where are pakistan's nuclear weapons? when we went in and got osama bin laden, the reaction of most pakistani generals was not oh, my god. responsestani generals was if they can do this, could they steal our nuclear arsenal? it is apples and oranges. one person versus a couple of hundred nuclear weapons is a hugely different. that is their reaction. it tells you they regard us as the existential threat along with india. >> it is sometimes said that if iran gets a nuclear weapon, the saudis would go to their friends of pakistan who they have given a lot of money and say we need some weapons. is that your understanding? >> certainly a lot of smoke about that. very close relations. there was no closer relationship than the one between saudi arabia and pakistan. week ise minister this in saudi arabia meeting with all the officials. he has lived there in exile for them first decade of the century. i do not have proof positive. i do not have a signed contract. extremist, if saudi arabia goes to pakistan and says we need nuclear

there is no closer relationship than the one between saudi arabia and pakistan. prime minister sharif this week is sending in saudi arabia meeting with all of the saudi senior royals, he has lived there in exile for most of the first decade of this century. yes. i think -- i don't have proof positive, i don't have a signed contract, i don't think anyone has a signed contract, but in extremis if saudi arabia goes to pakistan and says we need nuclear weapons it is going to be pretty hard for any pakastani leader to say no. >> rose: no. >> i hear you. there is also this question. do the saudis worry a lot about the fact that something like the arab spring could come to them? >> absolutely. when the arab spring began, king abdullah invested 13 $130 billin in buying off the saudi population. that's a lot of money. even for saudis. that tells me that he and the other royals were worried it could happen to them. and they responded in the best way they could. make sure everyone has got everything they want, try to buy everybody off. i think it worries them a lot. i think

>> helping the pakistans to make them secure but the pakistans don't want our help because they are convinced any help we give them in securing the nuclear weapons is an act to clandestinely figure out where the nuclear weapons are and they're probably right about that. >> charlie: why won't they bleat us talk to a.q. khan? >> a.q. khan didn't pirate nuclear material all around the world by himself. he had the help of the pakistani army. he was able to fly around the world in pakistani air force jets and sell stuff and have it delivered. the last time i checked on expedia you can't get apactiony jet to deliver you or stuff for you. the pakistani military was involved and a lot of the politicians were intimately involved like bhutto. >> charlie: bhutto was involved in what way? >> the early negotiations with north korea on exchanging nuclear secrets in terms of missile parts. she even admits it in her memoirs. if mr. khan was on your show and told you the truth, it would be highly embarrassing for the government of pakistan and for many, many pakistanis. >> charlie: yet he's a national hero in

no one realized that pakistan was playing both sides of the fence. and still are. you start from that base, of course you're not going to know how much arms are in the hands of the afghan army at this stage. we did not do her homework for seven years. .- our homework for seven years it is hard to catch up in the eighth and ninth year of the conflict. >> why is it so hard to build an army in a country like a -- afghanistan? >> a good question. the soviets in the 1980's built-in afghan air force which is three or four times larger than what we have built in afghanistan over the last decade. that is amazing to me. what could the soviets trained them to fly airplanes and not us? russian manuals and teach them in russian? it comes down to a question of resources. resourcesngest time went to iraq. when we started the resources in 2009 and 2010, we imposed a timeline on how long it was going to be. we -- we can still pull those out but all along the way the day we went into afghanistan in 2001 we have inflicted demo -- damage on ourselves over and over again. brightest, t

moment after they've been suicide bombed, seen the military and iraq and afghanistan, i've been in pakistan with suicide bombings but there was something about this place that really affected me. i think, you know, part of it was just the expanse of it. 13 square miles of pieces of plane and people. part of it was the emptiness and the quietness of it. usually you come upon a disaster of those proportions and you think, "ok there's going to be police, police tape, rescue vehicles." and you know there were some rescue workers milling around. >> no supervision. >> no one was in charge going through the field taking photographs, measuring things. there were a handful of journalists and there were not really many people left in eastern ukraine about point in these people -- >> and their possessions. >> that was the other thing that was difficult to absorb. they were all in these tall grasses. you could not see them from the road. you literally have to walk through the grass and sort of come upon them. the field was scattered with this very strange assortment of things. there were peacocks. ther