i think the whitehouse house to figure out what's the strategy with dealing with the russia probe in the midst of all that. they need to create a clear separation between the president and the governing part of the whitehouse and the russia investigation part of management control. and move down both those tracks simultaneously. that's where we're going to be for a while and that hasn't been very effective for them so far. they're going to have to figure out how to separate scandal management from governs and put some things on the board. >> rose: do either of you know, speaking of the russian probe, an answer to why the president's so resistent to this probe, other than there is something that's damaging to him, whatever it is. >> i think there is at a minimum, there's a trump style that says basically you give no quarter when you're under attack or you're under siege. so you give no ground. is that because there's something working in the shadows or because he's afraid that was not fighting everybody every step of the way is a signal of weakness. i don't think we know which of thos

., jared kushner and ivanka trump, if he starts moving into business dealings with russia. so you can imagine a situation where the family members would have quite an incentive to stop that investigation before it uncovers things that could potentially cause them tremendous problems. >> rose: it's hard, the shifting factions within the white house or what we know about them from the reporting because they're not united on s said to be opposed to theon hiring of the new communications chief. >> right. >> rose: according to the reports i've read, i mean, whereas others who you think would not necessarily even have an opinion were in favor of it. >> right. that's true. i mean, one of the -- one of the key dynamics at the moment is that steve bannon and reince priebus, the chief of staff, have become allies of convenience in a feud against jared kushner and ivanka trump. that is probably, in terms of the hottest conflicts in the white house, that's probably right up at the top, and jared and ivanka distrust reince priebus, they think he's incomp at the present time and want him

at that moment i think trump , awoke to the danger that the russia probe posed to him. he sent bannon back from saudi arabia to try to stand up some kind of outside legal war room to fight harder. charlie: is he in control of that? josh: i don't think he is. he knew that the lawyer from the campaign, when they were fighting off these accusations from women who said that trump had groped them. bannon and the lawyer knew each other well. charlie: this is what is interesting to me. the person trump seems to admire the most is james mattis. general mattis. he has given him the most power. he can make decisions on the battlefield and getting praise from military strategists. it may say something about his admiration for people that he thinks are tough -- josh: i would go a step further and say, veneration. especially for military generals. one thing you noticed in the campaign is whenever trump was in trouble, he would surround himself with generals. when he was finally forced to apologize for the birther slander, do you remember what he did? he calls the very strange press

has brought relative stability to russia. anybody old enough to remember the '90s will remember the political and economic chaos of that, so that is the first step. the second step is re-creating russian traditions like the orthodox church, pre-soviet traditions like the kosics into a level of pride in shared religion and traditions, and that's tapped into a collective identity that russia's long had, and that means that the pride that russians feel, the patriotism that russians feel today, yes, there

and that's capped into a collective identity that russia long had. and that means that the pride that russians feel, the patriotism that russians feel, there's some manipulation, some propaganda, a lot of oppression, but it is also a genuine perception that putin has made the country more stable, has made it better. russia is able to project power and that means that putin's popularity is genuine >> it's nostalgia >> it is and imperial grantjer. some would call it dilution. but it's also genuine, legitimate in the sense that you have russian traditions, russian religion, the orthodox church an real sense of the ability to project power. that is fundamental the russian identity and putin brought that back>> glor: a combination of old and new >> it's not quite 100% but it is 60 or 70%. things like syria are able to convince russians that putin is strong, he's respected on the international stage. and he can project russian power. a lot of that comes from russian propaganda. you get an echo of the points on russian tv from some of these anchors saying t

he has watched russia become a mafia state. rather than being appalled by it, it seems to me he's embracing it. the mafia state putin's put together, it's an interesting phrase, but what does it really mean? and what you see is a system of oligarchs and mafia crime bosses, and putin allows them to work, allows them to become wealthy. as long as they're serving putin's interests and as long as they don't challenge him politically. >> you make the case that, when trump really had his financial crisis, when atlantic city went south in the late '80s, that it was russian money that, in part, helped bail him out. >> right. how so? e was 4 billion in debt, had 800 million in personal set debt. he couldn't continue. he couldn't get a bank loan anywhere. in 2002, a company called bay rock moved into trump tower, and they are a real estate development company and wanted to partner with him. essentially, they made him an offer that he could not and did not refuse where they put up about a billion dollars in financing or helped raise the m

at the top of the list the president's growing concern over the russia probes. shannon pettypiece joinings me, covers the white house for "bloomberg news." and in washington dan balz, chief correspondent for "the washington post." welcome to both of you. shannon, let me start in studio big news of the station sean spicer is out as communications director. >> and anthony scar moochie, finance year and italian and long backer of trump is in as communications director. there's not a sense he will be doing much communications messaging, strategy. he will most be doing tv appearances, possibly the podium and be a public face for trump in the white house but not necessarily anyone who understands washington, understands congress, understands messaging. >> glor: it's interesting, there are similarities between the president and anthony scarmucci, the native new yorker, the fighter, anthony's more finance, the president real estate, but there are similarities. >> there are. they're both combative, both money people, they're both new york. they speak a similar language i

has brought relative stability to russia. anybody old enough to remember the '90s will remember the political and economic chaos of that, so that is the first step. the second step is re-creating russian traditions like the orthodox church, pre-soviet traditions like the kosics into a level of pride in shared religion and traditions, and that's tapped into a collective identity that russia's long had, and that means that the pride that russians feel, the patriotism that russians feel today, yes, there is some manipulation, there is some propaganda, there is a lot of repression, but it is also a genuine perception that putin has made the country more stable. >> glor: we continue with steven cook of the council of foreign relations and talk about the recent saudi arabian-led block aid of qatar and what it means for the middle east and the u.s. >> the qatarys are going to be isolated from the region. there is too much mistrust now among the leaders of these countries for them to repair the relationship in a way where there is co

rt and the most popular anchor in russia admits information is a weapon and they have aimed it at russia's in these. that means trying to destabilize the west through propaganda campaigns. the propaganda campaigns went far into the united states. president trump certainly echoes some of those propaganda points. >> information has been weaponize. cyber warfare has been weaponize. >> it is one in the same. the russians do not see it differently. early last year, there was a fake story about the so-called rape of a german/russian girl. it was fake great the russian media new that it was fake. the russian foreign minister new it was fate but used it as a tool against german chancellor angela merkel. you have a real notion all of this combined, whether diplomacy, information, you can use all of the tools at your disposal to try to weaken your enemy. >> there is economic suffering in russia. i wonder how the putin administration fends off any negative discussion of that. >> this is where you see a generational divide. this is what we are seeing in the last few months. a lot of people say the 90'

they want to see sanctions on russia. they voted for that, they intend to have a house of representatives go along, as well. this is the risk for president trump that he is so far apart from his own party on this issue, he risks having the weakest policy toward russia of any president in 70 years, and that's a dangerous point for him politically. jeff: so much of the talk has been on the meeting with putin, but there are other important parts of this summit. including the relationship with germany. that relationship with angela merkel has been uneven at best so far. what do you think the u.s. might do to work on that, and do you think the president is interested in working on that? nicholas: i hope he is. the united states is not in a good position with our nato allies. president trump has been very ambivalent about nato. he's been quite critical of the european union. he tends to talk about germany more as an economic competitor, our trade balance, than as a nato ally. combined with his decision on climate change, to wit

government. >> we have very good relations with russia because russia is a very important neighbor of iran, is an important partner for iran and we engage with russia. we have similar views on many subjects. >> rose: what's your relationship with the turkish government. >> we have very good relations with turkey government. we have some difference of view with turkish government on some regional issues but our relations with turkey are excellent. and we engage with turkey on issues that we disagree with. including syria. we have engaged more closely probably with turkey on syria than any other country because we feel these issues should be dealt with through dialogue and multilateral discussions. iran, turkey and russia i said are parts of the process and we've been able to do some good. >> rose: that's part one of a two-part series of a conversation with the foreign minister of iran javad zarif. tomorrow night, part two. for more about this program and early episodes visit us on-line at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access

charlie: did you approve russia coming in? -- made a point that they were invited in by the assad government. were you ok with russia coming in to prop up the assad government? mr. javad sharif: what we have said is that we do not interfere in the decision by a sovereign government. i give you a clearer example. we disagree with the united states, but we do not intervene against the united states cooperating with the iraqi government. we have not intervened against it. because we believe that is a decision that the iraqi government should make. we may oppose it, but it is their decision. charlie: so do you encourage the government of iraq? to make sure that members of the sunni islam, are not shut out from government? so that they do not see what we have seen time after time, first al qaeda, then isis, come out of people who felt like they were excluded. javad zarif: we believe that the iraqi government should be inclusive. charlie: and you encourage the iraqi government to do that. mr. javad sharif: absolutely. charlie: the m

she now because she's been tough on russia. because she stood up for the european union, because she's been very strong on nato, she now is perceived to be the leading western leader and i think it behooves president trump to have a better relationship with her. and we ought to want to see the united states in a position of influence with our largest trade partner, that is the eu. our largest investor, that is the eu and our largest collection cl of american allies in the world, that is the nato alliance. >> glor: isn't it fundamentally that president trump and merkel and macron just have different visions, politically? >> i president trump has a different vision. because going back to harry tru man, every american president has supported the european project, what has become the eu and of course supported nato it has been the ambivalence that president trump has shown as president that has really rattled the europeans. and you have seen that chancellor merkel and president macron have had to fill that void in europe which is n

>> seeking concessions from russia? what they would want to do, what they have talked about doing, is establishing a channel where they could potentially cooperate to reach some sort of settlement or resolution to the situation. of a has been talking special envoy for ukraine, potentially getting the united states, ukraine, and russia at the table to talk about potential solutions to de-escalate the situation, of course. whether or not they can make advances on syria, there's idea of a peace agreement in the way that john kerry was talking about last year. whether they can take the temperature down a bit and do a better job of cooperating in the efforts against the islamic state, that's an open question that they would want to ask for. the question for the united states and president trump is whether he would want to or seek to ease to lift the sanctions that are on russia as a result of what's happening in the ukrainian elections. congress has weighed in pretty on legislationg a couple of weeks ago to codify those sanc

that's the way you figure politics in russia. from their perspective, hillary was going to win because the establishment was going to ensure a win. i think the russians were probably more surprised than the americans that trump actually won. i believe that. but it's hard for me to imagine -- but you have no doubt that they hacked and attempted to influence the election one way or the other. ian: no doubt whatsoever. charlie: but where you can't go yet is a collusion between the president of russia and his government and his intelligence operatives, and members of the trump team providing them something which would have clearly been beyond the pale. ian: and that they would have gotten something in return, some commitment of meaningful offers. charlie: or they wanted to do it because they thought they had some leverage on the president, and if he was elected, they would have an advantage. ian: but it clearly seems there were many people around trump, some quite high-level, that were compromised by the russians. charlie: compromise

if he starts moving to do business dealings in connection to russia. so you can imagine a situation where the family members would have quite an incentive to stop the investigation before it uncovers things that cause a potential problem. charlie: the shifting factions in the white house, it is really hard, because they are not united on issues that are necessarily consistent. for example, bannon was said to be opposed to the hiring of the new communications chief. according to the reports i read. whereas, others you would think would not have an opinion, were in favor of it. jonathan: that's true. i mean, one of the key dynamics at the moment is that steve bannon and reince priebus have become allies of convenience in a feud against jared kushner and ivanka trump. that is probably in terms of the hottest conflicts in the white house, that is probably right at the top. and jared and ivanka distrust reince priebus, they think he is incompetent, and they want him out of the job. to the extent which steve bannon sees them as ideological enemies, he wants

he gets to escape the headlines of the russia investigation. he does get to establish a personal relationship with some of these leaders, which is something he is comfortable with. he is very transactional. a relationship with a foreign leader can be transactional. that might be an area where he is more comfortable, as opposed to dealing with congress where you have hundreds of people you are trying to get on the same page. >> it is really all about these bilateral discussions with him, right? >> shannon is right. foreign policy is often where presidents who are embattled turn to because they have greater latitude. as she said, you do have to worry but every member of congress and their views on it. you are the president of the united states dealing with another head of state. that creates a different dynamic. we know one thing about president trump. he likes to deal one-on-one with people. he likes to get to know them. he likes to take a measure of them. he feels he knows how to get the upper hand on adversaries or any kind of relationship lik

the president was about the decision by jeff sessions to recuse himself from all things relate to the russia investigation. that's been out there for a while. but we've never heard it from the president's voice and we've never heard it in such a kind of a dismissive way and in an angry way about what sessions had done. it's as if that decision has led to this cascading of an investigation. it's obviously more complicated than that. there's a different time line that the president is overlooking as to how we got to this point with the mueller investigation. but it has to be humiliating to the attorney general to be operating like this. and as i say, i think the only thing he can do is he seemed to do on thursday is swallow his pride and try to carry on as long as he can. >> jeff: the time line part of this is important from the presidential perspective and maybe hasn't been examined as much. but there's also the question shannon of finding someone if sessions did resign or was fired to find someone willing to take that job then. >> yes, almost as hard as finding someone to take the communicat

john dowd will be the lead attorney on the team dealing with special prosecutor robert mueller's russia investigation. dowd is denying reports the president wants to highlight potential conflict of interest on the special counsel's team. iran's deputy foreign minister a

do you see the tone improving , whether it is europe and russia or the u.s. and russia either way? ,david: no, basically because , there are too many divided interests. --sia is interesting interested in dividing europe further. the european interest is in finding ways to stand up. there are members of the european union equally threatened by what they see as an aggressive russia. i think tone matters. but substance matters more. i think we are at a dangerous period, because the global system has been built over the had an american anger, but it also had other multilateral institutions like the european union. if you pull up the anchor, the boat starts rocking. that is the danger. it creates space. when the american anchor in the global system isn't there, when ,"ere is "unpredictability someone in the administration wants to make unpredictability if you are a small country is a , good thing to have up your sleeve. if you are the world's anchor, predictability is very important because you are the benchmark against what everyone else establishes their behavior. especially with the

senate has just approved that new round of sanctions against russia, iran, and north korea. an overwhelming majority voted in favor of the bill. >> senator mccain returns fair crucial vote on health care. >> we been spinning our wheels and keep trying to find a way to win without help from across the aisle. we are getting nothing done, my friends. we're getting nothing done. >> who the hell wants to speak about politics when i'm in front of the boy scouts? >> congratulations to you and everybody over at "cbs this morning." you personally was nominated for two news emmys. >> it's a collaborative art-- i know, not for you. >> the cameras, it's just you and me, folks ♪ give me your, give me your attention, baby ♪ >> this cute baby minding his own business. >> we can stop this horrible bill! >> i would plead one last time-- turn back now before it's too late. >> i'm going to fight with every ounce of my being to stop this. >> anthony scaramucci is the new white house communications chief. >> the incoming white house communications director unleashing on white house staff in