politicians might pay lip service to the need for reform and they might actually decide on reforms in brussels, but before it turns in to law in will berlin, amsterdam or the hague, rather, paris, rome, athens, and other countries of of the eurozone, that's a different question. this is also the fear that you hear for example from angela merkel's council of economic advisers. we caught up with one of the down sers, one of the so-called wise men, and he also said the ecb has bought time, but not more. and be aware that playing with the idea of breaking up the eurozone is a very dangerous thought. here we go. >> the ekb has bought time and has very effectively bought a little bit of time, but during that time, the european governments must come to their minds and get a good solution plan going and a good solution plan would be one which balances model problems on the one hand and refinancing problems, acute problems on the other. >> do you think the breakup of the eurozone or some maybe countries like greece leaving the eurozone is, a, on option or, b, a danger? >> i think we should be very afra

for example, if you wanted to transfer from germany into brussels, you may have to talk about a change of the german constitution. a meaningful change of the german constitution, which of course does remember a public vote. if you were to ask for a public vote of this issue in germany, understood on a vote on italian debt or on spanish debt to be paid by german taxpayers? i guess it might be and therefore the german government might be reluctant to go into this direction rapidly. so we're in a very slow process here. >> when you look at the euro and where it is today, how weak does the euro need to be to drive growth in the eurozone? >> when you look in the various countries, there's a huge difference in the necessary for the environment to cope with. exchange rate is at about 165. you look at the italian euro, it is certainly way below 1.20. but the question here is do we need an exchange rate which is servicing the weakest link in europe and guess that's the case and therefore we stay convinced that the euro has to decline from here. and about it does not decline from here, you have

brussels, berlin, paris, amsterdam, the ecb has flushed the money markets with cheap money two three, $1 trillion. money into the market. not to mention the other nonthree-year ltros and the standard procedures. the eurozone money market is a wash with money. lowered interest rates twice, we've still got a bond purchasing program that's dormant but could be reactivated. we've got a covered bond purchasing program, the ecb's done for the time being. of course, talking about exit strategies is premature, probably foolish, but i think that's more of a political backstop position for the bank that have to make their voice heard and say, yes, but we will have to have an exit strategy early enough. we will have to find out how to basically haul in, how to rein in this extra money that is more speak than do. and for the time being, we have to wait how these two ltros really filter through if at all to anything like the real economy. we know the first one was basically aimed at sort of unclogging the dysfunctional money market that has worked to some extent. the second one was more or less de

that and he what we're looking for is nice sounds coming out of brussels. >> so you're saying spanish spreads will be driven by what he says rather than investors making up their own minds? >> he's the first person who will speak on the issue. and he's the most important person. if he speaks favorably and says, yes, they are doing the right thing, then i think that feeds into investor sentiment, that to some extent bolsters the bond market and then we go go on and hopefully see a virtual sir ket in international markets overall. >> an interesting straw because you could have a situation where financial markets -- you're assuming -- >> i'm talking about politics. >> i know. but you say the markets is led by the politics. you're assuming they're always going to get money in bailouts. >> not always going to get bailouts. >> but in terms of what's the significance of help sthem say' okay, we'll give you support? doct >> greece didn't play the game. they had 24 months to engage in the eu and stay on course and we saw what happened to "greasgre . >> numbers don't add up in greece. >> that's