tv The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC June 29, 2022 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
something more, as the 11th hour gets underway on this wednesday night. good evening, i'm alicia menendez, in for stephanie ruhle. after days a very public invitations to come talk, the january 6th committee tonight has issued a formal subpoena for pat cipellone. the move comes just one day after that devastating testimony from cassidy hutchinson, who -- at the former trump white house counsel's actions ahead of him and during the insurrection. in a statement, the committee writes its investigation has, quote, revealed evidence that mr. cipollone repeatedly raised legal and other concerns about president trump's activities on january 6th and in the days that preceded it. the panel notes cipollone did sit for an informal interview on april 13th. but goes on to say that, unfortunately, however, you
have declined to cooperate with us further, including by providing on the record testimony. we are left with no choice but to issue you this subpoena. earlier this evening, committee member adam schiff had this message for cipollone. >> he ought to show just a small portion of the courage that cassidy hutchinson displayed. he needs to come out of hiding. he needs to do his patriotic duty. >> as we mentioned, cipollone was prominently featured in yesterday's testimony. >> mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy. please keep in touch with me. we are going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> and do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the 6th, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count.
>> hutchinson also testified abt cipollone's efforts january 6th to get the president to urge his supporters to end the violent. violence. she described him, pleading with her boss, former white house chief of staff mark meadows, to intervene. >> i remember pat saying to him, something to the effect of the rioters have got into the capital capitol mark. we need to get down now. and see the president now. and mark said, he doesn't want to do anything, pat. and pat said something to the effect of, and very clearly, had said this to mark -- something to the effect of, mark, something needs to be done, or people are going to die and the blood is going to be on your effing hands. i remember pat saying something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more. they are literally calling for the vice president to be effing hung. >> and mark had responded, something to the effect of, you
heard him pat, he thinks mike deserves it. he doesn't think they are doing anything wrong. >> yesterday's hearing is raising new questions about potential legal consequences for the former president and for mark meadows, who is already facing contempt charges after defying the subpoena from the committee. according to cassidy hutchinson's testimony, both meadows and trump were well aware of the possibility of violence on january 6th. she testified trump a new new people in the crowd were armed, yet demanded security be eased to allow more people to attend his rally. and she testified meadows had been warned about weapons on the morning of january 6th. >> i remember tony mentioning knives, guns, in the form of pistols and rifles, bear spray, body armor, spears and flagpoles. i remember tony finishing his explanation and it taking a few seconds for mark to say his
name, [inaudible] and i almost said, mark, did you hear him? and then mark chimed in and was like, all right, anything else? still looking down at his phone. and he looked up and said, conversation where i heard the president say something to the effect of, i don't effing care that they have weapons. they are not here to hurt me, take the effing mags away. let my people in, they can march to the capitol from here, let the people, and take the effing mags away. >> hutchinson also testified that her boss was hoping for a presidential pardon. today, his spokesperson told nbc news, meadows never sought a pardon, and never planned to. not surprisingly, cassidy hutchinson's credibility now being attacked by trump supporters. late today, her lawyers issued this statement saying, quote, ms. hutchinson stands by all the testimony she provided
yesterday, under oath to the select committee, to investigate the january six committee on the united states capitol. just a short time ago, the reagan library, committee vice chair liz cheney spoke about the investigation and its meaning for hours democracy. >> at this moment, we are confronting a domestic threat that we have never faced before. and that is, a former president who is attempting to unravel the foundations of our constitutional republic. >> and he is aided by republican leaders and elected officials who made themselves willing hostages to this dangerous and irrational man. >> with that, let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel, jacqueline alemany, congressional investigations reporter for the washington post, luke broadwater, pulitzer prize-winning congressional reporter for the new york times and nyu law school professor melissa murray. she was a law clerk for sonia sotomayor on the federal bench
before her nomination to the supreme court. it is good to see you. luke, let's start with you. you and your colleague maggie haberman a reporting on the cipollone subpoena tonight. he has been resisting former testimony, as liz cheney has been ramping up the public pressure. what do we know about his willingness to cooperate now? >> we know that the committee's subpoena puts extra -- leverage on mr. cipollone to come in and testify. my understanding is that as we speak there are negotiations that have started about what he would be willing to talk about, were he to come in. apparently, he's not willing to talk about anything -- direct conversations with donald trump. and [inaudible] some other topics could perhaps be on the table. that similar to an arrangement that other lawyers for donald trump have agreed to. they have not talked about direct conversations with the president but have been able to talk about other things. pat cipollone did come in and
to meet with the committee informally. months ago. but it was not transcribed, it was not under oath. and they really want -- they think he is such a key witness. he was in the room for some of the biggest decisions in the buildup to january 6th. conversations about seizing voting machines, conversations where bill barr offered to resign after he said there was not widespread election fraud. these conversations that cassidy hutchinson relayed, where he and mark meadows are going in and out of the oval office and discussing violence that was underway, whether trump would call it off. so, he's an extremely key witness. they want him to testify. they want the american people to hear from him. and we will see whether the subpoena now puts the pressure needed to force him to come and make his comments public. >> jacqui, i'm curious what you are hearing from your sources on the hill and at the committee. cipollone was described by hutchinson as one of the last
firewalls to stop trump on january 6th. was yesterday's hearing part of a strategy, then, to justify a subpoena? >> it in part was. the committee is [inaudible] behind the scenes very detailed strategy on how to force witnesses who have not so far cooperated with the committee to come forth and change their minds. the timing of the hearing was in part, due to some of the security threats, a concern from lawmakers on the committee, that cassidy hutchinson might back out of her commitment to testifying publicly, because of just how many security threats and how much pressure she was under. but also, in order to potentially spur the cooperation of other people like pat cipollone -- as luke noted the committee has been in negotiations with him for quite some time now. and there have been times in the past we are individuals in trump's orbit have simply
needed a subpoena as cover, in order for them to finally cooperate. the bill stepien, for example, was initially supposed to testify publicly and he claimed it was due to being subpoenaed by the committee. that being said, people that we spoke to who know pat well said that they find it very unlikely that he is going to testify, that he is a real believer in executive privilege. he thought the court ruling on don mcgahn was wrong, which ultimately compelled mcgahn to appear before the house and testify. so, certainly curious to see how the negotiations and the parameters of the committee and that's lawyers set pan out. >> jacqueline alemany, it's minor standing that you have some new reporting on trump and cipollone, in light of the investigation. what is their relationship like now? >> yeah. their relationship is not as amicable as some others who have continued to work directly
for him or even worked closely with him at mar-a-lago. the former president does have a small staff around. some of them, former staff from the white house. but cipollone is not one of them, the two have remained cordial, though. he has not been a public critic of the former president. that being said, he was the no man, if there was one, in the white house. and the former president didn't appreciate that. he oftentimes tsai did and the scolded and sort of dismissed what pat was advising him. and a legal advice that he was providing. but ultimately, i think cassidy hutchinson made clear in her testimony yesterday that, to at least a certain extent, some of pat cipollone warnings worked. >> melissa murray, i'd love to hear from you on how you view this argument from cipollone. that he simply cannot reveal any of his conversations with former president trump.
>> alicia, this is a long-standing play from those in the trump white house, when they've been called upon to relay information from the time the trump white house, they say it is limited to two too executive privilege. executive privilege does exist but it's not an unfettered, unqualified privilege. it is typically limited to those kinds of communications between the president and his close staff that relate to diplomacy, military matters, things that are really high level. sort of ordinary things, things that go to questions around general mindset or milieu around the office at the time, those would not necessarily be subject to executive privilege around the time. there is going to be a fight around what cipollone testifies to and what he is offering. that will be basically some of these long-standing questions that we've seen about the scope nature of the executive privilege of asserting. >> luke, i believe you also have some new reporting on what doj did and did not know about cassidy hutchinson's testimony.
what was that? >> right. so, yesterday, as much of the world, us included, we're sitting in stunned astonishment as we watched the revelation after revelation come out from cassidy hutchinson at the witness table so where the department of justice prosecutors. we understand from some sources that the prosecutors working on this investigation, on the justice department side we're watching very closely. and they were surprised, very much surprised, at the testimony they were hearing. this gets to a dispute that has been going on for a while, between the justice department and the january 6th committee. the justice department wants the committee to turn over every transcript they have done, with all of these 1000 witnesses, every single one that they have transcribed. and the committee has resisted that for a number of reasons. they have said they will work with the justice department,
but on our timetable, perhaps next month when we are finish finished these hearings, we will have more time to go through this request and accommodate the justice department. and the justice department is -- some of the lawyers are feeling frustrated by that. because they want to have these transcripts as soon as possible, as they work on their cases. and at the same time, some members of the committee have called on the justice department to work faster, be more aggressive going after donald trump and some of his top allies. and so they are saying, help us help you. and so i think we will see, eventually, a deal here, with where these transcripts to come over. but it is going to me be -- probably be a bit more time before we see it come together. >> melissa, speaking of this relationship between the committee and the -- doj david rohde of the new yorker has written about how the [ justice department is handling its january 6th investigation in light of all these hearings. take a listen. >> there are weekly meetings where attorney general garland is updated by top officials in
the justice department about the latest information and and the investigation as a whole, a sprawling investigation, but including evidence against donald trump -- there's no decision yet on whether there is enough evidence. but garland is pushing. he has signed off on a letter that asks for more from all the transcripts of the january six committee. that was a few weeks ago. and as you mentioned, there's been a flurry of searches, of subpoenas being issued, phones were seized. there is movement inside the justice department. and again, i'm hearing from former officials, this new evidence will change their calculus. but this was a big moment yesterday. >> melissa, what should we be watching for from merrick garland? >> i think again, any type of movement, any more incidences where we are seeing rates, for example, like the raid we saw on jeff clark -- the other day, or more subpoenas for phone records, and things of that nature. but again, this has been, and continues to be, a very slow, and deliberative process by design, i think. it
is a doj that decided that it is going to come in and restore morale, restore the institutional donned pendants of this agency, and again, getting bogged down and what can be derived as a partisan witch hunt is the last thing they want. they want everything buttoned, up all of the t's crossed, all of the eyes dotted. >> this was a big week for the committee, what is next in the investigations on the hearings? >> that is a very good question. as of right now in this very moment, there are no hearing scheduled for next week, but the following week there are potentially two more hearings that are going to take place. one of those hearings being focused on the 187 minutes that trump did not respond to the violence taking place at the capitol. so, from when the pro-trump rioters first reached security up until he finally issued a statement condemning them to go home and
language that was not quite that forceful. and then another hearing focused on far-right extremists and the culture of political violence on the right. that one expected to be led by congressman jamie raskin and stephanie murphy. but it is quite possible the committee is going to completely recalibrate, especially if pat cipollone does come forward and testify's behind closed doors. it is going to give the committee a whole new hour of videotaped depositions to potentially use at their disposal. they are also currently still conducting closed door deposition just today. they had the cfo of the trump campaign and who sat down and gave investigators some behind the scenes details for several hours according to people involved with the investigation. so this is very much a live investigation, and things are changing really by the hour.
>> i think we saw some of that this week. jacqueline alemany, luke broadwater, melissa murray, thank you for getting us started. coming, up one of our next guests says the former president was essentially sending a loaded missile to the congress. the security issues raised by this week's testimony just ahead. later, the headlines of recent days are already having on the midterms, the 11th hour just getting underway on a wednesday night. a wednesday night.
we've been streaming all day from every room. the power and speed of this super-sonic wifi from xfinity is incredible. mom! mass speeds was my idea, remember? get minion net, with speeds of up to one minion bite per hour. [ low screaming ] but that was an epic fail. with xfi we can stream, share, swipe, like... impress your mom with super-sonic wifi. it's unbeatable internet for a more unbeatable gru. i mean, you.
psst. girl. you can do better. ok. wow. i'm right here. and you can do better, too. at least with your big name wireless carrier. with xfinity mobile, you can get unlimited for $30 per month on the nation's most reliable 5g network. they can even save you hundreds a year on your wireless bill, over t-mobile, at&t and verizon. wow. i can do better. yes, you can. i can do better, too. break free from the big three and switch to xfinity mobile. >> well the details are being
disputed, the broader narrative is not being disputed. mr. ornato did not have as clear of memories from this period of time as i would say ms. hutchinson did, if that is a fair assessment there. we are always happy to have folks who have recalled things to come back and talk to us. >> after cassidy hutchinson's stunning testimony, the secret service says its agents are also available to testify under oath. but there is no word yet on whether former white house deputy chief of staff, are not, oh -- the secret service agent in charge of trump's detail on january 6th will do that. we welcome back carol leonnig, investigative reporter for the washington post. she wrote the book on the u. s. secret service. and clint watts, army veteran, former fbi special
agent, and a distinguished research fellow at the foreign research institute. carol, i want you to give us some background. who is robert engel, what do we need to know about the secret service during the trump presidency? >> great questions, and so concise as you so cleanly are. first off, i will say alicia, the thing that you really need to know, we all need to keep in mind about the secret service during the trump administration, is that president of president there can be some loyalists that stick by a particular president. donald trump politicized the secret service in a way that no other president had before. the most similar situation might have been president nixon, who tried to use secret service agents as spies on some of his political opponents, candidates for president, he tried to install
agents he thought were loyal to him to sort of catch them in the act of something bad, and report back to him. donald trump politicized this agency by installing, as his white house deputy chief of staff, the former head of his secret service detail. that person, tony ornato, eventually basically becomes the de facto director of the secret service. he is the one who goes to photo ops, special things that are going to help the president get elected, get done by the secret service, angle was the secret services detail leader for the president, and at this point working for tony firenado. not in name, but in reality, working for him. >> i would love for you to weigh in on how unusual that
is. i also want to talk about the fact that you have the weighted challenge the veracity of yesterday's testimony. but we are not getting a lot of pushback on the actual security situation that day. i wonder what you make of that. >> i think that there will be some written details, usually in any event like january 6th, there will be an actual right up you can refer to. there will be some setup that were discussed during the hearing. it is something that would prevent weapons from getting close to the president, or anywhere near any government buildings. those plan should be somewhere. i think it would be something that would be subpoenaed by the committee if they wanted to get more details on what that plan was, and why it did or did not follow protocol. i think separately, as carol talked about, throughout any presidential administration, there is quite a bit that goes on between the secret service detail, and the very person they are willing to give their life to to protect. i don't think that is unusual. but what i do think is unusual
is in this trump administration. how people were pulled out of acting government positions, pushed into water really just white house staff positions, and really the integrity of these institutions. it was a consistent theme throughout all of the trump administration whether it was the department of defense, law enforcement, whatever it might be, trump administration was always trying to bring them in to be their law enforcement, their military guys, and that is what caused so many problems across u. s. government. >> carol, to this whole conversation about what is usual and unusual, the new york times points at the willingness of the agents to provide potentially critical details about the person they were protecting marks a rare turn for an agency that has historically prioritized the secrecy of presidents, even in the face of investigations. carol, just how unusual is it for the secret service to offer up any specifics about what it does? >> you know, i have to grin a little bit about this, because over the decades, the secret service and many of its directors starting actually with the whitewater and monica
lewinsky investigation under president clinton, have agents who share any details, any confidence they learn at the side, or the shoulder of the president. the goal is smart, it is you do not want a president thinking that the guys who are right next to him are absorbing his secrets, and gossiping about them later. you want the confidence of those individuals because you want those individuals close. but i grin because the secret service does not want any detail shared, except apparently those who are flattering to the president, and flattering to the secret service. that is one of the stunners for me in exploring this agency. they did not want any detail agents interviewed by kenneth starr about whether or not the president had lied about being alone with monica lewinsky, which he had, and they don't want people sharing any details about things that are unflattering to the president trump. but here, now, we have an agency that says
wait a minute, we dispute cassidy hutchinson's account, which she makes clear's secondhand, and we are willing to say that we were in a car with the president, and no such attack took place, the president didn't do anything except get angry that he wasn't allowed to travel to the capital as he insisted on doing, and i just want to say one more thing about in some respects how well this story is salacious, and the source of amazing media treatment, including by my newspaper, the things that cassidy hutchinson said that she witnessed firsthand are the most dramatic. the president attacking a federal officer is a shocker, a shocker if true. but the president telling the secret service not to mag people who had firearms because he could speak to them, have a better rally, and then send them to the capitol armed is really the undisputed stunner. >> i would add a layer to that,
clint, which is all the talk about the oath keepers, hearing the word proud boy, closer to the planning of the january 6th rally, when mr. giuliani would be around. members of those groups are already facing charges of seditious conspiracy. do you think this testimony winds in? >> i absolutely do and there are two parts, we had seen from the documentary footage and evidence over the last two weeks, that the proud boys and the oath keepers [inaudible] linked up in a garage. there's obviously some sort of coordination and planning. and both of the indictments, when you read them, the text communications that have come forward through it clearly show they have some sort of informant on the inside providing some sort of information. or they have worked with someone who is a cooperating
witness for reduced charges. and then you start to expand that out. the most key person to me was -- which was out in the open on january 5th and 6th -- is roger stone. showed up consistently there. then we also saw consistent discussions during hutchinson's testimony on michael flynn. when you look at those people who are at the rally, those that were connected to these praetorian guard type troops groups, guarding and leading them into trump rallies into an around the white house and into an around the capitol, those are the key linkages around this point because they had not been flushed out in the indictments that we had seen in the doj. i thought one of those things from the hearing that is probably the most important are these connections between the white house and these militia groups. i think that will get fleshed out in the coming weeks and that's really where the ties are. we are talking about an insurrection, we are talking about violence. i'm much more interested in that and whether there were some sort of argument in a sedan with the president. >> also, part of where the continued threat is. carol leonnig and clint watts, thank you both so much.
(woman) oh. oh! hi there. you're jonathan, right? the 995 plan! yes, from colonial penn. your 995 plan fits my budget just right. excuse me? aren't you jonathan from tv, that 995 plan? yes, from colonial penn. i love your lifetime rate lock. that's what sold me. she thinks you're jonathan, with the 995 plan. -are you? -yes, from colonial penn. we were concerned we couldn't get coverage, but it was easy with the 995 plan. -thank you. -you're welcome. i'm jonathan for colonial penn life insurance company. this guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance plan is our #1 most popular plan. it's loaded with guarantees. if you're age 50 to 85, $9.95 a month buys whole life insurance with guaranteed acceptance.
you cannot be turned down for any health reason. there are no health questions and no medical exam. and here's another guarantee you can count on: guaranteed lifetime coverage. your insurance can never be cancelled. just pay your premiums. guaranteed lifetime rate lock. your rate can never increase. pardon me, i'm curious. how can i learn more about this popular 995 plan? it's easy. just call the toll-free number for free information. (soft music) ♪ >> i believe that president
use it to the fullest extent possible, to defend everybody civil, economic and human rights. >> in the wake of the supreme court overturning roe v. wade, some democrats are calling for immediate action. but there is disagreement within the party about how aggressively they should respond. with us for more, former florida republican congressman carlos curbelo, a member of the republican conference for two years during the trump presidency. and democratic strategist strategist xochitl hinojosa, the managing director of bully pulpit interactive and the former communications director and senior adviser for the dnc. xochitl hinojosa, after the roe v. wade announcement, you had some polling showing democrats with a seven-point edge in the midterms. that same poll found the democrats were more animated by this issue than republicans, so then, explain to me, why the hesitation from some in the party to really go after this issue? >> i think that the polling is right, alicia. i think what will happen is that this will motivate our
base. i think that whenever democrats or any party is in power, what ends up happening is that there ends up being low enthusiasm. you have to spend money in order to get those voters out. you have to prove to them that you have delivered in the last two years when you've been in power. so, in this instance, what is happening is that this will definitely help our voters. would i will say about this democratic party and administration, is that while president biden's said that he is not for expanding the court, he's doing everything possible to ensure that we are protecting a woman's right to choose. and on reproductive rights. i think that he is taking aggressive action, he gave a speech, he saw the vice president out there recently. and they will continue to be out there. number one thing that democrats could do ahead of the midterms, though, is really talk about how elections matter. and what happened in the supreme court last week is exactly a result of the 2016 election. and they need to make a clear message, ahead of the midterms,
saying, if you don't turn out, it could get worse. we need to continue to put democrats in power to ensure that this doesn't happen and so we can restore roe v. wade. >> carlos, let's talk about the backdrop of these midterms. you have 61% of americans who have either little or no confidence in the supreme court. what does that mean, carlos, for our democracy? >> it is a big problem, alicia. the court, in the past, had more credibility, more respect, more trust than the political branches of government. and now, this court, that makes big decisions for the entire country, he starting to feel like another partisan entity. so, that is a big deal. it motivates people on both sides. so, you will see some conservatives turning out to maybe reward republicans for shaping the court. but i do give democrats an edge when it comes to just motivation and urgency to vote. because, obviously, they are on
the losing side. and that's typically what happens. the party whose policies lose tends to get energized. i will say, more broadly speaking, democrats also have to worry about centrists and independent voters, especially in suburban america. and that's where they should highlight the bipartisan wins that joe biden has been able to sign into law, namely the bipartisan infrastructure bill and, of course, the recently passed gun reform bill, which is historic in nature, for many reasons. >> xochitl, here's the thing -- i go back to that sound from representative alexandria ocasio-cortez. where she says, democrats have to have fight, something that they are fighting for. and they have to be able to go into midterms, saying to their voters, we delivered something. right? and beyond just policy winds, winds we understand that these rights were under attack and here are the steps we took to get it. and it cannot be amorphous, right? this, just go vote message, it begins to feel generic. i think that's part of why you
had senator warren coming out and saying, give us two u.s. senate seats and we will be able to deliver for you, right? it makes it much more specific. what do you think it is that this administration can actually do and can actually deliver around choice, between now and midterms? >> i think that you had secretary becerra out there and you had administration officials who talked about the tools that we use in the administration. i think the president needs to ensure that he continues to talk about this issue. yes, he gave one speech, but he needs to go out in this community and really listen to people about how roe v. wade is impacting their daily life, what they can do. you heard secretary becerra talk about medication -- medication and abortion before , making sure that that is available to people. and you heard the justice department say that they will take aggressive action. but i do think that president biden does need to be out there a bit more when it comes to this issue. and it cannot be forgotten.
and i think alicia, one thing that people tend to forget is that the supreme court is not done here. we have a number of different cases that are going to come out shortly. we know that daca a sort of in the courts right now. we don't know with the future of daca is going to be. so, looking forward, it's not just roe, it's a number of issues that are going to impact our values and democratic values and the reasons why they put us in office. and this administration and democrats need to be clear. listen, this could get worse, the supreme court could potentially take away daca or other things could happen. there are other consequences if you don't vote for democrats. >> carlos, i only have about a minute left. but there was some incredible sound from liz cheney tonight, saying, we have to choose, because republicans cannot both be loyal to donald trump and little to the constitution. i wonder if you think that's the choice that's before republicans today? >> that's certainly right, alicia. liz cheney has really become
the conscience of the republican party, holding all republicans accountable, putting the truth out there and having them face it and say, are you going to -- and reject donald trump's lies. her voice is so critical at this moment. she has a big primary coming up in a few weeks. we will see what happens there. but regardless of what happens in her primary, liz cheney has delivered a great gift to this country. the truth, from a republican, from a bona fide conservative and she is really holding all of her colleagues accountable. many are failing the test. >> carlos curbelo and xochitl hinojosa, thank you both so much. coming up, our own yamiche alcindor just talked to hillary clinton about the supreme court's decision to overturn roe. why she is calling the move arrogant and ignorant, when the 11th hour continues.
we're hearing from hillary clinton tonight, at the festival in colorado. former secretary of state delivered scathing criticism of the supreme court's reversal of roe. joining discussion with our own -- . >> it is the most arrogant, misreading of history and law you could ever find. it is so narrow, and baseless. it was not only ignorant, but almost dismissive to the point of contempt for women's lives
and choices. and the difficulties that women of all backgrounds -- joining us now from aspen is yamiche alcindor -- yamiche, powerful words there from the former secretary of state. what else did you hear about the decision? >> secretary clinton really delivered a full condemnation of the supreme court decision overturning roe v. wade that was putting women's life at risk. it was really undermining women's right to choose. what they do with their own bodies. she said it was dangerous. and i want to show you what you told me about this. >> you have those who are trying to go after other rights,
and make, maybe they are going to go after ivf, ieds, contraception more generally. that is going to cause a reaction. and people will say is this america? where some go baseless democrat, or legislator, is deciding what's right for me and my family? then i think you'll see the reaction. how long that takes? i don't know. >> she also talks about the fact that really there could end up being a federal ban on abortion. and women should not feel protected. she says that democrats have to mobilize, get ready to push back and restore in some places at least, abortion rights. >> we are so much in this interview. i wish we could play this entire thing. but i want to get to this point. senator clinton was especially critical of justice thomas. what does she tell you? >> she signaled out clarence thomas by name. of course reminding people that his opinion that was attached to this decision overturning
roe v. wade, talked about, whether or not, talked about whether the court would undo same-sex marriage. even contraception for married couples. so she was saying that people need to pay attention for clarence thomas. this idea that he could have the other judges get along with him and that peoples rights can be taken care of and other areas. she says women should not be penalized for the 13th or 14th amendment. looking at this original idea, looking at the constitution in the original form. and he simply run in his opinion. >> you talked about the 2024 elections, the question of president biden running for reelection. what were the thoughts on that? >> alicia, this is really interesting. i asked her, the question that democrats have really been asking democrats all across
this country. would you endorse president biden if he ran again for president in 2024? the white house has been signaling that president biden wants to run. and her answer at first was not clear. he said, of course he's done great things, he's or sitting president. but i have to push and say would you adores him? she said of course he is the sitting president. if he is the nominee, i will endorsed him. and some of the party say that he was believe that he was a bridge. and he would let donald trump and he would then let other people in the party into the office and let that is one. i should also tell you, i pressed her on whether or not she was running for 24. because after this decision there were couple people wondering whether clinton 2024 might happen. she looked at me, laughed and said absolutely not. >> you press her on many things. the conversation was excellent top to bottom. yamiche alcindor thank you. as always, and we should note that nbc universally news group is the media partner for the aspen ideas festival. coming up, we're learning more
i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford,
a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54, what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? also $9.95 a month. i just turned 80, what's my price? $9.95 a month for you too. if you're age 50 to 85, call now about the #1 most popular whole life insurance plan available through the colonial penn program. it has an affordable rate starting at $9.95 a month. no medical exam, no health questions. your acceptance is guaranteed. and this plan has a guaranteed lifetime rate lock so your rate can never go up for any reason. so call now for free information and you'll also get this free beneficiary planner. and it's yours free just for calling. so call now for free information.
people -- people -- >> the last thing before we go tonight. tried a tragedy yet again in texas. dozens of migrants were found dead in a sweltering tractor trailer on monday, in san antonio. today, the confirmed death toll reached 53. officials are calling it the that leads case of human smuggling in united states history. fire chief charles hood was on the scene monday. >> we have 50 or 60 people that were inhumanely stuffed in the back of a truck, with no water, no air conditioning. no means for ventilation. and they suffered, they suffered before they died. >> more victims, some of them children. still being treated at hospitals. according to a mexican immigration official, the driver attempted to escape the scene by attempting to be one of the survivors.
but now the justice department says that he and three others have been charged in relation. to the deadly incident. here is nbc's morgan chesky with more. >> among the dead, for for hondurans, including two brothers, alejandro and fernando. today their mother mourning their loss. she says they were anxious but excited. for a future they could work to build their mom a new home. mexican authorities cooperating with investigators are painting a grim picture of the deadly journey. after crossing the border in laredo, mexican officials say at 2:45 pm monday, the truck passed through a border patrol checkpoint in encino, texas. -- identified by mexican authorities as a now detained u.s. citizen who jim drove through catahoula, for stopping 146 miles later in san antonio on a 100-degree day. >> two brothers, anxious but excited.
mourners have started to put candles, flowers, bottled water near the site where the truck was found on monday. in honor of those no longer here. on that note i wish you a good night from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news. thank you for staying up late. we will see you at the end of tomorrow! >> tonight on all in -- the 45th president actually participated in a violent coup to overthrow democracy. >> the president said something to the effect of, i am the effing president. take me up to the capitol now. >> tonight, the stunning reality of donald trump's role in january six and the committee's new subpoena for his white house counsel with congressman adam schiff. then -- >> i've decided that i should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works. >> get a great effing criminal defense lawyer, you are going to need it.
>> we are going to get charged with every crime imaginable -- >> asha rangappa and chuck rosenberg on the consciousness of guilt jumping off the screen at these hearings and what the department of justice is doing about it. and how donald trump and his mob dusted off a pre-existing american script to try to pull off their insurrection when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. it did not seem like there could possibly be any secrets left, that there could be possibly be new have literally shocking details about the ex ex-president's plot to end american democracy. and yet, oh my, there is. yesterday's historic testimony from cassidy hutchison, and advisor, to chief of staff mark meadows, forced everyone to update their basic understanding of what it was we saw in the period leading up to and during the insurrection on january 6th, both for donald trump and the people who supported his attempts to end the peaceful transfer of power.