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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  June 12, 2020 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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book. you'll remember that john bolton refused to testify or handily avoided testifying during the democratic-led impeachment proceedings against trump late last year. he says he included everything he testified about had he been man enough to get up there and say his peace when it mattered. it has been absolutely palpable all day long. but i'll tell you early next week, we are going to be speaking to a former senior government -- senior government official who i am very much looking forward to hearing from who may be a little bit of the antidote to john bolton, and that is robert gates who will be joining us live here on tuesday night as his new book comes out. couldn't be happier about it. see you on monday. one week ago i sat here and said to you that donald trump is
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the wrong president for this moment. and since then the reality of that has come into even sharper focus. to be blunt, the president makes bad situations worse, and he's woefully out of touch with the majority of americans on matters of critical importance to our equality, health and well-being. trump is simply incapable of addressing the issue of race in my substantive way. the death of george floyd has been a turning point in our culture. nearly three weeks after his death, we're still seeing protests across the country, and those protests are starting to lead to small but meaningful changes. city and state officials and individual police departments are taking action to update a century's old cycle of inequality in policing for black men and women. we will have more on those specific changes coming up. but where is the president in this discussion? virtually absent. while local leaders are doing the tough work, trump is having trouble with taking even
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superficial or symbolic steps in the right direction. yesterday, for instance, he held an event in dallas on race and policing, an event that failed to include the city's police chief, the sheriff and the district attorney, all of whom are black. today trump made a bizarre claim in an interview with fox about what he had done for the black community. >> i think i have done more for the black community than any other president and let's take a pass on abraham lincoln because he did good. although, it's always questionable. >> well, we are free, mr. president. he did pretty well. >> i'm going to take a pass on abe, honest abe as we call him. >> well, we are free, mr. president. "the new york times" might have put it best when it said that
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the president, quote, increasingly sounds like a cultural relic on issues of race. but public opinion is shifting quickly on race in america and even some of the most cautious leaders in institutions are talking openly about discrimination and reconciliation. meanwhile, trump, quote, has never appeared more isolated on a dominant social and political movement in the country. hunkered down at the white house, tweeting conspiracy theories about injured protesters. it should come as no surprise, then, that in a new nbc report trump told aids, quote, these aren't my voters during a discussion about protesters. so much for unifying america, i guess. he can't even pick the low hanging fruit. trump can't even support renaming military bases that bear the names of long, dead confederate soldiers who were rebels against the republic and on the losing side of the war, the side that wanted to keep slavery. military officials and even some republican senators are open to the purely symbolic move of changing base names. but trump just sends out dog whistles about the names being those -- the names of those racist confederates being too important to america's history.
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the president has gone silent on the coronavirus pandemic at a time when infection rates are now on the rise in many states. last week, dr. anthony fauci said he's no longer in frequent contact with trump and the daily coronavirus task force briefings long ago faded into the distance. but hospitalizations in at least nine states are on the rise, and self states have seen their biggest one day rise in new cases this week. the federal response to that is almost nonexistent. think about it. we just hit two million covid-19 infections in the united states, and the president said nothing about it. the president's inability to meet the moment on two of the biggest and most urgent crises of our day are vividly illustrated in a single event he is holding next week. donald trump is holding his
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first campaign rally in months in tulsa, oklahoma, a city infamous for the 1921 burning of black wall street. it's going to be held, by the way, on juneteenth, a day of symbolic significance to the struggle for black civil rights in america. what's more, the trump campaign is not requiring face masks or social distancing at the rally. but it does have a disclaimer at the bottom of a registration page for the event that reads, in part, by attending this rally, you and any guests voluntarily assume all risks related to exposure to covid-19 and agree not to hold donald j. trump for president incorporated liable for any illness or injury. in other words, don't sue us if you get sick or die. this is what the president had in mind when he said, make america great again. all right. leading up our discussion tonight, the senior director of progressive programming at sirius xm radio and the author of an upcoming book. "the end of white politics: how to heal our political divide." also joining me jonathan alter,
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columnist for the daily beast. both are msnbc political analysts. thanks to both of us for being with us. i'm not going to play it again because i just played a little bit of the trump interview on fox news. but he talked about being great for the black community and sort of accepting abraham lincoln because he's not too sure of his performance. i'm puzzled because i'm not sure if our viewers think that's true, but i am puzzled as to what he gets for saying that. >> yeah. i think that it's a voter suppression strategy, but it's also a strategy to comfort his base of voters. so no -- none of his voters want to think that they are racist. they may harbor views for people of color or black people. they may say things like, well, i wish the protesters wouldn't loot or be violent or break windows. i mean, i think it's bad. that video was sad. but i'm not racist but i support trump because of the tax cuts, right. so that articulate a policy
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reason while ignoring all of the racism. and in this particular moment, it's very clear that you have to pick a side on, you know, on this issue of racism in the united states and the origins going back to our founding. and donald trump essentially is making his base feel okay with supporting him. so he says things like, well, i've done so much for black people. and what his base hears is that, you know, black people who complain about donald trump, they're just ungrateful for all he has done. it's basically to give his base cover for being labeled as racism for supporting trump. >> that's interesting. i hadn't thought about that. jonathan alter, this has come full circle for joe biden, who started his campaign for president with a video, a very vivid video about the charlottesville images and a reminder that that's not who we are.
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i wouldn't have thought -- in fact, some people thought that message got away from joe biden because we had sort of moved away from that moment. but, in fact, george floyd and the movement about police brutality and the movement about institutionalized racism that seems to be picking up steam amongst americans that are not black goes right back to where joe biden said we want to go. so the alternative message to make america great again is this is not who we are. this is who we are. let's be that. >> well, it turns out that joe biden has, who knew, the perfect message for 2020 of reconciliation, rights, restoring the soul of america. he's been saying that since the start. and it seemed like kind of a dated message when he started with this last year. but it turns out to be perfectly in tune with where the country
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is. and then when you have him stepping up and showing leadership as he did yesterday in introducing a very sophisticated and potentially very effective plan for confronting the covid-19 crisis and for opening up the economy, he realized we have one candidate who is a leader who wants to bring reconciliation, and we have a president who wants to make america hate again. that's all that he really has to offer. you know, he has not been able to make america great. everything that he promised he would do starting with mexico to pay for the wall he has not accomplished. we are the laughing stock of the world. we have completely failed to lead both abroad and at home and so the only play he has, the only move he has is to go hard right. his problem, and he's in deep political trouble, donald trump
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is, his basic problem is he has nowhere to go to make up the room, to make up the gap. where does he get the new votes that he needs to win? it's not clear at all today. >> yeah. and i wonder whether being quiet is not just a better thing for him. i mentioned the renaming of bases that are named after confederate generals and confederate heroes as low hanging fruit. they're all dead. they were in the losing side of a war and those are bases on which the u.s. military operates, the u.s. military against which confederate soldiers fought. this is not complex. this is not the hard part of this. it is actually only symbolic. i don't know that anybody's life gets better because you change the name of a base away from that of a confederate general, but donald trump can't even get his name around that. >> i still think at the end of the day he's always talking to his base. so i think that the defense of keeping the names as they are is
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a signal to his base again that he's with them on this issue and that he hears them when they say keep the statutes up. we need to appreciate our quote, unquote southern heritage, right? and i think that, you know, it is a lot of gas lighting going on. donald trump is the gas lighter in chief. it's been that way since the beginning. but i think that, you know, this is a moment where none of that is going to work. you have the pandemic in the backdrop of all of this, and so every single one of his deficiencies are on full display. and you have somebody who essentially is a reality star play acting as president and he is not competent in leading the federal government through the response, which actually requires attention to detail and pulling the different levers of power. he just is not equipped to do any of that. and i think that's so fully on display in this moment. so all he had, all he has is racism. that is the only thing, that's
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the only card. it's like when the republicans criticize, you know, black people for playing the race card. donald trump plays the racism card and he's playing the whole deck. he's playing the whole deck. going to tulsa on juneteenth is a message to black people. going there on the day that we celebrate our freedom and going there with his essentially supporter who is are very overtly racist, right? steven miller is writing this speech and he is a white nationalist. going there is sending a message to black people that you are not free. we do not agree with black lives matter and what you are saying in the streets declared equal justice and rights. we are on the other side of that. so for the rest of us, we need to be clear on where we stand and then make sure we can demonstrate that at the ballot box in november. >> jonathan alter, donald trump has an unusual relationship with the military.
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he's never served in the military, but he has some sort of fetish with the military. tomorrow morning he will deliver the commencement address at west point. and it seems as sort of a strangled effort. he's going to have this remarkable backdrop. what's really happening is that some of his own military leaders and former defense secretaries and former military officials have all distanced themselves from the actions that he's taken over the last few weeks, including getting federal troops into the streets or at least calling for the idea that federal troops going to the streets. he's sort of -- he's missing the moment entirely. he's going to seem out of place there tomorrow. >> you know, this is one of the most fascinating political developments of recent times, the sort of unwarring of the republican party from the military. i'm not saying that biden is going to carry every vote. but it is astonishing when you see mark milley basically denouncing the president, saying that he embarrassed him and the
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armed forces by politicizing that event when he held up the bible. you see jim mattis who has immense respect. general mattis is the most revered person in the military in recent years, when you see him denounce in very clear terms the president of the united states and say that he is a threat to our country and our values, this will have an effect within the military. that's why i think, look, trump can win. a lot can happen. but more likely that there is a joe biden landslide than a donald trump victory. when you are on the wrong side of the commissioner of the nfl and chairman of the joint chiefs, you have a real political problem. and the question now is whether with trump on the defensive the democrats can get their act together enough to have a big victory where they really clean out the stables, clean out all the trump enablers, all the
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trump apologists, send them packing. then next year our country can come together because we have already in some ways come together in this moment. this is a moral imperative. you know, this was a time of choosing. there was moral power in what happened not just those comments from those military leaders but what happened in the streets, and people power, moral power. that's what changes the world. so i have actually been very encouraged by what's happened. as painful as it's been over the last couple of weeks, the country is coming together, rejecting donald trump and drawing a line in the sand. >> the country was born of protests. the civil rights movement was born of protests. some of the finest things in this country have come of protests and that is what we have seen in the last few weeks. thanks to both of you.
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jonathan, good to see you as always. coming up, we are still in the midst of a pandemic, despite the messaging coming from the trump white house. i will talk to the health commissioner of oregon, where despite a very low infection rate, they're taking a pause just out of precaution. just outn just because of an accident, even if it's your fault. cut! sonny. was that good? line! the desert never lies. isn't that what i said? no you were talking about allstate and insurance. i just... when i... let's try again. everybody back to one. accident forgiveness from allstate. click or call for a quote today.
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we thought you can help ray bring hiwhat?s to school. kelly, do you know him? -he's a new friend. you ok? you know you can tell me. i'm ok. oh, i trained her in the car. she's not gonna break. [ laughing ] the united states is still
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in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic, averaging 20,000 new cases and hundreds of deaths every day. more than 115,000 people have died so far of the coronavirus. while the situation is improving in some of the hardest hit -- i'm sorry, the hardest hit cities in the northeast, there is an alarming rise in cases in the south and the west as states move to reopen. florida and texas both reported record daily high numbers of cases this week. and today tulsa county, oklahoma reported its highest ever daily increase in cases. tulsa is where donald trump plans to hold a campaign rally one week from tonight in an outdoor arena, even though trump's own cdc just released new guidelines that say that the highest risk of coronavirus is in, quote, large, in-person gatherings where it is difficult for individuals to remain spaced at least six feet apart and
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attendees travel from outside the local area, end quote. that might be why the campaign is making attendees sign waivers saying they can't sue if they contract coronavirus. meanwhile, the white house economic adviser larry kudlow down played the virus numbers today. >> i spoke to our health experts at some length last evening. they are saying there is no second spike. let me repeat that. there is no second spike. >> all right. in oregon, we're seeing a different kind of leadership, even though the state has one of the lowest infection rates in the country. the seven-day average of new cases has increased by 190% in the last 14 days, 190% in two weeks. today the democratic governor of oregon, kate brown, announced he is pausing her state's reopening for a week. >> today's decision to pause as a state is a clear reminder that we need to double down on the simple but effective precautions each of us should take to reduce the spread of the disease.
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i know how frustrating it is to move slowly. we all wish this re-opening could be happening faster. my job, however, is to make tough decisions, even when they are unpopular. and when it comes to the health and safety of oregonians, the buck stops here. >> joining us now is dr. shawn side linger, the oregon state health officer and epidemiologist. good to see you. thank you for being with us. tell me how these decisions get made. because what we have been hearing for three months or more is a push and pull between political and economic interests and public health interests. >> i think these decisions get made looking at the data. as you showed we had increased cases here in organ and we're seeing people presenting to the hospital for admission. this indicates the disease is still circulating here in oregon.
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we want to make sure this trend doesn't continue. if we can take a pause, not reopen additional counties to additional activities, see what the data shows over the next week, we can make some data driven recommendations to governor brown and we can come up with some decisions that will keep the health and safety of oregonians first and foremost in our minds. >> so you may not be ready for the recommendation stage yet, but what does the data tell you about what's going on here? how is it different than what you would have expected to happen if you hadn't seen the spike? >> i think, you know, oregon began opening some of our rural counties three weeks ago. we knew that wasn't without risk as people participated in more activities. we knew the risk of transmission would go up and more cases and hospitalizations. we had a wonderful, beautiful late memorial day weekend, and we know that many people gathered with friends and families that they hadn't seen before.
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what we're seeing now is what happened two and three weeks ago. we are seeing the results of some of those social gatherings with cases among those friends and family and hit by large workplace outbreaks. agriculture is very important here in oregon, so our workers are impacted and some of our food processing plants. some of those things together along with increased movement with people around the case we're seeing increased cases. if we can work together and say they have done an amazing job that taking the steps to protect themselves, staying six feet apart, staying home when they are sick, these are all things they can do to protect themselves, their families and fellow community. >> your raw numbers are not large. put on the screen the graphics regarding coronavirus hospitalizations in oregon. but you can see on the right side of that graphic, the increase. where portland is has never gotten to phase one. it was the one place that didn't get to the phase of opening. that of course is the economic
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center of the state. >> that's correct. and we have to take these decisions. we know that staying closed with many businesses closed, those economic impact on employees, small and large bids are tremendous and those economic impacts have health impacts. but we also want to move forward cautiously to prevent the spread of the disease acutely. so there is still things people can do in portland. they can get out and enjoy the outside, enjoy the parks. most stores are open and they can do so physically distanced. they can order takeout and bring food home. there is still many things available to people of portland and we want to work quickly to get those companies, those industries back to work as safely as we can moving forward and we think this one week pause, reexamining the data next week, coming toward with plans how to do that safely as well as some of the other counties that have prepared applications to
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move to phase two we can do that moving forward together and we can do it safely here in oregon. >> doctor, while not everybody listens to you health officials, to some of us you are heroes in this time and we are grateful for the work that you do. oregon state's health officer and epidemiologist. thank you, sir. i want to bring in a pulmonologist and affiliate assistant professor at the university of washington medical center. he is an nbc news and msnbc medical contributor and has been with us from the beginning as we have covered this coronavirus pandemic. dr. gupta, good to see you again. again, i mean, rachel said this about an hour ago in that it seems like we're in a time warp. it seems like we're having the same conversations again about ppe not getting the nursing homes about the federal government telling us the things we are seeing happening are not happening. in fact, the surgeon general of the united states has said that we have flattened the curve. i guess i just want to ask you, is that true?
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>> always good to see you. no, it's not true. you know, at this point, there is a few -- there is a few tools we have in our tool kit to deal with a public health crisis, one of those, the most powerful is messaging and consistent messaging from the top. from you have a privileged position as being u.s. surgeon general, you shouldn't be sitting next to the president in dallas yesterday saying the curve is flattening just as the next day headlines are saying texas is suffering from its highest daily infection rates ever since this pandemic began. the distortion of reality is mind numbing and it shouldn't come from the surgeon general. what happened to do no harm? so it is irresponsible. it angers a lot of us in public health on the front lines on the inpatient wards because we don't expect that from him. we expect him to tell the truth. and that's the problem there.
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here's the truth. 22 states are not flattening the curve. some of our most pop you laos, california and texas to same a few. we're seeing in arizona icu beds are not available. they're simply not available. i'm an icu doc. that's a nightmare scenario. this is a five alarm fire here and the surgeon general needs to alert us to that and that's why this is such a problem. >> why do you think this has happened? it had to be a month and a half or two months ago that you and i were talking about right here in new york and places in the northeast not having the hospital beds available and not having ventilators for people. we know you got hit earlier in seattle, in washington state. what's happened? this has fallen out of the news. the white house doesn't hold these coronavirus briefings anymore. they have just lost interest. >> i think you basically diagnosed the problem here. we haven't had consistent messaging and we need that messaging day in, day out because this takes time.
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the fact of the matter is we needed until the end of june to root this out. that time line got extended. so part of this is patience. we all understand. there is nobody here in the world -- the people that want normally are public health officials more than anything. i can tell you that. we worry if we open up too soon or in the wrong way, we're gong to have a much stricter lockdown and more outcomes when it comes to health, disease morbidity and mortality. things will look worse if we don't do it the right time around. the lack of patience as exacerbated by poor messaging at the top. that's why this is happening. we don't have the patience and the leadership to keep us on track. >> dr. gupta, thanks again for being it was. a pulmonologist and global health policy expert and affiliate assistant professor at the university of washington.
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we're about to hit a perfect storm of economic relief coming to an end at the time that bills have been paused. those bills start coming due again. it will disproportionately hurt minority and low-income communities. we'll talk about that on the other side. s. visit a store or go to t-mobile.com/55. there he is. oh, wow. you're doing, uh, you're doing really great with the twirling. dad, if you want to talk, i have a break at 3:00. okay, okay. i'm going. i'm gone.
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this virus is testing all of us. and it's testing the people on the front lines of this fight most of all. so abbott is getting new tests into their hands, delivering the critical results they need. and until this fight is over, we...will...never...quit. because they never quit. in an unprecedented crisis... a more than $10 billion cut to public education
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couldn't be worse for our schools and kids. laying off 57,000 educators, making class sizes bigger? c'mon. schools must reopen safely with resources for protective equipment, sanitizing classrooms, and ensuring social distancing. tell lawmakers and governor newsom don't cut our students' future. pass a state budget that protects our public schools. the stock market suffered its worst week this week since the start of the coronavirus pandemic in march. financial markets are suffering from a shift in sentiment this week as investors seem to acknowledge the risks to the economy from pandemic related shut-downs earlier this year and the prospect of a second wave of coronavirus infections. the federal reserve this week forecasted a slow economic recovery with employment still over 9% by the end of the year.
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and in a report to congress today, the fed warned that the most severe job losses caused by the pandemic are disproportionately impacting minorities and low page workers. the unemployment rate for black americans has tripled during the pandemic from 5.8% to 16.8%. that pain could worsen as emergency economic measures come to an end this summer. "politico" reports that the ban on evictions expires in a matter of weeks. black and latino people are twice as likely to rent as white people, so they would be the most endangered if the protection from the removal is ended. and buzzfeed notes this will coincide with the end of a valuable financial lifeline. on july 31st, the $600 federal unemployment payments going to people every week will end. many republicans want to replace them with nothing at all. so income for tens of millions of households is likely to nose dive in august. joining us now betsy stevenson, the chief economist in the obama administration as well as bradley hardy. he's a nonresident senior fellow in economic studies at the brookings institution. thanks to both of you for being
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with us. bradley, let me start with you. i have covered the fed for more than 20 years. i have never actually heard such a specific statement to say, the thing we all know and have been talking about for three months that people of color are generally speaking disproportionately hit hard in recessions, but in this particular case more so. >> absolutely. and this is just so troubling, ali. i'm glad you are covering this topic. look, we know for many years,
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many decades, we have seen the data. we know that black families are more likely to be working in low wage labor markets, frankly more likely to be on the front lines right now working if our grocery stores, our drugstores, working as social workers and health care workers, so they are overly exposed. right now i think this really calls for kind of a reappraisal of the social policies, how might we protect these families? how might we think about the social safety and housing assistance, liquidity, food assistance. all those things need to be on the table in the coming months. >> betsy, "the washington post" on june 4th wrote an article in which it said the black-white economic divide is as wide today as it was in 1968. in 1968 a typical middle class black hold add $6,674 in wealth compared with $70,786 for the typical middle class white household according to data from the historical consumer finances adjusted for inflation. in 2016 the typical black middle class household has $13,000 in
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death versus $149,703 for the white household, an even larger gap. you see other statistics that use different numbers, through the spread is the same. in the same way that white americans have seen the injustice that black americans face at the hands of police, do you think they are starting to see this, too, that the injustice occurs in economics, in policing, in social policy and in economic policy? >> we absolutely see disparities in the economy and in the experiences that people have in the labor market. you know, you just heard that black americans are disproportionately in lower wage jobs. and as a result, they tend to disproportionately have lower wage incomes, lower wage incomes lead to having less wealth. another reason to have less wealth is the statistic you
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started with. unemployment has tripled right now at the rate for black americans as for white americans. when they face higher rates of being unemployed, they're going to have to dig into their savings more just to get through tough times. it is going to make it hard to accumulate savings over time. and they have friends and families, neighbors and loved ones that are -- you know, when you have one in five, one in six, one in seven people in your community, those kinds of numbers, unemployed, it is not surprising people are spending everything they are bringing in to keep everybody afloat. that leads to further racial disparities down the line because it makes it harder to start a business, to make a leap to do the kinds of things you can do when you have a big cushion safety net to rely on. >> bradley, i think it might have been andres perry, i'm not sure where i got this particular stat from, but another way to look at this is you need the
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wealth of 11.5 median black households to create the wealth of one white household. that's got to do with wages. it's got to do with property values. it's got to do with homeownership rates. at some juncture while there were a lot of candidates, there were people putting forward real policies that were going to change that. how does that get fixed when the protests die down? when we get passed this moment and get passed a trump presidency? this has been with us for decades. what do we do to solve that? >> sure. it is a great question. and to your point, this has been years and years, decades and decades, hundreds of years really in the making. so frankly i think public policy was part of the problem caused this racial wealth gaps, inequitable access to home loans, inequitable access to the educational system, historical labor market discrimination, that's the public policy that has led to this moment and i think policy and robust interventions are where we can go moving forward.
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so, for example, you can think about programs including baby bonds. i think senator booker has proposed those. you know, there is quite a bit of great energy in terms of thinks about ways to promote wealth across the population. you disproportionally help black americans. frankly revamping the nation's safety net. you know, so many black families and families in general have so much of their monthly budgets taken up in rising housing costs, for example, that frankly they're drowning. and, so, you know, we do have to take this moment. we do have to think of it bolder and frankly this is part of the expectation that, you know, frankly, families expect economic security. they also expect security to their law enforcement systems. i think when all those things break down, you have -- you have
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real cause for concern. >> thank you to both of you for joining me tonight. these are important discussions that we need to continue to have even when the heat is off of this topic because for these americans of color, the heat never stops being on them. betsy, thanks a lot for being with me. bradley hardy, thank you. all right. coming up, a new poll shows that the black lives matter movement is now a majority opinion in america. for the better part of the , i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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for the better part of the last 18 days, hundreds of thousands of americans across the country have united to protest the killing of george floyd. a new poll shows that a majority of americans, 53% support black lives matter. that's reflected in the demonstrations in cities like new york, washington, d.c. and los angeles but also in suburbs, small towns and rural areas like garden county, kansas. as the only african-american
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republican in the senate put it, without question, this is different. it feels different. it sounds different. the protesters are different. i look out my window in washington, and i see 10 protesters. 7 of them are white and 3 of them are black. former national director of public engagement for senator elizabeth warren's presidential campaign. thank you for being with us. i was out on the streets for several days, for about a week, and i saw what the senator is talking about. there are lots of people out there, a lot of black people, but a lot of white people, too. something does feel different this time. i was talking to eric garner's mother, and she thinks something feels different, too. what do you make of it? >> you know, i think this movement is finally catching up to the conversations that we have known as from our culture experts. leading efforts in hollywood.
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you are seeing more images of black lives, but this has been a consistent effort over the lives showing that black lives are actually to be dignified. and the reality is more people are understanding that instead of trying to reform a policing system that has been around for hundreds of years to oppress black people, i think it is time to move resources into communities, whether it is health care, education, mental health services, domestic violence intervention because we know those are proven solutions to actually create more safe communities and healthy communities and it's time to actually get rid of the policing system as we know it. >> i'm going to ask my control room to put up various charts and polls we've got, all of which show the same thing. first of all, americans understand that african-americans face something different at the hands of police than white people do. support for black lives matter has increased according to this chart you are looking at, as much as it has in the last two weeks, as much in the last two weeks. a majority of americans support the black lives matter movement by a 28% margin up from a 17% margin before the recent waves
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of protests started. at some juncture, i'm getting e-mails from every business i have anything to do with. they're actually saying the words, "black lives matter," in their e-mails, in their statements. starbucks is now saying employees can wear black lives matter insignia if they need to. it is symbolic, but it means something when people are understanding that to say black lives matter, to have that shirt, to have that sign on your lawn isn't actually a controversial matter. >> right. what you are seeing is that people are actually taking action. and if people who -- the people in the organizations and the infrastructures that have power within this country are actually using their power to shift the conversation to black lives, i think it is encouraging to see more white people out there on the streets protesting because black folks, we have been protesting from the very beginning since some of our
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ancestors have been here under enslavement. fortunately the minneapolis city council voted to figure out a way to divest in the police department. you see los angeles reducing their police budget by 100 million to reinvest in communities. it is still going to take a long time, a sustained effort for us to actually have major nationwide whims. you see that in so many movements that have overwhelming support. always good to see you. the former national director of public engagement for the warren 2020 campaign. coming up, we'll reflect on the remarkable speed and scope
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of police reform that started to happen in the 18 days since george floyd uttered the words i can't breathe. (burke) at farmers, we know how nice it is to save on your auto policy. but it's even nicer knowing that if this happens... ...or this.... ...or even this... ...we've seen and covered it. so, get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ alice loves the scent of gain so much, she wished there was a way to make it last longer. say hello to your fairy godmother alice. and long-lasting gain scent beads.
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people of all backgrounds, genders and races have come together to demand change. honor them. honor george and make the necessary changes that make law enforcement the solution and not the problem. hold them accountable when they do something wrong. teach them what it means to treat people with empathy and respect. >> that was the brother of george floyd testifying on wednesday, during a hearing of a landmark police reform pibill. that's 1 of the 18 moves that have taken place since george
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floyd's death. joining us is the director of the black law enforcement alliance. you were on tv as much as i was when these protests were going on. you were creating context around the things we have to do when we got through the immediacy of police and protesters. in minneapolis, where this all started, they seem to have taken some strides in the right direction. >> absolutely. i think what's been happening at warp speed, has really been a push for reform. minneapolis being the catalyst for much of the activity going on, from the governmental response, immediately terminating the police officers, governmental response, demand ing additional prosecutions in records to themselves.
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and issues in departments. that's going to be significant, around this nation, that move alone. but then, move into new york and the legislation that was signed today, and the disclosure of police officers disciplinary record and banning the cho chokeholds and et cetera. and then, in congress, the house of representatives, all of this in the course of 2 1/2, 3 weeks, is an amazing progress. >> talk to me about the union situation because this has been a tricky and fraught one for me personally because i was in support of unions and the things they allowed their members to do in collective bargaining and being treated unfairly. police unions is a bit of a problem in keeping bad apples on the job. >> yeah. like you, i'm a supporter of the unions. always have been. i come from a union family.
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i think what's happened in regards to law enforcement and police unions, in specifically, over the time and decades, they have been allowed to influence and infiltrate machiningment in agencies. they're no longer just negotiating on pay and benefits, but how discipline is handed out. what kind of information is disclosed and other operational issues. and they've been empowered by giving you the access. i think what's time and what is going to happen, is different jurisdictions are going to say, we can continue to talk about the health benefits, the pay, the salaries, et cetera, but we won't have you negotiating with us on how we mete our discipline and other operational issues. >> and in fact, in the case of minneapolis, that's an interesting matter. there's a reform-minded police
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chief. but the president of the union is the one to whom the police officers turn for guidance on how to do things. that's created a conflict in how the department is run. >> yeah. absolutely. keep in mind, the unions, in large part, are the ones that guard the quote/unquote police culture. the unions are on the forefront of keeping everybody in line. keeping everybody in laockstep. keeping us in the bris brutality. if you look at buffalo, new york, and that's about keeping the culture intact and maintaining power and control. but time is changing and reform is in the air. >> you helped us understand the difficult times, marq.
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marq claxton is the director of black lives alliance. i'm ali velshi. you can hope you'll join us too. "the 11th hour" with brian williams begins right now. and good evening once again. day 1,240 of this trump administration. 144 days to go until the presidential election. donald trump is now trying to keep the outrage over the killing of george floyd and the calls for justice from engulfing his presidency and his campaign for re-election. many inside and outside the administration have conceded his response thus far has been out of sync with much of the nation. he has declared himself the president of law and order, sometimes just tweeting out that phrase.

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