and they could make a contribution as well well let me ask you specifically about the european union because instead of meeting with fans mahmoud abbas the palestinian authority president traveled to brussels and it's clear that the europeans who also happen to be the most generous donors to the palestinian territories quite in sanford with what they see as trumps recklessness but they are also being that true self in a sense of being very slow very careful about what they say and what they do you do you think they will ever have enough in themselves to mosques or that courage to recognize the state of palestine as abbas has been pleading with them it seems that they won't be able to do that the european union is a complex body of twenty different twenty different sovereign countries we will see a process of individual countries perhaps recognizing palestine there are talks that slovenia might recognize palestine soon sweden has already done it certainly some eastern europe european countries have done it in the past before they were
members of the european union there are parliaments in the european union countries that have called on their governments to recognize public. i think this would be a positive development but i don't see it happening very quickly i ask you speaking here on russia today would would russia recognize the state of palestine would russia declare use troops on the capital of palestine well i'm pretty sure that russia will not be the first power to do that and that's precisely because of what's happening across israel's border in syria because for russia the greatest stakes are there and risking the relationship they have at the moment of prime minister netanyahu for nor clear benefit geo political benefit or do political certainty at this point of time i think russia would deem that as extremely risky that's why i'm asking actually about the european union because the european union is not involved in syria or in libya to such an extent so perhaps they have some leverage with all parties that they could. employ deploy rather it's too difficult
for the european union representing so many countries to be able to make a decision which is so controversial so i think that we will see european policy makers encouraging individual countries to take steps that empower the palestinian authority that recognize perhaps the state of palestine they talk about i know the czech republic prime minister had said that in the future in the framework of a peace agreement the czech republic would be happy to recognized east jerusalem as the capital of palestine and west jerusalem as the capital of israel i think this is in fact the official position of russia as well that in the future in an agreement on a two state solution that is jews and could be the capital published on in west jerusalem the capital of israel well that's the position of many countries and the the irony and the shame is that no country is making a decisive step to make that theoretically arrangement in reality mr busking we have to take a very short break now but we'll be back in just a few minutes stay tuned.
this is harlan kentucky. boy you go three. money sixty eight with almost no co mines left. the jobs are gone all the coal miners the said that. these people the survivors of disappearing before their eyes. i remember thinking when i was younger that if anything ever happened to the coal mines here that it would become a ghost town but i never thought in a million years i would see that and it's happening it's happened.
but politicians do something to. put themselves on the line. to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or somehow want to be rich to . have to try to be for us this is what the forty three in the morning can people that i'm interested in always in the waters of my house. first sit. level was hard sell you on the idea that dropping bombs brings police to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battle for food still. produce offspring to tell you the subject gossip the public by file for the most important news today.
by the office of advertising tell me you are not cool enough and let's fight your product. it's all the hawks that we along with all the walking. welcome back to worlds apart with a gash and bufkin founder and cochairman of the israel palestine creative regional initiatives mr busk and as far as i'm concerned the most interesting political actor to watch is prime minister israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu in both how he tries to deploy his leverage and how he tries to control the damage and you made a point in one of your recent articles that there was a time when prime minister spoke about mutuality and reciprocity what do you think
he made him abandon those themes and what can possibly resurrect them break. i think when he talked about reciprocity. to use to say what they get they do and he was primarily referring to this issue of the palestinians recognize it that israel is a nation state of the jewish people he has repeated the demand that the palestinians should recognize israel as the nation state of the jewish people the palestinians have made it quite clear that they're not going to do that they recognized israel they're not going to define israel in its national religious character which in the thing that was demanded i think that a lot of what netanyahu says i'm calling to the public to negotiate is kind of empty words because he's not serious about negotiations in mud view with the word he would put down some of the terms of reference for negotiations instead he uses a kind of cliche of no preconditions and we know what no precondition means it means that israel will continue with its policies of building more settlements and
entrenched in the occupation while the party gets smaller and smaller that they're asked to negotiate about exactly and i would go even further i think the netanyahu government is clearly counting on the trump mentum to establish as many facts on the ground as possible and in doing that frankly i think they've abandoned all the . usual pretense is because you can hear respectable people in israel openly questioning the palestinians people ask nikko region over that ride to state and if you take these far right israeli vision to its logical and i wonder how does it here resolution what is the advantage of that strategy and quite frankly i don't know because i know that in israel we define ourselves as the democratic nation state of the jewish people yet for fifty years already we have a bi national one state reality where israel controls basically everything between the jordan river and the mediterranean sea in this territory between the jordan river in the mediterranean sea about fifty percent of the people living there are
a palestinian arabs most of their muslims so they're not part of the israeli democracy nor are they part of the jewish nation state so we are facing in my mind for israel internally regardless of what the world says an existential question of who we are as a nation and i think this puts to us as the israeli people the need to make a decision of whether or not we want to buy national state whether or not we want to have full democracy without a nation state identity where would be one person one vote in which case israel would not be the nation state of the jewish people or we want to put a border a political border between us and the public opinion people and allow them to create their own state living in peace next to israel the decision hasn't been made yet i know that you personally believe that there is no alternative or to be precise no fair or legal i'll turn it to to a two state solution but i think it's also clear that as you alluded to earlier that the netanyahu government only needs this prospect to you as a cover to continue establishing facts on the ground to continue its territorial
expansion as attractive as they stay a two state solution is to you personally don't you think that at this point the continuing support for it is only serving departed the exploits of the most. i think that neither side is being served by the current status quo with no movement in the peace process i don't see how it's helping the palestinians i don't believe that the palestinians really have a one state option if we can't i don't understand the logic if we can find a way to partition and live in two states let's talk about one state the logic falls from reality in my view we only have a two state solution it doesn't serve israel's long term interests by not moving forward of creating a partnership and finding a way to negotiate with the palestinians this is difficult it's not an easy thing to do both sides need to make difficult decisions i think that we will make those decisions we don't have the leaders yet to make them but i think as i said we're
facing leadership changes both in israel and in palestine i hope in the united states as well soon now i've seen you advocate a change in not only the palestinian leadership but also in the palestinian tactics you were to some extent advocating the same facts on the ground strategy for the palestinians and one of your articles you suggested that if you were a palestinian you would to build on all the palestinian owned land in area c. you would deploy old bulldozers in the west bank to open every road that israel has closed and you recognize that this is going to perhaps bring things to a boiling point what makes you believe that anything good may come out of this i think the key is whether or not the palestinians could couldn't here to a nonviolent popular resistance struggle if they resort to violence and throwing stones in my view is violent as well but you could have a nonviolent struggle where i said if i were a palestinian i would seek to have myself and all of my friends and my family of leaders at the local level of the national level be arrested by israel what you
need to do is hold a mirror up to the israeli people and say this is what you're creating this is the reality on the ground we're not using violence we will not cooperate with the occupation any more we want our independence we want our statehood we want to live in. but we will not be complicit in continuing to cooperate with the occupation that means not working in israel now working in settlements not using the israeli issue id cards in the birth certificates and death certificates israel will no longer have control over our lives and we're willing to pay the price for our dependence independence doesn't come cost free and require struggle i plead with the public opinions it gets in the nonviolent struggle because if you use violence you will never get the support of the israelis or the world if you use nonviolence you will get the support of everyone but mr barr busking to be fair i think the palestinians have already paid huge cost for their independence struggle and they're continuing to pay this huge post every day what i think you're essentially
calling for is an anti thought and it's a regional meaning shaking things by civil disobedience by planned coordinated action rather than let's say the sporadic violence attacks show knives attacks but do you think the palestinians i still capable off channeling that anger channeling their sense of indignity into strategy rather than those outbursts round them outbursts of violence again this requires leadership and it requires leadership at all level that the palestinians don't yet have for twelve years they haven't had elections or eleven years haven't had elections they've had a divided political house for ten years between the west bank and gaza they need to get their house in order and this is of course the palestinians responsibility to do it but i see a new young generation of public indians in the universities educated dynamic people with a lot of of ambition to make a better life for themselves and i and i hope that they understand that their
salvation is not going to come from islamic fundamentalism or from trying to knife some israeli soldiers or kill israeli settlers this is not how they're going to save themselves if they're going to to continue. a high price in blood and death and suffering without the end results it's only through a mass campaign of civil unrest of non-cooperation with the occupation and nonviolence that they can achieve their struggle well if i understand your message correctly you're saying that the palestinians have become q passive aggressive where in fact they would benefit the most from being both active and no not graphic i think they've been frustrated and i think that their challenge because the israelis are very good at what they do the occupation has become very cost free for israel most israelis are not encountered by the occupation they don't see it it's not part of their lives a very small part of the israeli army is involved in maintaining the occupation and
israel has open and good international relations it was a very strong economy so the israeli society doesn't really understand the cost that the palestinians are paying for the occupation the palestinians need to ask themselves how can we get the israelis to understand that what they're doing is wrong how did the palestinians capture the higher moral ground there there is a great it's a disadvantage they're much weaker there is no level playing field here and that requires a strong dynamic palestinian leadership now one thing that the jewish writers taught the world is that humans can adapt to the most degrading conditions and i'm not comparing the holocaust era prison camps to the israeli occupation i'm just saying that. people do get used to the most debilitating and appalling treatment and it looks like the conditions in the occupied territories may get even worse now that china announced his decision to have the funding for the u.n.
agency that provides aid to the palestinians how do you feel about it do you think it's going to change the conditions on the ground in a way that will make these released notice i'm not sure i think that the biggest cut in the only real budget is going to be in the field of education and teachers are going to be fired palestinian schools are going to be more crowded the classrooms are going to be more crowded there will be more children in the streets and this is very problematic both internally for public stein and i think for israel it is not a sign of encouragement i think that needs a lot of reform there needs to be a lot of discussion about the future of the responsibility of the palestinian government in the refugee towns both in education and in economic development and it really needs to fall on the palestinians to resolve these issues even though the refugee issue is on the table of negotiations i don't think this is going to make a radical change that's going to shake up the publicist in an economy it's not that much money that the americans are cutting and it's not going to be the kind of
challenge that i think will shake anything up it will be hurting and it'll it'll be damaging to on russia as an agency and to palestinian children in terms of the education they receive but even if we take that limited damage to the palestinian children i would think that having misery and poverty across the border multiplied would not be in the interest of israel why do you think that netanyahu administration hasn't tried to talk trump out of it especially now that they seem to have such a cordial relationship well i think that in general the israeli government has lobbied with the americans to continue financing of palestinian economic development and certainly the palestinian security forces the israeli position on is one that owner of the. agency which was stains the refugee issue rather than getting the refugees integrated into palestinian society or into the countries where when really works in lebanon and in syria and in jordan and therefore as an
engine see for seventy years assisting the refugee problem rather than helping to resolve it it keeps this dream of going back home which is now the state of israel proper and where those palestinian homes no longer exist so politically useful has taken the position that needs to be closed down entirely so if israel is not going to encourage the american government to continue paying for a room ok well mr abbas cannot force you to have to leave it there but it's been there very interesting though a very troubling conversation i appreciate you being with us and to our viewers please keep the conversation going on out twitter facebook and youtube pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.
join me every thursday on the alec simon show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. prescribe medication is widespread on the us market and a frequent cause of death at that point in my life. like everything was ashes my family was literally coming unglued i had actually planned. to commit some site water or who has made antidepressants so commonly used we were doing what the doctors told us to do we were being responsible and what the real side effects. was chemically altered what i did was done on a cocktail of lethal drugs. just because
one hundred sixty nine russian arms meets all cleared to compete in next month's winter games by the international olympic committee but some top the medal hopefuls are not. on the list. a massive explosion rocks the diplomatic district in the afghan capital kabul killing at least ninety five people and injuring one hundred fifty nine. and the u.k. confirms donald trump will visit the country this year while activists are already planning to greet the president with big protests. have the latest on these stories go to our dot com up next on r.t. going underground looks into the collapse of the construction giant karelian and if you're watching in the u.k.
or ireland sputnik use discussing the latest scandals engulfing the u.k. independence party. i'm here we're going underground as today u.s. secretary of state rex tillerson commemorates the death of auschwitz seventy three years to the day that soviet troops liberated the nazi concentration camp coming up in the show as all the bosses a multi-billion dollar failed multinational cover the end of someone to westminster for questioning we are one of the german corbin's keep ultimately allies the former shadow emergencies minister chris williamson why his party countenance signing deals with the caribbean and the director of global justice now urges a future british labor government to atone for its sins and stop the n.h.s. being used as a cash cow by a profit hungry pharmaceutical industry was. going to face up to
reality and take action to save the n.h.s. from jets by the thousand. jeremy corbyn let alone u.k. foreign secretary boards johnson slams the government for destroying britain's health care system goal is a ball coming up a debate going on the ground but first while washington decides on yet more sanctions against what it perceives as its nuclear armed opponent moscow it is russia that prepares to host talks on syria in sochi for united states media characterized as fake news by the republic's president this is the kind of reporting to expect on monday is u.s. state funded p.b.s. one of the main drivers of the war these past two years russia's president vladimir putin began an effort to put a greater political stamp on what comes next in syria. he was a confident cruden who declared the end of the syrian civil war is finally in sight
and he was clear about who gets the credit as well he might be but why is putin one of the main drivers. of the syrian war surely he is one of the main peacemakers along with president rouhani of turkey and iran who are meeting to discuss peace in russia on monday surely one of the main drivers of war was this man we organized the friends of syria we are mobilizing humanitarian support and support for the opposition when we went into libya and we were able to immediately stop the massacre there because of the unique circumstances and the coalition that we had helped to organize we also had to make sure that walmart about didn't stay there former president obama there justifying regime change in syria by bizarrely using libya and defacto supporting the assassination of muammar gaddafi there and tourism a was of course in the u.k. government when it supported destroying africa's richest country and was prime minister when she was arguably one of the main drivers of the syrian war killing
maiming or displacing millions we need a political solution a political long term solution which sees a syria without assad who is jury is a may only u.k. prime minister because of a defacto billion pound plus bribe to tell other countries who they should or shouldn't be led by and isn't her government support for groups like the white helmets tantamount to being one of the main drivers of the war in syria well arguably it's all over now and while u.k. media outlets like the state mandated b.b.c. and state owned channel four continue to broadcast the questionable footage no one at sochi in russia or on monday will be taking any notice of their so-called journalism the three powers of russia turkey and iran will also take less notice of the cia u.s. officials say the president donald trump has decided to end the cia's program of arming syrian surgeons the cia program was launched by them president barack obama in twenty thirteen the cia is reported to have spent up to one billion dollars
a year on the theory operations informed opinion in the usa appears to be clearly running ahead. of british mainstream journalists the minority tory government and the blairite neocon majority in the bottom entry labor party it's been widely reported that for years now the cia was providing arms intelligence money and other types of support to these armed militants who were working hand in hand and who are working hand in hand and oftentimes under the command of al-qaeda in syria but have donald trump cancelled cia support for so-called moderate rebels dres i'm a in a cabinet of continue to support a coup d'etat in syria that's why a labor leader jeremy corbyn as well as our next guest oppose the bombing of damascus for chris williams and britain's former shadow emergencies minister money is apparently better spent on health services than bombing urban centers in the middle east he joins me now chris thanks for coming back on the show before we go into health service issues and and other infrastructure issues is it true that
around christmas time you advocating the doubling of council tax across this country have no what i've suggested is that local government seized by the initiative by using legislation that the tories put in place in two thousand and twelve to offer a range of discount so essentially what you would be able to do is stop the cuts in local government at a stroke by loading the burden on those with the broad shoulders so those basically living in the biggest houses and freeze concept or even reduce it for people living in small the warnings in the band sort of a to see possibly even in even a in some areas there's no one size fits all it will just depend on how many of the long properties in age there are in any given local authority area which would then give local authorities the opportunity to either load the burden there but it would have to then be agreed in a referendum on that the two thousand and eleven localism act should be getting that democratic buy and people would have to vote for it but the choice would be either a construct increase across the board of six percent all for most people freeze it and stop the cuts the alternative is increase if everybody and continue with the
cuts i think that's a pretty good deal and a stopgap measure which is well worth considering. is that idea right now that was all labor party policy is something that came up in my local authority area following the latest iteration of the cuts in darby the council's plan to close the largest give them over to the third sector a lot of local people were asking me what i was going to do about it it's true that this idea came forward and so therefore been going around speaks people of the country who are interested in this idea no local forces take it but i want to seriously giving it consideration while i want to work they won't stop me because we'll talk about labor in a second but. move to the fact that boris johnson u.k. foreign secretary is going to join jerry goldman's labor party given that he wants more money for the health service here well i mean a clearly than l. service is in desperate need of investment what we actually need to do it seems to me that with the national black morris johnson well i backed the idea that we put more money into the national health service but we also need to reform the national health service to kick the privateers out of health care indeed in the aftermath of
the karelian scandal we need to remove the private sector from all public services and what they're doing essentially and what has been happening for decades we've had of neoliberalism it's something that's afflicted new labor as well is the public services have been used as a cash cow to generate private profit and we're not getting value for money that's the point and i think what we're suggesting is that yes we need to invest more but we want to get more bang for the book as it were and how the proper democratic oversight of the public services the way in which the private is make their margins is by screwing down the workforce that they employ cutting back on their terms and conditions and diminishing the quality of service to the general public and we see that with the crisis in the national health service which is apparently the not the health service never been better prepared for the other. according to the prime minister but the reality is you know i'm going to stocking up any people are dying while they're waiting for an ambulance to arrive are people being treated on corydoras i mean it's an absolute appalling mess but is it not true that your party
when in power is signing off deals with karylle it your leader said no there's. no contract signed with the prime minister us i have a piece of paper here which has the lead service city east leeds orbital road a preferred bidder signature by the leeds council neighbor for karelian they were signing things off with karelian before the collapse how how could you possibly think of it when i think they retrieved that and i think what we've they have to bear there is no good no no i think the treaty before they actually signed that off but you know we've had as you say there's no contract no record it wasn't lying directly but there was a preferred bidder stages given to really after all the profit yes indeed and the problem has been the model that was held sway for the last four decades is not fit for purpose was really fit for purpose then and for a lot of local authorities a public sector organizations it was a kind of only show in town i mean when i was leader of the council in dalby a number of years ago when i did the first peer fi scheme in the city it was during
a labor government that's true but it was to bring properties back into use and then to revenue are involved in that i was because it was the only show it isn't the problem you talk the talk against your liberalism you have a leeds council which is trying to have negotiations with karelian while corby in the newly does a no no we don't want that contract as in the health services it's not true is it it is true and i think you've got to separate the difficulties that local authorities find themselves in in terms of the way in which they can access finance and central government what we need is a change in the system and that will only happen when we get a change of government or a change of heart from the agility in the system or a change in people in the labor party who's been appointed shadow secretary of state for northern ireland he will not be used for pharmaceutical companies we're talking to nick dearden in the end of this show about the need for labor to call a.