i haven't seen biden's poll numbers. look, joe biden was never going to make it. he was never going to make it. he tried it twice. he's at 1%. there's a reason. when i announced i went to number one, day one and i stayed there the entire primary season. i never was off center stage. i was never given credit for that, but that's okay, except by steve. the only one that gave me credit was steve. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> who? >> [ inaudible question ]. >> no. they were trying to set up a meeting. he wanted sanctions lifted and i said you must be kidding. rouhani wanted a meeting at the u.n. we did talk. i didn't speak to him personally. our sides talked. he wanted sanctions lifted or partially lifted and i said no. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> we're watching venezuela very, very closely. the people are suffering and we're watching it very closely. we're also giving big aid to venezuela. one thing, i'm now going to walter reid hospital. we're going to be giving out five purple hearts to unbelievably brave young people. some of you are going over. i think some of

that was when biden got in. fast forward we had all the debates, different developments, controversies on the campaign trail. here is what the national polling average looks like now. notice that. joe pieden is no longer in first place. elizabeth warren has taken -- this is very minor in terms of the difference here but two tenths of a point she still is higher right now in the national polling average than biden. a huge jump over the last few months, and joe biden meanwhile falling from 41 to about 26. then 14.6 right now. so that's been the big story over the last few months or so in this democratic race. elizabeth warren has steadily risen. she's now taken the lead. the question is she going to be able to keep rising, keep building the ligz she put together or is she going to hit a ceiling? biden, by the way, has fallen from about 41 to about 26. late he seems to have stabilized out there. a big sort of potential turning point here in the democratic race, but with parn taking the lead ever so slightly you can

they should investigate the bidens. because how does a company that's newly formed and all these companies if you look -- by the way, likewise, china should start an investigation into the bidens. because what happened in china is just about as bad as what happened with ukraine. i would say that president zelensky, if it were me, i would recommend that they start an investigation into the bidens because nobody has any doubt that they weren't crooked. that was a crooked deal, 100%. he had no knowledge of energy. didn't know the first thing about it. all of a sudden he's getting $50,000 a month plus a lot of other things. nobody has any doubt. and they got rid of a prosecutor who was a very tough prosecutor, they got rid of him. now they're trying to make it the opposite way. so if i were the president, i would certainly recommend that of ukraine. [ talking at the same time ] [ inaudible ]. >> i haven't, but it's certainly something we can start thinking about because i'm sure that president xi does not like being under t

and so this is not looking good for biden. it's raising serious questions about whether he is going to be equipped to balance both now a sort of general election battle, as he tries to combat these onslaught of gop attacks when it comes to the ukraine scandal, and he also has to keep his eyes on the prize, which is the primary debate. so i think the challenge for biden is going to be trying to strike that balance between the two, not having the fundraising is obviously a huge problem for him. that's why some of his allies are actually considering launching a super pac that would independently sort of defend biden. meanwhile, the dnc is not lifting a finger to help biden with some of these attacks related to ukraine, partly because they don't want to be seen as violating their pledge to stay neutral in the primary. but you have the gop with a massive war chest. trump has $125 million that he just raked in, so this is a problem for the biden campaign. >> i want to thank you both. again, it's always at the end of a long week on a

son, hunter biden. nbc's claudio labongea's in rome, matt bradley's in kiev. they're both following the overseas developments for us. with a welcome to you both, first to claudio in rome, where pompeo began his trip four days ago. it seems like the secretary of state is finally ready to talk about ukraine. what are you hearing? >> reporter: that's right, alex. well, what a difference a day makes, doesn't it? yesterday, while the secretary of state was in montenegro, he just refused to answer any questions related to the inquiry. well, today, he couldn't stop talking about it. and what he did, well, he did not mince his words. now let's listen to what he said. >> i think there's clearly politics involved in this. this administration was incredibly focused on making sure that we worked with ukraine in a way that was appropriate. and it is not only appropriate, but it is our duty to investigate. if we think there was interference in the election of 2016, i think everyone recognizes that governments have an

he's talking about corruption by joe biden. joe biden is not in office. if the president was interested in getting rid of corruption in the american government, it is an odd place to start with somebody who doesn't actually hold an office. rudolph giuliani has been traveling the world, cooperating with the state department. we've got reports of him dropping off dossiers at the state department, potentially. he goes on television talking about how he's being silenced which is a very odd place to talk about being silenced. i'm not sure what he's trying to do other than rally support to himself in a public relations sense. i know the yankees were on television tonight. it might be time to take in some television instead of going on. >> did he go to the yankee game tonight of i hasten to add along with allen dershwitz in his regular seats. of what we know will happen next week, anything you can share with us? obviously at this pace, you want to get a good laugh out of the guy upstairs telling your plans for tomorrow. it was just yesterday, after all, the pres

but otherwise, biden, biden, biden, biden, biden, biden. seven of the eight polls since the debate, biden has led in. what does that mean? if you average every poll together, this is probably the fairest snapshot of where the democratic race stands nationally. biden is still in first, warren a little more than five points behind, sanders. remember, all those predictions that sanders was going to fade out bought of his health scare, he's still sitting there at 17%. that's probably the fairest readout nationally on what the shakeout of the debate is. individual polls can take you in wildly different directions. trust the averages when that happens. >> okay, steve, at the risk of mucking up your beautiful presentation, tell me the poll i saw today that has biden in iowa in fourth place because all roads lead through there, but this may explain why the biden campaign has been saying iowa shmiowa, wait until you see us in south carolina. >> yeah, so take a look here, this is an iowa state poll that came out today. warren in first in iowa. buttig

biden? >> you know, i can tell you that, you know, like i said, it's clear that the president is concerned. and i think this is why this is the direction that he's gone in. but what i hear from people is that we have the take lessons from the 2016 election. we can't -- in the words of spike lee, we cannot be bamboozled this time. so we've got to keep our eyes on the prize. i think this is sort of more of the bait and switch that we see. you know, it's funny. i give a lot of speeches in my state, and a lot of times i'll just reach up on a bookshelf to try to find an inspiration, and have i this little book of quotes that i found, and i opened it up and these were franklin delano roosevelt quotes. it said "representation does not transform a lie into a truth." right now we have a lot of lying going on. and i don't care how many times you say it, it doesn't become the truth. so i think we need to keep our eyes on the prize and remember joe biden is the person who cuts across america. he's got s

his son, hunter biden? is he right? >> it's [ bleep ]. from first word to the last word. >> did people here in ukraine, investigators like yourself, anti-corruption activists, think that shokin was doing a good job that he was effective? >> absolutely not. shokin was corrupt, ineffective prosecutor. it was international partners of ukraine that shokin was a disaster, he had to go. he was intimidating investigators in his office. >> biden was pushing for someone who be more aggressive, more actively looking into burisma and other companies? >> that's correct. >> giuliani is rewriting what happened. shokin was a prosecutor who was widely viewed by experts as being a holdover from the pro-moscow yanukovych era, who wasn't doing an adequate job in prosecuting burisma, the gas company, or lots of other corruption issues. and there was a general agreement that it was time to get him out. >> victor shokin was formally let go with a vote in ukraine's parliament. a new prosecutor general, yuri letsenko, took over qu

back biden's 2020 bid. warren and sanders battle it out for second place with warren securing 18% of south carolina democrats support. that is up four points in september. among democrats in 18 early primary and caucus states, elizabeth warren leads the democratic field with 31% of support, joe biden falls closely behind at 25. 17% say they back bernie sanders. and americans are also being asked about their top issues heading into tuesday's debate. once again, health care comes in at 87%. climate change staggering at 79%, an and income inequality at 70%, notably 52% said the impeachment of president donald trump is also a very important issue. you get a sense of where the voters mind-set is going into the debate. >> since we've been talking about the 2020 election for a year or so, health care has been one of the most important issues. let's get a check on your weather. >> i feel like the chill is in the air. it's time to break out the winter coats. we've already had about three rounds of winter weather for

absolutely not. >> that was hunter biden. joe biden's son. defending himself for the first time against donald trump's smear campaign. insisting his involvement with the ukrainian gas company was in no way improper or unethical, adding up to what he described there as poor judgment. that interview coming at an interesting time, though. in matter of hours joe biden will be on stage in ohio for the fourth primary debate where he and his fellow democrats will now almost certainly be asked about former vice president biden's son. a.b., john heilemann, the table, are back. john, how's this going over there? does this change the sort of strategy or the approach? do they -- do they -- what do they do with this? >> well, i think -- i think, nicolle, the reality is that the biden campaign has been consistently slow on trying to deal with this moment in which the vice president has been placed at the center of the most obsessively focused on story in american politics right now. he's the only democrat who's part of this story because donald trump has m

they should investigate the bidens. likewise, china should start an investigation into the bidens. because what happened in china is just about as bad as what happened with -- with ukraine. >> that came just moments after president trump addressed the ongoing trade war with china. >> china's coming in next week, we're going to have a meeting with them. i have a lot of options on china. but if they don't do what we want, we have tremendous -- tremendous power. >> late last night the president defended his push to have foreign governments investigate allegations of corruption. he tweeted, as the president of the united states, i have an absolute right, perhaps even a duty, to investigate or have investigated corruption and that would include asking or suggesting other countries to help us out. he later added this isn't about a campaign, this is about corruption on a massive scale. so, again, michael steele, the president is very concerned about corruption around the world. >> he is. >> particularly when it involves someone who is running to perhaps be his opponent in the 2020 electio

in 2013, hunter biden joined his dad vice president biden on an official trip to asia. at the same time biden was forming a chinese -- unhunter w forming a fund. and he says that he met with a banker and called it a social visit. ten days after, china issues a business license clearing the way for a fund. talk to me about how we should think about this. >> is this a great example of something that would have been a news story had jblg become toe the nominee as part of the normal scrutiny that we give to every candidate. and it doesn't look very good. it looks about as smarr any as hunter biden getting a $50,000 a month job on the board of a gas company. but no evidence that i've seen that anyone has brought to the fore that joe biden took any steps in his official capacity to 5id his son. you could argue should he have instructed his adult son to not take these jobs that seem to jive with his authority in government is this absolutely. and people have written that and said that. and this stuff was covered at the time and people said it was problematic. but the things th

instead of going after biden, they let biden flounder on his own a bit, stumble over his own words, and instead go after warren to show themselves as the alternate warren, that they were the one who could be the counterbalance. if you're a little uncomfortable with elizabeth warren's positions, you don't need to go to joe biden. you can come to me, amy klobuchar. i have a experience. i'm from the midwest, the heart land, and stake out that for themselves. if anything shifts which i don't know if it will at this point, i can see one of them being able to pick up moderate votes from people on the fence. >> david, they were going for voters like you. they're going for voters who are more in the moderate sphere, people who might not be comfortable with elizabeth warren. if you look at the cash on hand, buttigieg has a lot of money out there. more really left on hand than biden. out of the klobuchar/buttigieg moderate wing tonight, who do you think was more resonant for voters like you? >> look, let me start by saying i find myself as a former republican, never-trumper, always more encouragi

at the end of the day, i think it's most important joe biden be joe biden. the joe biden we know and love. i am sure he will do quite well in the deba it this week. >> you are the mayor of one of america's largest city and certain will i the dominant city in the south in terms of international reputation. does it concern you that the democrats in a primary fight may give the perception is that there are things in a general election could be held against the party and in many ways make people feel na the democratic party is much more extreme in some of its policies than really central democrats are and people like you have to manage and govern cities and work with people in washington and you want to see people that are willing to work with you? >> well, mayor al, i know as mayor it can't be all or nothing. if you truly want to get something done or accomplished. and i think that's what separates the vice president from others, because he served at the executive level before. what i know as mayor is that you can be as far right on some issues as you can be as

biden and his son hunter. and this is what the president had to say about our former ambassador earlier today. >> mr. president, why did you recall the u.s. ambassador to the ukraine? was she a problem? wide di you recall her? >> i heard very bad things about her, and i don't know if i recalled her or somebody recalled her, but i heard very, very bad things about her for a long period of time. >> back with us tonight, we are so happy to have michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia. and ambassador, let me start with the start. the only reason we know any of this in addition to the fact the existence of the whistleblower complaint is that phone call in july. it seems to me about half the west wing payroll was listening in on a dead key to that phone call, including our secretary of state. how rare is that? >> well, in my experience, extremely rare. i worked for three years at the white house, prepped many phone calls with foreign leader, including the leaders of russia. never was a secretary of state on

and biden's son. and he also wants china to start investigating hunter biden's business connections there answer throw there has been no evidence of wrongdoing by the bidens. >> i would think that if they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the bidens. it's a very simple answer. uh, they should investigate the bidens. likewise, china should start an investigation into the bidens, because what happened in china is just about as bad as what happened with, uh, with ukraine. >> this as tensions at the white house are reaching a boiling point and more administration officials are becoming embroiled in the impeachment inquiry including now vice president mike pence's role. "the washington post" reporting trump instructed pence not to attend the inauguration of ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky in may. a month later the president used pence to tell zelensky that u.s. aid was still being withheld while demanding more aggressive action on corruption, officials said. and at th

son, hunter biden. president trump's pursuit of political dirt about the bidens in the ukraine triggered the impeachment inquiry. and hunter has become a target personally of president trump. in the interview hunter biden defended his overseas work but also said his involvement in the border of a ukrainian gas company was, quote, poor judgment. biden did benefit from his father's name and position. >> it's impossible for me to be on any boards without saying i'm the son of the vice president of the united states. >> if your last name wasn't biden, would you have been asked to be on the board of burisma? >> i don't know. probably not. there's a lot of things that wouldn't have happened in my life if my last name wasn't biden. >> kate, nice to see, happy debate day. >> thanks for having me, chuck. >> let me start with, your campaign seemed pretty emphatic that hunter biden shouldn't have to go out there, you guys didn't need to be answering questions about hunter biden, he had nothing to answer for, that

how about biden at 78? 28% said joe biden would be too old. these are democrats. how about this? bernie sanders 79. 43%. remember, this coming after he had that heart attack a couple weeks ago. they polled this question before. the last time they did sanders the number was down in the 30s. it is now moved up to 43%. again, to the extent that matters to democrats, not quite clear. but there is a big difference there. 71, 79, 43, 4 in terms of saying too old. interesting finding. up next a look at why tomorrow's democratic debate could be a moment of truth for many candidates. you're watching "hardball." woman 1: i had no symptoms of hepatitis c. man 1: mine... man 1: ...caused liver damage. vo: epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. vo: whatever your type, ask your doctor if epclusa is your kind of cure. woman 2: i had the common type. man 2: mine was rare. vo: epclusa has a 98% overall cure rate. man 3: i just found out about my hepatitis c. woman 3: i knew for years. vo: epclusa is only one pill, once a day, taken with or without food for 12 weeks. vo: before starting e

biden." "i got quite a bit of background on hunter biden from the chinese." mr. pillsbury told the "financial times." so, president trump is being impeached for asking ukraine to investigate joe biden. he then openly announces that he's doing the same thing with china and we learned that he has apparently raised this already not just on the white house south lawn in front of everybody but in a private call to the chinese president. the records of which have now been hidden away. and now he has apparently dispatched one of his china advisers to go to china to collect information on the biden family. whatever you can get from the chinese government. i mean, that's what this guy is saying. "i have got quite a bit of background on hunter biden from the chinese." very explosive claim in the middle of this impeachment inquiry. well, the same day that story appears in the "financial times," that gentleman, that adviser to trump on china, his name is michael pillsbury, he went on c-span that day and he was asked about it and this is like poetry. this is like every once i

biden campaign goes into power save mode. donald trump owned the biden narrative on ukraine as a result of what we witness and did not hear from biden, who did not step forward to tell his own story, millions of americans now are walking around and would say to a pollster, yeah, sounds like something hinky happened in ukraine with those bidens. >> i think people get confused. once you hear something over and over again, even if it is -- >> there you go. >> -- negative enforcement, has a huge impact. tim is right where elizabeth warren differs, she's very clear and concrete about where she is on a variety of issues and especially on this question of impeachment and i think joe biden has got -- you can see some of it today, really tightening up that message and willing to defend himself because, you know, they say with any candidate if you're not willing to defend himself, why should your supporters defend you? >> i'm the first one to blame the media. i'm going to do it in this next segment n this one, there's probably plenty o

is there a clear way, a clear narrative for somebody like joe biden, even hunter biden or the democrats to defend themselves from these types of attacks from the president when he's at a rally in front of thousands using that kind of language? >> no. i think unfortunately you're going to be in second place when you go up against the bully pulpit of the white house. the president has been clear he's going to use this tactic again like he used four years ago. i think what's also particularly disgusting werks know what joe biden and his family have sacrificed for his public service, he traveled back and forth to delaware to be his children that were injured. he lost a child, he lost a spouse early in his career. so to hear the president speak about his family in such cold, callous terms is particularly difficult. one other thing i'd bring up, let's not lose sight of the fact he went after somali immigrants at that rally which is about as dumb as you can get when it comes to political strategy. it's like going after african-americans in mish khan or cuban-americans in south florida. it make

we mentioned joe biden, of course, will be at the forum today, but it's his son, hunter biden, who is in the headlines back here in washington, thanks to the president's attacks against him. this time president trump is trying to highlight biden's connection to a country that's not ukraine but china, after a 2013 trip there. the president making more questionable allegations that, by the way, earned him him four stars from fact checkers. >> getting more attention for not what joe biden did, but for what he brought with him, his son hunter joining the then vice president on the official visit to beijing, along with hunter's daughter. unknown to the press back then, hunter biden was forming a chinese private equity fund, planning to raise money from chinese investors. years later hunter biden acknowledged that during the trip he met with the chinese banker, which his spokesperson describes as a social visit, not a business one. ten days after the bidens' trip, shanghai authorities issued the business license, something president trump was seized on as he pushes back against the impeachm

dirt on hunter biden. so we're going to take the most important bilateral relationship in the world, the principle geopolitical adversary of the united states, china, and we are going to put into the that mix a corruption investigation of hunter biden. and by the way, the chinese know how to do this. they do do politically motivated corruption investigation. it would be easy for them to say we'll try to get some dirt on president trump and maybe he'll make some concessions on things that actually matter to american workers. i'd be saying trump said he'd stand up to you when he faced up to the chinese and all he's doing is leveraging to get dirt on joe biden? that is not how you run a foreign policy. >> he's on the driveway there, on the south lawn and he said the chinese are investigating biden's son and somebody said are you going to ask him to investigate, in other words totally contradictory statements by him. by the way, they're already doing it but they're not doing it. he just lied. >> and he's also

but i didn't think, because i've watched biden over the years and biden is not the brightest person. i never thought he was going to win. >> and this comes after the president openly called only 24 hours ago for china to investigate his political rifva, throwing more fuel to the impeachment firestorm. now a defiant president trump refusing to turn over key documents, daring house speaker nancy pelosi to officially hold an impeachment vote as democrats threaten the white house with more subpoenas that could come as soon as today. joining me, nbc's kristen welker at the white house. nbc's geoff bennett on capitol hill. yamiche alcindor, pbs news hour. shannon pettypiece, senior white house reporter. and jeff mason, reuters white house correspondent extraordinaire. welcome, all. the president on the south lawn today saying it's about corruption, not about joe biden, and immediately going into joe biden. >> right, andrea, it was another extraordinary day on the white house south lawn. you saw the president defiant once again, doubling down, frankly, on his calls for ukraine and china to

joe biden, joe biden. >> also, widening impeachment inquiry, is turning to the vice president. >>> and behind the health scare. new information on bernie sanders' heart and what it means for his 2020 campaign. >> we've got breaking news for you this morning. there is into you reporting of what could become a major piece of evidence in the impeachment inquiry. "the new york times" reporting overnight, that a second intelligence official is considering whether to file a whistle-blower complaint about the president. seeking foreign help from ukraine against a political opponent. the times reporting the second official has more direct information about the events detailed in the first whistle-blower complaint and that the second official is among those interviewed by the intelligence leader, inspector general, to corroborate the allegations the whistle-blower. the new reporting highlights the lengths president trump and the inner circle have gone to to investigate the bidens. and remember the president himself has already admitted to this. >> if we feel there is corruption, we have a right

warren and biden. i believe it was in congress during a hearing, which kind of put warren on the map as espousing what i'd like to call economic populism and talking about how these large banks and financial institutions are taking advantage of people. that's a card warren has yet to play against biden, but i wouldn't be shocked if eventually it does get played. >> when it comes to bernie sanders, it's his first time back on the campaign. he's making his debut from his heart attack on the debate stage tonight. other than the moderators asking about it, do you expect any of the candidates make iing it an issue? >> i think it's also a very dicey question for other democrats just how much they're willing to go on the attack against each other. i think this is an issue where the other democrats are eager to do what they can at a time where perhaps bernie sanders is at his most vulnerable to appeal to his voters and try to win them over to their side and i think going directly at him is not as we've seen in

they should investigate the bidens. >> simple and incriminating. that's what trump wanted from ukraine as he withheld u.s. military support from president zelensky conditioning that support with these infamous words, i would like you to do us a favor, though. under increasing scrutiny trump is brazenly admitting in public now to the favor he asked in private. even worse he's now using his bully pulpit as president to publicly solicit more foreign dirt on joe biden. this time from china. >> by the way, likewise, china should start an investigation into the bidens. because what happened to china is just about as bad as what happened with ukraine. i haven't, but certainly something we could start thinking about. >> another bombshell exploded late today as the house committees deposed their first witness in the unfolding impeachment inquiry itself. "the washington post" reports the former special envoy to ukraine ambassador kirk volker testified today he warned giuliani he was receiving ukrainian information from political figures about joe biden. text

they still fear joe biden. they view him for a safe vote for democrats. >> thanks, nick. >> we'll are reading axios a.m. in a bit. all of our viewers, you too can sign up for that newsletter, sign up the axios.com. >> that does it for us this morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >>> let me start by asking you about reports that rudy giuliani is now under investigation and involving the ukraine. and there is some confusion as to whether or not you still consider him your attorney. is he your attorney? >> yes, and he's a great gentleman, he was a great mayor, one of the greatest -- maybe the greatest mayor in the history of new york. he was a fantastic prosecutor. i know nothing about him being under investigation. as somebody said ri, i heard a report today. i can't imagine it. he's a man that looks for corruption and whatever he does i believe he's a totally -- i mean, i know he's an honorable man. >> that honorable man is reportedly being investigated by federal prosecutors in manhattan for potentially bre

i think that's what biden has to do. >> you've got be joe biden on stage next to elizabeth warren who polls show has had a real surge since the last one. how do you think her status as the new front-runner might affect her? >> i'm curious to do so how much the impeachment debate may slow her rise. the impeachment debate really has the threat to her to sort of block out whatever momentum she had. i certainly think she needs to be prepared that they're coming after her. ultimately this is joe biden's debate and this is going to be a question about how much he can go toe-to-toe with the president and put the question about his son behind him. >> thanks to you both for being on. we're keeping a close eye on capitol hill. the president's former top adviser on russia is testifying now. she has been for about 35 minutes behind closed doors. we're also days away from the ambassador to the eu's testimony to lawmakers. new nbc news reporting on why that might blow a hole in the president's ukraine defense. but first the wife of a u.s. diplomat linked to a car crash that killed a british teenage

>> i think for the biden campaign, hunter biden is going to be an ongoing issue. if you take a step back, hunter biden was involved in two different countries, two different business deals at moments when his father was also working as the vice president to those countries on the foreign policy. there is an appearance of inpropriety in the era where the justice department and congress are cracking down on foreign lobbying. it's going to be difficult. i think hunter biden deciding to step down was a step towards acknowledging that an attempt to try to get people to move on from this issue. it's going to be hard. >> you have been critical of the reporting so far regarding potentially what we have seen with president trump as far as the leader of ukraine here. can't both sides be wrong? that which are the accusations against the bidens as well as the accusations against president trump? one does not necessarily mean the other is right. a wrong doesn't make a right. >> i agree with that. believe me. i don't think the appearance of what happened with biden and his son

joe biden. he has been attacking democrats. he's been attacking adam schiff. he's been attacking nancy pelosi. all of those things are actually what republicans in congress would like to see happen in terms of being able to have a unifying message. they think if it's a matter of red shirts versus blue shirts that's something they can get on board with instead of having to articulate the conspiracy theories, this entire idea that the russian intervention was a false flag by the ukrainians. >> while it does appear to many people that the president and the administration and the president is throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping it sticks with voters, if you were listening to many of those voters there in south carolina, it does appear as if some of the strategy and all of the attacks are working. >> i don't think there is any question that it will work with some of his supporters. and in fact probably the vast majority of them. but as a historian of impeachment, i'll tell you that richard nixo

biden behind with 27%. bernie sanders back in the campaign trail after suffering a heart attack, seeing the largest drop falling to 11%. it's the first debate since the start of the impeachment inquiry, centering on the president's controversial call with ukraine. and the first since president trump and his republican allies launched an assault on biden's son hunter. >> where's hunter? where is he? >> reporter: the former vp vowing to return to what he calls the squeaky clean environment in the obama white house while aimed squarely at trump. >> no one in my family or associated name will be involved in any foreign operation ever, period, end of story. >> reporter: and promising as president he would not pardon donald trump telling radio iowa. >> this guy does all of the these things to put us in jeopardy and he gets off? i think this is of a different nature. >> reporter: also tonight, for the first time, foreign policy could take center stage, with the crisis in syria escalating following the president's

about biden. i don't know if that's actually true. it doesn't quite add up for a couple of reasons. one is that the vice president's national security adviser keith kellogg listened in on that call that trump had with president zelensky. so would've been aware of everything that the president said to his ukrainian counterpart. and the other thing it just doesn't fit tight for pence. he is actually quite studious. he's somebody who tends to read his briefing materials who tends to do his homework to be prepared for foreign visits certainly and for sessions with forren leaders. he is unlike president trump in that regard. so the idea that he would sit down with the president of ukraine without actually reading the transcript of trump's call with ukraine or about being briefed on those contents is a little difficult to imagine. but at this point we just take the white house's word at face value, i guess. >> ambassador mcfaul, i get to talk to rachel maddow about her new book tomorrow. it's really lon

that's what weird about joe biden, by the way. trump is the one talking about joe biden. joe biden seems to have disappeared from the scene. >> you know this, they don't want to talk on trump's terms, i get that. >> that's not fair. he gave a powerful speech yesterday about trump. so i think that's a -- they've been giving him a little bit of hard -- i don't agree with that. >> he's out there and not raising money or he's not out there. >> the third quarter is always hard to raise money. >> thank you all. i'm running a little late. we'll be right back. m running a. we'll be right back. struggling i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchemel... cut. liberty mu... line? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ it's just the way things are. when you're under p

>> biden. >> biden is looking at both and he's not thrilled by either. it's true his numbers aren't dipping significantly and elizabeth warren's are growing significantly or at least steadily. the fund-raising, it was going to be hard for him to find more and more donors who can max out because he's relying on these in-person donations and in-person fund-raisers. when you have these big money donors, once they give you their $2800 check, they can't do it again. it's very hard to get more people to give you $2800 checks. obviously, other people have done it in the past. they're not thrilled with the fact they were beat by three other candidates in the last quarter for fund-raising. they're not very happy right now overall. their concern isn't that they're going to be dragged down immediately. their concern is it's giving people pause about joining the biden group, and biden's numbers may be essentially steady, but they're not growing and warren's are. >> what do you think, susan? what does biden need to do? >> biden, at this point, if he wants soosee some

. >>> and the bidens strike back. hunter biden announcing he will step down from a chinese investment company and stop doing any foreign business if his father selected president, as joe biden fiercely defends his son. >> no one, no one has asserted my son did a single thing wrong. no one has asserted that i have done anything wrong except the lying president. ♪ >>> and good day. i'm andrea mitchell in washington where president trump is trying to defend what our nbc first read team is calling a foreign policy disaster today. a total withdrawal by u.s. forces from northern syria, leaving kurdish fighters in a desperate situation, so desperate that these american allies are now turning to a war criminal for help, celebrating the arrival of president bashar al assad's military to slow the turk i turkish advance. president trump is playing the blame game tweeting that europe should have taken isis prisoners months before the u.s. withdrawal. then claiming the kurds may be releasing isis supporters on purpose to get ame

them to investigate joe biden's son. >> he's not running against joe biden's son. >> then why is he so obsessed with china going after joe biden's son when every poll says joe biden is the one among the democrats that can handily beat him? that's just a coincidence? >> first of all, joe biden is done. i mean, this race is over. and i want to know why is obama so silent on this? why isn't he standing up and defending his vice president. >> i didn't know obama was in office. we're talking about people that your administration that you support has put in as ig, they're supposed to do their job. he could have said there's no merit to this and cast it aside. he did not. he said that this is urgent and this is credible. are you calling the inspector general wrong on his call? what is the basis if you are? >> absolutely not. look, we should investigate. that is why the white house immediately released a transcript of that call. we want to be transparent. >> they released a summation. >> that's all there is for every call. i'm sure under the obama administration it was the same way. we want

detail up, whether you mentioned the bidens at all with him? >> well, as i said the day after that meeting, we focused entirely in my meeting with president zelensky of ukraine on the issues that president trump had raised as a concern, namely the lack of support from european partners to ukraine and issues of corruption in ukraine. those were the topics that we discussed. that was all we discussed. the simple truth is that those are the same issues that the president raised with president zelensky in their call. anyone who looks at the president's transcript will see that the president was raising issues that were appropriate, that were of genuine interest to the american people. >> greg miller is national security correspondent to "the "washington post."" it's great to have you here. i'm a fan of all your reporting. but this story jumps off the page, how is it going to land with the guy in the office with no corners? it seemed to me that pence did a little bit of dancing today. >> yeah, i mean, i think he's in a tough spot. he has so far in t

and joe biden. and the debate about is joe biden fighting back hard enough, is he handling this moment the way he should be handling it. this morning, here's an op-ed from him in "the washington post." he write our first president george washington famously could not tell a lie. president trump seemingly cannot tell the truth about anyone. he slandered anyone he sees as a threat. that's why he's pushing flat out lies, conspiracy theories and smears about my cantacy. this op-ed has come as many democrats are hand wringing a little bit. in fact, i think "the new york times" captures it pretty well today when they write, now mr. biden looks more vulnerable than at any point since he entered the campaign. he's not fully protected his family's prieskacy and taking the moral high road against mr. trump. >> the biden campaign appropriately and in a presidential way giving the facts, taking on trump, sticking to the issues. if you talk to the former vice president's allies, they say he's not responding forc

this isn't about joe biden. >> simone, always good to talk to you. thank you for joining me. >> thank you so much for having me. >>> coming up next, the further along we get into the impeachment inquiry into president trump, the further his support from voters slides. with a majority of americans saying the allegations that the president tapped a foreign leader to look into joe biden are serious and should be investigated. and that the president has not been truthful about his actions. steve kornacki is here to break down the numbers for us. ♪ as your life grows, so do your needs. ♪ and with bank of america and merrill, the benefits you get can grow, too. as a preferred rewards member, you can enjoy priority service and exclusive discounts... so your growing life can be more rewarding, too. ♪ what would you like the power to do? ♪ what would you like the power to do? aleve it. with aleve pm. pain happens. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid. and the 12-hour pain relieving strength of aleve. so...magic mornings happen. there's a better ch

hunter biden said i take no pleasure in watching this. he also said he wears these attacks from the president, from his allies, a feather in his cap. >> mike memoli, that tweet goes back to the emails. mike, thank you. let me bring in adrienne elrod former director of strategic communications if hillary clinton's campaign also in ohio and maria your bean nah, national political director for the indivisible project. angel, let me start with you. i want to play you more from hunter biden's interview with amy robach. >> do you think it's fine the trump children have been criticized for doing -- >> unlike them, i don't spend a lot of time thinking about them. i have to then answer questions about accusations made by probably the most unethical group of people we've ever seen in this republic. my dad doesn't have to defend me. my dad only has to love me. my dad loves me unequivocally. >> adrien, how big of a figure is hunter biden going to be in this debate? >> craig, i don't think we're going to hear one thing about hunter biden in this debat

and hunter biden? >> i don't know if that's a real request or him just needling the press knowing you guys were going to get outraged it. i think he did it to gig you guys, i think he did it to provoke you to ask me and others and get outraged by it. like i said, he plays it like a violin. that's not a real request. >> okay. first, he plays the media like a violin, only makes sense if he means trump plays the media exactly like he plays the violin, ie, very loud, very badly, and sometimes screaming at it for literally no reason. [ laughter ] >> all right, the former vice president joe biden has been caught off guard by the increased level of attacks from president trump. biden said quote, it is way beyond anything i quite frankly thought he would do. long-time confidants said he is surprised that the president has escalated his attacks so dramatically and so early. we're told biden's reluctance to discuss his family in the campaign is a major reason why he has chosen not to respond forcefully until rec

and hunter biden? >> i don't know if that's a real request or him just needling the press knowing you would get outraged by it and he plays it like a violin and everybody falls into it. that's not a real request. >> do you really think he was serious about thinking that china is going to investigate the biden family? >> why can't you answer yes or no? do you think it is appropriate. >> i don't, because i don't think what is what he did. >> well, i doubt if the china comment was serious to tell you the truth. >> you don't take the president at his word? >> no, the president love goes go out on the white house driveway, i haven't talked to him about this, i don't know what the president was thinking but i know he loves to bait the press. >> so president trump is escalating his attacks on joe biden and his son's dealings in ukraine and calling on the former vice president to end his 2020 bid. trump tweeted yesterday this. the biden family was paid off. pure and simple. the fake news must stop making excus