Skip to main content

tv   Worlds Apart With Oksana Boyko  RT  July 3, 2014 8:29am-9:00am EDT

8:29 am
in the case of ukraine which has the conflict raging as we speak it but first of all we can do it. there are issues by the way we always respect it the total integrity of all the three partners. another point is that we participate and supports also the mechanism which is there and ongoing efforts to address and solve those issues so for the. content they greenland we have signed last friday. i think we have already does sold it to bay's. commitment but mr frewen if i'm not mistaken i mean if we look at the history of the gauche ation that be in you had with other countries you always demanded that those questions have to be sorted out first before those countries can actually even signed the agreement that was the case the third bear it was
8:30 am
a case with cost so we just still waiting to sign that agreement so why have you pressed those countries to you know sort out those issues first but i gave it seems to ukraine into georgia the somewhat different treatment what you're talking about is some lodgment what you're talking about unprecedently high level of commitment to the values front and principles where we expect the new members of the european union. to align was not only a part of that but they actually do hold up i could create it in their opinion over the years here are we making the first step if you like as far. apart as european nations but some see it in a month or so because i've said i'm not in the case of course the way it's also the association agreement but you're not talking about cost of a joining the european union as a fully fledged member just yet. but the course of
8:31 am
a hasn't been able to sign that agreement precisely because of the benchmarks on the rule of law on the treatment of minorities what have you that it was expected to meet now in the case of ukraine all those issues are equally pressing you know the treatment of minorities good governance the rule of law but somehow those issues were set in iraq. in the best in both takes the member states already made a clear political decision actually more than ten years ago when they said the whole region and the member and the partners living there they have a european perspective so we treat each and every country as a potential member states or candidate country now in case of ukraine and georgia we are the beginning of this road we are trying to build more of the european union in those countries and yes this was stationed he meant us not
8:32 am
only the trade it's not about on opening markets it's about also rule flow it's about an impotence of the just as is about the host care it's about changing the life of the people or better well i think it's also about values and the european union you know likes to talk about values you know a level playing field the rule of law transparency and they have somehow it seems that it is giving one country i very different treatment from from the rest that off course i'm here talking about ukraine now speaking about valleys i think democracy is the most precious value for the e.u. and i wonder if you believe that the association agreement which is a very divisive issue for people in ukraine i mean it is our big war of big crime crisis at the core of the bloodshed and i'm sure do you believe that people in ukraine should have been given an opportunity to vote to have a back round them on whether or not. they want to sign they will and then they want
8:33 am
i mean looking to the post public opinion poll i don't think really that is that divisive as you're saying number two. i'm not against or for enda and particularly through referendum if you sort of passed part of your serenity to institutions let's say and in brussels then i think it's up to the people to decide but in this so sation agreement there is nothing taken away from those countries on the contrary and the game you know i have difficulties. sort of to compare not only those two baskets neighborhood and lunch money but also the internal conflict within the borders really recognize and a good neighbor relations and by the way when it comes to the good neighbor elations motiva georgia and ukraine we are very consistent and make it clear that we expect. the continuation of the traditionally very good relationship was the
8:34 am
russian federation and other neighbors mr fuller but isn't that also the case that ukrainian case is very unique in the sense that it has actually you know usually has as we said countries are expected to solo sort out their territorial issues before they actually sign the association agreement now in the case of ukraine that agreement itself proved to be the cause of the conflict it has already been described that agreement as a civilizational choice for ukraine so what could be more important than that when you're talking about democracy why not allowing north encourage ukrainians to vote on that if especially if you are so confident that the majority of them would support that agreement i'm missing here a little point here i think it was not the opinion of most russia who very legitimately actually next to crimea. to russia well that said an exploration by the actually. it tastes good and it is and it is russia supported
8:35 am
separatism which is actually the destabilizing element in the east of ukraine so so you know coming up with a defect of this situation and crimea and then sort of telling us to figure it out on respect take no will never respect it will never respect this annex ation in this way of crimea to russia but mr fuller i tell i am very well aware of the european position on the crimean referendum but again at least there was a referendum there and people had a chance to voice that political opinion in the case of ukraine we have one part of the country waging a conflict be there not a part of the country and he had no referendum you think was war and it was a one down you called him up i know you no no no i'm sorry i mean referenda in the presence of the people in the group in uniforms without insignia about whom the
8:36 am
first here there are not already has and then a couple of weeks after all they have been. so referendum under the collar snicko that's one thing the second thing for the same could be said about the elections on may twenty fifth it was also i don't buy the argument that what we see in ukraine is a fight of one part of ukraine and good thing in another part of ukraine well ok let's let's move on so you don't believe that a referendum was warranted in the case of the association agreement but i wonder if you i mean it's not only about ukrainians wanting to join us and those myths about your friend and about free will you know the referendum for that to be democratic. it cannot happen in the presence of the military was scholarship of ready to shoot number one number two it cannot come without a lot of work before listening also the other side and so on you know we are sort
8:37 am
of looking for the kind to complain so next chill of the reasons beyond that two hundred ago my do belong for some time to russia which would make moscow a little bit to smell makes such a dramatic. you know can we prevent crime something about the latest agreement that ukraine signed with the european union and whether the majority of people in ukraine actually support that and let me i just don't want to both of us to be tracking that back and forth because i don't think it will lead us anywhere because it's already a done deal as far as russia is concerned the association of crimea whether it's you know i feel it is russia or ukraine is already a done deal for moscow i mean this is something that. you know is pointless to discuss as far as the kremlin is concerned but i would like to ask you about the
8:38 am
ukraine pointless for us and we will discuss it as long as the situation prevails. and i'm sure if mosco if most who decides that it should be a shadow a permanent should do in our relationship that you know your position is the one which is unfortunate is really let. me just i don't know our relationship and i think the way these transitions of power or the who was carried out in in ukraine would also be you know casting a very very long shadow in our relationship but if i can bring you back to the situation in ukraine you don't believe that ukraine are certain. what kind of group. who did top you don't think about number one and number two why do i have a feeling that you imply that you imply the european union in this good to talk well i think they be legitimacy of the authorities in kiev especially the of the
8:39 am
previous government has been questionable and i think in fact what the kremlin has recognized the bail actions of mr polite person. was legitimate but the question is that you know ukraine is a notoriously prong to political u. turns i mean you cannot exclude a chance that a few years down the line they won't kick mr person god of office and than the same association agreement that was signed last friday i wonder if you oh so to figure if you do you are a peon citizens because they see they will have to bankroll be european to be ukrainian transition to the european union nowadays listen again i'm not against her friend if those are democratic or friend us on the democratic conditions or if there is a good reason for a friend but even after the signature even after the ratification and even of the provisional application ukraine remain the same super income trick as it is
8:40 am
no decisions will be taken in brussels at the expense of ukraine on the contrary ukraine will become the conduit which could benefit from the support of the european union to get its economy more competitive it will open up its market which is not only the biggest but also richest markets in the in the wolves so i don't see any reasons for the referendum and i don't see any reasons to be afraid that association agreement limits the power of the decision making in kiev it does not mr fuller let me stop the affair. we have to take a very short break but when we come back the e.u. officials now say they're willing to demonstrate that ukraine signing of the if the station agreement won't harm russia's economic interests if so what was all this fuss about that's coming up in
8:41 am
a few moments on while the party. tried to play. the pulling out if. you. want to think everybody. let me. know last oh well. why would. they say. this case is. sometimes for nothing. this. it's
8:42 am
not just we have a story you'll be jobst if you see the stage. to be. but each other. i know c.n.n. the most n.b.c. fox news have taken some slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's closer to the truth and the might think. i'm ok good. because one whole attention and the mainstream media works side by side the joke is actually on here. and our teenagers we have to print. because the news of the world
8:43 am
just is not this funny i'm not laughing there but i'm not sure. if. you guys stick to the jokes will handle them. welcome back to well the part that we're discussing the impact of ukraine's e.u. authorization agreement with the e.u. enlargement commissioner stefan fuller mr fuller just before the break we were talking about the expenses and the costs and indeed according to the european commission the initial transition of your brain will require somewhat eleven billion euros that the e.u. is supposedly a willing to provide to train over the next few years now the european union is still recovering from an economic crisis and in many countries there are still
8:44 am
economic difficulties the stereotype is very painful do you think it was prudent on the part of the e.u. to take these substantial financial and political of legations like ukraine why didn't you just wait a couple of years until this recovery is complete and until ukraine fully stay stabilized this but listen this pick is to do exactly that this is a blueprint for reforms this is the way i mean how to modernize ukraine the money you talked about is a combination of ground loans and it's not for three years but this for seven years and now it's it's worse for us to invest in the stability of our partner countries do you think the people in europe will support that because it's not only about whether your ukrainians want to be associated with the european union but it's also about europeans rather than political establishment in europe being ok with that do you think that my joints if europeans agree to you know the european commission
8:45 am
decision to help your crane at this critical moment list the commission decisions are not being sort of taken in the blue sky it's very much based on the decisions of the member states and how do you institutionally we. i've negotiated this association agreement for the last seven years and those last seven years we have kept population informed about what we want to achieve what it is there for ukrainian people and what is there for the opinion people in the member states so yes i do a big spike that that as the government and also the people would support dissociation agreement on its implementation well it it's interesting to hear that especially because many polls that have been taken recently on this issue of dong support what you are actually saying i feel look at their results of the latest parliamentary
8:46 am
elections in europe it seems that the european europeans i christened me fifty six with any sort of enlargement or association agreements they want their jobs for themselves for us they don't want you know people coming into their countries looking for jobs no no no no absolutely not. you you're ignoring one thing i mean those election in kampala and has happened actually after the extremely difficult time for the opinion and you know we faced the most difficult economic and financial crisis but look despite all of that those were the first elections where we have been able to stop the trend that actually less and less people participate in those elections those elections were not about. or about to european union not looking outwards and lodgment has always been a part of the solution never part of the problem well i think some people in the
8:47 am
big u.k. may disagree with you including the prime minister david cameron but if i can switch gears a little bit ask you about the implications for russia i think you are going to succumb i know it would never disagree with me on the bargeman he would not he might disagree with me on my disagree was him on the u.k. role in the european union but on the line. an outrage. trust me that prime minister because it is clear from the results of the. both british elections and french elections that there is a great pity as far as the enlargement disconcerting and i think the fast tracking all the bulgarian has something to do about these many european economist claim that the fast tracking of those countries into the european project did contribute to the rise of the far right ideas and. you know the rise of those parties that will be represented in the next european parliament listen again those have been
8:48 am
a difficult five years for the opinion and we have lost a lot of. our growth has been actual as the minus. but has not been because of the launch month it has been because of the global financial crisis if acknowledgment has brought the growth of the g.d.p. also in the old member states it has been always the end of the economic development that's never been a part of the problem and i accept that some for some police forces and extremist forces in europe the launch mentor so these are target of the figures and the facts speaks very clearly here well mr fuller it's an old rhetorical trick to call people who disagree with you a populist or extremist well i think everybody's entitled to his or her own opinion now speaking about the growth according to the european commission website wait wait wait wait no no i'm sorry i'm sorry i don't i'm sorry i don't accept your
8:49 am
argument that i called those who do not agree was me as a populist i didn't say that there are many people i respect who do not agree with me and i do not call them populist but they are you just said that they arise. far right parties in both. u.k. and france was. how by some of the populace then that's what i was referring to anyway rather than trying to split up hairs on the stylist at least the differences here can i ask you a very serious question about be economic benefits of disagreement for ukraine it's been asked made that the joy of signing these association agreement will contribute about one point two billion euros to the ukrainian economy which you said previously may haue this country of it's very difficult economic position now at the same time ukraine's own national academy of sciences predicts that iran thinks billy and your isp will be lost from trade with russia and this i have to say is
8:50 am
one of the most conservative estimates some people put the potential losses. that ukraine may incur thirty to forty billion euro so this is a rather strange calculus you know add one point two billion euros but lose six billion euros can you explain why these deal is so good for you and because you do not compare the same sort of baskets of the fruits. on one side to us in the medium term and long term and we expect that this is a six percent of the g.d.p. growth for ukraine as a result of the association agreement but but listen was all those figures of the last from the trade was russia why why there should be. any laws. concerning trade between ukraine and russia why there is nothing in this association agreement what might have and negative impact on the
8:51 am
ukraine russia trade the contrary we seriously believe here and this is not just rhetoric we seriously believe that's russia going to benefit from this balotelli agreement between the u. and ukraine so i don't understand why i should go there and minus a figure who some someone. to. as and now that there is this agreement to the russia stops completely the trade was you're going what's the normal ones mr frewen there was you know prior to this crisis russia offered the e.u. to have the ukraine to have three party talks to discuss the potential ramifications of that agreement and bet that mr burr also flatly refused to you know have any discussions he said that russia has absolutely nothing to do with that a few days ago he said that ok we can have those talks in july why the sudden change of heart and i can i can i make sort of the record very straight i was in moscow in general to south a team with the rest of my colleagues and president barroso we made to the russian
8:52 am
government at that time the offer and proposal let's talk about this issue let's talk about this so such an event on one side let's talk about the russian interests let's talk about the custom c.n.n. you know what was a different what was a rickshaw in store proposal zero nothing ok so we started to the volatile discussion with the russians just a couple of days before the nose summit in november last year then in generate during the summit you russia we made proposal to president putin let's have the bottle working group to look at the implication of association agreement and we had to to not to but actually very open very frank me thinking we definitely are ready to continue in that now president barroso the venice summit sat we will never give a third country a possibility of veto talking about the ballots old treaty we have before it's
8:53 am
being signed and he was very consistent on this one mr fuller and i appreciate this explanation but i want to just mention that mr putin defend this in the very has the very same i guess gracias because he essentially said what you just said that we have been trying to have those negotiate. for quite some time but the reaction we got from the european union was serious so somebody is not telling the truth here i wonder who that is listen then ask for the record of the to me take ask for the records but do you feel like that where you are you know way way i'm i'm very i'm very serious i'm very serious i ask fold the records of that generally mean think in a moscow i mean. we're not talking about a big chain you're meeting we're talking about the meetings and conversations of the worth taking place last summer and last fall before this whole crisis disintegrated into a total nightmare but there are but there are a number of the proposals like this one and i give you just one concrete example
8:54 am
well let's let's not dwell on the concrete examples let me ask you a critical question because miss talked about big good neighborly relations and this whole our issue certainly draw overwatch not only between russia and ukraine but also between russia and the european union and between you know different parts of ukraine now do you think the the whole concept of the good neighborly relations reaches which you are in charge of should be sort of reassess the given be remiss occasions of the ukrainian situation do you think it could have been handled differently so that the harmful effects for all of us for the ukrainians for the europeans for russians would have been minimized listen i have thought a lot about it. i know that at the beginning of this partnership we have approached the russia whether they would like to be a part of that. russia refused we have been always transparent we have been always predictable in our partnership and that partnership is responding you know to the
8:55 am
will of the people in those partner countries we have never imposed from brussels and i think and my last last point you know. i'm a responsible for neighborhood relationship in russian you are actually translating in double also say. yeah and i'm very happy for that let's get masha why in the russian you cannot translate also win win approach meaning that we could have good relations with kid if not at the expense of the good relations between kiev and moscow well i think the same thing would be said about the european union policies that i think many and in fact president putin actually sad that it is the european union who is trying to drive a wedge between ukraine and russia or between russia and the european union rather than the other way around i guess both sides continue blaming each other but do you
8:56 am
think it could have been handled any differently to minimize the ramifications for all the sides involved do you like i'm sure you put a lot of blame on moscow but do you see any believe anything that the european union could have done differently to minimize the negative consequences of this whole situation financially politically human in terms of humanitarian fallout because if people are killing each other in the ukraine partially because of these association agreement killing each other because russia legitimately next part of the turret tory because russia keeps its border open or the transfer of the people and equipment those people fighting was kolesnik of and also modern equipment against authorities that you are talking about. this is kind of. no you know i'm not sure if this is. an action this is a consequence of the kremlin has done in that close neighborhood trying to regain
8:57 am
the influence of the. allegedly not like that and let's allow our viewers to weigh in with a thought on the crisis you can leave our your comments on our twitter you tube and facebook pages and mr fuller are really. if you're being on the show and giving. heated debate to our viewers and to all of us let's meet again same place same time here one of all the party.
8:58 am
this is what we do we kill people and break things. we can see something if simple as people playing a soccer game we can see individual players in their community or the ball. you can almost see his facial expression come see is a mouth open and crying out. maybe cursed. or maybe he asked. for forgiveness for. there must be near certainty that no civilians will be killed or in. the fifty's with the economic ups and downs and the find out how long they belong
8:59 am
to the deal and the rest of life it's going to take will be if we copy. the new super secret laboratory to mccurry was able to build a most sophisticated robot which will unfortunately doesn't give a darn about anything turns mission to teach music creation why it should care about humans and world this is why you should care only on the. dramas that can't be ignored. to. stories others through a few posts. so picture. from a rose to the.
9:00 am
most. bronze. air raids ordered by devastated small village in eastern ukraine are from the scene only hours after the deadly attack. while in ukraine city of kramatorsk residential areas subjected to heavy artillery overnight with reports of more civilian deaths and injuries. of. crucell i'm seeing its biggest clashes in years triggered by the killing of a seventeen year old palestinian as israel launches air strikes and vows to avenge the deaths of three jewish teenagers.

24 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on