this is the president of russia. it's actually quite late in the game even in the first year of a presidency for him to be meeting with vladimir putin, but if he goes in there without an agenda, which is what the white house sort of indicated when they briefed reporters about this trip and confirmed the meeting was happening, that is a huge risk for him and the united states because you can bet vladimir putin coming in with a big agenda of his own, including he wants to see the sanctions that have been imposed on russia for the seizure of crimea, the interference in ukraine and the meddling in the elections lifted and that he wants to seek common grounds and cooperation in some of the areas including syria that phil mentioned in mighting i.s.i.s., but what is he -- in fighting i.s.i.s., but what is he prepared to give in return? if it's not clear what the united states is seeking or what points we want to make, what points donald trump needs to make with regard to election meddling both here and abroad, then he could

-russia relationships. he's trying to rebuild his presidency and he's on the plane ride back and he gets the call from "the new york times." they're coming out with this story on don, jr. so every time this president and this presidency try to take a turn, a turn back to the mid 40st, a turn back away from russia, a new story, a new bombshell seems to come right at them. and that has been the story of this first six months. they do all these different things on populism and bannon and trump and steven miller but at the end of the day, it's the cloud, as the president itself has called it that hangs over him. >> rose: bob casta thank you for coining us, pleasure. we'll be right back, stay with us. >> president trump returned to washington from france this weekend. it was his second trip overseas in as many weeks. earlier this month he was in hamburg, germany for the g20 summit. during the annual trump sat down with president putin in a widely covered bilateral meeting. it was revealed earlier today that trum

he's watched russia become a mafia state. and rather than being appalled by it, it seems to me he is embracing it. and the mafia state that putin has put together. it's an interesting trays but what does it really mean. what you see is a sense of oligarchs and crime bosses that comes up again and again and again. putin allows them to work and allows them to become wealthy as long as they're serving putin's interest and a long as they don't challenge him politically. >> many of them seem to take interest in trump property. trump tower was a demand property from the very beginning. >> right. but you have to wonder about money laundering though in this. if you look at special counsel robert mueller and look at the people's he's hired recent ly hired lisa pay who has enormous experience. and andrew wiseman who is also an expert in money laundering. >> i want to get to that in a minute would you think the investigation might be going and whether or not it could be looking into some of this. but among, you highlight sell of these k

he was asked if russia meddled in the election what would you do about it, he said, i think it was russia, could have been people from other countries, nobody knows for sure, once again casting doubt, and attacking president obama for not doing more about it even though president trump isn't sure it really happened, and then mentioning the whole iraq war intelligence fiasco to say who really knows with these intelligence agencies anyway. so these mixed messages are really a very interesting product of the first day. >> it's the full spectrum trump. you have donald trump in many ways, you know, the obsessive, micromanaging partisan figure, and then this very bombastic speech. i want to ask you about the speech. donald trump seems to have embraced the full-on clash of civilizations rhetoric in this speech. did you hear anything new in what he had to say? >> no, but the context of where he gave the speech. remember first stop in europe the poland. not france, germany or britain. poland, warsaw, where they have a government, the law an justice party government which is a catholic right-wing g

he a fears the independent counsel will investigate things beyond russia. he fears that-- . >> rose: meaning the building of his. >> financial empire. he fathers his children will be dragged into this in a way that will be really bad for their lives. and he fears that people will start cooperating with the independent counsel. creating all sorts of potential problems. >> rose: to save their own skin. >> to save their own skin. and obviously he fears this will block anything he could do to make him a tbreat presidency. >> rose: and perhaps re-election. >> for sure. he may fear substantially more than that but he fears at a minimum those things. >> a couple of those things is he right to fear. his children, don, jr. is now being dragged in the middle of this. jared kushner, his son in law is dragged in the middle thereby dragging in some sense at least by marriage his daughter into it. and so that is happening. they're already in the middle of this now. and it is also the case that depending how you define things outside the scope of russia and again there is

i don't believe this administration will be defined by russia. in the final a sl-- analysis i think mr. mueller will find there is no collusion there may have been wrongdoing by individuals. the administration will be defined by what it does or fails to get done. and right now the ice is thin. and when it breaks it is going to break pretty damn dramically unless they begin to deliver. they do get about 14 months. you get the fall and the first quarter of 18 but after that, nothing happens and you don't want to go into the mid terms with your party staying at home angry and the other party marching in the streets. that is a recipe for a waive. >> trump as president will be defined between now and right before the mid term elections, six months before the mid term election. >> absent some extraordinary crisis abroad, yes. >> hugh is absolutely right. we all send enormous amounts of time talking about the russian investigation. that dominates theadlines. but i do think when votedders go to vote in 2018 in the congressional mid terms, i agree 100%. i

the rules that caused him to recuse himself from the russia investigation would also make him have to recuse himself from anything having to do with hillary clinton because of his involvement in the trump campaign. >> rose: we turn to jeremy grantham, chief strategist at g.m.o. we talk about controversial views on the future of capitalism. >> i think the biggest risk to american society is the drift to more corporate power in politics and through monopolies and so on, unless -- and less to the workers and the destruction of the unions and the income inequality where we are 20t 20th out of 20 rich countries. we are the most unequal society. also, the speed with which you can move from one economic class to another. one always used to think of america as being extremely mobile. we're the stickiest, the most difficult society in the developed 20 countries -- >> rose: to go from lower class to the middle class. >> yes. >> rose: politics and economy when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news a

the continuing coverage of the investigation into possible collusion between the trump campaign and russia. we talk to do shannon pettypiece of bloomberg news and ed o'keefe of "the washington post." >> we have not heard much from the president today. his twitter feed has kind of been eeriely quiet. he was a bit quiet yesterday as well. and sarah huckabee saunders spokesperson to the deputy press secretary put out a statement from the president, a very short brief statement calling his, complimenting his son and saying i admire his transparency. i typically would expect the president is not one who is shy, obviously to lean into controversy when he's attacked, he fights back. of all people to be drug over the coals, his own son, his family is very important to him. >> we continue with charlie's conversation with the cast of the new production of george orwell's 1984. it is with reed birney, tom sturridge and olivia wilde. >> this is a play that speaks to our times and that's why it's really important we all experience it together. >> we conclude with the actor and comedian kumail nanjiani

i think the whitehouse house to figure out what's the strategy with dealing with the russia probe in the midst of all that. they need to create a clear separation between the president and the governing part of the whitehouse and the russia investigation part of management control. and move down both those tracks simultaneously. that's where we're going to be for a while and that hasn't been very effective for them so far. they're going to have to figure out how to separate scandal management from governs and put some things on the board. >> rose: do either of you know, speaking of the russian probe, an answer to why the president's so resistent to this probe, other than there is something that's damaging to him, whatever it is. >> i think there is at a minimum, there's a trump style that says basically you give no quarter when you're under attack or you're under siege. so you give no ground. is that because there's something working in the shadows or because he's afraid that was not fighting everybody every step of the way is a signal of weakness. i don't think we know which of thos

., jared kushner and ivanka trump, if he starts moving into business dealings with russia. so you can imagine a situation where the family members would have quite an incentive to stop that investigation before it uncovers things that could potentially cause them tremendous problems. >> rose: it's hard, the shifting factions within the white house or what we know about them from the reporting because they're not united on s said to be opposed to theon hiring of the new communications chief. >> right. >> rose: according to the reports i've read, i mean, whereas others who you think would not necessarily even have an opinion were in favor of it. >> right. that's true. i mean, one of the -- one of the key dynamics at the moment is that steve bannon and reince priebus, the chief of staff, have become allies of convenience in a feud against jared kushner and ivanka trump. that is probably, in terms of the hottest conflicts in the white house, that's probably right up at the top, and jared and ivanka distrust reince priebus, they think he's incomp at the present time and want him

the president was about the decision by jeff sessions to recuse himself from all things relate to the russia investigation. that's been out there for a while. but we've never heard it from the president's voice and we've never heard it in such a kind of a dismissive way and in an angry way about what sessions had done. it's as if that decision has led to this cascading of an investigation. it's obviously more complicated than that. there's a different time line that the president is overlooking as to how we got to this point with the mueller investigation. but it has to be humiliating to the attorney general to be operating like this. and as i say, i think the only thing he can do is he seemed to do on thursday is swallow his pride and try to carry on as long as he can. >> jeff: the time line part of this is important from the presidential perspective and maybe hasn't been examined as much. but there's also the question shannon of finding someone if sessions did resign or was fired to find someone willing to take that job then. >> yes, almost as hard as finding someone to take the communicat

he has watched russia become a mafia state. rather than being appalled by it, it seems to me he's embracing it. the mafia state putin's put together, it's an interesting phrase, but what does it really mean? and what you see is a system of oligarchs and mafia crime bosses, and putin allows them to work, allows them to become wealthy. as long as they're serving putin's interests and as long as they don't challenge him politically. >> you make the case that, when trump really had his financial crisis, when atlantic city went south in the late '80s, that it was russian money that, in part, helped bail him out. >> right. how so? e was 4 billion in debt, had 800 million in personal set debt. he couldn't continue. he couldn't get a bank loan anywhere. in 2002, a company called bay rock moved into trump tower, and they are a real estate development company and wanted to partner with him. essentially, they made him an offer that he could not and did not refuse where they put up about a billion dollars in financing or helped raise the m

has brought relative stability to russia. anybody old enough to remember the '90s will remember the political and economic chaos of that, so that is the first step. the second step is re-creating russian traditions like the orthodox church, pre-soviet traditions like the kosics into a level of pride in shared religion and traditions, and that's tapped into a collective identity that russia's long had, and that means that the pride that russians feel, the patriotism that russians feel today, yes, there

and that's capped into a collective identity that russia long had. and that means that the pride that russians feel, the patriotism that russians feel, there's some manipulation, some propaganda, a lot of oppression, but it is also a genuine perception that putin has made the country more stable, has made it better. russia is able to project power and that means that putin's popularity is genuine >> it's nostalgia >> it is and imperial grantjer. some would call it dilution. but it's also genuine, legitimate in the sense that you have russian traditions, russian religion, the orthodox church an real sense of the ability to project power. that is fundamental the russian identity and putin brought that back>> glor: a combination of old and new >> it's not quite 100% but it is 60 or 70%. things like syria are able to convince russians that putin is strong, he's respected on the international stage. and he can project russian power. a lot of that comes from russian propaganda. you get an echo of the points on russian tv from some of these anchors saying t

at the top of the list the president's growing concern over the russia probes. shannon pettypiece joinings me, covers the white house for "bloomberg news." and in washington dan balz, chief correspondent for "the washington post." welcome to both of you. shannon, let me start in studio big news of the station sean spicer is out as communications director. >> and anthony scar moochie, finance year and italian and long backer of trump is in as communications director. there's not a sense he will be doing much communications messaging, strategy. he will most be doing tv appearances, possibly the podium and be a public face for trump in the white house but not necessarily anyone who understands washington, understands congress, understands messaging. >> glor: it's interesting, there are similarities between the president and anthony scarmucci, the native new yorker, the fighter, anthony's more finance, the president real estate, but there are similarities. >> there are. they're both combative, both money people, they're both new york. they speak a similar language i