in my own brooklyn neighborhood. for more, watch "your business," weekend morning at 7:30 on msnbc. >> announcer: sponsored by american express. town, across . town, across . small businesses show their love to you. with some friendly advice, a genuine smile and a warm welcome they make your town... well, your town. that's why american express is proud to be the founding partner of small business saturday. a day where you get to return that love,
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one more thing before we go, update on yesterday's one more thing that is. told you about the painting dubbed the last da vinci went up for auction here in new york city. that work, salvatore mundi sold
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for $450 million and the auction itself was a masterpiece in suspense. >> we move to the leonardo da vinci. the masterpiece, kr50i69 tchris saver. do we have 130? 240 million in the bid. it ladies and gentlemen, selling at $240 million. $302 million is bid. $400 million. leonardo, salvatore mundi, $400 million is the bid and the piece is -- sold. [ cheers ] >> ali velshi, you always see these things in movies. they happen just the same in real life. quick reminder for our viewers. the painting originally was found in 2005 in louisiana. sold to collectors for $10,000. they expected last night it would go for $100 million. >> i talked to you about this 24 hours ago. >> one point of contention with
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that painting, though. i don't know if we have an image of it, but -- was it a leonardo da vinci? one of the arguments against it the orb. leonardo was a scientist. he was meticulous about figuring out how things worked. >> right. >> that orb, he would have known, would have inverted the image and refracted the light. doesn't do it in that painting. experts still say they do believe it is a leonardo da vinci and went for $450 million. >> unbelievable. see you. have a good afternoon. good afternoon to all of you. i'm ali velshi. getting right to it. minutes away from the first white house briefing in two weeks and plenty of questions need answers. one of the biggest what does the president think about roy moore and al franken. questions continue to be asked of him while on capitol hill making a last pitch to republicans ahead of their tax bill that

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