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tv   The Daily Rundown  MSNBC  April 19, 2012 9:00am-10:00am EDT

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hit the road to hit each other. we take a deep dive down the road to 270. get this, the real scenario for the 269-269 tie. budget busted. two top senators tell us why. plan to vote on the bowles-simpson blueprint that blew up. can they attack it this year? three agents are gone as the investigation unfolds. congress cranks up the questioning. what about the fallout on the views of government. good morning, it's thursday, april 19th, 2012. mitt romney is spending his week on a tour of the battleground state that is will be crucial to this election. the message summed up. the fall election to be a referendum on what he calls the president's failing economic policy. hees the guy to right the ship.
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>> even if you like barack obama, we can't afford barack obama. it's time to get someone that will get the economy going and put the american people back to work. >> in north carolina, romney offered what the campaign said was a prebuttle that won't happen until september in charlotte. delivering a point-by-point rebuttal on promises obama made to revive the economy. >> what you won't hear at that convention is that for the last 38 months unemployment has been above 8%. there have been 50,000 more jobs lost this year in north carolina. more than twice that fit in that stadium. >> romney is trying to capitalize on polling. the cbs poll had a third of voters saying the economy is improving. many are falling behind financially and concerned about
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paying their mortgages. half say the next generation will be worse off. our poll will be released tonight. we have detail ons a number of points. the republican talking point has been the white house failed to deliver on holding unemployment below 8%. interestingly, romney's rendition of that changed a bit. >> now, it's going to get below 8% some day. our economy always comes back. it's no thanks to the policies of barack obama. >> today, romney goes to ohio to give a speech on the economy. itis 20 miles where president obama spoke yesterday where he laid out his argument in his 20th visit to the state of ohio as president. >> by the time you retire, medicare would have been turned into a voucher system. job training programs like this are forced to cut back.
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when you ask the republicans what do you say about that, obama is making this up. we didn't specify which cuts we would make. well, the reason they didn't specify it is because they knew folks wouldn't like it. >> the president argued job training is necessary. he made it personal. >> somebody gave me an education. i wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. michelle wasn't. but somebody gave us a chance. >> ah, yes. president obama borrowing a version of this line beloved by democrats in a race where the republicans candidate's privilege was an issue to the democrats. >> poor george. >> okay. we'll see.
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88, we know how that race turned out. romney finishes the swing state tour with an address in arizona where the rnc holds the annual meeting. on to the bigger issue of the secret service. it's a larger issue. has the perception of government run wild hurt the guy. the guys connected to the prostitute scandal are leaving. one will retire. another has been fired, removed for cause and a third, nonsuper visor resigned. eight others are on administrative leave. peter king says the unidentified supervisor who was fired plans to sue. capitol hill plans to give polygraph tests. they are looking into reports of drug use by the agents. they have found no sign of that. this is not an isolated incident
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with the top democrat saying in a letter to secret service director, the facts as you describe them raise questions about the agencies culture. now, couple this with the gsas lavish spending. does the perception grow that government isn't working or wasting money? photos like this one, relaxing in a hot tub on the taxpayers dime do not help. the white house press secretary jay carney was drilled on this point on air force one. let's hear what the president said in ohio. >> people understand, you know, government is not all the answer. if they see taxpayer money wasted, that makes them angry. they know that government has to be lean and mean and do smart things. >> meanwhile, romney tried to capitalize to a point. listen to what he said.
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>> will there be bad actors from time to time? of course. in any large enterprise we have people who disappoint. you have to have the leaders who set the right example. >> what would you do right now to fix it? >> i'd clean house. the right thing to do is remove people who have violated the public trust. >> which, of course, that is what the white house has done on the gsa level. a lot of top people gone. the people you can fire have been fired. others put on administration leave. politically, the white house has handled it as good as you can. it's a perception issue. those who defend government in this case are being forced to defend government, the democrats. more so, the party of the federal government than the republicans. they can't afford another sort of scandal that just makes it public shake their head and reinforce cynicism about
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government in washington. finally, allegations of sexual harassment inside the nrk nk democratic party produced an embarrassing stand off. they host the democratic national convention. david parker is refusing to step down after new reports show he failed for months to address allegations of sexual harassment lodged against the democratic party former director by a junior staffer. it's a mess to the state party. on tuesday, the state governor dodged questions by reporters all day about this. >> my comment continues to be, this is an internal personnel matter. this is an internal personnel matter. >> what did you learn about the allegations? >> again, this is an internal personnel matter that the party is working on. >> now, the settlement they are
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referring to is there was a settlement with the junior staffer paid for by the party. they were calling for parker to step down. the governor said, i am reiterating my call to resign. the process laid out by the chairman today to executive committee members is unacceptable. the chairman needs to go. david parker is operating out of a hotel in raleigh. why is it embarrassing for democrats? >> folks, we got it. on the week of september 3rd, 2012, the democratic national convention is coming to north carolina. >> that's the party chairman talking about the party convention. president obama visits north carolina next week. i can report the dnc is doing everything they can to get parker to leave. he apparently just won't leave. any hope the senate would break the budget deadlock before november seemed to vanish after
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the budget committee said it was the wrong time to put one up for a vote. >> south dakota republican john thune is a member of the finance committee. he joins me now. senator thune, good morning, sir. >> good morning, chuck. >> let me start with the announcement yesterday from senate budget chairman who is going to be following you on this program. he said that he's postponing a vote on a budget resolution of a mark up, if you will, put it simpson-bowles. i don't believe all parties are going to get out before an election. i wish we could, i wish we could. you have been blunt with me in the past about how politics overtakes the best intentions of people on both sides of the aisle, is this what is going on? >> it appears to be. this is probably the oddest
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experience i have had since i have been here. i have colleagues that have been here longer, but to have a mark up notices and go to the mark up. in advance of the mark up, told we are not going mark it up. we are going to take opening statements, adjourn and after the election, continue with the mark up. what senator conrad said is the budget control act passed really is the budget that begs the question of why he notices a mark up and proceeded to start the process. i think what happened was, and i think he had the best of intentions, his leadership came down and said we are not doing a budget. what we ended up with yesterday was essentially a charade where they showed up and made statements. it was about politics. nothing got done in the best interest of the people of the country. putting a plan in place, growing the economy and creating jobs. >> i'm going to get senator conrad to respond to you and these issues in a few minutes.
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let's get to whether there's any sort of possibility or chance that tax reform is taken up before the election or, no matter what, it's the last six weeks where tax reform is going to get taken up. >> i think it could have started with a budget. then you have a reconciliation process and deal with the tax issues. not having a budget and having the train wreck at the end of the year where you have the expiring tax provisions, the sequester, it looks more and more likely that it's going to be delayed or deferred until after the election. then you are trying to govern in a lame deck session of congress. >> i understand that. let me stop you there. why shouldn't the public weigh in? we have having a large debate about the two parties what should bear the greater burden when it comes to deficit
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reduction. should it be the wealthier americans? it's the large debate here, how much of that pie is used in different ways. why not let the election decide this? >> i think it is going to be litigated on the campaign trail in the next few months. i think it still is the responsibility we have as members of the congress to go through the law to put together a budget and try to deal with the issues. if we have the luxury of time, we don't. watch what's happening in europe. we are not far behind. i believe there's a clear difference of opinion on whether you can solve the budget issues, whether it's spending or revenue. this is a by definition, spending issue. government spends too much, not that it taxes too little. >> it's an issue you are going to hear fought out on the campaign trail. >> it's interesting what i have been hearing from republicans are taxes going to go up or not? it seems everybody is in
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agreement that for some wealthier americans, taxes are going to go -- their tax bill, their federal tax bill will go up. deductions are going to go away. whatever it is -- is that a fair reading of this? the wealthiest americans, in some form of another, the debate is going to be how far down the wealth chain we go, their tax bill is going to go up in 2013? >> i think what is pretty clear is that we have a debt crisis that has to be dealt with. with respect to revenues, republicans said, speaker boehner said when he was trying to get a deal with the president, the super committee that met, it was republicans who put the issue of revenues on the table. we are willing to have that discussion but it can't happen unless it is acocompanied by ho to get spending under control. the president does not want to
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lead. that's the thing that is frustrating to most of us. we know that is what's driving federal spending and take us over the cliff. >> let me get to politics here. if the romney campaign asks you to participate in the vice presidential vetting process will you be willing to do that? turn over tax returns and things like that? >> i don't expect to get asked. i'm trying to stay off lists. >> would you participate if you ask you to? >> they have very qualified candidates to look at. i'm not going to cross those bridges. >> you traveled on his behalf without him to colorado over the weekend. things like that. are we not supposed to look at that as a quote unquote audition? >> i'm trying to help the team however i can. i want to see a new president. that's my objective to work with to solve the fundamental problems we face as a nation. i think i can do it from the
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united states senate. >> fair enough. senator john thune always good to talk to you. >> you, too. up next, the man at the center of the budget storm. ken conrad will be here. with us, reversal on the budget vote and partisan gridlock, the culture of washington he plans to leave behind. plus, a battleground map shake up. why florida and ohio might not be the be all, end all swing states this time around. first, a look ahead at the president's schedule. he's in town tonight. the alabama crimson tide coming to the white house. they won't have the trophy with them since it's been shattered. maybe their dreams will get shattered next year. you are watching the daily rundown on msnbc.
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two days ago, senator ken conrad said he was red dou revise the bowles-simpson proposal. he reverse thad decision and took it off the table. ken conrad joins me now. senator, let me start with what was done yesterday and what wasn't. you have heard, you probably heard john thune earlier say he thought you had the best of intentions but others influenced you to take a mark up of a budget. what happened? >> first of all, i disagree with your lead-in to the story. there was no reversal at all. what i have said consistently is we have a budget for this year and next. you know, our friends have said repeatedly, there's no budget
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resolution for 1,000 days. what they aren't telling you, they aren't telling you 2 whole story. last year, instead of a budget resolution, we did a law called the budget control act. it set the budget for this year and next. there is no need to do a budget for next year right now. what we don't have is a long term plan. what i said two days ago and what i did yesterday was precisely the same thing. i laid out the bowles-simpson plan, which is a ten-year plan to get america back on track. it would reduce the debt from what it otherwise would be from $5.4 trillion. we did not vote yesterday and we are not going to vote today because i am also following the bowles-simpson approach that said you are not going to try to vote until after an election. bowles-simpson was designed to
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have the vote after the 2010 election. why is that? because what we are trying to do is maximize the chance of actually getting a result. i think most people recognize it is very unlikely that all sides are going to get out of their fixed positions before an election. the opportunity that's coming is caused by the expiration of all the bush era tax cuts at the end of this year and the sequester, additional 1.2 trillion in cut that is is going to face us. that is the opportunity. >> i guess there was confusion. you did say a few days ago that you wanted to do a -- mark up a budget. there was going to be the full flenlg debate that takes place in a committee with the mark ups. >> no, i did not. i absolutely did not, chuck. >> it was an incorrect implication?
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some of the reporting was incorrect? >> go back and look at what i said. i said -- i use words very carefully. i was going to mark up to lay out a long-term plan. that is precisely what i did. i have had the committee go into recess. i'm ready to go if we have an indication. if republicans are ready to move on revenue, if others are ready to move on reforming entitlement programs, i'm ready. i have laid out the plan. i have laid out the bowles-simpson plan in great detail. it's important. facts matter here. i did exactly what i said i would do. >> so, explain to me the procedure. is there going to be a mark up of bowles-simpson in your committee? >> we are -- i have laid out bowles-simpson plan. again, the budget control act is
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in place for this year and next. we are following that. i have laid out a ten-year plan that is bowles-simpson. i can't tell you the leadership won't do later this year what they did last year. leddership, republicans, democrats and the president last year decided instead of putting a budget plan in place through a resolution decided to do it through a law. remember, a law is stronger than any resolution. a resolution, i don't think many people understand, never goes to the president for his signature. >> of course not. >> it's purely a congressional document. what was done last year is republicans and democrats at the leadership level with the president negotiated a budget outline for this year and next and put in place ten years of spending cap that is cut $900 billion. it was not a budget resolution. it was a budget law. something that didn't just
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constitute it. i think there's a lot of confusion here. the republicans want to muddy this up. they want to confuse people. they want to mislead them and suggest there are no spending limits that have been put in place. the fact is, $900 billion was put in place in addition -- >> i get you on that. that's a total of $2 trillion in spending cuts. it's the biggest in the history of the united states. >> no, no, no, i get that and i know it's a favorite talking point on talk radio. to come back to bowles-simpson, are we going to see it come to the senate floor? is it going to come out of the committee? is there going to be a vote on it in the committee then on the senate floor? >> chuck, what i just said is exactly what i mean to say. i simply don't know whether the combined leadership, working
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with the president will decide to go the route of a budget resolution to implement whatever is decided. i hope its bowles-simpson. i don't know if they will go that route or passing a law. >> you won't do this on the committee without the sign-off of harry reid and mitch mcconnell? >> i can't proceed without knowing what agreements the leadership at a higher level, democrat and republican, house and senate might agree to at the white house. last year, i was asked repeatedly to hold off on doing a budget resolution because the negotiation already started at the leadership level to do a law. so, instead of doing a resolution, a law was passed last year. i can't say to you, i can't look into this camera and say chuck, i know that they will turn to us
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and say implement this plan through a budget resolution. they may very well decide to do what they did last year, which is not to do the implementation of a plan through a resolution, but to do it through a law. >> do you feel like your hands are tied? >> i feel like i'm in a circumstance in which so many people have a political agenda that the truth is the first victim. over and over i hear my republican colleagues say no budget has been put in place for 1,000 days. they know absolutely that the budget control act, which is not a resolution, it is a law, was put in place last year. that set the budget for this year and next. set ten years of spending caps and said if you don't get an agreement on reform, you are going to face another $1.2 trillion of spending cuts. >> i have to leave it there. i wish i couldn't.
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i want to get you back. i feel like we need to talk about it more. senator kent conrad, i always learn something when i have you on the show. thank you, sir. >> you bet. what is in store for wall street? we'll get a preview, next. plus, a new member of the long-range missile club. first, a trivia question. we are doing it in the 100,000 pyramid style today. a tribute to dick clark. the clue is bob dole, jack kemp. ed musky, sergeant striver. in pyramid style, we are looking to the category they belong. the first correct answer will get a follow up thursday with us. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪
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declared war on south sudan. it comes as two countries are in the worst clashes since the south seceded. photos like these of the los angeles times. we are only showing this one, a cropped image of members of the air division posing with body parts of taliban body parts. leon panetta commented yesterday from brussels. >> this is war and i know that war is ugly and it's violent. i know that young people sometimes caught up in the moment make very foolish decisions. i'm not excusing that. i'm not excusing that behavior, but neither do i want these images to bring further injury to our people or our relationship with the afghan
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people. >> another missile test launch in asia. today, it was successfully launched for the first time. it gives india the ability to hit beijing and shanghai. ted nugent is meeting with the secret service today. he made inflammatory remarks at the nra conference. he called to chop their heads off in november referring to all the democrats. the opening bell just rang on wall street. it's time for the market rundown. becky is here. we have been tweeting back and forth. what do you have today? jobless claims, what do you know? >> i knew the answer to the trivia question. i'm not going to give it away. i knew it. jobless claims, chuck, came in worst than expected. it rose to 386,000 for the week.
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economists were expecting it to drop. it's the second week in a row we have seen the number go up rather than down. you watch the trend. it's only two weeks but a lot of people are wondering what's going on. the futures are lower because of the jobless claims. there's crazy rumors floating around. nothing worth mentioning. traders are looking for a reason to trade down. all the news we have has gotten strong. a huge number of earnings coming out. we heard from verizon, bank of america, morgan stanley, dupont. they all came in with better than expected numbers. they are going to trade higher. great numbers from ebay last night. a spanish bond auction that went better than expected. good news. slightly concerning with the jobless claims. traders looking for a reason to trade. >> to heck with the traders. thank you very much. let's throw away
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conventional wisdom. why the presidential election may not be decided in the states of ohio and florida this time around. we are taking a dive into the swing state scenarios and one that could avoid both states. >> could rick perry be getting back into the race for the white house? romney, are you hearing him? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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the states in gray are the toss ups. nevada, colorado, pennsylvania, new hampshire. we know a few others are in play. wisconsin is leaning to obama, michigan, too. this is where we think sit now. this is the first scenario that gives you an insight as to why romney may have a map problem when it comes because of the hispanic vote and two, how the obama campaign put themselves in a position not to rely on florida and ohio. look at this. if you take swing states and assume the hispanic sweep here, if you will, out west and give pennsylvania, which has gone democrat since 1988, look at what's in gray. 262. he needs eight. florida, north carolina, virginia and ohio. of the four, virginia is probably the state that the
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obama campaign feels the best about because it's a growing state. they have a large african-american population. without ohio, without florida, without new hampshire, mind you, mitt romney could win iowa and new hampshire, win ohio, win florida, win north carolina. and because of his panics, that's what's going on here, he would be seven electoral votes short. that is a map problem like nobody's business. let's look at romney's issue to show you, again. let's say he is able to carry some of these bush states from '04. let's give him nevada for now. not colorado. colorado is a state that's been trending toward democrats slightly. let's give him nevada, north carolina and virginia. even if you give him new hampshire, at this point, he is still 35 votes short. what does that mean? he sits here and he's falling
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into the kerry/gore trap of needing two of three, florida, ohio, pennsylvania. that's the trap kerry and gore found themselves in. they feel okay about florida. you do florida and ohio. two of the three. it's a plausible path. he is falling into the trap of needing them both. now, here is the thing that keeps political junkies up at night. frankly, it does keep me up at night. if you randomly look at the electoral map, you have a one in 55 chance. you can come up with the dreaded 269-269 electoral tie. let's show you one just with the swing states. give obama colorado, florida, new hampshire. you would give romney here nevada, make sure i have this right, virginia, north carolina, ohio and pennsylvania.
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now, you could sit here and say that's hard, imagine pennsylvania. but if you look at the trends, saying the growing states in some of the swing areas in florida and colorado shifting toward the democrats. some of the states with a shrinking population have been shifting slightly to the republicans. sh isn't a hard path. there are a few others to get to. if we go here, the election does go to the house. the point of this story is, florida and ohio there are many paths to 270 for president obama without florida and ohio. it's got to be scary when it comes to the republicans. the political panel joins me next. first, the soup of the day, black bean chorizo. it's not healthy, but dlirgs. you know, those farmers, those foragers, those fishermen....
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well, if you needed evidence that the general election is full swing, both president obama and romney are taking shots at each other now. take a listen. >> somebody gave me an education. i wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. michelle wasn't. but somebody gave us a chance. >> i'm certainly not going to apologize for my dad and his success in life. he was born poor. he worked his way to become very successful despite the fact he didn't have a college degree. >> joining me is jill zukman, liz is, of course, associated press editor and robert join me. welcome all. liz, let me start with you. a little biting commentary with the president. they like the tweak this romney is a rich guy theme a lot. >> i think --
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>> your state of ohio. >> this election is going to be nasty. both of them don't have a choice but go negative and nasty. you are see thag eaing that ear. obama is trying to speak to the working class voters. obama has difficulty wooing as well. they are trying to say, he can't connect with you and i can. or i can connect with you better than the rich guy can. >> let me ask you, jill, at what point does the obama campaign not have to be negative? >> they don't have to do that much when it comes to the class issue with romney. he does it himself. he's constantly dropping things about hanging out with the nascar owners and things like that rather than with the regular people. >> i think it's what we saw through that small group. they realize they have to do
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something. >> they have to work on that. obama can underscore it if he wants, but he doesn't have to. >> something else i noticed about romney, what he said about fox and true believers. for a guy in the second week of the general election, he's spending a lot of time talking to the general base. he did a mainstream media interview and just an overload of conservative talk radio. i thought the primary was over. >> yes and no. polling data shows conservatives are still wary about romney. they are worried santorum may not come out endorsed around pennsylvania. we know romney is going to win the pennsylvania primary. there's the bottom five true believer conservative saying i don't know. >> you think they are going to make good? >> i use the analogy the other day, you are at a birthday party, have a piece of cake. you are a little kid out there,
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dad, can i have another piece. you give them another to shut them up. romney is trying to be overly generous with the individuals because he has a problem with them. >> jill, you just came out of government. change the subject. we saw this, again, the white house -- these are not scandal that is touch the aids. the idea of gsa and secret service, you were in a part of the government, the transportation. how much of a negative impact do you think the scandals have on the public's perception of washington and the government? >> you don't want it to happen. it reflects on the white house in a bad way when something happens within the administration. with the department of transportation, we worked really hard to keep things from happening that were bad or if something -- if we did discover something that was a negative to
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deal with it immediately. i think they did a really good job of tackling the gsa problem. >> the problem here is that, you know, you have several different threats. gsa, secret service and now, oh, another scandal, pictures from the battlefield. what is starting to happen is it may not be directly tied to the white house. this creates a perception that number one, it's a distraction for the president. but it also gives his republican opponents to criticize him for lack of leadership. >> the biggest problem is the gsa. i think that is a poster child for people doing bad things with taxpayer dollars. it creates a need to throw these bums out because they're not looking out for my best interest. >> our trivia, we asked in the 100,000 pyramid style today in
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honor of dick clark. i wanted to tweak this a little bit. bob dole, sarah palin, jack kemp, ed muskie, lloyd bent 17 and sargent shriver. we were looking for people who lost the vice presidency since 1968. i was going to tweak this as vice presidents who ran for president but never got the name nation. remember, you would get the oooh from dick clark. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] there's a crushing national debt hanging over us. hindering economic growth. it's time for some common sense -- people in congress who'll come together and put partisan politics aside. not with radical schemes that gamble with america's future. but with a plan that requires washington to balance the budget the right way --
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i'll assure you one thing. if i decide to run for the presidency in 2016, i'll be in way before the summer of 2016, or 2015 sdplooeceven. >> it sounds like you're really interested. >> yeah, i am. i love this country. as long as my health stays good, which it is, and my family is supportive, then i certainly am going to give it a good
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examination. >> let's bring back our panel. we were just having a heated discussion, right guys, about why isn't there more public pressure on santorum to hurry up and endorse. so i just played you some rick perry. number one, 2016 -- he's already thinking about 2016. >> i'm sorry, don't we have to get through 2012 first? >> doesn't he just believe he's primary challenging the sitting president or mitt romney or he thinks mitt romney is not going to get it? >> i think there are a lot of leading republicans that today, despite what the new rash of polls say, that don't believe that obama is going to lose this time. they don't believe the republicans will win back the white house. they see the economy. now, there's two things going on here. yes, economic indicators are indicating the economy is growing but people aren't feeling it. >> i feel like we're in a little bit of a flat stage. >> they're hedging their bets. the problem is it's gross disrespect.
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literally you are reading the will before the body is even dead first. >> or before voters have a chance to weigh in. >> exactly. exactly. if i'm the romney folks, i'm like come on, guys. >> it's bad luck. it's crazy. >> not only that, it does strike me, james ckaucarvel had the be line about running for president. it's like sex, you don't just do it once. when these guys get the bug, they cannot let go. i think we just found out rick perry, as badly as that candidacy went, he caught the bug. >> and this is the way it is in the republican -- on the republican side of things. look at romney. he bombed out last time and now he's the nominee. bob dole bombed out and he became -- >> rick perry bombed out. all right. i've got to go to shameless plugs. >> shameless, shameless plug, 9:30 club tonight. fountains of wayne is a great club playing tonight. be there or be square. >> 930 club. >> you can't say be square in the 930 club.
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>> that's true, that's true. >> jill. >> i'm going to a fund-raiser for the whitman walker clinic tonight. it's a great cause. >> the a.p.'s first pulitzer prize in 12 years went to adam goldman, eileen sullivan, chris holly for investigative reporting. congratulations to my friends. >> that's awesome, thank you all. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." we'll be right back here tomorrow. we've got the brand new wall street poll 6:30 tonight. coming up, chris jansing. bye-bye. in the northern plains, heavy rains through iowa and up through wisconsin, possibly some showers and storms around milwaukee. the east coast is looking just fine. a few sprinkles around detroit possible late in the day. even in georgia we could see a
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shower or two. oklahoma city chance of thunderstorms along with dallas late tonight. have a great day. [ clang ] my house is where plants came to die. ♪ but, it turns out all i was missing was miracle-gro potting mix. it's got what a plant needs. even plant food that feeds them for up to 6 months. you get bigger, more beautiful plants. guaranteed. who's got two green thumbs thanks to miracle-gro? uh, this gal. boom! everyone grows with miracle-gro. to provide a better benefits package... oahhh! [ male announcer ] it made a big splash with the employees. [ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ♪ ha ha!
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a solemn moment at the oklahoma city national memorial, site of the deadliest terror attack on u.s. soil before 9/11. 168 people were killed, including 19 children when timothy mcveigh and terry nichols flew up the alfred p. murrah federal building. a moment of silence is being observed on this 17th anniversary of the