tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC October 14, 2019 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
for is expected to testify this week that the ambassador to ukraine who president trump fired, gordon sondland, news tonight is expected to testify this week that as far as he could tell, she was, and i quote, great at her job. and he knew of nothing wrong with her job performance, despite a fact that she was, of course, drop kicked by president trump and ordered to take the next flight home. as i said, jam-packed week. it's only monday. stay hydrated. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. nbc news is reporting some very, very important breaking news. u.s. ambassador to the european union gordon sunlen will tell congress on thursday that he
thought our ukrainian ambassador who donald trump got rid of, he's going to say that he thought she was great and that he has nothing negative to say about her performance as ambassador to ukraine, despite her removal from that job by president trump. a person with knowledge of sunlen's testimony is telling nbc news tonight that she was an able and professional diplomat and that he had absolutely no issues with her whatsoever. that's a big piece of breaking news from nbc news tonight. and there's another also from nbc news. correspondence between fiona hill's lawyers and white house deputy counsel obtained by nbc news show that the white house counsel tried to limit fiona hill's testimony today in her closed-door deposition with the congressional impeachment investigation by raising the issue of the executive
privilege. they tried to impose that on her. she, of course, is a former national security council adviser to president trump on russia issues primarily. the white house did not try to block her from testifying, but according to the correspondence, the white house told fiona hill's lawyers that there were areas where she could -- that where she could not possibly testify or that would fall under executive privilege. they said that those areas were direct communications with the president. diplomatic communications. meetings with other heads of states. staffing. presidential phone calls. foreign heads of state. now, her lawyers immediately wrote back to the white house on sunday, yesterday, day before the testimony, and said they did not believe the white house legal reasoning and they said some of the information that has already come into the public sphere can no longer be considered privilege. and hill's lawyers always made the legal argument that is correct that executive privilege disappears when there is reason
to believe there was government misconduct. hill's lawyers asked the white house to add any comments they wanted to make to that. but the white house lawyers said absolutely nothing apparently that actually did inhibit hill's testimony today. there have been no reports of any of the testimony delivered to the impeachment committees about donald trump's dealings with ukraine that are in any way favorable to donald trump. no one's coming out of those depositions saying, here's all the favorable things said for donald trump in those -- in those under oath depositions. every new witness appears to be adding more corroboration for the whistle-blower's complaint that started this investigation. that whistle-blower complaint said that the president was trying to seek help from ukraine to investigate joe biden. this is not the way trump
followers imagine donald trump taking on joe biden. they think donald trump is tough enough to fight face to face. to be a trump voter, supporter is to be to varying degrees a fantasist. some businessmen supporting donald trump might like to live with the fantasy that they just vote to support his giant corporate tax cuts and not his racism, not his vulgar aity. not his rank ignorance. some trump supporters live in a world of complete fantasy about donald trump himself. the fantasy that somehow donald trump will still get mexico to pay for the wall. the fantasy that there will be a wall to pay for. the fantasy that donald trump is smarter than anyone else in politics. the fantasy that donald trump is a tough guy. even though he grew up a spoiled rich kid. the fantasy that donald trump is brave even though he got repeated draft deferments to avoid the war of his era.
not once since then ever exhibited a single moment of bravery of any kind in his life. still, the trump fantacists see him as tough and brave and even thin and energetic as they do in this video that was shown at a trump campaign event at a trump property in florida. that's about the only place where people would show this video publicly. we aren't showing the video, and i noticed today that cnn hasn't been showing the video, because in this video, this fantasy version of donald trump shoots and kills someone from cnbc, someone from cnn, someone from bbc news, along with many other murder victims from many other news organizations. the fantasy trump character shoots and kills congressman joe kennedy, whose grandfather was shot and killed while campaigning for president, and whose great uncle, president john f. kennedy, was shot and
killed, assassinated. in the video, the fantasy trump kills more people than you can count, including rosie o'donnell, congresswoman maxine waters, hillary clinton, bill clinton, and, of course, of course, the fantasy trump completes what is perhaps the most rewarding of the fantasies in this video for trump fantacists by breaking president barack obama's neck and killing him. many claim they knew nothing about this video, including donald trump jr., who was at the event where the video was shown. president trump has through a white house spokesperson condemned the video after claiming he has not seen the video. what are the chances donald trump has not seen that video? that is code for his followers to understand that he doesn't really condemn the video. when he's telling them he condemns the video without seeing it, he's telling them this is a political thing i need to say about the video, and i hope you watch and think of me this way, especially the thin part. fantasy. so far that is all donald trump
has to offer in his defense in the impeachment investigation, and the fantasy is crumbling. donald trump is completely unqualified ambassador to the european union who purchased his ambassadorship through a million-dollar contribution to the trump inauguration has been subpoenaed to testify to the impeachment investigation on thursday. and all indications are, as nbc news is reporting tonight, that he will finally testify by the state department last week. the "washington post" reported over the weekend what to expect in gordon sondland's testimony about the now famous text of is, which was a replay to an even more famous text from acting ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor, whose texts said, i think it's curious to hold texts from a political campaign. we now know that somewhere in those four hours, donald trump didn't know what to say in response to bill taylor's text.
that gordon sondland finally texted back according to "the washington post." what he texted back is what donald trump told him to say. bill, i believe you are incorrect about president trump's intentions. the president has been crystal clear. no quid pro quos of any kind. the "washington post" reports someone plans to tell lawmakers he has no knowledge of whether the president was telling him the truth at that moment. it's only true that the president said it, not that it was the truth. leading off our discussion tonight, democratic congressman harley root of california. he's a member of the house oversight committee and he was present today for all 11 hours of fiona hill's deposition. also join us, evelyn farkas, secretary of defense in the obama administration.
she's msnbc national security analyst. and national political reporter josh is the reporter that broke the news tonight we began this discussion with. and josh, because of that breaking news you revealed to us at the beginning of this hour, these indications are that ambassador sondland's testimony is not going to be the kind of testimony that donald trump anyway wants to hear. >> it's certainly going to be a different narrative than we've been hearing from trump and the white house. and what sondland plans to say, particularly on marie yavonovitch, the ambassador that president trump recalled. he plans to say that he has only good things to say about her. that he thought she was an able, professional diplomat, had no reason to doubt her qualififications for the job. let's take stock in this. we now have gordon sondland to testify. fiona hill also had good things
to say about yavonovitch and her performance. pulled out, and that will raise further questions by democrats as to why she was removed, apparently as part of this plot by rudy giuliani to get rid of her because he thought that she was blocking what he and the president were trying to do in ukraine. >> and josh, your reporting on the white house letters to hill prior to her testimony, telling her about executive privilege, all these things. one thing i noticed in your reporting that i read was that the white house lawyers tried to say to her lawyers, this is not a real impeachment inquiry. >> yeah, it echoes some of what was in that letter that the white house lawyer sent to nancy pelosi just about a week ago when they were saying they're not going to comply with this impeachment inquiry. this was -- this came as there was a flurry of negotiations just in the last couple of days
leading up to this testimony today between the white house lawyers and fiona hill's lawyers about what exactly she could say. the white house didn't go as far as to exert executive privilege and say, we don't think she can testify at all. that had been a big question. but they did lay out several areas where they said, we think this is covered by executive privilege, communications with the president, diplomatic conversations. we think she should not be able to talk about these things. fiona hill's lawyers pushing back and saying, look, there is an implication here that there is wrongdoing by the government and executive privilege doesn't apply in that instance. and basically where things ended up as they headed into this very lengthy testimony today was with the white house lawyers reminding fiona hill and her lawyers, we advise you, do not talk about anything out of school, anything that could be classified or that we consider to be covered by executive privilege. >> congressman rouda, was it
your sense that fiona hill had any reluctance about answering any of your questions based on those kinds of instructions from the white house? >> no, i think she did an absolutely remarkable job. she was completely nonpartisan, apolitical, an uncanny ability to recall facts and meetings. she really handled herself better than any person i've seen in a deposition. a true patriot and we should all be very proud of her testimony. >> what would you say she added to your understanding of this case at this point? >> it's a good question. i'm not going to go into the specifics, but i will tell you for me personally that her testimony today makes me further believe that we need to continue this investigation, because as we peel the layers of this onion back one layer at a time, we're finding more and more information and evidence that demands further investigation
for the american public. >> congressman, the closed-door nature of the depositions has been criticized by some republicans. my understanding is this is things that take place that you don't want these witnesses to be publicly sharing information through their testimony that other witnesses might then be affected by or adopt or change their stories to fit it. but does that mean at some point we will see all of fine yeah hill's testimony? or will she then be brought into a public hearing to do it again publicly? >> lawrence, you're spot on. that's exactly the point. we want to make sure that each of these witnesses that come through and testify, that they're able to do that based on their knowledge and understanding without being tainted, so to speak, by previous testimony. so that's why we're going to do each one systemically in this process.
as to whether the testimony that was provided today, as well as future and past witnesses, whether that's going to be released in its entirety or partial parts thereof will be determined by chairman schiff and the other chairmen of the committee. but i would suffice it to say once we get through this process a little bit further, you will start to see some of this evidence coming out of the general public. >> everybody >> evelyn farkas, i've never -- harley rouda is the second person to come out of that deposition room to say this about fiona hill. the best deposition i've ever heard. i've never known anyone to say that about a witness in any hearing situation before. >> yeah, i've known dr. fiona hill for many years now. she's incredibly smart. i said the doctor thing to give her credentials a little bit. she knows her constitution.
she probably picked some good lawyers. but she also knows russia inside out. she knows ukraine inside out. she knows how things are supposed to function because she's worked for multiple administrations. so she can describe when things don't function properly. from the media account, i think we know she was quite angered by the administration that giuliani was running. it sounded like she was advocating for ambassador yavonovitch behind the scenes. sondland, i think, is behind the cabal, if you will. i think they were trying to have something. i think he's going to tap dance to try not to implicate himself. we'll see if he can. he can't get away with lying because the other two guys are being deposed by the southern district by the fbi right now. by attorneys in the fbi.
>> evelyn, there is some feeling that the dam was breaking and witnesses they were trying to block are now getting around those blocks, getting through those blocks and getting to testify. as someone who has worked inside app administration like this, you probably have a sense of what it's like for the other people who are still either inside this administration or who have left this administration, who are watching this happen, who might also have something to say themselves. does this become contiguous, this kind of willingness to step forward directly to the committee and testify? >> yes, lawrence, and i think in a good way because my understanding is that morale is really low, not just at the state department but at the defense department. my successor once removed the woman in the job right now. she's going to be deposed. i can well imagine for a lot of these people it's a relief to go in there and tell an oversight
body that has equal power with the executive branch what's going on. many civil servants, most of them i think are truly disturbed by all of this. they'd like to go back to business as usual. the only branch of government that can force business as usual in this current situation looks like congress. >> congressman rouda, it does seem that gordon sondland can afford the highest priced criminal defense lawyers in town to tell him exactly where his most difficult liabilities might be here in this testimony. according to josh lederman's reporting tonight, it seems that he's steering away from those. he is going to be coming down solidly on the side of the ambassador who donald trump wanted to get rid of. he'll be in a direct conflict with donald trump over that because we know in the phone call transcript that's even in there that donald trump going after the ambassador. we know from his own words that donald trump was extremely negative about this ambassador. and it sounds like he hasn't
gotten any support on that point in the testimony you've heard so far? is that correct? >> well, the key is come in and tell the truth. and put country in front of party. and country in front of president. and i think if he does that he'll be fine. and i'm hopeful he'll do that. based on the reports we're seeing, we're getting indications that he is prepared to do so, and i think if he goes that direction the country will be very glad he did. >> congressman harley rouda, evelyn farkas, josh lederman, thanks for starting us off. when we come back, more breaking news tonight. we have new details about the reported criminal investigation into rudy giuliani. they are investigating his financial records. the former -- the federal prosecutor's office that rudy giuliani used to run is now studying his financial records. that's next. ords that's next.
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congressman denny heck if it feels like the dam is breaking. >> it feels like the dam's breaking, right, chris? i thought the fact that mr. mckinley agreed to come to us, i believe it's the day after tomorrow, was very significant. he's a distinguished career diplomat who has an incredible depth of understanding about how diplomacy should work. he's had some of the most significant diplomatic postings within the state department. i think we're going to learn a lot from him. then again, i think we're learning a lot from each and every one. >> joining us now is joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst. sam stein, politics editor of the daily beast and msnbc political analyst. sam, that feeling of the dam breaking. we were talking about michael -- mike mckinley, who was one of pompeo's senior advisers. he quit. he just resigned from the state department last week.
it wasn't clear whether that was a principled resignation of some kind, a protest resignation, but here he is very quickly agreeing to go under oath to the investigating committees. >> yeah, and the sense you get from talking to people on the hill is that there's a number of people who are in the administration who may not be trump loyalists, per se, who recognize where this story is going and how it's unfolding and don't want to be a part of it, or at least want to get their side out. i think part of this is a bit of savvy on how the impeachment investigators have handled this. you mentioned this in your last block, but not releasing the transcripts after the interviews are done so that potential witnesses don't know exactly what to say would compel someone to come forward to make sure that they get their story out there first, but i also think a lot of this is sort of revealing the "house of cards" element of the trump administration. a lot of the strength comes from the idea that he can punish someone for stepping out of line. once someone steps out of line
and isn't punished, it's an invitation to do the same thing. that comes in the form of testifying and having the president not come after you. what i was alluding to there is that when mitt romney spoke out initially about how troubled he was by the phone call, trump did hit him back pretty hard, but it wasn't to the degree that you would normally expect trump to go after a republican. i think that's invited other republicans to stick their necks out a little bit more than usual. a lot of this is unraveling and i think the administration and the president himself are getting spooked by it all. >> joyce, i want to get your reading of what we're learning now tonight about the investigation of rudy giuliani. they're looking at his bank records. they're looking at financial records. they've been doing this for months now. >> it's very clear after what we're learning tonight that rudy giuliani isn't just an incidental player, that he's someone that prosecutors are taking a hard look at as at
least a subject of this investigation. possibly a target. here's what it means for prosecutors to be looking at his bank records. it means that they're trying to figure out who's paying rudy giuliani or who's paying for his travel? and that may hold very important elements of this case. and as you point out with the dam breaking, i sort of think what we're seeing on capitol hill comes together with rudy giuliani's exposure. this is more like "revenge of the nerds" than just an ordinary dam breaking. it's hardworking government employees who kept their heads down, they did their jobs and suddenly we're finding out the nerds look like superheroes with capes. it may ultimately be their evidence that brings this together either on capitol hill or in a prosecution. >> when i hear "revenge of the nerds," i think sam stein. sam, on giuliani we've gone from michael cohen, you know, trump lawyer now in prison, rudy
giuliani, trump lawyer, trump's so-called lawyer now under federal investigation. >> right. well, first of all, i'm going to ignore the reference to me as a nerd, okay? i'm just going to skip by that. there is -- yeah, rudy giuliani is not in an enviable position right now. i think all roads are leading to him. it's an open question in republican circles about whether trump cuts bait at some point in time and throws him under the bus. there was an -- trump said you'd have to ask rudy about his involvement here. but, you know, it seems like the writing is on the wall here. the question is, what does rudy do in this moment? does he talk to congress about what his involvement was in ukraine? we're getting reports tonight that ambassador sondland's going to testify that a major ukraine decision whether the president could meet with trump had to be cleared by rudy. will rudy testify to this stuff or will he wait for a lifeline
from senator lindsey graham, who is i'm not mistaken, last week hinted he would invite rudy to his committee in the senate controlled by republicans to testify about all of this in his escapades in ukraine. when i last talked to rudy about a week ago, he said basically he had no plans to testify before adam schiff's committee. he did not return my comment about lindsey graham's committee. i'm curious if he engages and if these leaks coming out about sondland and others throwing him under the bus compels him to -- >> because this is rudy giuliani we're not sure he has. he doesn't seem to do anything that is rational. but if he has, that lawyer is telling him don't you dare go and testify to the senate -- >> right. >> judiciary committee while you're under investigation by the fbi. >> donald trump used to love to talk about perjury traps. that was his excuse ultimately
for not sitting for an interview with bob mueller. if rudy giuliani walks in front of this committee, it seems almost a sad but foregone conclusion that he'll put himself in a perjury box, that he'll run into trouble. sometimes it looks like he doesn't even know what the truth is. his stories shift so much over time. so, you know, they say the lawyer -- the client that's his own lawyer -- i'm going to now completely mess up that statement, but you probably know it better than i do. but it's essentially that he's of -- you're a fool if you act like your own lawyer once you become the client. and that, you know, i think would be a terrible mistake for rudy giuliani here. he certainly needs a lawyer. he certainly has exposure. there is an intriguing possibility here, and we've seen this before in trump world with manafort. we've been here with michael cohen. will rudy giuliani be the person, the former u.s. attorney, who looks at the prospect if he is ultimately indicted of spending a number of
years, maybe the rest of his life in prison, and finally decides that donald trump isn't worth it? and that will require a good lawyer to get him across that threshold. >> joyce vance, sam stein, thank you both for joining us tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. >> really appreciate it. thank you. when we come back, ambassador wendy sherman, former undersecretary of state will join us to explain the death and destruction that donald trump has caused by abandoning our allies, the kurds. great friends. you just saved a bunch of money by switching your boat insurance to geico. it was easy. folks, can it get any better than this? is that what i think it is? that is an armada of tiny sushi boats. awesome! i forgot to pack lunch. you had one job... chopsticks wasabi and soy! comin' in a little hot. it only gets better when you switch and save with geico.
catastrophic. that's what mitch mcconnell is calling what donald trump has done in syria after donald trump withdrew a small group of military personnel from northern syria which then allowed turkey to invade the area and kill as many of our kurdish allies there as possible, which is yet another trump decision that works perfectly for vladimir putin. the kurds, who u.s. forces were working with and protecting in that region, now need protected from someone after being abandoned by donald trump and so they are turning to vladimir putin, just as russia and everyone involved in this conflict knew that they would.
donald trump is now turning to a very weak package of sanctions aimed at just individuals within the turkish government, like the turkish defense minister but not turkish president erdogan who got exactly what he wanted from donald trump in their last phone call before turkey embarked on its attack on the kurds. democrats and republicans in congress are now working on actions that they can take that they hope can reverse the president's decision. the united nations secretary general said in a statement today that the turkish attacks in syria have resulted in many casualties and displaced at least 160,000 civilians. today "the new york times" reports that the foreign ministers of 28 european union member states agreed to stop selling arms to turkey in an unprecedented step toward a fellow nato member. turkey's attack has forced the kurds to abandon some of the
camps where they were keeping isis fighters and their supporters in custody. nbc reports that the kurdish-led syrian democratic forces, sdf and syrian observatory for human rights said sunday that close to 800 members of a camp holding the families of isis fighters had escaped after turkish shelling. all of this is on donald trump. all of this happened because donald trump decided to allow it to happen and no one knows why. the president of the united states has not explained his decision to the american people. he has not explained it to anyone in congress. donald trump abandoned american allies and has left them to die, and no one knows why. one element of this story that links it with many other decisions donald trump has made as president is that it is very good for vladimir putin. after this break i'll ask former undersecretary of state, wendy
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i am concerned that our president who made an bankrupt decision without close consultation with allies and against the advice of a number of senior military and diplomatic advisers is creating a chapter here where the only real winner is russia. >> joining our discussion now is ambassador wendy sherman. she is former undersecretary of state in the obama administration. she's now msnbc global affairs contributor. ambassador sherman, i want to get your reaction to actually something donald trump himself said, which is he's absolutely fine with the kurds becoming an ally of russia. he said anyone who wants to assist syria in protecting the kurds is good with me whether it is russia, china or napoleon bonaparte. i hope they all do great. we are 7,000 miles away, excl m
exclamation point. yes, the president of the united states actually did say that. >> i think it's extraordinary, but i think we all get surprised every single day. the president once again, lawrence, is both the arsonist and now he wants to be the fireman. i think he did this again because he wants to put russia in charge for a reason we all still don't understand. i think he did it on the moment he did it because he wanted to take attention away from impeachment. but because he's so impulsive, he didn't stop to think about the consequences. he didn't stop to think that this might cross the line for some of his closest allies in congress. lindsey graham came out strongly but now he sort of roped him back in in common cause to try to solve a problem that didn't even need to exist. >> and what about institutional resistance to this? there have been times in our history when we've seen the resignation on principle.
it happened actually in the clinton administration over domestic policy. would this be a moment for a secretary of state, for an undersecretary of state, for a secretary of defense to resign, to stand up and just resign? >> well, i think it would be a moment except that i think secretary pompeo is all in with the president of the united states. i think secretary esper, the secretary of defense, is brand new and doesn't really know how to get his hands around any of this. and most of the other senior officials in our government are acting officials with no authority. the president says that it is the deep state who is really holding him back from doing the things that he knows needs to be done but is, in fact, the patriots, the civil servants who service every day who are the ones who are bringing out the truth. so we have bill taylor, the acting ambassador in ukraine. we have marie yavonovitch masha, who has come out and spoken.
and fiona hill today and mike mckinley who is just a superb ambassador. all of these people are coming forward to really tell the truth to the american public. and it's quite wonderful, i think, that it is public servants who really serve the constitution and serve all of us who are going to show the president what the truth really is and what the constitution is really about. >> the latest reporting from the "new york times" indicates that the 1,000 troops that we have there that the president moved are now trapped. they don't have an actual way out since turkey has cut off the roads and the exit routes that they might use, and so now there is the question of will there be an airlift? how will we get the u.s. troops out? >> this is reminiscent, you'll know this. we haven't had to get troops out like this since the fall of saigon. this is going to be very, very difficult. it is one of the many, many down
sides of the impulsive, the dangerous impulsivity of the president. we also have 50 tactical weapons that are at incirlik air base in turkey. turkey is, in essence, holding our tactical weapons hostage to get a cease-fire to stop the death of the kurds. the president has basically handed the country back over to assad, to putin and to iran and to isis. and meanwhile, turkey is going to use those tactical nuclear weapons and millions of refugees as leverage to make sure it can hold on to a piece of syria. >> i guess we'll continue to be asking this question for a long time, but why does he want to do these things for vladimir putin? >> this is the more than $64 million question. maybe this is the $10 billion question if that's what donald
trump is really worth, though i doubt it. clearly he has business interests. clearly putin has something on donald trump. but the other thing, and i hate to say this, is donald trump his attorney general wibble and secretary pompeo who just gave a speech that until it got pulled down was headlined on the website being a good christian on a government website. i'm all for christianity and christian values, but totally inappropriate for a secretary of state. so the president of the united states likes strong men. he wants to be vladimir putin. and clearly vladimir putin has something on donald trump. >> ambassador wendy sherman, thank you very much for joining
us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. and when we come back, we have breaking news from fort worth tonight. the police officer who shot and killed 28-year-old woman in her own home while she was playing video games with her 8-year-old nephew. that police officer has tonight been arrested and charged with murder. we'll have more on these late developments next. that i can get.e breaks at liberty butchemel... cut. liberty mu... line? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ colon cancer screening for people 50 and older at average risk. honey, have you seen my glasses?
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breaking news. aaron dean, a police officer who shot and killed 28-year-old atatiana jefferson in her home in fort worth, texas, was arrested tonight and charged with murder. at 2:25 a.m. on sunday morning, a resident of fort worth, texas, called a non-emergency police hotline after noticing that his neighbor's door had been left open. within minutes of that call, the man's neighbor, 28-year-old atatiana jefferson, was shot and killed in her own home by officer aaron dean. atatiana jefferson was playing video games at the time with her 8-year-old nephew. when officer dean entered her yard through an open gate, approached the window of her home, and without identifying himself as a police officer, shouted "put your hands up, show me your hands" before then firing a single shot less than two seconds later. that shot killed atatiana
jefferson right in front of her 8-year-old nephew. the officer's body camera footage capturing the incident was released by the fort worth police department. we are going to show you a portion of that video now, but before we do, we must warn you that you may find some of this video very disturbing. you won't see the actual shooting on should video, though. but here is that body cam video. >> put your hands up. show me your hands! >> it was a fast-moving day of breaking news in this case ending in the arrest of officer dean. earlier in the day, the police chief said that he intended to
fire officer dean, but the officer resigned before the department could take any action. it is an american way of death, an unarmed black person committing no crime shot and killed by police. but we have never before seen a case where the unarmed black person is a woman playing video games with her 8-year-old nephew in her own home. mark claxton has seen a lot, but he's never seen a case exactly like this one. mark claxton is a former new york city police detective. he is now the director of the black law enforcement alliance. mark claxton will join us after this break. ories from amazing people. makes me wanna be better. to connect with stories that i'm listening to- that's inspiration. with audible originals, there's something for almost every taste in there. everything you ever wanted to hear. our ability to empathize through these stories can be transformational. it's my own thing that i can do for me.
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darius carr serves in the military stationed in san diego. he rushed to fort worth as soon as i heard that a fort worth police officer had shot and killed his sister in her own home while she was playing video games with her 8-year-old nephew. here's darius carr today before that officer was arrested and charged with murder. >> my name is darius carr. i am currently stationed in san diego. i served my country for the last 12 years. in that time, i've been trained and taught there are pre-planned responses to everything you do. everything you're trained about, there's a way to do things. and when you don't do it the way you've been trained or you've
been taught, you have to answer for that. this man murdered someone. he should be arrested. >> joining us now is marq claxton, a retired nypd police detective and the director of the black law enforcement alliance. marq, i can't say it's always something like this that brings you back to the show to discuss this with your expertise. but what darius carr just said seems to be the important note of the day. this was a rookie cop, apparently less than two years' experience on the force. and you can see in that video he's not following what he was trained to do in a situation like that. >> yeah, yeah. and regardless of even the response, let me just say, lawrence, the response to this incident, to this tragedy, to this killing has been somewhat unusual. there's been a significant shift in responding to these type of incidents from government -- administrative government managers, from the mayor, from
the police department, et cetera. however, as the brother points out, that until we deal with the issue of national clear, professional standards and holding your professionals accountable and responsible for adhering to those standards, you can't possibly hope to avoid these type of tragedies. you must also begin to deal realistically and honestly with the relationship between law enforcement and race. there is a dynamic that is involved here that is irrefutable, that's unavoidable, and that pops its head up every time we have some of these incidents that occur throughout the nation. >> marq, is that dynamic, the racial dynamic in policing, addressed in training? >> there is minimal address of the racial dynamic in training. more recently, agencies have gone to dealing with or attempting to deal with what
they call implicit bias training. however, baked into law enforcement strategies across this nation are race-based, race-driven initiatives that prove to increase the interactions between black and brown communities and police agencies. it's baked into the enforcement strategies in many agencies across this nation. you look, for example, at a dynamic that existed in new york city with stop and frisk, and exists in many other large cities with stop and frisk policies that they have. many of these enforcement strategies are race-based. when you add into it, you know, implicit, explicit bias into race-based enforcement, it is a recipe for disaster and tragedy. and time and time again, i've come here, and we have had discussions about these type of incidents. they are absolutely avoidable, and it's necessary for us to
address the role that race plays in law enforcement. >> marq claxton gets the last word tonight. marq, thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. >> that is tonight's last word. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. tonight, new reporting that says some of this nation's most powerful prosecutors are collecting documents on a man who was once among the nation's most powerful prosecutors. now he happens to be rudy giuliani. plus another witness, another former insider tells congress over another marathon session what she knows and what she saw from inside the west wing regarding giuliani's shadow foreign policy in ukraine. also tonight, there's a new attempt to fix the brutal turkish military campaign, an attempt to cover the american forces who have been ordered to retreat. all of it of course the result of one trump phone call and the green light it conveyed as "the 11th h