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tv   Going Underground  RT  March 18, 2020 3:30pm-4:01pm EDT

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it's medical advice provided by a form of big pharma president something even don't just from being tested for the job it 19 we are going to tally and go to what the situation is like there and how bad it will get in britain does boris johnson's government consider itself part of a in the hood immunity the fiction rebellions professor richard reid explains the u.k. triassic attack strophe with covert plots the most lethal terror attack in u.k. history did britain conspire a cover up of a mole could be involving u.s. intelligence libya and iran we told you so lester hammer on the hour about winning an appeals court hearing what some call the worst miscarriage of justice in the u.k. legal history all of them all coming up in today's going underground fast let's go straight to hospital in modern up when we're joined via skype by dr giovanni growled the infectious disease specialist who was at the forefront of the italian fight against corona virus thank you so much giovanni for coming on what is the current situation in northern italy where your boy will this equation is pretty
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a lot because of course we've got hundreds of people that go to you take should not try to go to hospital of course that this is feasible we cut it for us all best and so a situation in trying to understand which kind of action we need to do so that to 2 people that's a whole when possible and with. just stations who got rescued out there and you stress a soul of course it's a difficult situation sometimes we ask the patient to step in and couple of days they will come anyhow because they are getting worse all the dollies told the change because of it that they will because at least emergency we had to change in this structure and so far in my post there are more than 104 positive cases wait near more yes and we've got to close all the suit rule in order to a larger they tend to care units where 48 need a norther to take here all day younger population of course with regard to rape.
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older population this is not seasonable and we are trying to use noninvasive riskier tory technique can i get on to the respiratory techniques you're a few weeks ahead of us here in britain i understand we see over here we're appealing in britain for manufacturers to come out with ventilators i understand the use of ventilators is something you've been particularly wary of you have to be careful clinically about the use of ventilators yes we do are to identify the patient what got us all to need to survive using them to date on that one but that will not because i were experience is that whenever you need that information with mechanical ventilation but you seem beat it in later and actually this is need it for quite a long time and most of the time more than 2 weeks time and of course that this is very difficult if you are all if you've got many cool will be d.d.'s because that may happen that you die because other people beat it it's right at the corner by dose of the star particular kind of hasta the cool abilities because this disease
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produces a huge england nation burden and of course of this made people who were excited about sort of a risk of people 'd you mention inflammation the national health service here in britain has been criticised for advising people to use ibuprofen and is it your understanding that it's paracetamol you're supposed to be taking i don't see the will like the group that is obvious and thank sought this kind all and good laboratory drugs that do not think they do not cease to work or coronavirus so actually what we are it you would say it's let me say it 2nd level and it runs out or it drugs which are all of the body about this is not going to do with this let me say calmly use under an arbitrary truckstop should not be yours that you can use as it will in order to go well if you but but also reminded most of the time it's even coronavirus that you're born it's not that high and if anyone thinks that washing one's hands is a seems like an odd. response all the mathematical modeling does show it will save
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millions of people from being infected yes of course if it did anything we grew up the birth to be very clear that didn't mean to rule out of transmission is through droplet i do not have quoted droplet then most effective intervention is lost sheep hands 2nd is using mask this works there's no doubt the editor of the peer reviewed british medical journal the lancet says the response here in britain was wrong and that the outbreak has been entirely preventable what did you make of what you were hearing from britain when the chief scientific science advisor here's a patrick vallance who formerly worked at j.f.k. said herd immunity is the path to go down we now know that entails the deaths of quarter of a 1000000 people if you are already in a situation in which it's a cool muni acquired the only way that we need it to do is
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a tool up for conduct this is a general principle and it's i just see this to our all white cotton tucked we're getting reports of a lack of testing kits of protective again for frontline medical staff here in london the epicenter of the pandemic in britain how can we learn from what happened in italy where thousands died about the need for testing which of course the world health organization has advised britain to get a move on with according to the level of it yannick you must concentrate on testing or rather just food to eat or quantity because he now isolation nowadays so be it be that make this. high that actually we rely more on what symptoms rather than our test it also because we will never have become passive to test all the population regarding how to treat expression how to treat the coal at their school course that it difficult he even providing hope here providers to all they print. good measure
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i would sell for any intensity in the intensive care unit we use of the same towards that the same i'm asked for one single chair now and we use the surgery mask on the top because we don't have to i protected mask to be changed every patient many doctors especially in that territory says that we have normal ask that we cannot go to those of the patients are told but of course and this is a biggie ship for us because otherwise all of it should we come too close to go out and we will not have the capacity to treat them all ok just finally in very briefly obviously a lot of repercussions of that of investment in the italian health service and health services across the european union have that you had any cases of those who have been infected by covert 1000 who have recovered from covert 1000 and then have been reinfected not so far nevertheless and there's a lot of uncertainty about how much is protected they even junichi provided by 1st grown up iris to take ships because of their product or we
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are just testing if the virus is present we are not testing which antibodies are predictable or with cellular immunity is protected at last the 1st search is ongoing not that it's on the course of this will be crucial as soon as a back signal will be available in order to forecast the level of protection that will be provided by docs nation it's crucial to doat how much we will be able to box in a bit low population and to what extent that this vaccine will be effective in order to avoid and this is the scene that you just will turn to be a suitable disease like employment or giovanni growled a thank you and bush well while the global pandemic may threaten millions of his billions who are threatened by another catastrophe arguably not being properly prepared for by earth riches nations joining me now is extinction rebellions dr richard reid ribble welcome back to going underground going on directly for extinction rebellion the area wearing a hat and i get demick. and before we even start when it comes to this crisis the
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reflectivity been criticizing the. b.b.c. coverage of the boris johnson administration's response presuming it is public information is going to be vital in this crisis absolutely the government has not been publicizing its models they are now emerging very late in the day that's not acceptable we need full transparency we need a lot more information about corona virus than we have because we're hardly doing any testing in this country similarly in the united states the numbers that we have on the pandemic they're all massive underestimate because of the incredibly low number of tests and because so many people who have coronavirus are asymptomatic for quite a while while they have and while their infectious sewage the volunteers the chief scientific advisor submerging vallance will say well you don't know that because we haven't had the and this is just a. competition when people like the editor of the law and sort of making
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extraordinary claims that somehow this was entirely preventable because of the herd immunity response look we know for sure that the numbers are a hell of a lot higher than the official numbers we don't know exactly what they are but we know there are a lot higher now in terms of the prince ability of this richard horton the editor of the lancet is exactly correct many scientists have been mourning for some time and i come at this from the perspective of the precautionary principle the idea that when we don't know something we want to protect ourselves against what we don't know in the case of this emergency this virus it's unprecedented we don't know what effects it has we don't know for example whether it might have neurological effects where that might leave permanent lung damage we don't know a great deal about how it's transmitted yet we're gradually finding out but there's a lot we don't know looking for help until now living to let me just finish the point when we when we don't know that kind of stuff we need to her on the side of safety that's what it is to be precautious and that is exactly what the u.k. and u.s. governments have not. doing they haven't been keeping us safe all the provinces
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father so early georgia says that he will still go to the pub in any case but i think the government would say they were earning on the side of caution when they saw that a herd immunity response would kill courtroom 1000000 people in britain this term herd immunity i think it was a very honest to be using their idea was let's let this pandemic rip through the population and try to control it from hitting the most vulnerable we try to keep them cocooned this had the likely consequence as you say that we could have hundreds of thousands of people dying in this country now why would any government do that let me put something quite controversial here i believe that the only way it could make sense for somebody to think of doing that is if they didn't enormously think of themselves as part of this heard that was going to be knowingly infected with the disease knowingly recklessly endangering the population and
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i would claim thinking that they themselves would be part of that percentage of the population that were not going to be infected ok well the harvard school of public health. hazard seemed to agree with you think it was it was but why is it then that the b.b.c. certainly is reporting new the science is changed that's why boris johnson has changed his advice to the british population as regards going out of doors so the imperial results that the government is changing your goal of building material college. they are new in themselves but the substance of what they're saying is precisely what the lancet was saying 2 months ago is precisely what nassim taleb and i have been saying for weeks on end a back of an envelope calculation shows that hundreds of thousands are at risk from this virus if you let it hit most of the population do the same and data brokers are the main brokers doing this going to. 3 is wrong about the science having
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changed the problem with the b.b.c. coverage is that they've been and the i.t.v. coverage is that they've been far too deferential towards the state they said things like for example well boris johnson is for only following the scientific advice because of course he goes out there flanked by the chief medical officer and the chief scientific adviser but that doesn't mean they're making the policy the policy was very influenced for example by the knowledge and psychology unit that is close to 10 downing street who were saying look you're not going to be able to convince people to socially isolate the long periods of time therefore you've got to wait before you impose that those kinds of restrictions but that was groundless what we've actually seen wonderfully over the last week is the british population moving ahead of the government and saying look it's just not good enough we're not convinced that you're keeping us safe anymore we are bringing the government into line and we are bringing the broadcasters into line actually the science all the way along different scientists been saying different things the safe thing to do
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the precautions thing to do was never to put the whole population into a kind of massive uncontrolled experiment no where else in the world was planning to do this i am here in london with us sharon and there are still flights taking off from from london airport from city airport except for those flights are because london is an epicenter now those flights are spreading the virus around this country and as we speak just finally very briefly i know that it's ensure bellina curbing some of the. demonstrations i understand there's a whistle blowing project in case anyone watching this program was to give you information that could help not only regarding corona virus but on fossil fuel emissions globally yeah yeah yeah so we had this site it's called truth teller dot life w.w.w. dot to fill a dot life and the idea is if there are secrets that are lurking in any pharmaceutical company in any bank and any insurance company whatever it might be in government.
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get them out the public need and deserve to know about threats to their safety on this or any issue professor robert reed thank you after the break who's really just blame for the low could be bombing that killed 270 people on british soil we speak just as lester i were on when i was working to tell you the name of the only man ever to be convicted for the u.k.'s worst terror attack well the symbol going up about to him going on the ground. to stand up as a nation from which to show him to us and investors. for the president has come out for the for the for the river trip to improve for richer monopolies you have to try to project from the. problems.
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it was because of global was going to have to pull to its knees is that in your voice you. must have looked like the office for moving this part of the family and you're fighting. over pushing up. on the left coast fortunate enough photos of so much business in the south. welcome back in the past few days as the coronavirus crisis began to dominate international news the scottish criminal cases review commission made a decision about the biggest of a terror attack on british soil the bereaved have been campaigning for justice for over 3 decades since the lockerbie bombing which killed $270.00 people after pan am
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flight 103 crashed the only man ever to be convicted was a libyan intelligence officer mcgrath he but now there is to be a posthumous appeal joining me now from our studio in glasgow is an astronomer unworried lodged an appeal on behalf of mcgrath his family and has described his conviction as the worst miscarriage of justice in british legal history thank you so much on my for coming on just before we get to lockerbie i've got to ask you because corona virus is obviously in the ed lines you helped arguably put the murdoch news of the world out of business its successor the sun on sunday came out that's the chosen output by one of the top scientific adviser on coronavirus to boris johnson what do you make of using murdoch outlets for information i think as a as a little pool boy most people would find that shocking effect the fact that the government is repeatedly using. one particular newspaper. called the health a few days ago used to telegraph a pay wall in order to put public information is simply not acceptable all
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newspapers all t.v. stations should be getting exactly the same information that should be given favoritism to one but i think it's it's outrageous and i and the process and the result of course is that they are cutting off parts of society that refuse to buy such papers but also means the information is not getting gates and in a uniform fashion and it is scaring people i have older parents who are scared reading what they see tippets in the news and tabloids signal except well it's not the way a reasonable rushed. no well informed government should be behaving it's shocking in fairness of our sons in government i'm sure they say they are rectifying some of the problems before we obviously invite the barclay brothers owners of the telegraph and rupert murdoch on the show but let's get the lockerbie a lot of people are going to think that this case was done and dusted over 20 allez deal with the late more maga daffy what exactly is this case and why are you were pressing it given that al mcgrady has been convicted of this case he was
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of course 1st accused by a cia asset in libya back in the days when great get halfway around the one of the richest countries in africa per capita while it on the 21st december 1988 pan am flight $103.00 exploded over lockerbie the town of lockerbie and $270.00 people from 21 countries lost their lives this was the as you said it's a tale it was the greatest terrorist atrocity to take place on u.k. soil and what it means is a many people have said to us why 30 or over 31 years later should be trying to take this back to the appeal court and it's as simple as this if there was a reversal of the verdict it would mean that the britain and britain and the united states and the security services have been living a monumental lie for some 31 years they incarcerated an innocent man and they punished the libyan people for a crime they did not commit and many people have for a long time pointed the finger of blame at the to run. and stated that they were
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responsible that they carried out a revenge attack when the americans murdered some several 100 iranians on an air bus 6 months before the lockerbie attack and yet for some reason the finger of blame then shifted when the 1st gulf war came along and it seemed an opportune moment to treat libya which was a pariah state and to point the finger of blame at that when they needed support from syria and from iran for the 1st gulf war no the bottom line here remains that mr mcgregor he do. actually starts his appeal there was strong grounds of appeal and the process started and then in 2009 when he was diagnosed with cancer pressure was placed upon him and he reasonably believed that unless he gave up his appeal he would not be allowed to return home to die with his to die in the presence of his family that was an unfortunate that was a horrific way to deal an individual who had already been incarcerated for a crime he did not commit and then he subsequently died and people for that was the end of the chapter in 2014 i met with the british relatives who are unique in legal
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history anywhere i can see in the world have supported the victims you know as victims' family members have supported members of the accused the convicted and the mcgrath the family agreed on in unison decided that we should try to take this case back to the court so it's been nearly 6 years of work we submitted an application to be getting that was refused and this time around the application succeeded and the scottish criminal cases review commission said that it was on the basis of an unreasonable decision any jury would have taken and also the non-disclosure of evidence and you know the fingerprints of the american security services the british security services the u.k. government and the british government all over this i don't really have hidden the what to actually took place and then the only place to decide the guilt or innocence of mr magara elmaghraby is of course in the scottish appeal court where we will be going and you cause ok i want to get also to the reprisal allegations concerning iran of course the united states killed $290.00 people on
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a civilian airliner the u.s.s. vincennes attack but this thing to what you just said because some people are going to be asking we can't get m i 5 and my 6 officers on the show or less why on earth them would mamma get up have accepted that mcgrath he did the deed and it was just to unfreeze bank accounts relieve sanctions and get a privatized british b.p. to get an oil deal well i mean i can't i can't answer for this to get happy i am. what the bottom line here is that there had to mean much disclosure over the years of the shenanigans of the british and the americans who have always been desperate to get their hands on oil who've been desperate to tie up arms and weapons deals you know tony blair the deal in the desert and at the end of the day if your country has been subjected to economic sanctions and your people are suffering and you see a way out of it then of course a sacrificial lamb will be offered up that's the way that the mcgrath family and many people both the british shelter designed the libyan people see it on 31 years
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later the question the questions that remain of this case must be unset i think it's pretty obvious that for anybody who's viewed how the british and the americans have acted with regards to the middle east on the i still continues to this day one only needs to look at what's happening in iraq one only needs to see what's happening with iran how. these authorities say these regimes in britain and america deal with that when it comes to you know the profits when it comes to the hands of oil or gas lines were they will be willing to do anything or not that bought the topic not applies to the question of lockerbie ok and indeed britain did support the united states bombing of iraq killing iraqi soldiers and police and civilian just last week but surely the last time around when mcgrady was convicted the evidence was heard of f.b.i. agents there u.s. helicopters of the law can be seen a violation of the integrity of the crime scene as alleged by the lawyer actually who now represents julian assange. has evidence of a cia operative on the flight all this evidence wasn't at the time before
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a verdict on mcgrath he's guilty as may well one of the crucial pieces of evidence that the man and i'm just quite wide range would be impossible for me to explain you know we had 451 pages delivered to my office last week by the scottish criminal kuwait cases review commission so that found the basis of it we have pieces we have evidence that would fill 2 floors of a building but if you look at one crucial piece of evidence which was not disclosed to the defense of the time and as the evidence of mr gates a man who owned. shop who fingered pointed the finger of blame momma. and said that he was the person who brought the call big in his shop some 10 years later 12 years later he pointed at me and subsequently what we find out once a clase is closed once guilt is pronounced is that this man was offered in the region of $2000000.00 money offered also to his brother to identify mr. mr mr mehlman groggy and that he got this wrong on a number of occasions he was shown photographs he was shown magazines he was wined
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and dined and he was brought to give evidence now in any other normal murder trial if it was revealed to the defense that an individual has been told on the basis of their evidence if he points at the right person and accuses them of murder then them that trial would be flown out and there would be an inquiry an investigation into the police the security says anybody that i don't try to offer a bribe or any juice me to a witness yet in this case the worst case of mass murder on u.k. soil none of that happened there was no disclosure and the the commission delivered a damning indictment of the role of the crone and others who were involved in this piece of evidence not just one crucial piece of evidence that we hope to take back to the appeal court and of course there are there are many other pieces about this is a present some of them to some of the witnesses that you might desire to have in the appeal stage presumably some of them have died i mean for instance there's a man called ma increase that too was a bomb maker reputedly again according to the lawyer because it worked with the militant group backed by iran the disrespected he was an undercover jordanian
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intelligence agent apparently jordan's intelligence services link to the cia what will you be able to get him i mean is going to develop as a solicitor to get any of these people to testify on behalf of that that's true enough terms of that but what we need to remember is that the appeal is not a rerun of the trial you know we have several groans of appeal that we would wish to launch the commission appointed to but some many of the grounds have been incorporated into. question of an unreasonable verdict but in the case of mr gates he's dead however we still have what evidence he gave in the question for the commission the question for the appeal court would be to decide is it reasonable to have allowed the evidence critical evidence of an individual like this on the answer we suspect would be no that is why the commission has referred it back to the appeal court so you don't much need to resurrect the date to even to come to court but we won't be going to court to stand up and produce evidence that let's say another country was responsible or that this was all we required to show is that the verdict was unreasonable that the non-disclosure of the evidence meant
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that this conviction was unsafe and as a result of which you know mr al mcgrath he should have a miscarriage of justice and that conviction should be overturned and that would also apply to the people of libya on the libyan people you know and the country that have suffered so much as a result of this you know the pariah state always when you mention the name of god when i speak to their family the name is always one of attached to the lockerbie bomber when you speak to libyan people they say they always they are attached to the lockerbie bombing this is important it's about rett it's about rectifying history and he said by actually asking the questions of the british and americans why did you do this you know why did you lie to your own people why did you like to 21 countries why did you conduct such a cover up still has reverberations through the globe tool today and it's about making sure that those policies are corrected and people are held to account do you have to prove that the evidence not being disclosed was because of a money line motive or could it be accidental i'm just thinking that they will be
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looking for a motive surely and the most you know it has been floated is that mrs thatcher was told by george w. bush george herbert walker bush sorry to keep the lockerbie investigation loci even after they had already got suspects for the for the terror attack well. i don't think is a case of that we need to require to find a motive they dishy was if there is non disclosure then it's critical to the defense if the crime. fail to tell the defense a crucial piece of evidence that might clear and the accuse they're not that's that's all that counts it doesn't matter about their motivation but of course you're quite right and i even today when last week 451 pages landed on my desk and i opened the you know the documents and i skimmed through them and all of a sudden i saw a black redacted pages and i asked the commission what's this and what we find out was that even to today that the united states government the british government the federal republic of germany and security services had refused to disclose
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information that they relate to the commission and i got them to give an undertaking to say that would that would not be disclosed to defense so whilst information was provided to the commission as a result of which the commission said no we believe there is a serious risk of a miscarriage of justice and this should be referred by to be local we were not given privy we were not given access to the information of course we will fight for that information but that's we can put that to the site because the bottom line really comes down to this if there's a piece of information it's relate to court as evidence and the 3 judges are not able to see that information and therefore you know come to a considered decision in the same way that judy what then that means that there is a miscarriage of justice and that is all that is required to be done in that courtroom all night day saying that that not almagro he should never ever have been convicted of the worst act of murder on british soil dahmer and i thank you thank you as ever the show will be back on saturday for a special edition of going on the ground with the man who inspired the new war figures from malcolm x. to john lennon garrick utley 17 years after the u.s. u.k. war in iraq that left millions killed maimed or displaced until then join me on the
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ground by following up on you tube twitter facebook instagram and time for. the outbreak and spreading the coronavirus has become a black swan event for the global economy is no longer whether the u.s. and other economies will slip into recession the question now is how deep and how long the recession will last. it's going to get worse before it gets better.
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president trump invokes a war era act as an emergency response to the corona virus outbreak forcing companies to up production of essential appointment. also this hour the e.u. shuts its borders for a month to limit the spread of kobe's 19 friends takes the strictest measures in the block as our correspondent reports from paris anybody leaving the pope he has also been told that they need to run the system to start soon to stay behind. and the world and world health organization urges countries to take a leaf out of beijing's book and impose tougher restrictions to fight the as a situation in china itself begins to eat.

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