bowles and alan simpson followed the principle that you should get rid of a lot of the exemptions and credits and deductions and loopholes that both individuals and corporations benefit from. lower theuld actually rate if you wanted to and still get more revenue in, or dial up need, whatever you need to make it all work. i do not actually think revenue -- i do not think tax reform should be revenue neutral. >> a quick factual point. the $1.3nly 10% of trillion tax expenditure we forgo is from the corporate side. i think is -- it is the issue of fairness people raise. >> annabel fisher. i will direct my question initially to bob but first to preface it as a trivia question best for all of you up there or maybe in the audience -- what country in the world has the most billionaires? the united states. i personally am tired of hearing these talking points. of insultedd sort the people in the midwest and other parts of -- that they are not aware and engaged. >> i don't think i said it. >> we don't care about knowing about the budget. to bob -- i was very involved in the concorde coalition

it's another one of those things when we s my naivete erskin bowles and to do a reform unless there's tax increase. and the republicans say we're doing a tax increase unless there's an entitlement reform. businessman you're going, gee, this is pretty logical. son of a gun, this thing is going to work. here we sit. so is it a deal along the lines a likely e describing outcome. bond market intervene and create the crisis environment that you're describing that causes a lurch towards a revolution. what's the outcome at this stage? >> oh, it's tough to know. because as you guys know better markets are nd unpredictab unpredictable. it's interesting, again, to show the difference between business and politics. we have these conversations, we need to do this thoughtfully, way a great he country does. they say what happened? you know, ten-year notes go to 7%. home mortgage is a ten and auto loan is a 13. have aow you're going to main street problem and you're it.ng to feel their question would be, well, when does that happen? what have an idea of corner, what year that happens. well, they'll