rudy giuliani. the u.s. ambassador to the european union testified when he and other members of a u.s. delegation including energy secretary rick perry urged president trump to call or meet with ukraine's new leader. trump's directed those of us present at the meet ing to talk to mr. rudy giuliani. his personal attorney about his concerns. it is clear rudy giuliani's mission from the president was dig up dirt on joe biden, on biden's son, hunter biden. to find out what trump calls the russian investigation witch hunt actually began in ukraine. while trump was urging the ukrainians to cooperate the conspiracy theory, hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid were being held up. mulvaney admitted last week. >> absolutely, no question about that. that's it. that's why we held up the money. >> reporter: the money was released by the president. his directive to rudy giuliani to get dirt on the biden did not stop. on october 9th, fruman and parnas were arrested at the airport. they had one way ticket europe

he's hearing things from rudy giuliani and rudy giuliani is a conduit for things he's hearing from officials or former officials in ukraine who are not pleased with the ambassador's position trying to fight corruption in that country. trump not only says he heard bad things about her but if you go back to the rough transcript of his call with the leader of ukraine, he tells the president of ukraine that bad things are going to happen to this ambassador. this is just a -- this all fits together. people who are not on board with this effort to get political dirt from ukraine are moved out of the way or are marginalized. >> she appeared today despite the administration trying to tell her not to. she defied the administration and appeared. what do you make of that? >> we may find out later what she is saying in these extraordinary hearing. i think it's still going on nine hours later. the fact of her appearance before the committee is as important as what ever she tells them because she is, as you say, defying the administration. the administration has tried to keep witnesses from testifying bef

could rudy giuliani be in some legal jeopardy? hours before these two individuals were arrested in washington's dulles international airport, he was having lunch with them at the trump international hotel here in washington. >> shimon and i were told by sources that he is definitely being scrutinized. investigators are looking at his involvement, his relationship, financial dealings with these two men, lev parnas and igor fruman. where is the money coming from? the indictment lays out a lot that the sources of the money were foreigners, including russia national, according to the indictment. the question i think the investigators are still trying to nail down is, is that it? is there more money? what are the business interests here that are at work and how does this tie to some of the political work being done here? joe biden and ukraine, he said he had sources there. these two men were very much key in that part of this. you can bet that's one of the things that investigators are looking at. >> i suspect we're only beginning to s

i haven't spoken to rudy. >> reporter: tonight president trump won't say if rudy giuliani is still his personal attorney. >> i spoke to him yesterday briefly. he's a veryattorney. >> reporter: the president's refusal to defend his lawyer coming as cnn has learned he's now having doubts about the man who has spent the last two years defending him. >> everything i did was to defend my client. >> reporter: but after two of his associates were arrested on campaign finance charges, there are growing concerns he's a political and potentially legal liability. questions trump himself has raised privately. >> are you concerned that rudy giuliani could be indicted in all of this? >> well, i hope not. again, i don't know how he knows these people. >> they're his clients. >> what? >> they're his clients. >> they're clients. he has a lot of clients. >> reporter: sources say trump has concerns about giuliani's involvement in the crimes of his two clients. efforts to replace him were already under way this week but hit a snag. >> i heard trey gowdy can't start until sometime after january because of

was rudy giuliani in any way making money off of this? financial dealings are one of the things that the fbi and prosecutors are looking at, as well as the overall relationship here, jake. >> shimon prokupecz, thank you very much. >>> president trump suggests that the hard core isis fighters are someone else's problem. stay with us. we'll go right there. in the workforce that's waiting for them. since verizon innovative learning, students have hardware, connectivity, and quality curriculum. the jobs of tomorrow will involve technology. now students are truly hopeful for what they may achieve. that's what happens in golf nothiand in life.ily. i'm very fortunate i can lean on people, and that for me is what teamwork is all about. you can't do everything yourself. you need someone to guide you and help you make those tough decisions, that's morgan stanley. they're industry leaders, but the most important thing is they want to do it the right way. i'm really excited to be part of the morgan stanley team. i'm justin rose. we are morgan stanley

rudy giuliani and michael cohen. rudy giuliani and mike flynn. than there is rudy giuliani and don mcgahn. don mcgahn ultimately cooperated with the mueller probe, when he had to face uncomfortable choices sort of chose the country, tried to walk that line and still work for the president. rudy giuliani seems to make different choices. >> yeah, decidedly and defiantly different choices, and as you said, nicolle, it seems to me that the main -- the main implication of what you're saying, which strikes me as obviously true, is that michael cohen is in jail and paul manafort is in jail and don mcgahn is not in jail, and if you had to ask me which side of the line rudy giuliani's in danger of being, that's another way in which not just his attitude and his temperament but i think that as this thing expands and deepens, simultaneously, i think the questions surrounding rudy giuliani's criminal exposure are going to become central to this investigation and i'm not predicting where that will end. i'm not saying he will end up in the same place as paul m

rudy giuliani. if i were him, i would be thinking about taking the fifth real quick, because you never know where it's going to go with these folks. they're likely to become cooperating witnesses, and if they become cooperating witnesses, they could yield very valuable information on giuliani or what impetus they had, or direction, from trump himself. >> no indictment per se to anything involving the president or the impeachment inquiry, but they gave money to a congressman and try to get the congressman to get rid of the ambassador of ukraine, which is on the witness list. they did not like this talk of using the united states to advance the president's personal political vendetta. at or around the same time parsen met with congressman one and caused congressman 1 to remove the u.s. ambassador to ukraine. parnas' efforts to remove the ambassador were conducted. >> he wrote this letter saying he had a problem with her. people were really confused as to why that was. we see now this is money being fu

from rudy giuliani meddling in this. there's so many interesting questions that we don't know. the two guys his clients who were arrested and indicted yesterday. how much -- how much of rudy's travels and work on this were they paying for? and if so, was this a way for these guys who just been charged with illegal campaign contributions basically footing the bill for the president's legal expenses? i think that to me is a central issue that the southern district is likely to be looking at. >> interesting. listen, michael, the fbi and prosecutors in manhattan are examining giuliani's involvement with these campaign finance violations, and as usual giuliani is trying to distract. and he's drawing you into it, right? >> yes, he has. he tweeted yesterday after these charges were filed that the real story is that the ukrainians had interfered in the 2016 election, not the russians. and to back that up, he posted a an e-mail, tweeted an e-mail that was leaked that the russians gave to wikileaks and put out in which a democrati

he said that when he spoke to rudy giuliani about the public meeting, rudy giuliani asked for a public statement from zelensky, the president of ukraine committing that ukraine would look into corruption issues and, according to gordon sondland, mr. giuliani specifically mentioned the 2016 elections, including the dnc server and burisma as two anti-corruption investigatory topics of importance to the president. according to sondland, he did not -- giuliani did not explicitly say the bidens but he came to learn later that hunter biden was on the board of this company and that's what apparently rudy giuliani was talking about. and there were also these questions about quid pro quo and those texts that have emerged from the top diplomat from currently in ukraine. bill taylor who raised concerns about a potential quid pro quo. sondland went to president trump and talked to him about this. he said he had a brief phone call with president trump and the president, according to sondland was in a, quote, bad mood. when he daucalled the president ask, what do you want from ukraine, he said nothi

back to rudy giuliani. these two individuals gave reportedly a illegal campaign donations but also has the ambassador recalled from her post. >> the two individuals who were fired -- who were arrested -- >> indicted. >> they've been arrested and indicted. >> they wanted yovanovitch recalled and she was recalled. so it appears that rudy giuliani was successful in delivering for the ukrainians and getting ambassador yovanovitch recalled from her post. and what this says, wolf, from a broader perspective that the president has really been using a coatery of people, both rudy giuliani and people with a foreign policy-sounding title like ambassador or something like that to do his political dirty work and we have one ambassador testifying today and several more scheduled next week. and all roads lead back to rudy and for president trump he could take the michael cohen route and say he did it without me but these ambassadors particularly sondland will know how closely president trump was working with rudy giulian

the second one is rudy giuliani. and these two gentlemen who were arrested last night, they are, like the president, clients of mr. giuliani. they have been arrested on multiple felony counts for allegedly funneling very large amounts of illegal campaign contributions to various republican politicians and political entities using straw men and a fake natural gas company and a number of other schemes to conceal the real origins of these illegal donations, including some of these funds that were given to them for this purpose by an unnamed russian donor. as of tonight these gentlemen are in custody in a federal jail in virginia, although i believe if they post a million dollars bail each sometime tonight, they could be released with monitoring devices and some sort of third-party representing to the court that they promise not to flee the country. but i mean bottom line here, when your lawyer's other clients get arrested, that's not good. you want to know what's worse than that, though? when cnn soon thereafter reports

but rudy giuliani, who is he? you'd have to ask rudy giuliani. i barely knew rudy was the context. >> also reminiscent of the michael cohen thing. i don't know. you'll have to ask michael. >> it's just a matter of time before he says who's rudy giuliani? i don't know rudy giuliani. i've never met rudy giuliani. i've never been photographed with him. why would i have any connection to him whatsoever? you know, it's -- the speed with which the president seems willing to throw people under the bus as this all started a few weeks ago is you should talk to mike pence and talk to the vice president about some of the conversations he's had here. and so i think there are photographs of him and his son and rudy giuliani together if not separately with these individuals. the president cannot credibly say that he has no connection to the individuals at all. again, i'll echo what i said earlier. that doesn't mean the president is getting charged with a crime or impeached, but he can't distance himself fully from these individuals because the evidence is ther

giuliani, rudy giuliani's associates, the white house, the office of management and budget, the pentagon, and now rick perry getting hit with a subpoena after questions were raised about conversations that he had with the ukrainian president zelensky and conversations he had with president trump, including president trump reportedly, according to cnn's reporting, urging rick perry to talk to rudy giuliani in his discussions with ukraine. now, rick perry has said that all along his conversations with the president zelensky of ukraine were simply about energy. he said he did not talk about the bidens at all or investigating the bidens, that never came up. the democrats said in their letter to perry today, these reports raise significant questions about your efforts to press ukrainian officials to change the management structure at a ukrainian state-owned energy company to benefit individuals involved with rudy giuliani's push to get ukrainian officials to interfere in our 2020 election. wolf, they are asking for documents by october 18th. perry has signaled in the past he would be willing

i have no interest in seeing rudy giuliani or anybody else be in jeopardy. maybe he'll get that exemption. we've got to find out the answers. the lawyer is working to educate u.s. policy makers. that's another definition under the law. that could include advising potus on whether the new ukrainian president will play ball, or promoting the public interest of a foreign country. say like striking a deal for the military assistance. if you're doing those things, then you have to register. well, then does that jam up rudy giuliani that you were doing exactly that you say by your own depe depic depiction, that you were trying to get him more information. the foreign corrupt practices act says a u.s. citizen can't offer any of value to a foreign official. we'll have to see if giuliani discussed ways to unfreeze the aid money. that could be a problem. legal exposure. it's no the abot about politics. at the same time, you can't solicit, ask for anything from a foreign government, which brings us to this. >> you never asked anything about hunter biden? you never aske

we also know there's associates of rudy giuliani and we know rudy giuliani has been involved in this effort to investigate an apopant of the president. there's no through line right there with all that information as of yet, but if you're rudy giuliani that shouldn't give you comfort. as i look at the facts of this case i consider these two the paul manforts of the ukraine scandal. paul manafort wasn't directly involved in the russian collusion but he got ensnared in all other acts. when an fbi does an investigation they do what's called circling a target. if it turns out investigatings these two they find evidence about rudy giuliani trying to interfere in a u.s. election visa vi a foreign government that should worry him a lot. >> do you see any scenario in which house investigators don't exhaust all auoptions to get giuliani to testify? there's time -- >> the thing is these two men were doing various things and obviously tried to flee the country. it's very suspicious behavior, you know, from the get go. but they were also involved in this campaign to get the u.s. ambassador to uk

if you're rudy giuliani, that shouldn't give you comfort. as i look at the facts of this case, i kind of consider these two the paul manaforts of the ukraine scandal. in the russia investigation, paul manafort wasn't directly involved in collusion but he got ensnare in all these other corrupt acts. when the fbi investigates corruption, they do what they call circling the target and you want to know everything about their associates. in investigating these two, if they find rudy giuliani involved, that will impact him a lot. >> obviously there are time considerations if, you know, the white house is going to throw up obstacles to having giuliani actually testify. >> yeah, they need to have him testify. the thing about this is is that, i mean, these two men were doing various things and obviously tried to flee the country. it's very suspicious behavior, you know, from the get-go. but they were also involved in this campaign to get the u.s. ambassador to ukraine fired, right, and the reason for that is because she was pushing back against this

were arrested and he said ask rudy giuliani. let me play that. >> i don't know those gentlemen. now it's possible i have a picture with them because i have a picture with everybody. i don't know them. i don't know about them. i don't know what they do, but -- i don't know. maybe they were clients of rudy. you'd have to ask rudy. >> so the point that gloria just made, david, it sounds a whole lot like this infamous exchange that trump had with reporters about then-personal attorney michael cohen's hush money payment to stormy daniels. here it is. >> do you know about the $130,000 to stormy daniels? >> no. no. >> you'd have to ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney and you'd have to ask michael. >> david, you'll have to ask michael cohen. you'll have to ask rudy. it sure sounds like the same show. >> yeah. sounds like the sound of a branch being sawed off behind these guys, and i think that that, you know, the president uses these people to do his political chores and when it becomes inconvenient he separates himself from them.

. >> then another arrest in the probe of rudy giuliani associates. and new reporting that trump's lawyer was lobbying the president on behalf of turkey. >>> plus what we learned from today's new impeachment witnesses, the key impeachment witness now flying in from ukraine, and why mick mulvaney is now officially knee deep in all of the president's mess. >> he's coughing in the middle of my answer. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. this is how bad things have gotten in the wake of donald trump's decision to abruptly with no warning pull u.s. troops out of northern syria and give turkish strong man erdogan the go ahead to invade. here's how "the wall street journal" described our military, quote, carried out air strikes to destroy the syrian headquarters of the american campaign to destroy isis after rapidly pulling americans from the base. we bombed our own headquarters in the fight against isis because they were about to be taken over by turkish backed forces. with this situation rapidly deteriorating the pres

afterwards the president going out of his way to praise rudy giuliani. >> i stand behind rudy giuliani, absolutely. i know nothing about him being under investigation. somebody said and i heard a report today, i can't imagine it. >> huh? can't imagine it. more breaking news. president trump bowing to heavy pressure from congress especially republicans and imposing sanctions on turkey for its military operation in syria. speaking for the president tonight, vice president mike pence said that trump spoke to turkey's president and demanded an immediate cease-fire. >> president erdogan reached out and requested the call. and, president trump communicated to him very clearly that the united states of america wants turkey to stop the invasion to implement an immediate cease-fire and negotiate with kurdish force in syria to bring an end to the violence. the united states of america did not do a green light to turkey to syria. >> okay. president trump did not have much of a choice but to take action since deciding last week to pull u.s. forces out of si syria. trump is receiving scathing criti

could include rudy giuliani and who knows who else. >> i'm rudy giuliani. for you, journalist gabe sherman actually talked to rudy giuliani this morning. what he said, "when i asked rudy about the prospect of the fbi flipping these two guys parnas and fruman to get to him he replied, good luck." rudy giuliani sounding pretty confident there. is sounding the key word? like, should he be worried? >> of course he should be worried. if you know about criminal activity and you do something concrete to help it succeed you're responsible. criminally responsible for that activity. so if rudy giuliani knew about this going on and he was aiding in their efforts, he could get charged. aiding an abetting and happens, the sort of thing charged on a regular basis. i have to say, brooke that is a very interesting answer by rudy giuliani. he doesn't say, they have nothing to flip on. rye didn't do anything wrong. he says, good luck. i mean what a mob boss says. right? when his cop is arrested. good luck. you're never going to flip him. very unusual thing to say. people who

and rudy giuliani going after marie yavonovitch. these are concerns that had been raised for months about giuliani's role, about the oust of the ukranian ambassador. what they are investigating is whether she was unfairly removed from that position in part because of the efforts of giuliani and president trump himself to urge the ukranian government to investigate the president's political rival joe biden. so in a large part behind the scenes this inquiry is focusing on that. members just briefly broke up, most of them declined to comment on what exactly transpires. everything that happened behind the scenes in a run-up to that july phone call between president trump and president zelensky and everything that happened about rudy giuliani's efforts we're getting indications that mr. kent had concerns for some time about the efforts to go after the ukranian ambassador about this so-called shadow of foreign policy that had been waged. we'll wait to hear the particulars of what he's saying behind the scenes, but according to what we exp

i think he brought up the name rudy giuliani. what i want is the following, and i've said this loud and clear. we have our ambassadors here. we have mike pence here. why are we the only ones that give the big money to the ukraine? we give money to ukraine and it's bothered me from day one. and you have plenty people just here. i say how come it's always the united states that gets ripped -- >> and then he kept going on and on without ever saying the answer, without ever saying what he wanted the president of ukraine to do with regard to joe and hunter biden as the question asked. the president ran away from that question and used as many words as he possibly could in running away from that question. and jeff mason stood his ground and kept asking the question that donald trump could not answer. >> what about mr. biden? what did you want about biden? what did you want him to look into about biden? >> look, biden and his son are stone cold crooked. and you know it. his son walks out with millions of dollars. the kid knows nothing.

the southern district of new york case against rudy giuliani, the division attorneys talking to giuliani about his client, they do not know that these two acts are going on at the same time. only rudy knows these things. for somebody who does not work for government, he not only has a lot of power, he has a lot of information. >> a lot of information. and rebecca, you specialize in legal ethics here, as you look at what rudy giuliani is doing, and we're still just learning, in terms of the way the line, the dotted lines, or the you know, full lines are connected, we're still putting it all together. >> right. i mean a really complicated thing is which hat is he wearing, who are his clients, so the extent he is representing donald trump and his personal capacity, then he has an ethical obligation to pursue donald trump's personal interests. the problem is, he is so involved in foreign policy, that that's a concern. because to the extent that the u.s.'s interest diverges at all from donald trump's personal interests, he is ethically obligated to pursue donald trump's personal interests, an

himself and the scrutiny of rudy giuliani. it's related to a lobby violation to work he did, efforts to gather dirt on former ambassador yovanovitch. she's accused hif of conducting shea doe diplomacy and attempting to get her recalled from kiev. of course, this is just pulling rudy giuliani deeping into controversy. cnn has reported that rudy giuliani's ties to others also under scrutiny at the moment. and cnn also reporting that president trump has questions. cnn also reporting that giuliani at this time is not expected to continue any work on ukrainian issues. that's what's gotten him into trouble at the moment. but he continues to represent the president. >> thank you. >>> political cnn commentator errol louis. good morning. >> good morning, victotovictor. >> there's a lot. let's start with rudy giuliani being investigated. he says it would be ridiculous that they say he's working as a foreign agent. it could be bad for rudy giuliani, but it could be even more problematic for the president. >> that's exactly right, victor.

dploei i glowingly about his friend rudy giuliani. >> rudy was a great prosecutor, best mayor of the city of new york far as i can see. rudy was seeking out corruption and there's nothing wrong with seeking out corruption. >> and registered foreign lobbyists? >> i don't know. that's up to him. that you -- excuse me. no. you have to ask rude e those questions. don't ask me, but rudy was one of many people incensed at it's corruption that took place during that election. pure corruption. >> my question to you is, do you think the loyalty will last? >> so what do we know about trump world? loyalty tends to be a one-way street. and just the other day he was saying that he didn't know if rudy was even his lawyer. so i -- i think now that this news has broken, let's wait and see. we're going to see the president later this afternoon. just for political context after the fallout of this, there's a new gallup poll that came out today that showed that -- let me gelt the numbers right -- that 52% of americans support impeaching and removing trump from office. yes, democrats were 89%. republica

rudy giuliani seems to have lost all comprehension of that. who knows what else he no longer understands? >> this may actually backfire on him in a number of different ways. i mean, one of the arguments put forth in this letter to congress about why her office not going to comply with their subpoena is because he said there may be some attorney/client privilege issues that he would have. by continuing to speak publicly about this very subject of the subpoena, he in many ways is rejecting claims to a privilege. the more you talk publicly about what is confidential conversation, you've waived the privilege. while it is great for congress and possibly for the southern district of new york that he continues to speak publicly, they're sort of gathering that evidence from his very mouth, it may backfire on him in the long run. >> let's listen to what congressman mike quigley said about rudy giuliani's role in what they're investigating. >> rudy combines it all. it's shadow government and bad foreign policy. a man with little or no expertise, no secu

is rudy giuliani next? before ambassador william taylor testified today rudy giuliani was already under federal criminal investigation for his back channel dealings with ukraine along with two of his associates, lev parnas and igor fruman. lev and ignor will be arraigned tomorrow. they'll surely be studying the transcript of today's deposition with ambassador william taylor for more evidence of what rudy giuliani has been up to. we have access only to ambassador taylor's opening statement in what became ten hours of testimony. in that opening statement ambassador taylor said, the push to make president zelensky publicly commit to investigations of burisma and the uh-uh ledged interference in the 2016 election showed how the official paolicy of the presidet of united states was undercut by the irregular efforts led by mr. giuliani. former prosecutor barbara mcquade is here to evaluate what the testimony could mean in the criminal investigation of rudy giuliani, an investigation peag conducted by the same u.s

giuliani and take direction from rudy giuliani. so if you're at the justice department taking a meeting with him, you have to wonder if you give him an answer that he doesn't like about his client is he going to go and report you to your boss the president of the united states. it's a very problematic situation. i think the thing i take away from the statement, though, is less about the underlying substance of the meeting and more about what's happening at the justice department. that was a very unusual statement for d.o.j. to make. and the thing that's sown usual it was just about the head of the criminal division. the a.d. did know, the deputy attorney general did know rudy was under investigation. but the statement reads to me like the head of the criminal division tried to distance himself from it. and i think what it says is there's something that we don't yet know about the department's involvement in the ukraine scandal. probably has to do with those early days when they squashed a full investigation. it was the head of the

here's what we heard from rudy giuliani. he's saying i have received a subpoena signed only by democrat chairs who have pre-judged this case. it raises significant issues concerning legitimacy and constitutional and legal issues, attorney-client and other privileges. it will be given appropriate consideration. so clearly they're talking about attorney-client privilege and hinting at other privileges. it's unclear what those privileges giuliani would have because he's not in the white house. so the normal executive privilege or absolute immunity they've raised with other officials, not certain if that will apply here. when rudy has been asked about this in different formats, and he's done a lot of television in the last five, six days, he always comes do the bottom line if president donald trump asks him to testify, he will likely testify. but until then he wants to be noncommittal and delay and preserve his options. it's really the entire white house's strategy on impeachment, hallie. >> and there's a lawsuit now being filed

in some ways you can argue even their access to the president through rudy giuliani, they had rudy giuliani's ear. he had the president's ear. that is very significant in all of this and something certainly the fbi officials and u.s. officials have been concerned about for some time. >> yeah. no. this is all a big deal, shimon. with that new nugget also i have on the phone, the "wall street journal" reporter who broke the story on this giuliani lunch. tell me more about the lunch. >> reporter: so we don't know a whole lot more about the lunch itself, but i can tell you another bit of information that's set to go into our story. >> yes. >> reporter: in an interview with us just a little while ago mr. giuliani told us that both of the men were on their way to vienna for a business trip and had back and forth to vienna multiple times over the past few months and wouldn't elaborate just what that business was, but that is where they were headed. >> and what was their relationship with rudy giuliani? >> reporter: they are, they've been associates for the past year working with mr. giuliani to intr

and so that is what rudy giuliani did. and now as the sheer scope of this thing keeps getting bigger and bigger, they're all desperate to cover it up. but the problem here is that there are more marie yovanovitchs out there. believe me. there are dozens of people in the government who really do view their duty to be the country and not to donald trump, and it is just a matter of time for them to come forward. like the first whistle-blower did and now the second. there is only one bagman, and he -- gosh, i don't know what his future holds -- but there are many civil servants like marie yovanovitch not afraid to stand up and tell the truth. my first guest has just returned from a trip to ukraine, a democrat from california. congressman, it's good to have you, congressman. you just got back from a congressional delegation to ukraine. it was planned before all this stuff broke. what was it like to go there under these circumstances? >> well, it was kind of weird. first of all, we did have another civil servant there, mr. taylo

. >>> we have new information on the criminal investigation surrounding rudy giuliani. this is the worst situation this president has had to deal with. why? let's get after it. the irony, the same federal office rudy giuliani once led is leading a criminal investigation into him. according to "the wall street journal," prosecutors in manhattan are examining giuliani's business dealings in ukraine and elsewhere, along with his personal finances. they report investigators have been talking to witnesses since at least august. one question is how will the d.o.j. wind up dovetailing with congress? they're looking at the same situation. a short time ago fiona hill wrapped up more than ten hours of testimony on capitol hill. two sources say president trump's former top russia adviser raised concerns about giuliani's so-called shadow ukraine policy during her deposition. we have someone who heard directly from her at those closed-door impeachment proceedings. let's bring in house oversight and judiciary member jamie raskin. thank you for coming on "primetime." >> thanks for hav

bag men like rudy giuliani. rudy giuliani who, by the way, does not work for the u.s. government. he does not draw a government salary. he has no official role in american foreign policy. he answers to one person. that is donald trump. donald trump has annoyed him personally to do his bidding. he is michael cohen 2.0. before he had rudy giuliani -- it's true. before he had rudy giuliani, trump and michael cohen, and michael cohen was the hush man, the bag man, took care of real estate deals and keeping things out of the newspaper. now michael cohen is in prison so he's got rudy giuliani. rudy giuliani, he's not really his attorney in any real sense. he's not writing legal briefs that are going before courts. the president has real lawyers to do that. believe me. he's in court a lot. the lawyers take care of that. rudy giuliani is just a fixer with a law degree. and he's apparently been tasked with a clear mission by the president which is to manufacture dirt on my political enemy so i can get reelected. instead of running a foreign policy for the people of the country that represe

rudy giuliani had targeted her as part of an effort to push for her ouster, as well as the rudy giuliani associates who arrested yesterday. they were all part of this effort and scheme of sorts that were alleged by prosecutors yesterday in part to push her out. these are all the questions that will undoubtedly be asked behind closed doors, exactly what happened there, and we got a read about some of the things that are happening behind closed doors. eleanor holmes norton, a congresswoman sitting on three committees interviewing the witness emerged from the closed door facility and she said that nobody, that yovonavitch has not indicated whether or not anybody has prevented her from testifying. now, that is a key question because we had wondered whether or not the state, she was di -- defying the state department, but she has not indicated that yet at this moment. at the same time, she says that yovonavitch has been trying to clear up false statements about her. this could be in relation to what the republicans were saying, she was disloyal to the president, criticized the president, and

sara, thank you. >>> now breaking news on rudy giuliani. the president's personal attorney, and the focus as sara pointed out of this ever-widening ukraine scandal. with me, a crime reporter and what do we now know about rudy giuliani? >> his current lawyer, had he hired to represent through the congressional process, through this impeachment process is not longer going to represent him. that lawyer jon sale says they're done. he did what rudy asked them to do and rudy says he's now done with this lawyer. the big news from what we're hearing is people close to rudy giuliani are concerned about rudy. concerned there is something serious going on here out of the southern district of new york. the fbi investigation and urging him, hi friends, people close to imhad, i spoke to someone moments ago, all urging him he needs to hire a criminal attorney. >> why? >> they're worried. think once the southern district of new york certainly starts to focus on you and investigating you for financial potential, some kind of financial wrongdoing, they're co

>> and rudy giuliani, of course, was the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york which has now indicted two of his associates. >> scrutinizing him. >> right. >> and looking into what was going on here. that is an interesting point that you make there certainly. >> what about looking ahead to this week. in addition to sonland, there are a number of deadlines for different people and departments to hand over documents. >> yeah. so the big thing is who is going to cooperate. what kind of documents are they going to get in the biggest question is are they even going to get any kind of documents in the white house has not given any indication that they intend to cooperate with subpoenas or requests for documents, and obviously you have mike pence. there's documents there that they want from that office from him, mark esper, key here, the defense secretary, the money that was withheld, the military add and ross voigt, he's the money man, the omb direct ork the acting director there, and what does he know? in all of this the

that rudy giuliani knows about this entire ukrainian gambit. they issued a subpoena to him and three business associates to turn over any and all documentation related to his communications with ukraine. interestingly enough, a lot of this evidence is evidence that giuliani has already acknowledged that he has. in the course of his colorful tv appearances just on fox news the other day, in fact, he held up an ipad and proceeded to read from it some of the texts that he's received. you see the former mayor of new york city showing how deeply embedded he is or was in this ukrainian controversy. democrats want all of that evidence. giuliani told our colleague kristen welker overnight he hasn't made up his mind yet about whether he'll comply or to what degree he'll comply. here is plor of the former mayor in his own words. take a look. >> i'm weighing the alternatives. i'll go through it, get all my evidence together, i'll get my charts. i don't know if they'd let me use videotapes and tape-recordings that i have, if they let me get some of the evi

more news this afternoon on rudy giuliani's legal predicament shall we call it? michael warren is with me now. michael, you have scoop. what is it? >> right, brooke. cnn reporting rudy giuliani is parting ways with his personal attorney shortly. jon sale. rudy giuliani telling cnn a few moments ago jon was helping me assessing the congressional requests, that subpoena request from giuliani the deadline today. giuliani continued, he, jon sale, my lawyer, will submit his letter and he will be finished with what i asked him to do. sale did not respond to multiple requests for comment here, but, brooke, one more thing. we should note people close to giuliani are advising him to get a criminal attorney as questions are lingering about these two associates of his. they were indicted last week. fruman and parnas. >> they're saying lawyer up and specifically get a criminal attorney. michael warren, thank you for your reporting. >>> tonight is the first debate. a lot has happened in, since the last one. the impeachment inquiry, syrian chaos and bernie sanders's heart atta

and what happens is rudy giuliani is concerned about rudy giuliani and trying to stay out of trouble. mike pompeo is an extremely ambitious politician who is looking for his political future. and those two are going to be at odds with one another when they have to figure out, well who really did this? was it rudy? was it pompeo? was it both of them? that's going to be fascinating to see what mike pompeo says to rudy giuliani in that circumstance. >> i love never being at odds with either of you, job and natasha. >>> putting two and two together. how the charges against these two men could affect the president. two men could feafct the president. >>> sounding presidential? well, someone get a bar of soap. the president is using foul language more often, swearing at his political opposition, and here he is at a rally last night. >> and they say, thank you very much. i want your money. yeah, give me that $250,000 you work your [ bleep ] off for. they're pursuing an illegal, invalid, and unconstitutional bull [ bleep ] impeachment. >> it's just so charming. let's go to nbc's ali vittalie,

did rudy giuliani benefit financially as well? it is a major question that a lot of folks are trying to answer. >> one of the congress members contributed was pete sessions in texas, the republican that was defeated. he written a letter to mike pompeo demanding for fire. >> the congressman do that in return for a payment either to himself personally or his political action committee. that's bribery. whatever it is, it is illegal. i am not saying congressman broke the law. i am saying prosecutors going to look closely at that question. we call people who are within the scope of the investigation subjects. that does not mean you have done anything wrong or going to be charged, it means that your conduct raises questions. that certainly is the case with mr. rudy giuliani and the case of all this. >> lachlan, great reporting. great textbook. >> thank you. >> chuck rosenberg. thank you. be sure to check out chuck's broadcast "the oath." listen for free where ever you get your broadcast. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell

rudy giuliani indicted, well, not at the moment. the president's lawyer, though, is under scrutiny after two of his associates were indicted this week over dealings linked to the ukraine scandal that triggered the impeachment inquiry. now, there's speculation the former u.s. attorney could face charges of his own for allegedly acting as an unregistered foreign agent. this comes amid reporting by cnn that giuliani is on the hunt for his own personal defense attorney now. meanwhile "the new york times" reports the president and giuliani are moving forward with even more attacks on joe biden. this is over son hunter's work for a romanian batman who faces corruption charges. the only problem is that rudy giuliani also worked for that very same romanian businessman that was a couple years after hunter biden supposedly did. then this new bit of information courtesy of a giuliani butt dial to an nbc news reporter. in that call he's heard on voicemail discussing his business dealings overseas and a big sum of cash. >> all right. joining us

rudy giuliani is a hand grenade. john bolton isn't just saying i have some concerns about what's going on, he's gaping at what he's seeing and now, you know, there's is a lot of -- there's going to be even more interest in hearing from him. one has to note that donald trump has had such bitter breakups with so many of his former senior aides who have no great investment in trying to protect this president at this point, so i'm really curious to hear what john bolton's going to have to say if we ever hear from him. if we do, i don't think president trump can trust he's going to bite his tongue and hold anything back. >> also gordon sondland. >> the trump donor turned ambassador to the european union who was working with rudolph w. giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, to press ukraine to investigate democrats, according to testimony provided to investigators. gordon sondland is going to testify. they're going to want to know about that. >> yeah, that's exactly right. mr. sondland has already started to put some d

he talks about how he spoke to rudy giuliani. he calls rudy giuliani and this was a way to ease a path and rudy ghoul johnny says there is three things the president is upset with ukraine over. the 2016 election, the ukraine that they have clinton server, he brought up paul manafort and they cooked up evidence regarding corruption involving paul manafort and brought up the dossier is what rick perry says, that's where that originated. so rick perry says i don't know what was true but this is what was said to me. he says rick perry that no demands were ever made, that the bidens never came up. but significant in all of this is again, why is the president going to rick perry and saying talk to rudy giuliani. >> that's -- they are going real conspiracy theory deep state here. the dossier, you know. that's the fbi counter intelligence agents began asking rudy giuliani back in february and march. there is added significance there. what is that? >> so when you open the counter intelligence investigation, you can have what's called a pr

. >>> when we come back, two friends of rudy giuliani who have worked with rudy giuliani were described by their lawyer as members of donald trump's legal team. they have also been described as alleged criminals working for russian gangsters, and they are actually currently indicted. former justice department official matt miller will join us to connect those dots along with former federal prosecutor mimi rocah, next. at bayer, we create medicine that treats bleeding disorders like hemophilia. so victor can keep doing what's in his blood. at bayer, this is why we science. our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition... for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-seven vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy. >>> the trump justice department is closing the door to rudy giuliani. he is not welcome there anymore now that he is under investigation by the u.s. attorney in manhattan, an investigation that some members f the william barr justice department did not know about when they had a meeting with rudy giuliani r