tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC October 18, 2019 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
are you in good hands? that's going to do it for us tonight. presumably i'll be up all night a belated congratulations on the book. >> it's been a surprise thing. >> really? everything you do, you knock it out of the park. >> a wrote the book, it was going to be a niche interest. >> people are hungry to learn, they're hungry for more knowledge and hungry for something outside of the regular news cycle. >> i'm katy tur, in for lawrence
o'donnell. michael moore will talk about the path forward and, quote, any capacity trump ever had to think claire have evaporated. he'll join us with his view on the president's inability to change. and the sharp criticism for the president's syria policy. turkey gets everything it wants while the cries grets what, at a time when donald trump need support more than ever.
52% now approve of removing trump from office. backing for trump's impeachment has far surpassed public support for the impeachment of president bill clinton. it's now edging toward territory not seen since the 1970s. you'd think that the president would do everything in his power, arguably his last line of defense in check but time and again this administration has pushed the gop to the break. the president used his public office to direct a huge contract
to himself, "the washington post" says. >> mull veiny also admitted the trump administration withheld foreign aid to ukraine because it paend the investigate that somehow was hockey was not involved in the hacking in 201. and then trump replaces america first with me first writing ask yourself to gains at the g-7 being held at trump's golf resort? who gains from the military incurse into nern syria? it's not america. it seems some republicans are asking these same questions. >> you don't hold up foreign aid
that we had previously appropriated that you had former formerly. you could call it a i don't understand why nft. >> when america leaves, we create a vacuum. when we create a vacuum, we create chaos. that's what we're seeing right now. >> trump mate have some laurel policies in washington. mcmcconnell slams the trump administration's decision to withdraw from syria calling it a
tra steakic backgrounds. can we now ask how much longer until the entire damn breaks. >> leading off are peter wenner. he was an adviser to the past throw republican presidents and ruth marcus, also an msnbc contributor pros at this time. the history impeachment. that was before the g-7 came into the plane. do you have so this confluence of controversies that might be the president's damn? his call in congress? >> i want to say yes but i think for right now the answer is no.
the republican lawmakers are going to stick with trump. your crew had a me-first approach to trump, that tru, harr republican primary voters turn against trump, it's going to be very, very dangerous, moe matter what they might nearly -- no matter how much they complain about that in private, they're if not going to break about that in trouble. >> i wonder what sort of precedent they're sending, peter, about what they will accept going forward. mitch mcconnell in "the washington post" had a scathing
on side against it if the and embolden our animals fwlnchts i if for in of being willing to criticize trump on particular policies, like on surya. that still is different than the issue of impeachment. >> well, what is the difference there between them being willing to criticize him on policy and unwilling to criticize him in asking a foreign fwft to interfere in our elections? >> i think in their mind the syria issue does not fall into the the tribalist ic issue.
so republicans like mcconnell and others feel like they've got some latitude to criticism trump now. that i ste very issue. purr. people thought it was high pesh olie at the time. i'm afraid it's closer to the truth than we would like to think. he's pushing and pushing and pushing pu the ununowe curb owely frn here's john kasich on
cnn, obviously not a fan of the president, start sfushts and you were to ask me do i think impeachment should move forward and go for a full examination and i don't say it lightly. this is extremely gift in the what needs to be seen for republicans to have cover to break from the press, from pa did. and i just want to make clear i'm not saying that these republican members are anything,
frnl but it's curious that skmurks but none of his former colleagues in that body have come out and said the same thing, not a sing single of? >> this step sfd ♪ and telling congress what they know on the ukraine issue. we're on day 25 of the impeachment inquiry and these numbers are going up. peter, if sfurks. here's what i would say. the current situation you're not going to get two-thirds in the senate to impeach him, but
politics isn't static, just like life isn't static. the which i think is going to be much worse because you have rudy yul jarnlt, is, look i like john kasich. i think person earn who is snrnl and he's spoken out against trump several times now and on several issues. i think he is an important figure to watch. me if you've been sfufrm-- someo
is psychologically unwell. i think in the beginning at the now the maybe he'll grow in office and maybe mcconnell could bible to do psh, if and tru as ffrmts is the worst of trump up till nowso this is an open question. >> if you thought funnel. peter, thank you very much. and joining us is democratic senator gar ry frnl and he is te lead supporter of the.
it doesn't seem to have any home pap snut nol it's important to push this going forward the conflict of interest you have when you have government monies going back to a high federal official. it officer. we have seen numerous occasions where serious questions have been aware. we tn sfrusht but now an incredibly outrageous rudy giuliani, not only medical taxpayer money and taxpayers don't want to see tr president
clinton furk, if that -- >> msh fwan is such an important stay to the presidency. he won by a very nar ohmagin. snufrt there's no way in heck i'm going to vote for him again in 2020. >> i'm seeing more of that, especially the last couple weeks. you're definitely starting to see that change. the actions in northern syria were particularly profound with being pokes that i talked to. they said we are. friend with the united states to keep us safe and for to us turn our backs on them, that just doesn't fit with the american values, that we are friends that you can trust. when they see the president act that way, people are having a harder time justifying that.
>> what are they saying about this trumg many dora situation, the president lining his own pockets directly that seems to it be a violation of the emoluments clause. in 2017 his tax turn said the president is not going to ben if the at all -- benefit at all and as time has gone on, it seems the wall hat gotten smaller and smaller. >> certainly the value of the property increases. he understands the public relations value, he can promote his brand. he will profit and there is no question about that. >> and he is the one who suggested trump dral.
we want to find out exactly what process went through. it sound as if the president just mentioned it to his starve and they ran with it. in order to spend taxpayer money, we want to make sure there's a process, that the property met the security requirements. >> senator gary peters, thank you very much. we appreciate your time. >> coming up, tony schwarts who go to observe president trump up close when he wrote "the art of the deal." he likens donald trump as a drowning man. >> and also this photo, which donald trump originally shared because he thought it made him lo look good. tony schwartz joins us next. tony schwartz joins us next.
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and a half years ago when he was elected. it's hard to make the case he's changed all that much. one of the men who knew him best, tony schwartz, has a new piece in "the washington post" arguing that trump cannot change no matter what the consequences are. impeachment might have made him worse. schwartz writes, "the negative qualities are often those we find most intolerable we see in ourselves. throughout his adult life, he viewed the world as a dark, dangerous place, teeming with enemies out to get him. this escalated exponential. the threat he imagines is not just to his fragile sense of self but realistically to his future as president. any capacity trump ever had to think clearly or calmly has evaporated. now like a drowning man, all that matters to him is survival no matter how much collateral damage his behavior's caused."
joining us now here on set is tony schwartz. tony, it's really good to see. >> you likewise. >> so donald trump, 2018, is it the same man you knew? >> in the fundamental ways, yes. he actually has changed and he's gotten worse, i mean, considerably worse. he was a nonideological guy. he was purely out for himself and not thinking about the wider world that much. and he was riding high. in the '80s just before it all fell apart, so he wasn't under stress. and we are two different people. we're the person we are when we're being run by our prefrontal cortex and under stress we're run by a much more primitive part of our brain.
>> back then you could say he had money to lose but there was always money to fall back on. now he has the presidency, a place that maybe he thought deep down he would get to but nobody expected him to. how is that affecting the judgment you once knew so well? >> it's physiological first. when you are under stress, you move into this fight or flight state and your prefrontal cortex, your thinking mind shuts down and you become reactive and impulsive. you're about your survival. so you don't think well. trump starts off as you know, not thinking well, he's not reflective, not introspective. he doesn't read and doesn't think things through. now you have a situation in which this is vastly more intense for him, and i think he is in pure reactive mode. >> say impeachment passes and maybe he gets impeached and he doesn't get thrown out and the senate doesn't vote to remove him from office. but he goes along in the last year of his presidency and the polls look terrible for him in the lead-up to 2020 much in the way they did in the lead-up to 2016. what sort of behavior should we expect then? >> i think this is a man who
grew up in an incredibly wealthy family but felt put upon since he was a young kid. he never felt more put upon than he does right now. he genuinely feels he's a victim. whichever way this goes, even if he is ultimately not found, you know, not convicted, he will be one angry man all the way through to november. >> let me ask you about the letter he sent to president erdogan. he said history will look upon you favorably to get this done. it will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. don't be a tough guy, don't be a fool. i'll call you later. explain that to me. >> it's not very complex. those are very simple sentences. he's a binary thinker, he's a black and white guy. it's either think this or it's that, it's either good or it's evil. and he projects onto other people, as you read --
>> i'm rubber and you're glue president. >> he literally describes himself -- what is now already that famous quote about pelosi being the person who is melting down. that was an exact description of him. and that is so frequently the case. just follow his tweets and you know what's really going on inside him. >> or hillary clinton, you're a puppet and he says no puppet, no puppet during the debates in 2016. tony schwartz, always good to see you. thanks for coming in. coming up, michael moore is here and he'll give us his assessment of the 1,001 days of the trump presidency and how he views donald trump's chances for political survival as the impeachment investigation heats up and we head into the 2020 presidential election year.
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after another week of witness testimony, the impeachment investigation is closing in on its central figure, donald trump. as "the washington post" notes a clear portray has emerged of a president personally orchestrating the effort to pressure a foreign government to dig up dirt on a potential 2020 political rival and marshaling the full resources to help in that endeavor. not only longtime employees
choosing to come forward with damaging evidence, the narrative they are laying out points to potential violations of law that bolster the case for impeachment. on wednesday house spears nancy pelosi said democrats left a meeting with donald trump after he had, quote, a meltdown. here's how lawrence described it. >> it tells the story of the trump presidency better than any other photograph. nancy pelosi immediately placed that photograph on her twitter page and she will never replace it with a better photograph. it is the perfect portrait of the child president filled with confusion and fear, of a 4-year-old boy being rebuked by an adult in the room full of adults who know he shouldn't be there. 50 years from now, school children studying american history will come upon this photograph and they will instantly know who was in charge
in that room, the adult standing and pointing at the pained face across the table. >> joining us now is someone else who likes to look at that photo, michael moore,. academy-award-winning documentary award winner. why do you like that photo so much? >> the last couple days i've been looking at it every hour or so just to feel better. >> why? >> first of all, the last three years have been filled with, i think, a lot of despair that many of us feel. to look at that picture of nancy pelosi, i don't know if you have it up. >> we're going to put it back up. >> this is donald trump's worst nightmare.
this woman standing there telling him what the truth is and not taking any of his bs is -- it's so powerful. i don't know if there are any other women in that room. i can't see. >> there's one in the back. >> there's one in the back, of course. well, there she is letting him have it. and the look on his face, he's not used to women talking to him this way. and the men to his right all hanging their heads in shame, knowing she's right, knowing
he's wrong. it's such a, you know, if you're the parent of daughters, show them this photo, because this is the future, katy. this is the way it's going to have to be when those men on the other side of the table who've been running the world, let's just say my gender has been in charge for the last 10,000 years. that's now coming to a close. and it can't happen really soon enough. >> she said to his face all roads with you lead to putin. >> yes. you know, men -- some men would call that emasculating. if i had been in that room, i would have stood and cheered because this is what we need right now. we need this. let me just say on the broader scale, we win when women run for office, especially local office. we saw this last november. it will happen again next year. women who are watching this right now who are thinking maybe i should be running for office, meaning the women watching this tonight, maybe you should be running. maybe you should be running for office because the old way hasn't worked. >> we're going to talk to you about 2020 in a moment. but i want to play this sound bite from mick mulvaney from yesterday as he confesses to a quid pro quo. >> did he also mention to me that the corruption that related to the dnc server? absolutely, no question about
that. but that's it. that's why he held up the money. the look back to what happened in 2016 certainly was part of the thing he was worried about in corruption with that nation. that is absolutely appropriate. >> what you just described is a quid pro quo. >> we do that all the time with foreign policy. i have news for everybody. get over it. there's going to be political influence in foreign policy. >> i'm just confused because the white house walked that back later and now the campaign is selling t-shirts with "get over it" as a slogan. so what's happening? >> well, of course they are the best at orwellian trickery in terms of -- >> we were never at war with eurasia. >> the beauty of what mulvaney did yesterday, you called it an act of confession. i don't know what got into him. i suggested that maybe there was a truth serum given to him before the press conference. maybe it's just sometimes you have to release, you have to let it go. and he just had to tell the truth. there's something -- there's something redemptive about confession. he is the guy trump yelled at for coughing when george stephanopoulos was interviewing him in the oval office, is that
correct. >> yes. >> i don't know. maybe he was forced by trump to go out there. >> maybe they decided to say it out in the open, it's not that big of a deal. michael, i want to get back to you in 2020 in just a moment. can you stay? stay with us. michael moore and his thoughts on donald trump and the 2020. also, an announcement from him. stay with us. ♪
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michael moore made big news in the 2020 democratic presidential race when he announced he's endorsing bernie sanders. michael moore is back with us. why did you decide to endorse bernie sanders, but a moment ago you said women should win. we win with women. why not endorse one of the women in this race? >> we would win with elizabeth warren or kamala harris. yes, i think that -- even the polls show, they've been showing that the top five beat trump in a head-to-head race. there was an emerson poll yesterday just for iowa where it showed bernie as the only one beating trump head-to-head, but the others were right behind him, elizabeth, biden, mayor pete. any of a number of people can beat him. i endorsed bernie 30 years ago when he ran for congress. >> what do you think is so ripe for this moment about him? >> the reason i think this is his moment, and i think there's a lot of people watching this
who would very much like to see both of them running together. democrats have got to quit being so afraid. oh, we can't get put two progressives on the same ticket. what about two women on the same ticket? we have to stop being afraid. what bernie is really saying is greed runs the country. that has to stop. all the problems that we talk about, all the problems that make movies about, health care, structural america, whatever, they all stem from one problem, the haves call the shots and the have-notes scramble for the columns. >> you know the former blue wall better than anybody. who do you think is going to
resonate in michigan, wisconsin -- >> bernie. >> and ohio? >> bernie won michigan and wisconsin and minnesota. bernie won all those primaries. >> is that who democrats should be focusing on, voters who maybe were obama voters and then were trump voters? >> no. >> can you peel them away or should they focus on new voters? >> yes. i think what we need to do is figure out who didn't come out in '16. hillary lost by two votes for precinct, that's it. what happened in flint and detroit, large numbers of young people and african-americans
just didn't bother to vote. or there was 89,000 people that voted in michigan, voted for everybody down ballot, mostly democrats, and left the top box blank. that's how much they didn't want to vote for hillary clinton. we can't let this happen this time. we have to have people on the ballot, men and women, who are going to bring out that vote. 70% of the electorate next year is either 18 to 35, people of color, or women. and that is the base of the democratic party. let me also add this. i am going to vote for whoever the democrat is. >> who's your second choice? >> my second choice would be elizabeth warren. i had her in two of my movies. i've known for for a long time. she's a wonderful person. >> is that the magic power she has right now? she's leading a lot of polling, but when you look at the second choice, she's everybody's second choice, not everybody, but a lot
of people's second choice if she's not their first choice. >> bernie is number one with adults and latinos and black women between 18 and 35. there's many where he's number one. look, i have nothing critical to say about elizabeth warren other than i think that bernie is going to get the job done. bernie is going to fight. everybody knows this about bernie sanders. even if you don't vote for him, you know he's going to fight for us, for the working people of this country, for the people who are not part of the 1%. >> why do you think there's this conventional wisdom out there that only a moderate can win? only a moderate like joe biden, maybe pete buttigieg, only that person can capture the entirety of the democratic party enough to beat donald trump? >> a moderate, if we go for the moderate, to the center, we're going to lose. the way to inspire our base -- nobody on the -- this is what you have to admire about republicans and conservatives. they don't sit around going,
now, we better have somebody closer to the middle and somebody moderate who doesn't upset the democrats so much. they don't talk like that. they say let's get out there. we believe in this. we're not going to pull back. we're always trying to find a way because we're so frightened and we don't need to be frightened because the majority of the country is with us. the majority believe there's climate change. they want gun control, they believe women should be paid the same as men, they believe in choice. go down all the list of all the issues, the majority agree with the democrats. >> let me ask you about health care. you know unions really well. unions have great health care. >> that's true. >> last thing they have, great health care. private health care. are they going to be willing to vote for someone who's going to say i want to take your great health care. >> absolutely. >> and put government health care in place. >> absolutely. i was just in flint. i'll tell you, because of this gm, uaw strike, the ceo of gm, what did he do? cut their health care. it reminded them this private health care we have, this great
health care, this isn't some permanent thing, your boss can take your health care you from at the snap of a finger. that's what they did to the striking workers. that's what they could do at any time. it is part of our law that says that great health care is yours, simply because you live here. you're a citizen of this country. you are covered. as opposed to general motors or walmart or whatever could just wake up tomorrow and say you know what, you don't have it. just like these camera people and the people here i was just talking to. this used to be union here, union workers at this network. now they're not union. they don't have a choice. they have no security. when it's private profit-making health care. we need health care that is not set up so that a few companies can make billions of dollars in profits. it has to be -- why can't we do this? every other country does this. what is wrong? the other countries pull it off. we should have the same thing. bernie sanders will make sure that this happens.
everybody will be covered. >> can big business and bernie sanders or elizabeth warren -- can those two entities, those candidates and big business, can they get along. >> big business is run by human beings who have a conscience deep, deep down. so yes. >> ceos that it two of them, her more than him. >> i know that. they are so afraid of bernie sanders and elizabeth warren. good. good sign. but you know what? they also know that they have to will you identify in the same society that we're all living in. if there is not a safety net, if these cracks exist where people fall between them and can never recover, we have a society that's worse off. we have a society that's less safe. we have citizens who giving me on their democracy and don't vote. people run these companies better understand that they should start acting like americans with a conscience and do what's right for the people. you know what? you don't need nine vacation homes.
you can get by on three. i mean, nobody wants all your vacation homes, rich people. just hang on to the three, give away the six. >> michael moore. >> and everybody have health care. >> wonderful to meet. >> you so great to meet you, katy. >> thank you for being a fan of "american swamp." >> who do we talk to about bringing it back? >> he's going to fight my bosses. michael moore. >> never let me in this building. >> thank you for promoting my show. he will also be on msnbc tomorrow night for a special airing of his oscar-winning 2002 documentary "bowling for columbine" tomorrow night here on msnbc. coming up, donald trump's cease-fire deal with turkish is neither with experts and our european allies.
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there's a cease-fire or a pause or whatever you want to call it. there was some sniper fire this morning. there was mortar fire this morning that was eliminated quickly. they're back to the full pause. a lot of pain for a couple of days. and sometimes you have to go through some pain before you can get a good solution.
we have a 22-mile strip that for many, many years, turkey, in all fairness, had a legitimate problem with. they had terrorists. they suffered a loss of lives also. and they had to have it cleaned out. >> they had to have it cleaned how fast that is how donald trump describes turkey's actions in northern syria which many believe to be an attempt at ethnically cleansing the region. nicholas kristof is a pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the new york times." this terminology, "cleaned out," is that something he potentially heard from president erdogan and repeated it? >> he's repeating a turkish talking point. i find it infuriating to hear that clip, that we not only betrayed the kurds but then badmouthed them in the process. the kurds in 2014, when the yazidis were facing a genocide, it was the kurds who helped save their lives and avert that genocide.
now they're being betrayed into something like that ethnic cleansing, that the kurds were championing women's empowerment, and then one woman politician, aged 34, gets pulled out of her car and beaten and shot to death by these invaders that we helped unleash on them. >> could you say the kurds were the most western ally in that region for us, the ally that lived up to the more secular ideal of democracy, more so than anybody else, at least? it's all relative, obviously. >> look, this was imperfect, but they genuinely tried to create an entity that was democratic, that protected minority rights like those of the yazidi, like those of the minority christian community, that empowered women.
and they trusted -- then they saved american lives when they worked with us. they trusted us. we told them that they could take out their defenses to the north because we had their backs. and then we walked out and left them to be attacked. >> it's not just abandoning our ally or betraying our ally. we're leaving a vacuum there. and who's going to fill that vacuum? who wins? >> so, you know, often in foreign policy there's a tension between our values and our interests. in this case not only have we betrayed our values but we've damaged our own interests. the beneficiaries here are -- well, the syrian government, iran, russia. with trump, so many roads lead to russia, of course. but we have empowered all the people who we should be attempting to limit in that region. and we've done it not -- you
know, we've done it in the course of damaging our own credibility, the trust that people have for us, from russia to hezbollah to syria, people are cackling about, this teaches anybody not to trust americans anymore. >> how much stock do you put in the cease-fire? >> well, i mean, look, turkey, if they can get what they want without fighting, then of course it's great for them. so they've called on -- the u.s. is incredibly committed to help remove the kurds from this safety zone. a former u.n. diplomat told me that this is a little like the 1938 munich agreement, except that even neville chamberlain didn't agree to move out the czechs from the sudetenland. >> when it comes to polling on the president's strategy in northern syria, the majority of people in the poll don't support
it. 48% don't support, 31% do. does that matter? >> no. look, at the end of the day -- >> to trump, i should say. >> it may matter to trump. but i just find this so deeply offensive, that we've people who trusted us, and then we betrayed them so publicly. and people who were trying to do some of the things we say we care about, and the example this sets to the world. we have this grand rhetoric. everybody knows we don't fully live up to it, we fall short. but we always thought there was at least something to these american ideals that we talked about. now we're shown to be so morally bankrupt before the world, in the course of betraying our friends and empowering our rivals and enemies.
this is just a colossal mistake at every possible minute. "the 11th hour with brian williams" starts right now. kat. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts right now. tonight it's been a month since the whistle-blower and the chaos is raining down. on top of all the insiders telling congress what they saw on the inside, the president's own guy has now confirmed the ukraine story. we know that because he said it in front of cameras. plus turkey is ready to start the pounding again, and they will soon resume their attacks on the kurds. the president says the kurds will be happy. a retired four-star army general says that makes our president sound stupid. in fact, one of our journalists will join us tonight to answer the question, are these indeed the worst days of the trump presidency thus far? all of it as "the 11th hour" gets under way on this friday night.