tv Up With David Gura MSNBC January 4, 2020 6:00am-7:00am PST
necessarily put iranian lives in danger but will be using the proxy forces instead. >> let me turn to you and go back to that piece by barbara slavin. that line, revenge is not a strategy. from all that you heard in the times since this attack took place, any indication that it is more than that? anything more than that? >> look, the department of defense said initially this was done to present an imminent attack that was going to be a step up from what we had seen over the past few months. now a lot of conflicting reports coming out saying that may not have been the case. the big question is not whether soleimani was planning an attack. the guy was probably planning an attack before you and i had our coffee in the morning. this was his job, right? he was the commander one of the most active and most nefarious forces out there. the main question was what were the costs and the benefits of this action?
and it's no the quite clear to me that those were weighed properly and that the next steps, what will happen next was taken into a count in an adequate way. so, you know, it's hard to gauge where the administration stood on this or whether or not it was purely revenge or there were actually reports, intelligence material that indicated that there was going to be an attack from what we're hearing, there is a lot of conflicting information out there. >> eddie, revenge may not be a straty, but it is the barrel of the gun down which we're looking at this point. you listen to the interviews that the ambassador of the u.n. did yesterday, he talked about meeting what happened here with something in kind. there is going to be revenge now. and so we assume some sort of revenge. >> so we know that presidents obama and bush had han opportunity to exact the same strategy -- i don't want to use
this word assassinate or kill this general before. but they knew the consequences. obviously, donald trump and his people believe the consequences were worth the act. it seems to me, i'm stumbling over my words because i'm really unnerved by this. >> right. >> there is no reason for us to believe this administration's justification for this act because they lied to us for three years. iran has the capability to respond across the region and the globe. it will jeopardize people we love. and so i think it's important for us as we engage in the analysis to understand that the fundamental threat that this represents. >> maria, jump in on that. i know you're thinking back to 2003. >> i mean this is -- >> recent history here bears a lot of recognition. zbllt for me, this had is like
sh deja vu all over again. i'm struggling with my words. i'm distraught. my daughter said, hey, what's going on? is there going to be a war. and i said, there might. and she said well that means that president trump will lose. i said no, actually, it probably means he's going to win. it's like why? because the american electorate is completely confused in a war, sadly we've seen will bring voters out. but i'm like you, eddie, i'm thinking about what i was done at cnn at this time getting ready to cover the protests. i covered the young people who were signing up to go and enlist. i'm not sure if that -- if we're going to be seeing the same numbers of people running up to enlist at a time with a president who has said we're going to get out of wars. and now we're all waking up feeling incredibly insecure, certainly every new yorker is feeling incredibly insecure right now. >> tom, help us understand the importance of this moment and shortly after this happened. the there were analysts that said this is unprecedented, a
bridge too far. as you look at this 40-year history, how pivotal a moment are we at? >> in the decade as well. the pivot is the learning curve we've been under in the last 48 hours. very different from 2003. i there are parallels in 2003. i was walking around the tv studios at 3:00 a.m. this is old technology, opening a national geographic atlas and actually looking at the map of iraq. we're all going to do that now on the geography of iran but to me the major thing is the learning curve this nation is under 48 hours into this. >> i'm going to quote from a piece in foreign affairs. a great piece in foreign affairs out yesterday. he writes, the united states must at minimum expect to find itself in conflict with shiite militias that will target civilians and forces and the
theater where the strike took place and the most likely place to respond. a pivotal moment in baghdad today. parliament meeting. there is a very real chance, is there not, that those parliamentarians will say get the troops out of this country. and what does that mean, matt? you as somebody that covered the region and iraq for some time. >> absolutely. i mean this has been a desire of the more hard line shia groups in the iraqi parliament for a very long time. remember it's not just a pivotal moment for the iraqi shiite militias. in an earlier incarnation of the groups, the u.s. referred to them as the special groups back in the day. back shortly after the united states invaded iraq. it was the special groups. iranian backed shiite militias from the sunni backed al qaeda groups in other parts of baghdad and the west of the country. the shia militias were operating mostly out of the east of the country.
they've have been anning tagoni for 20 years. this is not all that much of a switch. the only difference was when isis came up back in 2014 and moved swiftly into iraq. there was this uncomfortable bed fellows between the united states and shia militias that used to kill u.s. troops. then it was the u.s. targeting isis from the air using their drone attacks and it was mostly these shiite militia groups backed by iran fighting isis on the ground. and that has now shifted. there is going to be retaliation and on iraqi soil. hezbollah is only one of several. this are many of them. many of them are backed by iran to varying agrees. the they enjoyed a lot of material support and support politically by iran. the corps that is actually in the government within iraq, they
actually lead several ministries. they're very active on the ground. they also enjoy backing by iran. they're more like an actual indoors political group that functions within the iraqi parliament. there are also going to be urging for the u.s. to get out of iraq because they see the fight against islamic state is over and that they always seen the united states as an antagonistic force and one they consider enemies. we're going to see the fruition of decades of antagonism between the iraqi shiite iranian backed militias on the ground in iraq who constantly been attacking the united states. now they're finally have the pretext to really push the u.s. out and to put pressure on the iraqi government to kick them out. whether or not the united states agrees with that, they probably are going to have to. iraq is an independent country. they are -- they are independent. they're a sovereign state. the united states is there at the wish -- at the invitation of the iraqi government.
>> help us with that learning curve. i want to ask you about the relationship russia and iran. you studied this. you written a book about it. the relationship between russia and uniforms. they come into play and what they're goals have been. >> they're quite complicated. many had hoped that we would be able to and that president trump cultivated with moscow. i don't think that's going to happen. they navigate all the different
relationships and interests that they have in the region. they kaes late tensions with the united states. the they have a decent relationship with israel. the chief rivals in the region. so the russians will continue to try to and work with all of the different actors, balance all of them against each other. and the russians will continue to play a really important role, perhaps the most important role of any country. iranians will ramp up some of the activities and response to what happened. and to also make sure that they send a strong signal to the united states and others. that you can get rid of soleimani but you can't get rid of soleimani's work. you know, his life's work was essentially to help the assad regime survive.
along with building the network of proxies. iran will try to send a strong signal that you may be able to get rid of one man but you're not going to get rid of the legacy that he's left behind. >> thank you very much. thanks to nbc news's matt bradley in tel aviv this morning as well. coming up, left in the dark, chuck schumer, one of the many democrats slamming the president after he gave advance notice to some republicans of the strikes that killed soleimani and told democrats nothing about it. the first deep dive into who general soleimani was and the significance of his death to the iranian regime. the iranian gireme let's be honest, quitting smoking is freaking hard. like quitting every monday hard. quitting feels so big. so, try making it smaller. and you'll be surprised at how easily starting small...
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this is "up." not sure what happened there. iran warned of imminent harsh retaliate. soleimanis was the second most powerful person in iran and behind every iranian military operation in the past two decades. former zpu ti assistant secretary of defense writes this about soleimani for the atlantic from a military perspective, he was david pe trayiesous and stan mckrst crystal rolled into one. >> wilkerson was the chief of staff to colin powell and now on the faculty at the college of william & mary. let me ask you first of all, colonel, if i could, just what you make of the reaction so far. we're talking about the risks that might happen down the line
here in days, weeks, or months. you've seen the airborne deployed to the region. your response to how the pentagon has responded to what happened on friday. >> let me first frame it for you a little bit, david. i was in the roosevelt room outside of the oval office with president obama and secretary of state kerry in the last year of obama's eight years. the president blew me away. his first remarks there is a bias in this town towards war. my first reaction was, what i often get from my 18-year-old granddaughter. you think, mr. president? you think? this is a man who had been through se through syria, yemen, afghanistan, so forth. mr. trump came to washington to drain the swamp. last night the night before, the day before, an alligator from that swamp lept out and got mr. trump by the throat. this was an act that escalated
the situation in the middle east to the extent that now we are on a fairly sure course for war. that's what the bias in washington is for. that's what the bias wants. that's what we're headed for. that's how serious this was aside from any psycho analysis of trump or soleimani or any other character playing in this. that's what happened here. the war machine is on the mark. >> colonel, there's been a conversation here at the table this hour, last hour as well about what happened back in 2003. i no that he is something you spent a lot of time thinking about as well. given who your former boss was, the lessons learned from all of that. does anything indicate to that you this is going to be somehow different, that the experience of what happened in 2003 leading up to the war in iraq is going to shape somehow, reshape the prism through which we look at what happened in baghdad? >> i think we started that in 2003. we destabilized the entire
region. what we're seeing today is a direct result and what we've seen over the last few years of that catastrophic strategic decision to take out hussein and to stay around and occupy iraq. what is happening now though is taking that and order of dimension or two further. we've got an 80 million people with great strategic depth, all capabilities to respond to us. all over the globe. this is as serious a situation as that decision in 2003 times ten. and what we've done is destroyed the one diplomatic achievement that might have put a cap on the most dangerous aspect of this, iran's nuclear weapons program. i'm afraid that iran will make a decision much p like north korea made to abandon the nuclear nonproliferation treaty and throw out the inspectors and go full bore 24/7 probably to develop a nuclear weapon. that's incredibly destabilizing
for the region because israel, saudi arabia and others will not like that at all. >> you set the table here for us and i wish we had the cram on you when your shoulders slumped saying this is 2003 times sten. >> yeah this is scary. you know, there's a quote from william has let that comes to mind, right. from the moment we marked the destruction of our enemy as an indispensable condition for our own safety, our destruction from that moment becomes necessary for his. so it's almost as if we set the table, that the u.s. in this imperial way moves as if it has no consequence for its actions. and what we do know is this -- iran has the capability. it has the will to respond in kind. and it's not going to be trump's child.
it won't be the children of the top 10%. it will be those folks in appalachian and the folks in the dealt yashgs t delta in the rural and poor countries that have to bear the burden of this decision. i think as ted cruz and mitch mcconnell and all of these folks line up and beat the drums of war, we need to understand what this means for every day ordinary americans. we should be shuttering in our seats right now and preparing to get up and really resist the drum beats of war. . >> this goes to who you cover and report on so much, latinos in this country as well. these are folks that are going to go fight a war should there be one. >> absolutely. st also there are protests happening across the country. i think at 11:00 here in new york city there will be protests. so people are rising up. we've seen massive protests. but at the same time, it doesn't seem to be changing much at least in this runup to the war. the colonel's words actually, eddie and i are -- i'm about to
start hugging on eddie. it's like terrifying the colonel's words. and sadly, you know, the lead-up to the war in iraq was set by george w. bush and colin powell who so many people loved but ended up hating and ended up lying to all of us. here's what's really weird. my son, a lot of family references, but he was showing me dave shah pel from 2004. doing a skit as if george w. bush is black. why did george w. bush who was black go into iraq? it's like it's nothing what we're telling you. it was that he tried to kill my daddy. and that's why george w. bush now being played by dave shapel as a black man went into iraq. we don't know. i'm sure that everybody watching this show is like learning curve. we didn't know about general soleimani until yesterday. and now we have to be afraid of him?
>> that's really true. >> so everybody across the country, they're like everything that was just spoken about on this show which is such a brilliant show and we're so sad that you're not going to be here because there are so much intelligence. but everybody is saying, wait, i don't know about this. i don't know exactly about the shiites and hezbollah and what are they going to do. and if they're going to attack iraq which is what i started to get worried about, it's not just going to be american kids, latino kids, it's going to be innocent iraqis yet again. >> david, what is so posh here, i heard from colonel will kinson yesterday is everyone in the military who knows who ends up fighting conflicts, who fights wars, where is the political diplomatic strategy of the united states of america? i'm hearing from every single experienced military official, we need a strategy. and it's no the that they're part of it because of exhaustion. you know, it's been since 2003 if not longer.
>> colonel, taking your metaphor of the alligator biting trump by the throat, there were people around him for a time who knew more about the swamp than he and you look now who is advising him and that secretary of state mike pompeo, a proud hawk, ambassador bolton cheerleading what happened in the wing saying this could lead to a regime change. how does that compound or exacerbate your concern, the fact there are no reasonable minds in the room? there are no folks around president trum thap sp that are what you're saying. there is a machine that runs in perpetuity here and could be dangerous if not stopped. >> you didn't mention lindsey graham and tom cotton and a host of others. the leadership in the congress just unconscienceable. look at what they did recently profounding an insab amount of money for the defense department but eliminating and the democrats participate in this, eliminating amendments that would have gotten the united states out of the disastrous
brutal war in yemen, eliminating amendment that's would have caused the congress to exert its war power and tell the president if you're going to use force against iraq, you got to come here first. they eliminated all that. so you got a bunch of cowards in the congress and worse, you got people who are complicit with this warfare state with, this state that has to live for making war on other countries. wi we forget as unconscienceable as he was, is, was, the man used instruments at his behest in order to fight the empire. of the empire killed 400,000 to 600,000 in the last 18 years. oenlt weap the weaponly weapon they have i what soleimani was advocating and leading and doing. i'm not blessing what he was doing. i'm just saying you have to put your mind in in the enemy's
mind. you have to think like he thinks. you have to consider what he might do. st now we've unleashed all of this capability against tourists, against businessmen and women, against our diplomats and certainly against our military all over the globe. but particularly in southwest arab yach asia. we have taken this situation which was tense as it could be already and we escalated it mainlior majorly with no plan for the next step. >> colonel at the william & mary. thank you very much for the time on this saturday morning. just ahead, dire warnings, 2020 candidates react to the death of general soleimani and share concerns over the consequences of president trump's air strikes. 's air strikes. as a struggling actor,
as president trump faces criticism for his decision to authorize the air strike that killed general qasem soleimani, there is growing concerns about what happened next and the administration's understanding of the attack exacerbated the tensions. the president taunting iran with this tweet, iran never won a wore, he writes, but never lost a negotiation. candidates for the democratic nomination have been weighing in on president trump's decision. take a listen to some of them. >> iran's influence in that region has grown significantly under this president. he has not shown an ability to have strategic thinking about how to deconflict that region. >> we're on the brink of a new
kund kind of major conflict in the middle east. there's no doubt that risks are greater today because of the action that's donald trump has taken. >> unfortunately, at a tlij this when it is so important that american president and administration be credible, american correct is low. >> trump promised to end endless wars. tragically, his actions now put us on the path to another war. >> a big piece in the "new york times" today about how this will reshape the candidate's platforms and discourse about policy among democrats. tom keen, i'll start with you. i know you watched the debates thus far. and foreign policy i think has been a koda. >> yes. >> until yesterday. >> there you go. does it change things as we look ahead to the next debate in iowa in a couple weeks? is this something that is going to be front and center? is this something that we have been talking about the learning curve here, what voters are trying to process is going to come to the forefront? >> my experience on this and i
turn maria here, it's an issue until it's not and you go to an election i would suggest foreign policy and fiscal policy drift away. . so i'm going to say yes it's a topic. but then it woept be. >> it's an opportunity for differentiation though even as you listen to the clips. you have bernie sanders making his point quite loudly. there are degrees of nuance here. this is an opportunity for democrats to distinguish themselves from each other. >> yes. i would like to have a lot more skepticism across the board from all of the democratic candidates because i as a journalist am feeling incredibly skeptical about everything that just happened. i'd like us to -- i'd love to hear them recognize that how is it the tail is being wagged, wagging the dog. [ speaking spanish ] we know what is going on with the tail and wagging. i would like to be more up front about. that i also am -- what just
happened to all of the rest of the news happening in the world right now? so i worry about the fact that now the presidential candidates will only be talking about this and yet at the same time if we think back to what the colonel just said, i can't believe that this is going to be a runup to war. i'm just still like, no. i just -- i cannot believe that is going to happen. i hope that candidates all come out and say this can't happen. >> two things emerge. we begin to see differences between those that are hawkish and those not so much doves about ut who are really concerned about restraining u.s. military power in particular sorts of ways, emphasizing soft power and the like. it's important. so we heard, for example, vice president biden saying that this was used the word assassination. we heard mayor michael bloomberg say that was ridiculous, why would you call it an assassination? that distinction matters in terms of thinking about the view of foreign policy. we know that senator warren made a particular point about general
soleimani saying that soleimani saying he was a murderer but this was an overextension. we need to begin to see where they stand with regards to the use of american military might. that's important. the second point is this. the we also need to understand their view of the president's power with regards to exercising war. one of the interesting things about the current debate in the congress, for example, is that the president is being impeached for among other things an overabuse of executive power. so usually when the war powers act is invoked is a question. it's not been invoked under these conditions but it's always been about the limit, the scope of executive power. now we have this particular question that has been raised in the context 26003 and the context 1998 being raised in a moment when the president is being accused of abusing his power. now we need to hear where these democratic candidates stand with regards to executive power. it's not just enough to blame donald trump. with he into he had to understand whether it's a
democrat or a republican in it office, this imperial presidency is unpopular, period. >> the lastly to you about the moment that we're n i spoke with julian castro that dropped out of presidential race this week. he delivered a big address at stanford university on foreign policy. there was a sense after that address there wasn't a huge audience for it. i want to ask you about that more broadly here. we have a president that says america first. he advocates for isolations policies, are we seeing the consequences of that? shou that shaping the prism through which we're looking at this directly or indirectly, a level of in curioe curiosity or disinterest? >> the shades of the different candidates need to be identified. i did it yesterday. i simply said where is the scoop jackson of the democratic party? a name from another time and place. is there room within the middle liberal experiment for someone with a more traditionalist conservative point like john
kennedy or like scoop jackson? are they out there? >> marie? is that joe biden? >> as a mod sflat. >> a more democratic voice positioned as pro military. long ago and far away that actually existed. >> that's why i'm just like oh, i can't -- you know, i feel like everything -- this conversation of what is happening now is not a normal kind of a conversation because of everything that we've been living through for the past three years. >> i think that is my point. >> everything that we think we knew about -- >> totally agree. >> is completely upside down. that's why i think -- and thank you for your astute of the democratic candidates. that's why we love you. much but in general, i'm still at the point of how are they, like, we don't know how they're responding actually in terms of the more specificity of what you're asking for. their positions on the american military and on power. >> we might expect -- we need to
hear what amy klobuchar said and joe biden said and pete buttigieg is saying. that middle lane acrowded. it's important to hear what they're saying so we can begin to make some zirvegstions. >> imagine if the field is as diverse as it once was. what would happen if young castro were there and kamala harris and the young people on the front lines. so the debate has slufrhrunk. >> still ahead, left out of the loop, president trump briefed some republicans close to him about the plans to target soleimani but did not get around to briefing democrats. the president's decision to circumvent congress and what precedent it could set as tensions with iran escalate. h i.
this is the equivalent of the iranians assassinating the u.s. secretary of defense. >> house democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, a member of the foreign relations committee' rkti reacting to conf attacking soleimani. on capitol hill, lawmakers left out of the loop on the decision to kill iran's top military leader reacted to the targeted attack. here is chuck schumer of new york. >> no one should shed a tear over his death. the operation against soleimani in iraq was conducted, however, without specific authorization and any advance notification or consultation with congress. i'm a member of the gang of eight which is typically briefed in advance of operations of this level of significance. we were not. >> who was notified and for one senior senator from south carolina lindsey graham. let's listen to him. >> i was briefed about the
potential operation when i was down in florida. i appreciate being brought into the orbit. i was aware of what his options were. they were about to unleash holy hell on our people in iraq and throughout the region and the president decisively took action. >> this morning senator graham tweeting this, to those republicans and democrats who call the death of soleimani an assassination, that is nuts. we're joined by senator gary peters from michigan. he sits on the senate arms services committee. he was lieutenant commander in the u.s. navy reserve as well. let me ask you to react to what we just heard there. the tape from senate minority leader chuck schumer and the senior senator from south carolina. we've been here a few months ago. there were select members of the congress notifieden that is something different from the way it's been done in the past. >> there is no question that it's different in the past. it was about coming together.
making sure the executive branch and the congressional branch were on the same page. certainly as take country we're stronger when our lektelected leaders are all on the same page. we need to be acting in a united front. that's no what we see from this president. apparently as was clear from what you played, the only member of congress that is aware is someone down at his golf resort playing golf with him. that's not the way to inform congress and part of the reason we have the involvement of congress in this process is that it's partst checks and balances that our founders thought were so clear. a central question that we have right now was what was this imminent threat that we were faced with? we don't know. we've just heard generally there was an imminent threat. we haven't been briefed on. that i understand we're going to have a classified briefing next week when we get back to washington. but the idea that you would just go ahead without consulting congress and actually having members of congress in the leadership to question the
administration as to what is the justification for this is part of the checks and balances that is very central to our republic. >> we have read a piece by dexter in the new yorker without doubt, the most comprehensive english language buy graphical piece about soleimani. this targeted attack. the biggest danger, of course, is that iranians respond and possibly miscalculate and then the united states does the same. that is how wars start. as i say, you sit on sask, what are you worried about at this moment? >> well, i think you're right. it's miscalculation that can start a war particularly the situation like this where you have heightened tensions. you have taken out general soleimani escalated the tensions. . there is no question about that. we're likely to see some sort of
retaliatory action. we do have to prepare for a threat that is very real. so that's why i think the next stew foou da few days will be critical and a test of this administration. did they have a strategy? i haven't seen the strategy. i've never been briefed as to how they want to deal with iran. it seems to be reactionary and not forward looking. i don't think there is several moves ahead. that will become apparent or one way or another in next few days. fwhe we're in a dangerous period that is going to require thoughtful moves on parts of the united states and to make sure this doesn't ratchet up and escalate out of control which is not in anybody's interests and especially the american people and certainly i do not want to see a war in iran. we cannot have that happen. >> senator, i would agree with my colleague of marie whoe has a question for you. >> senator, i was raised in chicago. i'm all about the midwest and that kind of, you know, straight up earnest beliefs that come from the midwest. and so i'm just wondering as you
prepare for this briefing, given what we've been talking about on this show, the fact that this administration has lied to the american people over and over and over again, how do you know what to believe in fact when you're being briefed? >> great question. >> well, you know, it's certainly we rely on the professionals in the room and the military. we will ask probing questions and have to believe what they are saying. but you're right. we have to go in this with a level of skepticism given the past behavior of this administration. and i think we have to challenge the military folks who will be briefing very aggressively. we have to ask the question of this was an imminent threat, how was taking out the general the way to stop that threat? and was that successful in the long run? and again, it's related to what we're going to see happen over the next few days from a strategic standpoint. this was a tactical attack basically. but in the long run had, the
success or failure of what the administration does is how was the strategy implemented and how has the strategy brought a more stable middle east than we have right now? so far we haven't seen any evidence of this administration has been successful in that aspect. >> senator, great to speak with you once again. thank you for carving out the time on this saturday. time keen, quickly to you. one thing we didn't talk about is what this means with the impeachment proceedings. the debate over what this trial is going to look like. >> mitch mcconnell is fascinating, just the boeddy language yesterday. you wonder how that would have changed without this military event, without the death plaintiff soleimani, general soleimani. but what is extraordinary is the path not out a yeeshgs tar, the out six months and the turmoil in the last 48 hours. we have to get out. i think today is a little more of a coucacophony than yesterda.
>> up next, before usair strikes killed general soleimani, the trump announced sanctions on a ma lish yachlt the question on who the sanctions will impact. that's just ahead. e sanctions w. that's just ahead. s like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa
thnchts when there is military action in the middle east, oil prices go up and the stock market goes down. that is what what happened on friday. oil prices jumping almost 5% at one point. the dow and the s&p posting their worst one day loss in a month. you and i used to anchor a show together on bloomberg radio. we're talking about the cyclical nature of this. what can we learn about the market reaction? >> i knew that you'd ask. what you do is you look at your bloomberg terminal. you've got four of them. you look at stocks, you look at bonds and commodities but what the pros look at is foreign exchange and i did not see panic there yesterday. what we look at is the dynamics of the japanese yen and the u.s.
dollar. i want to explain why, no time for that other than to say the message in the markets as of friday was no panic. >> eddie, there was a lot of interviews yesterday with the iranian ambassador to the u.n. and something that was asked of him is this going to be a shooting war? let's spend a moment on the economic war. this is how it's been waged by the obama administration and to the trump administration and a lot of what's being bridged here. >> the u.s. has since donald trump's election the u.s. has engaged in intensification of that economic war literally trying to destroy the country and the people in the country. not simply the elites and in some ways by pulling out of the nuclear treaty or jcpo, i can't even get it out. pulling out of that, most folks in some ways kind of predicted that this would happen so you pull out of the treaty, you
intensify the sanctions and in some way try to destroy the economy of iran and force them into a corner where they have to then try to defend themselves by engaging in escalating forms of self-defense and so it makes sense to me given the war that we have actually been engaging in, something that we have done by the way with regards to venezuela as well and that we would see this sort of response and most people predicted that this would be the response, that we would end up right where we are. >> so an iranian source of mine just texted me. iranians are infuriated as they should be. this is an outright act of war and then first the sanctions, now this. so we don't have a sense here in the united states what the sanctions have meant for the people of iran. and i love you, tom. we just met, but to be kind of hearing you talking about well, if you look at this one and the yen, i'm just like, i'm
horrified. what i did hear is that in fact petrol has gotten more expensive overnight in iran and teheran so there is an economic impact that they're feeling immediately, but you can't -- we can't -- i'm just hearing the words of president eisenhower. i know everybody's like what? and i wasn't alive when he was president but he spoke about the military industrial complex. war is forecaprofitable. >> i'm going to say one thing and that is to what your people said earlier this morning. iran is the one country in the middle east where they structured society a legitimate middle class and educated middle class. tgs for every interview i've ever done, this is the one nation that can be an example of a success in a broader middle
east. here we are at this point again. >> there's a whole life going on right now even while we're freaking out in new york city, the people of teheran, my sources are telling me is that they are living their lives because they have been living under this kind of threat for years. that there are extraordinary high end fabulous restaurants, art dealers, all of this stuff that is happening in teheran, not the rest of the country necessarily but we don't have a sense of it in this country and this notion that we're going to take somebody out, this was a military man, but he was seen in that country as a protector and of somebody who was highly educated as well. >> the fact that diplomacy is dead as she sees it for this administration or beyond, our understanding is something that's going to be reduced or curtailed as a result of that. >> since president trump took office and there are a lot of
people who made him possible. a lot of people who have provided cover for his life and the like. the u.s.'s standing has been substantially diminished and it's not just his fault. we can go down the line. right? there's no reason for anybody to trust or word anymore seems to me. >> there's talk of what retaliation may be when it comes to companies and cyber attacks. fear that banks and financial problems. >> it was the number one thing that james brought up yesterday. he was in charge of the blue project coming out of 9/11. he's the most wired up military guy and that was the first thing he said to me yesterday was the new legitimate global threat to this new thing that we really don't understand. >> scared the hell out of a lot of people. >> have a donut. we're going to hug it out. >> thanks to my panel joining me here in new york and coming up
resolving a major threat to regional and international security. without a deal, we risk even more war in the middle east. so let's not mince words. the choice we face is ultimately between diplomacy or some form of war. maybe not tomorrow, maybe not three months from now, but soon. >> that's an absurd argument and it's one they've made from the beginning. it's what the president negotiates or it's war. that's never been the alternative. >> welcome to a.m. joy. i wonder who turned out to be right? one of donald trump's most prominent act was to pull the u.s. out of the iran nuclear deal. according to the british ambassador he did so just to spite the memory of president obama. surprise, surprise. and today we find ourselves on the brink of war with iran after the t