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tv   The January 6th Hearings The House Investigates  MSNBC  July 2, 2022 3:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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who loses 138 pounds in nine months? i did! golo's a lifestyle change and you make the change and it stays off. that does it for me, thank you (soft music) for watching, i will see you back here tomorrow at 5 pm eastern. we have a few special guests tomorrow evening. representative james clyburn joins us plus, we will welcome democratic political consultant james carville. again, that is sunday at 5 pm. american voices with alicia menendez will return next weekend. next is a re-air of this week's january six hearing, featuring cassidy hutchinson in its entirety.
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>> pursuant to house regulation ten, the chair announces the committee's approval to release deposition material presented during this hearing. good afternoon. in our hearings over the previous weeks, the select committee has laid out the details of a multi part pressure campaign driven by the former president aimed at overturning the results of the 2020 presidential election and blocking the transfer of power. we have shown that this effort was based on a lie, a lie that the election was stolen, candid by why spread throughout of donald trump's big lie. in the weeks ahead, the committee will hold additional hearings about how donald trump
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summoned a mob of his supporters to washington, spurred them to march on the capitol and failed to take meaningful action to quell the violence as it was unfolding on january six. however, in recent days, the select committee has been paying new information, dealing with what was going on in the white house on january six and in the days prior, specific detailed information about what the former president and his top aides were doing and saying in this critical hours. first handy tails of what transpired in office at the white house chief of staff, just steps from the oval office, as threats of iran's became clear and violent ultimately descended on the capitol in the attack on american democracy. it's important that the american people hear that
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information immediately. that is why in consultation with the vice chair, i have recalled the committee for today's hearing. as you have seen and heard in our earlier hearings, the select committee has developed a massive body of evidence thanks to the many hundreds of witnesses who have voluntarily provided information relevant to our investigation. it has not always been easy to get that information because the same people who drove the former president's pressure campaign to overturn the election are now trying to cover up the truth about january six. thanks to the courage of certain individuals, the truth won't be buried, the american people won't be left in the dark. our witness today, miss cassidy hutchinson, has embodied a courage. i would not get into a lot of detail about misogyny since testimony. i will allow her words to speak
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for themselves, and i hope everyone at home will listen closely. first, i recognize our distinguished vice chair, miss liz cheney of wyoming. >> thank you, mister chairman. in our first five hearings, the committee has heard from a significant number of republicans, including former trump administration justice department officials, trump campaign officials, several members of trump's were asked staff, prominent conservative judge and others. today's witness, miss cassidy hutchinson is another republican and another former member of president trump's white house staff. certain of us in the house of representatives recall that miss hutchinson once worked for republican house rep steve scalise but she's also a familiar face on capitol hill, because she upheld the prominent role in the white house affairs legislative
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office. she's later the principal aide to president trump's chief of staff mark meadows. miss hutchinson has been considered a time appear on capitol hill, representing the trump administration, and we welcome her back. up until now, our hearings have each been organized to address specific elements that president trump's plan to overturn the 2020 election. today, we are departing somewhat from the motto because miss hutchinson's testimony touches on several important and cross cutting topics, topics that are relevant to each of our future hearings. in her role, working for the white house chief of staff, miss hutchinson handled a vast number of sensitive issues. she worked in the west wing, several steps down the hall from the oval office. miss hutchinson spoke daily with members of congress, with high-ranking officials in the administration, with senior white house staff, including mr. meadows, with white house council lawyers and with mr.
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tony ornato, who served as the white house deputy chief of staff. she also worked on a daily basis with members of the secret service, who were posted within the white house. in short, miss hutchinson was in a position to know a great deal about the happenings in the trump white house. miss hutchinson had already sat for four videotaped interviews with committee investigators, and we think are very much for her cooperation and courage. we will cover certain but not all relevant topics with her knowledge today. again, our future hearings will provide good detail, putting the testimony today in a broader and more complete contacts. today, you will hear miss hutchinson relate certain firsthand observations of president trump's conduct on january six. you also hear new information regarding the actions and statements of mr. trump's senior advisers that day, including his chief of staff mark meadows and his white
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house counsel. we will begin to examine evidence bearing on what president trump and members of the white house staff knew about the prospect for violence on generous excess even before the violence began. to best communicate the ambition that the community has gathered, we will call the practice of recent hearings, playing videotape has testimony a bisson and others and also posing questions to misunderstand life. mister chairman, i yield back. >> thank you very much. our witness today is miss cassidy hutchison, who served in the trump administration in the white house office of legislative affairs on 2019 and 2020. and as a special assistant to the president and white house chief of staff office, from march 2020 to january 2021. i will now swear in our witness. the witness will please stand and raise her right hand.
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do you swear on the penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> i do. >> thank you, you may be seated. let the record reflect that the witness answered in the formative. i now recognize myself for questions. mrs. chance in, i would like to start with a few questions about your background. these are some photographs we have obtained a highlight in your career. the show you with members of congress, including steve scalise as well as the white house minority leader kevin mccarthy and jim jordan. other show you with the president and members of congress aboard air force one. before you work in the white house, you worked on capitol hill with representative steve
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scalise and senator ted cruz. and then, in 2019, you moved to the white house and served there until the end of the trump administration in 2020. when you started at the white house, you served in the office of legislative affairs. we understand that you are initially hired as a staff assistant but we can you explain your role for the community? >> when i moved over to the white house chief of staff office with mr. meadows, and he became the fourth chief of staff, it's difficult to describe a typical day. i was a special assistant to the president and adviser to the chief of staff. the days dependent on what the president was doing that day, and that is how my performer was reflected. i had a lot of outreach with
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members of congress, senior cabinet officials, i would work on policy issues with relevant internal components and members on the hill, as well as security particle at the white house complex for mr. meadows and the president. >> and then you received another promotion in march 2020. at that time, you became the principal aide to the new white house chief of staff, mark meadows, is that right? >> that's correct, sir. >> what did a typical day look like for you and your work for mr. meadows? >> a varied. with what was going on, we spent a lot of time on the hill. i spent time on the hill independently, as i was his liaison for the capitol. we did a lot of presidential travel arrangements, but mostly i was going to serve with the chief of staff needed. often, he needed what the president scheduled told him to do that they. >> is it fair to say that you
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spoke regularly in your position both with members of congress and with senior members of the trump administration? >> that's correct, that's a fair assessment. would you say that in your work with mr. meadows, you are typically in contact with him and others within the white house throughout the day. >> that's right, mr. meadows and i were in contact pretty much throughout every day, consistently. although so much great importance have happened in the west wing of the white house, it's quite a small building. above me, on the screen, you can see a map of the first floor of the west wing at the white house. on the right, you can see the presidents oval office. on the left, the chief of staff office suite. within the chief of staff
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office suite and in the heart of the west wing, was your desk. this was between the vice president office and the oval office. miss hutchinson, is this an accurate picture of where you are located? >> it is accurate. it is a lot smaller than it looks. >> absolutely. mason, this is a photo that shows a short distance between your office and the presidents oval office. it only takes 5 to 10 seconds to walk down the hall from your office to the oval office. is that right? >> that is correct. >> thank you, pursuant to the section five see a house resolution, the chair recognizes the young woman from wyoming, miss cheney, for questions. >> thank you very much, mister chairman.
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mister chairman, we begin today with an exchange that first provided miss hutchinson a tangible sense of the ongoing planning for the events of january six. on january 2nd, four days before the attack on our capitol, president trump lead lawyer, mr. giuliani, was meeting with white house chief of staff mark meadows and others. misses in, do you remember mr. giuliani meeting with mr. meadows ungenerous economic, 2021? >> i do. he met with mr. meadows in the evening of general second, 2021. >> we understand that you walked mr. giuliani out of the white house that night, and he talks to you about general six. what do you remember him saying? >> as mr. giuliani and i will walk into our vehicle that evening, he looked to me and said something to the effect of, cars, are you excited for the six? it is going to be a great day. i remember looking at him and saying, rudy, could you explain what is happening on the six? he had responded something to
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the effect of, we are going to the capitol, it's going to be great, the president will be there, he will look powerful. he will be other members and senators. talk to the chief about it, talk to the chief about it, he knows about it. >> and you go back to the west wing and talk about mr. meadows with giuliani? >> i did. after he left the campus that evening, i went back to our office and found mr. meadows in his ofce on his couch. he was going through his phone. i remember him leading against the doorway and said, i had an interesting conversation with rudy, mark. it sounds like we're going to the capitol. he did not look up from his phone and say something to the effect of, it's a lot going on cass, thanks mike everyone bad ungenerous excess. >> miss hutchinson, mr. meadows is engage in litigation with the committee to try to avoid testifying here.
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what was your reaction when he said to you that things might get real bad? >> in the days before january 2nd, i was apprehensive about the six. i had heard general plans for a rally. i had heard tentative movements to potentially go to the capitol, but when hearing rudy 's take on generous excess and then mark's response, that was the first moment that i remember feeling scared and nervous for what could happen on generous excess. i had a deeper concern for what was happening with the planning aspects of it. >> thank you, miss hutchinson. today, we will be focusing primarily on the events of january 5th and six at the white house. but to begin and different discussion, i want to talk about a conversation that you had with mr. john ratcliffe, the director of national
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intelligence. you had this conversation in december of 2020. mr. ratcliffe was nominated by president trump to oversee u.s. intelligence community. before his appointment, mr. ratcliffe was a republican member of congress. as you will see on this clip, director ratcliffe's comments in december 2020 were prescient. >> my understanding was that director ratcliffe did not want much to do with the postelection period. ratcliffe elk that it was not something that the white house should be pursuing. if felt to the presidents legacy. he had expressed to me that he was concerned it could spiral out of control and potentially
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be dangerous, either for our democracy or the way things are going for the six. >> when you say it was not something the white house -- with do you mean? >> the fine and fight the results of the election, find missing ballots, filing lawsuits in certain states, and reaching out to state legislators about what -- that was pretty much the way that they handled the postelection period. they felt dangerous repercussions in terms of precedent set for elections for our democracy.
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>> miss hutchinson, now, we will turn to certain information that was available before january 4th, and what the trump administration and president knew about the potential for violence before january six. on the screen, you will see an email received by acadie deputy attorney general donahue on january 4th, from the national security division of the department of justice. mr. donahue testified in the hearings last week. the email identifies apparent planning by those coming to washington on january six to, quote, occupy federal because things and invade the capital building. here is what mr. donahue said to us. >> we knew that if you have tens of thousands of upset people showing up from washington d.c., there is potential for violence. >> u.s. secret service was looking at similar information and watching the plan
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demonstrations. in fact, there in 12 inch division sent several emails to white house personnel, like deputy chief of staff tony are not oh and he had at the president's protective detail, robert engel. including events like those on the screen. the right house continue to receive updates about planned demonstrations including information regarding. the proud boys organizing events on january six. although mitch hutchinson has no detailed knowledge of any planning involving the proud boys for general six, she did notice. >> i recall hearing the word oak keeper and the words proud boys closer to the planning of the january 6th rally, where mr. giuliani would be around. >> on january 3rd, the capital police issued a special event
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assessment. in that document, the capital police noted that the proud boys and other groups planned to be in washington, d.c. on january six, and indicated that, quote, unlike previous post election protests, guitar gets of the pro trump supporters are not necessarily the counter protesters, as they were previously. but rather, congress itself is the target on the six. of course, we are known now that the proud boys showed up on generous six, marched from the washington monument to the capitol that day and lead the riotous mob to invade and occupy our capital. miss hutchinson, i want to play you a clip of one of our meetings, when you described a call on january 4th that you received from national security adviser, robert o'brien, on the same topic, potential violence on january six.
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>> i received a call from robert o'brien, the national security adviser. he asked if he could speak with mr. meadows about potential violence that he was hearing that was potentially going to happen on the hill in january six. i had asked if he connected it with tony ornato because tony had a conversation with him, with mark about that topic. robert had set, i will talk to toni, i don't know if robert ever connected with mark about the issue. >> miss hutchinson, can you describe for us mr. ornado's responsibilities as deputy chief of staff? >> the deputy chief of staff position for the white house operations is arguably one of the most important positions that someone can hold. they are in charge of all security protocol for the campus and all presidential
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protectees, primarily the president and first family but anything that requires security for any individual that has presidential protections, so the chief of staff or national security adviser, as well as the vice president team to. tony would oversee all of that. he was the conduit for security protocol between white house staff and the nights a secret service. >> thank you. you also describe a brief meeting between mr. ornado and mr. meadows on the potential for violence. the meeting was on january 4th. they are talking about the potential for violence on january six. let's listen to a clip that testimony. >> i remember mr. ornado had talked about intelligence reports. i remember mr. are not of coming in and saying we have intel reports saying that there could potentially be violence on the six. >> you also told us about reports of violence and weapons at the secret service receiving
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on the night of january 5th and throughout the day on general six, is that correct? >> that is correct. there are reports that police in washington d.c. had arrested several people with firearms or ammunition, following a separate pro trump rally in freedom plaza on the evening of january 5th. i know some other reports that you recall hearing? about >> they are. >> of course, the world now knows that the people who attacked the capital on january six had many types of weapons. when a president speaks, the secret service typically requires people attending to pastor medical tech there's known as magnetometer's. the select committee has learned that people who willingly entered the enclosed area for president trump speech were screened so that they can attend the rally at the ellipse. they had weapons and other items confiscated. pepper spray, knives, brass nichols, tasers, body armor,
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gas mask, buttons, blunt weapons, and those were just from the people who chose to go through the security for the presidents event on the ellipse, not the several thousand members of the crowd who refused to go to the max and watched from the lawn near the washington monument. the select committee has learned about reports outside the magnetometer's and has obtained police radio transmissions identifying individuals with firearms, including ar-15s near the ellipse on the morning of january six. let's listen. >> the individuals entry, i white man, brown cowboy boots, blue jeans and blue jean jacket, underneath that blue jean jacket is a ar-15. about 5 to 8 other individuals,
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two of them near the porta-potties. brown, cowboy boots. >> a weapon on his right hip. he's in the tree. >> make sure they know that they have an elevated threat in the trees outside constitution avenue. look for an adult, american flag face mask, cowboy boots -- >> i have three men walking down the streets with ar-15s on independent and forth. >> ar-15s at 14th and independent. as you saw in those emails, the
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first report that we should, we now know is sent indiana clock our on january six. they talked about people in the crowd wearing ballistic and body armor, creating radio equipment and military grade backpacks. the second report we showed you on the screen with some by the secret service at the 11 am hour. it addresses reports of a man with a rifle near the ellipse. 11 a hour hour it (dad allen) we've been customers for years. (dad brown) i thought new phones were for new customers? we got iphone 13s, too. switched to verizon two minutes ago. (boy brown) check it out! with a rifle near the ellipse. (dad allen) so, wait. everybody gets the same great deal? (mom allen) i think that's the point. (vo) now everyone can get a new iphone 13 on us on america's most reliable 5g network. (allen kid) can i have a phone? (vo) for every customer. current, new, everyone. to show the love.
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testimony, you describe for us a meeting at the white house around 10 am in the morning of january six, involving chief of staff meadows and tony ornato. were you in that meeting? >> i was. >> let's listen to your testimony about that meeting, and then we will have questions. >> i think the last time we talk, you mentioned that some of the weapons that people had at the rally, included flagpoles, oversized sticks, bears spray, is there anything else you recall hearing about to the people who gathered? >> i recall tony having a conversation with mark probably around 10 am, 10:15 am, where i remember tony mentioning knives,
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guns, in the forms of pistols and rifles, bear spray, body armor, spears and flagpoles. spears were one item, flagpoles were one item, and then tony relate to me something to the effect of, these effing people are fastening spears on to the end of five poles. >> miss hutchinson, here is a clip of your testimony regarding mr. meadows response to learning that the rally attendees were armed that day. >> what was mark's reaction to these weapons that people had. when tony and i want to talk to mark that money marketing on his couch and phone, which is typical. i rigatoni got in and informed him on this is how many people that are outside but knives are now. these are the weapons known to have possible --
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given a brief but concise explanation but also fairly thorough. i remember distinctly mark not hanging up his phone. i remember tony finishing his explanation, and taking a few seconds for mark to say something. i said, mark, do you hear him? and then mark chimed in, like, all right, anything else? he was still looking down at his phone. tony looked at me, and i look to tony. no sir, you have any questions? i looked at tony, sir, he just told you about the rally. and then he looked up, and set, have you talked to the president? tony said, yes sir, he's aware. all right, good.
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>> yes, tony had it informed the president, -- >> miss substance in, is it your understanding that mr. ornado told the president about weapons at the rally on the morning of january six? >> that's what mr. ornato related to me. here is how you characterized mr. meadows general response when people raise concerns about what could happen on january six. >> at the time in the days leading up to the six, there was lots of public discourse about having to go back -- if i am hearing correctly, was the exact view -- mr. meadows did not share or had those concerns? >> he did not act on those concerns would be accurate. >> but other people raised it to him, like in this exchange that you mentioned. >> that is correct. >> messages in, we will show you now an exchange of text
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between you and deputy chief of staff ornato. these text messages were exchanged while you were at the ellipse. in one tax, you're right, but the crowd looks good from this vantage point, as long ayou get e shot,e wa effing furious. the text messages also stress that president trump kept messaging d.o.t. are, off-the-record movement. we will ask you about that in a minute. can you tell us, first of all, who it is and attacks, who was furious? >> in that text i was referring to was the president. >> why was he furious, dissidents in? >> he was furious because he wanted the arena that we had on the ellipse to be maxed out in capacity for all attendees. the events team had relayed to him that the mags were free-flowing, everyone that
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wanted to come in had come in. but he was so angry about the appeal to come in. >> did you go to the rally in the presidential motorcade? >> i was there, yes in the motorcade. >> were you backstage with the president and other members of staff at the family. >> i. was >> he told us about particular comments that you heard while you were in the tent area. >> when we are in the off states tent area, he was very concerned about the shot, we need a photograph you would set, because the rally was stopped for. one of the reasons, which i previously stated, was because he wanted it to be full and people do not feel excluded. he fell at fall for not letting everybody in.
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the primaries in is because he wanted a full and was angry that we were not letting people come with knives and weapons. >> in the tenth, i was part of a conversation and in the vicinity of a conversation where i heard the president say something to the effect of, i don't effing care that they have weapons. they are not here to hurt me, take the effing mags away. let my people march in the capital from here, let my people in. take the effing mags away. >> just to be clear, miss hutchinson, is it clear that your understanding that president wanted the mark -- >> that's a fair assessment. >> the issue was not with the amount of space available in the official rally area only, but instead, that people did not want to go through the
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mags. let's listen to a portion of what you told us about that. >> in this instance, it was not the capacity of our space, it was the mags that did not want people to come through. that is what tony wanted to relay that moment. we have enough space, but they don't want to come in right now. they have weapons that they don't one confiscated by the secret service. they want to march straight to the capitol from the mall. >> the president apparently wanted all attendees inside the official rally space and repeatedly said, quote, they are not here to hurt me. >> just to be clear, he was told again and that conversation, or was he told again in a conversation that people could not come to the max because they had weapons? >> correct.
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>> and his response was to say that they can march to the capitol from the ellipse? >> something to the effect of, take the effing mags, they are not here to her me. let the men, that my people in. dick march from the ellipse. take the effing mags away, and then they can march the capitol. >> mason, what we saw when the clubs are playing were photos provided by the national archives joined the president in the offstage tent, before his speech on the ellipse. you are in some of those photos, as well. i just want to confirm that is when you heard the president say that people word weapons were not there to hurt him, and they wanted to secret service to remove the magnetometer's? >> that is correct. the photos you displayed, we were standing in front of the tent with tvs, really close to where he would walk out to go onto the stage. these conversations happened 2
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to 3 minutes before he took a stage at morning. >> let's reflect on that for a moment. president. trump was aware that a number of individuals in a crowd and weapons and were wearing body armor. here is what president trump instructed the crowd to do. >> we will walk down, and i will be there with you, we will walk down [applause] -- we will walk down, anywhere you want, but i think right here, to the capitol. [applause] >> the crowd as we know did proceed to the capital. it soon became apparent to secret service, including the secret service teams in the crowd, along with the white house staff, the security at the capital would not be sufficient. >> i had two or three phone conversations with mr. ornato at the ellipse. and then i had four man on mr. meadows detail with me.
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those individuals in a few other bodies on the ground. they were doing their radios. make sure the chief knows that they are close to the capital. >> miss hutchinson, when you said they were having trouble stuck embodies, did you mean that law enforcement at the capitol needed more people to defend the capitol from the rioters? >> it was becoming clear to us and to the secret service that capitol police officers were getting overrun at the security barricades outside the capital building, and they were short people to defend the building against the rioters. >> you mentioned that mr. or not i was convinced you because he wanted you to tell mr. meadows, so did you tell mr.
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meadows that people were getting closer to the capitol, and that capitol police was having difficulty? >> after i had to competition mr. meadows -- at the had a conversation with mr. ornado, i had a discussion with mr. meadows. he wasn't a security vehicle making a call. i went over to the car. i opened the door to let him know and he had immediately shut it. i don't know who he was speaking with, it wasn't something that he regularly did, especially when i would go over to give him information. i was a bit taken aback, but i did not think much of it, thinking i would be able to have the conversation with him a few moments later. >> were you able to have that conversation a few moments later? >> probably about 20 to 35 minutes later. there was another period where he shut the door again and when he finally got out of the vehicle, we had the conversation. but at that point, there was a backlog of information that he should've been made aware of. >> you open the door to a
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control car and mr. meadows pulled it shut. >> that is correct. >> and he did that two times? >> that is correct. >> when you finally were ebel to give mr. meadows the information about the violence at the capitol, what was his reaction? >> he almost had a lack of reaction. i remember him saying, all right, something to the effect of, how much longer does the president have in the speech? >> again, much of this information about the potential for violence was known or learned before the onset of the violence, early enough for president trump to take steps to prevent it. he could, for example, urged the crowd at the ellipse not too much to the capital. he could have condemned the violence immediately, once it began, or he could've taken
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multiple other steps, but as we will see today and in later hearings, president trump had something else in mind. one other question at this point, sentencing, were you aware of concerns that white house counsel, pat cipollone or hair herschmann, had about the language that president trump used and he's a lip speech? >> there were many discussions the morning of the six but the rhetoric of the speech that day. in my conversations with mr. herschmann, he had related that we would be foolish to include language that had been included at the presidents request which headlines along to the effect of, fight for trump, we will march to the capitol, i will be there with you, for me, five for what we are doing, but for the movement, thinks about the vice president at the time to, but mr. herschmann and white
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house counsel office for urging the speech writers to not include that language, for legal concerns and for the optics of what could apple trade and we just heard the president say that the president wanted to today. he would be with his supporters as they marched to the capital, even though he did not end up going, he certainly wanted to. some of the questioned, some have questioned whether president trump's plan to come here to the capital on january 6th. in his book, mark meadows falsely wrote that after president trump gave his speech on january 6th, he told mr. meadows that he was, quote, speaking metaphorically about the walk to the capitol. as you will see, donald trump was not speaking metaphorically. as we heard earlier, rudy giuliani told mitts hutchinson that mr. trump planned to travel to the capital on january 6th. i want to pause for just a
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moment to ask you, miss hutchinson, to explain some of the terminology you will hear today. we've heard you used two different terms to describe plans for the presidents movement, to the capitol or anywhere else. one of those is a scheduled movement and another one's ot are. could you describe for us what each of those mean? >> as scheduled presidential movement is on his official schedule. it's an advice to the press on to a wide range of staff that would be traveling with him. it's known to the public. known to the secret service, and they are able to coordinate the movement days in advance. an off the record movement is confined to the knowledge of a very small group of advisers and staff, typically a very small group of staff would travel with him. mostly those included in the national security package. you can pull an off record nt in less than an hour. it's a way to kind of circumvent having to release it
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to the press, if that is the goal. or to not to have as many security parameters put in place ahead of time to make the movement happen. >> thank you. let's turn back to the presidents plans to travel to the capitol on january 6th. we know white house counsel pat cipollone was concerned about the legal implications of such a trip. he agreed with a secret service that it shouldn't happen. miss hutchinson, did you have any conversations with pat cipollone about his concerns about going to the capitol on january 6th? >> and january 3rd mr. cipollone approach me knowing mac had not raised the prospect of going to the capitol on january 6th. mr. cipollone and i had a brief private conversation, where he said to me, we need to make sure that this doesn't happen. this would be legally a terribly idea for us.
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we have serious legal concerns if he goes to the capitol that day. then he urged me to continue relaying that to mr. meadows, because his men were saying mr. cipollone thought mr. meadows was pushing this along with the president. >> and we understand, miss hutchinson, that you also spoke to mr. cipollone on the more morning of the sixth, as you were about to go to the rally on the ellipse. mr. cipollone said something to you like, make sure the movement to the capitol does not happen. is that correct? >> that's correct. i saw mr. cipollone just before i walked out that morning. mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> and you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was
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concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the sixth, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral -- >> let's hear about some of those concerns that you mentioned earlier in one of your interviews with us. >> having a private conversation with pat late in the afternoon on the fourth, pat was concerned that it would look like we were obstructing justice or obstructing the electoral college count. [inaudible] i'm not familiar with all the legal terms here. obstructing happening on capitol hill and he was also worried that it would look like we were inciting riots or
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inciting a riot to happen at the capitol. >> in fact, in the days before january 6th, and on january 6th itself, president trump expressed some multiple wise white house aides that he wanted to go to the capitol after his speech. here is what various white house aides have told the committee about the presidents desire to go to the capitol. >> did the president tell you that he wanted to speak at the capitol? >> yes. >> during the meeting in the dining room did the idea of the president proceeding or walking to the capitol on the sixth after his speech come up? >> walking to the capitol? now >> driving to the capital? >> it came up. >> how did it come up and how is it discussed? >> he brought it up. he said i want to go down to the capitol. >> what about him marching to the capitol on the sixth? >> yes. >> tell us about that. >> so, it's kind of a general
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thing, to get into the specifics of it, i was aware of the desire of the president to potentially march or accompany the rally attendees to the capitol. >> when did you first hear about this idea, of the president accompanying attendees to the capitol? >> after he finished through his remarks. >> when the president said that he would be going to the capitol during his speech on the ellipse, the secret service scrambled to find a way for him to go. we know this from witnesses and the secret service. we also know it from messages among staff on the presidents national security council. the nsc staff were monitoring the situation in realtime. you can see how the situation evolved in the following chat log that the committee has obtained. as you can see, and yes the
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staff believed that mogul, the president, was going to the capital, and, quote, they were finding the best route now. from these chants we also know that the staff learned of the attack on the capitol in realtime. when president trump left the ellipse stage at one tan, the staff knew that rioters had invaded the inaugural stage and capitol police were calling for all available officers to respond. when republican leader kevin mccarthy heard the president saying he was going to the capitol, he called you, miss hutchinson. isn't that right? >> that's correct. and in this text message, you told tony ornato, quote, mccarthy just told, me as well. and do you guys think you're coming to my office? tell us about the call that day
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with mccarthy during the presidents speech on the ellipse. >> i was attend behind the stage, behind the stage you can't really hear what's going on in front of you. so mr. mccarthy called me with this information. i answered the call and he sounded rushed but also frustrated and angry at me. i was confused, because i didn't know where the president had just said. tn explained the president had said he's marching us to the you. you told me this whole week you're not coming up here. why would you lie to me? i said i'm not lying, i wasn't lying to you, sir. we are not going to the capitol. and then he said, well he just said it onstage, cassidy. figure it out. don't come up here. i said i will run the traps on this and i can assure you were not coming up to capitol the weave. already made that decision. he pressed a little bit more.
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believing me but i think frustrated that the president had said that. we ended the phone conversation after that. i called mr. ornato to confirm we weren't going to the capital. this was also in our text messages. i sent mr. mccarthy another text, telling him that we were not going up to the capitol. he didn't respond after that. >> and we understand, miss hutchinson, that the plans for the president to go to the capitol and included discussions at some point about where the president would do when he came up to the capitol on january 6th. let's look at a clip of one of your interviews discussing that issue with the committee. >> when you are talking about a scheduled movement, did anyone say where the president wanted to do when he got here? >> no.
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not that i can specifically remember. i remember overhearing ideas discussed when with mark and scott perry, mark and rudy giuliani. i don't know which conversations were elevated to the president. i don't know what he personally wanted to do if he were going to the capitol that day. there were discussions about him having another speech outside the capitol before going in. and then there is a conversation about him going into the house chamber at one point. >> as we've all just heard, in the days leading up to january six, on the day of the speech, both before and during and after the rally speech, president trump was pushing for his staff to come up during the
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kaufman. our coverage of the january six hearing continues in a moment but first, a look at some other stories we are following. police chief pete arredondo of uvalde said he's giving up his council seat. he sent in his resignation
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letter hours ago, writing, quote, it is in the best interest of the community to step down as a member of the city council of district three to minimize further distractions. he faced sharp criticism for wedding to confront the gunman that killed 19 students and two to teachers at robb elementary school in may. he maintains that he was not the incident commander that they. in ukraine, officials say that russian missiles killed at least 21 people after hitting an apartment building near odessa. this is new video near the ukrainian -- claims to show russian aircrafts dropping explosives on snake island on friday. russia previously said it retreated from the island on humanitarian grounds. the u.s. is sending $21 million in assistance, including new air system and radars. in 1925 law banning abortion will take effect late on friday night. it overturned a lower court ruling that temporary blocked it following the supreme court decision on roe. on tuesday, a houston judge
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ruled that some clinics could perform abortions up to six weeks in pregnancy, a hearing is scheduled for later this month. in new york, the state legislator passing a flurry of stricter gun -- including a ban on firearms and many public places such as times square. this is in response to the state supreme court ruling that overturned the state century old conceal carry law. governor hochul tells new yorkers that they will not go backwards. >> this is a karim court decision was a setback, but we view them as only temporary. i refuse, as i said often, i refuse to stop protecting new yorkers from gun violence. we are not going backwards. they may think they may change our lives with a ban, but we have plans -- >> a record number of travelers combined with a national pilot shortage making a mess of holiday travel this 4th of july weekend. >> i never came to an airport
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before wondering if our flight would take off or not. >> our flick are canceled yesterday, and now we are hopscotching around to get home. >> thousands more flights were canceled today. severe thunderstorms along the east coast making matters worse. while high gas prices are deterring some by traveling by car, a record number of people are expected hero this weekend. now back to the general six hearings. o this weekend let's turn now to what happened in the presidents vehicle, when the secret service told him that he will not be going to the capitol after his speech. first, here is the president's motorcade leaving the ellipse after the speech on january six.
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miss hutchinson, when you return to the white house and the motorcade after the president speech, where did you go? >> when i returned to the white house, i walked upstairs towards the chief of staff office and notice mr. ornado lingering outside the office. once we made eye contact, he weight me to go into his office, just across the hall from mine. when i went in, he shut the door, and i noticed bobby engel, head of trump security detail, sitting in a chair looking combated and lost. i looked at tony, and he said, did you effing hear what happened in the beast? i said, no, tony, i just got back. what happened? tony proceeded to tell me that when the president got in the beast, he was under the
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impression from mr. meadows that the off-the-record movement to the capital was still possible and likely to happen, and that we had more information. once the president got into the vehicle with bobby, he felt that they were going up to the capitol. when bobby had relayed to him, we are not, we don't have to ask is to do it, it's not secure, we will go back to the west wing, the president had very strong and angry response to that. tony described him as being irate. the president says something to the effect of, i am the effing president, take me to the capitol now. to which bobby responded, sir, we had to go back to the west wing. the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm and said, sir, you need to take
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your hand off the steering wheel, we are going back to the west wing. we are not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. mr. engel and mr. ornado recounted the story to me, he motioned towards his clavicle's. >> was mr. engel in the room as mr. ornado told a story? >> he was. >> did mr. engel correct or disagree with any part of the story for mr. ornado? >> mr. engel did not correct or disagree with any part of the story. >> did mr. engel or mr. ornado after that say that what he said was untrue? >> neither mr. ornado or mr. engel said it was untrue. >> despite this physical altercation during the ride back to the white house, president trump still demanded
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to go to the capitol. here is what kayleigh mcenany, the white house press secretary at the time wrote in her personal notes and told a committee about president trump's desire to go to the capitol after returning to the white house. >> when you wrote that potus wanted to walk to the capitol, was that based solely on what the president said during his speech or anything that he or anyone else said afterwards? >> that is my recollection. i believe that when we got back to the white house, he said that he wanted to physically walk with the marchers. according to my notes, he doesn't set, he would be fine with just riding the motorcade. that is my recollection. he wanted to be part of the march in some fashion. >> okay, the beast refers to the presidential limousine? >> yes. >> president trump did not go to the capitol that day. we understand that he blamed
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mark meadows for the. >> at the rally say, when he got off the stage, and everybody was making movement back to the motorcade, i overheard mr. meadows say to him, as i heard prior to trump taking the stage that morning, that he was still working on getting and off-the-record movement to the capitol. but when mr. trump took the stage, he was under the impression by mr. meadows that it was still possible. when he got off the stage, i had related to mr. meadows that i had another conversation with tony, the move was still not possible. mr. meadows said, okay. as they proceeded to go to the motorcade, and mr. meadows had reiterated, bobby has more information. they got into his vehicle, to my understanding. trump got in the beast.
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at the rally awe right back at the white house later in the day, it have been relayed to me via mark that the president was not happy that bobby did not pull off for him, and mark did not work hard enough to get the off-the-record movement. >> the physical altercation that mr. -- massachusetts scrapped in the presidential vehicle was not the first time that the president had become very angry about issues related to the election. on this number one, 2020, attorney general barr said in an interview that the department of justice had not found evidence of widespread election fraud sufficient to change the outcome of the election. miss hutchinson, how did the president react to hearing the news? >> around the time that i understand that the ap article went life, i remember hearing noise coming from down the hallway the poke my head out of the office, and i saw a valid
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walking towards our office. he had said, get the chief down to the dining room, the president wants him. mark went down to the dining room and came back to the office a, few minutes later. after marketer and, i left the office and went down to the dining room. i noticed that the door was propped open and evaluate was inside the dining room changing the tablecloth off of the dining room table. he motioned for me to come in and then pointed towards the front of the room near the fireplace mantle on the tv, where i first noticed there was ketchup dripping down the wall and a shattered porcelain plate on the floor. the valley had articulated that the president was extremely angry at the attorney general ap interview and had thrown his lunch against the wall, which was causing them to have to
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clean up. i grabbed a towel instead of wiping off the catch up on the wall to help the valet out. he says something to the effect of, he is really ticked off about this. i would stay clear of him for right now. he is really ticked off about this right now. >> mason, was this the only instance that you are aware of where the president through dishes? >> it is not. >> are there other instances in the dining room that you recall where he expressed his anger? >> there were several times throughout my tenure as chief of staff that i was aware of him either dishes or flipping the tablecloth to let all the content of the table to go on the floor, likely break or go everywhere. >> miss sutton, attorney general barr described to the committee the presidents angry reaction when he finally met with president trump.
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let's listen. >> i said, look, i know that you are dissatisfied with me, and i am glad to offer my resignation. he pounded the table very hard, and everyone jumped. except it! >> let's discuss certain communications white house chief of staff mark meadows had on general fit. president trump's associate, roger stone, attended rallies during the afternoon and evening of january 5th in washington, d.c.. on january 5th and six, mr. stone was photographed with multiple members of the oath keepers, who were allegedly serving as his security detail. as we now know, multiple members of that organization have been charged with or pled guilty to crimes associated with january six. mr. stone has invoked his fifth amendment privilege against self incrimination for the
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committee. general michael flynn has also taken the fifth before this committee. mr. stone previously had been convicted of other federal crimes unrelated to january six general flynn and pleaded guilty to a federal charge, also predating and unrelated to january six. president trump pardoned general flynn just weeks after the presidential election. in july of 2020, he commuted the sentence of roger stone was the serve. the night before january six, president trump instructed his chief of staff mark meadows to contact both roger stone and michael flynn, regarding would play out the next day. miss such insulin, is it your understanding that president trump asked mark meadows to speak with roger stone and general flynn on january 5th? >> that is correct, that is my understanding. >> substance in, is it your understanding that mr. meadows
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called mr. stone on the fifth? >> i am under the impression that mr. meadows did complete both the call to mr. stone and general flynn the evening at the fifth. >> do you know what they talked about that evening, substance in? >> i'm not sure. >> it is it your understanding that mr. giuliani, mr. eastman and others had set up what has been called, quote, a war room at the willard hotel the night of the fifth? >> i was aware that, the night at the fifth. >> do you know if mr. meadows ever intended to go to the willard hotel on the night of the fifth? >> mr. meadows had a conversation with me where he wanted me to work with secret service on the movement from the white house to the world hotel, so that he can attend the meeting or meetings with mr. giuliani and his associates in the war room. >> and what was your view as to whether or not mr. meadows should go to the willard that
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night? >> i have made it clear to mr. meadows that i didn't believe it was a smart idea for him to go to the willard hotel that night. i wasn't sure everything that was going on at the willard hotel, although i knew enough about what mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this period. i didn't think that it was something appropriate for the white house chief of staff to attend or consider involvement in. i made that clear to mr. meadows. throughout the afternoon he mentioned a few more times going up to the willard hotel that evening and then eventually dropped the subject the night of the fifth and said that he would dial in instead. >> so general flynn has appeared before this committee. when he appeared before our committee he took the fifth. let's briefly view a clip of general mike flynn taking the fifth amendment. >> general flynn, do you
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believe the violence on january 6th was justified? yes. >> all right. back. congresswoman cheney, could you repeat the question first? >> yes. general flynn, they believe the violence on january 6th justified? >> can i get clarification? are you asking you the question? i'm >> i'm asking both. >> i said the fifth. >> do you think that the
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violence on january 6th was justified morally? >> i take the fifth. >> do you believe the violence on january 6th was justified legally? >> general flynn, do you believe in the peaceful transition of power in the united states of america? >> the fifth. >> let's move on now to january 6th and the conduct of donald trump and mark meadows during the attack on the capital. miss hutchinson, i'd like now for us to listen to a description, you are description, of what transpired in the west wing during the attack. the context in this clip, you described is starting about 2 pm. >> mark meadows office for quite some time and we have spoken about [inaudible]
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at one point, and i don't personally remember and no doubt that he was going. but i remember him being alone in his office for most of the afternoon. around 2:00 to 205. around 2:00 to 205 we were watching the tv and i could see that the rioters were getting closer to the capitol. mark still had an popped out of his office or said anything. so i went into his office and saw he was sitting on the couch on his cell phone, same as the morning when he would just come in and typing. i said, hey, are you watching the [inaudible] . you could see it but i couldn't tell if he was watching or paying attention. are you watching the tv, chief? >> the rioters are getting close, we talk to the president, he said no he wants to be alone right now. still looking at his phone. so i start to get frustrated
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because i felt like i was watching, not a great comparison, but a bad car accident was about to happen where you can't stop it but you want to be able to do something. i remember thinking at that moment, mark needs to snap out of this and i don't need to snap him out of this, but he needs to care. i said mark, do you know where -- i right now? and he looked up at me at that point, jim? i said mark, he was on the floor a while ago, did you listen? >> he said yeah it was real good. did you like? it i said yeah. do you know where he's at right now? he said no, i haven't heard from him. so you might want to check in with him, mark. i remember pointing and saying the rioters are getting close. they might get the. and he looked at me and said
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something is going to have to happen, i'll give him a call. >> not long after the rioters broke into the capital, you described what happened with white house counsel pat cipollone. >> no more than a minute, a minute and a half later, i see pat cipollone barreling down the highway towards our office. he rushed radiant and looked at me and said, is mark in his office? i said yes. he looked at me and started shaking his head. he opened mark's office door, stood there with the door propped open, and said something, mark is still sitting on his phone, i remember going to look, and he was still sitting on his phone. i remember pat saying to him, something to the effect of, the rioters got into the capitol. we need to get to the president now. and mark looked up and said, he doesn't want to do anything,
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pat. and pat said something to the effect of, and very clearly, he said, something to the effect of, mark, something needs to be gun or people are going to die and blood is going to be on your effing hands. it's out of control. i want to go down there. then mark sat up and he had his glasses on still. he walked out with pat. he put both of his phones on my desk. and he said let me know if tim carlson. and they walked out and went down to the dining room. >> a few minutes later representative jordan called back. >> a couple of minutes later, likely around between 2:15 and to 25, i know the tweet went on to 24, and i don't remember if it happened later or now irate afterwards.
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jim had a, call i answered the phone. he i said one second. i guess he knew who it was. i introduce myself. i don't know if you who called me or one of mark's. mark settlement will get the phones and he said okay. so i went down. i asked a valet if mark was in the dining room. the valet said yes. i opened the door to the dining room, briefly stepped in to get marks attention. showed him the phone, like flip the phone this way. he had stepped to where i was staying there holding the door open, took the phone, talking to jim, with the door still propped open. so i took a few steps back, so it probably was two feet from mark. he was standing in the doorway going into the oval office dining room. they had a brief conversation he crossfire's i heard where they were talking about, in the background,
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conversations in the oval dining room at that point, talking about the hang my -- . >> that clip ended, miss hutchinson, with you calling, you heard the president, mr. meadows, and the white house counsel discussing the hang mike pence chance. you describe for us what happened next. >> it wasn't until mark hung up the phone, handed it back to me, i went back to my desk, a couple of minutes later, him and pat came back, possibly eric herschmann to, i'm pretty sure mark herschmann was there. but i'm confident it was pat it was there. i remember pat saying something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more. they are literally calling for mike pence to be effing hung.
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marquette responded something to the effect of, you heard it, pat, he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. he thinks mike deserves it. to which path said, this is effing crazy. we need to be doing something more. briefly stepped into mike's office. when mark had said something to the effect of, he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. knowing what i had heard briefly in the dining room, coupled with pat discussing the hang mike pence chance in the library of her office. his response there to the rioters in the capital were chanting for the vice president to be hung. ital wer (dad allen) we've been customers for years. (dad brown) we got iphone 13s, too. switched two minutes ago, literally right before this. (vo) now everyone can get a new iphone 13 on us
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♪ ♪ astrazeneca may be able to help. aleve x. its revolutionary rollerball design delivers fast, powerful, long-lasting pain relief. as rioters chanted hang mike aleve it, and see what's possible. pence, the president of the united states, donald trump, said that, quote, mike deserves it, and that those riders were not doing anything wrong. this is a sentiment that he has expressed at other times, as well. in an interview with abc correspondent jonathan carl, president sharp was asked about the supporters chanting hang mike pence last year, instead
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of condemning them, the president defended him. >> he said hang mike pence. >> it is common sense, john, it's common sense, that you're supposed to. how can you -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, right? how can you pass a fraudulent vote to congress? >> president trump view that the rioters were not doing anything wrong and that, quote, mike deserved it, helps us to understand why the president did not ask the rioters to leave the capital for multiple hours. in fact, he put this tweet out at 2:24 pm. mitch hutchinson, do you recall seeing this tweet that the vice president did not occurred to do it needed to be done. >> i do. >> miss hutchinson, what was your reaction when he saw the tweet?
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>> as a staffer that works to always represent the administration to the best of my ability and to showcase the good things that he had done for the country, i remember feeling frustrated, disappointed and a felt personal. i was really sad. as an american, i was disgusted. it was unpatriotic, on american. we are watching the capitol building get the faced over a lie. it was something that was really hard in that moment to digest, knowing what i had been hearing down the hall in the conversations that were happening, seeing that tweet
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come up and knowing what was happening on the hill. it's something -- i still struggle to work through the motions of that. >> misses in, we also spoke to multiple other white house staff about their reaction to donald trump's 2:24 to condemning mike pence for not having the courage to refuse to count electoral votes, an act that would have been illegal. matthew caught unger, a former marine intelligence officer, who served in the white house for four years, including as deputy national security adviser, was in the vicinity of the oval office appraise the day. when he saw that we, he immediately decided to resign his position. let's watch him describe his reaction to the president tweet. >> one of my staff brought a
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print out of a tweet by the president. the tweet says something to the effect that mike pence, the vice president, did not have the courage to do what's should have been done. all right that we and made a decision in that moment to resign. that was where i knew that was leading that they, once i read that we. >> ultimately, members of the white house staff sarah matthews, cabinet members, secretary chao and secretary devos, resigned as well. here is secretary devos's assignation letter. >> as you can see, and resigning on january six, secretary devos said to the president, quote, there is no mistake in the impact your rhetoric had on the situation, and it is the inflection point
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for me. let's also look at secretary chao's resignation statement. and secretary chao resigned, she spoke at the january 6th attack and said, quote, as i am sure is the case with many of you, this has deeply troubled me in a way that i simply cannot set aside. it's hutchinson, in our prior interview, we asked you about the president advisers were urging him to do during the attack. you described roughly three different camps of thought inside the white house that day. can you tell us about those? >> there is a group of individuals that were strongly encouraging to take immediate action. i would classify the white house counsel office, mr. herschmann, miss ivanka trump indicate a gory of really working to get him to take action and pleading him to take action. there was a more neutral group,
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where advisers were trying to tow the line knowing that mr. trump did not necessarily want to take immediate action and condemn the riots but knowing something needed to be done. then there is the last group which was to deflect and blame. let's blame antifa, these aren't our people. it's my understanding that mr. meadows was in the defect and blame category but he did end up taking a more neutral route knowing that there are several advisers in the president circle urging him to take more action, which i think was reflected in the rhetoric released that day in the videos. >> you told us that the white house counsel office was in the camp encouraging the president to tell the rioters to stop the attack and to leave the capitol.
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let's listen. >> the white house counsel office wanted there to be a strong statement to condemn the rioters. i am confident in that. >> let's look at just one example of what's some senior advisers to the president were urging. receptions in, could you look at the exhibit that we are showing on the screen now? have you seen this not before? >> that is a note that i wrote at the direction of the chief of staff on january six, likely around 3:00. >> it's written on a chief of staff no card, but that is your handwriting, dissidents? and >> that is my handwriting. >> why did you rate is? >> the chief of staff was in a meeting with eric herschmann, potentially mr. philbin and they had washed out of the office quickly. marquette handed me the no card with one of his pants. he started dictating a statement for the president to
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potentially put out. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> that is okay. there are two verses on their. one illegal and one without proper authority. the illegal phrase is one that mr. meadows had dictated to me. mr. herschmann had chimed in and said, also put without legal authority. there should have been a slash between the two phrases, it was and or if the president had opted to put that statement out. evidently, he did not. later that afternoon, more came from the oval dining room and put the palm cart amid-esque with illegally crossed out but said that we did not need to take further action on that statement. >> to your knowledge, the statement was never issued. >> to my knowledge, who has never issued. >> miss hutchinson, did you understand that ivanka trump wanted her father to some people home. >> that is my understanding, yes. >> let's play a clip of you addressing the issue.
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>> i remember her saying at various points, she wanted her dad to send them home. she wanted her dad to tell them to go home, peacefully, and she wanted to include language that she was bored with at the time. >> you will hear more about this in our later hearings. we have evidence of many others imploring donald trump and mark meadows to take action. here is some of that evidence, text messages sent to mark meadows during the attack. >> this is a text message at 2:32 from laura ingraham. hey mark, the president needs to tell people in the capital to go home. in the next message, this is hurting all of us. and then, he is destroying his legacy and playing into every stereotype. we lose all credibility against the blm antifa crowd if things
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go south. the president son. don jr., also urgently contacted mark meadows. at 2:53, he wrote, he has to condemn this crap asap. the capital police 20 is not enough. as you will see, these are just two of the numerous examples of trump supporters and allies urging the president to tell his supporters to leave the capitol. it would not have been hard for the president to simply walk down to the briefing room, a few feet down the hall from the office, as norah o'donnell noted during an interview with house republican leader, kevin mccarthy. where leader mccarthy said that he believed the attack was an american. >> i want to quickly bring in kevin mccarthy, the house minority leader. leader mccarthy, do you condemn this violence? >> i completely condemn the violence at the capitol. what we are currently watching
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on fold is an american. i am so disappointed. i am sad. this is not what our country should look like. this is not who we are. this is not the first amendment. this has to stop, and this has to stop now. >> leader mccarthy, the president of the united states has a briefing room steps from the office. cameras are hot 24/7, as you know. why hasn't he walked down and said that now? >> i could tell the president what is best to do, and i hope the president will do. it >> republican house member mike gallagher also implored the president to top off the attack. >> mister president, you have got to stop this. you are the only person who can called us off. call it off. the election is over. call it off. this is bigger than you. it's bigger than any member of
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congress. it is about the united states of america, which is more important than any politician. call it off. it is over. >> despite the fact that many people close to donald trump were urging him to some people home. he did not do so until later, much later. a 4:17 pm, donald trump finally told rioters to go home and that he loved them. here is a portion of the video that president trump recorder from the white house. >> we have to have peace, so go home, we love you, your very special, you have seen what happens, you see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil, i know how you feel, but go home and go home in peace. >> as we will show and greater detail and future hearings, donald trump was reluctant to
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put this message out. he still could not bring himself to condemned the attack. mason has told us that to. >> but when they put out a 4:17? >> just to elaborate if i had not already, i recall him being reluctant to found a video on the six. i was not involved in any thegistics are planni video. but i remember seeing the video go out and feeling shocked after it went out. >> on the evening of january six and a day after, the president's family and his senior staff and others tried to encourage the president to condemn the violence and commit to the peaceful transmission of power. at 3:31 pm on january six, sean hannity of fox news taxi mark meadows.
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mr. hannity said, quote, can he make a statement. i saw the tweet. ask people to peacefully leave the capitol. later that evening, mr. hannity sent another text message to mark meadows. this time, he shared a link to a tweet. that tweet reported that president trump's cabinet secretaries were considering invoking the 25th amendment to remove president trump from office. as you can see on the screen, the 25th amendment to the constitution creates a process for the transition of power, if the president is unfit or unable to serve. the 25th amendment has never been used to remove a president, but the committee has learned that after the attack on the u.s. capitol, this is being discussed by members of president trump's cabinet as a way of stripping the full power of the presidency from donald trump. president trump supporters were
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worried, in addition to the tweet he sent mark meadows at the attack, sean hannity apparently spoke with president trump and warned him about what could happen. we understand that this text message that sean hannity sent to kayleigh mcenany on january 7th shows what mr. hannity said to the president. first, no more stolen election talk. second, impeachment and 25th amendment are real. many people will quit. miss happens in, you told us that you were hearing about discussions related to the 25th amendment. here is part of what he said. >> they reached out to had a conversation with mr. meadows, in case he had not heard the discussions. what i understand, this f of st.
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you are technically part of it. the conversation progressed, he should be ready to take action for your positioning on this. we talk to me if you have any questions or if i could be helpful to you at all. >> inside the white house, the president's advisers, including members of his family, wanted him to deliver a speech to the country. deputy white house counsel, pat philbin, prepared the first draft of what would be the presidents remarks on national healing, delivered by a pre-taped video on january 7th. when he arrived at the white house on the seventh, mr. philbin believed that more needed to be said, so he sat down and started writing. he shared the giraffe with pat cipollone, who also believed the president needed to say more. mr. cipollone agreed with the
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content, as did air cressman, who reviewed the giraffe. the committee has learned that the president did not agree with the substance as drafted and resisted giving a speech at all. miss substance in, the recall discussions about the presidents speech on january 7th? >> i do. >> let's listen, mrs., in to what you told us about that and the process of crafting those remarks? >> i learned from a conversation with mark and overhearing him between the white house counsel and our christmas, as well, notices i think you needed to do anything more on the subject or what was done on the six. when he was convinced the put out a video under seven, i understand he had a lot of
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opinions about what's the context of the announcement we're two into. i had an original drop the speech, where there are several lines that that make it in there about prosecuting the rioters are corn and violent. he did not want that in there. he wanted to potentially pardon them. with the increased emphasis of his months at the time, which was, he did not think they did anything wrong. the people who did something wrong that, or the person that did something wrong that they, was mike pence by not standing with him. >> the president's advisers urged him to give the speech. >> who convinced them to do the video on the seventh? >> i am not sure who convinced him or it was a group of people that convinced him. >> who is in the group that you were aware of? >> that i am aware of, mark,
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ivanka, jared kushner, eric herschmann, had cipollone, pat philbin, does are people that i am aware of. >> do you know why that group thought it necessary for him to release the statement? >> i believe kayleigh mcenany as well. from what i understand at the time and from the reports coming in, there's a large concern of the 25th amendment potentially being invoked. there are concerns about what would happen in the senate if it is the 25th was invoked. the primaries in that i had heard other than, they did not do enough on the six, we need a stronger message out there to condemn this, this might be your legacy. the secondary reason was to think about what might happen in the final 15 days of your presidency, if we don't do
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this. there is already talk about invoking the 25th amendment. you need discover. >> the president ultimately delivered the remarks. unlike many of his other speeches, he did not ad lib much. he restarted him, without significant alteration except one. even then, on general seventh, 2021, the day after the attack on the u.s. capitol, the president still cannot bring himself to say, whoa, but this election is now over. >> one other point about the speech, discipline, did you hear that mr. trump at one point wanted to add language about pardoning those who took part in the general six right? >> i did hear that, and i understand that mr. meadows was encouraging that language as well. >> thank you, and here is what you told us previously about the. >> you said he was instructed not to include who wasn't sure -- who is instructing him not to
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include a pardon? >> i understand the white house counsel came into the office that morning and said it was not a good thing to include in that speech. >> that being passed cipollone? >> that is correct. and eric herschmann. >> miss hutchinson, did rudy giuliani ever suggest that he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january six? >> he did. >> miss option, that white house chief of staff mark meadows ever indicate that he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to general six? >> miss meadows did seek a pardon, yes, ma'am. >> thank you, miss hutchinson. mister chairman, i yield back. >> i want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. the member of the select committee now have additional questions for today's witness, and we ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. without objections, members will be permitted ten business
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days to submit statements for the record, including opening remarks and additional questions for the witness. without objection, the chair recognizes the vice chair for closing statement. >> thank you very much, mister chairman. i want to begin by thanking miss hutchinson for her testimony today. we are all in her death. our nation's preserved by abiding by our oath to the constitution. our nation is preserved by those that know the fundamental difference between right and wrong. i want all americans to know that what miss johnson has done today is not easy. the easy course is to hide from the spotlight, to refuse to come forward, to attempt to downplay or deny what happened. that brings me to a different topic. while our committee has seen many witnesses, including many republicans testify fully and
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forthrightly, this is not been true of every witness. we have received evidence of one particular practice that raises significant concern. our committee commonly asked witnesses connected to mr. trump's administration and campaign, whether they have been contacted by any other former colleagues or anyone else, who attempted to influence or impact their testimony? without identifying any of the individuals involved, let me show you a couple of symbols of answers that we received to this question. first, here is how one witness described phone calls to people interested in that witnesses testimony. quote, what they said to me is as long as i continue to be a team player, they know that i am on the right team, i am doing the right thing, i am protecting who i need to protect. you know i will continue to
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stay in good graces in trump world. they have reminded me a couple of times that trump does re-transcripts. keep that in mind, as i proceed through my interviews with the committee. here is another simple in a different context. this is a call received by one of our witnesses. quote, a person that may know that you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know that he's thinking about you. he knows that you are loyal, and you are directing when you go in for your deposition. i think most americans know that attempting to influence witnesses to testify on truthfully presents very serious concerns. we will be discussing these issues as a committee, carefully considering our next steps. mister chairman, thank, you i yield back. >> the woman yields back, discipline, thank you.
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thank you for doing your patriotic duty and help the american people get a complete understanding of generous six and it's causes. thank you for your courage in testifying here today. you have gratitude of this committee and your country. i know it was not easy to sit here today and answer these questions, but after hearing your testimony and all its candor and detail, i want to speak directly to the handful of witnesses, who have been outliers in our investigation. the small number who have defied us all right, those whose memories have failed them again and again on the most important details. and to those who fear donald trump and his enablers because of this courageous women and
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others like her, you attempt to hide the truth from the american people. to that group of witnesses, if you have heard this testimony today and suddenly, you remember things that you could not previously recall, or there are some details that you would like to clarify, or you discovered some courage you had hidden always somewhere, our doors remain open. the select committee will reconvene the weeks ahead, as we continue to lay out our findings to the american people. the chair requests those and the hearing room to remain seated until the capitol police have escorted to witness a members from the room. without objection, the committee stands adjourned. t objection, e stands adjourned e stands adjourned the memories they create. or the spin they initiate. otezla. it's a choice you can make.
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there's a monster problem and our hero needs solutions. so she starts a miro to brainstorm. “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board. dave says “feed it?” and dave feeds it. just then our hero has a breakthrough. "shoot it, camera, shoot a movie!" and so our humble team saves the day by working together. on miro. good evening everyone, and
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welcome to ayman. coming up, the bombshell testimony that changed the course of the general six investigation. plus, the fight for access. minnesota attorney general keith ellison, who is vowed to protect abortion access in a state, will join us live. then, the supreme court conservative justices are changing lost to reflect the right wing media view of america. we'll explain that and more. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started.


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