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tv   Sophie Co  RT  December 21, 2017 10:00pm-10:30pm EST

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the headlines here on r.t. pro independence parties looks set to keep their absolute majority in the council on parliament the result that would likely lead to renewed political conflict with the spanish government. the u.s. suffers a stinging rebuke over its recognition of jerusalem as israel's capital and the un general assembly voted overwhelmingly to condemn the move. the use of the deed to obstruct the security council which. even. the brits promise to america will put our embassy in jerusalem this is. in about a hundred countries ignore the intense pressure from washington and threats from the u.s. president and. you can find out all the details of those stories on our website
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r.t. dot com i'll be back with the headlines in around an hour in the meantime here on r.t. sophia and code looks at the repercussions of trump's jerusalem decision stay tuned for that. shavar not say the u.s. decision to recognize jerusalem as israel's capital has been condemned as illegal around the world even by america's own allies well this mean for the palestinian conflict well i asked former head of the un international law commission christian thomas shot. palestinian conflict is heating up once again with.
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russia over the west bank clerics in gaza calling for a general uprising against israel what will. help accomplish in the middle east the world react to washington and the road to jerusalem spark that will ignite more bloodshed the. question tom was shot former had of the u.n. international law commission welcome to the show it's really great to have you on our program now mr summers that strongest move to recognize jerusalem as the capital of israel goes against the u.n. security council resolutions that the u.s. itself supported like you said the tell me can the usa go against a legally binding decision stat it has backed itself. security council. legally binding decisions on jerusalem but there are many. of those security council which. focus on. one of those resolutions the
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background of paul's united states why do you resort. to older measures. to incorporate jerusalem. israeli territory. now and void and this was also as i said already backed by z. united states that was in nine hundred seventy one a very important resolution to nine hundred ninety eight of nine hundred seventy one and also we have the. advisory opinion of the international court of justice which clearly sands and. jerusalem easter is for him is still not part of israel is occupied territory occupied territory this is a multi international court of justice said and i think this is the highest authority in the field of international law now and this whole situation all his actions are illegal can the palestinians go to some sort of a court that would actually reassure of their rights to mr islam for example and
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what kind of court would that mean well that's very difficult there is the international court of justice that already in two thousand and four pronounce itself on the status in particular of the volga which was constructed kweisi by east on palestinian territory and i think we have no other caught it is the internet court of justice and it might well be that. advisory opinion could be requested by the general assembly for example the general assembly has a power to request an advisory opinion from the international court of tarsus the first one was on the wall and the second one could be on the status of jerusalem. so as we're stablished strops move may be contrary to international law which doesn't recognize israel's sovereignty over all of jerusalem but they accusations
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that will a galley down stop anything from happening today. the question is how can an action that are not compatible is international how can they be stopped you know this this in a way is of weakness of general weakness of international international has no police force no army it relies on. compliance voluntary compliance by the states on the rules of international. in this regard unfortunately. israel is not very good to say it fairly. u.n. general assembly had a vote on the u.s. decision and take us and way to the u.n. nikki haley's that president trunk taking this very personally president himself that he will cut off financial aid to countries who are against this decision while washington achieve anything here by threats. of the united states should not.
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act by pressure and coercion on other states i think is it's there's not a fan as this is not compatible as he saw in the quality of stays states must be able to all pronounce themselves freely in the general assembly of the united nations and take said decisions freely was out i eat outside hindrance i think and if president trump takes it personally is this a not good parameter because it's not a personal matter between him and the palestinians he's a president of the united states and he should take care of the interests of the united states and also over israel saying we also have to take care of see long term interests of the jewish people. you have an interest in peace and stability in the middle east how unprecedented is this move by haley sending
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a memo to one hundred eighty countries basically instructing them how to vote does this happen knowledge time in today's united nations well you know you can always as i do a stage you can always suggest stars or countries that they should vote in a specific sense it says alter your freedom of as a sovereign country toe as establish contacts with other countries with your friends and tell them persuade them to vote in a specific and sense but then it should be no pressure i think the threat of interrupting financial assistance because many times in your name like it does seem like washington thinks it runs the united nations now yeah saps. see you so be the case but to washington of course cannot run the united nations this is a community of one hundred ninety three nations the united states has
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a permanent seat on the security council but it did that does not make the united states a master of the united nations that is very clear there must be agreement and we have to seek consensus within the united nations the law washington of course is not the master of the united nations. care we're still an and b. c. act has been the us law since one thousand nine hundred five but us presidents from bill clinton to barack obama decided to postpone the actual moving of the embassy not to jeopardize the shaky middle east talks the israeli palestinian peace talks are at the same stalemate like for twenty years now why take this decision now. in a way you know we have to realize that the occupied territories now exists in. fifty years. i think this time falls upon us to. right to
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self-determination which has also a territorial component as the international community as a whole must make a laugh photo bring peace to the middle east. i think this is not only in the interest as opposed to ns but as i said before also means the interest of jerusalem because the israelis because it isn't a tease however true interest and stability and peace but such measures as soon as taken by trump do not favor stability and peace in the middle east and ensures them . exactly seeing how sensitive and inflammatory the issues of east west jerusalem are why would washington go i had and do something that causes this explosion of passions american decision actually ends up in danger and the security of its ally israel it's a very bad moment and the peace process might prove to be killed.
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forever. there must be some solution that is very very clear. it's. inappropriate moment i think trump is lacking good advisers who advise him on a reasonable policy is busy got to palestine israel and had to wrestle him in particular trump passat he's fulfilling a campaign promise given to his electorate so as does know about votes in the american election. and not about the situation in israel and palestine is trump pleasing his voters at the expense of peace in the middle east while you should not really. engage in foreign policy. to your electorate your national electorate international policies should not be dependent on
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the rims and fences of the moment so i think any state that has a role to play in international politics house to seek consensus in a peaceful. consensus was on nations which also have a to say on that matter. why is the american opinion on the matter especially important it's more a symbolic move than anything else now. well the american the american. is important because america the united states is a. great power a big power and military power in particular and the united states can do many things and other states might follow all the example of the united states if it's a good example of course. states should follow the american example but if it's
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a bad example to should really heat the rules of international law it which are fairly clear eastern rowsell i'm entering is not part of the israeli territory it is under international terrorist action. the interim committee has decided to pursue a stimulus however right of self-determination this is very clear and people that has a right of self-determination must also have a territory and a capital united nations can pass and less resolutions condemning the united states move that it's quite expected that the u.s. will veto all of them you know in general assemblies decisions are non-binding as well so does the u.n. have any political weight here can they really influence the united states or avert their decision i think in the long run this will pressure to see united states president see interests of the united states the united states is visibly isolated
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on that issue and if you are alone or if you'll act alone without the support of your allies and friends this will put you in a very difficult situation and in the long run at least you know be very harmful to your own interests. all right we're going to take a short break right now and when we're back we'll continue disk. whether the u.s. recognition of jerusalem as israel's capital will throw a wrench into the fragile middle east peace talks with christian former head of the un international law commission.
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financial survival guide i don't buy any i've caught up with features. on the fly. as the last of my ex from the future trucker watch has. you know the palestinians have used the united nations as a weapon of war against the future of peace both for palestinians and israelis the united nations general assembly has passed more resolutions against the democratic state of israel that it has against north korea and iran and syria combined so that you know it is a bubbling cauldron of hatred and anti democracy. across europe municipalities are taking their water supply back from private companies
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move to meet the people themselves with simple song alone even some company elsewhere so they can find private companies to take over the utilities many by the telescope. allowed from us you guys forgot to buy them the poor might be cool. this is us to quote them now to put it up for you philip. locals are ready to stand up for the basic human rights of access to water it's about water but it's also over much more than war it's about the hurt and the redistribution of our west birds and their debt down wars be won or lost. and we're back with christian thomas shot former hat on the u.n.
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international law commission discussing washington controversial decision to militant and i said to jerusalem and the abhorrent costs in the international community welcome back mr thomas shad no i'm just wondering why is the united states move creating so much controversy if you look at it on the other hand it's merely an assertion of what they've been saying for about twenty five years besides the israeli government institutions have been in jerusalem for decades so it's pretty much just an acknowledgement of fact now well you know the situation is different we should not speak generally of jerusalem there are two parts of your islam east jerusalem west jerusalem easter jerusalem is occupied territories as determined by easy international court of justice east jerusalem has an international status is it is not israeli state territory it has an
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international status and according to the principle self-determination it should be attributed to palestine should be the base of. capital fold the palestinians the e.u.'s federica mugger rini has rita rated that blocks consolidated approach towards to two state solution to the israeli palestinian problem with jerusalem being the capital for both the using the e.u. is headed towards recognizing the state of palestine. while that might well be the case i am i am not. aware of any move towards that end and it is difficult and i think really there should now be a negotiating process may be trumps this isn't. reflected decision. could really stimulate process
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a negotiating process because now that so much talk about so much discussion about creation of jerusalem that could also have a positive effect because people realize that jerusalem is not just an object of which whose status can be determined unilaterally just by one state the united states which has no power over palestine the whole region israel and palestine the united states is an alien country a third country that has no effective or no decisive role to play from a legal viewpoint the foreign policy spokesman for the german christian democratic union car lamarr sess middle east or the nearest is called that way not because it's close to the united states but because it's near here up with the u.s. policy in the region becoming erratic and unpredictable can the e.u.
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step in and do the job. louses it would be highly recommended will i.e. i think so but unfortunately i think the e.u. under present conditions is not really effective enough it is not respected as a big power by both sides and unfortunately we have a common foreign policy but but that common parren foreign policy is not supported consensually by all member states that's a very difficult bone of contention and unfortunately the european union does not have a unified if you point on the issue of jerusalem or the minimalist session at making these rallies talk to the palestinian trust today as for. sense the us is acting
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too much on the israeli side and the arab states are too and had jewish i think there should be a meeting of those powerful actors and also i count among them russia russia could play a role also i don't know whether china would like to meddle into zs matters because for china the middle east is. a powder keg and there are always remote from as a middle east they didn't like to interfere with those matters but it's a something for the europeans. also for turkey. the european union in the first place i think so and maybe easier again union will be able to reach a common position on the middle east in the long run at least during the next months because now the it is certain to come to some conclusions. well and turkey are
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already considering setting up their palestinian amber says and this jerusalem in response to trump's move can other arab states follow certain willis have a domino effect while the this i don't know all because there are so many tensions in the arab. turks of the arabs are not always of the same opinion but huge efforts should be deployed you know because it's really a powder keg and there could be some explosion that could even lead to war or one day nobody wants that. i want to come back to my position that the long term interests of the jewish people are peace and stability in the region and therefore you need to preserve some kind of consensus with your neighbors than a simpleton to live as
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a good neighbor among neighbors israel's intelligence minister has invited us out of prince to the country to facilitate an oversee the continuation of the peace process can saudi arabia influence make a difference i mean will this unlikely collaborations between israel and saudis last. i think saudi arabia is one of those actives who should engage the best efforts in that negotiating process and i would very much count on saudi arabia among other actors that are they should all come together and push the palestinians and the israelis. should not be so much room for extremists who want one hundred percent solutions for themselves neglecting the interests of the others when you need to shape you also have to take into account the interests of the partner with whom you are negotiating that is very important and just one sided
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measures cannot lead to good results hamas has replied to trunks move with a declaration of an intifada and uprising against israel well there actually be whining or is it just hamas is p.r. well intifada you know i think it's an act of despair because the palestinians unfortunately have to acknowledge that the peace process is not making progress it's stalled and what can they do said diplomatic. opportunities are very limited souls a intifada i think that's a cry of almost a trial of despair when people throw stones how this this is nothing very constructive but if you are in such a bad position when you see no root light at the end of the tunnel there's not a will there's only tar there's only dark in the tunnel and we need constructive
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initiatives and i think from many states people in the. as i said i would also or invite see united states to revisit say declaration maybe they come together as russia taki saudi arabia and others to bring peace and stability to the middle east. house rules in gaza fatah and its president abbas role in the west bank and are internationally recognized well abbas supports an intifada i think as a responsible palestinian statesman i would always look for negotiations for look agreement on consensus but that must be also be offered to the palestinian leaders you know there must be a hand which extends to them and tells them that as
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a viable route to peace this is what they need and i i don't think they are aggressive by nature but what they want they want to move right to existence is in the territory without being controlled. also or while. not treated by is of to be all the time under the control of israel is not pleasant almost an acceptable for a nation to be in a way subjugated it's of its foreign rule under which they are placed and they should have very soon their own rules they should be free to make determinations on their own fate. another aspect of the subject is that the number of israeli settlements on the territory of the palestinian authority is growing and
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there are so intertwined with palestinian towns that imagining an actual and independent palestinian state is very hard right now is there anything that can make israel withdraw its elements from the west bank. well that's that's so difficult because we have the experience of the was stalled of israel from the gaza strip you know was a settlers say they fought violently against the restore all of israeli rule from the gaza strip and now to remove all the settlements from the west bank seems to be almost impossible some solution must be found maybe those those people would be then while. in palestinian territory under palestinian authority for them it would be hard to accept that would be a solution for them to accept that these territories and says settlements also are
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ruled by palestinian institutions a palestinian government why not if it's a government under the rule of law this could be accepted it but he must be of course a government under the rule of law was out and he remained should without violence but it's imaginable if good will prevails mr thomas shot is that the settlement issue in essence a lot more important to the conflict and a status of jerusalem. the settlement issue is extremely important. you know would it to bring the recognition of jerusalem as the capital of israel brings every seeing into focus. and the fact that these settlements are growing it's very. i can recall in disconnection of the advisory opinion of the international court of
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justice which sad that these settlements are unlawful under international no doubt about it just as walty into the cold which are so sad and we have to respect it. all right thank you very much for this interview who are talking to christian thomas shocks former had on things you were an international law commission about their professions of us recognition of jerusalem as israel's capital that is it for this edition of self and koalas you're next.
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