tv Worlds Apart RT October 20, 2019 2:30pm-3:00pm EDT
you know that the u.s. congress actually has introduced 3 different bills of sanctions against a dozen at. the house of representative and it's very very tough sanctions in fact not only against the turkish economy but also against the turkish army on the other hand they came actually with this with discover which is actually to put pressure on the democratic forces in order to pull out from that they are to kilometers. territories the deep inside syria but i'm sure you would agree with me that it's one thing to make a promise and and the other thing is to deliver on it and the syrian conflict. specifically talking about. the on made at least 3 deals with the americans which require substantial commitments from ankara only to see the americans change their minds later on do you think there is any try last between these 2 nominal nato
allies well i think the president of the gun is in a very difficult position and awkward position in fact why because he's dealing with 2 different americas america donald trump which in fact we all know that he gave him somehow a green light in order to go inside syria and then he has he has had the changes mind many many times actually because he's coming under pressure from both inside his inside the administration and also from his allies in the region and we have another america which is that stablish with the foreign policy establishment including the state department have been going on also you have the congress who are very much against and you a spell out from from syria and against that the operation against the sea the democratic forces that establishment in america believes that the united states actually by betraying the actually is giving a very bad message to its allies in the region. this is something not good for america. blossoming don't forget the united states if it withdraws from syria it
will not be party to this conflict anymore it will not have any leverage and the syrian conflict and some actually also see that russia is winning in this case because america is actually pulling out so that something of the gun is actually dealing with 2 different americas this is actually what makes his position very very difficult and this is what mixed actually the thrust also with the united states is very low now as we are recording this program on friday afternoon and there are already news coming in that at least in one like this suppose that cease fire has been breached and that there are there are direct military confrontation between the turkish military and some of the kurdish groups speech leads me to my next question as part of the deal struck last thursday the kurdish military units they why b.g. have to withdraw to at least 30 kilometers from the turkish border i think americans really in the position to even promise lot alone deliver on that given that the kurds have already struck a deal with the syrian government this is
a very good question my binion why because right now the cause actually they don't have on the one hand and trust in the americans who have already betrayed them this is what they think and on the other hand i believe the leverage of the united states over the kurds since they abandoned them is becoming actually smaller and smaller with time and i think we have russia we have the syrian regime actually have strengthened their position even fear that because of the of this u.s. policy towards the cause and now actually and my opinion the kurds would be better relying more on the russia on the syrian regime in order to confront turkey even if they because we all know actually even if they withdraw the 32 kilometers i think this will not solve the problem why because turkey's will always see and see a democratic forces as a threat to its national security because they see it as very much the entity.
because of the turkish. security interests and security foreign policy so i think here russia on the syrian regime will be playing maybe very important role in this whole equation between turkey united states and the kurds now these 32 kilometer deep strads is conventionally referred to as a save zone but i think it's now abundantly clear that it's not a save zone for civilians as some may have naively assumed but it's supposed to be and it was from the very beginning intended as a save zone for turkey and its just interests can turkey be safe without this agreement being explicitly in-doors by the syrians and by the russians and what are the chances of that happening no impact i don't see that there will be see it without some sort of coordination. between moscow and maybe also or damascus and this is something that are trying to work out we all know that president putin
and the russian government has already expressed their readiness to. between turkey and syria an order to revive the accord with the other an accord in fact of 1998 which actually. did its security on the borders between the 2 countries between the 2 that will governments so i think i think one point and this is something i believe turkey is not actually acting outright right now because i believe turkey sees merely the syria democratic process as a threatening to its national security so turkey wouldn't be. if the syrian regime . come very close to controlling the borders because we have seen but as the end of the gun the action to the accession of the syrian regime forces to members for example or to line them on a program but so i don't see turkey actually rejecting the idea of maybe that the syrian regime can make a comeback and control. part of the board does that what they really want is
actually to push the cause onto the region that is the only the main concern of this at this point you just mentioned the syrian army moving ever closer. is only 17 kilometers away from the turkish border and i'm sure these push to regain the territory on the part of the syrian military will continue regardless of any agreement between the turks and the americans it looks like damascus is actually the main data says sherry of this agreement. absolutely absolutely i think the moscow small school of the biggest beneficiary of this of this agreement i mean there were the books because the actually of the turkish military operation and the 1st place look i think russia the syrian regime turkey and iran these 4 parties actually were mainly interested in getting the americans out they see the united states presence military presence in syria as
a major threat to their to their interests so i think all they were not actually i mean i think russia we're not really very much against the turkish military operation in the north again against the kurds because as i said i mean the main objective here is having the americans out says that that operation started actually have seen actually both russia and the syrian regime moving. forward in order to recover out of most of the territories that still out of their control and the east of the your fleet is this part of syria is very in much important to the syrian regime because because most of the oil and gas of syria actually is look at ing and is located in this in this part of the of the country and the syrian regime in damascus cannot actually sort of live without having backed the oil and gas fields well mr kaplan he just mentioned that everybody the russians the rainiest the turks obviously the syrians one day americans out and the soft x. is usually. that you know everybody wants to take the americans days but from the
point of view all syrian reckon struction and syrian suture doesn't it actually make sense to have the americans out because as you mentioned they used to occupy about one 3rd of syria the most amply endowed part of syria doesn't syrian need to be able to rise from the ashes we though without international help. it's really important for the syrian regime to become of these territories as i said before because of the oil gaz water out of most of syria natural resources are located in this part of syria but that will not be enough in my opinion for the construction of the country and still the city region will be needing external assistance from maybe the gulf and other parties so i think this is why you hear russia is trying actually to broker a political solution for the syrian conflict we all we all know that turkey and russia iran as well. as atlanta. have already agreed in uncle
summit last month on the establishment of the constitutional committee in order to have a new constitution for syria and they have their way for presidential elections in 2021 russians actually managed to do that i think they will be have. most probably did they have succeeded actually in achieving most of their objectives in syria but in order to do that the russians believe that the 1st step should be that america must must be out of syria that is really important for russia because they cannot actually control the whole syrian issue without actually the americans are out for the iranians they are very concerned about the american presence in the east of the if it is because it cuts. the land corridor between you know iraq syria and to lebanon for turkey and the presence of the united states in the region is also threatening because america is supporting the syrian democratic forces and supporting what the turks believe in. separatists. scheme of the syria democratic
process so everyone actually wants the american out in order to move on with their agenda but later on i think we will be seeing we start seeing contradictions between the these different agendas the moment the americans are out i think these different parties will start to have a problem between them well but there are they'll do respect i think these parties have been having problems for the last couple of years and they have also been pretty successful in managing these contradictions i know that you wrote before that the american president really dislikes the old this. and this is the sort of the political initiatives that it puts forward with when you look at he's latest actions they pull out of the american forces and how handsomely it's place into both russian and syrian hands. it seems that he's really aiding the asked in the process do you think the chances of
a political political solution within the ass and that framework a bigger or smaller now that the turks and the americans have the deal well as i said before you have 2 americas here doesn't come back she doesn't care about syria he doesn't care about political solution in syria and he doesn't get action about who takes what in syria and the many times he said syria is is just sand and death and i'm not interested in is know much there isn't really interest money interest money u.s. interest in well there or oil fields well it's not significant i mean serious on the resume is not really big is not significant so the americans even when you talk about the gun but i didn't actually he said that many times that those actually who are in need for the oil because of the of the bijan god let them come and protect their supplies i mean he said it many times so what about syria which has much less . than the gulf this man is mainly interested about his reelection campaign in the united states he's mainly concerned about his rivals is. more than more than he
cares about russia what about iran. so this is something that is really important that. when you talk about the process i totally agree that the americans seem to have already lost i think. that the. important factor in this conflict the moment the moment they will not be able to have. that. be to the process of the as. well mr campbell and we have to take a very short break now but we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned.
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welcome back to worlds apart with maher on capital on the director of policy analysis at the arab center for research and policy is that is mr koppel and while the turks and the americans according to mr trump of the best buddies again just a few days ago political analysts were seriously discussing. a potentiality of for a direct confrontation bits been the turks and the americans especially after that great task. letter by mr trump was leaked to the media what do you make of this
a rather. unique piece of diplomatic correspondence and i mean mr trump asking mr the not to be a fool and restrain his military well i mean this is a president problem it is there is nothing unusual about him we have seen him actually using less diplomatic language and with i mean with many heads of state you know i mean his exchange with with the leader of north korea. more than a year ago we have all saw you know i mean his exchange so with other leaders like kind of like. they were so this is the this is a president club actually and more or less we got used to him but on the other hand we have seen the president of the gun is showing. exceptional blackmouth ism by accepting the you is deal clearly he doesn't want to get in any sort of direct
confrontation with the united states he believes that he needs to take this deal and see how that deal is going to be implemented on the ground before making any further. you're leading me to my next question perfectly we had dealings he here with pretty big egos both present on and president trump a very sensitive to being seen as a strong leader is an. alpha male as yet none of that prevented that deal even though we know from media reports that the president though and reportedly threw a trump's letter into the d.n.c. does it mean that despite all their egos and despite all their temper is the 2 leaders have found the way all nat edging each other efficiently and getting what they want rather than. acting on emotions you know i don't agree on enough actually president of the gun and but i didn't run. seen by many people
actually many observers are close as close friends we have seen their body language their interaction during the g 20 summit and jump on for example last summer and we also know that there is some sort of chemistry actually between the 2 men and i think sometimes they tend to ignore some of that because because they had to actually speak to their domestic audience i think this is why they understand each other really good. president of the gun is saying as you said to to present themselves as a strong leader inside turkey and brazil and she would like to do the same especially now. 2020 elections are approaching and these are going. back home so i think yes the 2 men out of able to deal with it with each other despite this exchange which both might not like sometimes that president on a slate it's you visit the united states and of embrace that belief and obviously
a lot may change both on the ground and politically in the next few weeks but how big the seeing is the incentive on both sides to man that relationship not only personally but also in situationally. tromp need to carry them on as the on needs trump absolutely i believe so and don't forget that i think the 2 leaders are leading somehow on a very individualistic way their foreign policy barisan actually doesn't care about or the institutions that are working around him this is why we have seen him actually contradicting the advice of his close close advisors and we also have seen but wasn't on the ground taking a very individualistic authoritarian sort of. ruling and turkeys i think the 2 men somehow have similarities between them and the over the boss actually couple of years they have managed. relationship
very very well don't forget that actually tookie but she is the 100 missiles from from russia without being actually punished by the united states and that is that is really significant that despite all the threats which have been made especially by the bin tugun at the end of that it was actually who decided not to go with with that which means actually that most notably he understand turkish needs mahendra stand turkish sensitivities and he's taking care of of that so i think the 2 leaders will be able actually to manage their relationship in the coming in the coming months even if this ceasefire does not hold in and syria now i'm sure did the russians will be watching meeting very carefully not the least because they believe that in contrast to this american team cracker it they actually have a real deal to bring the syrian the war to a close do you think these political process that moscow how to launch within the.
framework could be in any danger if their relationship it's been the united states and improves a little bit and i think this triangle russia america and to the key is very interesting to watch actually both countries are somehow competing for for turkey turkey is a very important emerging regional power and the 2 countries i mean russia and the united states understand that very well they both actually want to when turkey this is the sometimes explain why president trump is very sensitive towards not until going to ising the gun or not and the guys in turkey because he doesn't want actually to lose is the 2nd largest. army in near to a very important bought not for the west generally it's the gate of the west towards the middle east they need to actually in the war against arsenal they need 30 actually in order to prevent refugees from coming from coming to europe so to.
it's very very important on the other hand president putin he really understand how important it is for his for his project not only in syria but in the entire region and in his conflict with a lot this is so this is why he's very keen actually on trying to win out of the gun and actually even when he feels like the gun is swinging a little bit closer to the united states he tries to pull him back and he has been succeeding over the boss 3 years at least since the the thin military coup. and in 2006 you mentioned president clinton and i heard you say a few years ago that russia and president putin personally have been using syria it's you quote get respect from the west and i'm not sure i agree with you here but in any case don't you think that instead of respect from the west still hasn't gotten. it has managed to secure that respect from not on the west and isn't that actually far more valuable for russia look president but then. he lost he
lost ukraine and 2014 in my opinion and ukraine in belarus you know better than i do was like the jewel for the what they were union which is which is the most important. political economic project for most of the reformist impotent and of course he tried to compensate for that by annexing crimea but then i think syria was that was was the was the cause that was the stage the platform which really president putin used very successfully in order to put him back on the and to the national stage and make the americans make the west actually talk to him once once again now he has established himself as the bar the main power broker in syria i think he's building the strings right now in syria and he used syria as well in order to boost his position not only in inside syria but in the entire region now he's the friend of almost everybody now in the region unlike the united states which is the some high. being less. i have seen even by its own allies. that they
cannot rely on the united states we have seen how they are not he says that with the see the democratic process and we have seen actually what but as than when he had a few was actually to retaliate against iran when iran actually. launched that attack on a few weeks a few weeks ago yet something that their own do that i have to mention i mean the americans are saying iran is a sponsor most of the americans i was thinking on is this once a while so they should have for the saudis and you tell yet again that iranian action with are we like with are we believe that iran is a sponsor or not that is a different issue but mr kaplan i think you have a very interesting point here and i want to ask you specifically about russia's policy because it's usually framed in terms of its battery ego russia not being treated as if things it should be treated but isn't the the kind of mode that russia is also for solving the middle eastern problems indeed
a little bit if not superior than perhaps sustainable. framework that the americans have been peddling for many decades i mean russia is trying to talk to everybody tries to employ the policy of the least common denominator which means satisfying interest of all the size it's least minimally isn't that actually a good framework not only driven by russia's ego but actually be strategic i would even say global and humanistic considerations well i think interesting to hear president putin last month actually during the summit with a gun and when he said well that's a done a process could act as a model in order to solve the many conflicts on and the region hand he was opening that even and he was talking about yemen so i think yes i agree with you actually that russia is not only because entering the south or as a global as a global power and terms. it's military strength and. it's political maneuver but
also trying to establish itself as peace. maker. and beyond and i think that is one what one must admit that what i would like it or not that president clinton was very successful was that i would. actually. establishing that he strong relationship with all the parties not fighting each other in the region so what i'm saying here actually is and terms of political maneuvers and terms of managing that a nation ship with dr was different drivers and the middle east but i wouldn't put in establishing himself. as a must in fact of this sort of. a policy well mr kevin nash hate to cut you short here and i would love to give you more space to actually criticize russian policy on other channels but we have to leave it there our time is up and i thank you very
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