i'll make two points one is certainly libya is a broken country unwilling to look at libya because then it ruins the idea of the so-called libyan model the exported that some people want to take to syria so any look back at libya is going to caution you about using need to out in such a military kind of militaristic way nobody wants to talk about for instance the fact that an entire town in libya the town of was ethnically cleansed you know there is no call for a full detailed forensic human rights investigation of what is happening in libya post nato intervention and nato as you know has refused any public or independent evaluation of its tactics in libya so that's the first thing secondly i think it's extraordinary to say that in bahrain there were reforms conducted and that these were in a sense taken up by the people is genuine you know just this last month there has been a series of protests about the formula one rally and in this month there have been people who have been killed in saudi arabia the state used military force against the population the man who set up the facebook si

do you think that libya was taken advantage of. i don't think it was because of oil because it was a flowing to the west you know we didn't get if there was no interruption in the cold for. what i'm saying is that after the regime filled though. most of the western countries the mission has been accomplished they neglect the fact that libya is a stateless so i think it's not. easy when there is you. in the the open a political vacuum there won't we need to be a step show or national we need to help police stop show or police collect arms or from the street and prepare the country for elections this is their agenda that we need help with unfortunately the cond of a system provided by potential friends. talk about. the training in jos developing civil society. training woman these are very important things but they are not road for the time being do you feel indebted to those afforded powers in those countries that help support your cause and we feel sincere gratitude and appreciation for what they did to help a gust tremendously the

do you think that libya was taken advantage of. i don't think it was because of who because it was a flowing from the west you know during the difficult there was no interruption of told from who what i'm saying is that after the regime fell down most of the western countries felt that their mission has been accomplished they neglect the fact that libya is a stateless cycling it's not egypt and it's not the tunisia when there is you was down ended up in a political vacuum at that point we need to be to stop show what national we need to help police stop showed police to collect arms or from the street and prepare the country for elections this is that region that we need help with unfortunately the kind of assistance provided by a lot of potential friends. you talk about. the three million jews we've been civil society. training woman these. things but they are not broken for the time being and the you feel indebted to those afforded powers those countries that help support your cause. we feel a sense of gratitude and appreciation

do you think of libya was taken advantage of. i don't think it was because of it because it was a flowing to the west you know during the difficult there was no interruption the told from. what i'm saying is that after the regime fell down most of the western countries felt that the mission has been accomplished they neglect the fact that libya is a stateless psyching it's not egypt and it's not tunisia when there is you was gone we ended up in a political vacuum there won't we need to be this talk show or national we need to help police stop showed police to collect arms of from the street and prepare the country for elections this is that agenda that we need help with unfortunately the cond of a system provided by a word of a potential friends. talk about. three million jews developing civil society. training woman these are very important things but they are not production for the time being and the feel indebted to those afforded powers those countries that it helps support your cause when we fail since a good attitude an app

and who is in control but not a little first correct so there was not some good will to libya. there was resistance against significator ship but we can said the little blue shield did not start here we considered the revolution would start going to start stop talking about development conditions when we start tackling those issues on equal footing for old people as opposed to crucial rights then i consider that lucian such that we have to have our national but established as you know good feet has destroyed and the libyan army you know and he is stuck should consider a bit of brigades you know to protect the regime we have to use the structure of the police department have to collect those arms from the streets and we have to prepare the country for elections next two or three minutes to have a transparent elections resulting in drafting a constitution that equalized the rights of all libyans and then i think this bloodshed which took place was worth what we have been dancing which has unanimously declared a federal state and the eastern part of the country what complications

so the -- libya's similar to syria's uprising because libya was forced to take up arms and they were also forced to leave the places of residence, and many of them immigrated out of the country, so lots of situations took place in libya and many people were forced to fight for gadhafi and his brigades. so this really affected eed a h of the libyan society and also the -- libyan society. also the difference of the libyan revolution, libya for 40 years, we don't have an extra constitution. nor through institutions of civil societies, nor did we have the best ministry that we had was the oil ministry because it is the main supporter for the regime and one person managed everything. there was no -- what we had, we didn't even have any partners, we had only the revolutionary councils. so any valuable raise his voice or otherwise it would be the representative for the -- so our situation in libya differs greatly from the situations in other countries, therefore this have left and the libyan case, a lack of experience, a list of experience and the political practices also. this had many neg

f o johnson a refugee from libya has just seen a doctor. he's suffering from a wound sustained during military hostilities in libya. the leg surgery he underwent some time ago has helped but he can't get the doctors to say what sort of treatment he needs. one is this is false fronts and does fall but. i need more help with. me how my leg. how is it there's no changes even i know does the changes. as soon as he arrived in run from a hospital in italy self in early two thousand and twelve johnson source help from a charitable organization called characters the fifty seven year old builder couldn't say why he'd be fired on libya all he knows is that somebody shot at the car carrying him and his friends from tripoli to misrata he doesn't know who gave the order to shoot. him or where to misrata. program. and fall down and his started to should be strong in front so the gun just falls for the other people where all of them. carries has provided johnson with lodging for the night and one meal a day. stuff conceded that there was an increasing sho

and who is in control at the moment the literates for a script so there was not some good water libya there was resistance against syndicator ship what we consider good good of lucian did not start here we considered that through volution would start when we start. talking about development conditions who just thought those issues an equal footing for old people because there's confusion of rights then i consider the pollution such that we have to have our national but established as you know good. has destroyed the libyan army you know and he has stopped. brigades you know to protect the regime would have to use every step we. have to collect those arms from the streets and we have to prepare the country for elections the next two or three minutes to have a transparent elections resulting in the drafting a constitution that equalize the rights of all libyans and then i think this bloodshed which took place was worth what we have been dancing which has unanimously declared a federal state in the eastern part of the country but complications could arise out of this do you worry that ma

libya might be an exception in this front so let us wait and see and i'm not quite confident that the they're going to do as well as they did in egypt and tunisia but what about the al qaeda presence in libya how big of a possibility is it that they will gain a foothold in the country talks here or to play in the theoretically speaking at any. political vacuum can be felt by anybody in the world and it's a full tide saw in you know for the extreme isn't good or so in the interest of everybody libyans and none libyans you know could have a very commanding government there's a term of the government in place as from this bus. now looking back at me to intervention and hindsight do you think this was inevitable or was it detrimental in that it could have been a less militarized ending for libya. well the first world then turned national community intervention because it was not only need two there were none nato members such as qatar and their minutes intervention but the international community was very decides to help our fighters on the ground and the but our favored you know he said

in libya and now we're looking at syria as well so the white house you know we would hope that they're looking at the best case scenario but they need to be a little bit more cautious about the worst case scenario and that includes arming rebels in syria the arming of and aiding of rebels in libya when in fact we knew that they had ties to radical islamist groups and especially and specifically al qaeda. so if she's saying. this is all being fake it cautious they have a friendship because they're valid and they become america's new best friends could there be a hidden agenda there is the thought that they could play is that well there are some factions here in the united states who believe that there there is a hidden agenda and that it it has to do with. anti israeli sentiment but if the white house is thinking about that they're not saying anything about that they still claim to be great allies of israel and of democracy in the middle east but what we're seeing is as you alluded to earlier in the segment is that it's not always turning out to be wonderful exercise in democracy we're

what we did in libya was the right thing. we had the support of the international community, the support of the region, and we protected the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians that were at imminent risk of slaughter. the decision that the united statess security council took a year ago this week has proved its worth. gadhafi is gone. the libyan people are now working to constitute, under great challenge, a democratic future, a democratic system. their transition is on track. we were able to accomplish this without a single loss of american life. in a shared operation of burden-sharing after the united states played a critical role in the early days. our nato partners and arab partners took the lead and sustained the operation with u.s. support. so i think that proved its worth. i can't speculate, sir, in all honesty, on where we may end up in any other circumstance or contingency. i know that the administration and the president fully and completely respect the role of congress in decisions on war and peace. and we w

then like vultures non-governmental organizations come swooping in to one country after another from libya to syria it seems these glass turned back piggy banks are spending more than ever before to help other nations million suffer right here at home so when said n.g.o.s transitioned from foreign aid it's a big business and. after a decade of war and billions of dollars down the drain support for the war in afghanistan is at an all time low and now the afghan government is planning to downsize their own military force so is it time for the u.s. to cut its losses or explore. gentleman to become a no other kind of animal altogether it's the media industry is more than entertainment news and in this answer taman and this jury of the story is not sexy or bloody that it's not newsworthy perhaps that's why media outlets are only painting part of a picture of the conflict in syria we'll show you why syrians say news coverage of their country is bogus. it's thursday april twelfth four pm here in washington d.c. i'm liz wall and you're watching our team. well starting off today by taking a look at

hunger what he was doing in libya having been chased out by. government allied militia from from mali in two thousand i was trying to encourage . members of the gadhafi military to come back. and to bring with them. because which they. which they did and it's interesting to see that it was long before he actually fell ok after the benghazi uprising but before gadhafi fell and also importantly before the no fly zone that senior commander started to leave gadhafi forces taking with arms and guns. and heading back towards northern mali in order to be ok jane let me jump in right here i mean the military in mali said to dave done with they have done because the civil authorities didn't give them the arms they needed to fight the rebellion uprising so i mean in a way and i might just define a coup here but the military saying we have to protect the sovereignty of this country because the civil government is not doing that and that story is beginning to come out now i mean you're talking about weaponry going into the country because of the libyan sit

achieve transformation of a country like libya or elsewhere we have to rely on the n.g.o.s rather than relying on government agencies consider it as an outsourcing some tasks that we have to do specially in the area of creating a environment where if you cation and educating your population about democracy freedoms and human rights when you have a very important and critical role to play in that area and you can play a very important and critical role as we just saw in that report there when it came to libya for example if another report they turned out to be exaggerated are one sided or are maybe they don't always reveal the full picture ahmed to what extent are n.g.o.s held accountable for the information that they put out. these should be held accountable since we are going to empowered them we we expect as the public there to receive credible unbiased information if their reports will actually cause collateral damage then they would be considered accomplice in that tragedy if it if it happens so the accountability is an important factor as well as transparency not on the donor side

in some very important ways, this is not libya. in libya, there was widespread international support, in the arab world and elsewhere and a clear security consult authorization for military intervention. and nato was authorized to act on that. no such consensus currently exists regarding syria. the opposition is also not as well organized and does not control territory, what we saw in libya. there are almost 100 different groups. on the one hand that indicates that this is an insurgency that is broad based. it makes it difficult to determine who to help if they cannot organize as a single opposition force. we must be mindful as secretary clinton has noted of the possibility that outside military intervention will make a volatile situation even worse. and place even more innocent civilians at risk. the united states has made clear that we are on the side of the syrian people and they must know that the international community has not underestimated either their suffering or their impatience. the defense department as we always do, i

transfer to libya where he claims he was tortured back in 2004. the british government then and now has consistently said it has not been complacent and torture. here is our security correspondent, brent gardner.-- frank gardner. >> jack straw is the latest in the libyan attacks from muammar gaddafi. he was responsible for the britain's intelligence service. it is alleged he signed off on a secret opposition to deliver papers to muammar gaddafi's jail. after last year's nato bombing of libya, ransacked government offices revealed letters sent by ted british intelligence to the libyan intelligence one referred to this libyan commander. back in 2004, they believed he was an al qaeda operative, which he denies. he said there were dragged back to libya by the cia based on intelligence and was then torture. >> the revelation over the weekend have only heightened the view that rendition such of this would have been sanctioned at the highest level, and they follow all the documents that were revealed following the fall of muammar gaddafi. >> this is not

in libya you're trying to build something out of largely nothing. so there is a potential because of that, but there also are all sorts of splits within the country. there's no doubt that the islamists are trying to gain the upper hand. you talk to the people who are trying to manage the change themselves and many of whom by the way were educated here, they are incredibly impressive. they certainly are saying the right things, whether they can deliver on it remains to be seen. but the administration is looking for ways to continue to bolster and move things in a certain direction. i would say on the issue of syria, i don't believe that what just came out, where there was some intelligence briefings, i don't believe those were by design by the administration. i think they may reflect certain views within the intelligence community. it's not my understanding that they represent the views of the administration. >> we've got one here. >> i'm a georgetown alum. in october 1789 george washington wrote a letter to governor paris on the french revolution. t

in libya, that all came together. in syria, it's still a difficult situationer challen challenge to put those together. >> do you suppose that the cohering factor in the libyan situation was the sense that gadhafi had completely lost the support of his own people and no one wanted to be associated with a regime that was illegitimate in that sense. do you think that assad has simply not reached that point with his own people yet, or is there some other factor that is diverting us from that consensus? >> i think it's the factors i pointed out in my testimony make this different from libya. the fact that, number one, he does still enjoy, as i said, the loyalty of a good chunk of the army and the military. and that makes it more challenging in terms of trying to undermine the regime. secondly, the opposition is dispersed. there are a lot of groups there that represent the opposition. in libya, while, you know, there were some different tribal groups that made up the opposition, they were holding territory. we knew who the

before the uprising bankcards him before nato intervention in libya the political arm of the m. and a was formed in october two thousand and ten long before the uprising in benghazi timbuktu the military plans had been laid by the hunger who was in libya at the time but he'd been planning this from two thousand and nine onward so i i think that the fall of gadhafi. sped up the rebellion the time of the rebellion and possibly causing more arms but i don't think that this is a direct consequence i don't think that narrative is from ok peter what do you think about that in washington it's an atmosphere nominal i think of a direct result. certainly the the the the tensions in the northeast grievances legitimate or not you can debate. those are all ongoing problems but certainly there was a new empathy sport with full fires that's why the m.l.o. u.s. military commander. is a colonel in the libyan army maybe he would have been sent anyway but the fact is he had to the fighters that form the the tip of the spear here in the skiff the latest on the use of military you had james jump in

since the mission has been accomplished they need to look at the fact that libya is a stateless. political you can be felt in it. and it's for the little foot excuse and good or. you can watch a full interview with bill in about twenty five minutes here on. counties or nolens race president could have delivered a clear choice to washington this week over its missile shield plans in europe and says the u.s. also announced similar systems for asia and the middle east we could move it and barack obama discussed the issue it's an international nuclear security summit in seoul and part of their private conversation accidentally went public. for two leaders exchange was captured by t.v. cameras word for word and it was seized on by barack obama's republican rivals with mitt romney even declaring russia is america's number one enemy but as more land on the anti russian bandwagon is going to come on reports there was cries are not reserved resonating with american voters. the run up to the presidential election in the u.s. . a perfect time to drag down the good old cold war skeleton from

libya, that all came together. in syria, it is still a difficult challenge putting those pieces together. >> this is a hypothesis that the cohering factor in the libyan situation is a sense that gaddafi had completely lost the support of his own people, and no one wanted to be associated with the regime that was illegitimate in that sense. do you think that assad has simply not reach that point with his own people yet, or is there some other factor that is diverting us from that consensus? >> i think is of the factors that i pointed out in my testimony that make this different from libya. the fact that number one, he does still enjoy the loyalty of a good job of the army and the military. that makes it more challenging in terms of trying to undermine the regime. secondly, that opposition is disbursed. there are a lot of groups there that represent the opposition. in libya, there were some different tribal groups that make up the opposition. they were holding territory. we knew who they were. we couldn't -- we could

i want to take a look at now like the role n.g.o.s play and possibly shaping a foreign policy in libya western funded non-government organizations highlighted the bloodshed in massacres incited by the libyan leader moammar gadhafi and it's this information that has helped justify western military intervention and the public that these reports and the by these organizations and the mass media led to support the toppling of dictators and the subsequent caging of regimes but let's get up he was killed what happened was some of those reports were proven to be and correct and it's possible a similar scenario is playing out now in syria so what happens when non-government organizations are in fact quite cozy with the government are to correspond a marine apart and i reports that sometimes the consequences of misinformation can be deadly. it was billed as a necessary humanitarian intervention requiring nato warplanes to bring bombs on libya before the u.s. led attack on moammar gadhafi forces. came unconfirmed allegations from western funded non-governmental organizations you know who knew it

behind it was already building up weaponry and got weaponry from elsewhere as well as libya before the fall of gadhafi. coincidental in terms of timing and then it is helped intensify it and speed up operations but this rebellion was going to take place at some point and at some point reasonably soon anyway with or without the fall of peter what about the legitimacy of protecting the state sovereignty ok i mean the justification we can talk about the merits of the democracy in their country if we want but they came out and said we have to protect the borders of this country and their arms coming in we have a minority they've been trying to break away for a where a long time now i mean what are the justifications there i mean if security versus democracy versus constitutional order etc etc again it's not black and white. you know it's not like why although i would say this much about the actual one to the took power the justification is there advancing now are just occasions which have a reason behind them and certainly a certain cretin's but they're invented ex post facto and the fact

one hundred fifty killed more than four hundred injured the result of clashes in libya in the past six days alone as former rebels and tribesmen battle it out for power the nation's government has now broken a ceasefire. in reality it has little power of the last number of armed groups and if they do form the revolution and if it is former prime minister who led the uprising against moammar gadhafi believes there's a risk libya might be taken over by extremists not rigid rule said it's the result of nato abandoning the country or former regime is toppled well in the next hour artie's exclusive interview with sharing his view on it after his death as well as the future of libya. tool many parties who have interests that it doesn't talk that he should be silenced for ever for that he was killed by the foot and into libya as sort of libyans and they are for others after that he killed though most of the western countries feel that their mission has been accomplished they neglect the fact that libya is a stateless. political vacuum can be filled by anybody in the world and it's a fertile s

hundred fifty killed more than four hundred injured the result of clashes in libya in the past six days alone as former rebels and tribes and battle it out for power the nation's government has now broken the ceasefire but in reality itself the vast number of armed groups left over from the revolution and libya's former prime minister who led the uprising against moammar gadhafi i believe there is a risk that the country might be taken over by extremists when jubal's also says it's the result of nato abandoning their country after the former regime was toppled from what is exclusive interview with general sharing his view on get out his death as well as the future of libya. there are too many quarters who have interest. it doesn't talk that he should be silenced photo over there that he was killed by the fourteenth into the libyans or the libyans and they are for the others after it is filled though most of the with some countries feel that their mission has been accomplished they neglect that libya is a. political vacuum can be filled by anybody in there and it's a full tide saw in the

then like vultures non-governmental organizations comes moving into one country after another from libya to syria it seems these western backed payback banks are spending more than ever before to help other nations while millions suffer right here at home so when that n.g.o.s transition from foreign aid to big business. plus a decade after a decade of war and billions of dollars down the drain support for the war in afghanistan is at an all time low and now the afghan government is planning to downsize their own military force so is it time for the u.s. to cut its losses we'll explore. and student debt can be hard to deal with sometimes that means taking on two part time jobs or just being a part time student but two college students are facing debt and a whole other way we'll show you their artwork in just a few minutes. it's thursday april twelfth five pm here in washington d.c. i'm liz wall and you're watching our team. oh starting off this hour by taking a look at the role n.g.o.s play in shaping public perception of world events in libya western funded non-government organizations h

therefore, there is agreement on the political sphere in libya. and it's no longer a polarization between the islamicists and liberals. we don't like this label, because they're all moderate islamists. this is a very important introduction to understand libyan society. second of all, the islamic reference, or sharia is now a demand for all libyans. it's not restricted to a particular group of the libyans. it doesn't concern the islamists, but it demands by all libyans. but what is our own understanding of this reference. as has already been said, it's the overall intent of the islamic -- of religion which is to establish justice and equality among the people and to defend freedom, even if people have different -- whole different views. therefore, the sharia and our understanding of the sharia is to understand the larger intents and purposes of sharia. for example, the sharia encourages people to express their views and engage in dialogue, and encourages differences. as we know, we have several islamic traditions that interpreted the sayings of the