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National Conference on Manpower Programs for Indians (Kansas City, Missouri, February 15-16, 1967). 

Bureau of Employment Security (Dept, of Labor), Washington, D.C. 

Pub Date 15 Feb 67 

EDRS Price MF-$ 1.50 HC -$20.20 

Descriptors- Agencies, Agricultural Occupations, * American Indians, Communication Problems, * Conference 
Reports, * Economic Disadvantagement, Employment Problems, Equal Opportunities (Jobs), * Federal Programs, 
General Education^, Health, Housing * Manpower Development, Sociocultural Patterns, Transportation 
Vocational Education Welfare 

The purposes of the National Conference on Manpower Programs for Indians 
were: (1) to inform tribal leaders of the total resources and programs available to 
American Indians; (2) to learn from tribal leaders more about their problems and 
needs as American citizens; and (3) to create among the participating agencies a 
keener awareness of the need for concerted and cooperative efforts in dealing with 
poverty among Indians. Panel discussions were held on Indian employment problems, 
maximum participation of Indians in developing their programs* and key problems in 
developing employability. The latter topic was further subdivided into training and 
vocational education, health and welfare, general education programs, equal 
employment opportunities, problems related to housing, transportation and 
communication, the importance of cooperation in providing services to Indians, 
agricultural employment opportunities Tor Indians, planning and development of 
reservation programs, and social and cultural considerations. This document presents 
a condensed version of the transcribed proceedings. (CM) 

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February 15—16, 1967 







From BLACK ELK SPEAKS by John G. Neihardt 
University of Nebraska Press 
Lincoln, Nebraska 

+ + + + 

(Standing on a high hill at night and facing the west, Black Elk cried out four times 
"hey-a-hey" before beginning the prayer. He addressed Wakon Tonka as Grandfather, 
because that was the term of greatest respect known to him . ) 

Grandfather, Great Mysterious One, you have been always, and before you 
nothing has been. There is nothing to pray to but you. The star nations all over the 
universe are yours, and yours are the grasses of the earth. Day in, day out, you 
are the life of things. You are older than all need, older than all pain and prayer. 

Grandfather, all over the world the faces of living ones are alike . In 
tenderness they have come up out of the ground. Look upon your children with 
children in their arms, that they may face the winds and walk the Good Road to the 
Day of Quiet. Teach me to walk the soft earth, a relative to all that live. Sweeten 
my heart, and fill me with light . Give me the strength to understand and the eyes 
to see. 

Help me, for without you, I am nothing. 

Hetchetu aloh! 

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Sponsored By: 

The United States Employment Service 
Of The 

Bureau of Employment Security 

President Hotel 
Kansas City, Missouri 

February 15-16, 1967 





BFL J.F J IV9 9 PI l Pgp ff 


The list of barrio ~s to the dignity of full employment for the Indian people is long and 
disheartening, and they are understandably confused and embittered by the many manpower 
programs that have passed them by. Too many remain among the poorest of the poor, 
often stranded on unproductive reservations. Too few gain education, training in skills, 
and opportunity for employment — and those who do all too often must sacrifice their 
Indian heritage in the process. 

Indian leaders are not unaware of success stories, however. They cite the Seattle 
project, which provided skill training for the men and orientation to city life for their 
families. But such a project requires close cooperation by many Government agencies, 
not an easy task. Some agencies are still newborn. Some have never before been called 
on to help the Indians . If, together with the Indian people, they are to attack the barriers 
to employment, they must establish effective communication. So it is first necessary to 
bring together the Indian leaders and the Government representatives who can help them . 

The Kansas City Conference was designed with this objective in mind. There Indian 
leaders met and mingled with representatives from the Departments of Agriculture, 
Commerce, Defense, Interior, Labor and Health, Education, and Welfare, from the 
Civil Service and Equal Employment Opportunity Commissions, and from the Office of 
Economic Opportunity. In addition, they talked on a person-to-person level with repre- 
sentatives of private industry, higher education, and community action organizations. 

The conference was organized as a series of panels, some on different subjects and 
some, running concurrently, on the same subject. Thus, no one participant was able to 
sit in on every discussion. Indeed, most conferees participated in no more than one 
fourth of the panels . These Proceedings are intended to fill in the gaps . 

The full transcript of the conference was, of course, voluminous . The present pub- 
lication offers a condensed version of the transcribed proceedings, prepared under the 
auspices of the Information Office of the Iowa Employment Security agency, with the 
assistance of the Department of Labor's Bureau of Employment Security, and published 
by the Missouri State Employment Security agency . 

Every effort has been made to retain the dramatic flavor of the discussions and, a prime 
objective, to present the needs of the Indian people as communicated to the agencies with 
responsibilities for serving them. 

Understandably, these Proceedings show the Indians to be critical of many of the pro- 
grams and agencies involved in the Conference. In the interests of honest communication, 
however, their critical, but often constructive, comments were retained. We left out some 
critical comments, particularly if they referred to a person. We did not have the means to 
check on the validity of complaints . It is hoped that no participant will take offense, since 
this publication is intended as an overall view of all sessions and a working document for 
the Indians and agencies involved. 

The real and lasting success of the Indian Manpower Conference will depend on what we 
do to meet the problems presented there. Our mutual efforts must extend beyond providing 
mere sustenance to enabling the Indian to join the mainstream of American life without 
losing his unique cultural heritage. 

Arnie Solem 

Regional Administrator 

Bureau of Employment Security 

I extend warmest greetings to those attending the National Indian 
Manpower Conference. 

You convene at a time when America is reaching for greatness. 
Spurred by economic upsurge and commitment to social justice, most 
Americans enjoy unprecedented prosperity. Yet, millions of 
Americans remain untouched by progress, victims of disadvantage. 

By focusing on critical questions, you delegates will help your 
people build richer and fuller lives. May your conference prove 
highly productive . 

W. Willard Wirtz 
Secretary of Labor 




February 15, 1967 ; 

9:00 A.M. 
Grand Ballroom 

Call to Order - Arnie Solem, Regional Administrator 

Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 

"Welcome to The Heart of America" 

Honorable Ilus. W. Davis, Mayor of Kansas City, Missouri 

Remarks - Frank H. Cassell, Director, United States 

Employment Service 

Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 

Remarks - Frank A. Potter, Director, Office of Farm 
Labor Service 

Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 

Remarks - Robert L. Bennett, Commissioner, Bureau 

' of Indian Affairs 

U. S. Department of Interior 

10*30 A M "What Are the Barriers to Satisfactory 

Employment by the Indian People?" 

(This was a frank discussion of Indian employment problems, 
carried on in eight concurrent sessions, with prominent 
Indian leaders chairing each session. See Panels 1-A through 



Arnie Solem - Chairman 

"Maximum Participation of Indians in Developing Their Programs 

An Address by: Dr. Ralph Keen 
Bureau of Indian Services, University of Utah 

Summary of the Panel Discussions 
By: Harry Belvin, Principal Chief 

Choctaw Nation, Oklahoma 



February 15, 1967 - - Continued 

2:00 P.M. SUBJECT: Key Problems in Developing Employability 

(Panels No. 2-A, 2-B, 3, and 4, Concurrently) 




4:30 P.M. ADJ OUR N M_ N__T_ 


Jr. Ballroom 

6:30 P.M. B A N Q U E _T 

Arnie Solem - Toastmaster 
"Black Elk Speaks" 

Presented by: John Neihardt (Flaming Rainbow) 
Poet Laureate of Nebraska 


February 16, 1967 : 
9:00 A.M. 



Problems in 



Developing Employability - Continued 




providing Services to Indian W 



PANEL NO. 7 - - 


February 16, 1967 Continued 




10:30 A.M. Resume Panel Discussions 

11:30 A.M. LUNCH 

12:45 P.M. PANELS NO. 9-A, 9-B, 10> and 11 (Concurrently) 





CRITIQUE OF THE CONFERENCE - Dr. Daniel Kruger , Professor of 

Industrial Relations 

School of Labor & Industrial Relations 
Michigan State University 

CLOSING REMARKS Frank H. Cassell, Director 

* United States Employment Service 

CEREMONY — Inducting Frank H . Cassell into the White Mountain 

Apache Tribe, conducted by Ronnie Lupe, Chairman 
Fort Apache Tribal Council, and his father, 

Nelson Lupe. 





Atomic Energy Commission 



Area Redevelopment Administration 



Bureau of Public Roads (D/C) 



Bureau of Vital Statistics 



Bureau of Work Programs 



Bureau of Employment Security 



Bureau of Indian Affairs 



Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training 



Bureau of Adult & Vocational Education (HEW) 



Community Action Programs 



Commission on Fair Employment Practices 



Commission on Civil Rights 



Committee for Rural Development Programs 



Civil Service Commission 



Corps of Engineers 



Department of Public Welfare 



Division of Economic Opportunity 



Department of Defense 



Department of Health, Education & Welfare 



Economic Development Administration 



Equal Employment Opportunity Commission 



Farm Security Administration 



Federal Housing Authority 



Farmers Home Administration 



Human Resources Development 


HAA - 



MAC - 
NYC - 

OEO - 

USD A - 

VRA - 

Housing Assistance Administration 
Housing Planning Programs 
Job Corps 

Manpower Advisory Committee 

Maximum Utilization of Skills and Training 

Manpower Development and Training Act 

Mille Lacs Community Action Program 

National Association of Intergroup Relations Officers 

Neighborhood Youth Corps (See also: BWP - Bureau of Work Programs) 

National Congress of Indians (Full title: National Congress of American 

Office of Federal Contract Compliance 

Office of Farm Labor Service 

Office of Navajo Economic Opportunity 

Office of Economic Opportunity 

Office of Equal Employment Opportunity 

Opportunities of Industrialization Centers 

Parent -Teacher Association 

Post Office (See also: POD - Post Office Department) 

Public Health Service 

Plans for Progress 

Small Business Administration 

Social Security Administration 

United States Employment Service 

U. S. Department of Agriculture 

U. S. Department of Labor 

Veterans Administration 

Vocational Rehabilitation Administration 

(Also known as: VR - Vocational Rehabilitation) 




United States Employment Service 
Bureau of Employment Security 
U.S. Department of Labor * 

I bring you cordial greetings and a special welcome from the Secretary of Labor 
and the United States Employment Service and its affiliated State employment security 
agencies . 

I am especially pleased to be able to welcome the tribal leaders to this 
conference. Your participation insures that during the deliberations over the next two 
days we will not overlook the best possible source of Counsel on fighting and ending 
poverty in the Indian community . 

It is a pleasure to welcome coparticipants from the Departments of Agriculture; 
Commerce; Defense; Interior; Labor; Health, Education, and Welfare; Housing and Urban 
Development; the Office of Economic Opportunity; and the National Congress of American 
Indians. These are agencies with whom we normally work. 

I welcome also the representatives of business, interested citizens, and 
representatives of concerned organizations. All of the participants in this conference 
provide services to the Indian. Those services briefly stated but certainly not all- 
inclusive are: 

1. The Bureau of Indian Affairs - In addition to a comprehensive program of 
services, has cooperated with other agencies and interested organizations in bringing 
various self-help and other programs to Indian reservations. 

2. National Congress of American Indians - Promotes the interest of the 
American Indian and concerns itself with problems of the Indian throughout the country. 

3. Department of Agriculture - Provides programs in such areas as education, 
community services, economic developments, and natural resources. 

4. Department of Commerce - Provides public works assistance on reservations 
and business loans for economic development. 

5 . Department of Housing and Urban Development - Conducts building and 
building renewal programs (often in conjunction with employment) and provides for small 
building and business loans. 

6. Office of Economic Opportunity - Has an assortment of programs in Indian 
communities and on reservations. The better known programs include Job Corps, VISTA 
volunteers, the Head-Start program, and local CAP's. 

* Mr. Cassell, on loan from the Inland Steel Company, returned to private industry in 
August 1967. Mr. Charles E. Odell succeeded him as Director of the United States 
Employment Service. 


7. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare - Through its Public Health 
Service provides numerous services on reservations throughout the country. 

8 . Department of Defense - Has promoted the employment of Indian workers 
with employers located near reservations. 

9. Department of Labor - The Farm Labor Service has conducted annual 
recruitment of Indian workers for agricultural employment opportunities; the Bureau of 
Apprenticeship and Training has promoted and developed on-the-job training programs, 
including apprenticeships; the Neighborhood Youth Corps has provided thousands of 
Indian youths with part-time work and part-time study programs thereby enabling them 
to complete their schooling. 

We are grateful indeed to all of these agencies for having representatives here 
to meet with the tribal leadership of this country to discuss ways and means of 
strengthening current efforts and of devising new ways of combating joblessness, under- 
employment, and poverty among Indians. 

During these discussions it will be helpful I believe to remember one stubborn j 

fact; that is, despite the activities to end poverty, unemployment among Indians has 1 

remained many times higher than that of any other group in the United States with 
unemployment on some reservations running as high as 75 percent. 

The purpose of this conference is three fold: First, to inform die tribal leaders 
of this Nation of the total resources and programs which are available to the American 
Indian and which we believe, with their support, can be made increasingly available to 
a larger number of Indian citizens. 

Second, to learn from tribal leaders more about their problems and needs as 
American citizens, to get their advice as to how we can do better some of the things we 
are already doing. 

Third, to create among the participating agencies a keener awareness of, and 
appreciation for, the need for concerted and cooperative efforts in dealing with poverty 
among Indians. 

Hopefully, as a result of this conference, we as copartners can fulfill the national 
commitment to help individuals who need assistance in becoming self-sufficient and 
productive . 

The Employment Service is deeply concerned that ways be found to prevent the 
waste of manpower. Accordingly the service has embarked upon a massive program 
called "Human Resources Development." 

Many programs of the past have often failed to benefit the hard-core unemployed 
on Indian reservations simply because they did not cover such practical problems as poor 
transportation, bad communication, lack of training, and education. The Human Resources 
Development program attempts to focus on the total person, taking into account his back- 
ground, his experience, his customs, and habits. 


We are attempting, by means of a person-to-person approach, to reach out and 
assist all those who need job readiness help. The aim is to help each individual develop 
a realistic plan of action to improve his employability and obtain a self-sustaining job. 

Working with each individual is time-consuming and costly. The return, however, 
on the investment in effort can be measured in terms of: an increase of workers needed 
to fill shortages; taking people off relief and making them taxpayers and consumers, and 
giving more people a better chance to participate in opportunity, thus insuring for them 
and their children freedom from dependency . 

There is a critical lack of "qualified" manpower which is demonstrated by the 
numerous job openings that we are unable to fill. Traditional recruitment methods and 
the traditional hiring practices of personnel people in industry and government will not 
suffice. It should be kept in mind that the emphasis on human resources is relevant to 
our progress in eliminating poverty, ending discrimination in employment, and assuring 
a higher standard of individual fulfillment. Human Resources Development was created 
so that the employment service could fulfill its full responsibilities to employers in need 
of workers and to the hard-core unemployed in need of jobs. 

It is clear, however, that a single agency cannot do this job alone. We must seek 
and obtain the support of the leadership of community organizations both public and 
private together with employers. 

The success of this endeavor depends upon the efforts of Indian leadership in 
reaching out to Indians residing both on and off reservations. It follows, therefore, 
that the active leadership of Indian leaders is needed to produce the training and the 
employability services basic to securing employment. 

Employers and educators need to take special measures to develop job opportunity 
and training for Indian people. It is imperative that jobs and training opportunities be 
provided far beyond those that can be funded directly under existing Federal and State 
program s . 

Public and voluntary agencies need to redirect a major portion of their efforts 
to those who most need their services to improve their employability. 

Finally, we are asking the assistance of all employers and trade unions, as well 
as all other public and voluntary agencies, to aid in the publication and distribution of 
employment and related information through media and in forms which are useful to the 

In the next two days we hope that focus will be upon the total needs of the 
American Indian, particularly those related to manpower. Proposing meaningful solu- 
tions and practical and needed programs will require commitment and hard work from 
each conference participant. 

I would like to express my appreciation to Mr. Bennett and his staff, to Tod Potter 
and his staff, and to Mr. Vine Deloria and Mr. John Belindo of the National Congress of 
American Indians for their individual assistance in the preparations for this conference. 

I am especially grateful to the Bureau of Indian Affairs for its cooperation with State 
employment security agencies in making arrangements for the travel of tribal represen- 

I came to learn and to gain wisdom from your counsel. I look forward with you 
to two days of productive deliberation. 




Office of Farm Labor Service 
Bureau of Employment Security 
U.S. Department of Labor 

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Cassell, Mr. Bennett, Tribal delegates, Federal and 

State agency representatives, friends and guests it is a distinct personal 

pleasure for me to be here to represent the Office of Farm Labor Service and have 
a part in the vitally important, significant and challenging discussions on National 
Indian employment. 

Indians and the Office of Farm Labor Service, of course, are not strangers 
to each other. But, I think it's appropriate and worthwhile here to go back a few 

years review briefly touch on a few highlights and bring the history 

of services to Indians up to date. By this I mean services of the Office of Farm 
Labor Service, which is my area of direct responsibility. 

Office of Farm Labor Service is a part of the Bureau of Employment Security. 

Operations are an interlocking function a combination or dove -tailing of 

services. This is more readily apparent, or in evidence, to the public in the home 
community in the local State employment service office. 

Indian workers were generally employed in agriculture in the years prior 

to 1948 particularly during the manpower shortage years of the Second World 

War. However, as it pertains to the Department of Labor and the Office of Farm 
Labor Service, 1948 marked a decisive jumping off point---when greater numbers of 
Indian workers became involved in agricultural employment on a more organized 
basis. This was through the extension of recruitment services to the reservations 
in Western and Southwestern States. 

Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah developed a cooperative agreement with the 

U. S. Indian Service or Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Navajo Tribal 

Council which established guidelines for carrying out recruitment and referral of 
Navajo workers on interstate job orders. 

At about the same time other States were reporting significant increases in 
numbers of Indian workers moving into agricultural employment. These were 

California, Idaho, Montana, Oregon and Washington. Elsewhere other States 

like South Dakota, Wyoming, and North Dakota began coming into recruitment 
programs on an annual, continuing, organized basis. 

Essentially — high unemployment and poor economic conditions were the 
principal reasons which led to development of cooperative agreements and efforts 
to step up services to Indians on the reservations. 

Also recognized was the need to help Indian workers to become a more 
productive, participating part of the Nation's labor force--- — or more appropriately 
the farm labor force. Subsequently, a formal agreement was entered into with the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs in 1950 to make employment services more readily available 
to Indians on the reservations. Among the ways this was done was through establish- 
ing mobile trailer offices and regularly scheduled itinerant services on reservations 
and utilizing radio -telephone communications. 



Facilities and services have been expanded since then, thus, enabling annual 
recruitment and placement of hundreds of Indian workers in various^ jobs in 

agriculture. This employment is principally in the fruit and vegetable harvests 

and lately in more jobs in the food processing industry, in irrigation and in farm 
equipment operation. 

Incidentally, Indians have also been on the Office of Farm Labor Service pay- 
roll over the years---as interpreters, recruiters, and interviewers and will continue 
to be employed in these jobs. Some of the Indians have left Office of Farm Labor 
Service employment to go on to other jobs or move up in the Bureau of Employment 
Service to positions such as local office manager. One of the Indian employees, an 
ex-reservation recruiter in South Dakota, is a member of our national office of 
Farm Labor Service staff in Washington. 

Office of Farm Labor Services services to Indians increased significantly in 
1965 following the termination of large scale importation of workers from Mexico. 

Along with this increased activity, the Office of Farm Labor Service in the 

past 14 months has held four National level Indian conferences- two at Bismarck, 

North Dakota and two at Albuquerque, New Mexico with tribal representatives 

from various States and reservations . The regional and State agency offices have 
also held similar meetings with tribal groups. 

These meetings as well as others in the past have been quite productive and 

helpful in establishing closer working relationships in arriving at better plans 

and ways of carrying out recruitment and placement -----in other words in getting 
the job done . 

The subject matter of these meetings will be aired in more detail in the 
agricultural employment panel on Thursday . 

The formal agreements, memorandums of understanding, cooperative work 
agreements entered into with the Bureau of Indian Affairs -----Division of Indian Health 

Tribal councils and other agencies have all been key steps in the over-all 

growth of services to Indians and is a pattern that should be continued. The coopera- 
tive agreements with tribal councils are particularly important. They have had the 

effect of putting the work we do on a personal equal partnership or teamwork 

basis. And I submit that this is the best way that goals can be achieved. These 
agreements, too, will come in for more discussion in our panel on Thursday. 

This, then, is a brief fill-in on the history of services to Indians. It's a 
history of steady growth and accomplishments by Indian workers. 

1966 has been a record year in the number of jobs filled by Indian farm workers . 
This is where we are today. But, we're not satisfied. There is still a lot of work to 
be done such as in the field of worker training training to keep in step with auto- 

mation or mechanization taking place in the agriculture industry . This is a challenging 
job that we have been working on. But more than anything else, we know and you know 

that the major problem -and I don't mean Indian problem -----is the high rate of^ 

unemployment on the reservations or in the Indian populated areas. That is why we re 
here to get together work together to get the most out of National Manpower 

Programs and related available services. Actually, I feel that this is really your 

meeting. I'm here to listen to get your ideas and thinking and get something 

done towards incorporating them in Office of Farm Labor Service plans and 
programs. Again, let me say that I am pleased to be here. It's always good to 
meet with Indian Folks and, of course, to visit with Navajo and Sioux friends. 

I wish the conference good luck. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Commissioner of Indian Affairs 
U.S. Department of the Interior 

Toward Greater Economic Opportunity for 
American Indians 

Government by consensus requires a beginning point from which consensus can be 
developed. Conferences sometimes serve that purpose. Sometimes they serve y 
camouflage inaction. 

I earnestly hope that this conference on manpower programs for Indians will be 
remembered as an action conference. Rarely if ever before has there been a meeting 
involving so many Indian" tribal leaders and several Federal agencies including the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs to examine the over -all economic station among Amer 
Indians. I am especially pleased that this conference was called by the Department of 
Labor and hosted by my good friend of many years, Mr. Arme bolem. 

It was nearly a year ago that President Johnson, in administering the oath of 
office to me as Commissioner of Indian Affairs, declared that the time as come o 
put the first Americans first on our agenda. " 

The first Americans are the a genda at this conference. I shall do everything in 
my power to see that the agenda remains active, after the speeches are done and the 

reports written. 

I trust that our deliberations here will not merely fire expectations but will lead 
us to practical ways and means of turning hopes into realities . 

The revolution of rising expectations has at last reached the reservation areas . 

We in the Bureau of Indian Affairs see the forces of Indian action beginning to mobilize. 
These forces need bolstering. Indian participation in our national life has often faltered 
inthe past on thequicksand of promises made and broken. As long as Indians remained 
silent in their resentment, they remained forgotten except possibly to the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs. But BIA should not continue to be their first and last resort. 

Moreover, the BIA is limited by law to providing assistance only to Indians under 
Federal trusteeship. Our concern is limited to about 400, 000 Indians, although th 
are p^ob^^haff a^ many again - another 200, 000 - in the United States. Many groups, 
particularly^ the remnant groups scattered throughout the East, are beyond the scope of 

BIA help. 

With all the new Federal legislation that has been enacted in recent years to aid 
underdeveloped areas of this country and to foster community development, the Bureau 
of Indian Affairs is no longer the sole source of funds and technical rcsourcesforlndian 
assistance. Its function should be shifting from one of exclusive responsibility for 
Indians to the role of "finder" and "coordinator of other sources of aid. 

We are not hard put to find other agencies performing services that supplement 
our own But we are hard put to find many other agencies to help consistently and 
substantively in mounting an all-out attack on Indian poverty although in the past five 
years some Federal, State, and local agencies have done more than their share. 

The Manpower Development and Training Act is about fiye years old. The Bureau 
of Employment Security is about thirty-five years old. The problem of unemployment 
among 3 reservation Indians is as old as the reservation system . Tliough producing more 
than a few jobs, none of the job -generating programs have yet succeeded in making 
significant reductions in Indian unemployment statistics . 

About 40 percent of working-age reservation Indians are jobless. In some locali- 
ties, and in some seasons, the numbers out of work may rise to as high as 80 percent. 

Indian communities are generally located in rural depressed areas of the country. 
The lands are remote from the industrial and commercial pulse points of our Nation . 
Opportunities have therefore been limited. But, considering the rapidly changing nat ^ r 
ofour economy during the past quarter century or so, these excuses are no longer wholly 
valid. We have moved away from an agrarian -based economy to an urban-industrial 
economy. This has upset the balance of economy on some of the reservations. But we 
are now moving beyond the urban -industrial economic base to an economy ending 
continually through diversification. A growing number of factors interplay upon our 
economy today. These include, for example: 

. Increased Government services at all levels; 

Expanding service occupations in the private sector; 

A great upsurge in "luxury -oriented" business such as indoor and 
outdoor recreation -- now ranking as an industry unto itself; 

The expansion of education into new front iers of science and technology . 

Not only the activities, but also the new issues of our times offer potential for 
jobs and for regional growth: air pollution and water pollution control; food processing, 
packaging and labeling; safety and sanitation to name but a few . 

All of these job-creating activities should and could occur more widely in the rural 
areas of our country. The highway systems and the airway systems have made rural 
areas accessible -- and, thereby, profitable for development in new ways. 

We cannot divorce the problem of underdevelopment from the problem of unemploy- 
ment. The problem of natural resource development is beyond the scope of this 
conference; but it is a factor we cannot ignore in our deliberations. 

It would, of course, make the work of this conference simpler if we said that the 
simple solution is to move Indians off the reservations. We would then merely concentrate 
on finding jobs for Indians in the already developed employment markets. 

But the Indian people attending this conference do not accept the assumption that 
mass relocation is the only solution. Relocation has merit -- but it isn t alwa y s 1 ® 
answer, nor is it the total answer. People will not abandon their home grounds — as has 


been demonstrated so poignantly in Appalachia -- unless they have already persuaded 
themselvesthat it is a good thing to do. And it is not suggested that the Indian peo pie . be 
forced to relocate -- for that would be a repetition of the forced migrations of the 19th 

Century . 

Letting Indians shift for themselves is no solution, either. Some of the People 
would leave the reservations, to be sure - but where would they go and what could they 
do to help themselves adjust to a strange, new environment? The ones most desperately 
in need of help are the ones least equipped to help themselves. Their background and 
culture are factors which dominate their lives and regulate their destinies. 

Indian tribes are making headway in developing their natural resources to P* ovide 
iobs on the reservations for those who choose to cling to rural life . The Bureau conduct 
an industrial development program geared to bringing private industry to Indian locales 
and about 90 such industries have been established in the past few years. On the job 
training contracts through BIA led to several thousand new jobs. 

Meanwhile, as our education opportunities have broadened, more of the young 
adults with your support, are looking beyond the reservation for their place in the sun. 
Paralleling our reservation development program is our tailor-made vocational traimng 
and employment assistance program. These have eased the poverty pains somewhat. 

Our program involves more than just finding an Indian a job. It is a complete 
package - aptitude testing (through State employment security agenciesicounsehng in 
selecting a training institution; vocational training; full family support during the 
training S period; help in finding housing; counseling with the trainee and family during the 
early months; job placement; and follow-up services. 

Over the years the Bureau of Indian Affairs has learned that for people whose 
cultural backgrounds differ from the average, employment assistance must be highly 
individualized and must provide a large degree of personal attention. 

Since 1958, our adult vocational training program has been providing help to 
Indians to train in every field in which job opportunities exist 0 The first Oongressiona 1 

authorization for this program was $3.5 million. ^11 1965,1 this] have moved 
increased to $15 million to keep pace with the demand. About 5°, 000 wooers have moved 

through our vocational training and job placement program ~ and ’ when y ° u ^ un ^^ eir 
dependents, the nunfcer of Indians receiving aid comes to about 100, 000. Many, if not 
most of them, had been actual or potential welfare cases - a burden to the Government 

and a symbol of human erosion. 

We have placed Indians in jobs ranging from auto mechanics to space technicians . 
We have bakers and barbers, draftsmen and diamond cutters. We have a team of radar 
repair and maintenance men on the Defense Early Warning System line. 

Some relocated Indians give up their jobs and return to unemployment on their 
reservations, because they have been unable to bridge the cultural hurdle of city life. 
Some of these will later try again. Others will become leading forces in their home 
communities, bringing working experience and a measure of ° f 

business know-how to the old environment. We don t count all of the returnees as 
failures. Many are not failures -- they are often among our greatest successes, because 
they breathe a new life and new ideas into static communities . 


But for all we have done, it is not enough. We are reaching only about 10 per- 
cent of the unemployed each year and new young adults continue to join the job-searching 
ranks. There are today more than 55, 000 Indians out of work. We must break the cycle 
of poverty before another decade has passed. With the rate of the population growth 
among Indians -- estimated as double the national average --we are losing ground by the 
year in spite of the fact that we have succeeded in substantially improving the economic 
lot of 25 percent of the Indian population in the past decade. 

Nor is it our goal merely to make transplants, as I said before. Our goal is to 
make job opportunities. Therefore, when we plan ahead for further adult vocational 
training and job assistance, we intend to keep in mind the potentials for development of 
rural Indian areas, as well as the potentials for placing Indians on the assembly lines 
in big cities and the DEW line of the Artie. The dual objective -- on-and-off reservation 
opportunity -- should be the concern of this conference. 

Nearly a year ago, the President directed me to devise "the most comprehensive 
program for the advancement of Indians that the Government of the United States has ever 
considered Sound, realistic, progressive, venturesome, farsighted." 

The Bureau of Indian Affairs has already mounted some programs in education 
and economic development to which these adjectives can justly be applied. 

Now we need a venturesome and farsighted program of job training and employment 
assistance, and I am counting on the Department of Labor to give it fullest support in 
staff effort and funding. 

It isn't going to be cheap. It isn't going to be easy. Procedures and techniques 
that have succeeded among non-Indian populations may not necessarily work well when 
applied to Indian groups . 

The Bureau of Indian Affairs has already begun, but we can't go the whole way 
alone. We are in the midst of some experimental projects now that are more far-reaching 
than anything ever before offered by the Federal Government. We need support for them 
and we believe that, given support, our ventures will carry implications for the problem 
of "unemployability" that plagues several minority groups in this country, among whom 
Indians are only one . 

Let me tell you what we are doing. 

One of our experiments is only a few weeks old. Working with Federal penal 
authorities, we are selecting five parolees from the Sandstone penitentiary in Minnesota 
and upon their release we will provide special counseling, training, if needed, and 
placement services. In the past, Indians with a police record have been avoided by 
employers in their home localities . We hope we can break the cycle of recurring 
arrests -- many of which are due to idleness and the aura of poverty and disgrace which 
entraps the families of Indians who have been in prison. Toward this end, we also 
participated the last week in January in a conference with a joint commission on, correc- 
tional manpower and training. 

I mention the Sandstone experiment first, only because of its timeliness . One of 
the parolees is to be released to us today. 




But the big problem of Indian unemployment does not stem from lawlessness. We 
have hundreds of Indians who are quiet, fearful, undereducated and unsophisticated people 
who keep to themselves. They are the products of a three -generation culture of poverty 
but somehow have not lost their dignity. 

The older Indian and the unskilled Indian clings to his old ways. The land and his 
home -- no matter how humble — serve as his security. He cherishes the remnants of a 
culture that once provided bounty; and it is this pride in heritage that must be fostered 
today. To ignore the cultural ties of the Indian is to destroy his last vestige of pride in 
self. To destroy pride in self is to create a nobody --a man without a spirit. 

Our employment assistance programs -- and I include the opportunities under 
MDTA and EOA — will not succeed with the majority of chronically unemployed Indians 
if we approach the problem on an assembly -line basis. 

If we are merely counting the number processed through an employment assistance 
office, we can point to many thousands. If we count the number who do not return to the 
office, we are possibly deluding ourselves that they are successfully employed. Some of 
them -- many of them -- don’t make a second trip to an office which requires hours of 
cooling the heels on a hard bench; a brief and disinterested interview with an overworked 
placement officer; and the advice to "come back tomorrow." 

Today -- the here and now -- is the Indian's world. It’s not such a bad outlook, 
either, if each today can be made meaningful. 

Work in itself is no challenge to the Indian unless it is work that gives him satis- 
faction -- with his hands or his mind. It is with this approach that our employment 
assistance services to Indians must be conducted, if they are to succeed. 

Recently we received approval for two dramatic new experiments: 

First, the Choctaw Project: This concerns a group of third -generation tenant 
farmers in the Choctaw community near Philadelphia, Mississippi, where only segregated 
public schooling is available in the Mississippi Choctaw community. Some of the 
youngsters in past years were sent to a Federal boarding high school in Oklahoma. Family 
ties are strong and the Choctaw youngsters did not stick to schooling away from home . 
Moreover, the children were needed in the fields . 

We now operate a day school in the local community for both elementary and 
secordary students. A few months ago, the Bureau began moving some of the hardest- 
pressed families into new housing -- some of it mobile housing — on public land in the 
area. Under a contract with RCA Service Corporation, we are attacking illiteracy and 
lack of job training through the "total -family approach." We are now working with 154 
people. The average age of the head of family is 28. The average educational level of 
the head of family is 1 . 6 years . With concentrated pre -vocational preparation, family 
counseling in family living, close attention to the needs of the children, an occupational 
training program for adults, and a placement service and follow-up -- with these elements 
as part of the total package, we hope to prove that the label "unemployable" can be 
obliterated. We have 10 trailers and 20 houses available; and we have more applicants 
than we can handle. I hope that hope will not wither because we cannot reach wider at 
this time. 


With the Choctaw experiment barely underway, we are now planning for an even 
more dramatic "family -focused" training program for hard-core poverty families from 
all parts of the Indian country . This training program is planned to meet the needs and 
wishes of many Indian people . 

This second project we call MERGE. The initials stand for Madera Educational 
Residential Group Experience . 

The site is to be the former Madera Air Force Base, which the Bureau acquired 
last June as surplus property. Philco -Ford's Tech -Rep Division is our contractor. By 
April 1, we will have 30 families in training -- 30 who are typical of the rural hard-core 
unemployed group . They will live in a community setting; their children will be bussed 
to public schools; working -age adults in the family will be provided pre -vocational and 
job training; families will be guided in the routine of urban living -- housekeeping, food 
purchasing, money management; budgeting; community relations; and community programs 
of recreation and learning will be shared. 

Although developed and financed by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, teachers, 
counselors, and all other service positions will be filled by Philco -Ford personnel. The 
cost of the project will run about $1.7 million per year, when in full swing; and we 
expect to process more than 2, 000 people during a projected 5-1/2 year period. Train- 
ing will probably average 9 months to a year. Placement and follow-up services will 
be arranged by Philco -Ford. We expect that some of the trainees will want to return to 
their home locales for employment making use of their new-found skills. They should 
be self-supporting, participating citizens of their community and help to provide 
leadership at home . 

The importance of pre -vocational training -- including guidance in community 
living — cannot be overemphasized. I believe the case for this approach has been amply 
proven in the results we have obtained through the Seattle program . This has been funded 
under the Manpower Development and Training Act. We are now working with the fourth 
group of about 50 trainees. Everyone of the trainees who completed the pre -vocational 
program was either placed in a vocational training follow-up or went directly to a job 
either in an urban area or close to home . 

There are still some other experiments I'd like to point to: We are operating 
what we call the "large-family pilot program . " Large families are usually the poorest; 
and deficiencies in education and training are frequently found in such families. With 
an initial group of ten large families, we have made selective placements in stable 
industries, where flash layoffs are unlikely. The wage scale for entrance is in all cases 
commensurate with minimum standards; but the minimum wage is insufficient to support 
a large family, so the Bureau is providing a subsidy. The subsidy continues on a diminish- 
ing basis as the wages rise with experie nee and tenure -- but the subsidy is not reduced by 
the entire amount of the wage increase until the wage increases attain a level whereby 
family subsistence at a decent level can be maintained. 

This is a costly project, as are all of our experiments. But it had been costing 
us many times more to maintain those same large families on the reservation, where no 
income was coming in. 

The large -family program will hopefully be stepped up soon to include 250 families 
from various parts of the country. 

Tzrrz r. 


The philosophy behind the large-family experiment also applies to our housing 
purchase experiment. For persons who have demonstrated stability on the job for 
several months, we plan to provide non-reimbursable grants for down payments toward 
purchasing a home. We are planning a budget of a half million dollars for such grants, 
which will average about $1, 000 per family . We are also offering a family planning 
program for population control . 

In addition to these tailor-made programs for Indians who cannot make it alone by 
the bootstrap method, the Bureau of Indian Affairs also has a policy of Indian preference 
in its own hiring, and we encourage Indian preference among our contractors . These 
are not make -work jobs -- they are existing and needed jobs. Make -work programs, 
however, are a legitimate method of reducing joblessness. 

Before we look to make -work projects for Indians, we need to look more 
thoroughly at the existing job market . Over the long reach, we should be aiming at 
permanent job placements in stable occupations. Generally speaking, the most 
substantial firms needing workers -- for example, the defense contractors -- have 
pretty good jobs to offer. And as they look to the Employment Security offices for their 
help, it is hoped that a reservoir of demand for Indian workers — who are proven highly 
skilled in technical occupations — would open up. 

I'm not aiming merely for a high percentage of employment - - but for a better 
life for T ndiflTi people through satisfying employment. Employment is more than having 
a job. It is having a purpose . 

We solve the problem of Indian unemployment not only by techniques for processing 
job applicants, but also by attention to the needs of the human spirit. 

Excerpted From: 




Chairman Cato Valandra 

President, United Sioux Tribes; 
President, Rosebud Sioux Tribal Council 
Rosebud, South Dakota 

Recorder Fred 

Other Participants 

Percy Archambeau 

Frank Ducheneaux 

Adrian Foote 

Alfred W. Gilpin 
Jim Hamilton 

Lewis B. Holt 

Gordon E. Kirto 

Dwaine M . LeBeau 

William R. Omen 

Ashley Rave 

Feather stone, Jr. 

Employment Service Advisor, USES 
Bureau of Employment Security, Region VII 
Kansas City, Missouri 

Tribal Chairman 

Yankton Sioux Tribal Council 

Wagner, South Dakota 


Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe 
Eagle Butte, South Dakota 

Vice Chairman, Tribal Council 
Ft . Berthold, Newtown, North Dakota 
Raub, North Dakota 

Chairman, Omaha Tribe of Nebraska 
Macy, Nebraska 

Assistant Director 

Community Action Program, Omaha Tribe 
Macy, Nebraska 

Special Representative 
Department of Employment 
Boise, Idaho 

Treasurer, Santee Sioux Tribe 
c/o Winnebago Indian Agency 
Winnebago, Nebraska 

Director, C. A. P. 

Rosebud Sioux Tribe 
Rosebud, South Dakota 

Council Representative 
Red Lake Band, Tribal Council 
Red Lake, Minnesota 

Representative, Winnebago Tribe 



CHAIRMAN: The purpose of this first panel is to discuss employment needs 
and problems of the American Indian. The purpose will include informing tribal 
leaders of total resources available from the various agencies attending this meeting. 
Also, the agencies want to hear from the Indians the problems and effects of Indian 
unemployment and to express an awareness for need of cooperative effort by all 
governmental agencies. 

KITTO: I came to this meeting thinking about the labor situation . They send 
Indians off to various States, but they generally come back in about two or three months. 
Some people say that if you sent a Santee to the moon, he would return. I'm here to 
find out if it’s possible to get an industry on our reservation, giving our Indians work 
to earn money . Our living standards would come up which would benefit our people 
and our county . Is there a way of getting you officials to contact the Santee Sioux tribe 
of Nebraska and survey the labor force we have there? Maybe we could have an 
industry . 

Years ago, we wanted to start one by borrowing money. They said we were 
Indians and we couldn’t borrow money. There was discrimination against the Indian. 
That's why it’s hard for us to get ahead in this world. Even at home, Indians can't 
borrow money, any amount of money! 

Can this conference do something for us? Thank you very much. 

CHAIRMAN: One point we might talk about is the Nelson Amendment Projects 
on your reservations. It appears the Labor Department will administer this Nelson 
Amendment. If they are, when will they set out criteria so we'll know whether we 
qualify or not? Are they going to set up an Indian desk in the Labor Department so 
Indians can go to one particular place to get their problems ironed out? We all know 
the problems in fighting a big, faceless society and it will probably be the same with 
the Labor Department when Indians start dealing with them . Is there anyone here from 
the Labor Department who might enlighten us? 


HAMILTON: I am representing the Omaha tribe . I have been working with the 

Community Action Program of Thurston County, Nebraska. I go along with Mr. Kitto. 

In Knox County they had a difficult time trying to obtain monies for an employment program . 

The Nelson Amendment — we have approximately 56 men working on the 
reservation and we have the same problem . That's the reason I'm here hoping to see 
Mr . Dean Tyler about getting something documented or getting our program extended 
under the Nelson Amendment. Our training on the reservation hasn't amounted to any- 
thing. Forty men just chopped wood and that was the only project we had. It doesn't 
require much sense to chop wood. You don't need any training. 

Nevertheless, we were fortunate to get $65,000 in Federal aid to operate for six 
months. The program will cease February 28 and that's why I'm here. 

There is great need on the reservation because the Omahas come under State 
jurisdiction under Public Law 280. I'm not well acquainted with South Dakota proceedings 
on getting projects. The Winnebagos, Omahas and Santee Sioux have really been 
destitute. This 10 percent contribution doesn't sound like much, but when you deal with 
$190, 000, it's quite a sum and a sum the Indians just haven't got. We've been failing in 
our in-kind contribution. I don't know how many tribes are here or whether they have 
this program, but this has been one of our sticklers . 

I was hoping that meeting here with Bureau people, a lot of idle facilities and 
material things could help us develop the reservation. At Big Elk Park, which I manage, 
we've struggled with this problem for months. We've been staging ceremonial dances 
but we've never been able to complete this park because of lack of facilities that would 
draw people. The Corps of Engineers through Governor Morrison completed a $30, 000 
boat dock. This is real good. It will bring income, but we need more than that. 

It seems we bog down in red tape on this Nelson Amendment. It is difficult for 
Indians to understand the constant changes. 



Tomorrow, Dean Tyler will be in Lincoln, Nebraska. I don't know if he's to 
attend this meeting, but I'm hoping we can contact him, pin him down about information 
and maybe draw up a program . 

In Thurston County we work with the Indian and the non -Indian. The non -Indian 
has facilities. He's ready to get this type of project but the Indian doesn't have them and 
this is what I'm concerned about. 

RAVE: Our needs are identical to Mr. Hamilton's. His problems are just as 

well said for the Winnebago s. 

CHAIRMAN: I'm learning that the Labor Department has as much red tape as any 

other Federal agency. 

HAMILTON: Yes, certainly, but this material changes so fast! Take the 

Nebraska reservation Indian. A good many of them haven't even visited an employment 
agency so there's no record of them . We're hoping they might be recorded by the State 
Labor Department because our reservation is isolated. 

Whether any of you know it and I'm not afraid to say it, there's a barrier between 
Indian and non -Indian and there's no understanding. It seems to me they don't want to 
understand and this makes our work very, very difficult. We organized last September 
and they still don't know the Thurston County Community Action Council exists! They're 
afraid of red tape and of getting bogged down with paper work which a lot of them aren't 
qualified to do anyway! This is the barrier. How will we work this out? 

FOOTE: We ran up against the same problems. What's wrong with our Indian 
desk? Couldn't they handle, say, Title V under OEO? We're situated in five counties and 
it's handled by Welfare. We can't get them to do anything! They always say they're 
understaffed. What's wrong with the Indian desk? Indians know the problems. Some work 
there. I don't see why we have all this red tape. These programs are geared to help 
people in poverty and, by golly, they better change regulations so some tribes can benefit 
by these programs. 


KITTO: If this Nelson Amendment can allow appropriations direct to the tribal 
treasury with the tribe handling their own business, I think they can do better than a 
man sitting in Washington who doesn't know a thing about Indians. Too much red tape 
doesn't go with Indians. 

HAMILTON: I became aware of this problem. You get an administrator to 

handle this Nelson Amendment and you get the money. Now comes bookkeeping. I 
don't know what you have, but some require accounting for every bit of money. This 
money requires good business management. Do you have it? 

KITTO: You bet! We answered that, easy! 

LE BEAU: I would like to pursue one point you mentioned -- facilities. In any 

works program this has been the number one lack . The second thing is lack of 
materials to get the job done properly. This may not only be shovels, it may be a 
number of things . 

Another area involves considering the people you're working with. You might 
have a project such as we do, where the average age is 47 and the average grade level 
is 7th. You must be realistic in training. When you have such average age and grade, 
what can you do? Public Works may be the answer, as many feel. 

Third, the project must be economically feasible. It must be directed towards 
economic development . Have a works project with jobs they can use in the future . 

Fourth, is involvement. When they work up guidelines for any program, I think 
we must be involved so the guidelines will suit our area . 

Another thing, too, is exception. There have been exceptions in many of the 
programs, so they would fit one reservation. 

CHAIRMAN: Anyone here from the Labor Department? Is there any other area 

or reservation that wants to speak on Nelson Amendment? 


ARCHAMBEAU: Our situation is a little different. I belong to a cooperative 
we formed, a CAP in Charles Mix County. Now, we are eight counties. We have 
our Nelson Amendment projects approved for next year, and we have our money 
allocation, but this is beside the point. The point, here, is that we must have this 
type of project until industry can come to our reservations. We shouldn't sit here 
and think of only one year. When we're discussing needs with our people we must 
figure on the long-term. Until industry arrives, we must have some kind of 
program . The Labor Department, CAP and OEO must work together on it. 

I'm on the board. We have a delegate agency under our CAP for Indians on 
the reservation and we're seeking a coordinator to work through the Indian desk. 

We received special attention, I think, on this issue. I don't think our 
people should worry . To create employment, the government must come in with 
some program . 

Relocation is all right for some . Some have been successful. But there are 
chronically poor people you must train for better income. The thing people must have 
is initiative. You must teach this at home. 

On the Yankton reservation we're trying to get an electronics plant to be 
handled by the Episcopal Church. There's a corporation set-up to develop 50 jobs, 
but we must have help to get contracts. Other reservations have contracts. This is 
the only way we can solve our problem. Get industry to come to us where our 
chronically poor people are . 

In the meantime, we must have programs to keep people working and accustomed 
to a weekly check. Many will fail, but keep the programs and you will get results. This 

is the way I look at the whole picture. I noticed my people . You must train them. We 
have Title V. We have 35 trainees at Lake Andes or Wagner, South Dakota, at the Indian 
Hospital, the lumberyard, and some business places under Title V. They are working 
now and in training. Title V is for our people under 35. This is the type of thing you 
must have and you must do. 

In our CAP, I'm working with white people. Sure, I could tell you about than, but 
I stay right in there and stand my ground. You can argue these things, but there are 
some good white people, too, who will do something. They are not all "that way." You 
can find good people who will do everything they can for Indians. I found it so. In our 
CAP, some white people run projects . Lots of our Indians would rather have white 
people than their own Indians as foremen . This is the way it goes . 

Gentlemen, this discrimination is a half-and-half thing. You must "get in there 
yourself ! You must gain respect. 

HOLT: Let’s face it; one of the greatest problems we should consider here is 

our educational phase, upgrading skills so we can compete in the industrial world. If 
we can, we should take advantage of the many Federal programs, such as Manpower 
Development Training and others. We can use Community Action Programs to great 
advantage, for example, in surveys. I recall a program in one community where, 
after a survey, they coordinated Federal agencies as well as County to review findings 
of this survey so people from poverty-stricken areas would not be caught in a vacuum. 
We are guilty of such red tape. It may be a deterrent to progress, but this gives us a 
chance to examine various agencies programs and make recommendations; programming 
our resources accordingly. This we're now doing. 

Our third agencies meeting was just a month ago . We asked how much money 
do you have and they told us . We asked MDTA the same question and everybody got on 
the bandwagon . If one department can't help, another agency can. Perhaps there is a 
lack of coordination between some departments. It would benefit us if they'd get 
together . 

With regard to the Nelson Amendment, I know of a reservation that is still 
waiting for an OK from Washington. Apparently it isn't just one area that's affected. I 
suggest in using any Community Action Program we design it to upgrade skills and 
develop resources. 

DUCHENEAUX: We're getting into the same routine as at all our conferences. 

We're complaining about the little things that happen. I was in hopes this conference 
would be bigger than that and that we'd have a forward looking program. We're all for 
these OEO programs. They do a wonderful job in teaching semi-skills and skills so 
we can get jobs . But we need something besides OEO, because OEO prepares you in 
different categories. What we're actually looking for is job opportunities, for jobs to be 
available after we complete training, for jobs such as developing natural resources on 
the reservation and for jobs created by bringing industry in and relocation to job sites. 

Relocation under BIA, I think, has been partially successful . But Indians should 
be moved in groups, rather than singles or single families because Indians are used to 
working with their kind. They get lonesome, and the first thing you know, they're back. 
If you move them in groups or in colonies and establish them where industries are, I 
think they're more apt to stay. 

GILPIN: The proper approach is to be more objective about what we really want 
from this conference, what we should try to get from the Department of Labor or any 

agency . 


I know of one consistent point in the minds of our tribal leaders -- the social - 
economic problems on our reservation. Certainly we need industrial development. 
Industrial development could help our people take their place in society . If we can 
create employment through industrial development, we should be getting "with it" and 
talking to departments involved, so we can go home and say we requested help and 
efforts are being made. How much effort is being put forth by responsible agencies to 
see if industries can be located on reservations? 

We've talked about the Nelson Amendment and we’ve talked about labor. I would 
hope at least 10 people would be employed under the Nelson Amendment even if they were 
just chopping wood. 

There is routine in this. They go to work at 8 and come in at 4:30. They have a 
half-hour for lunch. The point is that it wasn't a waste of time or talent. The Indian 
in this situation is learning he must be dependable. He must know he has a steady job 
as long as the project lasts. He will have learned he must be on the job everyday. This 
is development; developing the human element. We're in a rut because we lack skills 
and education . 

I'm off onto tangents here, but all this involves Indians. The Bureau has educa- 
tional programs even though they're limited. We should develop our people 
so if we obtain industry for the reservation, we have people developed for steady work. 
They'll learn dependability and be reliable. 

One other point relates to OEO programs. Last July, we set up our budget. The 
slip we made was not allowing enough for in-kind contribution. It has really hurt my 
budget. Ten percent sounds like a small contribution by the Indian, but it amounts to a 
lot of money. If we figured in the supervisors from my tribe, the vehicles we furnish 
the gas and all that as our in-kind contribution, then OK! But we can't use that money 
elsewhere, because we must make our in-kind contribution, too. We're hurting on this. 


The point is can this in-kind contribution be knocked out? If so, we could then use the 
money elsewhere. We must lift the red tape on education programs. These things 

really hold us in poverty . 

A man, 18 to 35 I believe it is, when able and competent, is to look for a job. 

But what about the unskilled and those not in that age bracket? What to do with these 
people? There's an element left out, who must live, too. 

The age limits in education should be lifted to help people who want further 
education. Can this ten percent contribution be knocked out? Then, can we lift age 
limits on BIA educational programs? It should be more flexible so a person who is maybe 

47-48 years old could yet learn a trade. 

HOLT: Perhaps it would be wise for us to think about prevocational training 

programs so there might be continuity to our upgrading. Not long ago, I met with 
Bureau of Apprenticeship about qualifications for BAT programs. They told us we must 
have at least a high school diploma or its equivalent. This ruled out a majority of our 
people especially from poverty-stricken areas. They also had to be 20 to 30 years old, 

1 believe . 

Due to testing services we have, we're often unable to qualify for Manpower 
Development Training. Some of these areas could be redesigned sd more people would 

be able to take training programs . It's something to think about. 

CHAIRMAN: You're saying that situations on the reservations are unique. They 
aren't the same as in a non -Indian community . You're talking about a high school 
diploma being pre-requisite for some MDTA training. A lot of Indians do not have high 

school diplomas. 

HOLT: I had reference to Bureau of Apprenticeship. MDTA is quite flexible, 
but Bureau of Apprenticeship isn’t. 

CHAIRMAN: You are saying they should design their criteria to fit the 




HOLT: And training programs also . It involves testing -- the works. 

OMEN: I have a question in regard to tight money. We had some hard luck with 

our sawmill. We had a new one just operating in the black and it burned. Now, we ve 
completed another new one. We're asking the Government to subsidize lossess in 
operating costs of the burned mill because the new one will take time to get out of the 
red and into the black. 

I was thinking of Mr. Ducheneaux's words about looking into the future. It s very 
hard for our tribe to do because although OEO is operating on our reservation, we 
figure it's more or less temporary to ease us along • 

Now, a company is to build a furniture factory and has come to the last step. 

They need $800, 000 for operating expenses which they thought they could easily 
acquire. But this tight money came up. They've had trouble and our tribal council 
decided to borrow money to loan to the company. We tried the BIA loan fund and found 
it practically depleted. So the company is still trying. They think they've made it. 

What support would we get if this money doesn't materialize for operational 
expenses? This is the last step for this factory before they would start breaking ground. 

Would any industry have possibilities for a reservation during this tight money 
period? How can they acquire money? Who will they go to and what support can they 
expect? We want to know because it's the last phase of this operation and we're ready 
to break ground. This tight money makes it pretty hard and we're worried about this. 
They may get this money, but we're afraid they won't and where would we go from there. 

CHAIRMAN: You have an opportunity, an industry, and there's no avenue for 

funds to get this industry in operation? 

OMEN: Not for operational expense. 

CHAIRMAN: Then we're talking about something Mr. Cassell talked about this 

morning, awareness of the need for cooperative effort by all agencies . Here is an 
opportunity for a reservation to get industry but they are stymied because they lack 
money to get it going. 


Excerpted From: 






Other Participants 

James M . Cox 

Tom Goslin 

Harry J. W. Belvin 

Principal Chief, Choctaw Nation 
Durant, Oklahoma 

Neal B. Hadsell 

Regional Director, USES 
Denver, Colorado 

Tribal Representative 

Comanche Indian Tribe of Oklahoma 

Midwest City, Oklahoma 

Kickapoo Tribe 
Mercier, Kansas 

Earl Grover 

Representative, Cherokee Tribe 

George W. Harris 
Mrs. Mabel Harris 



| Morris Leonard 


| August Little Soldier 

? W. D. McIntosh 


t Lee Motah 

Samuel Osborne 
Earl Boyd Pierce 
Henry W. Scott 

Councilman, Sac & Fox Tribe 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

Social Worker, OEO Indian Programs 
Sac & Fox of Oklahoma 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

State Director 

Oklahoma State Employment Service 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

Chairman, Three Affiliated Tribes 
New Town, North Dakota 

Principal Chief, Creek Nation 
Tulsa, Oklahoma 

Tribal Councilman, Comanche Tribe 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

Chairman, Pawnee Tribal Business Council 
Pawnee, Oklahoma 

Cherokee Nation 
Muskogee, Oklahoma 

Vice Chairman 

Sac & Fox Tribe of Oklahoma 

Cushing, Oklahoma 

Excerpted From: 

PANEL NO. 1-B (Continued) 


Other Participants 

Alvin E. Smith 

Vice Chief of Eastern Band of Cherokees 
Cherokee, North Carolina 

Crosslin Smith 

Tribal Resource Officer 
Cherokee Tribe 
Tahlequah, Oklahoma 

George S. Sunday 

Chesapeake and Potomac Telephone Company 
Plans for Progress 
Washington, D. C. 

Lewis L. Zadoka 


Wichita Indian Tribe of Oklahoma 
Anadarko, Oklahoma 



CHAIRMAN: I'm glad to see a good representation of Indians from all over the country 

who are interested in Indian employment and Indian affairs in general, because many things 
will be brought to our attention. We'll try to bring to the attention of officials in charge 
things that might help with the many, many problems you have. 

I agree with some things I’ve already heard. One of the greatest problems is Indian 
unemployment. One of the great tilings in this world is happiness. When we seek happiness 
we often find it through employment because an unemployed man is unhappy. Ultimately, 
it comes to that very point. If we don't have a way to care for ourselves through a job of 
some description with income, we're not happy. We can't be fully participating citizens 
of this country without a job. 

I once worked under a full-blooded Indian in an Indian boarding school -orphanage. 

We had chapel frequently . This Indian talked so long and repeated himself so often that 
I got tired of hearing him. But there was one thing he impressed upon me. 

He said, "You Indian people, you Indian boys and girls, must qualify yourselves to 
meet competition in this world. You must assume the appropriate attitude. You must 
get rid of some old prejudices. You must learn to walk by your white brother and deal 
with him. You must learn that because you're an Indian, you must do the job better than 
he does or he will get your job." 

That was a large assignment. I say, sometimes jokingly, "I've been an Indian all 
my 66 years and l think I know something about Indian attitudes even though I don't under- 
stand them as well as a full-blood, like my father. He taught me in my childhood the same 
thing this superintendent taught me that I must learn to compete. I must learn to be just 
as good as the other fellow or better or see him get my job. That attitude prevailed in 

territory days. 


And so, my friends, the government is now taking a good look at Indian affairs 
and Indians are at a crossroad. We have reached a point where we have a voice in 
things that happen to us. I'm proud that not only government and its agencies, but other 
agencies, private business and industry are helping Indians find themselves and helping 
alleviate some of the suffering we know so well. 

An Indian can be a fine workman. One thing my Indian father taught me, which I 
am proud of and will never forget, is that the Indian has the same intelligence as the 
non -Indian. He needs only to cultivate it. 

With these few remarks I want to inspire you, if I can, to be Indian, to be 
American, and to get rid of prejudices and skepticisms, because we're capable of 
selecting good from evil. We're able to make our own decisions. I want to impress 
upon you that we assume the proper attitude . Teach us truth and truth will make us free . 

If we know that, can't we then assume the proper attitude? I don't want to sermonize, so 

let's go into our program. 

PIERCE: I'm taking the liberty of presenting a gentleman I just met on the floor 
of the convention. Mr. George Sunday represents Chesapeake and Potomac Telephone 
Company at Washington, D.C. He's been loaned to a great organization of business 
people in this Nation called the Plans for Progress Program. It's a voluntary, cooperative 
effort to help groups such as Indians. Practically every large corporation in the Nation 

is sponsoring it. 

SUNDAY: I agree with Chief Belvin that regardless of manpower programs 
developed, if an individual doesn't have the attitude to compliment the program, the pro- 
gram won't work. Regardless of what a man is, or who he is, some day he meet 
something he doesn't like. But if he's big enough to stand up and be counted, he will get 

to the top . 

F!iauiiujju» s» l >ig , .M>iajj-gxr.: , .Lu.iw. 


McINTOSH: We have stressed the fact Indians need employment and apparently the 

individual Indian must leave his abode and move into industrial cities to secure employ 
ment. We have argued all along with the powers that be that they should see that industry 
is decentralized and moved to various sections of the Indian labor force. It can be done 


Here's an example. The Shawnee Indian tribe has the finest setup in the world. They 
have fabulous buildings, own the grounds and have all the improvements. Yet they re 
begging industry to establish a plant. They have no labor troubles. They have a labor 
force, buildings, sunshine 360 days of the year and an average temperature of about 72°. 

PIERCE: I agree with the comments and suggestions of the noble Chief of the Creeks. 

I'm from Cherokee country. I've been their attorney since '38 or '39. Other Cherokees 
here, I think, will agree that what we need in Eastern Oklahoma is about 6 or 7 small 
plants employing from 50 to 200 people. We have 11, 000 people unemployed, 40 to 50 

percent illiterate heads of families who haven't had employment for months. 

The Cherokees are not unlike members of the several tribes represented here. They 

live where graves of their ancestors surround them and they have no urge to leave. We 

have a serious problem . We feel if we had five or six plants to offer employment the 
poverty problem among the Cherokees would be solved quickly . 

C, SMITH: I wholeheartedly support the statements of Mr. McIntosh and Mr. Pierce 

I would add that before bringing industries, we need extensive work in various remedial 
education areas . It may be math or it may be English. Extensive training programs are 
needed for the Indian. I’ll try putting Cherokees into three groups! The school dropout 
population within the Cherokee Nation will need remedial work and a training program, 
for whatever industry might be brought to the Cherokee. 



Secondly is the uneducated Cherokee of 21 to about 37, the Indian who didn’t have 
opportunity to go to school. He’s not a dropout. He just hasn’t had the chance. 

Third, we have a group about 37 to 47. They will also need training if they’re to be 
considered for industrial employment. 

If we can possibly eliminate some of the research costs and find, instead, the right 
people to work with Indians in counseling and training, we can give a target date on which 
we’ll take care of our Indians. 

SUNDAY: Bringing industry to the reservation is the perfect solution, but it may be 

awhile before this happens and something must be done in the meantime . Find a way to 
get your most talented and gifted young people in training so they can travel to job sites 
and not have to move off reservations. If they return, after a day’s work or even periodi- 
cally, they'll serve as living symbols to others. 

Gentlemen, you are living symbols to your people and they look up to you. They look 
up to employed people as living symbols they will strive to imitate, and this is what you need - - 

GROVER: I say this in behalf of Cherokees. We are proud people. We need help 

and Mr. Smith states a fact. All we need is a little push. We need vocational schools 
similar tp Okmulgee, Oklahoma. That's all we need. The tribe is doing its best to help 
the people be independent. 

We're doing our best, but we must have a little help from somewhere. We have some 
funds through Mr. Pierce's efforts but we must have a little push. We have manpower. 

We need education! 

CHAIRMAN: I don't know exactly how many tribes are represented, but we want you 

all to understand there’s no one tribe trying to take control. Some are just more aggressive. 

u * k 'U . M W ' I 


I want everyone here to have an opportunity. I don't know if any reservation Indians are 
in this group but we would like to hear from you . 

1 want to make this remark. I have heard, very often, that many Indian programs 
emanating from Washington are reservation centered and that there's more emphasis 
placed on reservations and reservation Indians than on those who are, we might say, 
assimilated into society. Now, we have two or three divisions of Indian people, and we're 
not confining these discussions to any one group. We want you to understand that. 

A. SMITH: One of our problems, I think, goes back to educational aspects of the 

whole thing. 

We have on our reservation three factories that help tribe employment plus a number 
of private investor recreation programs. However our school system is very poor. We 
don't think our youngsters are getting the quality education they deserve so they can leave 
the reservation or take top jobs in the factories we have. 

We have a problem in certain age brackets from 35 on up , but I think our main con- 
cern is that none of our local Indians are qualified for top positions in these factories. 

We need more manpower programs and vocational education in our schools. If we can 
solve our education problems, we can solve our poverty problems, but it will take time. 
Our feeling is that poverty r esults from lack of education. 

MOT AH: I want to listen so I can take something back to my people. I once heard 

this: "Cradle to the tomb" training program. We've passed the tomb, I believe. I 
haven't seen it yet, but they say we have a program in Oklahoma City. Counselors or 
those who recruit trainees should not be partial. We Indian people are bad about being 
partial. Whenever we get leadership, we often pull in our uncles, nephews and everybody. 
A family that's destitute needs help, and we overlook them. We walk right over them. 


The counselor is a very important individual in this program we're trying to submit to 
our people . 

I kind of feel this way in my heart. I'm an Indian, Jimmy; you know, I get kind of 

CHAIRMAN: Indianized. 

MOTAH: Yes, Indianized. You said something about programs being reservation 

centered. Now, we're Indians too, but we don't live on a reservation. I think we're in 
the same category as people on the reservation, but maybe we're in worse shape than re- 
servation Indians. 

Those Indians moving into towns rattier than living off our people on the reservation 
have tribe income and land, and they live off it. But, we try to go into town and we're 
penalized. When we go to the big cities and try to get services, we're penalized on hospi- 
talization or medical attention. In Oklahoma County, I am not Indian! I can't go to the 
hospital or use any facility for Indians. It might sound comical to you fellows but it's a 
problem in Oklahoma City, and fellows, I don't know how to solve it. 

I wish we had somebody who could set up this job training program. I wish they'd get 
somebody who would look at everyone on the same level so this program could be available 
to all Indians regardless of whether they were rich or poor. We need help in our area. 

CHAIRMAN: When you leave the service unit area, as far as hospitalization and 

medical facilities are concerned, you're no longer an Indian. That's been true, but just 
recently, they changed that program and they’re to accept people from outside the service 
unit area for medical service and hospitalization. 

We fought that thing for years and years and haven't quit punching. I think we're 
solving the problem. Lee is right when he says we're penalized in the metropolitan areas 
because there we become assimilated. 


A Creek lady once came to me complaining about things. She seemed to resent that 
white people and Indians hadn't yet agreed on everything. I said, "Just a minute lady, the 
white man is accepting the Indian more every day. " She said, "Don't say that. It's not 
a matter of the white man accepting the Indian; it's a matter of the Indian accepting the 
white man!" That put a new light on it. 

Lee, you hit it on the head when you said we shouldn't be too Indianized. We have 
felt in the past there was discrimination, but this country offers opportunity and we need 
to prepare ourselves for it. 

SCOTT; I work for the Opportunities of Industrialization Center in Oklahoma City, 
an adult education program. My chief said, "You go to the conference as a full-blooded 
Indian. They have many good talks by educated people. Many times, the Great White 
Father makes a rule for Indians that we don't know about. Our Great White Father is 
offering something to the poor Indian people." And then he said, "He is going to do some- 
thing for you. You go up there." So I'm here and, like I heard an old Indian say, "Lots 
of clouds, maybe this time, sure enough, it is going to rain." (Applause) 

Let's look at it that way. An old Indian sits back and says, "They said this or they 
told us that." The Indian has pride. He's not going to say, "Yeah, white man, I believe 
you; I take your word," No, he's going to look into it. My Chief said, "Mr. Henry Scott, 
look out for our children. You're supposed to be a smart man, so let's look out for 
American Indians." 

It takes much philosophy to get to poor people in the mountains and woods. We'd 
better get a good philosophy and say, "People, this is the way." People will believe and 
our program will go. 

We need education. My people are a minority, we know that. We want inspiration for 
our Indian tribe so they can make a success of this life. 


£ 11 «Hc That’s what they tell us to do. When I see a friend, 

I'm helping people of all creeds. That s wnat tney 

r ”Woiin how do you do?" That s the kind of 
I say, "Hello". To the colored man I say, Hello, y 

. • , t ri'onc Thev have pride in themselves. They say that our 

inspiration you need with Indians . They have prio 

Great White Father has put an Indian in the BIA and maybe that Indian is going to think 
about Indians and maybe we will get help. He will be an inspiration to the Great White 

Father, Mr. President. (Applause) 

CHAIRMAN: 1 appreciate what you said, because you represent another segment o£ 

• , r „„„'r Rvnress myself as the full blood does and he can't express 
the Indian society. I can t express my&u! 

himself as 1 do, but we can understand each other. 

Did I gather you were recommending that someone go among the people, even in the 

recruiting program, on their level and. talk their language? 

SCOTT: Yes. I heard they'll hive an office in Oklahoma City or Tulsa. They're 

going to hire Indians from Anadarko, but they don't have training and must learn how to 


SUNDAY: You bring up a point which reinforces what I was saying. The only way 

you can make people believe things are changing is to have them see changes. Some places 
use film and some use living proof. But there's been too much talk and they don t believe 

anymore unless they see. 

n*ivin I’m clad to be here to see you and all 
HARRIS: Hike these speeches. Mr. Belvin, g 

the Indians from different reservations and tribes. The educational need is my problem 
because you can't do anything unless you have schooling. This is the only time I've ever 
had die privilege of coming to a gathering of this sort in my life. X was appointed by the 
Chairman of the Sac and Fox tribe of Oklahoma to come here and take in what I could on 
manpower. It is a good thing we meet this way and I believe it's going to continue. 



CHAIRMAN: Last October and November we had a leadership conference. We 

recommended many things that we understood would go into an omnibus bill and they were 
to try getting it through Congress . A bill had already been written when that conference 
took place. They called the chairmen of each conference into Washington a few days ago 
to go over the o mnib us bill. I understand, however, Indian people are recommending 
almost total scuttling of that bill. 

A letter was written to the President of the United States. I want to read just one para 
graph from that letter which is very significant and voices what many of us Indians feel. 

"For other citizens government exists to serve them as a matter of right and not a 
favor. It is time that government consistently recognized that it is our servant and not 

our master. " 

"Many of our difficulties today, we feel, lie in the unresponsiveness of public officials 
to our social and economic needs, despite the fact that adequate legislation exists to further 
Indian progress in many fields." 

,,r Th e last major, progressive policy and legislation was adopted in 1934, 33 years ago. 
Today, we need revision and updating of that policy . That policy saved our lands, insured 
our rights of limited self-government and opened the door to financial credit for Indians." 

This is along the line of thinking we are pursuing today. 

LEONARD: As you know, Jimmy, we haven't been able to do as much for the Indians 

in Oklahoma as we should. We’ve tried. We've done something, and I think there's hope 
for more. Bureau tendency is to force everything into the largest towns including our 
staff and all facilities. But I think there's hope the; nay recognize that Indians do not 

live in large cities . 


You had about the first MOIC project in the country. If we can get our Washington 
office to recognize that Oklahoma City and Tulsa are not where the Indians live, we might 

make progress. 

PIERCE: Mr. Chairman, I didn't know Mr. Leonard was here and I apologize to him. 

That gentleman has tremendously helped the Cherokees through his sympathy, expertness 
and contacts with other fields of government. By cooperating with the Bureau, there has 
been established in Delaware County, Oklahoma, for the Cherokees, a heavy equipment 
training school under Manpower Training. I'm told the big contractors are watching the 
school. They need trained Cherokees from the school. A similar school can be started 
quickly in every tribal group in Oklahoma. Mr. Leonard is a great public servant and a 

great citizen. 

MRS. HARRIS: I'm not here as a delegate for an organization or tribe. I came with 

a feeling for Indian people because I work predominantly with Indians. I'm a social worker. 
We’re funded by the Office of Economic Opportunity so I come in contact with Indians. 

I go into their homes and I visit them. They are very poor. They are my people. This 
is not peculiar to one tribe. I work with urban Indians and among Indians living in the 


The problem is deep and makes you want to help. In this you must have people who will 
work with Indians and not be afraid to sit with them. It will take an Indian to work with an 


A VOICE: You said it! 

MRS. HARRIS: You can drag your college degree into this poor home and they won’t 

know what you’re talking about. They won’t understand. You don't tell an Indian, ”1 hear 
you are poor, ” then sit there with a pencil and want to know all about him. He will tell you 


^ •I'i.'At.'.J i V !iUIT Ji IUU? W 1 . 

F ' ■ rtv vnm-r- w- . iu. * u . an 


I 43 

But you sit down and say, "Well, I’m working and I m un Indian , and they 11 open the 
door for you. I don’t care how poor they are, they'll let you come in if you’re Indian. 
Before you know it, they will tell you, "I only have a fifth grade education. Is there a place 
[ I can go to get training? I work for only $1.25 an hour. I sack potatoes. I have seven 

i children, but I can't send three to school because I don't have money for shoes. I can't 

I buy their lunches. " 

These are sore spots we've been talking about for months and years. I hope, out of 
this meeting, we can have more Indians work as counselors. It is lack of communications, 


j really. 

just as the mayor said this morning, they don't read the paper. The government puts 
I out bulletins galore. But does the Indian ever pick up a pamphlet? I've distributed 2000 

| pamphlets about our program. No one responds, but when you go to them, they ask about 

[ it. That shows they don’t read it. How do they know someone has a job? How do they 


know there's a program working for them for their benefit? You must have someone work 
directly with them. Maybe they don't have the cleanest chair and maybe the house isn't 
what you're used to, but they feel when you come into their home you re trying to help 
them. Talk to them in a friendly way and they pour their hearts out to you. 

Disease in the areas where I have worked like tuberculosis the non-Indian has never 
been able to report because when a non-Indian comes to the door with a briefcase and 
scratch pad, they won't let him in. But, an Indian goes there and they will say, "Well, 
they told me at the Indian Hospital I had tuberculosis, but I don't believe I have. You 
ask, "Would you mind going for a checkup?" An Indian is asking him, so he says, How 

can I get in? Can you make arrangements?" 


ZADOKA: We have in Anadarko a carpet manufacturing company. 

They have about 200 employees. About 35 or 45 percent are Indian. But they have such 
a tremendous turnover it is astonishing. It seems to me that as soon as they have a train- 
ing program lor Indians and they become production workers, they stay two to three months 
and then there's a mass layoff. Out goes the Indian, trained for a particular job. They 
pick up someone else and that part I don't like. 

CHAIRMAN: Those they bring in are Indians? 

ZADOKA: Yeah, they're new Indian trainees. This seems to be a problem for Indians 

in our local area. 

COX: I agree with those comments and I particularly like Mrs. Harris's description 

of her duties as a case worker. I'm personally acquainted with what she does and she's 

doing a fine job in our area . 

The point Mr. Zadoka brought up could be explored just a bit further. When we speak 
of bringing industries into Indian areas, it's on a basis of immediately available labor force. 
The point I believe he's attempting to emphasis is that when industry enters these areas, 
it's basically financed by other than Indian sources. This company is obviously after pro- 
duction or they wouldn't be in business. So, an individual is trained. Maybe he doesn't 
quite meet a particular qualification of this industry. The tendency is, then, a mass layoff 


Now, this stems primarily from an agreement between the Bureau of Indian Affairs 
and the cc npany because of subsidizing. I maintain that speaking about industry is also 
speaking about need for finances. If we're going to have industries in Indian communities 
we should provide means for Indians to develop these industries and finance them to the 
degree they have controlling interest. Then they control employment. We must have 


patience with one another in developing our people and in suffering with them for whatever 
time it takes them to become proficient. 

My point is that we need financial assistance in the process of industrial development 
in our areas, with a basic requirement that controlling interest of this industry lie with 

Indian people . 

CHAIRMAN: Is it your opinion there's an understanding between the Bureau and 

the Mills that this was to be a training program and that a certain number of Indians 
would train, then another group would be put in and then another group? 

COX: What I’m trying to say is that, obviously, the Bureau is involved to subsidize 

a certain amount of the pay an individual will get. But this doesn't necessarily prevent 
the industry which is in business for itself from laying off people. All I'm saying to you 
is that certain of these people because of, let's say, impatience or the desire to make 
money, are let go. It's a matter of pride, but I don't believe anyone can exceed an Indian s 

ability to use his hands or his mind. 

LITTLE SOLDIER: I want to take you folks north. I'm one of the full-blooded Indians. 

We've run into quite a few problems, but we try to solve them through contacting our county 
agents and our state representatives. We Indians should work with our white friends rather 

than fight them. 

We have a few problems due to the Garrison Reservoir. The government took the 
heart of our reservation and put us on the hills where our people weren't accustomed to 
living. We had to adjust ourselves to a new way of life and this is what we're doing today. 

GOSLIN: I want to get in a few licks for Kansas. We have our problems even though 

we're a small tribe. We have the same problems you have. Our biggest problem is getting 
the right kind of cooperation from the Bureau of Indian Affairs. We want to do something 
with our lands but we don’t seem to get any cooperation from the Bureau. They give us 


power one day and take it away the next. We present a program and they say, You 
can't do it, because of this regulation and that regulation. It ties us in a knot. 

One thing I think we're leaving someone out in regard to education. Some of us could 
better ourselves if we had opportunity to go to school, but we can't leave our homes. 

Let's have some schooling we can take by burning the midnight oil — a correspondence 

course. We could educate such people that way. 

C. SMITH: I think this is real important. There's no doubt in my mind we re speak 

ing of a proud race of people who've been confronted with all sorts of difficulties perhaps 
more than any other group in the nation or in the world. There’s a need for understanding 
by employment offices. Some people do a good job, but I think die hammer must pound 

away towards understanding of Indian traditions. 

I recommend to participants here, non-Indian as well as Indian, to see the film, The 

Indian Speaks." 

OSBORN: I agree with Mrs. Harris. I remember the President said that he liked 
what he saw and heard better than reading about it. If he would like to see the living 
conditions of our Indians, he can send a representative to the Indians. 

CHAIRMAN: I jotted down a few of the points we tried to develop. 

1. Industry, within reach of the Indian labor market, is recommended. 

2. Education and training, such as Okmulgee Tech School and vocational education 
in the high schools, is needed. 

3. Indian counselors are recommended. 

4. More Indian workers among Indians. 

5. More stabilized Indian employment in government subsidized programs such as 
Sequoia Mills. 

6. The traditional Indian must not be forgotten. We must remember him when we're 



5. More stabilized Indian employment in government subsidized programs such as 
Sequoia Mills. 

6. The traditional Indian must not be forgotten. We must remember him when we're 

Excerpted From: 

^/ 49 




Domingo Montoya 

Chairman, All Indian Public Council 
Bernalillo, New Mexico 


James St. John 

Bureau of Employment Security, USES 
Regional Office 
Dallas, Texas 

Other Participants 

Robert B. Bates 

Equal Employment Opportunity Advisor 
U. S. Civil Service Commission 
Washington, D. C. 

Lindsay L. Campbell 

Office of Farm Labor Service 
Washington, D. C. 

Wallace Galluzzi 

Principal, Haskell Institute 
Lawrence, Kansas 

Lawrence H. Hart 

Chairman, Cheyenne -Arapaho Tribes 
of Oklahoma 
Concho, Oklahoma 

Jim Hena 

Technical Assistant 
Indian Community Action Project 
Arizona State University 
Tempe, Arizona 

Gerald Kane 

Chairman, Owens Valley Paiute Shoshone Band 
Bishop, California 

Robert F. Lavato 

Pala Indian Reservation 
Pala, California 

Robert E. Lewis 

Governor of Zuni Pueblo 
Zuni, New Mexico 

Nelson Lupe, Sr. 

Arizona State Employment Service 
Whiteriver, Arizona 

Glen Mitchell 

Assistant Director 
Office of Special Activities 
Bureau of Apprenticeship & Training 
Washington, D. C. 

Mrs . Vynola Newkumet 

Representative, Caddo Tribe 
Norman, Oklahoma 

Excerpted From: 

PANEL NO. 1-C (Continued) 


Other Participants 

Dr. C. P. Penoy 

Bradley Reardon 

Emmett St. Marie 
Walden Silva 
Stanley Smartlowit 

Employment Counselor 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Concho Agency 
El Reno, Oklahoma 

Employment Service Advisor 
Bureau of Employment Security, USDL 
Washington, D. C. 

Spokesman, Morongo Reservation 
Banning, California 

Deputy Director, EEOC 
Albuquerque, New Mexico 

Member, Yakima Tribal Council 
Toppenish, Washington 

Lawrence Snaki 

William P. Soza 


Delaware Tribal Council 
Midwest City, Oklahoma 

Spokesman, Soboba Mission 
Hemet, California 

J. V. Yaukey Executive Assistant 

South Dakota Department of Employment 

Aberdeen, South Dakota 


£Z_ i 


CHAIRMAN: The main concern of our panel is what are the problems and obstacles 
prev enting an equal shake for Indians? If Montoia shows up, we'll have him take over. 

SOZA: The thing we need is education. That s our biggest problem . You could 

probably start on the trades with young kids. Many are capable, but haven't got 
facilities or money for college and this is the core of the thing. We should elevate these 

people so they can enter a different field. 

LEWIS: We know our own situation and we have the common problem of unemploy- 

ment. Many of our people are unemployed or underemployed and, as the gentleman from 
California said, we're in this situation today because of lack of training and education. 

We have people who went only to grade five or six and have limited knowledge of English. 
It's hard for them to relocate to urban areas and we can do very little about it unless 
industry could provide employment on the home reservation. Perhaps we can give each 
other ideas to help our reservations. Our communications have been lax in all depart- 
ments, but I believe we're hitting that problem . 

HART: I had a meeting before coming here on local Job opportunities . Most 

people who came to that meeting were unemployed young men. These men have been 
Peking employment in the surrounding community, but haven't found it. There have been 
documented cases of discrimination against the Indian solely because he was Indian. Many 
say that if they just had the chance to become employed they would prove themselves as 
many have. Many have been trained and have necessary skills. They're capable of 

learning and opportunity is all they need . 

SILVA: I’m interested in what I just heard and would like to see Mr. Hart later. 

We have 10 regional offices around the country and, through Title VII, attempt to 
eliminate this situation in employment. The reason we’re at this conference is because 
we want to hear from the Indians. Our office can help them in employment when there 
are charges of discrimination. 


BATES: One of our primary reasons for being here is to learn and understand 

the problems. The Civil Service Commission agenda for the future is to bring Indians 
into the Equal Employment Opportunity Program throughout Federal Service. As you 
know, our programs in the past have been directed towards Negroes, Mexican-Americans 
and Orientals. Our purpose is to make sure that Indians are not excluded from this 
program. There are Federal installations located in areas with high concentrations of 
Indians. Our objective is to see that Indians in these areas have an equal opportunity 
to compete for jobs in Federal agencies. One main purpose here is to zero in on the 

problems and see how we can best mobilize our efforts. 

CHAIRMAN: I hope you get many ideas on how to get more Indians in service. 

LAVATO: The services, particularly northern California Naval and Marine 
bases, have ammunition depots. I’ve worked there and many older ones work there now. 

Does this have something to do with training in Job Corps? 

BATES: No, the Job Corps program is different. We're concerned with employ- 
ment in the executive branch of Federal Government. 

CAMPBELL: I'd like to address a question to Mr . Bates concerning Civil 

Service programs and how they effect reservation Indian populations. Have there been 
thoughts on developing alternatives to testing or upgrading skills through an apprenticeship 
program in Federal employment for Indians who are disadvantaged or without opportunity 

to compete in the labor market? 

BATES: A number of things are underway in the Commission. For example we 

have eliminated tests completely. In others, we're taking what we call a Job Elements 
approach for checking background, employment history, education and experience and 
rating qualifications on this information. With regard to the entire DEO Program, 

Indians are included as much as any. There hasn't been any great effort in the past to 
promote opportunities just for Indians as there has been, say, for a larger minority 


group, the Negro. But we have in mind in Civil Service a program under which we would 
cooperate with Bureau of Indian Affairs in furnishing information to our new Board of 
Examiners and to our Regional Directors and their staffs. The idea is to see that no 
personnel officer overlooks Indians in his particular area when recruiting. 

MRS. NEWKUMET: Employment and education are important, but the important 

thing in the Muskogee -Anadarko, Oklahoma area is industry. 

I'm a director of the Land Management Board. We have about 2, 000 acres and 
we've been trying for two years to get an industry. What we have would be unskilled 
labor, because unfortunately, we've lost our educated Indians to California and Arizona. 
Many left to go to Oklahoma City and get jobs. It's unskilled labor and they wind up in 

slum areas. This displacement is very unfortunate. 

CHAIRMAN: If we had good jobs in the right places we'd solve a lot of problems. 
MRS. NEWKUMET: Exactly. There's a strata in education and labor skills and 

we have rarely touched the highest. We’ve hit the lowest which is really important, but 
there's an "in-between" and I don't think a blanket decision should be made on any of 

these problems. 

ST. MARIE: People talk about things in Washington, but it doesn't get down to us 

in California. We've heard about different problems. They tried in Riverside but they 
don’t have sufficient help. They promised to check our irrigation lines which are about 
50 years old. Last year we tried to irrigate, but it broke down. The people were 
squabbling about water and were afraid to garden or farm because they couldn't depend on 
the water. In Washington and different places we hear that they'll do this and do that, but 
it seems to go no further. Why doesn't it come down to us where it can do some good? 
ST. JOHN: Did I understand that the reason is lack of people? 

ST. MARIE: Lack of your help as far as Riverside is concerned. They have one 

or two men there who have about 10 or 15 reservations in Riverside and San Diego 




Counties. We've been promised help for four months, but they say, "I'm sorry, we can t 
help you right now because we've got to be in San Diego or someplace." What can you do? 
You can't blame the people in Riverside because they don't have enough help. They 
promised us with good intentions but promises don't help. 

CHAIRMAN: You're saying get more people in the local office? 

ST. MARIE: Yes, that's right. 

ST. JOHN: I’d like to know specifically the thing you're referring to. 

ST. MARIE: The Riverside area. 

ST.JOHN: Riverside. Any particular State agency? 

ST. MARIE: The Bureau of Indian Affairs field office. They've got only one or 

two men. 

LUPE: We’re having a conference to solve the problem of employment for 

Indians . I'm with Arizona State Employment Service and I found that one of the biggest 
problems among Indians and non-Indians is lack of understanding. We send a boy to a 
job and the employer tells him that he goes to work at eight and you quit at five. The 
employer never looks at that boy's homelife . He never tries to understand Indian 
culture or religion. Any time the Indian practices his religion or his culture, he may 
miss a day of work and then he's fired. 

It's our fault we lack information regarding rules set down by employers. We 
should understand these rules and regulations. I don't think discrimination has anything 
to do with Indians not finding work. An individual must stand on his own two feet and work 
into a job. 

We had a big construction job. The BIA put up a day school and about 30 boys 
were working. Out of 30 boys, only one stood up to his boss. Indians cannot take harsh 
commands or remarks. When we hear one, we take off because we don't want to listen. 
This boy stood up to his foreman, talked back to him and became one of the best Indian 



l . wwmmmmmmmm 




boys on the job. His foreman is trying to find a job in the company for him so he can 
take this boy along. 

MITCHELL: I would like to concur in Mr. Lupe's remarks. It does seem that 

industry is awakening to the need for understanding the Indian. Two weeks ago I met with 
a Washington company official who is very interested in establishing an industry in New 
Mexico. They wanted to know about training assistance. The big point is they're willing 
to spend hundreds -of -thousands of dollars to know Indian customs, religious beliefs and 
so on. 

More industry should do this. We must better understand and communicate. 

HENA: We've heard a lot of talk about Indian employment and we were told they 
wanted to solicit ideas from Indians. One of the speakers said that you go to a con- 
ference and hear a lot of words, but no action is taken. This should be an action 
conference. Several Federal agencies at this meeting need to consider an advisory 
committee at the national level with representatives from each agency and especially 
from Indian tribes. These agencies can utilize local talent from reservations. One 
problem is that our talent moves from local areas because there are no jobs. These 
agencies would do well to consider hiring Indians to work with their own people. There 
needs to be recognition of culture and of heritage. 

One of the biggest problems on the reservations is unemployment. Many tribes 
are trying to do something about it. However, many, especially New Mexico Pueblos, 
lack financial means to initiate programs. If means could be found to relax lending 
methods for Indian tribes, it would really help. When we talk of creating employment we 
need to also consider development of resources and bringing industry to reservations. 

In the OEO program, many tribes are too poor to produce their 10 percent share. They 
must be able to participate. We need to position agents and representatives of various 
agencies near the reservation so that they may work directly with tribes. Where 


possible, Indians should be employed in such positions. We should recognize that Indian 
tribes have a special relationship with the government. Immigration laws were lax 
when Indians had this country and therefore, you guys toox over. Agencies and employees 
of agencies should be informed of the special relationship between Indian tribes and the 
government, because they tend to impose regulations that really don't apply. 

SMARTLOWIT: Employment and education are the bigger concern of our tribe. 

We have the Watoo irrigation project. The project engineer was transferred and the 
Tribal Council and NFFE had a running fight with the project director about the promotion 
of tribal members. We've had men working there for 15, 20, 25 years and one for 28 
years doing the same job, in the same position although he's a college graduate. When 
they had an opening, the gentleman heading the project imported help to fill it. This was 
a big concern for the Tribal Council. 

At the Indian Agency, we have at least 200 employees. We spend $35,000 a year 
for scholarships to colleges, universities and trade schools and we find it true there, 
also. Instead of our own members getting opportunity to work for their people, somebody 
is transferred from some part of the United States to fill a position we know our members 
can fill . 

We set up our own budget of over $2, 000, 000 for employment and to take care of 
the agency and the irrigation project. I have a memorandum from our Commissioner of 
Indian Affairs. He says the Yakima Indians do not have preference. I disagree with that. 
As long as we are budgeting tribal funds, we should have something to say about employ- 
ment. (At this point Mr. Montoia assumed Chairmanship.) 

KANE: We have a good opportunity on our reservation for an industry. We want 

industry to employ our people on our own reservation. Through steady employment we 
can educate our children and this is where we're going to pick up. We will not educate 
our children through the kind of employment we have now, because it's seasonal and it's 
pretty hard in the winter. 


YAUKEY: I'm in this meeting because it had vacant chairs and I wondered if I 

was in the right place. But, I see the problems of the Indian are the same in most places. 

In South Dakota we've been rather successful with industry. At one reservation, 
Wright-McGill has a factory. There's an automobile muffler factory, a wool blanket 
weaver and a plastic toy factory, along with normal state industrial development. It s a 
partial solution to the problem . One thing, as we go "gung ho" on industries is to be sure 
there's a market for the product. Our start has been modest, but it's been good and can 

go further. 

PENOY: When we talk about education, we usually think of the academic scholar 

or the person attending a formal institution. Actually, education is everything. One of 
the big barriers for American Indians is the culture barrier, the misunderstanding of 
groups and lack of communication between them . Orientation into society is perhaps of 
most value to the most people. It is fear of the unknown. You must learn whether you 
like it or not. You may not like the white man, but you'll have to live with him. You must 
adjust to society and this calls for leadership among Indians. Almost no Indians are 
business wise. They're beginning, but they haven't had the chance. Among your 
associates, the men who run business are sons of the fathers who were businessmen. 

Don't stop at the academic level. Take another step. Put Indians into good business 
schools. Their leaders have done remarkably well, but they could go much further. The 

culture gap is almost a fear of the Indian by the non-Indian. 

Mr. Falluzzi from Haskell tells me young people are going into business and 
doing a good job. We need more of this. The Tribal Councils can't function well unless 
they have knowledgeable people. All businesses have business managers, but the Tribal 
Councils have been reluctant to use them because they've feared non-Indians. Some non- 
Indians are not much account, but there are good ones. 


MRS. NEWKUMET: I would add one thing to what Dr. Penoy has said. Indians 

are the most fortunate people in the world because they have the advantage of both 
cultures. It’s a simple matter of communication. 

CHAIRMAN: I come from New Mexico where I've been a member of Rural 

Development about 10 or 15 years. We had many meetings on how we could promote rural 
areas of the country and raise living standards. We got roads and thoi the State got 
worried about spending money on educating children since about 90 percent of those 
schooled in New Mexico with public money left the State! This was because of lack of 
industry . 

When you talk about education, there's a question about what will they train for 
in these vocational schools. There's no industry to train for! This problem exists in 
a great part of the United States. Industry must be brought to the people. The people 
don't want to leave their own country. It's true that some leave, but only for a short 
time. This is especially true of the Indian. They work for a few years, sometimes only 

a few months, and then come home again. 

GALLUZZI: At Haskell Institute we're proud that between 50 to 60 percent of our 
employees are of Indian decent including our superintendent. Any product we put out is 
at least 50 to 60 percent the effort of Indian people. They can do a good job in government 

ST. JOHN: Five ladies in our office say "Thank you" to any delegate from 

Haskell. We have five Indian girls in our office in Dallas and they're our most competent 


SNAKI: All problems seem to involve lack of education. Education and employ- 

ment go hand-in-hand, I agree. We must know what skills are required before we entice 
industry to a reservation. I would like to see industry on all reservations. 


I knov, several people who would gladly take this type of training who are older 
than 35 . They could give as much as 15 to 20 years of good productive labor if they had 
opportunity to go to school or trade school. They're older and they now realize what's 


ST JOHN: Which specific program, sir? 

SNAKI: Adult education and vocational training program . The Bureau of Education 

has a program with an age limit of 35. Over 35, you're disqualified. I'd like to see that 
age limit bj extended to possibly 50 years. We have many people on the reservation 

45 to 50 years old who could gL’», productive service. 

CAMPBELL: There are other Federal programs designed specifically to provide 
the type of services • 're discussing. I'm thinking of recently acquired prognms under 
the Nelson Amendment. This program is to assist in job training and employment service 
for older workers. Unfortunately, they spent all the money for this fiscal year. They 
only had about 12 million and it's all committed. This again points to communication. 

The people these programs try to reach aren't really informed. What we're trying to do 
is identify programs that assist Indian populations, inform Indians these programs exist 

and then get them together. 

I've been listening to problems in development of industry on reservations and in 
developing manpower resources. How do you develop total resources of the region? How 
do you reverse the migration so there is a healthy , broad -based economy within the area 
to support people? 

SNAKI: When you have a vocational training program for Indians, don t send 

them out of their State areas. Keep them within their community or within their State. 

CHAIRMAN: A young man, say up to 35 years, fails to go to work because of 
lack of health services. Let's say he has poor eyesight. Some can't afford a doctor and 
glasses. There's no dental service for adults. Many people can't eat the right foods, 


become weak and can't work very long. Maybe his hearing is impaired but, with help 
he could go back to work with a hearing aid. These services are not available unless 
you have the money yourself. These are services no individual received from any 

agency . 

REARDON: There is a possible solution through the State Employment Service. 
They put persons in contact with State Vocational Rehabilitation and funds are available 
for providing such things to enable them to get jobs. The problem has been cited many 
times today: getting people to act. This is wheis militancy on the part of the Indian 
is necessary. They must persistently demand services. You speak of cooperation but 
you must demand cooperation. It's just a fact of American life. Unless you yell 
persistently you'll be ignored, because there are many other groups asking for these 

services, too. 

CHAIRMAN: I've been demanding and crying for years for these services, but 
this is the first I've heard they were available. 

REARDON: I would be interested in knowing about your dealings with State 
Employment Service. Have they been favorable? 

CHAIRMAN: I get such good attention, they listen to us and they say they 
recognize the problem. I feel, as I go home the next day, something will be done 
about it. It's been two years and nothing has oeen done yet! 

Excerpted From: 






Other Participants 

Bert Anderson 

Ray Boyer 
Samuel Burt 
Erin Forrest 

William G. Funk 

Milton Graf 
Robert Jackson 

Walter J. Knodel 
Daniel H. Kruger 

Peter MacDonald 
William J. Moore 

Raymond Nakai 

Chairman, Navajo Tribe 
Window Rock, Arizona 

Emanuel L. Kohn 

Regional Director, USES 
Skokie, Illinois 


Department of Housing and Urban Development 
Washington, D. C. 

Minnesota State Employment Service 
Bemidji, Minnesota 

Special Assistant to the Director, USES 
Washington, D. C. 

Business Manager, X L Indian Reservation 
President, California Inter-Tribal Council 
and Chairman of the Governor's Interstate 
Indian Council 
Alturas, California 

Personnel Manager 
Sandia Corporation 
Albuquerque, New Mexico 

State Employment Service 
Scottsdale, Arizona 

Minority Group Representative 
Employment Security Department 
Seattle, Washington 

Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Washington, D . C . 


Michigan State University 
East Lansing, Michigan 

Executk'^ Director, ONEO, Navajo Tribe 
Fort L_;i uice, Arizona 

Assistant Administrator, BAT 
U. S. Department of Labor 
Washington, D. G\ 

Excerpted From: 

PANEL NO. 1-D (Continued) 

Other Participants (Continued) 

David W. Stevens 

Pennsylvania State University 
University Park, Pennsylvania 

Mel Walker 


Community Action Program 
Three Affiliated Tribes 
Mandaree, North Dakota 


CHAIRMAN: First, I wish to express my pleasure at the opportunity afforded in 

attending this conference. I'm pleased that many Indian tribes are represented. In this 
group I'm speaking to citizens who, by their very association, indicate their sense of 
civic responsibility. 

To those who may review the proceedings let it be known we have here Indian leaders 
and non- Indian officials interested in Indian problems and working together unselfishly for 
development of our many reservations and for benefit of Indian people. The speeches this 
morning point out certain things on which to concentrate. We need to exert our efforts 
toward effective program goals. 

Perhaps Mr. MacDonald, Director of the Navajo Economic Opportunity Program, can 
inform us of some problems. 

MacDONALD: For probably 15 months, we've been making various studies on needs 

and shortcomings of existing programs and how the total manpower program can be ac- 
complished with existing facilities and resources. 

On the reservation are approximately 100, 000 Navajoes residing in a geographic area 
of 25, 000 square miles. Our problem is somewhat different from those of smaller reserva- 
tions because added to a problem of unemployment, there are geographic, transportation 
and communication problems. The unemployment rate is some tiling like 75 to 80 percent 
which is 25, 000 to 30, 000 people . 

We found BIA, State MDTA and ARA doing vocational training, but we found tliis training only some good for some people and barely scratching the surface of the entire need. 

The problem seems to lie in lack of a complete manpower service program. Input of 
quantity and and quality never seems to match output. For example, although various 
training programs find eligible Indians, they're directed only to certain, isolated areas. 

In other words, when we need some welders, someone trains 10 or 15 welders. These 
welders train anywhere from five weeks to six months so they can pass their Class A 
test and, hopefully, then find a job . 

The same is true with electricians and others, but there's very little effort from 
training to placement or the job development phase of the program . This needs to be 
emphasized. Too much emphasis has been put recently and in the past on placing Indians 
off reservations. This has not been necessarily successful. The majority of the Navajo 
people like jobs on their reservations for good reasons. One ie that culturization of 
Navajos to urban life has not been effective because of language and communication 
problems. Frustration often sets in. This I sometimes refer to as Poverty of the Soul 
of the American Indian. When he's placed in an urban setting and expected to make a 
livelihood with the training he's been given, he may perform excellently in that skill. But 
in adjusting socially to the new setting he'll have a hard time. They often become home- 
sick. They fail to integrate into the urban way of life and this causes them to lose their 
job or end up in the slums . This only takes the unemployment situation from a reserva- 
tion and gives it to a city. 

Another situation is that many training programs usually take just the cream of 
existing manpower from the reservation. Of our 25,000 employable unemployed, the 
majority are unemployed because they don't have basic skills to enter a labor market on 

or off reservation. 

When money is made available they give tests, cream the top 100 and give them 
training. No one wants to be bothered with high school dropouts or those with no 
elementary education. Many are in this category. These are forgotten people. 

There is great need to provide some kind of training program for those who've 
dropped out of school and those with little education. 



These are some problems we’ve found on why we have a spiraling rate of unemploy- 
ment on the Navajo Reservation. Each year we have 2, 500 students graduate from high 
school and out of 2, 500 graduates only about 300 go beyond high school for vocational, 
technical or university training. We don’t know what happens to the other 2, 200. To 
have a training program for even 1, 000 a year would be falling behind because we re talk 
ing about high school graduates only! Then, there are probably 2, 000 or 3, 000 dropouts 
no one is touching these days, so services available to us aren't enough to even maintain 
the level of unemployment! 

This is a grave problem throughout the country. If we don't do something today, and 
we keep the same level of effort in the next 10 years, we won't have 75 to 80 percent un- 
employed. We may have 95 percent unemployed of a greatly increased total labor force! 

With this background, we've worked on a desirable manpower program which we believe 
workable as a demonstration program. If it works, it could be used in other areas. 

We have an integrated system, a total manpower program which includes entrance 
testing facilities, counseling and placement in the category or aptitude of their skills. 

We have intake centers for anyone, regardless of his education level. We bring them into 
this center and give each a test. Psychology, aptitude, ability to adapt to jobs and even 

their mental and physical abilities are considered. 

These people are then slotted into various areas. Some may need remedial or basic 
education. They go immediately to this education. It may take them six months to a year 
to get enough vocabulary of the trade to be able to communicate with the employer. Our 
intake center is to appraise an individual regardless of educational level, physical or 
mental capabilities or disabilities. From there, they go directly into specific vocational 
training. Some may finish high school or a technical training. While this is going on, 

ir ERlc 

lii* i-- — 



there's an operation we call a job development unit. There's no use training thousands 
of people in various job skills if we have no place for them to work or if we must ship 
them off the reservation . 

The job development unit works closely with the intake center. When they have 1, 000 
carpenters, job development knows we need 1, 000 carpenters and that there are that many 
job slots available on a reservation, either by bringing industry in or promoting industry 
already on the reservation. It will follow with on-the-job training where they can learn 
getting to work on time and have true work experience. A strong follow-up section com- 
pletes the system . This would take the resources of various agencies which must be 
integrated into the system to match individual needs. 

It's complex but we believe workable. It allows balanced effort. If you're producing 
too many carpenters, output tells input to slow down, to get more bricklayers because 
there's going to be demand for them or to get more space technicians because of expansion 
in space employment. 

This system will take money, but we feel this is the kind of program we would like 
to see. There are probably 2, 000 to 3, 000 permanent jobs with BIA on the reservation. 

Yet, probably only 20 percent of that payroll is held by Navajos. There are many jobs 
available for Indians and yet we believe there can be created subprofessional jobs to assist 
existing efforts of BIA as well as PHS. 

There's a great need for community teacher aides, dental aides, health aides and 
medical aides. These aren't being created we feel but can be created through programs such 
as Nelson Amendment. Eventually these subprofessional jobs can become a necessity for 
the Federal agency. There are jobs now for probably 2, 000 to 3, 000 Navajos who could man 
these positions except for educational limitation and lack of opportunity to train. These 
jobs such as teachers, administrators, land management supervisors and maintenance 


crews. These are jobs that can be filled by Indians if properly trained. These people 
can work themselves into supervisory and management jobs . 

But the most important thing I found is that each year BIA and PHS spend about $30 to 
$35 million in construction of school buildings for the Navajo. Out of that $35 -million 
worth of construction, only 5 to 10 percent of the workers are Indians . 

DR. KRUGER: Why is that so? 

MacDONALD: Because of lack of planning. The Bureau knows one or two years ahead 
of time and so does Public Health that they can build five schools on the reservation and that 
they will use plumbers, plumber s’ helpers, electricians, electricians’ helpers, carpenters, 
finishing workers, painters, and so on. Yet no one tries to look ahead and say that in the 
next three years we’ll have this much construction and we'll need this many employees. 

Let’s train them now so when construction begins, we'll have people ready to move into 
those jobs . 

This has not been done. Suddenly construction begins. It's usually let to an outside 
contractor who's given six months to a year to finish the project. He wants to make a profit, 
do it as quickly as possible and get off the job. The Navajos want jobs. Maybe only 15, 20 
or 30 are hired and those hired are usually for menial, unskilled jobs . Last year we made 
a survey and found only 60 employed Navajo craftsmen. Yet there are hundreds of jobs 
each year for craftsmen. The contractor goes off reservation to recruit craftsmen and 
each year this is repeated. 

There's a great resource for training programs if the Bureau and other agencies can 
anticipate and say, "We're going to build a school. It will take so many people to do the 
job and this kind of job skill will be needed. Let's train now so we'll have 90 percent 
Indians on these jobs . " 




Eventually with planning we can get more craftsmen and technicians from the Indian 

JACKSON: You said something about integration of training facilities by agencies. 

From what you just said now, present training may not be for any special purpose 
other than just doing it to be doing it without thinking of schools to be constructed in a few 

years . 

MacDONALD: Right. People who make a long-range plan don't consider the kinds of 

jobs that will be created by this construction. Therefore, no preparation is made to train 
Indians for construction jobs that will be available! 

JACKSON: Would it be part of your responsibility, Mr. MacDonald, to gear this 

training program to the coming construction? 

MacDONALD: Yes. It's our responsibility and we're doing something. We've pointed 

this out to Federal officials. There's a gap here. No one has ever thought about using 
this construction as a training program for Indians, mostly because it's let to private con- 
tractors and they're not often interested in training Indians. 

Provisions can be written into a contract. It may be mandatory that people with prior 
training be placed in these jobs even as assistants. With agencies assisting, the contractor 
won't feel he must pay for the entire on-the-job training program. 

WALKER: Do you have a program to train teachers and other professional people? 

How are you going to finance that? 

MacDONALD: This can be financed, I'm sure. Presently, our teacher training pro- 

gram on the Navajo Reservation is through the Bureau as scholarships. The tribe also 
has another major effort which is the Headstart Program. We find a few teachers, but 
we're trying to develop a training program for the intermediate, the "teacher -trainee". 



We want our teacher aids with a high school education to gain sufficient credits to become 

teacher trainees, then move into teaching. 

There’s a need for intermediate work, but funds are very scarce. We're doing it 
with whatever funds we have available. It's a difficult job and some present Federal fund 
programs could be expanded to include this kind of training. There are enough jobs created 
on reservations each year, and there are enough permanent jobs on reservations to take 

care of perhaps 50 percent of available manpower. 

GRAF: I want to point out that we inaugurated Indian Services in 1953 and we have the 

same staffing today, 14 years later, as we had then. Perhaps this meeting can help bring 
further resources to the job. 

Mr. MacDonald didn't mention services of the Arizona State Employment Service to 
our own reservation. We have four Navajos in the State Employment Service who work at 
branch offices on the reservation. These 4 employees are responsible, individually, for 
about 15, 000 people in many square miles. The problem is almost too big to handle. 

When we work up programs to help Indians, we must thoroughly analyze methods of co- 
operation so we work together in all these things . Through a united effort we can accomplish 


The Arizona State Employment Service in its service to Navajos has been chiefly con- 
cerned with recruiting agricultural labor. In the past, we sent out 6, 000 to 8, 000 Navajos 
annually to agricultural jobs. 

We hope to develop industrial jobs, using skills of training, and work in a cooperative 
effort to solve this problem. 

MacDONALD: There are many agencies helping the Indian employment situation. 

However, many agencies have their own guidelines and policies directed to a specific job. 


They're so far apart there's no interrelationship. A man can througn MDTA, but if he 
needs adult education or remedial work, he can't get it. On the other hand, another type 
program may offer what he needs. There are gaps we want to fill. When a man gets in 
the door seeking some kind of training, we should help him right up to getting the job so 
there is continuity rather than having him train for something and then tell him "OK, here's 
the Certificate; now you can go." Go where? How does he get to the next step? No one 
worries about this. A man with a certificate walks around in between these gaps and never 
gets to the next level. 

This is frustrating to Navajos. Other Indians are looking to the mainstream of American 
lifp to a permanent job they can be happy with, so there is need for coordination. I don t 
know whether this can be brought about. It may take two years to get him on the job, bu t 
the man should be guided from the time he desires to be trained until he gets the job. 

JACKSON: Or© problem with the Navajo Reservation is that it extends into three states. 

Most of us are aware of problems created by multi-state jurisdiction. 

BOYER: I can give you some of our experiences in upper Minnesota where the popula- 

tion on three reservations is about 10, 000 people who live in wilderness areas. Resources 
are limited to timber and timber products, tourism and fish. Housing is very inadequate. 
Educational levels are low because of lack of schools and transportation. The last two 
years we've worked on programs in home-building training. This develops skills in con- 
struction, carpentry, plumbing, electrical, sheet metal and heat installation work. 

Through these programs we hope not only to develop people for off- reservation work 
but also for home building and other construction on the reservation. In future years, out- 
side contracting for residential construction will not be necessary and can be handled 
entirely by Indians to improve their own lot. In this type of work they gain a livelihood, 
additional skills and better themselves economically and socially. 



CHAIRMAN: Although we implement a program, we go just so far with the individual 

and then turn him loose. The Bureau of Indian Affairs alone can't be effective. We need 
other departments involved so we come up with ideas on bridging these gaps. 

Training an individual in a job skill should, in turn, bring mobility to the individual. 

He should be able to get a job on the reservation, off the reservation or anywhere his 
type of job is available. The departments could work together in such a way that an avail- 
able job for which an Indian is trained would be made known to the tribe, so they could come 
up with someone to fill the position. 

Industrial development on reservations could also play an important role in creating 
jobs and training individuals. By working on this, we can train members of the tribe to 
qualify for certain positions . These are things we have in mind, but we need to bring in 
other Federal and state agencies to achieve these goals. 

FORREST: Certainly there is need for industrial development. There also is need 

for resource development. We've talked about job training. Many reservations don't have 
opportunity for jobs. These two fields of industrial development and development of re- 
sources should be explored. Generally, Indians must leave the area to find jobs, but. they 
need to retain their identity and can best do so by having jobs on the reservation. 

KNODEL: On the Navajo Reservation right now, we have 700 jobs that could be filled 
by Indians. The bottleneck is housing and this is a complex problem. Housing is a problem 
we find hard to crack. The only thing between 700 Indians and a job is housing. 

DR. KRUGER: Is it policy to build public housing on reservations? It only takes 




The MDTA program has made the whole thing a lot more flexible because you have 
seven, eight or nine MDTA programs in the area of the Navajo tribe. MDTA programs 
now operate in 11 states. Most of them are small, but at least it's a beginning. 

The most important thing said hire is that no agency can do this by itself. Two or 
three weeks ago, the Secretary of Labor read us the riot act. He wasn't talking about 
Indian programs. He was talking about slum clearance programs. He said the Bureau of 
Apprenticeship goes one way, Employment Service goes another, OEO goes somewhere 
else, NYC somewhere else. He said, "You must get together or this problem won't be 

Each of these agencies can perform a wonderful service, but none of them can do it: 
alone. I'm willing to confess our sins here. We haven't done as much as we should or as 
much as we could, mainly because we haven't had staff to do it. It's going to take money 
and coordination and we'll put our heads together to improve the situation. 

JACKSON: We're talking about lack of competitive labor force, not only Navajo, 
but on all reservations. We talk about available construction and, at the same time, we 
talk about our fellows not being able to work. Let's say all these people who are able to 
work are trained. After their training, what happens? Is it best to bring in industry, best 
to send them to jobs off the reservation or best to let them sit on their fannies at home? 

What are the answers to lack of a competitive labor force? Should we locate industrial 
development on the reservation? Should we send them to Chicago or other cities? What 
should be done with a labor force after training? 

FUNK: I think industry can do something about this. I recognize that generally the 
T iytirin doesn't want to move off reservations and that you want industry to move onto the 
reservation so people can be employed there. There are cases though where industry can 



DR. KRUGER: That’s very important because if there's no prohibition, then we 

should make an all-out effort for funds through the Housing Authority to build public housing. 

ANDERSON: I'm an architect. We do have public housing on reservations. We have 

two kinds: conventional low rent and mutual-help housing. We also have the kind of housing 
in which we train construction workers . 

MOORE: You mentioned you're interested in problems with development of craftsmen . 

Fifteen years ago our people attempted an apprenticeship program . We had a very optimistic 
figure of $90 million for a road program under "forced" contract. That fell through and, 
with it, the apprenticeship program. 

I want to mention some of the problems. We found the educational level pretty low. 

I was, therefore, much impressed with Mr. MacDonald's figure of 2, 500 high school gradu- 
ates. That's encouraging because standards for apprenticeship around the country call for 
a high school education or the equivalent. We can't very well lower those standards, 

One problem is that you're not in an industrial area. Fifteen years ago, the concept 
was to get the Indian off reservations. Now you have another concept and I'm glad to see 
people promote mobility so Indians can take work on reservation or some other place. 

You have a joint Apprenticeship and Training Committee. This is a very good idea because 
there's no use training a man for four years and then not having a job waiting for him. 

On various reservations we've attempted skilled training. We had this problem of 
getting the men close to an industrial area. I was pleased to hear you have $5 million in 
construction work every year. This should give wonderful opportunities for boys to get into 

trades . 

furnish jobs to Indians in an industrial area. We certainly can in Albuquerque and have 
for 20 years. But right at the moment, we're trying an idea that's not working very well. 

We would like to get into vestibule training. Children who have MDTA training -- I'm 
thinking of girls with clerical skill who haven't reached top speed who come from Pueblo 
or reservation — still have a home environment, have never lived in the city and don't 
know how to cope with either urban or industrial environment. Those people need some 
kind of vestibule training before they actually go into industry. We've talked with MDTA 
in Sandoval County and they graduated about 20 girls just recently. We'd like to put six of 
those girls -- two Indian and four Spanish -American -- into vestibule training and move 
them into Albuquerque to an industrial environment that will make them good employees. 
That's our problem . I've talked with people in Washington, but haven't solved it yet. We 
will furnish training, but somebody must furnish subsistence for these people while they're 
training and, I'm told, when MDTA is finished, that's the end. There's no way to furnish 
subsistence even if further training is available . 

KNODEL: The Bureau of Indian Affairs can and will b e glad to ! 

CHAIRMAN: What does it take for industry to relocate or set up shop on an Indian 

FUNK: I can't speak for industry in general. My own organization as a prime con- 
tractor for AEC is located where they built facilities. I don't know what other industry 
might do . 

STEVENS: I think it takes a combination of what Mr. Jackson referred to, a com- 
petitive labor force and a competitive location. These are the key factors. 

Industry is interested in making more than a profit and it appears that location, 
labor force and other factors must be the best for the particular industry you're talking about. 


One other point no one has mentioned is labor unions. We've talked about draftsmen, 
skill trades and these things but a very important institutional group is the labor union. 

BURT: We could take many lessons learned over the years from various states 

which have established development corporations. They travel throughout the country 
and pirate or persuade industries to locate new plants in a particular area. Applachia 
has done some fine work in this respect with tax incentive programs on buildings . State 
vocational, educational and economic development people have even put together what they 
call a "Bank of Equipment. " Once they find an interested industry or company, the de- 
velopment corporation will train people for specific jobs. They send job analysts to the 
company to study the jobs and set up a training program, then come back to the equip- 
ment bank. If they don't have particular equipment, they might rent or buy it to provide 
training. Lacking that possibility, they send key trainers who learn the job in the plant 
as it's now operating and who then return to conduct training. They even send unskilled 
people to learn jobs on the site. 

In other words, you do everything possible to attract industry into your area and one of 
the major things you must do is provide a skilled labor force. Really, it's a matter of 
sales presentation and technique. 

FORREST: Mr. Burt points out exactly one thing I wanted to hear and that is how the 
states do it. Our problem is competing with these states. What kind of incentive can we 
give and how can we go about competing? We have potential resources, but how can we 
compete with states that have money? How do we go about enticing industry with only re- 

BURT: Isn't tills the point of this meeting? It takes special money from various 
government agencies. 

FORREST: What governmental agencies? 


CHAIRMAN: That's exactly the point you touched on a moment ago. We don t know 

just how to approach this area. This is economic -industrial development. How are 
necessary funds made available and through what department of government so we can 
set up some sort of revolving fund? Presumably the tribes could draw from that particular 
fund to set up facilities and training programs. We mentioned this a number of times, 
but we haven't as yet come up with the approach needed. 



Excerpted From: 




Chairman Roger Jourdain 


Red Lake Tribal Council 
Red Lake, Minnesota 

Recorder William Corwin 

Employment Service Adviser, USES 
San Francisco, California 

Other Participants 

Russell R. Benedict Staff Assistant 

Rincon Band, San Luiseno Mission Indians 
Poway, California 

John B. Buckanaga MIAC - Minnesota 

St. Paul, Minnesota 

Herman E. Cameron Chairman, Bay Mills Indian Community 

State Commission on Indian Affairs 
Brimley, Michigan 

Leonard W. Carper Personnel Staffing Specialist 

Federal Aviation Agency 
Kansas City, Missouri 

Peter Du Fault President 

Minnesota Chippewa Tribe 
Cloquet, Minnesota 

Francis Freemont, Jr. Business Manager 

Omaha Tribe of Nebraska 
Macy, Nebraska 

Regional Consultant 
University of North Dakota 
Grand Forks, North Dakota 

Assistant Regional Representative 
Vocational Rehabilitation Administration 
Department of Health, Education, and Welfare 
Kansas City, Missouri 


Stockbridge Munsee 
Bowler, Wisconsin 

Tribal Representative 
Mission Creek Indian Reservation 

Whittier, California 

Dr. Peter Hountras 

George Kester 

Edwin Martin 

Wallace J. Newman 




Excerpted From: 

PANEL NO. 1-E (Continued) 

Other Participants 

Dr. E. S. Rabeau 

Harry Simons 
Keith Wakeman 

Albert Whitebird 

Sam Yankee 


Division of Indian Health 
U. S. Public Health Service 
Washington, D. C. 

Mille Lacs Community Action Program 
Onamia, Minnesota 


Flandreau-Santee Sioux Tribe 
Flandreau, South Dakota 

Representative Tribal Chairman 
Bad River Tribal Council 
Odanah, Wisconsin 


Mille Lacs Reservation 
McGregor, Minnesota 



CHAIRMAN: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. A reporter is taking down the 

minutes of this "big smoke." 

I'm going to limit myself to a brief observation regarding the problems of employment 
as it affects the Minnesota people we represent. I'm from northern Minnesota with the 
Red Lake Chippewas and one problem I've been most concerned about is getting employers 
and the general public to recognize the Indian citizen of his state. We ve been fighting for 
many years for recognition in employment. We re not looking for special privileges. All 
we're still looking for is equal employment opportunity. 

We have people in Minnesota who from time to time rejected applications of our Indian 
citizens for jobs. They were qualified applicants but were rejected because of the stereo- 
type image of many, many years. This has been the biggest obstacle and biggest drawback 
to the Indian. In many cases, people with good qualifications had to be 99 percent genius 
in comparison to non-Indians when making job applications. 

The non-Indian has know-how, personal contact with employers and personal contact 
with unions. They have a pipeline the Indian doesn't have. Only in recent years have we 
begun to acquire contacts and maintain communications with employers, ihe Indian is 
capable of measuring up to any work standard required. 

It goes back to education, welfare and housing . They say, "Why don t you be like us 
and join us in the mainstream of society?" Today, I've already heard, "Why doesn't the 

white man's mainstream join the Indian's mainstream?" Let's make it a two-way street, 
instead of a one-way street. We encountered an obstacle we had to overcome with many 

conferences, phone calls and telegrams. We quit writing because the letters fall in 
"File 13" and the pressure groups in that main office put it to one side. 

In our estimation, one of the most pressing problems is MDTA funds. For example, 
we had a training program at Red Lake Reservation. We got verbal approval in Washington 



and in state offices . Then we had to go through a school board district other than Red Lake 
School District. The school board didn't anticipate the added cost of MDTA for Red Lake. 

If resources are available to the Indian reservation, then MDTA should meet with the tribal 
governing body responsible for development of any program at the reservation level. 

They should review antiquated rules and regulations governing release of MDTA funds 
to Indian reservations. These should be streamlined and flexible enough to allow impro- 
vising instead of saying that you're not within the legal interpretation of our existing pro- 
gram. Let's not be so legalistic and highly technical about these things; let's just be human. 
We’re dealing with people and they're eager to take advantage of resources available to all 
citizens of the U.S. 

On the other side, we have the best working relationship with Ray Boyer of the State 
Employment office and he's been extremely concerned about Red Lake people. At one time, 
he set up a station in the Red Lake Reservation for unemployment insurance claims. It 
was a hardship for many unemployed to hire a car and go 35 miles to the nearest employ- 
ment office. Last year we had approximately 69 claimants but it dropped to 11 late last 
fall, so there's been improvement in employment on the reservation. 

CORWIN: I'll take some of the meatiest comments from this discussion and record 
them. I’ve a long-standing interest in problems of Indians in my region. I'm not as 
knowledgeable as I'd like to be about problems of Indians but I know there are many. Per- 
haps I can learn more at this conference. 

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Corwin. I'd like to call on John Buckanaga. 

BUCKANAGA: Roger asked if someone from the Minnesota Indian Affairs Commission 

would comment. I’m a former tribal secretary and, therefore, I've some knowledge of 
problems Indian people face. We’re charged with responsibility in areas of employment 
opportunities, employment development, industrial or business development, health, edu- 



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cation, welfare and law enforcement. I think the Indian deserves more voice in his own 
affairs. No one else could know the problems better than the Indian. 

We're faced with basic problems in the area of education and improving the economy. 
We've been concerned with OEO, Project Head Start, Neighborhood Youth Corps, the Nelson 
Amendment and many other components of our CAP program. Labor unions are becoming 
more involved as friends and allies to our problems and are strengthening the voice of the 
Indian in Minnesota. 

Each state is obligated to perform duties for Indians at the state level. At the commis- 
sion level, they're proposing legislation to create a program to help Indians in Minnesota 
on a matching fund basis to supplement programs sponsored by Federal agencies. Every 
state should do this. We've developed some vocational training skills in Minnesota with 
housing programs . 

The big push at this conference is to center our activities on improving the economy 
and identifying problems. One problem is education; elementary, secondary and vocational 
technical training. Numerous college education programs are available through states, the 
federal government, church groups, private individuals, foundations and numerous other 
sources for students who wish to continue their education. On-the-job training in other 
areas is vital. I think we must more or less forget about relocation of Indians as a major 

solution. We all realize his problem and I think relocation is a thing of the past. 

We need to improve skills. It's been long neglected and it's time we became involved 
in this problem. In Minnesota, for example, BIA established a policy, I believe in 1965, 
whereby the Indian student couldn't go on to vocational training. We have about 23 voca- 
tional training schools scattered throughout the state. Four more are to be created. These 
vocational schools are geared for local areas which would be applicable to Indians residing 
in those areas. We'd like the Indian student to attend these schools. I don't believe in the 

S'. LL >— V j 


hard and fast policy the Bureau has established of limiting educational programs to 
metropolitan-urban youth of St. Paul and Duluth. I don't believe our students want to go 
there and I don’t believe parents want them to go there. This group should request that 
the Bureau make this policy more flexible. The Bureau should work with tribal councils 
on this kind of problem. Councils should have a voice in ironing it out. They shouldn’t 
follow guidelines so stringent they eliminate many good candidates. 

I’d like to introduce Mr. Jim McKay of the Business Development Office for Minnesota. 
We talked him into coming along so he can steer Minnesota's technical aid services for 
the 30, 000 Indian people in the state . 

CORWIN: Excuse me sir, but I have a question for the record. Did I understand 

that in 1965, BIA instructed Indians on reservations that they could not participate in vo- 
cational educational facilities except in three metropolitan areas and that this represents 
3 of the 23 schools in Minnesota? 

BUCKANAGA: My report, submitted to the governor last week, is a matter of record. 

The Minnesota area vocational schools have been or are being located in Bemidji and Detroit 
Lakes near the two most populated Indian areas. It would be about 7, 000 population. The 
policy of the State Department of Education and tribal governments has been to encourage 
attendance by those living within 35 miles. These two schools, it was hoped, would be 
available to Indian students living within the areas. Our commission learned in February 
1966 that in 1965 the Bureau established policy to discontinue for Indian students use of all 
Minnesota vocational- technical schools except those located in Minneapolis, St. Paul and 
Duluth. The philosophy behind this policy is that students should be far removed from 
their areas and it was economically more feasible to centralize them. This contradicted 
policy of the Department of Education and was a blow to them because the state more or 
less relied on the Indians to provide an institution they could attend. 


NEWMAN: Were there any other areas of prejudice other than geographical place- 


BUCKANAGA: In relation to not being able to take training? I think it was just their 

policy. In fact, I got BIA to meet with the Commissioner of Education for the first time 
in the history of the state to talk about this problem. As of today, we have approval of 
the Bureau to attend Bemidji school provided applicants can meet requirements set by the 
Bureau on certain courses. We don’t like that. We’d like to take full advantage of the pro- 

In my research survey of Bureau schools in that area, I found the Bureau had contracted 
with private vocational training schools and the tuition rates were between $650 and $900 a 
year. Just for tuitions! They’d said that Indian students between 17 and 21 could go to any 
state school tuition free. They told us the new policy was an economy move and that they 
had more technical services in the area offices. But they don't and we proved it. This 
wasn't an economy move. 

MARTIN: I thought it was cleared up and that they recognized Detroit Lakes and 

BUCKANAGA: I think they're in the process of recognizing them again on a limited 

basis. We're going to follow up, but they don't have contracts at this time. 

CARPER: Could you give me any indication of problems you've met in Federal em- 

ployment programs? 

BUCKANAGA: Roger, you probably have some resource people from State Community 

Action Committee working with these federal programs. We have problems, but they re 
not big problems. We've been getting many services particularly Federal aids, loans 

and grants. 


CARPER: Our agency is associated with aviation and we need technical people as 

well as supporting clerical types. What we’re interested in is, who can we contact, other 
than the Federal employment service, to project our job needs into the Indian community? 

JOURDAIN: You can contact tribal governing bodies of the reservations. Make direct 

contact rather than going through channels. In Washington they get lost. 

CORWIN: Being a member of the Federal establishment, I know we have a rather 

elaborate system of testing for those coming into government. I wonder if Mr. Jourdain 
would care to enlighten me on how Federal testing programs may or may not discriminate 

against the Indian as they often do other groups? 

SIMONS: Mille Lacs and BIA are very interested in a vocational training program 

located on the reservation and have a grant for a new community training center. We 
sent our community service director to MDTA for funds for instructors. You knock on 
the door and even before you're seated, even before they hear your program, they tell 
you all funds are exhausted. 

CORWIN: I have heard MDTA funds are exhausted in certain areas. They're not, 

in fact, exhausted, but have merely been diverted to areas of high concentration of particular, 
specific urban problems. For example, if you recall the riots of a year or two ago in 
Watts, California, it was found that utilization of MDTA funds might be better. There 
was a heavy concentration of unemployment creating social, economic and political pro- 
blems. No, my question with respect to employment in Federal government was whether 
testing procedures for employment represented a severe handicap? 

DR. HOUNTRAS: They do, indeed, discriminate against people from a disadvantaged 

area. These instruments are primarily suited for middle class backgrounds and the ad- 
vantages this implies. People from disadvantaged backgrounds are not in as good a position 

to do well . 


CARPER: The Federal agency developed training programs, but still there's a test 

required before admission to even minimal training levels. Can you see this, in itself, 
as a problem? 

DR. HOUNTRAS: Yes. I feel there must be revisions in instruments used. 

KESTER: In relation to getting individuals from low level into government, let me 

show you what we're trying to do in one area working with mentally retarded. We've de- 
veloped new standards and a new classification as far as government service is concerned 
to establish job opportunities for these individuals in government work. This is a step 
towards what you're talking about. Make revisions and relax some stringent standards 
developed in certain categories. 

DR. RABEAU: I agree it's not designed to be against disadvantaged, but it will work 

against them. 

The two principal Federal employers of Indians are the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the 
U.S. Public Health Service. The Indian has employment preference under either agency. 

I can't speak for the Bureau, but I can for Public Health. About 54 percent of our employees 
are Indians. Appointments are made without testing. In the health professions, of course, 
training is of the essence and training automatically eliminates testing. Licensed practical 
nurses by virtue of their license are automatically accepted. The same is true with any 
health profession. For employment in the health field, the major problem is lack of educa- 
tion. We do considerable training in our own program and have trained thousands of 
people of Indian descent for employment in the health field. The stumbling block is educa- 
tion. Let me cite a perfect example. We were given funds for post-graduate courses for 
our licensed practical nurses in one hospital in South Dakota. We were also given money to 
pay for training of those wanting to become R. N . 's . We found it difficult to get three girls 
in any one year who could pass minimum qualifications for nursing school. 


People must be motivated to better themselves. The Indian, if opportunity is there, 
will take advantage of it, but you can't motivate them past educational barriers. A lot of 
effort must be put on this. I have a program with 350 physicians which includes exactly 
two Indian physicians. That's a horribly low figure. 

Even in fields where a high school education is not necessary, it's still difficult for 
many to acquire necessary training skills. These are major stumbling blocks. There s 
the old adage that an Indian won't take an opportunity . 

FREEMONT: You say education is a stumbling block as far as motivation of an Indian 
is concerned and I would like to know what is prohibiting the Indians in your organization 

from advancing? 

DR. RABEAU: They’re not prohibited. 

FREEMONT: You've had registered nurses there for 30 years, but you take a young 
nurse fresh out of college and make her head nurse. I know this as fact. I live in that 


DR. RABEAU: That was an isolated case where there was no further training. 

FREEMONT: They go to training schools for additional training and they should re- 
ceive consideration for promotions, but promotions never come to Indian trainees. This 
is outright discrimination against your Indian employees. 

DR. RABEAU: I can't deny there might be cases where this is ostensibly so. I m 
not qualified to say every such case has been remedied. I would say many of our Indians 
have advanced to top positions in the division. 

CAMERON: One thing bothering many Indians is retaining leadership . We seem 
to encounter a hard core of unemployment among Indians . The educational level is 
corresponding low. In our discussions here, we should try to isolate that particular 
problem. We should ask ourselves why we're not making comparative progress and 


bringing ourselves into the mainstream of society. I have attended every conference of 
the last few years and, in spite of the stupendous amount of money being spent, we retain 
this lack of progress . Something is amiss here. We don't attend PTA programs. We 
don't do anything! We seem to advance with individual ideas of progress. We seem con- 
cerned only with our own progress. 

This progress in Minnesota is very good . But, can we say this is applicable across 
the Nation? That's why we're following these conferences. We should study the hard core 
problems of the Indian. Is is lack of education or lack of appreciation of education? With- 
out determining cause, I don't think we'll ever see progress. We must tackle this basically, 
not superficially. Let's get down to basics rather than holding conferences on the pro- 
verbial tread -mill. Let's get into the "brass tacks" of the situation. 

WHITEBIRD: Today, Mr„ Bennett gave a very good speech and they should make 
this speech a reality. It's up to Indian people and the U.S. Government to see every word 
of that speech carried out. We'll have progress. In the past, I think BIA had to clean 
their own back steps. When the Indian is driving the same "cat" or "grader" he's under- 
paid. These people should get the same pay so they can buy the same loaves of bread. 

DU FAULT: We adopted a resolution in 1966 at Bemidji State College requesting steps 
be taken. I will read the resolution to get it on the record. It says: 

"Whereas, the Reservation CAP programs are expanding and the number of employees 
is increasing from 132 to an estimated 400 or more, who need in-service training and 
technical assistance at close hand; and, 

"Whereas, the reservation and community leaders and activists are in need of training 
and education resources; and 


"Whereas, a variety of programs such as Youth Leadership Training need 
continuity and expansion; and 

"Whereas, an education center is needed in our region, where teachers, counselors 
and other professional people can take academic work for credit in the special fields of 
Indian education; and, 

"Whereas, the area of research fellowships in Indian education, culture and 
collection of information need to be fostered; and 

"Whereas, Bemidiji State College has built a noteworthy record of interest, 
achievement and responsibility in the field of Indian community service and education, 

"Now, therefore, be it resolved, that the Minnesota Chippewa tribe appoint an 
Advisory Committee to work with the college in accomplishing these goals. 

WAKEMAN: A comment on Mr. Freemont's observation about Indian people being 
passed over for promotion. We find it's not only Public Health that holds down promotion 
of Indian employees. We’d like our people to receive an education and qualify themselves 
to handle jobs, but when it comes time for promotion and they're passed over, this is a 
discouraging thing. It’s caused quite a bit of friction between Indians and non-Indians. 
Our Employment Service could help in this regard and Indians could be given equal oppor- 
tunity for promotion. They meet the same qualifications. Indian teachers could handle 
our Indian students a lot better than our non -Indian friends. 

I work for the Post Office Department and there are only two Indians in the South 
Dakota post offices. We’re going to ask for support in getting our people in Federal 
employment. The Post Office has a policy of sending out questionnaires about Indians 
employed in the departments. 



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This is work we should try getting Indians into. 

BUCKANAGA: As the gentleman from Michigan said, we have high unemployment 

among Indians, low educational status and we don’t seem to break through. Some have 
talked about motivation as one of the important things. I disagree. Motivation is not a 
problem. An Indian looking for his life’s occupation asks himself if he wants to get train 
ing that will lead toward a certain position. When he looks at BIA, the people managing 
the affair are non- Indians. I have heard Indian boys say: "Look; I’m just an Indian, what s 
the use of bucking the system?" The system has been, in the past, rigged in such a way -- 
I take that back; I don’t want to say rigged -- that Indian affairs are ru n by white men. It 
behooves the Federal establishment to show Indians changes are coming and a lad, invited 
to make the tremendous effort necessary to become an administrator, will have something 
to administer. They don’t believe now! They don’t think these avenues are really open to 

them. It’s up to us to see these openings exist. 

It seems true that Indians are often proprietors as well as disadvantaged citizens. 

They are proprietors for huge tracts of land. It would behoove the Federal establishment 
to have Indians in training think of these Indian proprietors and sons of proprietors and help 
trainees get new land tracts. There are many thousands of acres still void. Why then are 
training programs not designed to equip them to become proprietors instead of always 
making them machinists or tractor drivers? I’d like to see more of them become land 
managers and proprietors and I don’t mean working on farms. 

FREEMONT: One thing has bothered me through the years and that is the talented 

child. What about the talented child discovered early, the disadvantaged child with high 
intelligence? By the time he’s through high school, if his program hasn't been good enough, 

you have a lost cause. 





We’re talking about 500, 000 Indians. The true Indian picture hasn’t been printed. 
Professor Jack Forbes at San Diego said people of Indian descent number between 14 
million and 16 million, not 500, 000! Indians, by and large, in a society that's been quite 
hostile have done fairly well. I’m not one to downgrade what the Indian has accomplished. 
There have been quite a few Indian medics and I wonder how they compare to the number 
of other medics by population. We have many talented Indians in the United States. We 
have many in industry. We have many teachers and nurses and I resent being downgraded 
all the time. I don’t think Indians are that bad. I think we’re going to make it in a hostile 
society. Maybe we should have been wiped from the face of the earth. A good attempt was 
made, but we're still here. I want to cheer the attitude of fellows who are getting rough. 

We need to fight for wages and we need to fight for position. I've been in education $11 my 
life and I believe I know fundamental causes. We talk about the 500, 000 but what about 14 

million? I think they’re getting along all right. 

CORWIN: Percentagewise, some Indians have made it in rather high professional 
capacities. I can speak for Employment Service, particularly in our programs directed 

toward the disadvantaged. We’re not heartlessly unconcerned about the 3 percent or 4 
percent of any group that have made it, but we're concerned about that 50 or 75 percent 

that haven't made it. 

WHITEBIRD: I attended a meeting at Aberdeen where Father Bird said it appears the 
Indian is now going to school longer at least through 8th and 9th grade. But he has a cultural 
conflict. It’s a problem and it’s subconscious, but the people don’t know it’s subconscious. 
Western culture "punches” them and you have a drunken Indian, a rowdy Indian, a wahoo 
and soon he just doesn't care. He can’t win so he gives up. This is where education comes 
in. We must start with children, make them "good" Indians and good workers, so they 

can live a fairly good life. 


'war* waras 





FREEMONT: On my small reservation we have the National Teacher's Corps 

sponsored by the University of Omaha. We have 290 children enrolled in elementary | 

school. In testing these 290 students, the Teachers Corps found one in the 5th grade and 
one in the 7th grade above genius level . They brought this to the attention of the tribal 

council. We have notified our attorney and he will enroll them in some eastern school. j 

I referred to this earlier. 

CAMERON: This discussion is very enlightening and brings out some things I have 

harbored for sometime. I’m going to say critically I have not witnessed once on our reserva- 
tion an effort to bring our people out of the "mine. " We had a seminar where they tried 
to inspire our people. You know, where they talked lofty idealism. But there is something 
lacking, because we're floundering. We're just talking about the significance of tilings that 

are wrong. Let's analyze this thing and get at it. Let's start over. 

YANKEE: I can't hear very well, but I catch a few words and I want to give you a good 

example. Myself. I’m going on 70 now and when I first went to school in 1905, I was 7 
years old. They had a good government school. To show you how bright I am, I was in 
the 3rd grade for 3 years. In 1917, when the war broke out, I was still in the 5th grade. 

I never finished. I joined the Navy. I was out in 1919 and I never went back to school. | 

I was supposed to, but they didn’t bother me. We had trade courses in school and I worked 

pretty good. I took up steam engineering and I carried a steam engineering degree for 

Minnesota. There is no demand for steam engineers now. I consider myself a jack-of-all- 

trades. I can’t hold a steady job. The young people should have training. We’re pulling 

for vocational training on our reservation. I have been enjoying this "borrowing other 

people’s brains. " 

L r O 


^ 1 — 


FREEMONT: I make a motion we go on record requesting the Bureau of Indian 

Affairs extend employment assistance services to small business operators on reserva- 
tions. On my reservation we have 5 or 6 of them employing 50 men or more. 

CORWIN: You have, if I understand you correctly, requested the extension of govern- 

ment assistance to small business currently on reservations? Would you further resolve 
that effort be made to bring small industry onto reservations? 


DUFAULT: Second . 

CHAIRMAN: Discussion? 

WHITEBIRD: Our Indian reservations need backbone, such as industry, and their 

own "green blood" like other communities. Without backbone and the "green blood" called 
money, we're not going any place. 

CHAIRMAN: Let's vote on this motion. All those in favor of the motion say "aye." 

(Unanimous "aye.") All opposed? (No response.) 

Excerpted From: 





Edison Real Bird 

Chairman, Crow Tribal Council 
Crow Agency, Montana 


Max R . Salazar 

Deputy Director . 

Employment Security Commission of New Mexico 

Albuquerque, New Mexico 

Other Participants 

Hollis Chough 

Arizona State University 
Mesa, Arizona 

Robert Elliott 

Wyoming Employment Service 
Riverton, Wyoming 

Ben G. Evans 

Montana State Employment Service 
Helena, Montana 

Carl Fauver 


Community Action Program 
Havre, Montana 

Jess Fletcher 


State Employment Service 
Helena, Montana 

Merwin Hans 

Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 
Washington, D. C. 

Robert N. Harris 

Chairman, Shoshone Tribe 
Morton, Wyoming 

Do ranee Horseman 

Chairman, Fort Belknap Agency 
Harlem, Montana 

Forrest L. Kinley 

Lummi Indian Tribe, OEO Director 
Marietta, Washington 

Andrew Lopez 

Staff Technician with Minority Group Specialist 
Employment Commission of New Mexico 
Albuquerque, New Mexico 

Earl Old Person 

Tribal Chairman, Blackfeet Tribe 
Browning, Montana 

1 J'mu i ^ 

,^_ wu»n 1- gagag^^gss TO 


Excerpted From 

PANEL NO. 1-F (Continued) 

Other Participants 
Roy Plumlee 

Martin Seneca 
Dr. W. A. Soboleff 
Melvin Vicenti 

Jerome Vidovich 

Assistant Chief 

Farm Labor Service 

New Mexico State Employment Service 

Albuquerque, New Mexico 

University of Utah (OEO) 

Salt Lake City, Utah 

Alaskan Native Brotherhood 
Juneau, Alaska 

Vice Chairman 
Jicarilla Apache Tribe 
Dulce, New Mexico 

Tribal Council Member 
Pyramid Lake Council 
Wadsworth, Nevada 




CHAIRMAN: We're here to solve Indian problems and I think we're the people who 

know Indian problems . 

SENECA: We're concerned with unemployment and lack of industrial- economic develop- 

ment on a reservation. It seems everyone is talking about the tremendously high unemploy 
ment rates of Indians but there seems to be little concrete action to solve the problem. We 
should be looking not for education alone but job placement on the reservation. 

SALAZER: You talk an awful lot about the plight of the Indian, but we re not doing any- 

thing about it. 

SENECA: BIA came up with a program of relocation. They send a person away to a 

metropolitan area such as "L. A. ” and perhaps place them in a good position at $10, 000. 

But they come home to the reservation to their friends and families and go back on welfare. 

If they had employment, or job opportunity in their home area unemployment rates would 


SALAZAR: Would you say the solution is development of job placement in the immedi- 

ate area of the Indian? 

SENECA: The Commissioner in his speech said one possible solution would be to do 

away with all reservations and scatter Indians to the four corners of the earth. 

KINLEY: There is not enough contact from our field agencies. There should be a few 

changes in defining the heads of households in prevocational schools because you may have 
a widow who could train. The program should recognize that "heads of family" --in the 
white society, not mine -- could mean both people must work to make a decent living. 

FLETCHER: You said there should be closer relationship with the employment office 

serving your reservation. We have designated nine employment- reservations to particularly 
work with tribal leaders and the Bureau bringing placement service to Indians. We find this 

most helpful. 


LOPEZ: In New Mexico we have about 18 Pueblo groups and two of the largest reserva- 

tions in the country. We have contact with all reservations and have assigned offices to deal 
directly with these programs. We keep in touch with our local offices to see that they're 
promoting programs in their areas. 

SENECA: To the people from Employment Security speaking about their involvement 

on different reservations in Arizona, Montana and New Mexico, I would like to pose this 
question. If you have people working that closely with the tribes, is it because you are under- 
staffed, the lack of job opportunity or lack of education that the unemployment rate is still 
highest among Indians? 


FLETCHER: It takes a long time. We're trying to understand each other and get 

answers. We observe, in agreement with Indian leaders, that reservations are somewhat 
isolated away from reasonably close urban areas. This is a problem in moving them. 

There's a great deal of internal problems involved. The move now is to try bringing industry 
on or close to the reservation while some Indian workers look ahead to leaving. 

The factor is the large percentage of unemployment of 40 to 60 percent. Montana is not 
peculiar in this. The majority of our seven reservations would be close to those figures; 
maybe even higher. To an extent, it has to do with seasonality. Our other workers for three 
or four months of the year experience unemployment. In summer months the picture changes. 
This contributes to low income for the reservations. 

FAUVER: Sometimes people like myself get caught up emotionally in this problem. 

My surveys show in January, February and March of 1966 over 70 percent unemployment. 

The longer I'm in it and the more I look at it, I think we must take each approach and utilize 
it as best we can. Bureau of Indian Affairs training and relocation must have good, strong 
follow-through. A young Indian family or individual worker taken to some large city must 
be trained with his family! We must understand that he and his whole family will be changing! 

In the area BIA office at Billings, their industrial development specialist told me that 
in the past 3 1/2 years there have been 76 industries started on reservations. I’m not sure 
of the number, but I don't believe we have more than four of them in Montana. Somebody 
said there were approximately 600, 000 Indians in the entire nation. We have roughly 30, 000 

of them in Montana and still only 3 or 4 industries. 

ELLIOTT: They're hiring a fellow from our reservation to work out of the CAP office, 

with Indians. 

SOBOLEFF: One basic truth is that whoever is unemployed is a real unfortunate indi- 

vidual. In my area there's a great deal of ill will by industry toward the native Alaskan due 
to the seasonal work they do. I speak primarily of the fisherman. He fishes at least one 
or two months of the year. Hence, when he asks for a job, the first question he hears is, 

" Are you a fisherman?" It brands him as an undesirable for long-term employment. There 
should be a way this individual could arrange with the employer for a month or two off for 
vacation or leave of absence. Then, after the season, he would return to his former posi- 
tion. Some fishermen work for Civil Service, and when fishing time comes, they take their 
month or so vacation. We need to develop relations between the employee- employer, be- 
cause at this point there's a definite rejection by the employer. 

CHAIRMAN: Can this individual in his fishing make more money than working at any 

other job? Is this why he should have time to fish? 

SOBOLEFF: Normally, the fishing season is not good, but fishing is in their blood and 

they go anyway. 

VIDOVICH: A guy goes to Haskell for two years. When he gets out, he goes to Reno 

and lias to crack a union. This holds many people back, because the unions are strong. 
CHOUGH: The question was posed about high Indian unemployment. This has never 

been answered . 


CHAIRMAN: Mr. Fletcher, in a roundabout way, tried to answer. Before World 

War II everything was handmade. Today, through mechanization, you do five times as much 
as you did. This is the whole picture in our area. Our people want to work seasonally, 
but there are no jobs for them. 

SENECA: Let me direct this to Mr. Fletcher. What are some of the problems you 

encounter in placing Indians? Is it because they don't want to move and leave the reservation? 
Most of your placement would be in urban areas. The towns that border the reservation are 
not the most receptive to Indians. They seem to be most receptive when the town will benefit 
financially. As to job placement, the peripheral towns are not receptive to Indians. 

Seasonal work is another problem. You might find work for an individual for two or 
three months, but after that, his time is spent on the reservation and work is hard to find. 
This is why, perhaps, industry must be brought to the reservation. For employment and 
job placement we look to Employment Security. They can probably do it, if we re willing 
to go to a metropolitan area. But on the reservations, jobs are very limited. Some 70 per- 
cent of our labor force is unemployed and your office might be able to place 5 percent. 

FLETCHER: You are very close to two basic problems. The "off seasons bring high 

unemployment . 

The Manpower and Development people have done an excellent job of delegating 
programs on a relatively quick basis outside reservations. That type of program must 
be submitted for team action. 

Presently we have three reservations involved in specific programs for training or em- 
ployment on the reservation. It takes two months or more for action on a pending 
program. Timing is completely off and is causing great difficulty in effecting a good 

program . 

HANS: The redevelopment area must be approved in Washington, simply because it's 
a national pool program . There are no State allocations in this activity . There was an 


appropriation this year of $25 million for redevelopment programs. All Indian reservations 
are eligible. I won't say two months is a typical delay. I think we're doing better than 
that. I must defend my own position in that respect, but it does take time. It takes time 
just to move paper. We don't know how this thing can be speeded up. Part of the answer 
is to anticipate a little further in advance when you need training. 

People must understand the management aspect. We have now, in every state, Manpower 
plans that involve all activities, not only under Manpower Training, but including Neighbor- 
hood Youth Corps Programs, Title V under Economic Opportunity Act and so on. They're 
being brought together in a coordinated, cooperative way. Planning starts now for the fiscal 
year beginning July. Every person with an interest in those who can benefit from this train- 
ing should take it upon themselves to see what is available. Now is the time to start thinking 
about next year! If you don't start thinking about next year until next year, it's too late! 
Employment service, education people, OEO; all would be interested in hearing your train- 
ing needs or what you'd like in your state plans. 

SALAZAR: Jess Fletcher said one of the bottlenecks of employment and training for 
Indians is that during the off season, it's difficult to approve proposals in a relatively short 
time. Your contention is that it isn't as long as we think, but regardless of that -- 

HANS: (Interrupting) -- It is too long! 

SALAZAR: In New Mexico we anticipated and didn't get approval. 

HANS: Are you back to the redevelopment program? You need to look at performance 

as to what was happening several years ago, because to the best of my knowledge, there's 
no extended delay in approval of #241 or development areas at present. If there is, Td 
appreciate having the information, because I can and will do something very specific about 



PLUMLEE: One of the biggest problems for our largest tribe in New Mexico is their 

reputation of undesirable work habits. We had two processors recruit workers in New 
Mexico. We mentioned Indians and they said '■No!" They said that they must run steady 
and Indians want the weekend off. They can't consider them, because they lose a crop while 

they’re off. 

SALAZAR: We have utilized thousands of Indians for employment, and while we’re 

plagued with the same problems at first, we’re in a position to correct them. 

PLUMLEE: We use many Indians but in other activities. There are jobs they can t 

adjust to. 

SENECA: Let me ask this, what kind of wages are they paid? Many times an Indian is 

hired at $1 . 00 to $1.25 an hour and less. Can he make a decent living working from 8 to 5 
at this salary with a family and dependents? He can go on welfare and work for more than 

$1.25 an hour! 

You’re talking about people with a different cultural background. Employment Security 
takes a person not used to this kind of thing, places him in an 8 to 5 work situation fee 
days a week, and thinks he's happy. This isn't true as far as an Indian is concerned. If 
he could be paid a wage that allowed a decent living amount to support his family, he could 

see real economic growth, and this thing might be alleviated. 

SALAZAR: What was your order from Wisconsin and what were the wages offered? 

PLUMLEE: A $1 . 50 up, with free housing, free transportation to the job and if they 

stayed on the job, free transportation home. The duration of the work varied but was 
generally a minimum of 12 weeks. 

SENECA: I’m not trying to criticize, but part of this meeting is to determine what 

permanent things can happen. We have jobs lasting three months or six months and they 




. , . l. - «. ,, rp ' rp falkinsf about 10-15 years and the life span of 

feed people for a period of time, but we re talking aouui y 

an individual. How much impact are we making there? 

PLUMLEE: You must meet present employer requirements and for lifetime jobs, you 

must start as we all did. 

SENECA: You must teach a man to 

work off the reservation. This is crucial. We can 

train an individual, but train him for what? To leave the reservation and work? He doesn’t 
want to leave the reservation! 

PLUMLEE: The question raised was why Employment Security cannot place mor 

Indians and we’re telling you some reasons we can’tplace Indians. 

LOPEZ: We’re forgetting one very important factor. I’m not trying to defend Employ- 

ment Security or anybody else, but we must work with the employer. The employers need 
education! I'm well aware of cultural difficulties since I’m Spanish, but we must try to 
educate the employer to understand cultural difficuldes. Many times they’re so busy they 
don’t want to be concerned with it. Through our Employer Relations Program, we keep 

this in front of him. But apparently, since we’re 

not an enforcing body, we don't know what 

to do. 


; On this point of undesirable work habits of Indians, we realize the employer 
is guided by basic economics. He must put out a product as cheaply as possible. First, we 
must educate Indians on how to work. Short-term employment oppormnities are helping do 
this. Perhaps what we need is a federal subsidy then to an employer to employ "X” number 
of Indians in his plant at a decent wage and with the understanding he not only provide for 
employment, but education. We spend tremendous amounts on welfare, so why not take 
some of this money and place it in federal subsidy to an employer who would take the Indians 
off welfare, create a job so they can make a living, and along with this, an educational pro- 



\ - W*' V* A WJ- 1 P^U-CV 1 ^ 'V M-- -L- , ULl >«.! ,«L-. 5 M-T . . ,J if 


SOBOLEFF: At this point, we'd have "X" number of Redskins on the payroll. 

They should have one or two guidance counselors. This would be an investment worth a 

great deal to business as well as to the working man and his family. They definitely need 
guidance and guidance personnel could get others involved to alleviate some problems. 

SALAZAR: I agree with you wholeheartedly. We’re talking about the language handicap. 

I've worked with Employment Security for 25 years and we're using more Indians than we 
ever did. We make them go to various job sites in the beginning for a better understanding 
between them and the employer. I'm talking about agricultural workers. 

CHAIRMAN: We always hear culture mentioned. Maybe an Indian won't work because 

of culture. I was born in 1930 and my granddad raised me. We had cattle and were better 
off than those on the reservation. There was World War I, the drought of the 1930' s and 
World War II. Inflationary prices hit all agricultural products. At that point the Indian was 
as well off as the non-Indian. But, from that point on, the non-Indian had borrowing power 
and the Indian didn't. The Indian was in the position he held in the 1930' s. He had horses, 
initiative, self-respect and was self-supporting. Today he's nothing but a welfare recipient 
because he didn't have borrowing power to compete with the non- Indians. 

SENECA: Everyone wants to run cattle or sheep and we haven't enough land to support 

everyone in agriculture, so we want job placement training. But, what will you do with the 
individual when he's trained? Where are you going to place him? Relocating Indians off re- 
servations hasn't been successful. 

The Navajo have quite a bit of industry on their reservation. The Crow Reservation 
has an electronics plant. The plant has only limited labor problems. They re able to function 
on a competitive basis. Most industries, and I don't mean buckskin and bead- type industry, 
are functioning competitively on reservations. Is the problem, then, lack of training or 
is it one of putting a person in a desirable place of work? 


SOBOLEFF: We're getting to specifics. We need to develop a liaison from the top 

man to the middle man to the problem. Here's where communication has broken down. 

If we don't understand from the top to the middle to the man who must earn his bread and 
butter, then our problems will continue to mount. We need communication! 

Would it be possible to have a liaison man in each village and on the payroll so he's 
not a volunteer worker? As a volunteer he must take care of himself too, but when he's 
on the payroll he does more. 

EVANS: We've tried to solve these things in the past, but when we devise a plan, it 

appears that through lack of communication we never seem to conclude as planned. The 
problem seems to be getting two cultures together. 

In Montana we still have Mexican and Spanish workers harvest our beets . At the same 
time we have quite a group of unemployed Indians on reservations. Yet, through years of 
experience, we find this works better. It would work the other way if the Indian laborer 
would work just as well. I don’t know whether it's tradition or just what it is. I've talked 
to a number of Indian people, including a girl in one of our employment offices. She's as 
good a steno as you can find. The Indian people who adapt to our culture are as good as 
anyone in skills. Yet, she said she could go back to the old Indian culture! She would go 
back! She feels perhaps her civilization is better than ours and maybe, in a way, we all 
envy that kind of life. But through progress, we have arrived at this point and there's no 
way for the Indian to go back. Somehow we must through education or psychology get Indian 
people to think the way we do in adapting themselves to our civilization. 

Does this entail doing away with reservations and absorbing them into the community? 

I don't know. 

CHAIRMAN: Back to culture . Last night I was on the town and had a lot of fun, but 

I can't relive last night. We must face facts realistically. At Ft. Belknap, we have an area 



that could possibly support between 40 or 50 families in cattle raising. There are 278 
families there. There isn't employment in Montana in agriculture. We're not in an area 
that's going to attract industry. Are we going to train these people and take them to jobs 
or bring the jobs to them? 

You hear of character loans to non-Indians. Well, the Indian never had that oppor- 
tunity! I'll go back to World War II when the non-Indian had credit for loans. You can drive 
to the reservation, up a little creek to a wonderful ranch site owned by a white man. But, 
the only way even a white man could build was through credit. If he didn't have credit; 
he didn't have a car to drive out there to look around! 

Work habits! I know people on Ft. Belknap of 25 or less who never did anything! They 
wouldn't know how to water and feed chickens! How can they get work habits? We know 
this thing is snowballing and if we don't find the answer now, it'll be worse later on. 

VICENTI: I 've been listening to what you people are saying and the problem is not 
only on my reservation; I guess it's all over. They want us to leave the Indian culture 
behind and take to modern society. I feel this is a handicap to students. According to 
reports from school, up to 4th grade the Indian children compete fairly well. Then they 
start slipping. Indian culture? 

The Fairchild Corporation manager said that when the Indians had a dance of some kind, 
absenteeism was way up on Monday or Tuesday. "They don't come back and when they do 
their excuse is, 'Well, that's my religion. ’ " As far as I'm concerned, it isn't. But that's 
their drawback and it holds them down, even on credit. 

One time I went to the bank and asked to borrow $100, He asked, "Where are you from?" 
I said, "Dolsey." He said, "Sorry." He told me to get a cosigner and I got one. I proved 
my credit is as good as anyone's. My credit is still good, because I kept it good. I can go 


back to that bank without a cosigner because my credit is good. You must have initiative 
to get credit. 

SALAZAR: Are you saying, Melvin, the Indian must foiget his culture and acquire 

the ways of the white man in order to progress? 

VICCENTI: I feel we can't change the old ones, but the youngsters, yes! 

OLD PERSON: A few years ago, Secretary Udall sent notices to the tribes to draw up 

10-year plans. One of these plans stressed employment and industry on my reservation. 

If the Blackfeet had money, we'd try to set up industries on our reservation and develop 

I agree with Mr. Seneca. When a man sees that a job is available for two or three 
months, and the pay scale is low, he's going back to welfare. People make the statement 
in our tribal council, "If I can't be assured of a job for more than three months, I'll stay 
on welfare." If people have assurance a job will be their livelihood they'll make every 
effort to stay with the job. 

On our reservation the majority aren't trying to stick with their old ways, because 
they're beginning to keep up with the world. We have a small sawmill on our reservation. 

Fifty men work at the sawmill and five men work in the timber. These five men were sent 
into the timber for logging without any training. They were unable to put out the logs required. 
The 50 men were laid off for four days, because there were no logs. The the contractor had 
his own men put out the logs. You should see the logs they put out! The men at the mill 
were told they were there for training. This was on-the-job training learning as they were 
working. As long as the logs came in they were working, so they made every effort. But 
these five men were put iQ^ie, timber without any kind of training and were trying to keep up 
but couldn't. They got so discouraged they gave up altogether. 



■ ) u . ■ * mi .n n r 

■mill I apr.Lf mn-j'wmii.MUA'm 

A man came and ran a pipeline through our reservation. "We're going to give 
Indians employment, " he said. But, because they had no training of this kind, they 
didn't know what to do. So this was an excuse for this man who was the head of 
that company. He said, "If you can't do the work, we lay you off." We'll use our 
own men." This is the conduct we face. 

FLETCHER: One reason I feel the Manpower Training Act has been so 
successful is the Act requires a Manpower advisory committee representing all 
segments of the area to make an assessment of Manpower needs, which eventually 
leads to training programs. When training programs are proposed, there's a 
requirement to have a training committee appointed. On the reservations there's 
no such requirement. This bothers us . There is little coordination. 

We panic and tell our senators to do something. Our Washington people 
keep telling us about the number of surplus workers on the reservations. But they 
talk about the worst kind of jobs; sugar beet jobs of three or four weeks duration 
at the most. It doesn't offer the Indian any encouragement. 

School authorities are hitting us hard. We haven't a boy who measures up to the 
metropolitan test on what they've completed in school. A sophomore might measure 
up to a 3rd grader! We tell our education people. It's the educators who aren't 
interested. They talk about culture. It's an excuse, not an answer. 


Relocation used to be the objective, but place them off the reservation and they’d beat 

the train back home. This hasn't worked at all. 

SALAZAR: I certainly agree with you on the assessment of availability of workers. 

They don’t consider the commitments made for workers to go to certain areas. 

HARRIS: On our reservation we have a working relationship with departments . We 

must realize we’re dealing with human beings. We've been trying to get people ready for 
employment who will be happy in their employment, are willing to go to work, and at the 

same time, not disturb those who are content with their own way of life. 

There’s a little bit of beet work on our reservation and two crews handle the stoop labor. 
I don’t think we should try to put Indians in such labor. They're better off as they are, if 


CHAIRMAN: Thirty years ago the homesteader raised a family about like our Indian 

families. The oldest boy was on the farm, but he had three or four younger brothers. 

They didn't make a living on this limited space. They realized that if they wanted to wear 
a suit, eat well and get income, they must leave the farm. This is something we must realize. 
We can't bring employment to all these people. We have a certain segment that couldn't be 
moved off the reservation, but the younger generation is perfectly capable of going to 



HARRIS: I disagree with this culture idea. I think a man could out in 8 hours a day 

and still retain his Indian culture . I don't know of another group of people anywhere that 

must throw away their culture. I resent this. I don't see any great honor in becoming a 
white man. 

CHAIRMAN: The white man manufactures the car and the Indian likes to drive the car 

The medium, then, is money and if you want to drive the car you must have income. 



ELLIOTT: The more educated they are, the more mobile they are. You can't send 

these people out unless they have a certain level of education. 

SENECA: Mr. Chairman, you said a young person should be able to leave the reserva- 

tion to work and make a decent living. Let me put this question to you, how anxious are 
you to leave? 

CHAIRMAN: I'm not anxious to, but I could if I had to. I worked in hardrock mines 

for years. I'm half Scot, quarter Irish, and quarter Indian, but they call me an Indian. 

Not Irish or Scotsman, but Indian! It took me $80, 000 to operate last year, but I didn't make 
much money and I can't get credit without a cosigner. I am an Indian! 

SENECA: An individual who wants self-identity also wants to be identified with a group. 

He will not work where he's unhappy. I'm from a reservation in New York, but I live in 
the Midwest. I still go back East, because it's not out of my mind. I came West to get an 
education, but it's in my mind to work on the reservation for that's where my people are. 

CHAIRMAN: To go a little further with my point; when I came back, the reservation -- 

maybe 90 percent to 95 percent -- was leased by non- Indians. As long as opportunity is 
there, we'll be there, but someday we'll be crowded out ... 

SENECA: (Interrupting) They're going to fight before they're crowded out! 

FLETCHER: We were bom and raised in Helena. When our boy was out of college, 

he couldn't leave Helena fast enough and is in Portland now. You'll find on all reservations 
some younger Indians who want to become part of the white man's world. Ninety percent of 
the Indians want to maintain their culture, but we should be finding out who wants to do what. 

The reservation represents so much unemployment. Figures go to Washington -- this 
reservation has 3000 -- and there aren't ,3 sometimes, because it's all shooting in 
the dark! The Bureau, OEO, the education people and others are giving us a real bad 


■ uu MU!'i''<?Bm^» L mu." 





HANS: If a man is sitting on a reservation, content where he is, not looking for work, 

he can't very well be classed as unemployed unless he has desire for employment. 

ELLIOTT: They don't want to be employed! 

EVANS: I don't think most white men want to see the Indian give up his culture. We 

enjoy it as much as the Indian. That isn't the solution at all. 

The idea is to absorb them into the economic picture and the reservation is the barrier. 
But we have Irish communities and other of different nationalities, and there's no reason 
they can't remain an Indian community. 

HORSEMAN: I thought I wouldn't speak, but I don't like this talk of losing the Indian 

culture. That's the last thing Indians call their own. When the white man came we didn t 
ask him to change. We let him keep his culture. 

Discrimination is sometimes a problem, as with credit. A bunch of us were taken to 
California to a white community where colored people are not allowed -- Inglewood and 
Hawthorn. We were well accepted. 

LOPEZ: One plant in New Mexico had good work attendance because they made adjust- 

ments. The white man has Lincoln's Birthday, Thanksgiving and all that. This employer 
has been in operation about five years and is trying to adjust to the significant holidays the 
Indian wants. This is a very good answer. They give Indians other time off, instead of, 
say, Lincoln's Birthday, which doesn't mean much to him. This has helped keep the Indian 
on the job every day. He's entitled to this time off just like anyone else. Jews have their 
own New Year's or Christmas, so the Indian is entitled to the same. 

CHAIRMAN: Like Mr. Horseman, I feel we haven't come up with a lot of suggestions, 

but there must be a starting point and this is the way we find a solution. 

Excerpted From: 




Angus Wilson 

Chairman, Nez -Perce Tribe of Idaho 
(Lapuai, Idaho) 

Lewiston, Idaho 


Orval Packard 

Advisor, Office of Farm Labor Service 
Washington, D. C. 

Other Participants 

George T. Earett 

Area Employment Assistance Officer 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Portland, Oregon 

Sam Deloria 

Assistant Director, ICAP 
University of South Dakota 
Vermillion, South Dakota 

David S. Hall 

Chairman, Board of Trustees 
Umatilla Tribes 
Adams, Oregon 

Arthur T. Manning 

Chairman, Sho shone Paiute 
Owyhee, Nevada 

Martin J . Sampson 

Representative for Secretary-Treasurer 
Snoqualmie Tribe 
Tacoma, Washington 

Tandy Wilbur 


Swinomish Tribal Community, or, Skagit Tribe 
LaConner, Washington 

Allen (Donald) Wilson 

Chairman, Community Action Program 
Leech Lake Reservation (Chippewa) 
Ball Club, Minnesota 

Frank Wright 

Representative of Tulalip Tribe 
Tacomaha, Washington 


CHAIRMAN: We have several tribes represented here and I would like each of you 
to express your opinions. We don't want to lose the objective of this conference. We'll 
attempt to confine our remarks to the field of employment needs. 

PACKARD: What we're trying to get from the conference is your ideas and experiences 
on Indian unemployment. Unemployment is probably the biggest problem facing the American 
Indian today. Give us ideas and we'll incorporate them into a report which, when wrapped 
up, can perhaps put emphasis on some problems. 

CHAIRMAN: To guide this broad subject along we might think of the two words: desire 
and opportunity. Do we have opportunity in the employment field today? There are opportunities, 

but is there desire? Conversely, you sometimes have desire, but are there opportunities? 

HALL: On our reservation, which is a farming area, there have been many recent 
changes. People were able in the past to obtain seasonal jobs in farming, but it's difficult 
now because farming has become mechanized. They're operating on a larger scale. Besides 
wheat, they raise green peas for canning. It’s almost 100 percent mechanized now and 1 
pea combiner replaces 7 men. 

Our people must realize they must have training to obtain jobs. Common farm labor 
is going out of the picture. We must get more people interested in skills. A college, de- 
signed to fit the needs of the community, is going to help our area people. 

We have problems with our people. We haven't been able to solve why they don't stick 
to jobs. Why they don't hold jobs when they do have a chance. Sometimes, for a celebration 
on the reservation, they'll quit a job to attend and then go back and find no job. 

At an ordnance depot near Pendleton they were offering good pay for common labor. 

We sent 19 boys. We might have four or five still there I I don't know why they won't stick 
to these jobs. Some take farm jobs which actually pay less. We just don't understand it. 

We know some don’t have family responsibilities and still live with their parents who 
support them. Probably, it’s easier than earning their own keep. We don't know how to 
get them away from their parents . 

BARETT: I came to listen and learn, but I’ll make a few observations. The Indians 

of the Pacific Northwest are blessed with more job opportunities than any group of Indians 
in the United States. But one of the biggest problems we’re confronted with is their irre- 
sponsibility to duties for an employer. As a consequence, many employers are reluctant 
to hire Indians because they leave their jobs when they’re needed. Many Indians work year 
round, though, and this is happening more often. But we must consider, for a moment, 
the culture of the people and what they did prior to the white man. 

As you know, we were a communal people. I say "we, ” because I’m an Indian, too. 
What we had, we shared. No one went hungry as long as someone had something to eat. 

To a degree, we’re trying to perpetuate this, but in the white man’s world, it won t work 
any more. It is possibly more prevalent among Indians on reservations. This communal 
life and culture disappear slowly. There’ s a certain price to pay for cultural pattern 
change and it won’t happen overnight. Only with more education, direction, counseling 
and training will we be able to whip this thing. I think you’ll all agree that change is taking 
place. They've come to realize that the solution to their problem is education of youth. 

We are blessed in the Northwest with some of the finest training institutions. More 
and more of our young people are taking advantage of vocational training. You 11 hear 
more about a prevocational training course we instituted in Seattle for Washington Indians 
only. As a consequence of this action, the Bureau now sponsoring its own prevocational 


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How can we whip this thing? It’s going to take leadership and tremendous help from 
our Indian leaders . We must point out to our young people the necessity of preparing for 
employment and the necessity to stick to the job once they're employed. 

Another thing hurts us tremendously. You’d be surprised at the standards of educa- 
tion we’re getting from schools. You must understand that our older people haven't had 
the benefits of education and, consequently, don't appreciate the need for education. There 
is not a climate for education maintained in the home. These are factors delaying advance- 
ment of our people. Too many applications come over my desk from students who just 
"got by" in high school. They're "D" students, given social promotions. Finally, after 
occupying a chair in the schoolroom, they're graduated. Most are ill-prepared to take 
advantage of opportunities or training for the simple reason they lack standards in their 
education. I think we must, as parents, stand with our children and insist on decent 
standards of achievement in high school# 

We must impress upon our young people that high school is possibly the most important 
time in their lives. If they're poor achievers in high school, they're going to be poor 
achievers in employment. The doors of opportunity to higher education and training are 
closed as a consequence. Parents must insist on good attendance and achievement. 

These disciplines prepare our youth for training and higher education. It’s not lack 
of intelligence . We have definitely proven that the average Indian boy or girl has just as 
much innate intelligence and ability, but is not working up to potential. To a degree, 
parents are at fault. We must start in the home and inoculate our youth with proper atti- 
tudes on education and training. 

Job opportunities for the untrained person are becoming less and less . Farm labor 
is about four percent of the total job opportunities we have. Everything is going toward 



services and skills. We can’t close our eyes to these things. We must work to encourage 
our youth. 

As Commissioner Bennett pointed out, the older people have their way of life. It s 
too late to do much with them but keep them happy, and let them have the best things in 
life we can give them. This generation growing up is the one we must work with. 

CHAIRMAN: You brought out a few provocative items some people may not agree 


SAMPSON: The Snoqualmie tribe has no reservation. We’re on the outside and there 

have been Snoqualmie people on public domain all their lives . A few Snoqualmie Indians 
are under treaty, but since they never had a reservation under that treaty, many stayed in 
public domain. Some got allotments and are doing what they can for themselves. For a 
time, the programs of the Bureau did not reach them, but today they are. 

Circumstances sometimes create lack of desire, lack of determination for an education. 
I’m a good example. I’m a 1908 graduate of the Choctaw school. I attended the Hampton 
School of Virginia for two years and had the best of training. I took a jol^as an engineer 
in 1913. I had a higher work rate than the average person from our school. Then I left, 
because I didn’t have the ’’stick- to-itiveness” for that kind of life. I took it easy, worked 
in the mills and held every kind of job even as clerk in a hardware store . I tell you this 
to follow up what Mr. Barett said. 

I was very lucky. I married in late years and had two children. When my son got 
through high school, we didn’t have enough money for him to go to the University of 
Washington. So the boy went right back to high school again to take subjects he hadn't taken 
before. He was determined to get ahead. Finally, he attended the University. We had 
some money, but by the time he finished we were $3, 000 in the hole. Today, he's in 

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Fargo, North Dakota as an expert on missiles. He was determined to get an education. 
Continue training programs for Snoqualmies and, by golly, I think we'll make it! 

Swinomish is gradually growing. In 1928 there were four graduates. We have about 
50 now who finished high school. We have two college graduates. By sticking to it, by work- 
ing at it, by telling the parents to get in and help their children get that education, we en- 
courage them. I think I'm just echoing Mr. Barett. I didn't say anything to you. 

WILBUR: The problem of seasonal employment among our people seems to be preva- 


I go along with George Barett on the theory about Indian culture and heritage. They 
once had everything they needed and wanted without competing to survive. Time was of no 
importance to them. The only thing they worried about in life was whether it was winter or 
summer, dark or daylight. We sometimes get a little out of patience and in too much of a 
hurry to see transition within only 200 years. These heritages leave the Indian with a 
desire deep down in his heart to be with other people, to feast with other people and associate 
with them. Employment hasn't yet become a real part of his life. Until we get this across 
to him, we'll always have troubles and we'll always have problems. 

One way is to launch a program of education and training. I think it's absolutely 
necessary that everybody involved understand what they're trying to do as well as under- 
stand the kind of people they're dealing with. I'm thinking specifically of those who teach 
our Indian children. The LaConner School system is about 15 minutes' walk from the reser- 
vation. It's a predominantly white school, with Indian children mostly in elementary. They 
drop out from the 7th through 12th grades. Because the teachers live next to the reservation, 
they truly believe they know all about the Indian. They don't believe it's necessary to go to 
a workshop on Indian culture. The government has provided funds for such orientation, 
but many of the teachers never go. I doubt very seriously if these people truly know what 

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makes an Indian what he is. If anybody is to teach or inject a new culture, he must know 
all about the student and his background. 

We have instigated help from the government through OEO to have a remedial teacher 
specifically assigned to look after our slow Indian students. A counselor who is an Indian 
will work with Indian families. We'll urge these teachers to go to schools, seminars, 
conferences and workshops to learn more about the Indian and Indian culture. Only in 
this manner can we expect and hope to improve the education of our Indian children. 

We have many dropouts on our reservation, people who never went beyond 8th grade, 
who are widows or estranged. They have a small family and no income, training or educa- 
tion. They are the real problem in my locality. I see it on other reservations, too. Insti- 
gate MDTA among these people, get them interested, because they're capable of doing much 
of the work for which people are hired in their communities. Probably, they're now on 
some type of welfare, but this person can become employable. Seasonal employment, like 
farming and the fish canneries, is all right, but not substantial. These same people could 
work as housekeepers in motels, but they need training, 

CHAIRMAN: I went to government school in Riverside, California. I'll never forget 

the employment man Mr. La Blatta of the Portland office. He would address us and say, 

"A day's work for a day's pay. Never let it be said an Indian is lazy. Let's show the world 
we can take our place." 

WILSON: One of the most exciting things on any Indian reservation happened on our 

reservation in Minnesota. I'm a member of the Chippewa Community Action Program. 
We've been in existence under the Bureau since the Organization Act of 1934. In that 
space of 30 years we haven't been given much opportunity to express ourselves or to en- 
courage talents of the reservation. But, our people now have opportunity and a different 
outlook on life, because they were given another chance. We've exposed a lot of talent on 



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our reservation. We have more people employed than ever in the history of our tribe. 

It's remarkable how a group of Indian people can change in such a short time. 

We have an image of being an "Indian problem, " but there's been a " white problem ." 

I usually criticize by saying "white tape, " instead of red tape, because red tape infers it's 
the red man's problem. Our OEO program is needed far more than any program ever 
made available to our people. People have a fear of leaving the reservation. Therefore, 
the Indian is said to be irresponsible, without motivation, and they classify him as lazy. 
Under Economic Opportunity the image of our people has changed to one of an ambitious 
people. Letters have gone to Washington with great reactions to this program. 

This is the type of program we need more of on our reservations, to bring out talents 
and educate the people . People put into urban areas in a different state in a different en- 
vironment have a great fear. It's a challenge many don't take and I don't blame them. 

They want something near home, something to help upgrade them, so they fit into this 

We have a Neighborhood Youth Program, designed for dropout students and we have Job 
Corps, also basically for dropout students. I think we often try a remedy too late. We 
should start before they drop out, assisting children in high school and try to provide jobs 
for them. This MIC program is the most wonderful thing that could happen to school children 
on the reservation. It gives them a feeling they're doing something to help themselves, 
rather than having somebody do it for them. It gives them character and a sense of re- 
sponsibility. We must teach young people to stay in school. We must try to help them 
while they're in school, so they can meet the needs of school some parents can't provide. 

We tried to employ some of the kids who are 17 and 18 years old, so they could buy 
their clothing and other needs. After we hired a dozen or so, Washington gave us a directive 
saying any future hiring must include ladies. So the kids had to go back to what meager 

help their parents were able to provide. Some of these programs are really good but some- 
times they seem to do things in reverse. Some should be more flexible so they fit the 
needs of the individual community. These training programs would then be far more 
i successful than they've been in the past. Any Manpower Training should be designed for 

training on the reservation, rather than pulling people off to design a new life for them. 
DELORIA: Mr. Wilson made reference to a training program at Leech Lake. This 

i program is very imaginative and the type bureaucrats encourage people toward, but make 

difficult for them to do. It took about 10 months to get this program going, because so many 
j agencies were involved. It's very difficult to get a new idea across to some of these 

bureaucrats if it doesn't follow patterns they usually follow. Maybe the Labor Department 
i could have an "Office of New Ideas, " or something. 

Everyone agreed it was a good program, but because of the relationship between MDTA 
and various State agencies, they found it difficult to move on this idea. The local office of 

Employment Service was very cooperative. Then they found problems up the chain of 
command. The State Vocational Education Department didn't know whether to approve, 
because they had no guidelines and they were afraid to make a decision. 

The relationship between the Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training and the unions was 
very confusing. All felt the unions should be involved even though u». . part of Minnesota is 


| not particularly "strong union. " The problems Leech Lake and White Earth had in develop- 

in or this program show the problems tribes throughout the country have as they deal with 

the labor situation. When you have a special occasion, a special situation, or a new idea, 


j it' s very difficult to pin someone down and either get action or get turned down. Many 

tribes have leaders who are inexperienced but capable in dealing with bureaucrats. They 
get discouraged as they're shuffled from office to office. As a result, they won't push 


through a good idea. 



These are some things the Labor Department could be thinking about if they're inter- 

MANNING: We're fortunate to have a public school located on our reservation and 


Indian children from both states attend our high school. The most valuable addition to 
our high school was a full-time counselor. Counseling programs in Bureau schools and 
schools many Indians attend should be stepped up and extended to junior high level. 

Sometimes the dropout ratio is high because of training and environment. When he 
encounters a problem others solve, the Indian would rather remain silent and quietly drop 


A friend once remarked, "I get upset with some of my Indian youngsters. With all the 
scholarships and training programs, I run around encouraging youngsters to follow through 
on them and they answer: I'm happy in what I'm doing; I work on a ranch. It is something 

I like and know how to do, and I'm not working under a lot of pressure. I like rodeoing on 
weekends and to compete in something I like to do . " He laughed and added, Here I am 
trying to get him to enter training in Los Angeles or San Diego and have him get ulcers 
before he's middle-aged." 

Some of the older group we can’t change, but working with our youngsters and stepping 
up counseling programs will be of benefit. 

WRIGHT: We are along the coast and in a way, Indian people there are unique while 

quite the same. They work independently. They live by fishing, gathering berries, and so 
on. They're not under supervision. After doing this for centuries, it s real difficult for 
them to work under a supervisor or to punch the almighty time clock. This creates a real 


Some of our people continue to fish. They have pride in being self-sustaining and 
maintaining their own fishing equipment. By their own income they sustain themselves. 




To go into a situation whore they work under a supervisor is real difficult. The United 
States should prove to the Indian that the goal is not to destroy Ills culture and heritage, 
but to enrich his way of life and allow him status as an Indian. This would stimulate his 

desire to achieve. 

If employed with other Indians on a project, they wouldn't feel they were leaving their 

people. When aware of the "Great Society" and accustomed to it, then, naturally, they 

want to become part of it. Then they can see they're not puppets of a new culture, but are 

actually achieving and bettering themselves. 

Mr. Bennett suggested Individual assistance as desirable in working with Indian people. 

I feel this is so. Individual counseling is a great advantage. 

1 have one other thought. Often there are long lines in employment security buildings 
where many Indian people at one time or another seek employment. Sometimes they wait in 
line for hours and find they're in the wrong line, and go through the procedure again. They 
go through this procedure once and they've had enough "assistance" through agencies. They 

go back to jobs that are available but are not desirable. 

CHAIRMAN: In summarizing our discussion, I think we're agreed that parental re- 

sponsibility, better education and better working relations between agencies are objectives 

to be attained. 

Excerpted From: 





Other Participants 

Mrs. Abigail J. Basile 

Overton James 

Walter Judd 
Fitz Lewis 

Oscar Archiquette 

Vice Chairman 

United Tribe of Wisconsin 

Oneida, Wisconsin 

Donald G. Huntley 

District Manager , 

Wisconsin State Employment Service 
Green Bay, Wisconsin 

Counseling Supervisor 

Missouri Division of Employment Security 

Kansas City, Missouri 

Chickasaw Nation 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

Oregon State Employment Service 
Salem, Oregon 

Chickasaw Tribe 
Madill, Oklahoma 

Edwin Martin 

Arvid Miller 


Stockbridge Munsee 
Bowler, Wisconsin 

CAP Director - OEO 
Bowler, Wisconsin 

Benedict Quigno Secretary 

Saginaw Chippewa Tribe of Michigan, and 
Michigan State Commission on Indian Affairs 
Mt. Pleasant, Michigan 

Art Icy Skonandoro Legislative Representative 

Great Lake (Wise.) Inter Tribal Council 
West De Pere, Wisconsin 

Rev. Mitchell Whiterabbit Tribal Representative 

Wisconsin Winnebago Tribe 
Black River Falls, Wisconsin 

CHAIRMAN: Before we give suggestions and express our ideas about employment for 
Indians, I'd like to say it's been my experience, at various meetings, that some Indians 
have been rather backward about speaking freely of their problems. They have reason -i 
and, of course, some are educationally handicapped. We often prefer to not say much for 
fear of making mistakes. If I make mistakes, don't be afraid to correct me and put me on 
the right track. I'm here to do the best I can for our Indian people. 

HUNTLEY: Oscar said he might make mistakes. I've never worked with a representa- 
tive of any Indian tribe who is more dedicated and more sincere in his efforts to do something 
in this area of employment problems . 

In Green Bay, we have at least a fairly decent understanding between our agency, the 
Employment Service, and the Oneida and Stockbridge-Munsee tribes. We work closely 
with them. A real effort is being made by everyone to get action programs going. 

We've done quite a bit under Manpower Development Training. We had a very small 
problem with acceptance of Indian workers by local employers. There may be some 
discrimination. Some feel the Indian won' t work a 40-hour week. They have problems in 
this regard, but it seems to be disappearing rapidly. 

We have Indians in training right now under MDTA and under regular school vocational 
programs. We have employers in the Green Bay area who are already committed to hiring 
these people if they successfully complete the course. We've had pretty good acceptance 
from the employers and it's getting better all the time. 

The real lack is probably communications, and I think Oscar pointed it up when he 
mentioned Indians have been too reticent in speaking up about their own problems. 

It hasn't always been easy for us to get together. We always have evening meetings. 

I don't think I ever attended a daytime meeting, except for this one. The reason is that 


most tribal leaders hold down full-time jobs and this is an additional load for them. Their 
tribal activities almost of necessity, are geared to evening hours and this gets complicated 
in that everyone else meets at night, too. You find yourself being stretched too thin. We 
overlook this as a problem, but I think it is. 

Transportation, of course, has become another problem. It was you, Oscar, who told 
me that if you see a car along the roadside in Green Bay with a tire being changed, the odds 
are pretty good this car belongs to an Oneida, because they have a real transportation 
problem We can't overlook this. Most of us enjoy ownership of a car and we look upon 
it not as a luxury any more, but as a necessity. I don't know what I'd do without a car. 

If we try to get Indians into our office for counseling or testing, we find it very difficult. 
Project this problem to arriving at a job every day and it becomes serious. Things that 
aren't problems to the general labor force become a real problem in dealing with Indian 
communities. We don't like to say they're problems; we think they're challenges. 

I always encourage Indian leaders to»get in touch with me personally when they have a 
problem. Maybe this is the answer to solving some problems. This is where reticence 
comes in. Many times we're able to help or some other agency is able to help, but we 
don't know what you want. We have a hard time with communications. 

Now is the time when we Indians must begin teaching the white man as well as haviqg 
the while man teach us. We must learn to teach each other. I say again, don't be afraid to 
come out with your problems. This may be the last opportunity. They want to know our 

There ^s some discrimination in Indian employment. The employment office in 
Green Bay will send a man to a place, maybe a paper mill or some other plant, and they'll 
want to know if he has a diploma. They don't hire him if he hasn't got a high school diploma. 



A majority of Oneidas don't have a high school diploma. Then the Employment Office says 
there's no need for a high school diploma for the kind of work they want you to do there. 

You don't need a high school education to push a two-wheel truck! 

In my area, an Indian is not given chance for advancement; perhaps, because he's an 
Indian and because he lacks necessary education. There may be other reasons. On the 
other hand, my grandson worked 17 years and was given a gold watch not long ago, because 
he had no accidents while driving a semi-trailer truck. Such success needs consideration 
along with the failures. 

The Employment Office sends out Indians, but that doesn't mean they're going to get 
a job. Some are only registered. There are a number of Indians who have lost faith in 
registering at the Employment Office. They feel there's no use. Industries should do 
away with this idea of asking for a high school diploma if they really want to help their 

There are places in Green Bay which show discrimination in employment. We're often 
given work the white man doesn't want. Some statements I'm making perhaps hurt the 
feelings of the white man, but to understand the programs regarding Indians, we must 
bring this out in plain words. 

I should read part of "American Indians and the Federal Government. " Under 
"Economic Conditions," it reads: 

"Although the situation differs markedly from one reservation to another -- influenced 
by the geography and economy of each region and by each tribe's own history -- there are 
certain problems that are nationwide in character. These might be summed up as follows: 

The need for more education and training opportunities to enable Indians to compete 
in the job market for skilled and professional work. 

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"Lack of productive land to provide an adequate livelihood in farming or 
ranching for the expanding population. 

"Scarcity of industrial and commercial jobs nearby. 

"Shortage of capital to start new enterprises. 

"Under-utilization of land for such potential income -producing purposes as develop- 
ment of recreation attractions for tourists, leasing for urban development (particularly 
in the Southwest), industrial enterprises and lumbering as an industry." 

This should give us ideas. 

LEWIS: May I ask the lady one question? How about your relocated people? Do 
they stay or is there a tendency to go back to their home area? 

MRS. BASILE: We aren't a relocation center. About the only thing we've been 
involved with in labor mobility is the program where southern Missouri farmers were 
brought to northern Missouri farms. 

QUIGNO: The greatest need of the Saginaw -Chippewa is to raise our economic 
base by attracting industry. We're in a fortunate situation in Michigan as the economic 
climate and potential are very good, particularly for electronics. Increased efforts 
in agency assistance is hereby requested as sorely needed. Feasibility seems 

In this technological age, you need a high school diploma before you're hired. 

This is a serious defect and needs to be changed. It's unnecessary bias. 


Concerning Michigan tribes, the severely handicapped are the nonreservation 
groups. They have all the problems reservations have with the added difficulty of no 
organization to get needed programs. This problem remains unattended and, with a 
low educational base, it will remain. 

HUNTLEY: Mr. Quigno, you mentioned diploma again, and Oscar mentions it to 
me about once a week. Do you feel this policy is established from a discriminatory 
point of view? Does industry feel it's a realistic policy? 

QUIGNO: Well, they must. It's an unwritten policy I think. For example, I work 
in a chemical plant and I know they haven't hired an Indian or non -Indian for a long time 
if he didn't have a high school diploma. It isn't a good idea, really. 

Our area could use another industry. We think an industry could be relocated and 
be very profitable, considering the proximity of raw materials and local manpower. 

WHITERABBIT: I represent a tribe which is not a reservation group and, of 
course, unemployment is one of our major problems. When I think of the problem, I 
usually think in terms of improving the individual. Read a newspaper and look at all 
the jobs available. There are plenty of jobs available all over the country, but it's hard 
to find the right person for the job. This area concerns me. I've been to all kinds of 
Indian conferences and we talk about mutual problems. I think much of the problem lies 
with us Indians. We need to improve ourselves. We need to create motivation in our 
people. For example in this conference we're centering our attention on the individual. 
We need to improve the individual totally, not only preparing him to assume his place 
in industry or in the labor market, but to prepare him in other areas. 

Many of our people are trained and employed, but on the other hand, many are not 
trained and lack the desire to improve themselves. 



Another tiling that vitally interests me is education. Educate our people, so they can 
assume their rightful places in society. 

MARTIN: We have the same problems and maybe more. About the only resource we 
have is timber and jobs are practically nil. Some of our men are driving as much as 40 
miles, one way, to their jobs every day, which is quite a problem in itself. Drive that far 
and, by the end of the week, your expenses have taken the biggest part of your pay. 

We've been trying for years to change something. Our land is divided into two different 
categories. A small portion is our reservation and the balance is Farm Security land. If 
the Farm Security land was released so that proceeds from it earned by our people could 
revert to our community or tribal fund, we'd have money to at least operate and, perhaps, 
develop a little something on our own. So far, we haven't had any luck. Maybe you're 
familiar with the situation. When they were buying this land they ran out of money in one 
department of government, so they took money from another department to finish paying 
for it. In the process, the Farm Security Administration took title to the land with the 
understanding we would eventually get it. When the papers were completed, they were put 
before Congress to declare it a reservation. It never happened because our white neighbors 
decided it was a paradise for hunting and fishing. Some clubs put pressure on their 
congressmen and others to defeat any bill we might present. 

We have quite a few young people, like my own children, and our land base is so small 
we don't have enough to accommodate all of them, because we've been forbidden use of this 
Farm Security land. 

In a self-help housing program, our young people could have building material if they 
had this land to build on. and instead of paying rent, they could pay on loans. Eventually 



they’d own a home and I think all of them would like to return to the reservation. They’re 
like all Indians, natural country people and not city people. 

CHAIRMAN: Do you think an industry would be a great help? 

MARTIN: We've been trying to get one for several years, either on the reservation 
or close-by. A group worked wi*h us and would cooperate further. They'd furnish land 
and a certain amount of money to put up a building if somebody would locate there. It would 
be within reasonable traveling distance of the reservation. It would be a wonderful thing, 
because we don't have employment. 

HUNTLEY: Do I understand, Mr. Martin, that you could go into industrial development 
on the reservation portion of your land, but this Farm Security land would require clear 
title before you could even consider an industry there? 

MARTIN: Mr. Miller can answer that question. 

MILLER: That's right, you must clear title before you can use the land for industrial 
development of any nature. 

CHAIRMAN: Do you have figures on the number who could be employed if an industry 
did locate there? 

MARTIN: We only have a little over 300 enrolled members, but we have many young 
people who have grown, married and moved out. Perhaps 50 or 60 could be employed. 

There would be no supply problem, but of course, there's the fact many don t have diplomas. 

JAMES: Our situation in Oklahoma is unique in that we don't have reservations. 

However, we do have labor problems, The chief reasons for unemployment are lack of 
education and marketable skills. We're all aware of the studies, research, and surveys 
regarding Indian problems. Inevitable conclusions point to education as the key to solving 


these problems. It's pretty hard to educate a man who's head of a household and has a 
family. You can't do it. Our big problem is unemployment of heads of households. The 
man between 25 and 45 in the prime of his working years who doesn't have skills or 
education is, therefore, seriously handicapped. 

The Chicasaws are fairly well assimilated and are a small tribe. Our biggest need is 
for industry to locate within the proximity of the majority of our people. We've earmarked 
$100, 000 in tribal funds to offer as a loan to any triple -A industry locating within the area 
and employing a percentage of our people. 

One of the more serious problems is our urban Indian living in cities. They have real 
problems • 

SKENANDORE: I think the problems are pretty universal. 

The Indian problem, nationally, is the result of previous administration policy which 
controlled educational levels. The Indians were placed in Government schools to derive 
an education. If we had recognized the education problem 25 to 50 years ago and had them go 
to public schools at that time, we'd have more total assimilation today. The more educational 
opportunities you have, whether it be vocational or on-the-job training, the better it'll be. 
Tradesman are scarce and the only Wisconsin Indian tradesmen are those who struck out on 
their own. Many Indians who leave the reservation don't return once they've obtained a skill 
or an education. Once they develop skills in "educated" pay brackets, they're reluctant to 
return. Until some development allows them to attain a decent living standard, your employ- 
ment problem will continue. 

CHAIRMAN: A good businessman will always work with facts and figures and we lack 
figures. Surveys of labor forces are needed. 




WHITERABBIT: This is what we did in our tribe. We went to the Social Security 
Administration for a survey grant and got $15, 000 to make a self-study of our tribe. The 
report just came out. We have accurate figures on education, employment, housing and 
everything, so we have a true picture of ourselves. 

The people we're concerned with are those who probably live in the lower strata of 
our Indian society. They lack education and haven't developed skills. Perhaps I'm a little 
too radical on this, but, because many are under some type of aid program, why couldn't 
they be required to attend some kind of school? This should be mandatory. It seems that 
when we present them with opportunities to improve themselves they don't come forward 
and take advantage of it. 

QUIGNO: The law should be changed to allow BLA services to nonreservation Indians. 

SKENANDORE: How do you interest the individual in involving himself in an available 

Many programs go by the wayside because we can't get the individual interested. We 
must keep in mind that the individual must be paid to maintain and support his family during 
the time he's training. We must admit that often it's not the Indian's fault. It'c not that he's 
lazy that he doesn't participate. It's because they must think about supporting a family and 
meeting obligations to which they feel a greater responsibility, than participating in a 
program. This should be studied. Putting the individual on the bare existence which he 
receives under unemployment does not provide incentive . 

MRS. BASILE: Money isn't always the answer. We had a case with a man wanting 
training that wasn't available in Kansas City. He was to be paid a subsistence allowance 
for himself for training away from Kansas City. With his family allowance, it would've 
amounted to $95 a week. This was almost double what he'd ever made in his lifetime. He 


was to receive training for six 

months, but didn't want to leave his family to take training. 

Money isn’t always the problem. 

We have a terrific dropout rate in our MDTA program in Kansas City and these men 
get $35 a week plus $5 for dependents. Some are receiving more than they ever made in 

their life, but they’ll drop out. 

HUNTLEY*. Mr. Skenandore said there should be a more fully supported family for 
a man in training. Mr. Whiterabbit said you can give them too much. You must have a 

balance point. You can’t go too far . 

WHITERABBIT: I wonder if increasing the school age requirement would help. In 
Wisconsin, the minimum age for dropping out of school is 16. 

HUNTLEY: It will be 18 very shortly. Would that help? 

SKENANDORE: I don't believe so. The dropout occurs anywhere in the high school 

bracket. If you put him into vocational training, the earlier the better. This is where 
courts should put them instead of putting them in the penal system. Placed under police 
jurisdiction, there's no provision they must achieve a goal. When sentenced, they should 
be required to take development training. It seems we wait until they get into an institution 
before we think about training. Their first contact with the law and the penal system should 

require some type of development training. I mean for non-Indians, too. 

This is one form. Another would be for the individual who may never contact any kind 
of law enforcement. To gain support we must have a local people and the parent interested. 
The average parent, a product of the old educational system, is on an 8th grade level. Until 
we can say everybody has a high school education, these people just won’t comprehend what 
thls training will do for the future of the child. We must think in terms of reaping the harvest 
in another generation. We must begin educating the total population to get individuals 





HUNTLEY: Oscar, could I recap just a bit? 

This is what I have. Number 1, education including a strong effort at motivation. 

Two, lowering some industrial hiring standards. Three, location of industry m immediate 
areas. Four, education or training of families. Five, BIA should be restructured to offer 
services to off- reservation Indians. 

CHAIRMAN: Surveys should be made by agencies. It's very important to have figures 
to work with. 


I T 

(See Call to Order) 



Indian Services Bureau 
University of Utah 
Salt Lake City, Utah 

"Maximum Participation of Indians in Developing Their Programs 


(See Panel IB) 

TOASTMASTER: Our luncheon speaker today is Ralph Keen. I should tell you 
a few things about him. He's a graduate of Haskett Institute. Has a Bachelor of Arts 
Degree in education with a major in history. He served in both the Army and Air Force 
and is a Cherokee from Oklahoma. 

It’s with pleasure I introduce Ralph Keen. 

KEEN: When approached to deliver this speech, I had to wrestle my conscience 
to decide what would be appropriate. I decided to make suggestions. 

We're all proud we're living in the greatest society ever designed by man. We 
have 200 million people in this country and over 3/4ths enjoy the advantages of our 
society. In short, we're living in the midst of plenty, but also in the age of a great 
paradox. The paradox of poverty in the midst of plenty. Some 40 million Americans 
do not share benefits we’ve managed to provide for the majority. Unfortunately, the 
American Indian is at the very end of the line when it comes to receiving these benefits. 
From the time man first walked this earth to about 1808 the American Indian was a 
proud and resourceful man. He managed to endure the elements and exist in harmony 

with nature. He made achievements and developed leaders among his people. These 

were great leaders and many have been described in history: Chief Minnemucka, Chief 
Seattle, Chief Joseph, Sacajuea, Sequoia, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse and more . These 
men managed to provide leadership and, as a result of this leadership, a culture was 
produced in which the Indian survived. The white man and the imposition of his dominant 
society has cost the American Indian much. Since the turn of the century, not one 
Indian leader is recorded in our history. 

With the creation of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the right of self-determination 
was removed. This federal agency, as a result of changing moods of Congress, has 
managed to hold Indian people in a state of suspension . The Indian managed to preserve 
his culture while the modern world passed by. It is almost impossible today to ascertain 
whether a specific Indian trait is due to culture or to environment ! 

One factor is loss of the traditional role of the male in the poverty-stricken 
American Indian family. Once he was looked to for his proud ability to provide for his 
family. Now, he's been forced to accept from an ungraceful giver. Welfare and gifts 
from the Federal Government tend to destroy his role in the family . 

Another factor is that the jobless male American Indian has never "worked, " in 
the sense we think of, and family activities have no 8 -hour working day to evolve around. 

Another factor is the cultural, extended -family relationship all American Indians 
seem to practice. It's not uncommon to visit an Indian home and find not just a father, 
mother and children, but grandpartents, nieces, nephews and cousins as well. Therefore, 
since all these people are the immediate family, it’s difficult for his employer to under- 
stand the hopes, desires and anxieties of the employee. It is said that when an Indian 
must be excused to attend a funeral that he sure has a lot of relatives! Consequently, 
employers often attribute these absences to laziness rather than to showing respect for 


The American Indian has almost a complete lack of commercial instinct. This 
prevents his becoming actively engaged in business. It's not hard to understand since 
Indians never engaged in selling for profit. 

Another area of importance in becoming engaged in gainful employment is 
knowledge of how to save for tomorrow. Poverty-stricken Indians have known only how 
to live for today. They've never earned enough money to have a surplus over the 
amounts needed for basic necessities. 

Our purpose here is to find a way through the involvement of people concerned 
to improve success of our programs. Any such plan, I feel, will be a token gesture 
unless it incorporates extensive participation of Indians in all stages from planning to 
final implementation. Therefore, I suggest the Department of Labor create within its 
structure an advisory committee to make recommendations at the Washington level. 

This advisory committee, composed entirely of tribal leaders from around the country, 
should meet on a regular basis and its recommendations should be taken seriously in 
all future planning. 

This idea has already been implemented in another federal agency to help solve 
problems in education. We've been assured by Commissioner Bennett that similar 
committees will be created on regional levels . 

Next I would suggest that, in order to make programs for Indians more effective, 
the Department of Labor create within its administrative structure a special section 
similar to the one Office of Equal Opportunity. This desk should have authority to make 
grants, recommendations and policies in regards to programs available to Indians. I 
claim no pride of authorship for any of these suggestions. I simply restate them and 
urge positive action to insure their success. 

With the creation of such a special section, it would then be possible for programs 
to be initiated on the reservation and forwarded directly to the special section in 
Washington for final approval. If this should happen, various agency efforts would be, in 
reality, programs of the people. 

An employment aide would work in placement where jobs are available and keep 
the council informed of it's current tribal labor picture. 

Still another important function for an employment aide would be to organize classes 
aimed at better qualifying for positions. It's not enough to train poverty-stricken Indians 
in the pure mechanics of doing a job. One must also educate them in such areas as: 

1. What’s expected of an employee. For a person who has never worked, it is a 
monumental task to ascertain just what's expected. 

2. What are some problems they can expect in taking employment of a certain 
nature? Many poverty-stricken Indians quit their jobs because they were unprepared for 
problems their employment created. 

3. Consumer reducation. 

4. Cultural traits. There are cultural traits not conducive to good employment 
practices. Many more cultural traits are good. But we should make people aware of the 
difference . 




5 . Planning family activities around the habits of an 8 -hour -a -day wage earner. 

6. Last but not least, employment aides to assist the tribal council in planning a 
comprehensive recognition system for tribal members who make great strides towards 
improving their family's standard of living. Why not formally recognize the person who 
raises himself above welfare? Many organizations select a "Man of the Year." Plaques 
and certificates also serve to boost the ego. The advisory committee could select an 
employment aide who had done the most during the year to help his people. 

Until this extensive involvement is accomplished, our prospects of achieving real 
success in employment are slim . I've tried to suggest techniques for improving the 
labor picture among Indians that have already proven successful in other fields. 

It gives me a great satisfaction to know the U. S. Department of Labor apparently 
has faith in our Indian people. If they didn't: possess this faith, they wouldn't have 
called this meeting. (Applause.) 

TOASTMASTER: Thank you very much, Ralph. We must work at this business 
of cooperation for sometime. 

Among the distinguished Indian leaders with us today is Harry Belvin, Principal 
Chief of the Choctaw Nation. Harry's father was the first full-blooded Indian to practice 
before the U. S. Supreme Court. Harry has served in the Oklahoma Legislature. 

We would like to have you summarize, Mr. Belvin. 

BELVIN: Thank you, Mr. Solem. There are so many fine things from each panel 
I'm afraid we may miss some of the best. You'll have to forgive us, because we just 
didn't have time. 

The chairmen of the recent regional leadership conferences were called to 
Washington a few days ago to go over legislation that came out of the conferences. The 
Indian people seemed somewhat discouraged or disappointed so, from the discussion in 
Washington, a letter was drafted to the President. I want to call one very fine paragraph 
to your attention. 

"For other citizens, government exists to serve them as a matter of right and 
not a favor. It is time government consistently recognize it is our servant and not our 
master. Many difficulties today, we feel, lie in the unresponsiveness of public officials 
to our social and economic needs, despite the fact adequate legislation exists to further 
Indian progress in many fields. The last major, progressive policy change was adopted 
in 1934, thirty -three years ago. Today, we need revision and updating of that policy. 

That policy saved our lands, insured our rights of limited self-government and opened 
the door to financial credit for Indians. " It goes hand-in-hand with what we're trying to 
do here. 

One recommendation from the panels was that industry should be established 
within reach of the Indian labor market. 

Another is that education and training should be emphasized: vocational education, 
trade skills and the like. 

i. i r '.I «a^«a)Lmmv. <jst. 


Understanding between Indians and non -Indians should also be improved to reduce 
discrimination against Indians. Indians need to think in terms of long-range planning 
for educational development including pre -vocational and vocational training to be ready 
for industrial development when it comes. There's too much complaining by Indians 
about little things. vVe must change the Indian's attitude, to a great extent, if he's to 
fit into society. 

Another recommendation was that Indian counselors should be provided as liaison, 
possibly between agencies that serve Indians and Indians themselves. We need many more 
Indians to work among Indians! Communication must be definite and clear. Discrimina- 
tion must be abolished. We don't like to talk about discrimination, but we have it. 

More stablized Indian employment is needed in government subsidized programs. 
Both Indians and employers need to be oriented . The employer needs to appreciate that 
he doesn't understand the Indian and the Indian doesn't understand him . We must train 
the Indian in the English language. Many older Indians, of course, didn't like to speak 
English even after they learned it . 

The traditional Indian must not be forgotten. Too many times, we rush past the 
man who needs help. 

A prime need is education and acceptance by the Indian family that education is a 
necessity. I can't help but give recognition to my Indian father. He said, "Son, we 
can’t go back to the old way. We're living in a different world than when I was a boy. 

You must get an education if you're to live in your white brother's world and get along 
with him . So don't look back; look forward. " I thought that was a fine philosophy. 

Another recommendation was that industrial hiring standards must be lowered to 
accommodate the present Indian worker who lacks a high, school diploma. In other words, 
take the Indian as you find him and help him go where he wants to go . 

Then, the BIA should be restructured to serve off reservation Indians, which 
it's now doing only to limited degree. 

I want to encourage you. We're not just talking and then going home and forget 
this, because there's work to be done. 

The white man won't program for us and then see it through. He will try to help 
us. The Indians have a voice today. Let us use that voice. We're getting recognition 
as never before. If we're to "arrive, " we must forget the little things and work toward 
the bigger things . 

Excerpted From 

/V' / 141 





Clarence E. Collins 

Director, USES 
Region XI 

Tom Daly 

Field Supervisor 

Arizona State Employment Service 

"The Seattle Pre -Vocational Training Center" 

Presented by: George T. Barett, Area Employment Assistance Officer 

Bureau of Indian Affairs 

Agency Representatives 
Herbert Bechtold 

George Kester 

William Moore 

Ross Reese 

Program Analyst 

Office of Economic Opportunity 

Assistant Regional Representative 
Vocational Rehabilitation Administration 
U.S. Department of Health, Education and 

Director, Office of Special Service 
Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training 

Office of Operations 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 

Other Participants 

Dr. Alfred Edwards 

Milton Graf 
Mrs. Mabel Harris 

Burt Martin 

Deputy Assistant Secretary for Rural 
Development and Conservation 
U. S. Department of Agriculture 

Arizona State Employment Service 
Scottsdale, Arizona 

Social Worker, OEO and Indian Programs 
Member of Sac & Fox Tribe 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

Peter MacDonald 

Executive Director 

Office of Navajo Economic Opportunity 
Ft. Defiance, Arizona 

Excerpted From 

PANEL NO. 2 -A (Continued) 


Other Participants (Continued) 

Dennis Ogan 
Victor Phillips 
Benedict Quigno 

Edward W. Ridgway 
Antoine Skahan 

Walter Voorhees 


Seattle Orientation Center 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 

Assistant to Administrator, ASCS 
U. S. Department of Agriculture 
Washington, D. C. 

Sec retary 

Saginaw Chippewa Tribe of Michigan, and 
Michigan State Commission on Indian Affairs 
Mt. Pleasant, Michigan 

State Employment Security Director 
Aberdeen, South Dakota 

Yakima Tribal Council 
Yakima, Washington 


Walker River Paiute Tribal Council 
Shurz, Nevada 



CHAIRMAN: Peorge Barett, serving the Northwest Region for BIA, is an Alaskan 

Indian of the Klinket Tribe. His father went to Alaska in 1879. He's well educated and 
has taught at various schools. He has been with the Bureau for some 30 years. George, 
would you please tell us about the Seattle Prevocational Training Center. 

BARETT: The concept of the reservation was a matter of military expediency in the 

early days. What to do with the Indian; the hostile? Finally the reservation evolved and 
with it, possibly the worst tiling that ever happened to the Indian. It robbed him of self- 
respect, initiative and industry and made him completely dependent upon a Federal govern- 
ment to give him rations. If there's anything that would destroy self-respect, it is dependency. 

We recognize that many reservations are unable to support their populations. They re 
located in isolation with very poor communications, lack of transportation, lack of power, 
water and many other things essential to industrial growth. Without industry, of course, 
there's no employment and this has confronted the Indian for many years. 

Whether we like it or not, we must go where employment is in many cases. Many 
strides are made towards industrializing our reservations. Some lend themselves to it; 

others do not. 

Unfortunately, many people aren't ready for this step. They lack formal education 
and skills. The Manpower Training Program came into being and with the help of many 
people, we were able to set up prevocational training in Seattle. 

What do we mean by prevocational? The program was established for the benefit of 
those adults who could not get into vocational training. The idea was to give them basic 
skills in reading, writing and arithmetic and to provide home training for families of those 
in school. We were lucky in that we were able to provide all things necessary for success of 
such a program. We had housing, U.S. Public Health Service, U.S. Department of Labor, 
State Employment Security and, most of all, the cooperation of the Seattle public school 
system which conducted the academic training. 



-ljlj- T*rr. 



We got the project approved and then waited for final allocation of funds. The State 
of Washington had already used up its Manpower funds for that year. We knocked on the 
door of the Department of Labor in Washington and did another soiling job. They made 
recaptured funds available to us to initiate our first program. 

There are many "if' s" connected with such a project. Seattle public schools were 
waiting word, because they'd hired teachers for the project, without knowing if the money 
would be forthcoming. In any event, we got the money and started the school. We brought 
in 50 adult dropouts and began a five-month accelerated course. 

We gave all candidates the California Achievement Test to determine exactly what to 
do to upgrade them. Students were highly motivated, because they realized this would 
possibly be the last chance of their lives to advance. 

It's amazing what these adult dropouts accomplished in five months. Average age of 
the first class was 27 and 26 in the second class. Achievement scored was in excess of 
four grades by actual test and nothing less than two grades. It was the most successful 
project of its kind in the nation. We had 82 percent successful completion in the first group, 
83 percent in the second group. 

While they went to school academically, we conducted classes for their wives. We 
gave the men two hours exposure to trades each day of the five months, and every four 
weeks we changed exposure to another trade. We did not intend they should have anything 
but exposure, because we wanted them to "feel" their way and find interests. We gave 
them exposure to sheet metal, lathe work, welding, commercial cooking, wood shops and 
horticulture. Upon completion, we immediately placed them in vocational training. You 
may be interested to know that members of the first two classes have all completed their 
vocational training, are now employed and are maintaining their familiesl We trained 
welders who began at $3.22 an hourl 

The fourth class will have graduated and the fifth class will enter training Monday. 



That, briefly, is the story of Seattle Prevocational Training. 

CHAIRMAN: These classes were set up to handle not more than 50 trainees, so the 

four classes mentioned mean 200 trainees are now in productive capacity and are now tax- 
payers instead of tax users. 

KESTER: Simply stated, prevocational is a service to help disabled men and women 

into employment. By "disabled” I mean those who have a physical or mental handicap. 

Our services are designed to determine first of all what's physically or mentally wrong 
with an individual. A counselor sits down with the individual and tries to work out a long- 
range plan which may include not only physical restoration services, but a plan to meet any 
educational deficiencies. We can provide any essential training costs including tuition, 
books, supplies, board and room and so forth to meet the individual's needs. In this, we 
work very closely with established employment services. 

The Montana State Rehabilitation Agency is currently in development of a training plan 
for parapalegic Indians on the Northern Cheyenne Reservation. 

The Navajo Tribe for some time has been contributing $10, 000 each year to Arizona 
Rehabilitation. The current ratio is 3 to 1, so this $10, 000 is actually $40,000. 

Currently, we're involved in comprehensive statewide planning for development and 
improvement of rehabilitation. This permits a state, for example, to get up to $100, 000 
to project rehabilitation needs of all handicapped people through 1975. 

We also have a program of research and demonstration. Disabled Indians have been 
selected from poverty-stricken reservations in Montana, Alaska, Arizona, Utah and New 
Mexico. Experiments in opening more job opportunities for them are underway. At Northern 
Montana College, for example, we have a special training program for a group of handi- 
capped Indians moved onto campus. We recognized from previous experience that it was 





necessary to bring the whole family into the training program and special housing units 
were established. This is quite a change for these individuals. Home economists in the pro- 
gram had to work very diligently with the whole family. They had to acquaint children with 
new school situations and also work with housewives. We feel it's having very good re- 

We've discovered that rehabilitation needs are especially pressing because of high 
incidence of disability among Indians. We've found the Indian family must be provided a 
good deal of individual help . 

His language is so different, it is difficult for the Navajo to put on shoes and express 
the feeling they should fit like moccasins. The Navajo Tribe is one of the largest in the 
U.S. Reservation resources provide income from oil, uranium and helium, but do little, 
actually, to enrich the individual Navajo. Many Navajo live in windowless houses. Hope- 
fully, our project at Flagstaff will develop methods of overcoming language and other barriers, 
and place the Navajo in employment on the reservation. We are attempting to specialize 
in the requirements of our clients . 

MOORE: There's been great discussion about need for training. I want to mention 
factors involved in training a man to be a skilled craftsman. Some people tell us we should 
speed up training. There are reasons this can't very well be done. Some people say four 
years are too long, but new methods are being applied. It's still practically impossible 
to turn out a skilled craftsman in less time. 

This long-term training is one basic factor. It takes four years to train most mechanics; 
seven to eight years for others. Obviously, it's not easy to train someone to be a machinist 
out in the country where there's no machinery. 

One other factor is that if the program is to be effective it must be jointly carried on 
by management and labor. That doesn't mean there aren't apprenticeship programs carried 



on without this participation, but particularly in the building trades, the joint committee 
is an absolute necessity. 

There's a requirement that, in addition to work on the job, there should be related 
instruction. If you train a man to be a machinist, he should know something about mathe- 
matics, blueprint reading, metallurgy and so on. There are similar requirements for 
other trades. 

One standard that employers and labor unions have agreed on is the requirement of a 
high school education or equivalent. 

Now, about some problems encountered especially in apprenticeship programs set up 
on the reservation. 

One, of course, has been the educational level. I was pleasantly surprised to hear 
this situation has changed. For example, the Navajos are turning out 2500 high school gradu- 
ates a year. 

Another problem common to most reservations is remoteness from any industrial 
center. I mention again that if you train a man to be a carpenter you must put him in a 
location where there’s carpentry work. This has been a problem in several efforts we’ve 

made to get apprenticeships among Indians. 

A problem, too, is lack of industry on reservations. I understand this is rapidly 
changing and, in addition to lumber mills, helium plants and the possible expansion of the 
coal industry, there’s a sizable construction program every year. These are encouraging 
facts which may enable us in. cooperation with tribal council to do something about the 
problem. One problem in getting Indian boys into apprenticeship programs is the tendency 
to contract construction work. When a contractor comes on the reservation, he either 
brings his own apprentices or doesn't take time to train Indians. 



Another problem is remoteness of our field staff from reservations. We have one 
field man in Phoenix and it's difficult for him to go 350 miles a day to Window Rock and 

work with any satisfaction. 

One point mentioned several times has to do with whether or not Indians should be 
trained on a reservation and stay there or go elsewhere. I think it should work both ways. 

If, for one reason or another, an Indian wants to stay on the reservation, that's his busmess. 
On the other hand, if he wants to, he should be qualified to move. The critical point is he 
should be trained to take a job as a plumber, bricklayer, or machinist any where. Ik* should 
have mobility through complete training. With it he has a valuable asset all his life. 

I'm going to talk very frankly here. It's fine to have this big meeting, but what are 
we going to do after we get home? Is this going to be just another big piece of propaganda? 

If not, what's required? One thing required is money. No one seems to know where his 
money will come from, but if the job is to be done, it requires money. Money is needed 
for equipment, facilities and field staff. The Chairman has referred to our "mature age. " 

If we get money, perhaps we'll get some younger fellows on the job. 

The third point is coordination. It's almost unbelievable, but in the Department of 
Labor in Washington, we find an agency doing a job and not knowing another agency is working 
with them. The Secretary of Labor has said this must stop. In our efforts, all these 
agencies have a contribution to make, and I'm hoping we work closer to get the job done. 

Finally, some optimistic points so we don't conclude on a low key. We don t want to 
spend all our time on college and high school graduates, but as more craftsmen train, more 
opportunities and better economy results. The fact we have a meeting like this bringing 
attention to the problem is an optimistic note. Before it's been largely ignored and now we 

must pay attention to the problem at once . 


Labor unions are getting more interested. I’d like to see more of what the Navajos have 
done. They have a joint apprenticeship committee composed of representatives of the tribe, 

the union, management, Bureau of Indian Affairs and so on. 

As more industry comes to reservations there will be more opportunity for training 

and you must have industry if you’re to train people on-the-job. 

CHAIRMAN: The Secretary of Labor's admonition that there's no room for so-called 

"parochial" feeling among agencies made plain that there isn't room in Federal government 
for that sort of thing. Because you work for a particular agency or bureau, your field of 
interest can’t be confined. To resolve the problems we face today, all agencies must work 
together. The economy is healthy, but it isn't so healthy we can afford to have the manpower 
of tills nation sit idle and have hard core unemployment when there are job vacancies. 

BECHTOLD: Today, instead of telling you about the "nice" or the beautiful training 

program, or the multi-federal agency program, or the 2000 aids performing useful functions 
on reservations, I’ll say I'm not interested in those people anymore. They're a success. 
They're paying taxes and they’re paying all our salaries. I am interested in the other 400, 000 
Indian people who still live in houses without roofs and who do not have jobs, if we consider 

a job something that lasts 52 weeks a year. 

I'd rather talk about guidelines we've set up. Within the past year it was my fortune 

or misfortune to attend a meeting in Denver. They presented what I call The 

Jack Armstrong Syndrome." Speaker after speaker said, "Bring me a minority group member 

with 110 IQ, who’s a good looking, cleancut, well brought up, an all-American type boy and 
we'll train him." I thought, they're looking for a president for General Motors! 

Lo and behold, it was for a short-order cook! Do we need a young, cleancut, well educated, 
all-American to cook eggs and pass them to a customer? While it's true we must improve 
the educational system on reservations, it's true we must upgrade all along the line. There s 


■jUioS Sl^!f 'rjrVFSbms&ZlS-XM-' 


need for Indians to understand needs of democracy. All of us, and all agencies, should ask, 
"Is this necessary? Why do we need Jack Armstrong for a cook or to clean a city street?" 

The age criteria struck me. Perhaps this is more noticeable now that I've passed 36, 
but everyone loves to train people of 21; especially cleancut, well-groomed, high school 
graduates of 21. We all love to train them and say, "See what we've done!" Having passed 
35 by many years now, I feel like asking. "What happens to people my age? Do we shoot 
them? Are they no longer qualified for employment?" So, I’ll concentrate on the 35 to 65 
group and tell you why I believe concentration should not be on Indian youth, but on Indian 
men from 35 to 65 who are heads of families. 

There seems to be an important factor we constantly forget, and that's identification. 

We seem to think a child can watch his father remain unemployed, 52 weeks of the year for 
52 years without effect. Suddenly, at the age of 21. we come along and say, "Sonny, we 
have a golden apple for you. We'll send you to vocational training and you're not going to 
be like your daddy. You're going to work for 52 years." The child will say, "What's good 
enough for my father is good enough for me." 

On the other hand, if the child sees his father leave at 8 every morning and come home 
at 5 with an empty lunch box, the child can identify and think, "Sometime in my life, when 
I become a big man, I’ll go to work." The child will notice during all his school years and 
he'll identify with a working father. 

They often say an Indian of 36, who's picked roots, berries or potatoes can't be helped. 
He's used to his life and doesn't want to work. Is this really true? 

Mr. Jourdain came up with a most fascinating concept of building low income housing 
while training unskilled, uneducated Indians to become highly skilled construction workers. 
There were 30 trainees. Eleven are full journeymen though none was a high school graduate 
This is an example of what can be done. We should give more thought to the older men, 

iurxs'i* uyuc^'j.-;) 


so the Indian youth we're all worried about will have an adult to identify with and not say, 
"My father is a retired buffalo hunter, " and then snicker. Let's give the father a trade 
the son can follow. 

We must seriously think of an urban oriented, vocational training program before 
we can solve the problem of reservations, all of which are isolated. When I go to 
reservations, I usually take 4 or 5 books along because I'm in a little motel 40 miles 
from the nearest jack rabbit. 

The San Carlos Apaches came up with an idea on developing an Indian public 
relations firm through the tribal council. The Apaches decided they'd do this work 
for Federal agencies in their newspaper through contract. They had 20 men complete 
a 2 to 3 year training program to develop skills in photography, illustrations, art, 
design and so on. They went to Phoenix and asked for State money . A gentleman asked, 
"Do you live in Phoenix?" They said, "No, we're about 200 miles away . " He said, 
"You're 200 miles too far to qualify for any money from MDTA. " This is another 
example . 

Another thing is training on the reservation. Mr. Jourdain deserves the thanks 
of all Indian people, because he got them to accept his reservation as an acknowledged 
institution of vocational training, thereby allowing him to train people on the reservation. 
This is quite important, because whoever does the training gets the benefit of services 
of the trained people. When he trains people in construction work, they build 10 houses 
for 10 poor Indian families . 

The thing we completely forget is that most reservations are abnormal economic 
communities. They're consumers of wealth, not producers of wealth. Whenever they 
have a dollar they must go to a neighboring town 40 or 50 miles away for the honor of 
spending that dollar. There was $1.3 million going into the Turtle Mountain reservation 

ISTTTf • ■ ■* ' ' IWJW.' '.EiL!SW«KEL «TMJU Tt. VJW- u g ' ' y 55^5^ 



in State and federal welfare payments. Services should be set up; a grocery, gas station, 
shoe shop, barber shop. This $1.3 million could support 25 of the largest families on 
that reservation at a decent standard of living, thereby accelerating use of that, welfare 
money and letting more and more people get off welfare. We must consider training 
Indian people for service shops and businesses on a reservation. This has been a forgotten 
area . 

The Department of Defense also has little factories they'd be willing to relocate on 

GRAF: I agree with Mr. Bechtold in every respect. There's a joint training 
program on the reservation at this moment, and the Employment Service in Arizona has 
never heard of the request, as he just said. 

CHAIRMAN: With each situation, there are different problems one encounters. This 
does not make the resolving of these problems any easier. 

MOORE: MR. Chairman, maybe we need Indian smoke to communicate. 

MacDONALD: I think we need to amplify what Mr. Moore just said. We've seen 
smoke signals of the bureaucrats and we need to look at Indian smoke signals. They have 
the problem. \Ye've heard from these very good people on the panels. We knew exactly 
what they'd say; that they've trained so many people, that the Department is doing this 
and doing that . These things we can get from brochures . 

These Indians have been to express their views on employment on or off 

reservations. We can sit here all day and listen to you. We Indians will go home and 
will probably see on TV or in the press the same old thing. We were fed "good doings" 
of the various agencies, but were never given opportunity to express what we really 
think can be or should be done. What Mr. Bechtold said was very good. 1 like that 
approach because we recognize the programs available through various Federal agencies. 

T r 

'„U i! 

iiuu -U5 



What we want to know is, why have these various services been ineffective and, 

’in some cases, been a losing proposition? 

Let's take the State Vocational Rehabilitation Program on the Navajo. Yes, we re 
participating. The Navajo is putting $10,000 a year into this program, but it reaches 
only 60 handicapped people a year which is perhaps one percent of the total handicapped 
population on the reservations! But the population is increasing 2.5 percent per year! 
This is a losing proposition. They never hit the target. 

CHAIRMAN: The point is well taken. The primary objective of the entire session 
was to have general discussion. I'm afraid we, at the front table, are taking up entirely 

too m 

uch time, regardless of how pertinent our remarks may be. 

REESE: Everything 1 had to say has been said, but I can’t sit down. The ethics 
of our culture won't permit me to come here from Washington and say nothing. My 
boss wouldn't like it. So, I'll underline some things I think important. 

Yesterday, people were going to attack the problem on a "poor man" basis. Educa- 
tion is the thing, jobs arc the thing, and let’s move them off reservations. Now it's the 

massive approach. Everyone will coordinate and we will fuse the Labor Department, 
BIA and OfiO and get together on it. 

Whatever the approach and whatever the cost; maybe $2-3-4 or 5 billion — 1 
don’t care what it costs; at twice the amount it’ll be cheap. Not only will it be cheap, but 
necessary! If we don’t do it now, it’s going to cost even more later. As Mr. Bennett 
said this morning, the Indian population is increasing at twice the average rate probably 
by about three percent. Let’s get to it now! 1 look at these programs from the stand- 
point of money. I’m oriented on budgets. I’d like to see a massive funding of money to 

attack the problem . 






k > 


You can bring the young Indian to a center, hook him to an IBM machine, check 
him out for everything you can think of including his special talents, his vocational 
aptitudes, everything; and then counsel him. You can make sure that wherever you put 
him, he'll get a job and that there's a job in the area which is acceptable to his culture. 

All these things can be done. To me the answer is simply money. But you'll not get 
that kind of money. You'll fight for the pie that's available in one reservation and 
another. You're going to fight the same as Negroes and others for your share. There 
isn't much; $1.7 billion for the poverty program this year. I don't know what it 11 be 
next year. To me, the problem is in the $60 to $70 billion bracket. 

You must do the best you can. Whatever it is, you must do the ultimate 
coordinating. The federal people will help, although they look at things differently 
than you. You know best, however, what goes on in your areas. You must contribute 
your share and coordinate these things as best you can, because you'll not get the kind 

of money you'd like. 

VOORHEES: Mr. Barett, regarding the people brought into training centers, what 
provisions are made for quarters and subsistence? 

BARETT: That's funded by Department of Labor, made available to HEW Educa 
tion Division. It's based on size of the family. In Seattle we funded the entire family. 

I think it was about $135 for a single. 

VOORHEES: That's provided by Health, Education and Welfare? 

CHAIRMAN: Through State Employment Security as the agency which pays allowances 
under the regular Manpower Training Program. 

BARETT: This makes it difficult, because the HEW Regional Director had to 
approve that program as well as Department of Labor, Employment Security, the 
training institution and the State Vocational Training Officer. 



VOORHEES: Mr. Barett, you also talked about exposure to various trades. How 
did labor unions and employers react? 

BARETT: We had no problem since it was under Seattle's public school system and 
we utilized shops of public high schools. 

CHAIRMAN: In terms of training, there was no problem. We were fortunate in 
having facilities available and the school people were receptive to the whole project 
idea. But as people completed their training, of course, there was the problem of placing 
them in gainful employment so they could use the trades and assets they'd gained. This 
was an individual by individual job development approach. 

MARTIN: Mr. Bechtold, you said there were factories wanting to come onto 
reservations. Could you get a list of those factories? We've had an industrial 
specialist in the area BIA office for years and they haven't come up with a thing. I 
wish you'd send us a list of factories that want in. 

BECHTOLD: Your tribesman George Goodwin is working on this at present. As 
soon as this list from the Defense Department is complete, I'll be most happy to airmail 
a copy to every tribal chairman. 

SKAHAN: Mr. Barett, I've worked hard to have industry promoted on my reser- 
vation. A man is to run a furniture factory and will train our people. He will train 
them at $1.40 an hour, but some people earn as high as $2 an hour now because they're 
professional fruit tree pruners. The man signed some kind of agreement with the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs, saying he will pay $1.40 providing BIA will refund 70$ an hour 
to him for everyone who's hired. This factory will employ at least 100 people. 

My question is this, Mr. Barett, how are we to train our people at $1.40 an hour 
when they're receiving $2 an hour at present? 


BARETT: Tony, for your information, I dictated a letter to the gentleman in 
Question about 10 days ago telling him the Indians of the Yakima Reservation, enjoyed 
better wages than he proposed to pay and that if he wanted employees he must pay a 
competitive wage. The Bureau of Indian Affairs under the law is permitted to pay only 
up to 50 percent of minimum wages, but this does not preclude management from paying 

more than minimum wage. 

MRS. HARRIS: Mr. Barett, this program you're telling us about is fantastic . It 
amazes me. Were these Indians self-relocated or did they come in from the reserva- 
tions especially for this program? 

BARETT: These Indians were from various reservations of western Washington. 
They were brought into Seattle to the training facility. Upon completion, they were 
placed in vocational training. Upon completion of vocational training, they were 
gotten jobs. 

Incidentally, as a consequence, the Bureau is now sponsoring a training center 
in California which you'll hear about later. It is for all Indians in the United States. 

MRS. HARRIS: The report was wonderful. I thought they were self-relocated in 
Oklahoma our problem is not with reservations, it's mainly urban living. If they want 
to stay on a reservation, that's fine. Our people in urban areas are not trained. Most 
of them from 37 up don't have more than a fifth grade education. Some of them are 
lucky to find a job at $1.40 and they have from 7 to 11 children. 

How can we get Indians to communicate as they should with other agencies? Lack 
of communication has been the biggest factor in all our problems we must admit. There 
are services galore, but how can we get our people to_them? Let's take the services to 
the Indians. They won't read pamphlets. They don't even read the newspaper. It's 

lack of communication. 

JUU! -U 

. ,v '* - ■sjs-r swy iiiauuj 


I recommend that BIA hire more Indian counselors to work directly with their own 
people and help them communicate with agencies which assist them . 

CHAIRMAN: Your remarks are very pertinent. The Indian does need to be 
prepared. There's no point in moving the Indian someplace else if they're no better 

We're in the same position with respect to Indians that we're in with respect to 
many other disadvantaged groups. While the problem has existed for years and years, 
we really don't know it's full scope. Some people tell me that you can learn how many 
trees are on the reservation, how many dogs there are, or any other information, but 
when it comes to learning characteristics of the Indians on the reservation, their grade 
attainment level, their existing skills or lack of skills, this information has not been 
compiled ! 

MRS. HARRIS: I know you all have "feelings" or you wouldn't be here. These 
conferences cost money . What's the Indian problem? We know what it is 1 Let's 
don't just talk about it! 

I'd like to see this conference end with the realization that Indians must work with 
one another. I think they should salary Indians to do case work. 

QUIGNO: One problem Indians yet have is difficulty adjusting to away -from -home 
situations. Training and relocation near home would make an excellent program realize 
more of its potential. Our dropout rate is currently 60 percent. Later this will show 
up as underemployment. 

CHAIRMAN: That reminds me of the question whether Indians can fit themselves 
into training programs designed for non -Indians. These programs must be discriminatory 
in favor of the Indian so he'll not withdraw. 


In the Seattle project, the decision was that it be exclusively for Indians, but it was 
highly questionable because it was discriminatory . We then had to develop another 
training program for non-Indians, because we felt the Indian could not derive maximum 
benefit if thrown in with non-Indians. Must a training program be exclusively for 

RIDGWAY: In South Dakota we have under MDTA airplane mechanic, auto body and 
other courses and we've integrated. We found the Indian trainee does just as well if not 
better than many non-Indians we've had, and we 11 continue to integrate. The reason 
we've been successful is because we have outstanding Indian people on our payroll on the 
reservations. They work for us, they know the Indian and do a good job of selecting. 

MacDONALD: Many services available to Indians are geared to the average poor, 
the average unemployed. When you begin averaging on a national scale, the Indians 
fall way below. This is one reason programs designed for the average unemployed poor 
never reach the Indian. It's the big reason specifically designed programs should 
consider special conditions relating to Indians. 

They talk about poor people; poverty in Appalachia, pockets of poverty and OEO 
programs for the poor; but I tell you that Indians are probably the poorest of the poor, 
and they don't even have pockets of poverty because they can't afford to buy the pants to 

have pockets . (Applause . ) 

CHAIRMAN: Period 1 If we are to reach specific objectives, we need to customize 
programs to meet these objectives. They have to be customized, not in the terms of a 
national average, but in terms of certain groups, or, perhaps, the average of those 



Excerpted From: 






Merwin Hans 

Chief, Branch of Training Needs, Development 
and Determination 
United States Employment Service 

Walter Judd 

Oregon State Employment Service 

"The Haskell Story" 
Presented by: Thomas Tommaney 
Superintendent of the Haskell Institute 
Lawrence, Kansas 

Agency Representatives 

Dr. William Carmack 

John Clair 
Glen Mitchell 

Clyde Spencer 

Other Participants 

Vern Anderson 

K. D. Edwards 
Oswald C. George 
Richard Gilliland 

Assistant Commissioner 
Community Services 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 

District Director 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 

Assistant Director 

Office of Special Activities 

Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training 

Chief Consultant 

State Employment Service 

Salt Lake City, Utah 

U. S. Department of Housing and Urban Development 
Washington, D. C. 

Commanche Tribe 
Midwest City, Oklahoma 

Vice Chairman 

Coeur d'Alene Tribal Council 

Plummer, Idaho 

Job Corps 

Kansas City, Missouri 

Excerpted From 

PANEL NO. 2-B (Continued) 


Other Participants (Continued) 

Louis A. Houff 

Manpower Development Specialist 
U. S. Department of Commerce 
Washington, D. C. . 

Vernon Jake 

Chairman , „ 

Kaibab-Paiute (Kiowa) Tribal Council 
Fredonia, Arizona 

Overton James 

Chickasaw Nation 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

Col. Alvin A. Katt 

Representative, Manpower and Development, 
Community Action Program 
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 

Gordon E. Kitto 

Treasu rer 
Santee Sioux Tribe 
Winnebago, Nebraska 

Walter J . Knodel 

Chief, Employment Assistance Branch 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Washington, D. C. 

Arthur Manning 


Shoshone Paiute Tribal Council 
Owyhee, Nevada 

Earl Old Person 


Blackfeet Tribal Council 
Browning, Montana 

Earl Boyd Pierce 

General Legal Counsel 
Cherokee Nation 
Muskogee, Oklahoma 

Jerry Rambler 


San Carlos Apache Tribe 
San Carlos, Arizona 

Ruth Shuker 


NAIRO, Commission on Human Rights 
Kansas City, Kansas 

Wilfred Shaw 

Chairman , . ... . « • 

Pyramid Lake Tribal Council of Nixon, Nevada 

Wadsworth, Nevada 

Artley Skenandore 

Legislative Representative 

Great Lake (Wise.) Inter Tribal Council 

West De Pere, Wisconsin 

Excerpted From 161 

PANEL NO. 2-B (Continued) 

Other Participants (Continued) 
Crosslin Smith 

Cherokee Tribal Resource Officer 
Tallequah, Oklahoma 

Herman Townsend 

Chairman, Tribal Council 

Fort Bidwell Reservation (California) 

Bly, Oregon 


CHAIRMAN: This panel will concern itself primarily with training and vocational 

education problems. 

SPENCER: Educational services available to Utah Indians through the office of State 

Superintendent of Public Instruction are substantially the same as those provided for non- 
Indian children and adults. 

The University of Utah maintains a Bureau and, through grants from OEO and in co- 
operation with University of South Dakota and Arizona State University, is developing pro- 
grams for Indian reservations and Indian groups throughout the west. 

Utah State Extension Services are available to the people of Utah including the Indian. 
The Utah Apprenticeship Council is a system of training young workers, 16 and up in all 
aspects of a skilled trade. These are only some of the services available in training and 
vocational education to Utah Indians. 

The Arizona, New Mexico and Utah Employment Security Services, the Navajo Tribal 
Council, the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the U.S. Public Health Service have signed An 
Agreement to Improve Manpower Services to the Navajo Tribe. 

Recently a Human Resource Development Program for Navajos in San Juan County has 

been developed. Objectives of this project are: 

a) Improve roads on the reservation to facilitate services such as schools, employ- 
ment and so on. 

b) Improve family housing and develop feasible agricultural lands. 

c) Increase opportunities for adults in vocational areas. 

d) Provide industrial employment on or near the reservation. 

Some of the problems associated with providing services to reservation Indians are: 

1) Indian people generally prefer work on or near the reservation. This limits em- 
ployment possibilities. They seem reluctant to leave the reservation for permanent 
work. Many leave jobs to return to the reservation and their families. 



■' . .l.W KVA JAUfi Ui r’J.-Hl:- - 



2) Isolation of the reservation from centers of population is another problem. 

Indian reservations in Utah and, I think, in many parts of the country are most 


3) Industrialization on or near reservations must be encouraged. Isolation of reserva- 
tions and lack of transportation facilities present major obstacles. 

Long range programs needed for reservation people include. 

1) Improved educational facilities on and near reservations. 

2) Provide realistic vocation and training needs, on and off reservations. 

3) Improve or build highways and access roads on and near reservations. 

4) Develop community life on reservations. This would require building houses, 
churches, public buildings, recreation and other community facilities. 

5) Provide on- reservation technicians to assist in agricultural and non- agricultural, 

industrial development and other related services. 

In summary, all Indian people should be given opportunity to produce. Past experience 
has proven the American Indian is capable of producing in our society. All he needs is an 

equal opportunity. 

MITCHELL: Each of us at the conference table has a different concept of training and 

vocational education. At the Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training the only type of train- 
ing we think will reach the ultimate goal is a program of on-the-job training. I have no 

argument with anyone about their feelings on the subject. 

Vocational education is one of many beneficial methods of training and one which has 
been indispensable. It’s been recognized as one of the ideal preparatory methods of enter- 
ing on-the-job training. 


. !«n05HTWSreS3BB iJU JLUU,.U.1UUUVV- 


The process of training begins with birth and continues to be a governing factor in 
each of our lives. Training is a chain of ideas or actions to instruct by practice, drill, 
or discipline to prepare one's self for a contest. Life itself is a contest and to properly 
prepare for it, we must be trained. 

We're seeking only one goal. An answer to the question, "How can we better prepare 
the American Indian?" Most of us at this front table are, shall I say, not naturalized citizens. 
We are citizens as a gift of you people . 

CARMACK: You know a great deal about -the Employment Assistance branch of Com- 
munity Sendees. I feel it's unnecessary to elaborate its function. 

This branch basically has three kinds of programs: contracts for on-the-job training, 
direct employment placement and adult vocational training. We're hoping to establish 
smaller Indian field assistance offices over the nation so Indians can find counseling help 
without long distance moves. 

There's a segment of Indian population that’s hard to reach; the individual not prepared 
for one reason or another for vocational education. Individuals who go it alone without oppor- 
tunity for counseling and supporting services don't have near the chance to succeed. We're 
interested in a great deal more than fitting an individual into a job. We're interested in 
what happens to his family, the children in school, if they can find an outlet for their religion, 
if they're accepted by the social community and so on. 

Our focus, by legislation, is on or near the reservation. This means there are literally 
hundreds of thousands of Indians who aren’t recipients of BIA services. I think the prevalent 
myth in this land is that BIA in some vague way "takes care" of Indian people. Any Indian 
can tell you that's far from the truth. For these people we must have increasing involvement 
by other federal agencies and the private sector. 

There's an adage, a theme, for this sort of conference. The adage is, "You can get 
a great deal done if you don't care who gets the credit." In the Federal administration, 
we're inclined to concern ourselves with credit. 

Things we’ve said today point to further collaboration in the future. 

HOUFF: In the Economic Opportunity Administration, we’ve done substantial training 
on reservations and we look forward to a great deal more. Some training proposals have 
been very good, but far too often proposals are below the minimum wage. This is 
discouraging to us because it perpetuates poverty, not eliminates it. 

We look forward to receiving proposals which will improve the income level of 
reservation residents. Please don’t submit proposals which will not help your people. 

TOMMANEY: I’m delighted to be attending this conference and to speak of the work 
of Haskell Institute in preparing young Indian men and women for the adult labor market. 

The motto of our school is short, but most meaningful; "Learn to Earn." It could 
well be the theme of this conference . Haskell was founded as a training school for 
Indians. Each succeeding generation of students has available courses of study which 
seem suitable. Potential placement after graduation is always uppermost in our program 


In 1884, a course in blacksmithing or harness making was proper, but in 1967, a 
course in electronics or air conditioning and refrigeration offers more job opportunities 

for a young graduate . 

As you would assume, our students are principally in the same age group with college 
freshmen and sophomores. Great emphasis is given to such intangibles as maintaining a 
proper attitude toward your fellowman, your work and yourself. These points are acquisi- 
tions in total personality development which we're convinced is as important as acquisition 
of specific job skills. Whenever our people fail after graduation it generally comes from 

'L'U'.PlL'l .JO, ! 

7sm saTcasig: 

j 166 

I having a poor attitude and lack of self motivation, rather than lack of required schooling 

for a particular job. 

Indian enrollees from every geographic area, many of whom will become leaders in 
home communities in a Twenty-First Century world, must be reaffirmed with old-fashioned 
virtues that made America. 

In conclusion, our motto is "Learn to Earn", but it means more than money. It means 
; learning to live to help yourself and others. 

| RAMBLER: I know the difference between placement and vocational training, but there 

are appropriations set up in placement and appropriations set up in vocational training. 
Money is now at a peak for vocational training. As a result, people who've been accepted 
for training have a long time to wait, but they go into placement at once. Could arrange- 
ments be made, at discretion of the placement officer on reservations so there’d be more 
i people going into placement? I’m a councilman and they've asked me about this. I've ex- 

plained advantages of vocational training. The particular advantage if you're trained is 
| you can work some place else, even if once fired. If you’re on placement, you don’t have 

a trade. 

CARMACK: I agree with your emphasis and I'll look into the point you raise on the 

distribution of funds. I feel strongly that local initiative by our people should be stressed 
so they can be more flexible and meet circumstances. 

| EDWARDS: I know what you gentlemen are talking about. We don't have reservations, 

■ but we have many people. We find that they get a job and then something happens back home 

They want to go home, but maybe they're not able to explain the situation to their boss. 

It should be stressed that each tribe has a different way of doing tilings. They can't say, 
"I'm Comanche. Because of a death, I’m going, " because other tribes wouldn't be that way. 
It must be local so people would understand why each tribe is different. 

■ .At-JJiJlil-lLllU UllUlWi-lU 


I make this comment because we've had so much trouble with this in Oklahoma 

TOWNSEND: Several of our members work in Lake View, Oregon, and have applied 
for vocational training in California. They're members of the Ft. Bidwell Reservation in 
California. The Bureau wrote to them and said they weren't eligible because they weren't 
residents of the reservation and lived in another state. Isn't it possible they could qualify 
somehow and take advantage of the training? 

CARMACK: Are you speaking of the Medera Training Program? 

TOWNSEND: They had an opening in San Francisco. 

CARMACK: Oh yes, the field offices. You've raised one of the toughest problems 

for the Bureau of Indian Affairs in all our program and that's the question of eligibility. 

We've interpreted our legislative mandate to mean we operate on or near reservations . 
This excludes from services large numbers of people who were at one time on reservations, 
and other members of tribes recognized by the Bureau. I understand the problem, but I 
don't know enough to be helpful. 

OLD PERSON: The Blackfeet have approximately 12, 000 enrolled and they are all over 

the United States. Could they come under this type of training without coming back to the 
reservation to be recognized? 

CARMACK: That, again, Mr. Old Person, is the basic question, and the answer must 
be specific on the applicability of an individual. It's easy to say we don't have authority, 
but I've been on both sides of the question. I've changed my mind because Indians are urban- 
izing in fantastic numbers rapidly. This allows services by a community from all levels of 
government. It means all kinds of social services any other citizen is entitled to. There's 
no reason for the Bureau to duplicate all these services. Because of the tax exempt basis 


of Indian land, the theory is that when states and local communities do not provide these 
services, the Bureau is funded to do it. 

Take a hardship case of an Indian living in, say, Dallas. If he were back on the re- 
servation he'd receive Bureau welfare. Suppose we extend Bureau welfare to him even if it's 
legal. The state, county and city would think the Bureau was apparently taking over welfare 
for Indians in Dallas and they'd forget them. We'd be appearing to solve a problem we can t 
solve. When you try to apply it to Mr. Smith who lives 10 miles off the reservation or 
Mr. Jones who lives 20 miles and then start drawing a line, you can look pretty ridiculous. 

The Indian Health Division has precisely the same problem. Where other health ser- 
vices are provided to which Indians are entitled, Health normally doesn't duplicate those 
services. We're in discussion with them about this "line drawing" business. It’s a mess. 

PIERCE: It's been obvious to all of us who've been identified with this Indian matter. 

The question raised is rather grievious because of misunderstanding both by the Indians 
and by local service people . The taxpayers in the city have a right to believe the Bureau 

of Indian Affairs is taking care of the Indian. 

You just explained that it' s impossible under law for you to do it. But it seems to us 
the Bureau would find a way to properly advise all the services in the principal cities of 
the limitations on its power and ability to furnish services to local Indians. The local 
people who dispense the aid, believing it the duty of the Bureau to dispense it and having 
limitation on their own ability and money, simply say, "Let the government do it. 

I'd like to ask a question, Bill, that goes right to the roots of our interest. First, 
let me say I've the greatest respect and affection for many people in the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs. I've known many of them personally and intimately for nearly 40 years. I know 

thousands of them, who are dedicated to American Indian service. 

there are hundreds, yes, 



On the other hand, we know as Indians, there are some people working for the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs drifting along, and have for years, waiting to retire. They 
don't love Indians or even care for the work they're doing. But, thank God, there 

aren't many of them . 

In Oklahoma, we've had a peculiar situation since statehood, because of an 
arrangement by Congress and the inhabitants of the two territories on the west side 
and the east side of the State. In 1906, Congress wrote a law enabling inhabitants of 
both sections to form a State. There were conditions, however. One was that the 
people and the government of the new State would never interfere with administration 

of Indian affairs . 

Later, and in recent times, legislation has come about providing for housing, 
for example. An Act of Congress in 1926 specifically provides that tribal existence 
and present tribal government of the Choctaws, Chickasha, Creeks, Seminoles and 
Cherokees shall continue in existence and in full force and effect until otherwise provided 
by law. There's been no change in that statute. 

The housing law enabled certain municipalities to create housing authorities. 

We were told, as tribes, we must first wait for Oklahoma to pass enabling legislation, 
to create such housing authorities. Some of us believe these tribes not only had ability 
to manage such an operation, but were sitting with proper legal authority to proceed. 

But we waited through two sessions of the Legislature before some tribes could create 
housing authorities. 

The Cherokees, for whom I speak, after creating a housing authority with the 
aid of able technicians of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, put together a proposal. That pro- 
posal was cleared throug the regional office in Ft. Worth and now rests in Washington where 
it's been for months! The fourth winter has come again since we began talking about housing 
for our people! We have about 10, 000 or 11, 000 full -blood Cherokees — I 'm ashamed to admit it, 


yr’ — 



but it's the truth -- living in houses far below standard for this country. You can throw a 
bird dog between the logs of some houses. Many roofs do not protect children from the ele- 
ments . We’ve been moving heaven and earth, including our friends in the Bureau and housing 
people in Washington to have that program approved and to let us move forward, building 

homes . 

What's happened in Washington that's slowed down the requested program? Why can t 
it be expedited? If there was ever an emergency affecting Indian people, it’s the speedy 
expedition of approval or rejection, so we may again resort to our own resources and try 

something else. 

I want to praise not only Bureau, but Manpower people. They came to us not too long ago 
and said that if we’d do certain things, they'd set up a training program. Just like that through 
the aid of Oklahoma City people contacted by Manpower Division, we have one of the finest, 
best directed, schools for heavy training equipment. The school is small, but will be en- 
larged. I mention it only to point out that with an understanding of people, we’re moving 
forward. We could have made giant strides in housing by now, if the Bureau, good as they 
are, had been able to break that housing bottleneck in Washington. I happen to know, per- 
sonally, that Bill and others have walked many miles to get it done, but it hasn't been done! 

CARMACK: Let me say that when a Cherokee lawyer starts praising the Bureau, I think 

he’s lapsed into senility. But when he gets to "powder and lead”, I know we're back to truth 
again. Mr. Pierce knows a great deal more about legislation than anyone here. Is anybody 

here from HUD or HHA? 

ANDERSON (HUD): Those programs are moving ahead. International Business and 

Economy Corporation is developing programs, I think, for the City of Chicago, Cherokee and 


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CARMACK: The Bureau of Indian Affairs provides housing planning assistance. We 

provide low rent programs and assistance through the construction phase, but HHA signs 
monetary grants. Our difficulty is we aren't able to collaborate enough for needed pro 

grams . 

HANS: As they say on television, it might be time for a short commercial from our 

sponsor, U.S. Employment Service . 

We've been talking about manpower and we'd do ourselves great injustice if we concen- 
trated totally and completely on BIA. I have no quarrel with them. They have fine programs 
and we work closely with them. I'd like to point out that there's a series of manpower pro- 
grams available through various legislation including work programs, training programs of 
various types, placement assistance and even relocation assistance. These are available 
to Indians as citizens wherever they might be and they're also readily available on reserva- 
tions . 

GEORGE: When an Indian goes to Neighborhood Youth Corps camp, he's in a minority 

there. This tends to cause him to go home. 

I know there are civil rights, but will there be different groups, one for Indians and one 
for others, in these camps? 

CLAIR: I represent Neighborhood Youth Corps. All our programs operate where the 

youth are. You're referring to Job Corps where they go to camp. 

PIERCE: Oswald is my friend and he's under the impression you're with the Labor De- 

partment's Neighborhood Youth Corps. 

Oswald, the camps are under the Office of Economic Opportunity. This gentleman is 
in charge of the Neighborhood Youth Corps, directly under the Department of Labor, and 
they have no camps. There are no problems you're thinking about involved in Neighborhood 



Youth Corps projects. They deal with high school children who stay at home and work part 

time. We'll come back to Job Corps a little later. 

SHAW: It's not feasible for a program to train people for low paying jobs. Our people 

to get higher paying jobs under programs Mr. Mitchell outlined, must be in organized labor. 

Will unions work with us? 

MITCHELL: They not only will, but they're anxious to. I can think of three proposals 

received in the last two weeks at the national level from the Operating Engineers, the Iron 
Workers, Structural Workers and so on. They're proposing a training program for Indians 
and, if the trainees complete it, they guarantee employment. They also guarantee they'll 
be union members, so they're seeking Indians as active participants in their programs. 

SHAW: Would it be up to individual tribes to contact local labor organizations on how 

many skilled workers we can produce? 

MITCHELL: I recommend that your tribal committee contact the state or local level 

labor organizations. They'll work with you. 

SKENANDORE: Is there a program to incorporate MDTA, OEO and HUD to produce 

"mutual housing"? I'm project director for two housing programs in Wisconsin and there's 

been a lack of direction in regards to mutual housing. 

HOUFF: This is true. Last year states were requested to submit plans to show how 

they'd like to use their funds. This year, they've gone one step further in state plans and 
are considering comprehensive, area manpower plans. HUD is participating in this pro- 
gram along with OEO, Economic Development Administration, Department of Labor and 

several others. 

HANS: It's important you understand the control mechanism of the Department s Man- 

power programs. If I was a tribal representative and wanted to see my people participate 
as fully as possible in Manpower training resources available in the state, I d go to the 

director of State Employment Service and ask exactly what the plans for training are in that 
state. He has this information. Now is the time to make your needs known for the fiscal 


PIERCE: We have some very active labor organizations in Oklahoma. For 25 years, 

I've represented 2 or more of them and I know how they feel about your program. Up to 
now, we've warded them off and kept them away from what little work we have among the 

Cherokees . 

I want advice. Should we continue with a "warding off” attitude or encourage our tribes 

to become identified with labor unions as quickly as they can? 

HANS: My answer would have to be that labor unions as a whole are interested in work- 

ing with you and they can be very helpful. 

The way to get people to cooperate is to work with them in planning and get their active 
support. This is happening and I certainly would suggest that it's the best way to proceed. 

In many cases Manpower Programs are badly needed. States must be structured into it, 
but some "run" scared. They’re afraid. If it concerns one ethnic group, the fat's 

in the fire . I wish they'd quit running from this issue . 

SMITH: I'd like to suggest that consideration be given to groups within a tribe. We 

have degrees of progress within a tribe. To often, programs are designed to get to pro 
gressive Indians within a tribe. I say we have intermediate, progressive and conservative 
groups . In urban planning, serious consideration should be given at the field level to finding 
the number of people in the progressive, intermediate and conservative groups. For all 
you know, you might reach the surface group and think you’re taking care of the tribe! 

GILLILAND: The situation we've experienced in signing one or two Indians at a time 

is that they’ll drop out within a short time. We 're now attempting to assign Indian groups of 





6 to 12 at one time and, also, to maintain a certain percentage of Indian youth. There are 
very few times we've sent more than 12, but our policy is to assign more than one. 

K1TTO: With Job Corps, we find they feel isolated and not "at home. " This doesn't 

have anything to do with civil rights, but more with making a man happy in the position he’s 


GILLILAND: In addition, we're trying to provide Indian staff members. In Utah, one 

has six or seven staff members. 

PIERCE: If he goes there, he's vastly outnumbered and has to use a crowbar just to 

stay. An American Indian won’t do it. What you’re trying to do is make a man out of a boy. 
They've been accustomed all their lives to living with their own. Your main objective is to 
make a productive citizen, but you can't do it if you put 6 or 12 in a camp of 200 or 400. 

Why can't you try a new approach on an experimental basis. 

GILLILAND: I see what you mean and it's true that it probably takes more than 6 or 

12 to es tab lish an atmosphere. Could this atmosphere be established if you had, say, 50 
per cent. Why not use this center as an adjustment period to other ethnic groups by associa- 

If we succeed in keeping the Indian youth for 30 to 60 days, he will, in fact , be one of 
the best Corps men. The problem is keeping him for that 30 to 60 days, so he can adjust. 

JAMES: On this discussion, I disagree. Disagreement is enlightening. We must make 

a life in the non-Indian society. We've only one-half-of one percent of the total population. 

If we isolate ourselves we'll never be assimilated. The only way we can compete, as he 
says, is to put 8 or 12 in a group of 200 to adjust. There’s no other way. The modern, 
complex society will not adjust for us. We're the ones who must make adjustment. There 
is no other way but to change our attitude. We, as Indians, are our own worst enemy, be- 
cause we'd like to cling to the old way of life. I'd like to, but I can't. I can t make a living 

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if I cling to my old way of life. We should not give up our heritage or culture, but we 
must adapt to a non-Indian society and we must begin with our youth. (Applause.) 

MANNING: We sent two youngsters to Job Corps camp. One girl wasn’t there a 
full week before she decided she didn't like it and was on her way home. A boy who 
wasn’t there four days was discouraged and wanted to go home. We’ve tried to talk 
them into staying. The girl went home, but I hope the boy is still there. I was 
wondering what type of reception these youngsters get when they go to a Job Corps 
center. Are they met by someone, properly introduced and perhaps given individual 

GILLILAND: I suspect the procedure will vary from center to center, but basically, 
it calls for a counselor, staff member and Corpsman to meet each incoming individual. 
They'll spend anywhere from three to four hours with an individual when he gets off the 
plane or train. Then, the Corpsman will act as -- what should we say? -- big brother 
or sister, for the next week. They spend time together and the Corpsman introduces 
them to various people. In addition, certain counseling goes on during this week through 
orientation and so forth. 

KATT: Some must completely acclimate to new problems. They find themselves 
in an entirely different group and some aren't sympathetic. They tell us they came home 
because of this reason. I would suggest that they start in one camp where their own 
culture is readily accessible and gradually assimilate the different setting. Start at one 
camp with the conditioning they need and move on to another camp for higher training. 



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GILLILAND: One of our basic problems is the dropout, the kid who leaves because 
of homesickness. This is something we fight, day in and day out. Many times getting 
homesick is disguised in other reasons. He can't admit it so he says he's scared of the 
gangs. Evaluate what anybody tells you. The director is another problem. If he has this 
type of situation in the center, why the devil doesn't he do something about it? You can 
control it. There will be fights and, if you don't watch it, there will be gangs, but there 
are methods that have been successful in developing a residential setting. 

As you know, we have two setups, urban and conservation centers. The conservation 
center is 150 to 250. We’re beginning to wonder if 16 or 17 year olds who appear to have 
adjustment problems shouldn't be automatically assigned to conservation centers with 
instructors to help. Then they could move on to the next center. 

JAKE: This morning they talked about training. They said, "When an Indian 
receives training, he sometimes doesn't get the job. There's a gap." 

We have young people out of high school who went to Oakland for training. How 
much supervision do they receive? You mentioned counseling. You said some people 
don't use the counseling. You know and I know, they're the very ones who need counsel- 
ing the most! 

CARMACK: It's true the world over. People who need counsel most are the last 
to seek it. We have a policy at field assistance offices requiring visits to the individual 
or the family on a scheduled basis for three months after he's on a job whether he calls 
for it or not. Beyond that, there's a point you lose them . However, the training program 
is tailored to the individual in these cases, and there's job placement. We don't own 
housing, except for a transitional period while suitable housing is found. We'd have to 
look into the specific case where she tried to move, but wasn't allowed to. 





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MISS SCHUKER: Is Haskell and other schools like it working to full capacities? 

If not, what are your problems in getting Indian youths to these schools? 

TOMMANEY: Haskell is the only Bureau school which offers post high school 
training exclusively. We have more applications each year than we can take care of. 
We're never at a loss for potential enrollees. 

PIERCE: Mr. Chairman. I move we go on record, thanking the chairman and this 
distinguished panel for what they've done for the Indians of this country this afternoon. 



■' i- 


Excerpted From: 





Chairman John Belindo I 

Director, National Congress of American 

Indians 1 

Washington, D. C. j 

Recorder Don Page 1 

Chief, Technical Services j 

California State Employment Service j 

Sacramento, California j 

Agency Representatives 

Dr. Erwin S. Rabeau 

Charles Rovin 

Other Participants 

Thurman Banks 

Tom W. Dennison 

Miss Lillian Frank 

Jim Hamilton 

Vernon Jackson 

Lee Motah 
Samuel Osborne 

Director, Division of Indian Health I 

U. S. Public Health Service I 

Silver Spring, Maryland 

Chief, Welfare Branch j 

Bureau of Indian Affairs ■ 

Washington, D. C. | 

Iowa Tribe 
Albany, Oregon 


Kaw Tribal Council 
Ponca City, Oklahoma 

Secretary -Treasurer 
Paiute Indian Colony 
Burns, Oregon 

Assistant Director 

Community Action Program, Omaha Tribe 
Macy, Nebraska 

Representative of Confederated Tribes 
Warm Springs, Oregon 

Tribal Councilman, Comanche Tribe 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 


Pawnee Tribal Business Council 
Pawnee, Oklahoma 





Excerpted From 
PANEL NO. 3 (Continued) 


Other Participants (Continued) 
Alvin Smith 

Vice Chief of Eastern Band of Cherokees 
Cherokee, North Carolina 

Buffalo Tiger 


Miccosukee Tribe of Florida 
Miami, Florida 

Lewis Zadoka 


Wichita Indian Tribe of Oklahoma 
Anadarko, Oklahoma 

JAl U 1 1 . WLVi "LUiaLiJJLM'-CSV ■ j. • •■. 

-W 1 .- 



CHAIRMAN: Two of the most important problems confronting the American Indian 
today relate to health and welfare. If we can tune our thinking to these two subjects, I 
think we'll produce some effective results this afternoon. 

DR. RABEAU: In the Indian health program, we've had employment training 
programs for a number of reasons. Our primary purpose is to put more people to work 
in health programs. As a secondary purpose, we make more people employable. While 
our funds are not appropriated for the purpose of making people more employable, this 
follows as a natural by-product. 

Any individual trained in any aspect of the health field has a better concept of 
health and good health practices when he leaves us, and this is valuable. It has a 
multiplying effect. The knowledge of good health is passed to relatives and friends of 
the family and, in a small way, to the community. 

One of the 1,064 licensed practical nurses gets married, has children and is no 
longer working. This woman is not lost to us because she's a better mother and com- 
munity member. 

Probably the largest field for employment of individuals is in health. There are 
a million -and -one jobs in health work. 

We've had to improvise to make up for lack of professionals. The pay is good 
and getting better. Nurses, traditionally the most underpaid of professions -- though 
teachers will argue this — are now starting to get a reasonable wage . This means 
there's a more significant field for young Indian women and that wages and opportunities 
wil become better. 

Sanitary aides is another group we're training along with food service supervisors. 
People who manage food service in a small hospital don't need to be dietitians to super- 
vise preparation of meals, manage the staff and buy or select foods. vVe're also 
training individuals as social work associates. These are semi-skilled fields that pay 
reasonably well . 



The Community Health Aide serves as a bridge between community and individual in 
the health professions by being able to speak the language, understand customs and the 
patient’s viewpoint. They’ve served a very useful purpose. We hope this will extend to more 
and more tribal communities nationwide. Not much of what we're doing is being done across 
the country, but it will be within the next three years. It's my fervent hope that Community 
Health Aides will be a tribal enterprise, not one of Federal Government. 

The American Indian's physical health is not prohibiting him as an individual or as a 
community of individuals from being employable. This doesn't mean there aren t physically 
handicapped or that illness rates aren’t higher than the general population. Studies we've 
made show higher utilization of hospitals and physicians by the unemployed. I suppose it s 

a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg. 

However, there is^ is a health aspect. I think it's fundamental and, very definitely, 
inhibiting more gainful employment for a large percentage of American Indians. For want 
of a better term, call it mental health. This covers many things. Everyone is under strain 
every day. It's how you react to the stresses of life that determines your ability to function 

as a normal individual. 

Many Indian communities are sick in varying degrees. If you're sick, you show it. 
There are recognizable symptoms. But how many of us recognize a sick corpmunity? The 
suicide rate among American Indians is about five times that of the general population. The 
homicide rate is three times higher. These are symptoms of something wrong with such 

Some less violent symptoms are school dropouts, juvenile delinquency, broken homes, 
and one I call "the disorganized community." I know of an Indian community that s totally 
disorganized. They have no formal government, no acknowledged leaders and never agree 
on doing something to improve the community. For example, lack of organized interest in 


your school system or your health program are symptoms of community illness that have 
a definite bearing on ability to be employed and to retain employment. 

The binge drinker becomes known as an unrealiable. Maybe it happens only once a 
month, or once every six months, but it has definite impact on employment, whether you're 
talking about an individual or about a community. You can even talk about our nation, be- 
cause a nation is merely a group of communities. 

CHAIRMAN: When we talk about profiles of poverty, we're talking about mass unem- 

ployment. Forty-five to 50 percent have an annual family income of $1500; housing is 90 
percent below acceptable standards; an average educational level of 5th grade; average age 
at death, 43! These terms explain the Indian problem. This isn't the population of India, 
the poverty-stricken areas of northeast Brazil or undeveloped nations of southeast Asia. 

It describes 380,000 American Indians in 25 states! 

These grim facts are deeply disturbing, and properly so. What can be done to break 
the shackle of poverty, ill health, and lack of education? This is what we're talking about 
today. Since 1955, we've shown steadily increasing gains, even though statistics show the 
infant mortality rate is the highest of any minority group in the United States, or in Uie world ! 
When a child is removed from a health facility environment, he's subject to the rigors of a 
home with inadequate health education. Parents don't know enough about postnatal care. 

There's a stigma attached to welfare. A recommendation has been made that we change 
the name from Division of Welfare in the Bureau to Division of Social Services. 

ROVIN: It just so happens that for several years we've had recommendation to change 

our name to Branch of Social Services and our new Commissioner has quickly approved it. 
Very shortly, we're going to be under the new name. 

I've been employed by the Bureau of Indian Affairs for over 16 years and the tiling that's 
troubled me is that too many people when they think of the problems of Indians think only of 


Bureau of Indian Affairs as the responsible agency, while the local community, the State 
and other Federal agencies are solving the same problems for non-Indians 1 

I believe this is important, not only for additional funds and material resources, but 
also psychologically because Indian people know there are other Federal agency services 
they’re entitled to and that these agencies are aware there are Indian people for whom they’re 


on reservations are eligible for and receive public assistance under the Social 
Security Act just as do non-Indians. Bureau assistance programs are for those states where 
county and state welfare programs aren't in operation for the reservation. Some Indian 
tribes that happen to have resources of their own are contributing to the assistance of their 
needy people. The Bureau’s Assistance Program gives cash to an average of 20. 000 needy 
people a month. Our figures of last year showed that during the winter 58 percent of cases 
we gave assistance to had employable family heads. We refer them to Employment Assist- 
ance. but even Employment will recognize that their record of placing Indians has not been 

very good. 

We know these people would work because, whenever work projects were brought to the 
reservation, there have been more Indian people lined up to go to work than there are jobs 
available. This is a matter of record. On the Northern Cheyenne Reservation in Montana, our 
social workers reported that after the first payday there were so many alarm clocks sold 
the drug stores ran out. These were people who knew - this was new to them ~ that they 
must be at work on time and were interested enough to buy an alarm clock with their first pay- 
check! It’s well to dispel this notion, because there are many unemployed Indians willing to 


We know there are programs to bring industry to the reservation and there are programs 
to assist Indian people to relocate . Development will come , But there's a real lack of work 





opportunities on and around the reservation for people whose age and lack of education prevent 
their entering a competitive labor market. They have families and it's a waste of manpower 
to simply provide them with food and assistance. I'm not thinking in terms of money. It s 

not only a waste of manpower; it's a waste of manhood. 

Many of these heads of families have young children. One tiling that leads a child to 

later employment and interests him in employment is getting an image of a working father 
or mother. He gets a picture of proper responsibility and it's a very worthwhile investment 
for this reason alone. Giving more employment to such people will help keep families together 

and will add to the employability of their children. 

Unfortunately in our own welfare program, we've never had resources to meet this need 
of providing work opportunities instead of assistance. General assistance is one of our 
important programs. We don't ccr.sider it our most important. 

One problem on reservations has been family instability. You can trace this to poverty, 
to lack of ability of the family head to support his family and to other strains and pressures. 
The result is that a number of children on reservations are without homes or in such homes 
that it’s preferable they move away. We provide foster home placement for a little under 
2000 children. I'd like to point out that this requires cooperation of the Indian tribal court, 
because the Bureau of Indian Affairs does not have authority to take fmy child away from his 
home against the wishes of his parents. 

Incidentally, the 2000 la too many because in some cases il we'd been able to work more 
closely with families and if they'd had employment, we might have avoided a family break- 
down and wouldn't have to place the child. We also provide care for 500 to 600 handicapped 
Indian children. There are no federal institutions for these children, but we use state lnstltu- 

tions and pay for the care. 


People are free to come to our social workers. Social work should help people under- 
stand themselves and their problems and face their situation realistically. This requires 
intensive work and we should be doing much more than we are. I don’t think I can say truth- 
fully that we have an adequate welfare program. 

We can give reasons such as insufficient staff and insufficient funds, but the fact remains 

there are needs not being met. I’m not talking about financial help. For each family we’re 
able to help, there are other families we don't reach and, for this reason, I welcome any 
other agency to a reservation. 

I welcome the fact we’re getting away from this tight relationship with the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs and that the nation as a whole is beginning to address itself to the problem. 

CHAIRMAN: I looked through the recommendations report of the Oklahoma City conference 
and, because of demands placed on currently employed social worker staffs, the Committee 

recognized the need for increased social worker positions. 

Other recommendations were adequate funding for an effective, intensive social service 
program, carried out in the interests of Indian people. Muskogee and Anadarko areas esta- 
blish training programs for Indian youth to encourage them to enter the field of professional 
social work. I’d like to ask Mr. Rovin about funding for these positions since many young 
Indians would be interested in them. 

ROVIN: If this were a tribal council meeting, I’d move there be a resolution repeating 

what you said and sending it to the Secretary, the President, the Commissioner of Indian Affairs 

and everyone else. 

This matter of staff is our biggest problem. e don't have enough social workers and we 
know we don't have enough. Our social workers carry a higher average case load than those 

working whole counties! 



I can't say our prospects for 1968 are optimistic, because what's been asked for 
was requested some time ago and I don't expect an increase in social work staff next 
year. It’s always possible because of renewed interests and the President did mention 
Indians in his State of the Union Message. Appropriation authorities may relent a little. 

We’re working on our preliminary budget for 1969 and will be asking for consider- 
ably more social workers. Whether we get them or not is in the lap of the gods. 

TIGER: The Miccosukee Indian tribes have been organized only since 1962. I 
haven't the experience you gentlemen have, but I'd like to ask something. You said 
something about suicide on reservations among Indian people and about babies dying. 

We have no such problem, but we might run into it later and I'd like to know the causes. 

I'm 47 now and I've seen a man kill himself. I’d say that's pretty good to see only 
one in 47 years. Maybe you could point out why people on reservations have this 
problem. Maybe, then, our people will know what to do. 

DR. RABEAU: The reasons include the fact that everyone has their own set of 
values. Different races and backgrounds have different sets of values and you're faced 
with co-existing in a society that has different values than you have. This causes 
conflict. The mandatory school law that says every child shall go to school until he 
reaches 16 is a perfect example. Many Indians don't believe they should force a child 
to do something he doesn't want to do . In my culture, a child doesn't know what to do 
and must do things he may not want to do, because they're for his own good. 

Various Indian groups govern themselves van dus ways . Many Indian groups live 
in extended family situations and their loyalty and their code of behavior are basically 
structured around this extended family. Now, you're living in a society concerned with 
the entire community. The extended family among Indians was the community. You 

",TJx!^»J A’- * 


must now draw up a new set of rules to live by or you'll have utter chaos. 

Unfortunately, you're not living in the simple world you once enjoyed and this 
causes conflict. The clash between cultures is deadly . Incidentally, accidents are 
the leading cause of death among American Indians and over half are motor vehicle 
accidents. To throw in another unhappy figure, over half the motor vehicle accident 
deaths are directly attributable to alcohol . 

We can all identify causes and factors, but we're having trouble coming to grips 
with what is or will be the basic problem that needs solution. 

HAMILTON: If alcoholism and suicides are mental health problems, then why do 
we have a vacancy at Winnebago Hospital? A medical social worker's position has 
been vacant for better than 1-1/2 years and another position has been vacant for some 
time. Many services of immediate nature are paid out of the Indian's individual pocket. 
If we have some mental health problems, why isn't Public Health Service doing some- 
thing to fill these positions? 

DR. RABEAU: That's a very good question. We have a personnel ceiling and 
cannot fill all the open positions. Sometimes it's difficult to recruit professionals. 
We've been moving into the mental health field for the past three years. We recognize 
that it's a major problem. We need 40 percent more people. 

HAMILTON: We intend starting a program to get health aides. A question arose 
about whether the coordinator should be a professional? I don't think so. He should 
be a person who could contact county welfare, Public Health Service and so on. Our 
aides would then make contact with the Indian family because they understand Indians. 

'iU- - 


That has caused a stall. I£ you do decide, we'll get a professional, but who's gotng to 
take a job for only 5 or 6 months. They're not interested in a few months work because 
they want steady employment. They can go someplace else and get it, because they re 

qualified . 

DR. RABEAU: Most community health aide projects have been funded by CAP. 

Most of them hired a professional to act as group leader and coordinator. They 
function a little better under a professional, but it's not absolutely necessary. I'll 
say again that there will never be enough health professionals to meet the need. We 
must, then, extend the professional by having other people do things only the 

professionals have done until now. 

HAMILTON: Dr. Rabeau, I'll take that information back to the tribes. Our 

people are progressing at great speed in some things. One girl got $25 from the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs under another program, and then went to the County. She 

was pretty smart. 

DR. RABEAU: I'd like to hire her. That's the kind of expeditors we need! 

BANKS: I’d like to know what's being done if anything to assist off reservatio 
Indians in health matters. Are any programs available? 

DR. RABEAU: Let me briefly explain the predicament. I said we need 40 percent 
more people. Talking about people is talking about money. Of all the money we spend, 
excluding construction, about 70 percent is salary. Needs are much greater than 
resources and we've always set up priorities. 

Under the Bureau, many Indians weren't being taken care of for several re 
are other resources available to you. You're a resident of a State and a community and, 


like any other citizen of that community, you're entitled to welfare services. I recognize 
there's a great deal of discrepancy in services from community to community and from 
state to state. But, before you go back to some agency and tell them I said to take care of 
you, let me caution that it's still not possible to provide services to Indians who have lost 
their identification with their land status . 

I'd like to be able to provide health care for Indians wherever they are. There's 427 
of your people in the Hawaiian Islands. I'd be very happy to take care of them too, but un- 
fortunately, I don't have the resources. That's why some of your veterans, for example, 
have been told when in need of assistance to go to the Veterans Administration, because this 
means somebody else can be taken care of who otherwise wouldn't be. 

Mrs. Cox tells me of the problem of Indian women who, because they're married to 
non-Indians, can't get services. There are gaps in our program. We recognize them and 
we're trying to improve. 

ZADOKA: You said HEW was a peoples department; Indians are people! I've been an 

Indian all my life and I'm not going to change now! You said you're going to give service 
to people . 

In Oklahoma we have doctors who meet their military duty for two years by looking at 
us and diagnosing our cases. I talked to four of them and got four daggummed different 
opinions and they haven't done anything yet! It makes you kind of mad to go and go; and ask, 
beg and plead; and then have them stand there and say, "We will do this for you." They 
haven't done a cotton -picking thing but look and talk! Of course, I guess it's what we Indians 
expect, because it's all we get - a bunch of gab! There are good facilities and a lot of good 
being done, I grant, but again, we need service! 

DR. RABEAU: Your points are well taken. Whether you believe it or not, the program 

has improved in the last 11 years. 

N 1 ... 



Now, it troubles me that, as an individual, you're dissatisfied. I can't . . . 

ZADOKA (interrupting): As Chief of the Wichita tribe I'm dissatisfied because I've got 

570 dissatisfied people! 

DR. RABEAU: I keep telling my doctors that if the patient doesn't take the medicine 

you prescribe, you've failed just as much as if you hadn't made the right diagnosis. You're 
getting the finest doctors in the country. We get the cream of the crop in our program. 

We get 9 or 10 times as many applications as we have positions to fill. We have three times 
the number of positions in the program now as when I took over in 1955. 

I can reminisce with you about the "good old days" of Doc Jones who was the only doctor 
there for 15 years. Now, we've got 8 and 9 doctors in the same place, but they come and 
they go. One reason they come and go is your own fault, because you haven't made them 
feel they're wanted! Yes, between 60 and 70 percent are physicians fulfilling military obliga- 
tions. Without the military obligation we wouldn't be able to staff as we do. Physicians 
are a funny group. Most of them feel that if they're away from medical centers and the 
newest things in medicine that they're isolated and left behind. 

These are good reasons. It's almost impossible for a physician going into practice 
today to keep up with the changes in medicine. There hi r e been more medical discoveries 
in the last 10 years than in the last 2000 years. So a big problem is getting physicians 
content to stay in relatively isolated places. 

A doctor's work is best done with the confidence of his patient. How does he get the 
confidence of his patient? He understands his patient's needs; not only the patient's, but 
the patient's family and the patient's community. 

Physicians are in short supply. Everyone is competing for them. How can we compete 
for them? We can't give them money so we give them a challenge. But no matter how 
challenging it may be, it will be frustrating if they feel people don't appreciate what they're 
trying to do. 

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ZADOKA: That's correct, but I went four weeks and got four different opinions from 

four different doctors and, so help me I didn't say anything t o them . They didn't give 
me a chance to get acquainted. I talked to them as any gentleman would. 

DR. RABEAU: This is a fault of the system. 

ZADOKA: I'm not criticizing the doctors, just the service. If I'd had the same doctor, 

we could have come to understand each other and. maybe, develop a friendship. The way 
it was, I just knew him as doctor so-and-so. The facilities are good; there s nothing wrong 
with them; but the doctors -- well. 

DENNISON: I feel Public Health and Welfare Services are, perhaps, most important 

because, when our Indians come to us as leaders and ask for help, it means a life is at stake. 

Welfare and Public Health have good programs, but we feel, particularly in Public Health, 
that you don't know all that goes on out in the field. We've tried to get acquainted with the 
doctors. I had meetings with Public Health officials in Washington. They gave the same 
story you've given us today. The five Pawne Agency tribes formed a Council and sent a 
member from one tribe to the hospital each day to work with doctors. But getting acquainted 
and telling some 5000 to 8000 Indians they must accept the ways of one doctor is utterly 

In sending out these doctors, you should tell them the people wiey're working with have 
a far different background than they do. These doctors should be orientated before diey're 
sent into the field to meet our people. 

We know the clinics and hospitals have increased and Tubercular Sanitariums have been 
closed. But we must note that during the past 20 years, the Indian population has increased 
tremendously and much of the increase in patients is due to our population increase. 

We had a man seriously injured in an accident and in the hospital. The County 
and state wouldn't do anything for him, because he was an Indian. The Public Health Service 



of the Bureau of Indian Affairs should take care of him. Why should they take funds from 
our taxpayers in Kansas, when Federal people take care of you, they said. I went to Public 
Health in Oklahoma City, and they said, "We'll get this straightened out immediately." 

That boy lay in the hospital 6 weeks before we received a very evasive answer. These 
things have disturbed us. We feel this is important, because it isn't something we can wait 
on or put off. This is why all Indians put so much importance on Public Health and throw 
this load on your shoulders. People tell us, as Indian leaders, "My husband hasn't worked 
for several weeks. We have 8 kids and no milk or anything to eat." We go to Welfare and 
they say, "They're not living on tribal property any longer, so they must go to the City or 
County for help." Well, these kids must eat that night! Where's the money to come from 
while they're investigating to find what funds will feed these kids? As a result, we leaders 
dig the money out of our own pockets. Thank God I have the money to give them, but I can 
look around and see Indian leaders who aren't so fortunate. They can't give money for 
hospital, food, clothing, or to pay for utilities and heat. 

I'd like to impress on you that we're working with the lives of these people and if 
you're going to continue the services, which we hope you do, let's give them the 

best we have . 

SMITH: We've been listening to discussion of discrimination. The Federal Government 
approved our role, covering all Indians from 16 up, but Public Health then came along and 
said the only eligibles are Indians of quarter-blood and more. 

We're pleased with our hospital and the doctors. Last winter, they had both county hospi 
tals filled and one patient in our 30-bed Cherokee Hospital, so I don't think we're utilizing 
our facilities to best advantage. 

We're trying to improve living conditions on the reservation. We're doing a pretty good 
job, but when they reach a certain wage, they're ineligible to enter our hospital for care. 


That isn't right to us. After they advance, they're discriminated against. We have 
the problem of no hospital to go to because both local hospitals are full at all times, 
and we're ineligible to go to our own hospital! We d like to work it out so that, even 
though you're under a hospitalization plan and have certain income and aren't on the 
roll, you could go to this hospital, but pay the fare. We're willing to pay it. We 
would certainly appreciate Public Health's studying it. 

DR. RABEAU: We are studying it and, I promise you, we're going to make some 
changes . 

MOTAH: I live in Oklahoma City and I'm supposed to be a white man I guess, 
because I can't use the old hospital and I can't use our new one either. You talk 
about suicide. We've lost some children because we couldn't get medical aid! We'd 
go to welfare, or some county clinic, and they'd say, "Go to BIA. Go to the Indian 
hospital. They'll take care of you." That's been thrown in our face 'till we don't know 
where to go! Some children have died! That's suicide? Who shall we point to? 

Doctor, study the Oklahoma health situation so we can use our own hospitals. 

We need them . These Oklahoma people can verify that there was an old Indian at the 
clinic who died on the bench waiting! We want services! 

OSBORNE: Why is it you can't call a doctor to get service at the hospital? 

CHAIRMAN: You mean you can't call him at his residence during the night to 
come to the hospital? 

OSBORNE: You can't call his residence to report an accident. At least four 

of my tribe died because of this . 

DR. RABEAU: You should be able to call the hospital and there's supposed to be 
a doctor on duty . 



OSBORNE: I wish you'd come down just as soon as you can. That's what I'd like. 

DR. RABEAU: All right. I'm coming to Oklahoma April 12th to talk to the inter- 
tribal council. 

One last word for you Oklahoma people. I'm changing the staff. I'm putting in a 
new area director and a new executive officer and, the next time we have a meeting, I 
think Oklahomans will be quiet while I catch hell from other areas . 

JACKSON: I have a question directed to all of you. Have you fellows ever gotten 
together and talked about housing, welfare, jobs, and all these things, and planned on 
top level, instead of having your henchmen do it? Do you ever get into the actual 
planning yourselves? 

DR. RABEAU: I'm glad you brought up that point. The local level is where most 
coordination has been. Doctors, hospitals, agency superintendents and others talk to 
one another. Because I've insisted on this and the Bureau has agreed with me, we've 
now set up regular meetings. We're studying all programs. It doesn't do any good to 
have a hospital or clinic if the Indian can't get to it. One subject we're studying now 
is a public transportation system for reservations. Now, this may not be much of a 
problem in Oklahoma, but it's the thing we discuss in frequent meetings. 

JACKSON: I'm. not quite satisfied. All these big wheels put out statements about 
hundreds of millions of dollars available for this and that. Do you fellows get together 
at this level? 

DR. RABEAU: Yes sir, but our role is a relatively small one. We can do 
nothing about construction, for instance. 

JACKSON: I know, but fellows are decision makers. If you're meeting at 
highest level, and if you decide a project will be done, it seems it should bel 




ROVIN: Your main point is well taken. There hasn't been enough coordi lation 
in connection with housing. Of course, the housing authority may have their own 
limitations. I'm not completely familiar with this, but I know an informal committee 
has been set up, representing different departments, to find ways to coordinate their 

different programs. 

Excerpted From: 






Gerald R . Parrish _ . . 

Regional Director, USES (San Francisco) 

Berkeley, California 

Edmond V. Worley 

Regional Director, USES 
Cleveland, Ohio 

Agency Representatives 

Thaine D. McCormick 

Dr. T. P. Whelan 

Dr. James Wilson 

Other Participants 

Russell R. Benedict 

Ray Boyer 

Victor A. Charlo 

James M. Cox 

William E. Finale 

Regional Representative 
Bureau of Adult & Vocational Education 
U.S. Department of Health, Education, and 

Kansas City, Missouri 

Field Representative 
Office of Education 

U. S. Department of Health, Education, and 

Kansas City, Missouri 

Chief, Office of Economic Opportunity, 
Indian Division 

Representative, South Dakota Sioux 
Washington, D. C. 

Staff Assistant, Rincon Band 
San Luiseno Mission Indians 
Poway, California 

Local Office Manager 

Minnesota State Employment Service 

Bemidji, Minnesota 

Field Representative 
University of Utah 
Missoula, Montana 

Tribal Representative 
Comanche Indian Tribe of Oklahoma 
Midwest City, Oklahoma 

Deputy Assistant Commissioner 
Community Services 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Washington, D. C. 




Excerpted From: 

, PANEL NO. 4 (Continued) 



Other Participants (Continued) 
Adrian Foote 

Wallace Galluzzi 

Alfred Gilpin 

Jim Hena 

Mrs . Florence Kinley 
Gordon E. Kitto 
Robert Lewis 

Andrew Lopez 

W. E. McIntosh 

Mrs . Vynola Newkumet 
Rueben Robertson 

Martin J . Sampson 

Charles M. Schad 

Vice Chairman, Tribal Council 
Ft. Berthold, Newtown, North Dakota 
Raub, North Dakota 

Haskell Institute 
Lawrence, Kansas 


Omaha Tribe of Nebraska 
Macy, Nebraska 

Technical Assistant 
Indian Community Action Project 
Arizona State University 
Tempe, Arizona 

Lummi Indian Tribe 
Marietta, Washington 

Treasurer, Santee Sioux Tribe 
Winnebago, Nebraska 

Assistant Director 

White Earth Community Action Program 
White Earth, Minnesota 

Staff Technician with Minority Group Specialist 
Employment Commission of New Mexico 
Albuquerque, New Mexico 

Principal Chief, Creek Nation 
Tulsa, Oklahoma 

Representative, Caddo Tribe 
Norman, Oklahoma 

Tribal Council Member 
Flandreau Santee Sioux 
Flandreau, South Dakota 

Representative for Secretary -Treasurer, 
Snoqualmie Tribe 
Tacoma, Washington 

Director, Special Services 
Black Hills State College 
Spearfish, South Dakota 

9 . 

Excerpted From: 

PANEL NO. 4 (Continued) 


Other Participants (Continued) 

Stanley Smartlowit 


Yakima Tribal Council 
Toppenish, Washington 

Lawrence Snaki 


Delaware Tribal Council 
Midwest City, Oklahoma 

r T* T 


CHAIRMAN: I'm not going to pose as an expert on education. This comes, I'm 
sure, as a relief to our colleagues in the educational field who, too often, feel that 
we Department of Labor people pretend to know more about educational policy and 
philosophy than they do. I make no such claim. I also do not claim to be an expert on 
problems and needs of the Indian. 

I make a plea that all of you speak with complete truth. Too often, we try to put 
the best possible face on our programs. I want you to avoid such defensive approach at 
all costs . This meeting will mean nothing unless we have a complete, candid, frank 
expression of views, ideas, opinions and feelings. 

DR. WILSON: The Community Action Program is part of the total operation of 
Office of Economic Opportunity. While the title may sound impressive, it isn't so. It 
consists of myself and three analysts. We use someone else’s secretary. 

We see Community Action Programs as a process of accomplishing goals. When 
OEO started, they used a postcard application system. It's now become quite complicated 
and we're concentrating more on the process itself. 

Education is meaningless unless people who get it understand what it's for. It's 
easy to see objectives, but not see how to get there and this is the primary aspect of 
education. As in raising children, it's necessary to make the steps of learning small so 
that you can almost guarantee success from one step to the next. If an adult were to walk 
a path, putting a stone in each of his tracks, and then ask a child to step only on those 
stones, there'd be many failures. The idea, then, is to put stones between the stones and 
an individual starting the educational process is almost guaranteed success. 

One danger here, of course, is in someone "above" placing these stones. They may 
lead a direction the tribal group doesn't want to go. The stones can be placed just right, 


but in the wrong direction. We're talking about a partnership because we're learning at 
the same time the tribe is learning. We sit together, where possible, and ask, "Where 

does the next stone go?" 

When I talk about agencies, I'm not just talking about Federal agencies. One ihing 
we've run into, quite frankly, is the willingness of state people to say some mighty nice 

sounding things, but then not come through. 

There are now 22 states with Indian commissions. I learned just today one state has 

cut its appropriation for support of the Indian commission because of the flow of Federal 
funds. About the time the Indian begins to build some confidence in the system, the steps 
are made bigger Someone has control of the stepping stones and is moving them without 

consulting the tribes involved. 

In addition to our regular CAP process, we fund a number of educational programs. 

We have prime responsibility for out-of-school population. In some cases we re working 


On one Apache reservation, we attempted to make them do things that fit our regula- 
tions. I was quite proud when they shipped these things back and said, "Forget it." 
Eventually, we worked it out and they were pleased. The result was something, they 

felt, of their own. 

I'm not advocating, by any means, that everyone be belligerent. One success can lead 
to another, however, and this is the educational process itself. The shorter the step, the 
more likely is success. 

No one really has the answer to how you make a group o£ people tiiink as a unit, so you 
must come up with a certain consensus. We've been working for sometime to get other 
agencies involved on the local level. It has become too tempting and too easy for someone 
"upstairs" to project his ideas to people supposedly engineering their own placement of 



stepping stones. I think it's necessary to provide small steps for failure too, so we don't 
fall back all the way . 

I was in the Navy and attended several technical schools, so I have certificates . I 
have a diploma from high school and two or three college degrees . If I put them all on 
the wall, they'd make me no more capable than if I'd never seen them. They bring you 
to a point of readiness, but at the time you're supposedly ready, you must attack the 
problem that faces you. It is hoped these certificates indicate, to some extent, that you've 
prepared yourself and are ready to attack in a number of directions . 

I talked with a man, coming here on the plane. I told him I was an Indian. He said 
he was sad because he'd been thinking recently that if he were left out alone he couldn't 
survive, but could probably help somebody reach the moon. He had a Ph.D. in a narrow 
field of science . He had this small bit to offer, but no idea of the total system . 

McCORMICK: I was a little chagrined when I looked at the topic because I'm with 
Vocational Education. Then your chairman said we were to be honest and I don't know 
where this really leaves me. I'm not an expert. I used to be, but then I succumbed to 
administration and the process sets in where you know less and less about more and more. 
It's been so effective with me, I now feel I know darn near nothing about darn near every- 
thing! Maybe that's the reason I got my job with Federal government. (Laughter.) 

With new legislation, we have charge of occupational training for less than professional 
level. Our approach is to develop area vocational technical schools. There is significant 
development in the field of vocational education on a much broader basis than the old 
vocational education program and it may be of value on the reservations to meet needs of 
your people. 

Under Vocational Education, administered jointly with Employment Security, is 
Manpower Development and Training . 


I think there are 17 pieces of Federal legislation with an oar in the water in basic 
education There is great need for coordination. 

There are people on the road in what we call our Teacher Training Services who can 
be of great help in developing your facilities and your instructional staff for these programs. 

This service you can tap because to prepare people for occupations, you must have teachers 
with occupational competency. 

Another service, administered through our Bureau and which may help you, is the 
Library Services Act which has funds available for the addition of supplies and books to libraries 
for construction of public libraries and for development of coordinated programs between 
libraries . 

Sometimes, our educational program is not realistically geared to the needs of society 
when we look at it in relation to the individual, the economy, business and industry. The 
fact we have unemployment, dropouts and out-of-work youth and adults at a time when 
every employer is looking for help is testimony that somewhere along the line we've missed 
the boat in developing this country's educational program. 

Maybe, in development of our educational philosophy, we've come dangerously close 
to looking to our schools as a place to educate children in not working. I don't know. I've 
talked to many parents on back -to -school nights, and they'll ask the standard question, 

"How is my Johnny doing?" You say, "He's doing fine." Then they say, We hope he s 
doing fine because we don't want him working as poor old dad has worked. " I used to shock 
these parents sometimes by asking, "What the hell is wrong with work? It's the basis by 

which we achieved our standard of living. " 

DR. WHELAN: I'm involved strictly with student financial aid in higher education; 

National Defense Student Loan Program, Guaranteed Loan Program, College Work Study 
program and Educational Opportunity Grant Program. These are available to all students. 


■Ut 1 iiWFiii-iJU' i iJ.i .'>vr 


Under National Defense Student Loan program, an undergraduate student can borrow 
up to $1, 000 a year for educational expenses to a maximum of $5, 000. The graduate 
student can borrow as much as $2, 500 a year to a maximum of $10, 000. 

Interest on these loans is three percent and the first payment would come due 
either 10 months or one year after he stops being a full-time student. In the past, these 
loans had a grace period of one year after school, and it was an additional year before 
his first payment was due. This was changed in 1965. Rates and repayments are 
improved. The Guaranteed Loan Program doesn't have the new cancellation features, 
but the interest rate is the same. 

The College Work Study Program is administered by the college. The Educational 
Opportunity Grant Program is an outright grant to the student of from $200 to $800. it 
can never exceed more than half the cost of education for the student. These programs 
are available to everyone. 

The health professions have all the programs we have in higher education, and 
they're exactly the same. 

BENEDICT: We have many, many Indian groups on which Federal programs have 
made no impact. I'd like to make it a matter of record that technical assistance and 
grants are the most urgent need for all Indian tribes too small to have their own 
governmental structure. Frustration has resulted from the stones being so far apart 
you can't even jump to them. 

CHAIRMAN: Dr. Wilson, I think you were asked a question. 

DR. WILSON: Right. That's rough! 


BENEDICT: I respectfully invite Dr. Wilson's comments. I know it was more a declar 

ation than a question. 

DR. WILSON: The operation of the Indian Division of OEO was restricted to Federal 

Indian reservations as a result of muddled national Indian policy. There are a number of 
people who think that terminating services to a reservation will make an Indian a white man 

and, therefore, no longer eligible for Indian services . 

This is particularly confusing in California where there are several different situations. 

A number of tribes have been terminated. A number have been recognized, but not accepted 
for Federal services. Rather than get into confused areas, it was restricted to those on 
clearly defined Federal Indian reservations. 

As you have rightfully pointed out, the people in California were ignored, to large extent, 
in providing technical assistance. 

BENEDICT: Of the 12 reservations I referred to, none have been terminated. All are 

true Federal reservations. Those to which I refer have a population of some 2000 or 3000 
and perhaps 60, 000 acres of land. 

CHAIRMAN: I'm very happy you got here, Mr. Benedict. When I talked to you by 
phone, it looked questionable. Did you make it on your own? 

BENEDICT: I'm here on my own nickel. 

KITTO: We've been trying to get money from Economic Opportunity for the last two 

years, but it seems we don't get to first base. I'm more interested in education. I educated 
five children who are teachers teaching non- Indians. Back in the 1940' s, when I put my kids 
through college, I went broke three times and I still hove another one to put through. 

Adult education is a wonderful thing for us old fellows, because we never realized what 
money was. If we could understand the value of the dollar and what percentage of it we own, 


I think Indian people would go a long way in this world. When it comes to money, that's 
white man's culture. Hunting is the Indian's culture. But <hey've abolished our adult 
education! Where do we go now? 

McCORMICK: I'd contact Cecil Stanley at Lincoln, Nebraska and tell him your 


LEWIS: One of the most successful programs on the White Earth Reservation has 

been the high school equivalency component. We're bussed some 20 miles to a consolidated 
school in the evenings . At present, we have 74 Indians attending this high school equiva- 
lency course. The amazing thing about it is that most of these 74 Indians are well over 30 
and some are in their 40's and 50's. I think the oldest is a gentleman of 63. That's how 
much they think of high school equivalency and adult education! 

CHAIRMAN: Perhaps the subjects our two speakers confined themselves to are not 

what you ladies and gentlemen came here to talk about. 

MRS. NEWKUMET: Are National Defense loans and the Work Study program applied 

for by universities or by Indians also? 

WHELAN: Students apply through the college. Practically all major universities and 

colleges in the country have these programs. 

LCPEZ: Approach someone with this educational loan idea, let's say, on an Indian 

reservation. The family's average income is $1200 a year and the individual has grown up, 
trying to live with this income. Tell him what he must pay back and all that. He has pro- 
blems just living! This reason was given me in many cases when I tried to tell individuals 
to take advantage of educational loans. 

CHAIRMAN: Maybe there's an information gap here and people do not understand 

what's available. 

LOPEZ: I would say that's part of the problem. This tiling faces you after completing 

your education and provides a block. 



GALLUZZI: Before coming to Haskell, I spent five years in the Aberdeen area office, 

traveling and counseling with Indian college students. Some responsibility must lie with 
the college, because too many times, when an Indian student is involved, a limited amount 
of funds means financial difficulties although you must be sympathetic with the college. 

It's easy for the college to call someone involved with assisting Indians and ask them to 
work with the Indian student. I've been asked many times by coaches to assume some 
athletic scholarships with Indian grant money so their money can be used for a student who 
doesn't have such sources. 

This source, too, has a limit, of course, and sometimes our Indians get caught in 
between. Sometimes colleges have shifted this responsibility and I think this accounts for 
some Indian students not getting these programs. To be frank with you, when it's a loan 
program, many times they're better off not getting involved with it, rather than getting too 
involved. Some of our people have had very unfortunate experiences. 

COX: I'm quite encouraged by many of these comments. Maybe I'm displaying my 
ignorance, but it appears to me we lack communication. The word hasn't gotten around to 
everyone. I'm sure there are many people in this room who are quite elated with news 
they've heard here. I, for one, have heard some tilings for the first time at tills session. 

There would be great advantage in communicating with various tribal organizations to 
make them aware of these various programs. I happen to work for the government. I'm 
well aware of the white tape many people have referred to. It appears there's a real need 
for advising people of what's available. 

We have people in our area who are very well qualified, are excellent material, but are 
continually groping for information. 

I would recommend consideration of a relatively simple means of communicating with 
all Indians wherever they may be to advise them of available programs. 


WHELAN: Breakdowns in communication, I guess, will always occur. Yet, every 

high school and every junior high school in the United States has received this material. 

It's kind of hard to guess what to do next. 

COX: I think that's an excellent means of communication. Certain materials, re- 

gardless of agency, could be made available to various tribal governments. Having some- 
thing to do with tribal government, we communicate with one another continuously. This 

sounds like a fine means of advising everyone. 

DR. WILSON: Some of you are familiar with our Federal catalog of individuals and 

communities. This has been one of our biggest successes. But they now publish one that 
costs $75, so most people won't get their hands on it. These are nothing like Sears Roebuck 
or Montgomery Ward catalogs by comparison. Perhaps a recommendation could come from 
this gathering that such a catalog be prepared, so you'd have it in one book. I think it 
would be very helpful. I'm sure there are programs we don't even know about. 

SAMPSON: This isn't exactly on the subject at hand, but in 1933, we asked for a fund, 

and in 1938, finally got it from the state. Our children were going to public schools and 
under the treaties we were guaranteed a paid education, v/e took that money, since the 
state educates everyone anyway, and established scholarships. After a good many years, 
we forgot about them. All at once, the money was transferred from the scholarships by 
the state and they bought busses with it so our pupils could be transported from reserva- 
tions to public schools. Now I'm an old man. I'm 78 and retired from Civil Service, but 
we must keep those scholarships! 

MRS. KINLEY: The problem in communication, I believe, is because information 

to tribal councils and the people on a reservation must cross a void between the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs and the tribe. A tribal council may not be paid. When they have information, 
how can they get it to the people who need it when they must make a living at the same time? 



They’re not paid to go beat the bushes, so to speak, to reach these people and tell them 
what's available and who's eligible. 

SMARTLOWIT: It would be well for the people here to understand the problems we ve 

experienced in regards to our education directors and education specialists. The Yamimas 
are more fortunate because we have a director and a specialist, but feel we could use two 
more. Our reservation is in four different districts, and to have only two men cover this 

country is impossible . 

We made a small survey of our Indian children from 1st to 8th grade and found these 
little people functionally retarded. They're not mentally retarded. They have intelligence, 
but need somebody to stir them up, to make them think, and remedial education is one of 
our important programs. Last year, we had remedial education for six weeks. 

We're concerned here today and tomorrow with employment. We must get these people 
trained while they're still young. We need more education specialists because communica- 
tion would be reality if we had specialists working for our tribal members. 

FINALE: Many national programs affect the Indian the same way they affect any other 

person, but we usually run into serious difficulties because money is appropriated by some 
kind of formula. The great emphasis is on urban areas with very little on rural areas where 
we find Indians. This is also the case with Manpower, so when you talk about an entire 
state program, you have very little allocation to carry it out. Yet, within those states, 
you have isolated areas where the economic situtation is very, very bad. 

I'm wondering whether or not exceptions could be made and recommendations made to 
change the law for specific situations so a greater impact can be made. If we continue, 
as at present, the impact on reservations will be about the same as it is - minimal. 

McCORMICK: What you say is very true. Both North and South Dakota draw slightly 

more than a half-million dollars for Manpower which is not enough to do the job. It may 



As of June, we’re trying to get out of this built-in straight jacket and trying to cut 
back on Federal employees. In other words, instead of asking for $100, 000 or $800, 000, 
and along with it, 40 or 50 more Federal employees, we're trying to save a substantial 
amount of money to either go into a direct contractual arrangement with tribes for specific 
programs or to utilize agencies within the state with which the tribe has a good relation- 
ship. We'll have greater flexibility than ever because we're not tying dollars to people. 

BENEDICT: I consider the most exciting development in the Anti-poverty Program 

to be the Nelson Amendment. It will cover the gap between vocational and professional 
training. The whole idea of new careers for subprofessional people in a dozen different 
professions is worth comment. 

CHAIRMAN: Dr. Wilson, can you give a brief of the Amendment? 

DR. WILSON: Well, a certain amount of money was appropriated. There was a good 

deal of inter-agency activity regarding who was going to administer the program. The 
last word we had was that the Labor Department was working out guidelines. We sort of 
"developed" the idea, listening to talk that the Scheuer Programs were aimed primarily at 
urban areas. There's been some feeling on our part that this isn't likely to be a major 
source of employment. There must be some promise of employment before this Nelson 
type training is undertaken. 

CHAIRMAN: I know they will be adult work training programs in subprofessional 

categories and the Department of Labor will administer them somewhat as Youth Corps 
Programs have been administered. 

BENEDICT: It looks like the answer to a terrific need above vocational and trade 

level where so many social service and subprofessional medical people are needed on re- 



be a bit political that emphasis is being placed on metropolitan areas. It may be a 
problem for society to have a few city blocks of people living in poverty, but it's equally 
important and critical for a rural person in poverty. Perhaps this conference could 
bring the attention of Federal powers to this problem. In sparsely populated States, it s 
equally as serious as in metropolitan areas . 

McINTOSH: The Secretary of the Interior has money appropriated en masse for 
the Bureau of Indian Affairs. He could allocate this money to Indians in rural 

FINALE: This is a fallacy. Money is not appropriated to the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs en masse or to the Secretary. We go to the Bureau and then the Bureau goes to 
Congress to justify a specific operation. The Bureau's operation is unique in this 
respect. Look at OEO, MDTA, HEW or any Federal program. All are grant programs. 

The Bureau is an operational program and we don't have flexibility to say, "This 
year, we're going to put money here, " because we're answerable to Congress. 

McINTOSH: Beyond any shadow of doubt, rural area Indians are not being provided 
for. When the Bureau goes before Congress and asks for certain appropriations, why 
don't they include enough for the Indian in his various communities where the need is 

FINALE: We're limited because our budget fits into the National budget and there's 
a ceiling. We must live within the total Federal structure and we're not masters of our 
own fate in this respect. 

HENA: You touched on summer institutes and I wonder if this program might be 
applicable for training orientation programs for tribal councils or members of 
governing bodies on Indian reservations? 

WHELAN: NDEA Institutes are for teachers in high school or junior high school 
in various fields. I have two or three booklets here on the summer institutes. 

MRS. NEWKUMET: Mr. Finale mentioned the possibility that BIA could work 
through tribal leaders, universities or through functioning organizations already in 
the State . I'd like to hear what tribal leaders have to say about these plans . 

DR. WILSON: Bill, weren't you talking about possibilities of subcontracting 
services you now provide? 

FINALE: True. In Montana we're trying to contract with tribal groups to provide 
law and order services. Now, we wouldn't enter into a contract unless there was 
involvement of the tribe and a willingness of the tribe to accept responsibility. In the 
past, the tribe has said to us, "Look, it's all Bureau and we don't have a say in the 
programs." If we get this flexibility and get into a contractual relationship, we can 
do what tribal leaders are asking us to do . 

We've also entered into joint contracts. We have one in cooperation with OEO 
and HUD in construction of some 300 units. We're getting a lot more in terms of 
services and Indians are getting a lot more in terms of benefits from this arrangement 
because a little money from one agency coupled with money from other agencies goes 
much further . 

FOOTE: We just undertook a contract for law and order and all they allocated to 
the tribe is $2, 400 to pay a judge. That isn't enough. Is this going to be the same way? 

FINALE: I can't agree with you more. We haven't been able to get our funds 
raised for law and order for the past six years. We can't put more into it than is 
made available . We know what the problem is, but we can't do anything if we don't get 
money to make contracts. 


FOOTE: I have another question on MDTA training programs. How much white 
tape must you go through to get an extension on a going program? Must you go through 
all forms again and wait for one or two months? 

McCORMICK: I could answer by saying quite a iot, but contact your Employment 
Security Office and they'll help you wade through it. 

FOOTE: How about facilities under vocational training? My reservation is cut by 
a dam. We're in five different areas and are short on facilities to carry out our 
programs. Is there a possibility of getting funds for building? 

McCORMICK: Well, you can't hit a home run unless you get up to the plate. All 
I can say is, contact your State Director and get him fighting on your side. Get behind 

him and then help him fight . 

HENA: I want to follow up the comments this fellow from North Dakota is making. 
One problem Indians experience, when meeting with Federal officials, is that meetings 
are called in various metropolitan areas, and commuting, for many tribal leaders, 
creates transportation and housing problems. TTiere's not enough money for a tribal 
representative to sit here and discuss problems related to his reservation. It would 
behoove all Federal agencies to contemplate conducting meetings in rural areas where 
the people are more free to express their ideas. 

My own reservation is about 75 miles north of Albuquerque and our tribe doesn t 
have money . We don't pay our tribal officials . We must find someone who has an 
automobile and is willing to give up eight hours work to transport tribal leaders. These 
people pay their own way for meals, lodging and what have you. This needs to be 
considered when Federal officials call meetings . 


i -uuurme 

Jl II U I ■ P. ■ I JJ.I 


SAMPSON: A comment on law and order the Chief was talking about. It's a 
problem for us. You recall, Congress passed #108 and #280, turning law and 
order over to the States. The State of Washington accepted by passing #240. Some 
of our tribes adopted State law and order and did away with our tribal courts. 

I'm going to give you an example of the result. You can laugh about this all 
you want. What I'm going to relate is not true everywhere. We have a house on the 
Swinomish reservation. I'm living at Tacoma, stuck there since I retired from 
Civil Service . We have this house stocked with dishes, a stove and other things . 
Somebody broke into the place and stole a few things. I couldn't report it to the 
council because the council had no authority to do anything. They could make an 
arrest and say, "We're going to try this fellow, " but they have no court. Then the 
State courts say, "We have no jurisdiction on that reservation. " The following year 
I was away and they struck again. I put up a sign; "Use the door, it is open, " and 
they took me at my word. They picked up the stove and took it out through the door! 

This man is from the Washington office. I'm doggone glad he s here because 
I've written him several times and this is the first time I've seen, him . 

We must come to some decision. Either the State is going to rule on that reser- 
vation and enforce law and order, or get the U.S. Government to do it. Same way 
with our fisheries . The Indian is caught between the Fe deral Government and the 
State. I'd like to get that settled somehow. 

BOYER: One suggestion to tribal council members here. Invite your local 
Office Manager or District Director of the Employment Service to attend your 
council meeting. I'm sure he'll attend. He'll be glad to participate in your discussions 
involving employment and manpower problems. 


CHAIRMAN: That's a good point and I'm sorry I neglected it. While these 
projects will be contracted with community sponsorship directly by Department of 
Labor and with the Bureau involved, State Employment Services will have responsibility 
for recruitment, screening and selection of candidates for training. 

FOOTE: I'd like to see more Indians working in State and County agencies. We 
don't have many Indians on county boards. We're overruled and outvoted by the white 
majority even in school districts. My children go to public school off the reservation. 
They miss band and athletic programs because they have to ride back and forth in a 
bus. Some of them are in a bus 1-1/2 hours. 

Take meetings such as this one. Just tribal chairmen are invited, yet we have 
committees within tribal councils, a chairman of education, of employment, and so on. 
The chairmen can’t come here and take in all panel discussions, although there's 
something good brought out in each one. How can he take it back home and discuss 
it with his people? These meetings should be closer to us. This way we don't get 
enough information back to them . 

KITTO: I was listening to this gentleman talk about school. We solved our 
education problems between the paleface and the redman. We called a big gripe 
meeting" two years ago because of too many dropouts in our high school. It panned 
out too, because we got a counselor in our high school. Since then, our dropout rate 
has been pretty light. I think we’ve had only one so far this year. Our Indian 
children are doing well in school. We have a very good paleface superintendent 
working for our people. We've been negotiating for an extra bus to carry Indian boys 

who participate in athletics. 

It's up to us Indians. If we want any tiling, we must fight for it. The white man 
is never going to read your mind. 




LEWIS: Speaking as a paleface who works for the redskin, we have an exceptionally 
high dropout rate. We have dropouts in junior and senior years; good students and not 
just kids who aren't making the grade. We have kids with good C, C+, or A averages 
who drop out as late as a month or six weeks before graduation! 

When you investigate individual cases and if you get the truth from the kids them- 
selves, because you very seldom get it from the parents, it s because the kids can t 
buy clothes for the prom, they can't buy a class ring, or a graduation picture for the 
yearbook. It's not because of being bussed from school to home that they can't 
participate in athletics or can't participate in band. 

One suggestion is to have small scholarships provide these things. This, 
possibly, is an answer if we can find a source for funds. I think this can be whipped. 
We're presently working on it and, possibly, can get some of our businessmen to help, 
both white and Indian. I know in our locality these men don't want the kids to drop 
out of school because they're potential customers, for one thing. 

It's a sad day when a kid goes all the way through high school, then decides his 
pride has the best of him and he must quit. We're going to whip that situation if we 
have to buy special busses to do it. 

CHARLO: It seems to me that the real problem with Indian education is Civil 
Service. Last week when we met with Commissioner Bennett, we asked the same 
thing; "In our Bureau schools, is there a way we could break Civil Service so when we 
get teachers who aren't good teachers, we can put them out?" He said, "No." This 
is an impossible position. I wish Dr. Marburger were here today, because I wanted 
to ask about his imaginative programs I've heard about. 

Can these imaginative programs work using the same people? It's hard to believe 
they can. Until something is done about Civil Service ratings, I think the situation will 



go on and on until somebody, perhaps the Indian people, finally say, "You know we 
don’t want this and our children aren't going back to these schools until something 

is done about the situation." 

SCHAD: I came here to find what we could do in our teacher training program . 

We’ve contacted every reservation in South Dakota with the hope that every youngster 
planning to go to college gets information on college programs and financial aids. 

We have 52 Indian students enrolled now, which isn't great, but I think is the 
highest number in South Dakota. I came here to find what some of the needs were of 
the Indian people for their youngsters. I've heard a lot of complaints and griping, but 

I haven't heard a constructive idea. 

Tell us what we can do . Help us . Sit down with us . We don't know all the answers, 
but together we can find them . 

GILPIN: I've been listening to the comments and I'm trying to piece things 
together. There was a question about education of children. This is something I ve 
witnessed. The Head Start Program for these little tots proved to be a valuable asset. 

In Head Start this little guy is taught principles of English, how to get along with his 
little classmates, to play games, to build, and even go on trips to see the city, 
riding on a bu3 or train. 

This has proven to be good training. We found our little kids to be way above non- 
Indian kids. These kids have proven to us that if they are given proper training, they 
can learn. On our reservation they don't know how to speak their own language. They 
all speak English. They use English very fluently and in third or fourth grade some 
of the words they use are amazing. They learn and go on to other grades better 



Fortunately, at Macy, Nebraska we have an all Indian school board. It used to 
be the other way around, but the Association of American Indians gave us a helping 
hand. It was timely. They woke us up from a long sleep. We were letting other 
people run our government. The non-Indians monopolized all the jobs. They had all 
the teaching jobs, bus driver positions, janitorial work, all jobs. The all Indian 
school board has authority to hire and fire all teachers. We have qualified teachers. 

We screened them. Even if we're short of teachers, we won't hire a second rate one. 

The National Teachers Corps has a contract with us . They ve been helping by 
another avenue . Say there are 20 pupils in a room and 15 are grasping what the 
teacher has shown them while five are dropping back. The teacher hasn t time to give 
those five the individual help they need. The National Teachers Corps interns pick up 
the five who are dropping back. They polish them up a little bit with whatever they 
need and bring them up to the level of the rest . 

The Macy school is fortunate in having the National Teacher Corps. They 
established the first library our little community has had. I see kids going into the 
library checking out books . This is something great to them . They take books home 
and you don't see as many kids out playing as you used to do. They've been able to 
check out a book for the first time in their life and go home and read. Well, my boy is 
12 years old. He checked out this book "P-T 109. " I guess we're all familiar with it. 

I think my boy can recap it by memory. This is how he's developing his mind. 

Yes, we have dropouts but we've dealt with them through the family and through 
the tribal council's finance and family counselor. This man has all sorts of ways to 
work with people. He counsels kids in school, helps adults with loans and so forth. 
We're trying to help ourselves by this method and we're fighting our own battles. 

Comments have been made here, implying they want somebody to do. somethingl 
You're better off if you start a l ittle something for yourself instead of waiting for 


something big, because the birthing might not come! If the Department of Labor can 
help bring industry to the reservations so people will live a stable life at home, this 

is what we want. 

X want to be on record that, for the purpose of this meeting, we're almost missing 
the boat because we’re scattered over such a vast area here. We have eight con- 
current panels this afternoon. We have only two members here. I wanted to come in, 
spend a little time and go to another panel. I'll have only a vague memory for a 
report. But I think the Deparartment of Labor had good intentions in bringing us 

together . 

CHAIRMAN: There will be a summary of highlights of each discussion group, so 
you'll be able to pick up the major ideas. 

SNAKI: For industrial development in Oklahoma we have several thousand acres 
in the Anadarko area. We have water, electricity and good highways, but so far, 
we haven't had help from industrial development people. 

MRS. KINLEY: I hope we're not overlooking one factor, the development of 
natural resources on a reservation. I was in hopes that rather than going to the State 
for assistance, the Federal government would help us because Washington is 
prejudiced against the Indians, I believe. They're constantly after our fishing rights 
and our tidelands. We don't want to lose them. This is one of our most important 

natural resources. 

LEWIS: I have one piece of advice to give this lady . You. * ia< * ^ tter 8° t0 ^ iem * 
They're not going to come to you, you know! 

FOOTE: This all boils down to politics. If they're to help the Indian in these 

areas, they must keep politics out. This kindergarten program Is one of the best 
things that ever happened; this Pre-school or Head Start. But, money Is the problem! 


BENEDICT: Gentlemen, in listening to these problems, one thing comes through 
to me. I'd like to submit a tentative remedy. Dr. Wilson talked about a catalog of 
federal programs. It seems we need something almost unique in the Federal service. 
We need a corps of technical "assisters, " interdepartmental people or fieldmen who 
would be familiar with the different funding authorities. 

There are many problems involving relatively small amounts of money. If there 
were some way to devise a corps of field people, not for mounting great, $500, 000 
programs; but a corps of not even 100 field men, who would first be put through a course 
on Federal programs. They'd be able to hear the kind of problems raised in this room 
today and would know what funding authorities to go to. These people might be federal 
related or they might be State related. I can see where discretionary money could be 
used with tremendous impact without building a huge program around small problems. 
Attach these people to the appropriate agencies with the mission of solving such 
problems as the kids who can't play in the band or be on the football team because they 
must ride a school bus . 

This is so applicable, I will read part of it. This is from the Ricon Reservation: 
"The present income of many Rincon residents makes it impossible for the children to 
partake fully of the educational and social opportunities available to them, of some side 
benefits and activities connected with school attendance. Students are continually 
asked for fees for club and band instruments, special clothes and arts and crafts 
supplies." These a^e clearly universal problems. 

"These items may not greatly trouble the parents of children from above average 
and average income homes, but they're very difficult for Rincon families with children 
in school who are not greatly sympathetic in the first place. In all too many cases, we 
find teachers who believe Indian students cannot do well in school and this attitude soon 
produces defeat and lack of interest in the students themselves . " 


My point is, there are funding authorities available. Can we not, somehow, get 
discretionary money to mount a corps of technical "assisters"? If we had 10 in 
California and if we had 4 in Nevada to work with small reservations and the off- 

reservation Indian who doesn't have large, competent, government structures, I think 

we could get solutions. This is a communication problem. 

CHAIRMAN: I think that’s a very excellent suggestion. 

KITTO: I’ve always wondered about Indian schools. Our Indian school was 
abolished in 1932 which was one of the greatest things that ever happened to the 
Winnebagos, Omahas, Tama and Santee Sioux. They must have called it discrimination 
at the time, I guess, because we were separated and the government wanted us to be 
familiar with the white man so they abolished our school and we went to school with 

the non-Indians. 

We have several Indian schools in the United States. Are they segregated? White 
kids should go there too, so our children will know the ways of the white man as they 

grow up. 

As I told Senator Hruska last week, "It makes me mad that you appropriate 
millions for the Indian Bureau over the years and use my name to appropriate the money . 
I said, "Out of $10, the Bureau gets $9.97 and all the Indians get is 3<£. 

If things like the schools could be regulated, it would help our people. Let their 
kids go to school with our children in government schools so we’ll be in the mainstream. 

■■tr.-4 V m » iU'-i'-U • 


Excerpted From: 



Chairman Wellington D. Kohl 

Employment Service Advisor, and 
Chief, Services to Minorities, USDL 
Washington, D. C. 

Recorder Roy Plumlee 

Assistant Chief, Farm Labor Service 
New Mexico State Employment Service 
Albuquerque, New Mexico 

"Affirmative Action and Equal Employment Opportunity" 
Presented by: Gary Larsen, Community Relations Specialist 
of the Department of Defense 

Agency Representatives 
Bradley Reardon 

Charles Clark 

Desmond Sealy 

Robert Bates 

Other Participants 

Benny Atencio 

Victor Charlo 

J. W. Corbett 
Forrest L. Kinley 

Employment Service Advisor 
Bureau of Employment Security, USDL 
Washington, D. C. 

Area Director 

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission 
Kansas City, Missouri 

Special Assistant to the Administrator 
for Equal Opportunity 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 
Washington, D. C. 

Equal Employment Opportunity Advisor 
U. S. Civil Service Commission 
Washington, D. C. 

Tribal Director, OEO 

Santa Domingo Pueblo, New Mexico 

Field Representative 
University of Utah 
Missoula, Montana 

Director, Employment Service 
Des Moines, Iowa 

Lummi Indian Tribe, OEO Director 
Marietta, Washington 




Excerpted From: 

PANEL NO. 5 (Continued) 

Other Participants 

T. A. Lockhart 

Maurice Miera 

William Morigeau 
Jerry Rambler 

Jim St. John 

David A . Sawyer 

Wilfred Shaw 

Walden Silva 

Lawrence Snaki 

David W. Stevens 
Frank White 

Albert Whitebird 


Equal Employment Officer 
Compliance & Security Division 
Federal Aviation Agency 
Kansas City, Missouri 

Minority Group Representative 
BES Regional Office 
Denver, Colorado 

Flathead Tribe 
Poison, Montana 


San Carlos Apache Tribe 
San Carlos, Arizona 

Bureau of Employment Security 

U. S. Employment Service, Regional Office 

Dallas, Texas 

Director of Community Relations 
Office of the Secretary of Defense 
Washington, D. C. 

Chairman, Pyramid Lake Tribal Council 
of Nixon, Nevada 
Wadsworth, Nevada 

Tribal Secretary 

Santa Clara Tribal Council 

Santa Clara Pueblo, New Mexico 


Delaware Tribal Council 
Midwest City, Oklahoma 

Pennsylvania State University 
University Park, Pennsylvania 

Minority Groups Division 
Employment Security Department 
Seattle, Washington 

Representative Tribal Chairman 
Bad River Tribal Council 
Bad River Indian Reservation 
Odanah, Wisconsin 



CHAIRMAN: I'm substituting for Mrs. Lila Doar, who wasn’t able to make this 
session. I’m going to call on Bradley Reardon of the BES for his remarks. 

REARDON: Perhaps the greatest problem we’re dealing with is economic ghettos. 

It appears reservations are economic ghettos separated from the prosperity and economic 
growth of this country. Despite the fact that present discrimination did not arise just 
yesterday, as a white man I’m convinced that discriminatory attitudes against Indians are 
extremely strong and that Indians suffer in obtaining jobs and advancing to higher jobs. 

Indians must make complaints known. They’re dealing with huge units of government. 
Unless the Indian shouts when he suffers injustice, he'll be ignored. There are other 
groups, and 200 million people seeking services from the government. The Indian must 
be right in there fighting for his share of the programs and services. 

Yesterday, we heard sessions on a menu of federal programs. The kit that was 
handed out contains enough federal programs to start a small library. The real problem 
is, how to bring these programs to bear on the Indian, both on reservation and off? State 
Employment Service doesn't handle all these programs, but it's a good contact point. 

Here again, don't wait, demand service. 

It’s necessary to consider the future in making plans. The number of people over 65 
is increasing rapidly. Large programs of Medicare are putting strain on labor supply of 
people who work in hospitals and in other medical facilities. It's an area in which anyone 
trained to almost any degree has a good chance of getting a job. Indians might consider 
how they can fit their needs to the needs of society and get better job opportunities in this 

For a long time, we've had a policy of servicing all people without regard to race, 
creed, or origin. Policy is one thing and practice is another in every agency and in every 

I s ! 


institution. We have some 6000 employees in 2000 offices throughout the country. The 
feelings of individuals on racial and ethnic points are bound to include discriminations. 

This means, at certain times, that services won't be received. In those cases, complaints 
should be raised. 

I should add one other thing. A new policy in the past six months for State Employ- 
ment Service will have rather far-reaching impact especially on an employer who 
systematically discriminates in his employment policy. For instance, if an employer 
near a reservation does not hire Indian workers although Employment Service has referred 
Indian workers to him, Employment Service must not provide any further service after 
certain procedures are followed. Again, militancy and demands by the Indian will ad- 
minister these policies and procedures. They must bring injustices to the attention of 

CLARK: The Equal Opportunity Commission is an Indian Agency of Federal Govern- 


The mission of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is to eliminate dis- 
crimination in employment whether it's based on race, color, sex, religion or national 
origin. I think it's important to note that when we say employment, we must accept the 
Act as written by Congress and recognize that while the principal of equality is as old as 
the Declaration of Independence, equality in opportunity is at least as new as World War II 
and perhaps not that old. 

Congress knew it could not eliminate all employment discrimination simply by regu- 
lating the employer. The Act provides that the law is not to be taken as preventing any 
business or industry on or near a reservation from giving preferential treatment to an 
Indian. In other words, if both the Indian and industry are on or near the reservation, 



Title VII specifically provides than an employer may exercise a preference in favor of the 
Indian. Activities of the Bureau of Indian Affairs in trying to bring industry to the reserva- 
tion are thus not defeated by the Act. No other minority group in this nation is given 
statutory preference. 

SEALY: I'll try to give a brief rundown on the programs of Neighborhood Youth Corps. 

You probably know that Neighborhood Youth Corps is a relatively young agency. We started 
operations in December 1964. Our program is funded by the Office of Economic Oppor- 
tunity, but it's a program delegated to Department of Labor. This produces a certain 
number of difficulties. We have two distinct bosses to whom we're responsible. In some 
cases this is a difficulty and, in others, it proves to be an advantage. The purpose of the 
program is to provide work experience, and note that the word "experience" is distinct 
from training. 

The Neighborhood Youth Corps does not operate the programs. We have sponsors or 
contractors. These are private and public nonprofit agencies or organizations around the 
country who develop a program based on guidelines developed by NYC. This is 100 percent 
funding by the Neighborhood Youth Corps of all costs involved in operating a program by 
a sponsor. 

The requirements for participation in the program are based on OEO and Department 
of Labor standards. One is an income level requirement. Families who participate must 
be below the well known poverty guideline level. In addition, the program is restricted to 
youth between 16 and 22. They must no£ have a high school diploma and must be either a 
dropout, or would become a dropout if this financial assistance were not available. 

The Neighborhood Youth Corps is based on Title VI of the Civil Rights Act and, simply 
stated, says no person shall be denied participation in this program because of race, creed, 



color or national origin. We've set it up to make sure no person, otherwise eligible is 
kept out of the program or does not receive program benefits for any of these reasons. 

We have seven regional offices and, in each, we have an Equal Opportunity Officer. His 
function is to examine proposals before they're approved to see whether they meet standards, 
whether sponsors are aware of their responsibilities, and whether work location and job 
sites selected meet requirements of equal opportunity. When programs become operational, 
the officer conducts routine compliance reviews. He visits a program to look at the opera- 
tion, to talk to those in charge, to talk to enrollees, to get first-hand information on what's 
going on and to make sure there's no discrimination. 

As you well know, this is a nation-wide program and, in such a program, it's impossible 
to know everything that's going on. We do, therefore, get complaints from time to time. 
Another duty of the Equal Opportunity Officer is to investigate these complaints. 

This is a brief summary of 1966 fiscal year funding of programs related to Indians. 

I'll give you the number of jobs involved and Federal costs involved. We have a multi- 
state program involving Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. It provided 3096 job opportunities. 
Federal cost was $1, 975, 516. This, mind you, was 1966 only! The total was 9301 oppor- 
tunities costing $4,925, 419 in 18 states! 

BATES: On behalf of the Civil Service Commission, my remarks will be concerned, 

primarily, with equal employment opportunity throughout Federal government. The Federal 
government is the largest employer in the world with about 22-million employees. 

Under President Kennedy, we had an Executive Order that established the President's 
Committee on Equal Employment Opportunity which had jurisdiction over employment in 
Federal Service. However, under the Johnson administration we have another Executive 
Order. This order transferred functions of the old President's Committee on Equal Oppor- 
tunity to two other agencies, the Office of Federal Contract Compliance in tiic Department 




of Labor and the Civil Service Commission. It required the Commission to adopt regula- 
tions to apply to all agencies. These regulations required every federal agency to promote 
equal opportunity throughout their individual establishments. 

The programs, in the past, have affected, primarily, the American Negro and people 
of Spanish American heritage. Not much special attention was given to Orientals or 

American Indians. However, in the last several months, there's been increased awareness 

of problems of the Indians. 

We have recently set up a new Board of Examiners with centers in every major city 
where people can get complete information on job opportunities in their vicinities. This is 
a facility I urge every person to use to full extent, especially Indians in reservation areas. 

The Commission's program is being expanded constantly. We're always trying to 
develop new ideas. We are especially interested at this time in developing a plan of action 
for the American Indian. We are carrying on discussions with the Bureau of Indian Affairs. 
Our objective is to coordinate Commission recruiting activities to be sure that Indians are 
made aware of job opportunities and have an equal opportunity to compete for jobs in 

Federal Service. 

LARSEN: The primary mission of the Department of Defense is to keep America 

strong, but our effort also contains a moral obligation. The resources, money and man- 
power used in this effort must be expanded in accordance with our principles and traditions. 
This means equal opportunity. Our charter is an executive order which sets forth this ad- 
ministration's commitment to provide meaningful opportunity to the 25 to 30 million 
Americans who have traditionally been left behind for no better reason than the color of 

their skin or the accem of their speech. 

It was realized that culture and geographic problems involved in working with these 
various ethnic groups were different from those involved with Negroes in the ghettos of our 


industrial cities. Because of these differences two special programs were established; 
one on employment opportunity for Spanish speaking people and one for American Indians. 

I was assigned the responsibility of developing and implementing a meaningful em- 
ployment opportunity program for the American Indian. One of my first tasks was to 
educate our own people. We have over 90 field specialists throughout the country. My 
assignment was to provide them with facts and information on how many Indians there are, 
where they're located, their training experience, their industrial experience and their em- 
ployment potential. Armed with this information, a specialist working with an industry, is 
now in position to instruct his company to recruit from the Bureau of Indian Affairs field 

We're concerned not only with plants and facilities in large cities, but with thousands 
of industries located in rural areas close enough to Indian communities that you Would 
expect Indians to be on the payroll. A review of their employment profile would quickly 
show they do not hire Indians. 

Another area of inroads is in construction. Millions of dollars are spent on various 
construction programs on and near reservations. Several months ago, the Corps of Engi- 
neers let a multi- million dollar project to build a dam on the Rio Grande River in New 
Mexico . This dam was to be built right on an Indian reservation ! The contractor began 
construction with an all-Anglo labor force. It was only when the Pueblo Council complained 
to the Secretary of Defense that I was sent to investigate and negotiated this problem. As a 
result of meetings held with the contractor, the Pueblo Council, the labor unions and every- 
one involved, 60 percent of the work force are either Indian or Spanish speaking people from 
the local community. 

In the areas of industrial development, the Department of Defense working in connection 
with the Congress of American Indians, will sponsor a series of industrial conferences. 


My purpose will be to get 200 to 400 industries who possibly are interested in industrial 
development, have them sit down with business committees of various tribes and interchange 
information of available industrial development on reservations. By these conference, we 
hope to create new industries on reservations. 

I have mentioned a few programs we've undertaken. Frankly, we've barely scratched 
the surface. The significant thing is that we have a program aimed specifically at the Indian 
and we've established communications. It is absolutely essential to progress that Indians 
speak out on inequities and injustices. Indians should scream loud and bitterly when industries 
near their own communities don't hire Indian people. They should scream loud and bitterly 
when construction projects on their own reservations do not use Indians. 

President Johnson in his State of the Union address said we must embark on a major 
effort of self-help assistance to the forgotten in our midst, the American Indian and the 
migratory farm worker. 

CHAIRMAN: This conference was called specifically to get participation of the Indian 

delegates, because the matter of educating them on various programs is important. 

WHITEBIRD: I sat here listening to the discussion and it came to my attention that you 
do not understand the Indian problem in Equal Employment Opportunity. I would recommend 
that you have Indians on your commission who understand Indian problems and have Indians 
employed in regional offices who can contact adjacent reservations and refer them to the 

MORGEAU: For several years, we've tried to get the state and county to employ mem- 

bers of the tribe in highway maintenance after construction. We feel Indians should have this 




CLARK: Your remedy would be a Title VI inquiry directed to the Bureau of Public 
Roads within the Department of Commerce. Other than that, our commission would not 
have jurisdiction because they are state employees. 

SHAW: The Neighborhood Youth Corps was set up, I understand, to help fight poverty. 

I've been a supervisor in Youth Corps and you said a kid with a high school diploma can't 
qualify. This has never been brought to my attention. The only thing we used for qualifying 
was parents' income. Why should a diploma disqualify them? 

SEALY: That's a very good point. The fact a youth has a high school diploma does 

not automatically make him rich, but we have the specific aim of reaching the hardest of 
the hard core group. This includes the dropout, in much worse shape than a high school 
graduate, and those students who would become dropouts unless they have this financial 
assistance. In some cases we had to adjust the program, but the guidelines clearly spelled 
out that if a youth has a high school diploma there are other programs for him. We have 
a number of criteria with which to work and a diploma and income are not the only factors. 

KINLEY: I thought that if a youth under 21 was going to college or vocational school, 
he wasn't eligible for any other program. 

SEALY: We have two types of programs. We have the in-school and out-of-school 


KINLEY: I didn't know there was a limit on grade. I didn't see anything about a 12'£h 

grade limitation. As long as they were under 22 and in school, it was O.K. 

SEALY: This isn't a grade limitation, but if he's in school, he's eligible at those ages 
and if he's out of school, he's eligible at those ages. 

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lockhart chatted with me, about a question raised earlier. I wonder 

if you'd pose that question now, Mr. Lockhart? 

LOCKHART: The question was in regard to State highway maintenance. 

Where there’s a question, the responsible agency or Office of Federal Contracts 
Compliance will get a solution. If you’ll get in touch with the agency, they’ll be more 
than glad to get into the act and eliminate any appearance of discrimination. 

CHAIRMAN: If anyone has further questions on Neighborhood Youth Corps, 
would you pose them please? 

ATENCIO: We have NYC programs in New Mexico. We’re allowed only 150 
enrollees at present and you mentioned a reduction. 

I understand there was a funds problem. This excuse is always given us. 

We have many children who do not meet requirements of MDTA or on-the-job 
training. What can we do to qualify them? 

SEALY: That’s a very good question. Guidelines for the Nelson Amendment 
programs are now being developed, so I can’t help you there. I think, at this time 
you might talk to the Regional Director. He may have guidelines ready and be able 

to discuss it. 

CORBETT: We had a meeting two weeks ago, Mr. Sealy, on this problem 
16 to 22 and age 45 up, and we’d like you to give consideration to those between 22 
and 45. I think we put this in writing, but since you mention it, I call it to your 

attention . 

SEALY: That’s a very good point. Obviously, one determining factor will 
be the money we have to spend on programs, whether it reaches all these people or 



MIERA: I have responsibility for minority group representation. I refer to 
Mr. Larsen’s comments about Federal contractors and enforcing employment of 
minority groups. I'd like Mr. Larsen to explain what steps are being taken to have 
Department of Defense observe the Civil Rights Act. 

LARSEN: You bring up a point I don't intend to back away from and am glad 
you brought out. Everybody in this room knows exactly what you're talking about. 

The program I represent was set up under authority of the Executive Order. My 
authority and jurisdiction extend to outside defense contractors, not to inside 
military installations. This points exactly to what I said. Where these problems 
exist, you better let the proper people know about it, so that somebody can take some 
kind of action! 

BATES: Civil Service has a responsibility, to a certain extent, and each 
agency has EEO Service. An employee or anyone who feels there's discrimination 
can file an appeal or complaint with either the Equal Opportunity Officer of U. S. 

Civil Service Commission. If you don't want to file a personal complaint of 
discrimination, you can file a third-party type complaint. There is a procedure by 
which the agency or commission will investigate. 

MIERA: In this particular case, your Commission did make an investigation. 

I think the general tender of the report was to the effect that while the operation 
proclaimed adherence to the Civil Rights Act, they weren't following it at supervisory 
level where discrimination existed . 


BATES: When you have personal knowledge that Commission recommendations 
were not carried out, it would be proper for you to bring this again to the attention of 
agency officials or the Commission. Something should be worked out. 

MIERA: I don’t say the Civil Service Commission didn’t do its job, I just 
think they were bucking a bigger, stronger agency . 

BATES: I’d hate to think anyone could get by with defying the Commission s 
recommendation . 

STEVENS: Each panel member has assured us that we can file grievances . 
People lack knowledge of what’s involved once a grievance is filed. I’d like any panel 
member to give us some idea of what’s involved, because I, personally, am very 
much discouraged with what’s involved for the individual and the time involved in an 

average case. 

CLARK: Let’s suppose one of your people is working for a contractor who 
takes action unfavorable to him . Let’s say it’s a denial of promotion or perhaps a 
disciplinary layoff. If the employee believes it involves discrimination against him 
as an Indian, he has the right to file a charge with our Commission. He should file 

it within 90 days. 

Now, in cases where we must defer to the State, it involves a delay of 60 days 
during which time the State Fair Employment Practices Commission, or whatever it’s 
called, supports, attacks, or resolves the matter. At the end of that 60-day period, 
we’ll ask if he’s satisfied with what the State has done. If the party is not satisfied, 



we’ll review what the State has done. We also have some 60 days in which to do 

I'd like to add just a word here. Congress did not give cease and desist authority to 
the EEO Commission. There are many pressures for making an employer, labor union 
or employment agency do what it should have done in the first place. 

ATENCIO: We have many people apply for government jobs and submit applications. 

Within their range, those employed have been denied promotional opportunities. The Indians, 
I'm sure most people will agree with me, do not know the meaning of discrimination as out- 
lined in Title VI. Now, how do you recognize it and how do you enforce it if we don't know 
we're being discriminated against in that sense? Another question is what educational process 
is being carried on to educate those who employ Indians? 

CLARK: This conference is an example of the type of educational program we're pre- 

pared to conduct. If, when you go back to your own tribes, you feel a need for more educa- 
tion, ask us to send someone to talk with you in your own council chambers and tell you just 
exactly what your rights are under the law. We will send people. 

On the question of discrimination, if a man honestly feels he cannot understand why he 
wasn't promoted, if he knows he can do the work and has been doing it as part of his every- 
day job and he can’t satisfy himself in his own mind that there was legitimate reason the 
employer turned down his request to be upgraded, I think he s entitled to conclude that it 
must be discrimination. 

ATENCIO: I don't know if you're aware of the situation in New Mexico, but we must 

commute maybe 50 to 60 miles to find employment. 

SILVA: Our contacts with Indians have been scarce. However, we welcome Indian 

groups because we’d appreciate speaking to your council. Our offices cover the state. 

We know there are problems, but we’re not hearing from Indians. 



SEALY: Training depends upon each agency's own circumstances, their budget, their 

training facilities and so forth. It may be that a particular establishment won't have 
facilities or the money for a training program of any great extent. 

In a situation where you do have training facilities and opportunities for training and 
where only one group of people is given opportunity, then you have legitimate reason for 
filing a complaint of discrimination. If you can show that only Caucasians, for instance, 
are permitted to take training while Indians or other minorities are not permitted training 
even though they're just as qualified, then you should file a complaint. There are many 
factors involved in discrimination. 

CHAIRMAN: The burden of proof is not necessarily on the person who feels discrimi- 

nated against. Any person who has reason to believe he's being denied opportunity for 
advancement or employment should record the information to the best of his ability on 
which he'd base this complaint and submit it to the appropriate agency. 

CLARK: There's one additional point: The EEO Commission has power to initiate 

a complaint where there's no aggrieved individual ! 

If your tribe as an organization feels there is discrimination against members, you can- 
not file a complaint as an organization, but you can file an ordinary letter. If what you state 
in that letter persuades one appointee that it has merit, it will be investigated. 

RAMBLER: On our reservation we receive hardly any consideration when opportunities 

for government employment come up. The reason they give is that the Civil Service Com- 
mission handles it and that’s about the end of it. These people should get jobs when jobs 
become available, but we can't do it because Civil Service has our hands tied. 

We know there's a lack of jobs on the reservation and you're doing as much as you can 
to provide jobs, but it's not enough, because there are still 75 percent who need work! 

We must have industries. 


There are two adverse conditions. A major one is the old folks, the traditionalists 
who are against industry, because they think it opens up the reservation. On the other 
hand, to provide work we must create industries on the reservation. When we make laws, 
we should include that a majority of the labor must be Indians. This is why we come to 
you. We don't know how to get industries, we don't know how to talk to them, we don't 
know how to induce what kind of industries, and so forth. This is where we need help and 
what we came here to find out. 

CHAIRMAN: As leaders of American Indians, would you kindly ask us to bring re- 

sources to jou? There are instances where we won't know how to do it. In many cases, 
we'll probably fail. Without your saying we want help, and without your asking the right 
people, there won't be very much accomplished. 

We hope this isn't the last time tribal leaders say what's on their minds and that, if 
given information about how you might resolve some problems, you'll take whatever action 
is necessary. We will have lost the entire purpose of this conference if you go back to the 
reservations or the communities where your people live, and we don't hear from you any- 

ST. JOHN: I don't believe this gentleman's question was understood or answered. I 

think it was how do Indian leaders train Indian people to recognize discrimination, so they 
can bring it to somebody's attention. Not many of these people understand what's meant by 

CHAIRMAN: I've used this expression before, and I'll use it now and let it go on the 

record. In certain communities, there is what's called "nigger work." This is the menial 
labor meted out to Negro applicants. Discrimination is any pattern of employment where 
people are not permitted to break down barriers and to move into nontraditional employment. 


If there is such a thing as "Indian work, " and that's the only kind of work Indians are 
permitted to do, that's discrimination! 

I don't know if that clarifies it, but I'd suspect there's what's called "Indian work 
around, and that most Indians are accepting it as their realm of employment. 

CHARLO: Our problem isn't so much "Indian work. " I suppose it exists, but I think 

it’s a little more subtle than that. When we have contracts with different organizations they 
say they'll ure 80 percent Indian labor but they add the eaten phrase, If they are qualifie d. 

Now, what does qualified mean? How qualified must you be if you're on the green chain 
in a lumber mill? Not very, but it seems non-Indians are a bit more qualified than Indians! 

CHAIRMAN: Can I make this suggestion? I'm pretty certain you'll find in a great many 

situations you need some kind of confrontation with whoever does the hiring. If you don’t 
bring it to the attention of the firm, and if you con't confront them with the situation, you 
don't have a leg to stand on. Perhaps it's for appearance only, but without the confronta- 
tion, nothing is ever done. He'll assume you're accepting his hiring practices. There s 
a need for an Indian voice on or off- the reservation. It must be clearly understood as a 

voice of unrest on the matter of unemployment among Indians. 

ATENCIO: But how do employees go about filing claims when they don t really recognize 

whether they're discriminated against because of race, color or creed? We know of 
instances where opportunities came up specifically with Public Health and the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs. We have many Indians who've been employed for a long time and should 
be elevated. Do we have the right as tribal officials to go in there and file claims for em- 
ployees who are afraid to do it on their own? 

CHAIRMAN: You can encourage them to do it. 

ATENCIO: We have been encouraging them I 



SNAKI: I understood you to say that if the individual wanted to file a complaint but 
not give his name, he could file it with his tribal chairman who would take it from there. 

Is that right? 

CLARK: Right. When you return to your communities and pass on the message we've 

tried to pass to you and the members of your tribes tell you about their experiences, we 
ask that you put down those experiences in a letter to the Equal Opportunity Employment 
Commission, and let us see what we can do for you. 

Let us know what the specific problems are and we'll serve you by seeing that your 
communications are directed to the agency with authority and power to do something. 

WHITEBIRD: When you file discrimination charges, you start a court action. You 

might as well not file if the defense is going to beat you. I call it "shady" discrimination 
in which the defendant has a loophole. 

CHAIRMAN: This is the point I was trying to make earlier. I wish you wouldn't be 

concerned about whether or not you can prove it. Digging up the facts to determine whether 
or not you have a case is the responsibility of the agency looking into the matter. The point 
is, please file the complaint l 

WHITE: Many times our people must prove themselves to be superior in a specific 

field to be considered eligible for a position. This has been found a number of times. I've 
been employed in the common labor market for 16 years. I've come up against this and had 
to out-produce and overproduce the man next to me to be considered equal in the position. 

CHAIRMAN: Have you complained about this? 

WHITE: Yes, I have. I work for Mr. Jackson here from the State Labor Board. We're 

working together on this, but we don't know how it will go. I can see why many people are 
questioning it at this time. 


CHAIRMAN: You must deliberately, without wavering, case after case, present such 

matters . 

In this way, you build a voice. 

Excerpted From: 




Oscar Gjernes 

Acting Chief, Division of Manpower Services 
U. S. Department of Labor 
U. S. Employment Service 
Washington, D. C. 

Earle Costello 

Community Employment Development Coordinator 
Alaska State Employment Service 
Juneau, Alaska 

Speaker: Bert Anderson 

Architect, Department of Housing and Urban Development 
Housing Assistance Administration 



Agency Representatives 
Lindsey Campbell 

William R. Carmack 

Harold Mahan 
Dr. James Wilson 

Office of Farm Labor Service 
Washington, D. C. 

Assistant Commissioner 
Community Services 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Washington, D. C. 

Regional Director 

Office of Farm Labor Service 

Kansas City, Missouri 

Chief, Indian Division 
Office of Economic Opportunity 
Washington, D. C. 

Other Participants 

Percy Archambeau 

Herman E . Cameron 

Robert Carlow 

Tribal Chairman 

Yankton Sioux Tribal Council 

Wagner, South Dakota 

Chairman, Bay Mills Indian Community 
State Commission on Indian Affairs 
Brimley, Michigan 

Housing Authority 
Ogallala Sioux Tribe 
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 


Excerpted From 
PANEL NO. 6 (Continued) 

Other Participants 

William R. Carmack 

Frank Ducheneaux 

(A Mr. Hall) 
Vernon Jackson 

Assistant Commissioner 
Community Services 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Washington, D. C. 

Chairman, Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe 
Eagle Butte, South Dakota 

(No other identification available.) 

Representative of Confederated Tribes 
Warm Springs, Oregon 

Overton James 

Fitz Lewis 

Chickasaw Nation 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

Chickasaw Tribe 
Madill, Oklahoma 

W. E. McIntosh 

Principal Chief 
Creek Nation 
Tul sa, Oklahoma 

Edwin Martin 

Domingo Montoya 

Mrs . Vynola Newkumet 

William Omen 

Earl Boyd Pierce 
Benedict Quigno 

Guy Quoetone 


Stockbridge Munsee 
Bowler, Wisconsin 


All Indian Public Council 
Bernalillo, New Mexico 

Caddo Tribe 
Norman, Oklahoma 

Council Representative 
Red Lake Band, Tribal Council 
Red Lake, Minnesota 

Cherokee Nation 
Muskogee, Oklahoma 


Saginaw Chippewa Tribe of Michigan, and 

Michigan State Com mission on Indian Affairs 
Mt. Pleasant, Michigan 

Kiowa Indian Tribe 
Carnegie, Oklahoma 


Excerpted From 
PANEL NO. 6 (Continued) 

Other Participants (Continued) 

Edison Real Bird 


Crow Tribal Council 
Crow Agency, Montana 

Arthur C . Rolette 


Absentee Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma 
Shawnee, Oklahoma 

Martin Sampson 

Representative for Secretary -Treasurer 
Snoqualmie Tribe 
Tacoma, Washington 

Henry W. Scott 

Vice Chairman 

Sac & Fox Tribe of Oklahoma 

Cushing, Oklahoma 

Wilfred Shaw 


Pyramid Lake Tribal Council of Nixon, Nevada 
Wadsworth, Nevada 

Artley Skenandore 

Legislative Representative 

Great Lake (Wise.) Inter Tribal Council 

West De Pere, Wisconsin 

(A Mr. Smith) 

(No other identification available.) 

Dr. W. A. Soboleff 

Alaskan Native Brotherhood 
Juneau, Alaska 

Sam Yankee 


Mille Lacs Reservation 
McGregor, Minnesota 

CHAIRMAN: I think we'll first call on Mr. Anderson. 

ANDERSON: The Housing Assistance Administration, formerly known as Public 
Housing Administration, provides Indian housing of two main types: conventional Low- 
rent and Mutual Help . 

Low-rent is similar to that in non-Indian areas constructed by building contractors 
and operated as rental housing by local housing authorities . These houses are rented to 

families of low income at rents based on their incomes . 

The Mutual Help program was devised to meet needs of families who could not 
even afford low-rent housing. The ownership provided in Mutual Help housing is a 
strong incentive for self-help in building and maintaining these homes . Under this plan, 
a group of participating Indians contribute their labor in the construction of the homes 
and earn what is known as "sweat equity. " In addition, the tribe participants contribute 
the building sites and, when feasible, Indians provide building materials. The greater 
a contribution the sooner a house is owned by a participant. The equity amounts to 20 
percent and the home is owned in about 17 years . Excluding fuel and electricity, monthly 

payments are about $7 to $10. 

Mutual Help housing relies heavily on assistance from Bureau of Indian Affairs 
and Public Health Service . Our first effort to provide Mutual Help housing as well as 
employment was at Pine Ridge, South Dakota. Since that time, we've found new and very 
promising techniques and methods of providing housing and training at minimal costs in 

a very short time . 

One rapid technique is known as the ready -cut house. There are several more 
and we've successfully incorporated these rapidly built houses into the Mutual Help 
program. The time required to build Mutual Help projects was a real problem, but we 

think we have the answer . 

At Red Lake, Leech Lake and White Earth, OEO, MDTA, BIA, Public Health and 
HAA are completing 55 houses of highest quality and are training construction workers 
in the bargain. This program is expected to be duplicated elsewhere in the future. 

This project is being accomplished under the Nelson amendment. The vast red tape 
associated with government agencies is eliminated in this method. 

Turn Key involves government purchase of a finished house from a developer 
for a predetermined price. Business committees often act as developers and local 
housing authorities purchase the house when completed. 

We're presently entertaining the possibility of combining Mutual Help, Turn Key 
and training programs in various locations. By use of these methods and techniques, 
we're making inroads on the chief previous problem of high costs. 

We want to provide housing in communities with futures and we're very aware of 
all we haven't reached. We’re planning to reach them . The Department of Housing and 
Urban Development is involved in building for people a nd has abandoned the limited 
"bricks and mortar" approach. Plans for Indian reservations, long overdue, are on the 
way. This ties in with transportation and communication. We know the long distances, 
diff6rcnccs of language and how they affect communications. We also know about, red 

tape which makes our job more difficult. 

These comprehensive planning efforts will tie together the bits and pieces of 
redevelopment on a reservation into a meaningful whole . 

I'd like to conclude by briefly recounting one particular, historical account of 
Indian manpower: a history that will inspire the young with an example of adaptability, 
survival, culture and singular Indian talent; the story of the Mohawks on high steel. 

The Mohawks moved to the St. Lawrence River in 1700. They had difficulty 
making a living and, for a century and a half, entered the French fur trade as canoemen. 
When that trade disappeared, they went into timber work. 

In 1886, the Dominion Bridge Company came to the reservation to build a bridge 
and, since Indian land was involved, they had to employ Indian labor. In doing so, they 
found Indians had a peculiar talent . They could walk on high steel without fear . 

So, gradually, the Caughnawagas trained younger Indians. They worked on the 
Sioux Bridge in Michigan and used it as a training school. From the Sioux Bridge they 
went to New York in 1915 and worked on the Hell Gate Bridge. In 1926, they worked on 
several large buildings in New York. Now, they're skilled and accomplished construc- 
tion workers . 

CAMPBELL: Farm Labor Service, which I represent, has long been concerned 
with increasing employment for the Indian. We'd like to think we've always been res- 
ponsive to employment problems of the Indian, but, like other Federal agencies, we 
realize there's still much to be done before we can rest. 

Obviously, the problems of housing, transportation and communication are primary 
to discussion of Indian poverty and unemployment. Yet, they are precisely the same 
problems shared by nearly 3 million rural American families today . 

We talk about the teeming ghettos of our metropolitan areas where families are 
crowded into substandard tenements, living in filth and squalor. Yet, in the last census, 
four out of five urban homes are in sound condition and with complete plumbing, but only 
slightly more than one of two rural dwellings meet this criteria. 

Forty -four percent of the bad housing in the United States was in rural areas, but 
rural housing was only 30 percent of the total housing supply. In 1960, about one and one- 
half million rural families were living in houses in such dilapidated condition that the 
health, safety and well-being of the occupants were endangered. Another three and a half 
million rural families occupied dwellings deteriorating and in need of major repairs. 
Nearly half of all rural, white families live in bad housing. But, startlingly significant, 
eight out of nine Negroes and Indians live in rural squalor. At the bottom of the heap, 
probably the worst housing is occupied by 400,000 migrant farm workers. 

."— lu„i 1 n^ci iruuu' 

-’-rv ..yirwuwuis u^y ."w-'-' 1 


The Office of Farm Labor Service is not in the housing business, but we're aware 
that good housing attracts good workers. Lack of financing is a major obstacle to the 
improvement of rural houses and construction of new rural dwellings. Since 1960, the 
Farmers Home Administration has handled loans for approximately 70, 000 rural 
dwellings. During the same period, the Federal Housing Administration, primarily 
suburban oriented, insured loans for over one million dwelling units! Bad housing and 
poverty are closely associated and families tend to find better housing as their incomes 


OFLS is not financing housing, but we can't totally ignore the effect substandard 
housing has on attracting and retaining productive agricultural labor. We certainly 
aren't proud of the estimated 400, 000 migrant workers who are forced to live in such 

conditions . 

Last year, Farm Labor Service published, for the use of State agencies, a 
housing handbook designed as a guide to improved farm worker housing. We sincerely 
hope this handbook will provide a meaningful guide to the construction of more and 
adequate housing for rural workers. 

Communication is also of special concern to FLS. I can think of no greater 
barrier to successful employment experiences than inability to understand. Many, if not 
most, of our abortive experiences in the area of farm labor involving Indian workers can 
be attributed to lack of communication. We've attempted to deal with this problem in 

two basic ways: 

1. We educate the farm employer in good management relations. 

2. We encourage development of local leadership among Indian workers. 

In recent meetings, employers expressed genuine interest in developing and 

rewarding leadership potential among Indian workers. The increasing complexity and 
cost of food production, coupled with a decreasing supply of agricultural labor, has 


caused growers and food producers to reassess old attitudes towards workers. I hope 
you'll come up with pertinent, pointed questions we can carry back and translate into 
action; that we find solutions, not just go home and say, "It was a nice conference; we 
really enjoyed ourselves." 

MAHAN: I'll raise a couple of questions concerning communications which we've 
found to be extremely poor on reservations. We've found two things. One is a poor 
telephone system on reservations in our region. Secondly, since all of you have gone 
to white man's school, you can't even read your own smoke signals any more. We can t 
get out the word except by a long, involved process of hiring many people with cars to 
run up and down the road and knock on doors. This takes a long time. 

The question I’d like to raise is, how can we improve communication systems 
on reservations? We talked about communication between employers and workers. If 
you can't get to the workers in the first place because you don't have communications, 
your problem is solved because, then, you won't need communication? We even lack the 
old, primitive party line strung on the fence posts on some reservations. 

The concept of this conference, I thought, wasn't that a lot of people would tell 
us what they could do or were doing. Somewhere along the line, we need to find out 
from you people what you need, what the problems are and what you think should be done. 

I know very little about housing. I have little to contribute. A friend here said 
he didn’t need a house. He had a teepee. I thought maybe someone would offer to build 
a better teepee for him . 

DR. WILSON: I don’t have a solution. I’m going to refer to some Indians. What 
did you do about it, Frank? Didn't you buy the telephone company? 

DUCHENEAUX: We have a franchise in two counties and an exchange in three . 
The way to solve that proBTSfff is to get industry in, so they have money to buy a system. 




DR. WILSON: That's one way. Another way, of course, is to put a stopper in 
the hole that allows a brain drain from reservations. We're hoping that Community 
Action will provide opportunities to return trained people to the reservation, so we have 
people available who are understanding and knowledgeable of the local situation. I want 
to highlight something that came to my attention recently. 

OEO is not primarily concerned with housing, but we've gotten into it while 
watching many Federal programs flap around in the water wondering "Which way's the 
beach?", and seeing tribes in the same fix. We hear of local housing authorities having 
difficulty in not knowing who to turn to, then turning to everyone and getting different 
advice. The result is mass confusion and no housing. 

I did some research during the Christmas holidays and found some interesting 
things. I was able to put them together in a graphic illustration that more clearly high- 
lights the relationship between housing, income, education, transportation and 
communication than anything I've ever seen. 

There are two columns here (indicating). You'll notice several cross lines. 
Imagine that half-way up the columns is a guide or bench mark showing the median. Half 
of 75,000 Indian families have an income above this line and half have an income below 
it. Then quarter these columns. The lower quarter represents an average income for 
those people who are welfare recipients. In the top quarter are those people who surpass 
the poverty index of $3,000 per year income for a family of four. 

In this column, the homes below the bench mark are those that need replacement 
because they're beyond repair. The bottom quarter are considered beyond repair, 
unsafe and should not be lived in. The next 25 percent are those that need replacement 
but the residents can get by, by stuffing pillows in windows, or nailing up cardboard or 
something. Above that half-way mark up to the 75 percent line, you find 25 percent of the 
homes that are repairable. Above the 75 percent line is adequate housing. That top 25 
percent relates almost exactly within one percent of the level of income! 


If you use the same lines on this third column, you find the same thing about 
levels of education. It is related to income. Income, we know, is related to housing 
and housing, income and education are all related to transportation. 

Let me run through some very limited statistics you may find interesting. The 
national average of education is 11.9 years of school. For Indians, it s approximately 
8.3 years. In terms of median income it’s $1,900 per family. When you consider the 
size of an average Indian family at 5.4 persons, you can see it is very, very low on a 
per capita basis. The median income for Indians is approximately half that of other 
rural families. 

The point is that we must recognize "where we are. " I've been to many 
conferences. Matter of fact, I'm becoming known as a "Conference Indian. " I've picked 
up so much information from speakers I don't have to go home and study . This does_no 

good, unless I get back where the work is done . 

I hope we recognize this when we attempt to solve the problem rather than just 

discuss it for another two or three years. 

DR. CARMACK: I'd like to say a word about communication and try to relate 
it to the housing problem. I have figures the Bureau of Indian Affairs has been using to 
describe the situation on Indian housing. I doubt anyone has figures they 11 fight and die 
for, because they're all estimates. When you discuss housing, you re talking about 
standards. Such phrases as adequate or suitable for repair, fit to live in or unfit to live 
in, are very difficult definitions . Between one agency and another, there are differences 
as to what is suitable for repair and totally unfit for human habitation. The figures I 
have are rough, but show 57,000 Indians inadequately housed. As to how many are 
suitable for repair, the answer we got was that only 25 percent can be repaired . 

Strange as it seems, the housing problem in Indian country is a communication 
problem rather than a money problem . I know of no need, except possibly jobs, that is 



greater on reservations and in Indian communities than housing. Yet, we seem to have 
enormous difficulty making inroads. The Federal government invests large sums of 
money in housing, but we don't receive a proportionate share for Indian housing. The 
problem is not that there isn't money, but that communication lines are so hopelessly 
clogged we can't seem to expedite programs we already have authority for. 

I want to cite a bit of communication theory. A man who lived 4, 000 years ago 
in Egypt said a petitioner would rather have his petition fully heard and denied than 
simply accepted. He was saying that we don't really listen. We just sit quietly waiting 
to say something. Aristotle said the character a listener believes a speaker has 
determines whether he listens. 

The basis for effective communication is not in the area of techniques at all, but 
in mutual respect. If we don't have mutual respect and confidence, we won't have 
communication. Consider, for example, our efforts to negotiate an acceptable truce 
in Vietnam and our efforts to understand and be understood by the Communist Block. It 
isn't that we don't have people who speak Vietnamese or Russian, but that we don t 
have mutual confidence . 

I think this relates very directly to Indian housing problems and relationship with 
Federal government. Everyone, because of his values, circumstances, culture and 
background, has a different kind of approach. 

The Housing Planning Program is intended to provide technical assistance through 
housing officers in the formation of housing authorities, paperwork, presentation of 
p roposals and so on. The construction superintendent, in this same division, is supposed 
to provide tribal groups with technical know-how and supervision in the construction phase 
of these houses. 

If you spend one million dollars a year on new housing for the indigent, you can 
build perhaps 100 houses. I calculated that if this program was used as the basic solution 



for the Indian housing program and if we could build a perfect house that never needed 
repair and spent all our money on the program, we could solve the Indian housing 
problem in only 600 years! 

There's a study indicating that 25 percent of the meaning of a message is lost 
at every level of transmission. If that's true, it's a wonder we all got here this 
morning. We need to worry less about who gets credit and more about how many houses 
get built. But by the time an agreement is made and then amended in the various offices 
concerned, we sort of "half" understand what's to be done by whom . 

I know of no greater need among Indians than housing. It's the key to better 
health, to better use of education and has an enormous place to play in a child's 
attitude toward school and study. I know it's the key to industrial development. There 
are 80 housing authorities in Indian country and they wouldn't be organized if they 
didn't want housing. There is a need, a market and programs. There should be a way 
to marry these interests. 

CHAIRMAN: Yesterday, a group talked of 700 jobs now open on the Navajo 
Reservation, but no place for people to live. This brings us to the problem we're 

PIERCE: Bill has just told the truth. Practically all our trouble has resulted 
from a communications breakdown. Before the outbreak of the Civil War, you remember, 
a few bushwhackers from Missouri drifted into our Indian territory in Oklahoma. The 
Cherokee Nation had about two -fifths of its people devoted to the Southern cause, and 
three-fifths in the Union Army. The Cherokee Nation fought its own Civil War. The 
bushwhackers , though, brought it home to us. The Cherokees feel that the Indians of 
Oklahoma have been bushwhacked . 

We've never been able to understand why Federally recognized Indian groups in 
Oklahoma were not permitted in the beginning of the poverty program to sponsor 



communication programs. Someone bushwhacked the Oklahoma tribes. They did it 
without consultation with our tribes. We woke up one morning and the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs, our guardian and protector, had chains around its hands. 

Over 10, 000 Cherokees are practically destitute and homeless. It is not a thing 
of their own making. It is a statehood, Dr. Wilson. Before, we didn t have a single 
impoverished person. We didn’t have a single illiterate over 6 years of age. Now, 60 
years of policies by government have resulted in our needing help from the American 
people . We need the help of the Bureau of Indian Affairs . We want the responsible 
leaders of our tribes to be allowed to come up with programs in the communication 

field and bring assistance directly to our people. 

Improve the economic outlook. Put some bread and butter on the Indians table. 
Improve the housing situation- -it is intolerable in the hills of eastern Oklahoma. We 
want the image changed in those hills and we think Congress intended it to be changed. 

DR. WILSON: In 1964, when legislation was being considered for the Economic 
Opportunity Act, a number of task forces were established. One was to survey poverty 
conditions of the Indians. I don't know how many members were on it. Like other task 
forces--and Mr. Pierce referred directly to the recommendations of such a group in 
his last comment - -they traveled around the country and, after visiting a number of 
reservations, met in Washington for four days and drafted their recommendations. 

They said that within the Office of Economic Opportunity there should be 
established an Indian Desk but there was no indication of how many people they were 
talking about. I don't know whether they intended it to be manned by a single person, 
by an army, or by how many . 

They went further and said restrictions should limit activities of the Indian Desk 
to Federal Indian Reservations. As I understand it, there are no Federal Indian 
Reservations in Oklahoma. This is one of the problems. However, the Act said aU_ 
American citizens may participate if their condition can be described as one of poverty. 




For the past one and one -half years, we've attempted to negotiate Congressional 
extension of the same privileges available to Federal Reservations. I remind you we've 
attempted to do what we can. We recognized, and it's been pointed out to us many times, 
that these people feel bushwhacked and, I think, rightly so! Once we recognize the 
problem, it's our business to do something to solve it. 

McINTOSH: Nineteen months ago, the Creek tribe, with approval of the Creek 
Indian Council of 52 members, met at the capitol of the Creek Nation and endorsed the 
necessary resolution for the Creek tribe to participate in a housing program. We 
filled out the voluminous paper work. We fired it into Fort Worth. Fort Worth came 
to the Creek Nation. We went to Fort Worth. Fort Worth came back to the Creek 
Nation. Fort Worth said, "Washington is holding up the Creek housing." Washington 
said, "Get Fort Worth on the ball . " Nineteen months ago! There hasn't been a nail 
driven! There hasn't been a board cut! What is the matter? (Applause.) 

SKENANDORE: Our conference is certainly bringing out the entire history of 
the Oklahoma Indian. 

I'm Project Director for two housing programs in Wisconsin. We're in construc- 
tion on one and the other is in initial occupancy. I've been doing the paper work involved 
since 1963, so this is a long process. Isn't there a way to simplify or reduce the 
criteria involved in processing an approval to final accomplishment of housing? As we 
said many times, if we'd built the houses with paper, we'd have had a lot more houses. 

I think this is nearly universal in all governmental programs. Each bureau in government 
has a particular process of its own. 

I don't think coordination should be left to the reservation. It should be done at 
the Washington level, to reduce it to one agency, so we can accomplish something without 
dealing with all these "alphabet" agencies. I feel I've gained a great deal of satisfaction 
and knowledge in wading through it and in now having housing in progress. 


I know that some tribal people aren't salaried. 1 worked for charity for three 
years in setting up the process. I can sympathize with a lot of tribes, particularly in 
my own State of Wisconsin, when they have no funding, no area resource people to work 

with and no educational leadership. We should simplify. 

CAMERON: I've been Chairman of Bay Port community, a reservation in Michigan. 
On November 29, 1967, five years will have passed since we started action to get housing 

for our people . We haven't yet driven a nail! 

However, we've endeavored to exercise patience, knowing there are certain 
technicalities to be overcome and various and sundry items to be considered for the 
project. The patience of Indians who do not have such understanding is not endless. 

Why cannot these things be reconciled at a high level? We seem to have recognized 
the problem ! I can't see why we're hindered in trying to improve the well-being of our 
people! We can be justifiably critical of BIA, but are we to continue to take this, so to 
speak, or are we to speak up? 

We're on a first -name basis with our BIA people. They come in, extend the glad 
hand and we, of course, accordingly respond. But those kind of gestures are not getting 
us anywhere. "Hello, Joe; how are you?" doesn't improve our houses one bit. 

As I listened here, I thought, "If they do those things, we have nothing to worry 
about. We can go home this afternoon." You recognize the problems, so let's solve, 
some of them! (Applause.) 

DR. WILSON: Sometime ago, a super-secret task force on Indian affairs met in 
Washington. I made a recommendation to them that I'd like this group to consider. 

Mr. Skenandore made this point clear, in talking about "alphabet" agencies. There are 
s° many now, you must almost carry a directory to know who represents what. 

But while we're making "alphabet" agencies these days, why not a new one called 
"Office of Indian Programs Coordination, " where everything concerning Indian affairs 


could be coordinated? An agency, primarily staffed by Indians with knowledge of the 
reservation way of life. You would make direct contact with them and, hopefully, get 
something done. 

An example is the Red Lake project in Minnesota! On that housing project, we re 
working with BIA, U.S. Public Health Service, HAA, MDTA, the State Employment 
Service and trade unions . If you don’t think it’s a monumental task trying to keep track 

of what’s going on, then ask someone from Minnesota. 

I would suggest again that the group consider making a very strong recommendation 

for an Office of Program Coordination. (Applause.) 

PIERCE: Let me thank you and Mrs. McGuire, because I understand our housing 
program has been on her desk. We want to thank the Labor Department and the head of 
Neighborhood Youth Corps which brought $1, 025, 000 to the Cherokee tribe. Ninety -five 
percent of that money is in the hands of high schoolers. There are some success stories, 

gentlemen! We’re happy, but we’re not contented! 

SKENANDORE: Are we to assume that we can report to our respective communi- 
ties that Mutual Help housing is in full progress and various obstacles are being removed? 
ANDERSON: Yes, you can say that. It would be accurate. 

SKENANDORE: I feel we've gone the full route in waiting for action and I can now 
go home and say this is going to be expedited? I can say that? 

ANDERSON: You can say that. 

LEWIS: In my Nation, consisting of 11 counties of the Old Chickasaw Nation, there 
are about 5,000 Chickasaws who look to their housing authority, constituted about 18 
months ago, but which hasn’t stuck a spade in the £ wd or nailed a board. In the very 
near future, I want to report why we haven't been able to move. 

CARLOW: I'm a member of our housing authority . Due to a few poor selections 
at Pine Ridge, we’ve all been penalized and criticized by the Housing Administration in 


Chicago. We're denied more housing and won't get any unless we pick up back rent 
from all delinquents. It's impossible for us to collect rent three years old. 

Something must be done so we can go home and tell the people we're to get more 
housing. The Self-Help program is out, too. The architect cost $39, 000 and it was not 
refunded to us for another program . They should have cut him off, instead of us . 

Mr. Anderson, must we collect all that back rent, some of it three years old? 

It's impossible. We've collected $14, 000 in back rent since July and it's impossible to 
collect more . 

ANDERSON: If we build rental housing, we must collect rents. It's not that we 
don't want to go on with the program. We know there's a need and we want to do some- 
thing about it, but our hands are tied. Perhaps something can be worked out. I don't 
think you should suffer for the rest of eternity because a mistake was made. It's not 
going to be easy and it will take cooperation on your part and help from us . 

CARLOW: We have over 200 applications for housing. We have a new factory 
that will employ 100 people and another that will employ more than 100, but the workers 
would have no place to live! They’d have to drive to and from the country and it's 
impossible when the weather's bad. Still, they want people who don't miss work. 

ANDERSON: In many respects, Mutual Help housing is far better for reservations 
than rental housing simply because it involves home ownership. 

I'm one person in Housing Assistance Administration and the only person working 
on the Indian program. I do what I can and, if you contact me in Washington, I'll find 
out what's possible. 

REAL BIRD: We have a problem, but no ideas about how to overcome it. Indian 
tribes across the country, on numerous occasions, lack adequate or matching funds 
required by housing authorities like a credit requirement. Our people are unable to 
meet these requirements. 


All these different agencies cooperate in providing housing for Indians, each 
contributing their specialty, but we don’t care who gets the credit. We want to overcome 
this situation and today is an ideal time to make recommendations. 

There are Housing Authority area offices, but the specialists never come to the 
respective reservations to witness these problems or disclose information. 

QUOETONE: How do Oklahoma Indians have a problem in housing? 

In Public Law 89136, regarding eligibility under Section 401, these additional 
Indian -owned lands, tribal trust property, used to be our reservation, but it's open now 
and we have an allotment. We want housing repairs. They said it can t be done. Some 
Indians want their children or grandchildren housed on their allotment . That's a problem . 

ANDERSON: It says, "those additional Federal or State Indian reservations or 
trusts, are restricted, owned land areas." This sounds like legal jargon to me. I don t 
think I'm able to answer. Public Law 89136, "those additional Indian -owned lands or 
trust property reservations, No. 413, " cannot take advantage of laws written. It needs 
formal interpretation by the Secretary of Commerce on how Oklahoma can take advantage 
of it. If it's not possible, the law must be changed. 


MARTIN: I'd like Dr. Wilson's suggestion on coordinating some of these offices 
in Washington. When we have a training -housing program with four different agencies 
to work with, we must put up money for the material ourselves. We must hire construc- 
tion workers at a very high salary, which is taken out of our material money. Why do 
they set such high standards that we must hire architects? It means high cost for our 
housing. We've had a housing authority for three years, and we're still* working on 
housing, but we're not getting anywhere; just papers and papers. I’ll have to move out 
of my house if I get any more papers! 

SMITH: We're losing their respect simply because we start a package program, 
and inform the Indians we're going to do certain things in the way of assistance. Then a 

bottleneck, somewhere, makes the Indian wait for assistance. I m wondering if con- 
sideration should be given to preplanning before presenting it to a field officer so he 
won't be in conflict with his own people. 

SCOTT: Indians ask many, many things. We can't hardly answer them, but still 
we must assist them . These programs should be brought to the community and have 
Indians work directly with Indians . 

ARCHAMBEAU: How will the adequate Housing project be available to all our 


ANDERSON: I don't know that it will. Adequate housing uniis are like a very 
small house built as a demonstration, to get people into some kind of shelter, and are 
very minimal . 

JAMES: I move this entire group go on record, favoring Dr. Wilson s and 
Mr. Real Bird's program, that an agency be formed to coordinate all Federal programs, 
so we can expedite housing for all Indian tribes of the United States. 

VOICE: Second the motion . 

CHAIRMAN: Any discussion? Ready for the question . Those in favor say, AYE 
(Aye. Unanimous) 

This group is on record, supporting recommendations in the proceedings of this 

QUIGNO: The purpose of this conference is to bring together Indians and 
representatives of various agencies, concerned with problems and needs of the American 

Indian for a critical discussiqn of programs. 

It is hoped the discussion will serve as a basis for participating agencies for 
planning improvement or development of programs. We want to cite the problem of 

small communities not serviced by present agencies. 

We have identified the problem and are making recommendation that the Bureau 

of Indian Affairs should be assigned the Indian Housing Program. Bureau personnel 



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would understand our situation better. Machinery already exists for a solution to our 
housing needs. Does this need to be studied or should it just be implemented? 

Communication, if this means exchanging of information, is a real problem . A 
small group cannot get information. It must be taken to them . Learning of programs 
by accident is not good communications. Agencies service should be common knowledge, 
and programming, once requested, should be easier to acquire. Lfforts of various 
groups developing successful programs should be routed to a central clearing house 
for discussion of up-to-date knowledge. 

SHAW: We've just completed a Mutual Help housing project and, in regard to a 
BIA Housing Administration, they know nothing about construction. 

On our project, we were told participants would receive full credit for hours 
worked on Mutual Help homes. After completion of the project, participants were 
given the lease agreements to sign. It was then stated that full credit on equity would 
be only 580 hours . I questioned the housing representative on how long he knew this 
information to be final. He said, "Well, about a year and a half . " He didn't relate 
this to us until completion of the project. The house plans did not include certain items, 
such as floor tile and other things a completed home should have. There was just a bare 
concrete floor. When we went to PHA for additional monies for floor coverings we had 
no backing from BIA, We should have more cooperation, 

CARMACK: The question has reference to the housing officer, and I made a 
note and will look into the matter. I don't know how confusion about the nature of the 
equity OGOurred. The trouble arises, in part, in that we're attempting to assist 
administration of a program that, as you point out, we're not trained to do. 

SHAW: I would like to add just one bit. Our participants averaged around 2,000 
* hours and the lease amount was around 800 hours. When given credit for only 580 hours, 
you can see what they thought . 


ANDERSON: It might be advantageous if some Indian association could act as 
clearing house and collect a list of Indian towns in the construction field alone, and 
forward it to the government. If there’s good Indian supervisors available and 
unemployed, why can't they be used? Unless somebody collects it in one package and 
sends it to us, we can’t move. 

OMEN: The Red Lake housing program was set up as a Home Building -Training 
Program . Our boys get training in all phases of construction and have the blessings of 
the trade unions . After completion of training, the union steps in, looks over what 
they’ve done and the boys can join whatever union they've trained for. They pick up 
jobs off reservation or anywhere. We’re quite proud of it. 

SAMPSON: People living outside the reservation also need housing. Put us on 
record as asking to be included in housing projects. Give us money and materials and, 
by golly, we'll build houses! 

MONTOIA: Indians go to a housing authority, wander around, are told this and 
that and end up with nothing. 

ROLETTE: About a year ago, we organized a housing effort. They've been 
meeting every month, but one committee's term is up already! We replaced them, but 
still have the same trouble of too much delay! They sent me here to get encouragement 
for us . When I go back home, I’ll tell them what you men have said . 

SKENANDORE: I'd like to know if programs are now anticipated aimed at 

constructing community -type buildings? 

ANDERSON: Normally, in the Indian housing programs, community buildings 
are not provided as housing. Under very special cases perhaps, but normally we 
don't . 

CHAIRMAN: Some things I'm going to say, you may not like, but I want to tell 
you some facts of life about America today as they concern jobs. 



■ 559 , agff 




Jobs are not in rural America, but in metropolitan America. It's true of a great 
many rural communities, not necessarily reservations. Rural America of the horse 
and buggy days is dying. There are, no longer, the number of farmers doing business 
in these little towns, so little towns are dying and people go where there are jobs. You 
need to think about problems of housing and transportation as they relate to job oppor- 
tunities for Indians off reservations. 

There are a million small communities in this country which think some great 
industry will come in and save them from oblivion, but it won't happen! There isn t 
enough industry to go around and, as a result, areas won't have industries and jobs 
where people now are. It's a plain fact of life whether we like it or not. It's a fact you 
should discuss on your reservation. Consider problems that may arise with transpor- 
tation, with the kind of housing and programs necessary to keep them on the job, 
adequately housed, and happy . 

CARMACK: Hie Bureau, if we're funded at all next year, would like very much 
to begin an urban home ownership option for Indian people. There should be options in 
the employment system. We're trying to design one to assist an individual with not just 
transportation, counseling and subsistence until a first pay check but also with down 
payment on a home, because that might have a great deal to do with a person's attitude 
toward his new life. The small community and the Indian reservation are both rural, but 
the youth of the reservation have not left. What killed most little towns you and I came 
from was young people leaving. Half the Indian people are below 17 today, a young and 
expanding population, though still rural. 

MRS. NEWKUMET: As this pertains to the approximately 64 tribes of Indians 
in Oklahoma, what avenues do Indians in Oklahoma City have? Urban Renewal? 


ANDERSON: If they live in the city they have normal public housing available to 
them just as any non-Indian would. Nevertheless, we don't have Mutual Help housing 

in cities and Mutual Help is, in my estimation, a better deal. 

YANKEE: I've been chipping away for my people for a number of years now. 

I'm going on 70 and we still don't have adequate housing on our reservation. Years ago, 
my reservation was wiped out. They moved the reservation in 1901, but some people 
didn't go. They stayed at Malox Lake and are what they now call ''Unmovable Malox Lake 

Indians." In 1921, they passed an act to house people who didn t move. 

We have about 35 houses under a grant. We still need housing. I don't know how 
we're going to get it. You must pay to live in one of those houses and my people are not 
0 H employed. Johnson's Great Society came into the picture and very few are on relief. 

It is a good program . It's doing a lot of good for my reservation and I hope they keep it 


SOBOLEFF: I believe the Federal Government is interested in the total man, the 
whole man as an individual, and interested in our housing and employment. But I think 
my friend brought out something to be considered very seriously. We should be con- 
cerned about the social l ife of the American Indian as well. 1 notice various ones belong 
to very distinguished lodges and clubs. I think, by and large, most Indians need a reason, 
when not admitted, and this is where a reasonable community structure should be included 
in our housing program. It's well to have adequate housing for our people, but they need 
a place where they can develop their social life. They need this "getting together" that 
every -individual of any race or nation needs, such as in a community hall. 

It’s my recommendation that included in this program would be a social building 
or community hall, one we can be proud of. I'm sure this would add to the well-being of 

the American Indian . 


JACKSON: One thing I would say to you gentlemen. It's all right if you want to 
let your towns die, but we’re not going to let our reservations die. They are what we 
have, want and will develop. 

I think there should be high level meetings once in a while, between Weaver, 
Udall, Wirtz, and fellows who make these decisions. How informed are they on Indian 
problems? It looks like they could at least spend one hour a month in top-level meetings, 
talking about Indian problems, and informing themselves. 


Excerpted From: 






Frank E . Johnson 

Regional Administrator (Region IX) 
Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 
Denver, Colorado 

Walter Rapp 

Chief of Operations 

Oklahoma State Employment Service 

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

"The Tri-State Agreement" 
Presented by: Milton Graf, of 
The Arizona State Employment Service 

Agency Representatives 
Herbert Bechtold 

Charles Boyle 

John Ekeburg 

James Hart 

Walter Knodel 
Glen Mitchell 

Kelly Mudd 

Program Analyst 
(Indian Representative) 

Office of Economic Opportunity 
Washington, D. C. 


Arizona State Employment Service 
Phoenix, Arizona 

Regional Director 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 
Kansas City, Missouri 

Civil Service Representative 
U. S. Civil Service Commission 
Kansas City, Missouri 

Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Washington, D. C. 

Assistant Director 

Office of Special Activities 

Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training 

Washington, D. C. 

Regional Representative 

Department of Health, Education and Welfare 

Kansas City, Missouri 

Excerpted From 
PANEL NO. 7 (Continued) 


Other Participants 

Oscar Archiquette 

Vice Chairman 

United Tribe of Wisconsin 

Oneida, Wisconsin 

Ray Boyer 

Minnesota State Employment Service 
Bemidji, Minnesota 

John A . Clair 

Missouri Area Supervisor 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 
Kansas City, Missouri 

Jess Fletcher 


State Employment Service 
Helena, Montana 

Col . Alvin A . Katt 

Representative, Manpower and Development 
Community Action Program 
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 

Mrs. Florence Kinley 

Lummi Indian Tribe 
Marietta, Washington 

Emanuel L. Kohn 

Regional Director, USES 
Skokie, Illinois 

Dwaine M . LeBeau 

Director, C. A. P. 
Rosebud Sioux Tribe 
Rosebud, South Dakota 

Maurice F. Miera 


Minority Group Representative 
Bureau of Employment Security 
Regional Office 
Denver, Colorado 

Benedict Quigno 

Secretary, Saginaw Chippewa Tribe of Michigan, 
and Michigan State Commission on Indian Affairs 
Mt . Pleasant, Michigan 

Walter Rapp 

Chief of Operations 

Oklahoma State Employment Service 

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

Charles M. Schad 

Director , Special Services 
Black Hills State College 
Spearfish, South Dakota 

Bernard Schwarz 

Arizona State Employment Service 
Phoenix, Arizona 

Robert Treuer 

CAP Director 
Red Lake CAP 
Red Lake, Minnesota 

Excerpted From 
PANEL NO. 7 (Continued) 

Other Participants (continued) 
Mel Walker 

Frank Wetman 
Tandy Wilbur 

Edmond V. Worley 
Tom Youngworth 


Community Action Program 
Three Affiliated Tribes 
Mandaree, North Dakota 

(South Dakota — No other identification 
available . ) 


Swinomish Tribal Community, or, 
Skagit Tribe 
LaConner, Washington 

Regional Director, USES 
Cleveland, Ohio 

Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 
Regional Office 
Kansas City, Missouri 




CHAIRMAN: I think the reputation of our panel indicates the importance of our 

objective. We will begin with Mr. Milton Graf's statement on the Tri-State Agreement. 

GRAF: The Tri-State Agreement was between the Navajo tribe, U.S. Public Health 

Service, Bureau of Indian Affairs and Employment Services of Utah, New Mexico and 

To better illustrate its development, use and potential, I’d like to present some de- 

The agreement resulted from a meeting to extend specific guidelines for cooperation 
and coordination among all these parties involved in manpower services to Navajos. In 
1951, an agreement was drawn between the Bureau of Indian Affairs and Bureau of Employ- 
ment Security. In 1955, this was revised as a memorandum of understanding. It stated 
explicitly, and I quote, "All placement services and facilities, available to state and local 
employment, be made available, as feasible, to all Indians on reservations or immediately 
adjacent thereto, and who are actively seeking employment. 

The Navajo Reservation, as you know, covers tremendous areas of Utah, Arizona 
and New Mexico. Surveys indicate there are 65, 000 Navajos in Arizona, about 35, 000 
in New Mexico and 3, 000 to 4, 000 in Arizona. These are general figures. 

In subsequent years, development of new training programs and industry on the reserva 
tion accelerated use of Indians. Acceleration became greater after termination of the 
Braceros program. 

One shortcoming of the original agreement was that the tribe hadn t been included in 
the agreement on services. Utah which has Navajo land and tribes was not included 
and this caused a problem. In mid '65, the need became imperative, chiefly due to 
accelerated agricultural activity. Stresses and strains have required we work out some 
arrangement for a cooperative approach to problems that concerned all. 


A tentative 6-party understanding was reached, early in 1965. Some of you were at 
the Phoenix conference in April 1965. This conference was important for two reasons: 

1. It served as a final forum, an opportunity to ratify the Tri-State Agreement. 

2. A problem came up at this conference about, "What is the actual labor force on 
the Navajo Reservation?" 

Was it the total population of 108, 000? However, no figures were available at all 
on skills, kind of available work force or distribution of the work force. We have a labor 
force utilization survey going on now. ONEO is supplying the manpower for enumeration 
and other technical and professional people and BIA is interpreting the information and 
publishing it. We hope to have a document useful to industry in considering the Navajo 
Reservation as a plant site. 

The agreement was also useful, later in 1966, when ONEO developed a program of 
assistance for agricultural workers. Development of this agreement produced better re- 
lationships between the various parties involved. They all got to know each other better. 
This is a copy of the agreement to improve manpower service to Navajo tribes (indicating). 
This is the sole purpose. It cites responsibilities of each participant. 

Under terms of this agreement, the Navajo Tribal Council, BIA, New Mexico and 
Arizona have joint responsibility in the purposes. 

"All agencies will: 

1. Keep each other informed on development of activities covered by this agreement. 

2. Encourage development of local working arrangements and operating procedures 
to implement provisions of this agreement. 

3. Permit utilization of available facilities, reciprocally when necessary, to carry 
out responsibilities within respective spheres of activity. 


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4. The signatories agree this document shall be reviewed yearly. Changes or 
modifications required will be by mutual consent of Navajo Tribal Council, BIA, 

Public Health Service and the State Employment Services of New Mexico, Utah 
and Arizona." 

I hope discussion of this agreement, and the agreement itself, produced the kind of 
relationships now being carried out in the labor force utilization survey. If it s as pro- 
fessional and thorough as we expect, it will be a working document for years to come. 

FLETCHER: We've heard estimates on Indian unemployment from 40 percent up to 

80 percent. This indicates we need the type of information you're developing in Arizona. 

Who is participating in your survey, how is it being financed and carried out? 

GRAF: Originally estimates for the total labor survey ran pretty close to $100, 000. 

This includes hiring enumerators, various materials, transportation and supervision that 
may be required, and this is where it ran up on the rocks. There was some delay. As 

the survey was about to disintegrate, we found that the cooperation paid off. ONEO, in a con- 
ference at Gallup, New Mexico, suggested that their community workers could be diverted 
for a period of time as enumerators. This was very close to what we needed because they 
had 100 community workers and about 100 enumerators were needed. 

There were other costs involved and Employment Security approved a budget of $14, 000 

for the clerical, editing and publishing costs. The Bureau of Vital Statistics is an integral 
part. They must roster all Indians on the reservations and you need this roster to make 

a valid sample. 

KATT: What follow-up do you have for hiring and what kind of office procedure is 

set up? How do you carry on from there? 



GRAF: The supervisor is a research economist. Others, of a professional nature, 
have composed a questionnaire which develops necessary information. There are enough 
questions to develop information the Bureau and tribe both want in other areas. 

After the questionnaire is completed it will be analyzed and this is where the informa- 
tion will achieve greatest value. 

I presume this will become official information. If it isn't, I'll be highly disappointed. 

MIERA: I was told that HEW and BIA contributed $10, 000 each, that the survey was 
estimated to cost $30, 000, and you mentioned $14, 000 as a total. Did BIA and HEW get in 
on it? 

GRAF: Yes, $10, 000 was contributed by those two parties. The $14, 000 was for 

Employment Service's responsibilities in the survey. ONEO's 100 people probably meant 
$65, 000 worth of time. 

KNODEL: From experiences I've had, lack of information is a serious road block 

to economically developing an area. I have personal experience with rather large industries 
which have been toying with the idea of setting up business in the "Four Comers" area. 

One of the first things they want to know is what you have to offer. What is the manpower 
situation? What is the skill distribution? What is the education level? Up to now, this is 
a card we haven't had. In many cases, we've been losers at this game of economic develop- 
ment due to lack of information. This manpower data, in my judgment, is very vital to 
economic development. 

BECHTOLD: We consider our function in the manpower field as cement in building a 

wall. Most agencies have definite functions they perform to establish a manpower program. 
We consider ourselves as filling the small space where one agency’s obligation ends and 
another agency's obligation starts. Transporting trainees and other functions that can't 
be performed by some agencies, we see as our obligation. 


MUDD: We've been providing vocational education service for many years. We re 

ready to help in any way we possible can. We have manpower programs in several locations 

in the seven- state area. 

KATT: We're very interested in initiating more vocational training programs. Could 

you tell us what the tie-up is and how these channels work? Do we work through Indian 
Affairs in Washington? 

MUDD: I've been telling people for five years, but they don't listen very well and 

I'll be glad to tell you again! 

Any program is only as good as the local level. Washington can sit back and do what- 
ever they want and so can the regional and State. But you'll have*only as acknowledgeable a 
program as you folks isolate and do something about. Any time you get into difficulty, 
the problem is poor communications. 

KATT: We're concerned about funding. How much money would be available under 

the present set up? Are you in good shape? Can we get money? 

MUDD: This is something that irritates me a little bit. We don't have rubber wheel- 

barrows with rubber tires to bring it to you! When there is money from Federal govern- 
ment, there will be strings attached. We have found that if you get a good show on the 
local level, you can get money. It's time consuming. Everyone wants to coordinate, but 

no one wants to coordinate everyone else! 

I say very sincerely yoj should get a program first and don't worry about funding. 

Get a program that encompasses everything. The key, now, is multiple funding, and it 
can be done. I wouldn't worry about money. I'd design a program to take care of every- 
one. In manpower, all we can do is train. We can't buy glasses or fix feet, but other 
agencies can. To tell you how much we have -- I don't like to do that! 




S WS! 


KATT: This is what we need to know. This is a matter for discussion. It's 
relevant to me case here. We do have a particular program. We must reach certain 
titles for certain things and it gets confusing. We can come up with something, but we 
must go to too many places to get it rolling. I have a manpower program now that is 
"my baby" . You've given me something to work with. 

QUIGNO: In yesterday's panel, I took notes. I won't quote the gentleman's name, 
but he said, "You won't get all the money you need. You must fight for your money. Make 
use of what you get. You must have help to coordinate the program, but you won't get the 
kind of money you need. " 

Is this communication? 

CHAIRMAN: Panel #6 relates to housing, transportation and communications. Ours 

is coordination and cooperation of various agencies. 

QUIGNO: I guess I'm in the wrong pew. 

CHAIRMAN: Your point is important whether we're talking about specialized fields 

or others . 

QUIGNO: Aids are available, but how to get them is not easy. We come to many con- 
ferences and learn many things, but the Indians at home can't make the changes resulting 
from the conferences. 

CHAIRMAN: Whether it is Saginaw, Michigan, or some spot in Montana, we'll have 

the common problem you're identifying. 

WORLEY: Money is scarce and you must fight for it, but I think Mr. Quigno referred 

to a point intended to be the same as Kelly Mudd's. You should have a program and then 
start your fight. It's pretty useless otherwise, because everyone would like $40, 000 for 
"this, " but no one quite knows what "this" is. 



CLAIR: Primarily I came to talk about Neighborhood Youth Corps. NYC has a great 

number of projects. We're now at a point where we can begin to think about coordination. 

We have documented proof through our sponsors on what they need. The question now is 
what amount of cooperation can we get in setting up programs to develop manpower for 
this country? 

CHAIRMAN: The Civil Service Commission has quite a role in coordinating federal 

agencies and I notice there's a new term; it's MUST, M-U-S-T. 

HART: MUST means Maximum Utilization of Skills and Training. Its application is a 

spreading out of highly skilled people to take in people with lower attainments at the bottom. 
The government is very much concerned with coordinating efforts in developing people for 
satisfactory performance in a job. 

With 2-1/2 million employees, the government is the largest single employer. MUST 
is one of many, many tools we're exploring. We're reviewing the qualification requirements 
of federal positions necessary to recruiting people at the minimum entry level. Some- 
where in Federal employment is practically every skill and occupation you could find in 
private employment. 

WALKER: If the government is really serious about helping us as tribes, could you 

not help us develop our own people? Could you not help us in the education field, training 
our own people to take over teaching positions? We can do a better job. 

We talk to agencies which have trouble staffing for our areas. We have many people 
who could be doing this work. We have many people in aide positions who'll be doing that 
work for a long time because there are no opportunities to develop. 

HART: One thing we in Federal government tend to do is generalize about people. 

With an occupation we’re dealing with one fellow and one objective. 


KATT: What we need is an air-tight program to develop the individual from Head 

Start straight through. He'd be ready when he was through. 

MITCHELL: The Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training is a division of Manpower 

Administration. There are many avenues of entrance into these programs; preapprentice- 
ship, vestibule training, vocational education centers. We think we've been very effective. 
We haven't reached as many people as we'd hoped to. There are in excess of 60 programs 
of on-the-job training involving Indians. 

WALKER: We talk about individuals, but there's a great deal of strength in tribal 

groups . We've helped develop countries all over the world, but when we think of Indian 
reservations in this_country, we sort of want everybody in the main stream and don’t try 
to strengthen the tribe. 

MITCHELL: By getting your own contract, your tribal group would be responsible. 

You'd operate it and develop your own teachers. There are funds available, but it will 
take assistance in developing a package proposal. There are funds available for good 
programs . 

In this Tri- state Agreement, what purpose is going to be made of the results of this 
survey? Are you going to establish training programs to meet a need or are you going 
to establish training programs to assist industry that indicates an interest? If this is true, 
representatives of the Bureau are definitely interested and, I think, should be brought into 

this. Our national office should be advised of the results. 

HART: We've finished a study of Federal employment that might interest you. We 

concentrated on the seven states in which the her-iest Indian population resides; Arizona, 
California, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma and South Dakota. Two- 
thirds of the Indian population resides in those seven states. 



In those same states there are 393, 0G0 federal employees. In Arizona there are 
22, 000 federal employees and 13.7 percent are Indian. In New Mexico out of 24, 000 
federal employees, 10 percent are Indians. In South Dakota Indians make up 10.7 per- 
cent of 8, 545 federal employees. Three- tenths of 1 percent of the total population is Indian, 
and employment in Federal government is 1. 1 percent, or almost 4 times the percentage 
of population. Three and two-tenths percent of federal employees in those 7 states are 
Indians . 

RAPP: I'm familiar with the problems of the Indians. We have some fairly wealthy 

Indians in Oklahoma and others living in abject poverty. The problem is real. The thing 
that meant most to me was said by one of the chiefs yesterday, when he stated, All this, 
from the Great White Father, is much cloud. Now I hope there's a little bit of rain." 

GRAF: I didn't think my information about our mobilization agreement would generate 

so much interest. A labor mobilization study of an Indian reservation is a diamond. It 
has many facets. Do not think of this as an industrial development gimmick. Industrial 
development is just one part of its total use. The schedule for this survey is a six-month 


MITCHELL: I have one question. On your survey form -- I'm not attempting to knock 

another government agency or anything like that -- but I know that every 10 years they take 
another census. In listing trade classifications or skills of the head of the household, they 
report, "Well, I work in a machine shop" or "I work in a garage. " They are listed as a 
mechanic, or tool and die maker. I hope, in your survey, you come to an accurate deter- 
mination of the actual skills, so all of us can use it 1 

GRAF: I'm going to refer to Mr. Schwartz who's in charge of this survey and can 

detail more of the questionnaire. 


SCHWARZ: The occupation definition must be relatively broad. We're not going to 

say that everyone who works in a machine shop is a machinist, but we'H know how many 
people work in a machine shop industry. We'll also attempt to give skill classification. 

MUDD: Is this going to be put on "hardware" of some kind? 

SCHWARZ: The entire survey is. 

MUDD: Are you using Social Security numbers? 

SCHWARZ: No, it's a tribal number. 

MUDD: Why aren't you using Social Security numbers? 

SCHWARZ: Every Navajo knows his tribe number. They have a census number and 

we carrying this down to age 14 and above. 

MUDD: If we wanted to "tune in" another "brain, " wouldn't it be better if they had a 

Social Security number the day they're born if they want one? 

SCHWARZ: We have a problem in that the individual survey is confidential. The 
census number is for identification as long as the survey is being conducted, but there won't 
be any individual survey other than . . . 

MUDD: You said we're going to work togetherl We axe going to work together! 

Why don't we get with it? We can't'tune in on what you're doing because of all this 
"noise" you give us! How can you help a person if you don't know about them? 

SCHWARZ: What person don't you know of? 

MUDD: Forget it! 

CHAIRMAN: You’re talking about Social Security numbers? 

MUDD: Yes. Why can't we all tune in on that? 

KNODEL: I can cite reasons, if I may. This is on objective guess but knowing the 
Navajo situation while not claiming to be totally qualified and the people the survey will 
embrace, I'll bet you 25 percent will not have a Social Security number! 


MUDD: Sir, the only point I'm trying to make is that one of the best identifications 

we can have if all agencies are to help is to put things on hardware so we can tune to 
the same frequency! 

SCHWARZ: BIA originally wanted the individual identifications from the survey for 

use by their various groups in finding out who wants to be trained, for example. In the 
task force discussion, it was decided this type of information would not be released. 

Many of the Navajo are reticent about releasing the type of information we're asking for 
and the assurance of confidence has been a great help in getting information from these 
people. Since we assured them the information would remain confidential, we can t break 
this truce. 

GRAF: This survey has really taken nine years to accomplish. It was that long ago 

that written discussions between the Bureau, Employment Service and other interested 
parties were initiated. Over the nine - year period, it took a lot of public relations, 
coordination and cooperation to reach this point. The interest of the total survey is much 
greater than to include, say, Social Security numbers. 

CHAIRMAN: Both points are well taken. I think you've explained why it isn't practical 

in this instance but Mr. Mudd makes a good point for other projects. 

MRS. KINLEY: How do we go about getting a survey like this for the smaller reserva- 

tions? Who do we see about it? 

KNODEL: Washington State Employment Service is the first place. 

KATT: Are there other things that should be included? Things you'd have liked put 
in, but didn't? 

SCHWARZ: There are certainly some questions we would have liked to ask, but 

couldn't. Actual interviewing is conducted by the Navajo. Some have a limited educational 

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background and the questionnaire had to be designed for use within their capabilities. In 
some instances, it will give us broad answers where we wanted narrow answers. 

MITCHELL: If this information is pertinent, will the Navajo Tribal Council have it? 

Will you maintain this employment service record? 

SCHWARZ: Once the information has been tabulated, the questionnaires will be sealed 

by agreement of the task force. They won't be open to anyone. If the Navajo tribe is one 
of the agencies on the task force, they’ve also agreed to this. Using the sample for any 
action program would be unfair to those who didn't give to the sample. 

KATT: One element here is the difficulties we have in taking surveys because of their 

reactions. They feel they're surveyed to death and they'll slam the door in your face. 
"Another survey? To heck with it." 

SCHWARZ: As I said, the Navajo community aides of the ONEO Program are con- 

ducting the survey. 

CHAIRMAN: I notice Mr. Rapp has a rather impressive publication in front of him 

called, "Indians in Oklahoma. " 

RAPP: Well, we felt the same need for information and last year completed a social- 

economic study of the Oklahoma Indians. It contains information such as age, education 
attainments, income, various areas of employment and this sort of thing. We found this 
document in demand. We had to reprint four or five times and it's available to anyone. 

BOYER: Cooperation through agencies is possible. For example, we worked out a 

training project in the building trades with OEO . After running it for three months, we 
switched it to an MDTA project for nine more months with the cooperation of Health, Edu- 
cation and Welfare. 

With respect to the survey we're entering into, we have a reservation of 50 square 
miles and a little less than 4, 000 people. V/e're making a complete survey. OEO has a 

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Social Services project and this component is furnishing us with "legs" for the survey. 

We've involved Public Health Service, the BIA, Employment Assistance people and a 
tribal council. I want to especially mention the involvement of the tribal council. They 
really helped us. The tribal council is needed for good will, publicity and word of mouth 

information so we'll be accepted by the people. 

ARC HIQUE TTE : What can be done for people 40 to 60 years old in the low education 

bracket? I am 60 years old. Do you expect me to go to college? It takes four or five 
years to finish college. I'd be 65 before I could finish. In other words, I don’t think Indians 
40 and over will be employed in industry. The white man of the same age can’t be em- 
ployed in industry. How will the Indian make a living from 40 until he reaches the age 

for Social Security? I think this should be discussed. 

KNODEL: Your question is a very good one. There's a big push on, as some of my 

colleagues at the table will verify, something approaching a massive effort on the part of 
government, to innovate and plan programs to encourage industry, through some means, 

to take care of such workers. 

CHAIRMAN: Let's start with the President's State of the Union Message. Of highest 

priority was consideration for the older worker. Mandatory retirement in Federal govern- 
ment is at 70! The philosophy is to have a complete open door for the 40 to 60 age group. 
MITCHELL: The mention of age is prohibited. You must take all age brackets above 

the minimum age of 16. 

RAPP: This is a tough one. There’s no answer to the many problems of older workers . 

I know that recently instructions to Manpower Development Training and to Bureau of 
Apprenticeship Training stated that future training would be centered around the disad- 
vantaged. The disadvantaged are people over 45! This entails short training programs 
followed by special assistance for people of this age. 


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BECHTOLD: Bureaucracy £an function without paper. Are we not disillusioning our- 

selves about this man who passes the age of 35? If J[_ were unemployed, I could no longer 
be retrained. I heard Walt Knodel, with all due respect since I'm a former BIA employee, 
state that people over 35 will be trained. Up until very recently, BIA had an assistance 
office which quite specifically stated that, "If you're over 35, don't bother us, " in very 
nice diplomatic language. 

Mr. Boyer's successful program should get him a raise which he probably didn't get 

for being one of the people who forced the Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training to 
raise qualifications in the apprentice program to include people who were over 35. 

It took Mr. Boyer to convince his state office, federal office, and HEW that people over 
35 have some dignity and some right to be employed. 

We train youth, but we throw the father out in the street. This bothers me, now that 
I am 40 years old! Everyone wants to help my son, but no one cares what happens to me! 

The point I want to make is that we must be realistic in relation to this technological 
world. We don't start and stay in one trade all our lives. Three-fourths of the jobs to be 
filled in 1975, we haven’t even heard of. They don't exist now. 

BOYER: In Minnesota, the older worker is tied in through Employment Service, OEO 

and Title V. We ran tests on the first dozen men and women in the program and found that, 
although doing well, they were often too gabby and couldn't hold the job. In fact, they had 
interest, aptitude and everything required to be a skilled v/orkman, while over 40, This 
was true for 4 of the 12. One was so unsanitary and "stinky" they didn't want him on the 

They're developing other projects and if this cooperation among agencies is built up, 
we can do a hell of a job for all our workers. 

crew. These are social problems that need adjustment, but they're related to the work 




LE BEAU: Reservation people, especially in our area, have been surveyed to death. 

I think a survey is only for one purpose and a survey can only get certain results. In the 
Rosebud area, we've developed a total, comprehensive program. 

Our basic problem is lack of facilities and materials and, in one area, we've combined 
survey and research on a limited basis. A couple of years ago, we couldn't say what jobs 
the people could actually do . However, this has been researched and, in relation to a point 
I think Mr. Mudd brought out, on results of the survey , we let too many people have access 
to it! We lost an industry because one company conducted research and another company 
thought the first one was expediting our labor force. Consequently, sometimes these things 
have to be kept confidential . 

We always ask three things of any federal, state, county, local or whatever, agency. 
What can you assist us with in time, money or personnel? I ask specifically what the 
agencies on this panel can provide us in these three areas. 

A survey can only show you one thing; what a person thinks he can do! We've thrown 
together a pretty good piece of work. It was worth $1, 700, 000 to construct 375 homes. 

You get results from people if they're doing things they feel they can do best. 

YOUNGWORXH: The Employment Service and the tribal council at Rosebud have been 

trying for at least a year to station an interviewer on the reservation. South Dakota got 
two individuals from Employment Service. I believe one of them is going to Rosebud. 

CLAIR: One thing we try to do is help the local sponsor understand his responsibilities. 

YOUNGWORTH: We don't have the staff or the ability to do the job. We don't have 

technical assistance. I'm not educated. The Federal agencies are supposed to provide 
technical assistance. This is why I asked about personnel. 

SCHAD: This surveying is a constant badgering of Indian people and you get a little 

tired of it. 


We’re functioning at Black Hill State College under a grant from Department of Labor 
for this particular type of program. We've stationed a young lady in the Rapid City area. 
This is revealing information that research people would rather I didn’t bring up, but I 
think it’s important. We’ve found bias and prejudice against off- reservation Indians as 
well as on-reservation Indians. A survey is the only answer and it gives an indication 
of what people might do and what aptitudes and attitudes they have. 

South Dakota is losing its talented non-Indian to the urban area. Mr. LeBeau said the 
reservation will get worse because the "better" people are leaving and you re working 
with an element not as "good. " I think I’m a realist. Let’s do research realistically. 

Let the chips fall where they may. 

I compare it to the national debt. There are two theories on the national debt. You 
can forget about it and say it doesn’t exist or have an inflationary period of five years 
and wipe it out. You might do this with Indians. You might forget about those 40 to 80 
year olds and concentrate on those under 40. But you can’t do it with humansj 

You not only have an economic lag, you have a cultural lag, an educational lag, 
an economic lag, and all these things produce factors that make it very difficult to solve 

problems in one sweeping piece of research. 

I would hope that any research would be realistic and, as much as possible, be done 
by competent Indian people supported by state colleges and universities, BIA and the De- 
partment of Labor through their time, personnel and know-how. Cooperate! If it takes 
Social Security numbers, let’s use them or anything else that makes it more meaningful 
to the Indian and non- Indian, because we share this thing together. 

KNODEL: That doesn’t answer my question. These programs take care of a segment 

of our population within a certain area and age bracket, but that’s only part of them. We’re 
interested in a total program from minimum work age to those ready to retire. We want 


to hit all segments . 

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CHAIRMAN: Part of the answer, I think, is on the drawing boards. There is a 

mandate of future planning for comprehensive manpower programs for each State. But . . . 

LE BEAU (interrupting): What applies to states, doesn't apply to reservations! 

TREUER: I want to support Mr. LeBeau's point. We tried in 1965 to come to grips 

with the same problem. A locally controlled Manpower Development Training Center as 
part of our Community Action program tapped resources represented in part by you gentle- 
men to approach our manpower problems . Suffice to say that this kind of proposal is met 
with something less than enthusiasm! It didn't get off the ground. We run into snags here 
and there, but overall I think there can be no complaints. When you get into centralized 
planning, and this covers a number of agencies, it's pretty difficult. 

The only answer we've been able to come up with is not satisfactory because it doesn't 
give us the technical punch we need. In our Nelson proposal, we've requested research and 
rehabilitation people, but at this time, the reservation Nelson Amendment proposals are 
dormant. We hope they come out before the fiscal year ends. 

MUDD: One thing you should do immediately is get involved in state planning for next 

year. You should do so even if you had an unhappy situation last year. I understand the 
state plan is to be made up with more agencies than last year. 

KOHN: The state plan must take into account the total needs of the total manpower 

of the state. I should detail as much as possible the needs of specific areas. Federal 
people will have the opportunity to assist the state in setting priorities for various needs 
as they're expressed. 

Mr. Youngworth talked about the Human Resource Development program. There was 
criticism that we intended to emphasize youth in most of these programs. This is true 
to some extent. But the lessons we learned in improving employability of youth are now 
being applied to the total population and all age groups will be receiving attention in each 

of the states . 


FLETCHER: I want to emphasize development of state training plans. We got our 

guidelines 10 days ago. They specifically point out who s to be represented and I can t 
recall that anyone is left out. 

KNODEL: I want the opportunity of rebuttal to the reactions to my comments on age. 

I don't deny there may be misinterpretation in the field; I run into it all the time. We 
shall engage our training with Indians who are "primarily" between the ages of 18 and 35. 

I have said over and over that we interpret "primarily" to mean 51 percent and I'm not a 
bit disturbed if 49 percent of our trainees are over 35. We have many Indians in training 
who are a great deal over 35. 

MITCHELL: I understood you to give credit to a gentlemen who had forced the Bureau 

of Apprenticeship to raise its age limit for those entering an apprenticeship program. The 
Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training has never had an age limit! Standards of apprentice- 
ship are developed by industry and labor, not the Bureau of Apprenticeship. 

WILBUR: First, I'd like to make an observation. This has been a very, very inter- 

esting session for me. I suppose you gentlemen realize Indians have had problems for 
many years in integrating with other people. Now, I understand there's a problem of inte- 
gration between agencies . " I certainly wish you a lot of luck! 

I want to ask what is probably a stupid question, but I'm inquisitive. We re very 
interested in CAP programs as reported by various tribes. We asked once to be in on it. 

We were last to be invaded by the white man and will probably be last to get a CAP program. 
We're not disillusioned or disappointed. We're interested in a contract, referred to by one 
of the panel members, and I want to know who we can contact. 

MITCHELL: May I see you after the meeting? Fine. 

WETMAN: I'd like to ask Mr. Hart if there's Indian preference for Bureau of Indian 

Affairs jobs? 


HART: Yes, there's preference similar to veterans for veterans. 

WETMAN: If applicants were a white man and an Indian, the Indian would be given 


HART: That's my understanding. 

YOUNGWORTH: North and South Dakota got two staff members and it's rather 

ridiculous to think that by giving them two staff members they might be able to work more 
closely with the reservation. They asked for seven and got two! 

Excerpted From: 





Agency Representatives 
Jack P. Jayne 

Orval D. Packard 

Other Participants 

George T. Barett 

Carl F. Fryhling 

Oswald C. George 

Dorance Horseman 

Kalervo Makela 

Domingo Montoya 

Frank A. Potter 

Director of Farm Labor Service 
U. S. Department of Labor 
Bureau of Employment Security 
Washington, D. C. 

Morris Leonard 

State Director 

Oklahoma State Employment Service 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

Area Employment Assistance Officer 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Muskogee, Oklahoma 


Office of Farm Labor Service 
Washington, D. C. 

Area Employment Assistance Officer 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Portland, Oregon 


State Employment Security Bureau 
Bismarck, North Dakota 

Tribal Vice Chairman 
Coeur d'Alene Tribe 
Plummer, Idaho 


Fort Belknap Agency 
Harlem, Montana 

Farm Labor Service, Regional Office 
Bureau of Employment Security 
Kansas City, Missouri 


All Indian Public Council 
Bernalillo, New Mexico 



Excerpted From 
PANEL NO. 8 (Continued) 

Other Participants 

Owen Nielsen 

Farm Placement Supervisor & Indian Program 
Employment Security Department 
Aberdeen, South Dakota 

Mrs. Florence Sigo 

Squaxin Tribe, Chairman 
Shelton, Washington 

Am ar ante Silva 

Tribal Secretary 

Santa Clara Tribal Council 

Santa Clara Pueblo, New Mexico 

Herman Townsend 

Chairman, Tribal Council 

Fort Bidwell Reservation (California) 

Bly, Oregon 

Mrs. Laura Wilbur 

Secretary -Treasurer 
Swinomish Tribal Community 
LaConner, Washington 

William Youpee 

Tribal Chairman 
Fort Peck Tribes 
Poplar, Montana 



CHAIRMAN: I would lixe to briefly review what took place in farm labor last year. 

I think it significant that total job placement jumped substantially and with less problems 
than ever in recruiting. This came about through tribal leaders accepting a great share of 
the responsibility for recruitment on the reservation. 

There are good earnings to be made in agriculture and more highly skilled jobs be- 
coming available. Right now, we have approximately 2000 orders for year-round workers. 
Those orders range in wages from $250 to $500 a month, plus housing, utilities, use of 
automobiles, insurance, vacation, garden plot, dairy products and so on. The farmer is 
beginning to realize he must be competitive. But the worker today isn t the farmhand I knew 
when I was a kid. Today, you must have skills. You not only must be able to drive a tractor, 
but maintain it. You not only must know how to put fertilizer, insecticides and chemicals 
on crops, but be able to mix them for climatic conditions. One of our concerns is the need 
for upgrading skills of our farm people. I'm about convinced that if you work on a farm 
at $300 or $400 a month, you're much better off than you would be, say, living in New York 
at $10, 000 a year. 

PACKARD: I went to work for the Office of Farm Labor Service last August and have 

been doing a lot of research, but I still haven't made it through the Indian file. 

The significant thing is that tribal councils have entered into agreements with the Office 
of Farm Labor Service to carry out such things as recruitment and placement on the reserva- 
tion. Two agencies most affect Indian employment, the Office of Farm Labor Service and 
theU.S. Forest Service. 

The significant thing in employment history is cooperative work agreements . At this 
point, I'm convinced we should enter into more agreements with more tribal councils. 
Legislation was once worked up with tribal councils to outlaw wildcat recruiting on Indian 
reservations. People would come in with trucks, load up Indian workers, never pay what 



was agreed to, and then leave them stranded. It was such a hardship for Indian workers 

that resolutions were adopted by tribal councils. 

We want to make employment as much a part of tribal government as any other problem. 

In Oklahoma, we found wildcatting and my advice is that this can be overcome through Em 
ployment Service. When you deal with a contractor on your own and he doesn’t pay what 
he said he’d pay you, there isn’t much you can do. You don’t have anything on paper. All 
job orders placed with Farm Labor Service stipulate the employer’s name, wages, housing 
and all conditions. When documented through Employment Service, you can build a legal 
case for the courts. You don’t have to worry about paying the cost either because the court 

will probably assess the employer. 

We must face the fact that Indian people live in rural areas and were bom and raised 
in the country. Agriculture is something they live with but the old common labor, the stoop 
laborer, is fast disappearing. Employment is sometimes right in in the community, but it s 

not developed. 

GEORGE: We have timber and agriculture. Principal crops are such that you raise 

what you get the most money lor. Farmers are allowed to grow just so much wheat. This 
has had an effect on our area. In past years, they Introduced a Wheat called ' Gaines, 
made by Washington State University. It's growth is phenomenal. Going back many years 
where we had 30 bushels to the acre, they got a different kind of wheat and it went up to, 
say 40 bushels. This Gaines wheat has at times exceeded 100 bushels to the acre! It s 
just phenomenal. Now they have "New Gaines." Present figures, however, are from an 
average of what was raised in the past. If you had gottten 40 bushels to the acre in the past, 
that's what they’ll pay you for. Now, with this new seed that averages maybe 80 bushels, 
you produce more, but only get paid for 40! The only way to get more money is on the market! 

That, I think, is quite a sore spot with farmers. 


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CHAIRMAN: You also mentioned having a lumbering industry. You probably have 

a substantial number of people trained for the lumbering industry, is that right? 

GEORGE: Yes. In the past, we had virgin timber. They built a railroad with it until 

it gave out. We still have most of our good timber on tribal lands, but some really fine 
timber is going to waste because it's overmatured. The tribe has put $100, 000 into a ply- 
wood business in the city of St. Mary's. The Small Business Administration had a deal, an 
old deal, and the community had to participate before they could get money. The only people 
the community could fall back on was the tribe. So the tribe put up $100, 000 and now we 
have a plywood factory at St. Mary's that employs ^^WperceM Indians! 

PACKARD: What is wrong there? 

GEORGE: They have employed Indians, but there s that old expression, Y 

a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!" The Indian was prone to not always be 
on time and a mill can operate successfully only if the workers are there all the time. But 
for us, the bad thing was the distance. It's at one corner of the reservation and the distance 
was 60 miles a day. They had to commute back and forth by car or whatever. Many were 

put on the graveyard shift. 

CHAIRMAN: No housing was provided at the mill site? 

GEORGE: Not at St. Mary's. It was quite difficult. We made that town into a booming 

city, but it’s for the city people rather than the Indian tribe. 

CHAIRMAN: This is a familiar story. 

PACKARD: Total number of people employed? 

GEORGE: 100 to 120 workers. 

CHAIRMAN: Apparently you have enough timber to keep them employed if you can 

keep them at work? 


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GEORGE: Many Indians own timber, but can’t log it! The department won't let you. 

You must have permission to cut your own timber ! My brother plans to have his timber 
cut and is hiring someone to do it. We used to pay back 10 percent to the government, but 
now they’ve raised it to 15 percent. In other words, if you get $1000, you must pay $150 
to the government. 


GEORGE: They charge you 15 percent for checking on how much timber you have and 

for marking trees! 

CHAIRMAN: George, would you know about any representation FLS might have on 

Mrs. Tandy's reservation in Washington state? Any recruiters? 

BARETT: I don’t know of any recruitment, except on occasion. Agriculture in the 

Portland area would be in Yakima County. Normally, Indians in that area have a pattern of 
following the crops. There's a certain group who likes that kind of life. The Warm Springs 
Indians work from summer right up to fall. It's a calm life. They like to get together 
around their tents at night and work in the fields by day. It gives them outdoor camping in 
the summer. They’d follow that pattern yet, but everything is mechanized now. 

MRS. WILBUR: Quite a few work on farms, but we live in the small place of La Conner, 


PACKARD: How many people do you have on your reservation? 

MRS. WILBUR: About 360. 

MRS. SIGO: I’m chairman of a small group and I'm a farmer, too, but not like you folks. 

We're oyster and clam farmers. Our product is grown on the reservation and it's awfully 
hard to get a loan for a project. The oyster business is really growing now, but most of 
our people are loggers and mill workers. Some of our boys have studied to be teachers 
and some are engineers. We’re doing fine except for one project we can't get built up. 

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We're getting other people interested now, and we want to start a 100 percent oyster and 
clam farm project. 

CHAIRMAN: I suspect this is a little out of our area, but I'd leave it to Bureau of 

Indian Affairs people to see what could be done about loans to develop your industry. 

GEORGE: Her case is very unusual. Her tribe does not live on a reservation. Their 

reservation is an island and the island is such they can't live on it. They have no electricity. 
So they have a reservation, but yet they're off the reservation. The government can't help 
them, because they’re not reservation Indians even though they have a reservation! They 
have a difficult problem. In fact, we never knew about it until it was mentioned at a meetmg! 

MRS. SIGO: We had a meeting in Spokane and they've given us medical care and things 

like that, now. I think we're getting more services but, like I say, I really don't have a 
complaint except that we want help on that one project. 

BARETT: Would EDA set a figure on that? 

CHAIRMAN: I don't know enough about how they operate. It seems to me a project 

of this type could be developed and somebody would come up with the money. 

BARETT: Have you discussed this with your credit officers? 

MRS. SIGO: Yes. It seems everyone we go to stops us. 

BARETT: Because of the status of your land? 

MRS. SIGO: Yes. It's a reservation and they don't want to tie up their money. 

They're afraid we'd lose it. 

BARETT: Have you talked to Small Business Administration? 

MRS. SIGO: Yes. 

BARETT: No luck? 

MRS. SIGO; No. We tried everyone. It always ends up that if it wasn't on the reserva- 
tion, it would be fine. 


BARETT: Are your oyster beds on the island site? 

MRS. SIGO: Yes. That's where the pinch is. 

CHAIRMAN: I think we need a millionaire with a lot of money who doesn't know where 

to put it. 

BARETT: Many Indians work in the summertime and fall finds them free to do things 

they'd like to do traditionally. Incidentally, this might be considered the problem we're 
continually living with, in terms of year-round employment. But who are we? The older I 
get, the more philosophical I get. Maybe the Indians are right and everybody else is crazy 
for the simple reason, I think they're happier! They have fewer ulcers, do things they like 
to do, and get paid for it! 

CHAIRMAN: I agree with you, 100 percent. 

BARETT: I really mean it! Exposing them to this rat race we're living in today with 

all of its tensions, you wonder if you're really doing them a service! Go out into the wooded 
areas where Ozzie is from or the Blue Mountains where Steve Hall is from . You look out 
on the beauty of that country and you ask yourself, "Why should I go to a big, grimy, 
dirty city, with all its problems?" There's a decided advantage in rural living, no question 
about it! 

CHAIRMAN: The Indian just doesn't know he's living in poverty! 

BARETT: That's right! 

CHAIRMAN: Somebody has to tell him he has a tough life! 

BARETT: That's right! 

CHAIRMAN: Perhaps we should emphasize that there are reservations unable to support 

all the people. For those who feel they should leave or want to leave for educational facili- 
ties, we should step in and offer help. Those who want to leave on a seasonal basis, 1 think 
we can also help. I'd be the last person to ask someone to move to a city and acquire the 
ulcers and frustrations many of us have. 


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TOWNSEND: When I finished school, we had about 18 homes filled and all the Indians 

were employed on the range. Then machinery gradually took over and the Indians found 
themselves without work. Today, there's only one Indian I know of in our community em- 
ployed on the range. They moved into smaller localities that had lumber camps or small 
sawmills and found employment there. Many are beginning to realize they better take ad- 
vantage of the opportunities now open to them. Of course, one trouble we run into in my 
area is that we're just over the border in Oregon. I don't know how many families are involved, 
maybe 8 or 10. They're eligible and within the age limit. They apply for training in Oakland. 
They ride down to Sacramento, put in an application, and then comes a letter saying, "You're 
in Oregon, We're sorry." 

BARETT: You get in touch with me if you're in Oregon! 

TOWNSEND: I'm chairman of the Tribal Council and I live in Oregon, too! 

PACKARD: Are many of your people unemployed? 

TOWNSEND: In the winter! Some operations are seasonal. 

CHAIRMAN: There are agricultural opportunities in California, pretty much year- 

round. If your activities slow down there and your people want to move to seasonal employ- 
ment in the central valley, this certainly could be arranged. 

TOWNSEND: Well, they just can't get out into cities or urban areas and make it. 

They ran into some problems in Oakland. Four of my children are in Oakland right now. 

My daughter knew a girl who was in her room for 30 days! Stayed there all the time, because 
she was afraid to go out. They don't like to move into the city. They can always go back to 
the reservation and not have to pay rent! 

CHAIRMAN: I think you should now secede to Oregon and we'll turn this over to 

Mr. Barett to see that training is arranged. 



TOWNSEND: If they train as auto mechanics and there's an opening, they won't go 

in and apply for it. Very seldom will they sell their skills personally. I took up steam 
engineering at Sherman. After I graduated, I came back to the reservation. I had a few 
cattle, but I finally saw that it wouldn't pay off and I looked for a job in the mills. Went in 
as a fireman-turbine operator in a steam turbine plant. I also worked for 13 years as a 
dragline operator. I once got a job as a watchman. I worked my way up and was promoted 
to where I am now . 

PACKARD: What's your job now? 

TOWNSEND: I'm a steam engineer for Loveless Lumber Company. We have a big 

camp that employs quite a few people and there's plenty of opportunity for employment if 
they want to work . 

CHAIRMAN: Apparently your people are not of sufficient number to do much in agri- 

cultural employment. Those with a desire for seasonal earnings could certainly arrange 
it though. They won't have to move too far. 

GEORGE: There's opportunity for work and I was curious to know why others of your 

people haven't gone to the same location? 

TOWNSEND: Those in Oregon, say in Lakeview, a town about 40 miles either way, 

are employed in mills there. 

GEORGE: There are other mills besides yours? 

TOWNSEND: Yes. There are six sawmills there. Klamath Falls, I imagine, has 

about six big operations too. 

PACKARD: Are you the only Indian involved there? 

TOWNSEND: Right now, I am. 

PACKARD: How many are employed? 




TOWNSEND: In the plant, they employ 70. Then they have wood crews. There's also 
a shortage of cat skinners . When I first went to the plant, the superintendent said he had 
an awful time with labor, trying to hold people there -- this involves white people, too. 
They're coming and going all the time . He said he'd like to have them work steady. 

CHAIRMAN: We have about half an hour and I'd like to hear more on labor move- 
ments that may have taken place this past year . 

NIELSON: We had close to 100 in Washington State on asparagus. In August, we had 
200 in Colorado on tomatoes, 11 in Michigan on pickles and 36 in Wisconsin on pickles and 
in plant work. We recruited about 200 for Green Giant in Minnesota, some for the Turkey 
Growers Association in Nebraska, and about 30 for the Heinz Company at Muscatine, 

Iowa. The reports are pretty good. They seem well pleased with the work and we're 
quite sure we'll have to expand our recruiting. 

CHAIRMAN: What about earnings, Warren? 

NIELSON: They didn't make too much money when they got to Colorado for the first 
picking. They were driving about 50 to 60 miles one way to work. They'd leave early and 
get back late . Denver felt that something had to be done to help these people such as 
travel expenses because they weren't making enough money. But in the height of the picking, 
a number of workers made $25 to $30 a day. They did real well. 

CHAIRMAN: Have you received an order for this coming season? 

NIELSON: We have no firm orders, but I talked to Green Giant at our Bismarck 
meeting and they definitely will be back. They might be back earlier, if we can recruit 
tractor drivers . 

CHAIRMAN: Carl, have you had any subsequent calls from food processing people? 

FRYHLING: No. We talked to a food processor in Michigan in late fall. My advice 
to him was to get in earlier. You recall that two years ago, when they pulled the rug out 


from under us, it took over a year to get back on speaking arrangements with the reserva- 
tion people. This year, I expect a better acceptance. 

SILVA: A year or two ago, maybe more, they surveyed the Pueblo. They gave the 

Pueblo some sort of tests to survey manpower in that area. At the time, the understanding 
of the council was that when this survey was finalized in a week or so the Pueblo would be 
informed of the results. As far as I know, we've never heard from them. 

CHAIRMAN: Didn't the tribe do this survey work? 

SILVA: No. The employment office from Espanola did the survey. We've never re- 

ceived anything or heard from them. 

MAKELA: I might supplement Mr. Nielson's and Mr. Fryhling's remarks on plant 
opportunities for this summer. We have other canning companies interested in North and 
South Dakota Indians for in-plant work. We'll have competition in the Dakotas for Indian 

CHAIRMAN: Our meetings in Bismarck requested tribal leaders aid in identifying 
workers and assisting in recruitment. What's been the experience in working with the tribal 
leaders this past year? 

FRYHLING: Ours was very good. Two years ago, we began employing the tribal council 

and had them select individuals, do recruiting, and survey. They were able to get people 
we couldn't dream of getting. It worked out very well. 

NIELSON: We worked very closely with the tribe and hired extra Indian recruiters 

on the reservation, because communications -- there just aren't any! 

GEORGE: On our reservation, the Indian leased his land to farmers for many years. 

A few Indians have gone into farming themselves, but not many. The small farmer is out of 
the picture anyway. It's all "big" farming now. All the Indians are adapted to farming and 
know the farm business. In fact, they're hired by the farmers. But one thing is that some 

farmers pay more than others. Certain farmers will hire for just what they can get by with 
and not through Employment Service . 

It's not a big reservation. The farmer knows the man he's going to hire and hires him 
year after year because he likes him. Can anything be done to get a standard wage so every- 
one would get a good, fair wage? 

CHAIRMAN*. Many people get into this trap in going back to the same place every year. 
If you look around a bit, you may find better opportunities on the other side of the road. 

The only thing you can tell your people is that it's a competitive labor market and, before 
they accept employment, they should see the local Employment Office. It may be that a 
farmer doesn't know what's being paid and would meet this competitive rate, if necessary. 
FRYHLING: You asked about establishing a wage scale. That, of course, is one thing 

we can't do, but competition will take care of it. 

CHAIRMAN: Some people become satisfied with an employer -employee relationship 
developed over a number of years, and many will work for lower wages because of the re- 
lationship with the employer. We find this all over the country. 

BARETT: Don't you think it has to do with treatment, housing and fringe benefits? 

GEORGE: I have another subject. I think there's about 10 cents difference or maybe 

even more from Idaho to the Coast ports on the price of wheat. At one time, oCansas could 
ship wheat to our Coast at almost the identical price we ship ours. 

FRYHLING: We have a sugar beet plant across the river from Fargo. They can ship 

sugar from Iowa to Fargo for less cost than just hauling the stuff across the river! 

GEORGE: There's plenty of difference. We have a granary -- I live three miles from 

the state line -- and believe it or not, we take our wheat into Washington and get 1 cent a 
bushel more than in Idaho! 





YOUPEE: I heard mentioned several times that relocation hasn t worked out. I must 

return to my reservation and what am I going to take back? I'm taking in these panel discus- 
sions and I haven't got anything out of them! We have whole families unemployed. Someone 
called attention to the great deal of manpower on reservations. Why aren t they doing some 
thing about it? As far as these discussions are concerned, it looks like they'll stay unem- 
ployed! We're not gaining anything here, at least that I can see! I'd like to talk about other 
than my own family. I raised a large family of six boys and six girls. One graduated from 
engineering college last spring and he' s now in India with the Peace Corps . If you think we 

have problems, you should read what he writes! 

This unemployment is a real problem on the reservations. Our reservation is approxi 

m ately 100 miles by 50 miles. There's not enough land tor farming or ranching. We have 
about 80 farmer -ranchers who are members of the tribe. I'd say that if you include youngsters, 

we probably have 500 people unemployed. 

We had a pretty bad experience last year. We recruited young people and sent them to 
Idaho just across the line. They're starting to irrigate there. We sent these youngsters 
and only one stayedl They didn't last three weeks and it wasn't a very good situation. Our 

tribal council had to send some men to bring die last sue back. 

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Youpee, do you know how these young people were recruited? Was 

it through the tribal council? An order through Employment Service? Or did an employer 
just come in and hire them? 

YOUPEE: From the Bureau of Indian Affairs. The Bureau came to the tribal council 

and council members, in turn, got word to different members of the tribe. 

CHAIRMAN: I don't think you'll get much that is concrete from a session of this size, 


because we just can't be that specific. 



YOUPEE: In the panel discussion yesterday, I heard several people say we should 
forget about Indian culture. They are way out in left field when they say something like 
that! I, for one, think our culture is the only thing that identifies us as Indians. If we 
don't have that, then we're like anyone else. 

I feel that the only way unemployment will ever be whipped is through education 
and we must start with the 4 -year -old s . It's not going to be done overnight, in a week 
or in 10 years, but it must be done through education. 

BARETT: I was your area man in Billings and I know the Ft. Peck Reservation. 
They're fine people. They have a reservation and they want to stay. Who am J[to tell 
them to leave the reservation? On the other hand, I think life there is brutal. By your 
own statement, you confess you recognize the need for education, because without it, 
your kids wouldn't be where they are today. 

I've been preaching this doctrine ever since I've been with the Bureau and without 
being kicked out, too ! Our Indian people today, whether we like it or not, must go 
where the jobs are if they want to live or they can choose to stay where they are and 
live the way they are! It's that simple! I didn't make the rule! If you want to work 
in a saw mill, you go where the saw mill is! If you want to pick sugar beets, you go 
where the beets are, or you can stay on the reservation. Our young people are coming 
to that realization. Your own kids are doing it and all will do it because they have too 
much sense to waste their lives there! You don't want them to have life as hard as you 
had it ! 

You know; I made a mistake when I was a young man. I got the idea that if I had 
an education, I'd have an easy life and wouldn't have to work. Well, that's all I've been 





My point is that you do the things you like to do if you have dedication and want to 
do them! I think your statement's intent was honorable and I think you were honest. 

I would say that relocation certainly is not for some people . But on the other hand, 
people have been relocated and have made a marvelous success of their lives. But some 
people just don't belong! They never should have left in the first place and I think we 
made a mistake in moving them . Who are we to tell a person, "No, you shouldn't go? 
We might discourage a good man who might be a success! I've seen Indian children 
who for the first time in their lives are well dressed, getting enough to eat every day 
and are properly nourished. They're going to good schools and their future is 
assured, because their parents had the courage to make the change. 

On the other hand, we have people who are exceedingly unhappy off the 
reservation and, consequently, the thing for them to do is go back home! 

For seven years, I was in charge of a vocational high school in Alaska. Then I 
was transferred to New Mexico as head of the Shiprock Boarding School, a vocational - 
agricultural high school. I was exceedingly unhappy. I came from the mountains, 
streams and forests to an arid desert. I recall, as we came over the hill at Cortez, 
Colorado, the vast desert and Shiprock standing 800 feet in the air. I stopped, looked 
at my wife and said, "What are we doing here?" I was jo unhappy, I said to my wife, 

'1 want to go back to Alaska. I'm an Alaskan Indian. " She got disgusted and said, 

-For gosh sakes, go take a ’look-see’ . " I did and you know something? I wouldn't 
look back again! There is no turning back! Things aren't the way they were when you 
left them! People change, live, die and move away. 



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Life is kaleidoscopic and the picture changes! I’m sure you men have roots down, have 
friends, buddies, fraternal organizations, churches and things. We understand our Indian 
people who don’t want change! 

I’d be the last one to say, "You go there!" No, we offer opportunity and the only hope 
for our young Indian people is to take advantage of these things. It’s so very simple. If 
they’d only take advantage of the university training, vocational training, and do things they 
want to do to make them happiest. In the meantime, Todd Potter has a program for people 
who want to live the way they’re now living on the reservations. God bless them, they should 
be able to do that! I’m for them and I'll be the last man to tell them to leave! 

MRS. WILBUR: I want to state to this fellow from Montana --we have some good friends 
from Montana -- that tribal councils have a big responsibility. We shouldn't say we will 
leave here with nothing to take home. I certainly have a lot to take back to our folks. 

Things like Mr. Packard who will be in our county to consult with the Farm Labor Depart- 
ment which I have never seen there. I think that's one step for our people who like farming. 

MONTOIA: I thought Plains Indians were "way off" from the Pueblo Indians, but now 

I know they have the same problems as the Pueblos. This gentleman said, "If the Indian 
wants to live on the reservation, let him live on the reservation." When I speak of improve- 
ment and better ways of living, I say we must face the tasks of progress. I want this young 
generation to get a better education. We were born and raised here. This is our country. 

The white man, the Spanish, came and they claim us, but I say to my people that we ruin 
our young generation. We ruin our youngsters if they don't study our Indian problems and 
the white man’s problems. 

JAYNE: I worked with the Bureau of Indian Affairs in Arizona, a number of years ago, 

I was with the Employment Service. We were asked to get young men for farm work 
near Casa Grande. We went to the White River Reservation high school, got 30 boys, and 


put them on an approved farm. They had good quarters . Once a man brought some 

liquor to the farm and a few boys drank, but the farmer caught the man and turned him 
over to the authorities. These young boys had been told at home that farming had a 
lot of dignity and good hard work. They worked with Braceros who tried to outwork 

them, but couldn't do it. 

At home, we tell young people how to act and to work hard. I'll bet all 30 of those 
boys are doing well today because they learned how to work. 

You talk about losing our culture. The Jewish people are spread all over the 
world but no group has better held its culture. When you leave home, you don’t ha™ 
to lose your culture, you can take it with you! They say in 700 years, the United 
States will have a culture. I want part of the Indian culture in my children’s lives and 
I want the best of Indian culture in my grandchildren. We are Americans! 

SILVA: We would like our unemployed people to make a decent living. Some 
Indians want to live on the reservation while working outside, but they can t often meet 
the competition of the outside world. They get ’’low" and degrade themselves with 
alcohol. People see a drunk Indian on the street and say, "All Indians are that way, " 

but it isn't so! 

CHAIRMAN: There isn't much we can do about the morals of any group but we can 
guarantee that recruitment will not be substandard. 


YOUPEE: I better say something about this business of families that don’t want to 
off the reservation and about letting them rot. If we weren't independent we wouldn't 

be at these conferences . I don’t quite agree with that . 

HORSEMAN: When this gentleman talks about staying on the reservations and rotting, 

I disagree with him 100 percent. Reservations aren’t too bad a place if you bring something 
to them and that's what we’re trying to do. With a 3000 enrollment, we have slightly under 

1500 who live on the reservation. The rest have moved off. We have a reservation 40 
miles by 25 miles plus an additional 75, 000 acres that we acquired. We have land and 
facilities for about 50 families, I imagine, if we set them up in agriculture. 

We get along very well with BIA, but our comrtlunications with the State 
are breaking down. We're trying to set up a farm machinery school because 
farmers are calling for workers to service machinery in the field. It's 80 to 
90 miles to the nearest town where they can fix this high price machinery, 
so they're asking the tribal council to come up with skilled workers. Skilled 
labor in farming sounds funny but they're calling for it! 

We just made a survey. We have 318 workers in our labor force and 50 percent 
are relatively young, 45 or less. So we've got a labor force, even though half our 
reservation went out into the world. We still like our reservation even with its 
mosquitoes and everything! 

We'd like to invite Mr. Packard to our reservation to see if he could help us. We 
desperately need help. We're holding some money to bring in industry but we just 
can't seem to do it. We thought we had one, but even though we threw out some good 
"tax -dodge" bait we couldn't get the industry. 

BARETT: I want to apologize to some of these gentlemen, if they took my statement 
to mean it was my wish this would happen. You're my people and we're all Indians! 

LEONARD: In Oklahoma we have some 67 tribes without reservations . I've spent 
the last 30 years communicating with Washington and they still write us and ask where 
the reservations are! We have about 64,000 Indians. We have very active Indian 
participation in Oklahoma . The first several governors were either Indians or their 




We're not going to render much service to Indians nationally, if the Bureau 
continues to insist that all resources be spent in metropolitan areas. 

No one will dispute the desirability of young Indians leaving reservations if they 
wish to. This is good. 

However, the Great White Father should recognize there are people wh o prefer 
to live on the reservation and services must be taken to them! 

■ m sjhss* m s CT*aoES5H»snB»! ji*ps ss i sasrasuBsrae sjws hstos j * , '.' r, — hpb i ..' i ulu jlljj 4- i^u 

!-Ll ,!UVA. 


No one will dispute the desirability ol young Indians leaving reservations if they wish 
to. This is good. 

However, the Great White Father should recognize there are people who preter to live 
on the reservation and services must be taken to them! 

Excerpted From: 



c $*/ 



Chairman John Ekeberg 

Regional Director 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 
Kansas City, Missouri 

Recorder Ed Ridgeway 


South Dakota State Employment Service 


George Schmidt 

Chief, Branch of Industrial Development 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Washington, D. C. 

Report on the Gila River Reservation Project 
Presented by: Z. Simpson Cox 
Tribal Attorney, Phoenix, Arizona 

Other Participants 


Russell Benedict 

Arnold Cox 

Staff Assistant 

Rincon Band, San Luiseno Mission Indians 
Poway, California 

NYC Representative of Oglala Sioux Tribe 
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 

Erin Forrest Business Manager, X L Indian Reservation 

President, California Inter-Tribal Council, and 
Chairman of Governor’s Interstate Indian Council 
Alturas, California 

Roger Jourdain Chairman, Red Lake Tribal Council 

Red Lake, Minnesota 

Col . Alvin A . Katt Representative, Manpower & Development 

Community Action Program 
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 

Mrs. Florence L. Kinley Lummi Indian Tribe 

Marietta, Washington 

Dwaine M . LeBeau Director 

Community Action Program 
Rosebud, South Dakota 

I -UP.-, 

ii i .Li, .. IM.U- iwin i.ui. 




Excerpted From 

Panel No. 9 -A (continued) 

Other Participants 

Edward Olivas 

Ross Reese 

Henry N. Rodriguez 

Max R. Salazar 

Robert Treuer 


Santa Ynez Reservation 
Van Nuys, California 

Office of Operations 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 
Washington, D. C. 

Indian Community Action Project 

Luiseno Tribe 

Pauma Valley, California 

Deputy Director 

Employment Security Commission of New Mexico 
Albuquerque, New Mexico 

CAP Director, Red Lake CAP 
Red Lake, Minnesota 

Mel Walker 


Community Action Program 
Three Affiliated Tribes 
Mandaree, North Dakota 



CHAIRMAN: I think we'll get this show on the road. Our speaker is Mr. George 

Schmidt, Chief of Industrial Development, BIA. 

SCHMIDT: I want to bring to your attention the things other tribes are doing in the 

general area of planning for reservation development. 

Certainly, planning is not new to tribal councils and leaders. Neither is it new to 
government, because I find memorandums of 10, 20 and 30 years ago stating that we need 
to start planning. I thought the tribes would be more interested in getting some plans on the 

First of all, I think tribes need to identify needs. It's too easy to just say you have 
unemployment, you have social problems or you have educational problems. We need to 
be quite specific. For a long time, we had tribes talking about industry sites by saying, 

"We own 10, 000 acres of land; take your pick." It didn't take long for them to recognize that 
they had to talk about a specific piece of land. Here is a preliminary program for develop- 
ment of reservations, the type of tiling I referred to, and I quote: 

"Over 150 members are participating in the Rehabilitation Cattle Program, 
approximately 90 members are participating in the Repayment- in- Kind Cattle 
Program, while approximately 50 members are independent operators. 

"Statistical studies indicate that a minimum economic livestock unit today 
involves approximately 150 productive cows. Many small operators will experi- 
ence real difficulty unless they expand and correct areas of inefficiency, such as 
poor calf crops, inadequate feeding practices, general husbandry and inadequate 
records of income and expenses . " 

This tribal group was identifying a need. They have identified other needs in their 

document* too . 

1 ! 


Then we need to establish objectives. On this particular program, the tribe made 
the above recommendations and then set forth future rangeland uses and programs in fenc- 
ing, stock water development, supplemental forage production and development of manage- 
ment skills. So they not only identified needs, but established objectives. 

Another tribal group undertaking a comprehensive development program is at Lower 
Brule, South Dakota. They state their program in a document which identifies needs, states 
where they want to go and how they'll get there, the amount of money it will take and justifi- 
cation for that money . 

1 have illustrated with tribal programs the first two points I wanted to make; the identi- 
fication of need and establishing objectives. Third, it is important that we also have a time- 
phased program to achieve the objectives. 

An illustration of this time-phasing is in a Seminole document on their program. They 
propose getting involved in the citrus industry. They indicate the first year expenses, the 
2nd, 3rd and 4th year maintenance costs, the 6th year expenses, 7th through 10th year and 
so on. They point out that capital investment is fully recovered by the end of the 14th year 
barring serious setbacks. So this tribe has injected a program with a 14-year time period. 

I would like to add three cautions to the three points I think necessary in planning a 

reservation development program. 

First of all, the program must be locally conceived and tailormade to needs of people 
and responsive to aspirations of the group. Sometimes tribal councils are not as close to 
the people as they might be when they undertake planning. We need to be sure that groups 
affected have an opportunity to participate and that the program finally developed is re- 
sponsive to their needs and within capabilities and resources available to them. 

Secondly, we can't undertake a development program that is based only on resources 
or only on human development. It must have balanced use of natural resources and develop- 

ment of human resources. 


Third and finally, tribes should provide for the continuity of a planning program by 

including flexibility and built-in preservation. 

From time to time when I've called on tribal groups and asked them about planning, 
they say, "yes, we have a plan around here someplace." They go back to some file or the 
bottom of a bookcase, find one of these documents and maybe it’s 10 years old! It’s not a 
vital document. It is not alive! We find that maybe the reason it isn't alive is that some 
part of it was not popular and wasn’t easy to change. Regardless of who the tribal chairman 
is or the make-up of the tribal council, the program should "go" with whatever people happen 

to sit as governing body of the tribe. 

If we identify needs of reservation programs, establish our objectives, adopt a time 
phase program to reach these objectives, bear in mind it's not purely resource or human 
oriented, is conceived locally and will be a continuing effort, that much more progress can 
be made on the reservations. 

Z. S. COX: The problems of the Gila River Reservation are rooted in the past, just like 
yours. The Pima Indians until 1867 were probably the wealthiest Indian group in the United 
States. They were certainly the wealthiest people of all races west of the Mississippi 


The tribe farmed fertile valleys of the Gila and Salt Rivers for over 2000 years! In 
1867, the White Mountain Indians found higher ground with a beautiful stream running 
through it and they took the water. As a result, the Pima Indians entered the time in their 

history that is called, "The period of 40-year famine. 

When the gold miners went to California in 1848, they stopped to fill their wagons at 
Pima villages. When Colonel Johnson came through in the Mexican War the Pimas fed the 
army. They saved the Mormons from complete starvation. If it hadn't been for the Pimas 
the white man wouldn’t have gotten west, because only the Pimas protected the white man 

from the Apaches. 

Probably the greatest military feat was when 125 Pimas kept two battalions tied up 
for 10 years and only lost 8 or 10 men. It's not like you see on TV, but that's the story. 

In 1926, there was authorization for the Coolidge Dam to bring water to the Pimas. 

But, because of the inclusion of white man's lands in this project, very few people realized 
that access to the dam was to be built for the Pimas. It says that if the Secretary of the 
Interior finds there's a surplus, the surplus can be used upon such public and private lands 
as he may deem advisable. 

The Great White Father in his wisdom allotted lands to the Pimas in 10-acre plots, 
because it was known the best farmers in the world were Pimas. The University of 
Oklahoma says it takes 120 acres of land to support a family. The Pimas had only 10 acres 
to support their family. Even if they'd had enough water, they were doomed to poverty. 
They get to irrigate 2 or 3 acres of their 10! Our great Anglo "inheritance" leaves only a 
fraction of their need. 

We have people who've been in abject poverty for a long time. The once wealthy, agri- 
cultural Pimas have been in a state of poverty for almost 100 years. They live in poor 
housing, they have inadequate diets and they have the highest incidence of diabetes of any 
group of people in the world! They have littie education and very poor sanitation. But they 
are no longer content to accept poverty as their lot! 

Last April, after months of community meetings on the reservation, there came "VII 
THAW HUP EA JE, " which means, "It will happen. It must happen." Governor Allison 
and his advisory board came to my office to talk about VII THAW HUP EA JE. It takes 3 

hours to cover VH THAW HUP EA JE . 

This (indicating) is not an Indian suit made in Washington that won t fit! A hundred years 
ago, Washington thought every Indian needed to wear a business suit. "I wear size 42, " 
someone said, "so I want 100, 000 suits, size 42! Every male Indian; fat, tail, thin - all 

must wear a size 42 suit! " This (indicating) is a suit tailored by Indian people to fit each 

Indian on the reservation and that's one reason this program, "Will happen. It must 
happen! " 

It's not a 10-year program. It's an 18-month program! They've been on this program 
now for seven months and they should change the name! I don't know Pima for "What is 
happening, " but that's what it should be called today, because it is happening! It is not 
VH THAW HUP EA JE; it is not, 'It must happen, " because it is happening! 

The program has overall planning for development. The reason it's a broad, overall 
program is that it came from the Indian people, all the Indian people! It didn't come from 
the tribal chairman, the tribal council or the superintendent. It sure didn't come from me! 

I could show you an organization chart; you can't have a bureau without an organiza- 
tion chart. Every city, county and agency has an organization chart. On our organization 
chart, Indians head up the program . The tribal council, advisory board, various 
committees, social groups, Community Action, Economic Development, various things 
under the Bureau of Indian Affairs are all included along with OEO, the University of 
Arizona, the mayor and city council of Chandler and all the others . This is a cooperative 
program where everything issued is a resource for the Indians. 

The Indians on the Gila River Reservation tell the superintendent he's their boy and 
he's working for and with them. The same with other agencies. We should quit kicking 
the Bureau, because we think they're kicking us, and say, "Look; we're all working 
toward the same goal, so let's talk it over." They all want the same results, but they're 
like a 20 -horse hitch; not like a team pulling together and all running in different 
directions. They can't pull the wagon down the road and this has been like putting all 
those horses in one harness to work together with the Indians. 


irr . 


This program, VH THAW HUP EA JE, ends December 31st. What’s going to happen? 

In 18 months they will have doubled the average per capita or average family income! 

They will have raised the educational attainment on that reservation. They will have 
doubled the number who have minimum standard adequate housing. There are 50 parts 
to the program and all 50 of them are moving except legal services from OEO. Many 
have been completed . 

They said we’ll get a major industry. Allis -Chalmers came and has employed a 
small group. I was told yesterday they expect to send one man to college, because they 
want to put him in an executive office in the future. He's been operating big equipment. 

The Indians aren’t naive. They don't feel that, because we'll have 445 new jobs on 
that reservation by December 31st, 57 percent of those jobs should be initially filled by 
Indians! We don’t think that because there’s a job opening an alcoholic can stumble in and 
get work, because we know he can't! They can't put a man to work who has diabetes so 
bad it would violate all health rules! 

Chandler has a corporation board made up of half tribal council and half Chandler 
City Council. That's the Board of Economic Development Directors for all of Chandler 
and the adjacent Indian reservation. The Indians have told Chandler, "Quit trying to put 
people in town. The best thing you can do to put money in your pocket is pick up the 
economy of the reservation. If we get off the relief rolls, your tax load will be less. 

People who have good jobs, not poor jobs, spend their money with your merchants. You 
get a better tax base and everything is better . " The City of Chandler will be at the hearing 
this month to tell the Arizona Senator, "You’re hurting us when you hurt the Indians. 

The best way to help our economy is to help their economy! This is a team effort. " 

In addition to developing these hundreds of jobs, we must train people. They must 
also train themselves in mind, body and spirit. The main one is spirit, because, without 
spirit, you won’t put your nose to the grindstone and train the mind and body. 

I emphasize again that it’s a teamwork proposition. If any of you on our team haven t 
felt just real "good, ” down deep, then get with it because the Pimas are going to improve 


their economy and social standing with community development. VH THAW HUP EA JE: 

"It will happen. It must happen! " Don't look to the agency for a program. Go to your 
own people and get a program . Then ask the help of your agency. Don t fight your 
agency; ask for their help! 

TREUER: While we don't have quite the name VH THAW HUP EA JE for what we're 
trying to do, we think the spirit and principle are the same. It's good to hear that even 
though we're far apart geographically, we're close together in what we re trying to do 
and how we're going about it. 

My question, specifically, has to do with Nelson amendment projects which are now 
in the Department of Labor. This is an important part of our overall program, because 
it means a chance for rehabilitation and training for all our workers, people 45 and over, 
who may not have succeeded before in the labor market. Some of our reservations have 
availed themselves of Nelson amendment projects with very good results. We'd like to 
know what machinery is being set up by Labor for the handling of Nelson projects? 

CHAIRMAN: Contrary to what you just said, the Nelson amendment is not yet in 
the Department of Labor. It's retained within OEO. 

Z. S. COX: Before going on let me say that no one is more stupid than an attorney 
or more stupid than this attorney! Tell me what the Scheuer - Nelson amendment is. Is 
it Community Action programs? 

CHAIRMAN: The Nelson - Scheuer items are amendments to the Equal Employment 
Opportunity Act. The Nelson amendment, I should guess, is of more interest to the 
tribal council than Scheuer. They represent Manpower Programs for work experience for 
other than youth. Let's put it this way, they're set up to give work experience and employ- 
ment training to -- what shall I say, the post-youthful employed? -- 22 and over. 




REESE: The Labor Department and OEO are negotiating takeover of the Nelson - 

Scheuer amendments right now. We're very close to final agreement. Those who may have 
Nelson projects, meanwhile, I'm sure will have funds for whatever period they contracted 


I would say that, within a month, we'll have guidelines on how to proceed as the Labor 
Department looks at these programs. Specifically, guidelines will be coming out shortly 
as to state plans, how much money is available for your community and how much you can 
expect next year. Those who have programs can probably rest easy in that you'll have some 
priority next year. 

TREUER: While it's comforting that there will be priority for those who have programs, 

this leaves the majority of reservations out of the picture because they don't yet have Nelson 
amendment programs. 

There are seven reservations in Minnesota with Community Action programs, two with 
Nelson amendment programs, and others are knocking at the door. Applications are in for 
most of the others, in addition to the two who want refunding. So, your words gave some 
conflict in our case to two out of seven. Also, I'm not clear on who and how: who will 
administer this, in Labor, and how? 

REESE: Well, Neighborhood Youth Corps will be extended under another name, the 

Bureau of Work Programs which will administer NYC and Nelson - Scheuer amendments. 

You’ll learn from your OEO source who will pick up the program and, as in all federal 
programs, that office will have just so much money. Which program will be funded is the 

eternal question. How much money is available? 

Z. S. COX: To those fine people employed by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, or anyone 

else who’s for American Indians, I beg of you to do two things. One, be willing to say no 

and tell them why it’s "no" just as soon as it’s "no!" If you know you don't have enough funds, 



then do what you will with your funding and give your money to those you know are going 
to get it! Tell the others there's no more money. Don't say, "You have a wonderful 
program; we’re going to try, " then pull the rug from under these people. Please be 
willing to say "no! " 

Also, can't you cut the time required for Indian programs, cut the red tape and 
delegate authority and responsibility for a decision? 

I ask this on behalf of all, because they keep hoping and are excited about doing 
this thing. They get all worked up when they're told, "Yes, yours fits, " and they're 
led on and on, until they're too weak to crawl away. 

REESE: To defend the bureaucrat for one moment, we work by a budget from 
Congress. I'd love to be able to tell someone we have it or we don't have it, but 
sometimes we don't know! There's planning that must precede any program! You 
have to fight for your program ! 

Z. S. COX: I recognize that, but once you get the money, commit it to good pro- 
grams and it'll save everyone. 

REESE: I wish we could. We'll do our best. 

CHAIRMAN: What shall we do E Mr. Cox, about a tribal council which proposes a 
Neighborhood Youth program last July, and to whom we said "O.K., there s money from 
State allocations and it's yours." As of yesterday, February 15th, I ve not received the 
program! Should I continue to deny the right of someone else in that State to take a 

crack at it? 




Z s. COX: No, sir, I believe you reached a point -- maybe yesterday -- when that 

particular tribe should be cut off and another can be told their program is approved. 

FORREST: Mr. Schmidt, does your office have branches in each of the area offices? 

SCHMIDT: Yes, it does. 

FORREST: In California, too? 

SCHMIDT: Excuse me, in California we do not have! 

FORREST: Why not? 

SCHMIDT: That’s a good question that’s never been raised before so far as I know. 

Indian people are fairly well dispersed. I recognize there’s a large group in Los Angeles. 

Our particular assignment is attracting companies to reservations where we anticipate a 
substantial pool of unemployed people and, to my knowledge, there hasn’t been a large 
group of unemployed people in particular locations of California. 

FORREST: I think we need some investigating, because we do have large numbers of 

unemployed in California! Since California has the heavie t industrial growth of any state, 
it seems kind of odd that the Bureau of Indian Affairs shouldn’t consider Indian development 
on those reservations. Is there any possibility you can set up a branch office m California in 

the very near future? 

SCHMIDT: I'd certainly be glad to discuss it with the Commissioner. 

BENEDICT: I’m from Poway, California. I’m writing the Scheuer program for non- 

Indians. I’m extremely excited about the possibilities and would therefore disagreee with 
the Chairman. It seems to me, Scheuer programs have the greatest promise for Indian re- 
servations in that whole sectors of people are so absolutely lacking in vocational training. 
Many Indians are not college bound due to regrettable discrimination by many school systems. 
They look at Indians, see their color, and stick them in with many minority people in non- 


vocational schools. Indians find themselves out of high school and not suited to go on. The 
Scheuer amendment gives a greatly motivated person a chance to make a career approach 
to professionalism. I think it's what people in this country need more than any other single 

I would respectfully ask the Chairman and those here from the Labor Department to level 
with these people. It is not true, gentlemen, that there's a list on Scheuer or that a list 
exists! The chances of any Scheuer programs going to all, except perhaps the very largest 
reservations, are extremely slight. It's a large demonstration program and in my view, 
with respect to money, it's capricious to raise the hopes of small reservations that they might 
get a Scheuer program this year. I would beg you to tell these tribal chairmen there isn't a 
chance in 1967 of a Scheuer grant. There's a limit of $500, 000 on Scheuer grants. This 
eliminates smaller reservations which can't even consider a Manpower program of that size. 

1 repeat what Mr. Cox said that you please level on this so we don't spin our wheels and get 
even more disillusioned than we've been in the past. 

That is my chief reason for speaking. The other is to ask if I understood correctly that 
it's the hope of Nelson - Scheuer people to upgrade the Nelson programs toward the Scheuer 
philosophy of real jobs with continuing features, instead of "green thumb" jobs? 

CHAIRMAN: The Nelson - Scheuer program has been conducted by the Office of Equal 
Opportunity. We don't have a list such as you indicated, although I believe there's been liaison 
with the respective Washington offices of Labor and OEO. I do know that the Nelson - Scheuer 
appropriation for 1967 is $79-million. I understand that Nelson - Scheuer operates on a 
rather rigid state allocation basis, somewhat differently than Youth Corps. 

TREUER: Isn't it all mortgaged now? 

CHAIRMAN: I don't know. Do you mean state by state? 

TREUER: I understand all Nelson money except a very small amount is already committed 

in an agreement with OEO and that there's no new money. 

T ; 


' -’-Tl’.' ,..i LiL'V LU-JJLLLI .J 1 • !'IR'^'~ 


CHAIRMAN: That could be, for all I know! 

FORREST: Mr. Schmidt, you spoke of meeting with the head of your department to 

talk about a branch office in California. Do you think there could be a more concrete date 
for that? 

SCHMIDT: I should explain that we have an Industrial Development Office in Los Angele 

California. We also have Employment Assistance in Los Angeles. We don't have authoriza- 
tion for additional positions, but we'd be glad to take it under consideration after hearing 
your story. As I said, this is the first time anybody from California has ever expressed 
interest in the service. 

OLIVAS: I don't think we, from California, have much chance to meet with the Com- 

missioner in Washington. We'd certainly like to ask you to arrange a meeting with him 
today. We're interested in industrial development in California and have been for a long 

SCHMIDT: I'd be happy to arrange such a meeting if you'll tell me where I can get in 

touch with you, so we can decide on a time . 

FORREST: Just send up your smoke signal! 

RODRIQUEZ: We had Mr. Zachary of the L.A, office for a whole week to expose tribal 

leaders to the types of programs available to them .We can only advise and inform them of 
what's available. That's as far as we can go. We can't tell them what to do or how to do it, 


but if they express desire to be helped, we give them technical assistance under OEO. Some 
of these people have been exposed and it's up to them to get out of their little shell and go 
ahead with these things. 

ARNOLD COX: A concerted effort should be made by all of us to supplement funds, if 

necessary, to see that this type of program goes into effect, because I think there's much 
interest in it. Many people, particularly older Indians, are vitally concerned about economic 

benefits in a training program. Possibly we should go on record indicating great interest 
in this particular program. 

TREUER: With all due respect, our information is somewhat similar to Attorney 

Benedict's information. We're now 7 months into the fiscal year, nearing the 8th month, 
and we’re talking about a package of over $90-million. We've been given to understand, and 
have been in close touch with OEO people, that their share of Nelson money is the same as 

last year and that the balance will go into Labor. 

We, and many other reservations, spoke with Mr. Battle and Mr. Howard two months 
ago. At that time, the vehicle of transfer for these funds, a letter of agreement between 

OEO and Labor, was about to be consummated. 

Two months is a lengthy consummation! With time running out, and increasing word 
about mortgaging of these monies before the lines of disbursement are even cleared up, it 
would behoove everyone to get as prompt a clarification as possible in all fairness. Other- 
wise, we'll be confronted with llth-hour funding at fiscal year end to obligate funds with 
minimum tribal involvement which we strongly believe the tribe is entitled to. We cannot 
impress this too strongly! 

CHAIRMAN: I can only endorse your statement. I have no more interest in llth-hour 

funding than anyone else, believe me! 

MRS. KINLEY: I didn't hear anything about development concerning resources. Did 

you leave out resource development, and if you did, why? 

MR. SCHMIDT: No, the subject was planning reservation development. I said we must 

consider human development as well as resource development and we couldn't concentrate 
on only one. We should make it total reservation development and not try to separate it into 
land, water or cattle and leave out the people. 


WALKER; Many requested that Nelson monies be administered through the Indian 
desk. Has a decision been made? Will the money be continued? Will they go to Department 
of Labor and, if they do, will tribes have any kind of voice in how this money is handled? 

CHAIRMAN: I don't know the answer, but I can tell you what I ve heard. One of the 

points of nonagreement between the OEO committee and the group from Labor goes to this 
very point. The Labor Department takes the position that the Nelson Amendment programs, 
like NYC programs, should be handled through respective regional offices. jEO has tak 
the position that it would be better for Labor to get up some kind of counterpart of the pre- 
sent OEO Indian Affairs desk. Now, that’s rumor! For your information, I believe there s 
another unresolved aspect in the nature of the funding. It's handled by a cost reimbursement 
contract and not through a grant, which is characteristic of all OEO funding including the 

Nelson programs. These are somewhat technical matters. 

KATT: I'd like to make a resolution, if it's in order, that we go on record as a panel 

for fortification of die Nelson Amendment for Indian programs and that the panel wishes to 
express the urgency of securing adequate funds to meet needs of die reservations. We feel 

the Nelson Amendment will be a wonderful job-training program. 

I come from a tribe, but I'm representing CAP, actually, so it might be wise to have 

this motion made by an Indian delegate. I withdraw in favor of someone else. 

CHAIRMAN; The resolution will be attributed to Mr. Forrest by his assent. Do we 

need discussion? 

OLIVAS; Just a point of information for the delegates. The subject of die resolution is 
that die Labor Department be requested to establish prompt funding procedures for Nelson 

funds . 

JOURDAIN: Red Lake will second the motion. 

CHAIRMAN: Is there further discussion? 






Z. S. COX: A point of information, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to ask the Indian people 
here if they feel they fully understand what's been presented. Could I see a show of hands, 
please? If you understand what this resolution is about, raise your hand! 

I have five . 

Of those representing reservations, how many feel they don't fully understand this 
motion? A show of hands, please? 

I make this a point because in Las Vegas, Chicago and Washington, newspapers 
report that Indians have passed this, that and the other. I'm sure this is good even 
though I don't understand and couldn't vote. At meetings like this, I think it's an error 
to have an action resolution by the group. 

CHAIRMAN: There were several hands indicating some lack of understanding . . . 

KATT. Yes, sir. People in positions that require distribution of money are faced 
many times with more than one request for limited funds. 

So anything we can do to help get things moving in Washington is the purpose of this 
resolution. A little action is what we're trying to get to help us get things moving on 
a reservation level. 

LE BEAU: Mr. LeBeau from Rosebud. If we can be of assistance, we want to 
know so negotiations can get started . 

SALAZAR: For clarification I suggest the resolution, as drafted, be read prior 
to voting. 

CHAIRMAN: Very good. If there's no other question, I think we can vote . 

Those in favor, please raise your hands! 

Those opposed! 

The motion, 

having been duly made and seconded, was carried . 

Excerpted From: 







William R. Carmack 

Assistant Commissioner, Community Services 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Washington, D.C. 

Merle S. Kinvig 

Employment Service Director 
State Office Operations 
Minnesota State Employment Service 
Minneapolis, Minnesota 

Vine Deloria 

Executive Director 

National Congress of American Indians 
Denver, Colorado 

Report on the Fort Apache Development Corporation 
Presented by: Ronnie Lupe, Chairman 
Fort Apache Tribal Council, Arizona 

Report on the Laguna Pueblo Development Program 
Presented by: Clarence Acoya, Executive Director, 
Commission on Indians, New Mexico 

Other Participants 

Herman E . Cameron 

Frank Ducheneaux 

Oswald C. George 

W. E. McIntosh 

Byron Mallott 
Earl Boyd Pierce 

Chairman, Bay Mills Indian Community 
State Commission on Indian Affairs 
Brimley, Michigan 


Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe 
Eagle Butte, South Dakota 

Tribal Vice Chairman 
Coeur d’Alene Tribe 
Plummer, Idaho 

Principal Chief, Jreek Nation 
Tulsa, Oklahoma 

Representative at Large 
Council of Five Chiefs - Yakutal 
Juneau, Alaska 

Cherokee Nation 
Muskogee, Oklahoma 


- i'v 1 y\ v-w: r~r.* 


Excerpted From: 

PANEL NO. 9 -B (Continued) 

Other Participants (Continued) 

Jerry Rambler 
David W. Stevens 

Councilman, San Carlos Apache Tribe 
San Carlos, Arizona 

Pennsylvania State University 
University Park, Pennsylvania 


1 math— numrfffor 





DELORIA: We have found that Indians need a limited amount of housing. For the 
most part their educational needs outside the scholarship area are generally worked in 
with county and State school systems. These are ideal places to begin adult education 
and other programs to develop an indian community. You can't talk about tribes as 
all alike when you’re talking about 100, 000 people on one hand and 500 on the other. 

We should look at the small tribe as a development project and then get some muscle 
to solve problems. 

Larger tribes have their programs and yet, too often, the government tries to 
force a larger tribe into a pattern that fits a city, State or municipality. We must 

| set up definitions . 

We must keep in touch with our Congressmen to point out the need for increased 
appropriations. We must keep OEO programs funded for reservations. It's time 
everyone lived up to their promises. 

; Too often we come to these meetings, and, because our tribes are different, 

we feel we have nothing in common. We should sit down and work on these programs 
together . 


CHAIRMAN: Now a report on the Apache Development Corporation. 

LUPE: It's always a pleasure to talk with those genuinely interested in the needs and 

| welfare of the American Indian. 

I The paramount task immediately before us is to provide Indians an opportunity for 

! full employment. I’d like to paint two pictures for you: one of progress made and hope 


for the future; the other, of a great number of depressed, unemployed people, still cold 

* and hungry, seeking a chance to become employed. 



| I’m proud to say the Apache tribe has made progress in attaining a higher standard 

of living. Much of this progress has been gained in the last nine years. 



Our reservation is blessed with a bounty of natural resources including valuable timber, 
vast expanses of grazing land, some minerals and water. Nine years ago, the tribe em- 
barked on an ambitious program to develop its recreational resources, primarily to create 
employment opportunities for tribal members. With profits from sale of timber, hundreds 
of camp grounds were constructed; lakes were impounded; motels, service stations and 
stores were built; homesite areas and resort complexes were developed, and fish manage- 
ment programs we re initiated. The success of this venture lias been recognized throughout 
the nation and similar recreational programs are being adopted by a number of tribes. 

But, more importantly, it has paid its own way and provided employment opportunities 
for 60 to 100 Apaches each year. It grosses more than $l-million yearly and makes a re- 
spectable net profit. 

A $2 -million loan from the Federal Government to construct a saw-planing mill proved 
to be an important shot in the arm. Annual sales of more than $2. 25-million in timber pro- 
ducts have made possible employment of 140 members of the tribe and a payroll of some 
$650, 000 per year. It has proven that tribes can operate successful business ventures. 

Individual Indian cattle owners assume more operation responsibilities each year. Tribal 
enterprise provides employment for 8 to 12 Indians and shows a net annual profit of about 
$40, 000. 

Through a revolving loan program, tribal members have made some progress in con- 
struction of modern homes. About 60 families have been moved from shacks to new homes in 
the past 5 year$. With cooperation of Public Health Service, water and sewer facilities 
have been provided for five of our smaller communities. In addition, medical and hospital 
facilities have been expanded. Most of our young people now have opportunity to attend 
good schools located on the reservation and adequate grants and scholarships provided by 
the tribe and Bureau of Indian Affairs are available for those seeking a college education. 


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J J.LU 1 .JJ ' J P J JBJ-'-U " 


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But the other side must be shown, because a large segment of our people cannot be 
overlooked. Arizona State Employment Service has endeavored to assist us by establishing 
a branch office at Ft. Apache. In spite of employment increase through expansion of tribal 
enterprises, 65 percent of our employables are out of work. Some 35 percent cannot even find 
jobs during the summer. Average family income is still about $1100 per year, approximately 
one-fifth the national average. 

We've been unable to secure FHA and VA housing loans and still have more than 800 
families living in substandard housing. We’re informed that revolving loan funds are ex- 
hausted and expansion of tribal enterprises has come to a virtual standstill due to lack of 
investment capital. 

When the loan was secured for the sawmill, the government took an assignment of all 
present and future income as security! This, of course, has made it practically impossible 
to obtain investment funds from private sources. 

j Because of the language barrier, Head Start programs must be implemented and our 

facilities must be expanded to provide general education and vocational training. Housing, 

i health and sanitation needs must be improved so available workers can get to jobsites. 


These problems cannot be separated from the problem of unemployment. Unless invest- 
ment capital is found to expand our industries, we'll still have 35 to 60 percent of our people 

| unemployed. 


| ACOYA: The Laguna Pueblo with a population of approximately 2500 is located about 


45 miles west of Albuquerque. We have a membership of about 5000. We have about 410, 000 
acres . 

j In any development, it's very essential there be a partnership between the government, 

the state and your tribe. 


!• _! 


■ .1 1 IU. 158HP 



Most of you have heard that Laguna owns one of the largest uranium mines in the United 
States. Actual production of uranium involved something like 12, 000 acres. 

In provisions for employment, Anaconda Company and the Pueblo agreed that Pueblos 
be given preference to job opportunities and, at the peak of production, approximately 365 
of our people were involved . It was not unusual for operators of heavy equipment to earn 
as much as $700 a month. This brought in approximately $2-million in income to the 

The company initiated a program to train our people as operators of heavy equipment. 

It gave the people a tremendous boost. Should the uranium industry dwindle they could go 
outside the Pueblo to find jobs and this is exactly what they've done. 

I think this gave people their first actual taste of advantages. Not only did they indi- 
vidually see possibilities, but it meant something to the tribe. The Pueblo invested some- 
thing like $14-million. 

The Pueblo investment program budget is around $500, 000 and we're a corporation, but 
at the same time, we still have our traditions, customs and so forth. 

There's also development of human resources through private industry. All of us are 
becoming more aware that industry is interested in us, but we should have more mutual 
feeling for each other. The tribes need to show initiative. I think one thing's important 
when you deal with industry, is to make sure your local townspeople become involved. At 
the time we were dealing with Anaconda, we got the local townspeople involved and all our 
people! We asked if this was what they really wanted. Some of us felt the corporation should 
put up at least 50 percent of the costs, but it turned out that we put up the entire amount to 
get the industry. 

We were asked, and agreed, to put up a building. We have a 40, 000 square foot building 

that cost the Pueblo $455, 000 and we gave the corporation a loan of $485, 000 for equipment 
and costs. The corporation pays it back with six percent interest. 


The training program initially involved 40 people. Aptitude testing was done by New 
Mexico State Employment, training came from the Alberquerque Vocational Institute under 
the New Mexico Vocational Education Department and the whole thing was paid for by the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs. 

They have no Indian college graduates at the plant, but people with training have been 
placed in executive positions. We have 4 of our people out of 12 serving in that capacity 
now so we're gradually getting involved. We want to get involved in management. Today, 

the Neutronics Plant is employing 150 of our people. 

I think the government and the Slate of New Mexico have benefited greatly. These 
people have paid corporate and income taxes of $125, 000! You can see that this isn t a 
program we might call a "handout" to Indians! It s a self-help program in which the govern 
ment, the state and all people involved benefit. It's necessary that we show initiative. 
Advertise in the Wall Street Journal if you have to! We don't want to be out on a limb with 
a corporation that goes broke and sticks you with a big building or something of this sort. 

CHAIRMAN: I'm interested, Clarence, in your point that if the development is to be 

solid, it must begin with the people themselves. 

DUCHENEAUX: I have hopes of being able to take something back to my reservation. 

I find the same old thing, however. We only discuss the problems - ’ ese many meetings 

and I've been trying to find out why this is. As I look at this thing, we re disorganized at 
the top! We need an Indian Coordinator in Washington, D. C., to get something definite 
accomplished! (Applause) 

STEVENS: I want to ask what role he sees for B1A, in fulfilling the idea of coordinating 

the needs of the tribes with Washington? 

DELORIA: For over a year, we've been working on economic development and the 

R l - l- Ttssm Mi SRE!9!B 5 


Bureau of Indian Affairs claims they work on economic development, but they do it by 
areas. If you're in the Aberdeen area, you don't know what's being developed in the 
Minneapolis area. 

For example, we've compared land purchase practices in Aberdeen and Portland, 
and they don't appear to be by the same government, let alone the same department! 

If the tribes stick together, support appropriations and map out programs, I think 
we can get development. If we all go our separate ways, complaining because the 
Bureau didn't do this or Public Health didn't do that, just filing complaints 24 hours a 
day, then things won't go our way. 


If we stick to very simple issues such as credit, coordination, housing and employ- 
ment, if we don't vary and if we stay on the Bureau to make them work for us, I think 
we'll be all right. 

RAMBLER: Clarence said much of this information is to come from somebody and 
it should really come from us. For a long time the government has been saying, This 
is good for you and that is good for you." But now policy has changed and the government 
is willing to listen to us. It's an opportunity to do something for our people. Initiative 
is what's lacking! We've attended meetings and heard a lot of good things, but when we 
go back home I know they die! We don't carry them to our people! 

CAMERON: At present, is part of the BIA serving as a clearinghouse where things 
may be directed? 

CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir. George Schmidt is Chief of the Branch of Industrial Develop 
ment and, presumably, will be a new assistant commissioner. He's now on the Board as 

a consultant. 

This branch of industrial development is supposed to work full time with industry 
to interest them in settling in Indian country . I've personally attended two meetings 
Secretary Udall has held with industrial leaders, discussing Indian country and what 
the Bureau can do to aid their consideration of a location that would involve employing 
Indians . 

Yes, we can say that George Schmidt knows of many industries actively considering 
a location on Indian reservations, but, when you say that, you haven't said much, 
because Indian reservations constitute only two percent of the land mass of the United 
States. At this point, local initiative becomes exceedingly important. It's confusing 
from the point of view of an industrialist. He says maybe he'd be willing to locate on a 
reservation and employ Indian people, but somebody must help finance me. But then he 
has 80 choices at least! He has hundreds, really! Involvement of the Indian people is 
absolutely essential. They must have a plan, know what they want, what they must 
offer and what they can offer! 

DELORIA: This idea, that you should sit down only with people who can put an 
electronics factory on your reservation is wrong. 

I came here with Vernon Jake who has a small tribe. They want a filling station. 
Give them a couple of filling stations and laundromats! It isn't a terribly big thing, but 
you're not talking about California and all it's scattered groups, or Nevada's small 
tribes, or western Washington's small tribes, or many of the Pueblo. Oklahoma's tribes 
are split up, too. I don't think you should concentrate solely on big electronics 
factories! You're talking about only 10 or 11 big tribes! Jump on the fieldmen! It 
doesn't take much to start a gas station or cafe for a little income and to put people to 
work. You can have 8 or 10 men employed in a 24 -hour gas station. 

If I was Commissioner, I'd jump on the Nevada agency 1 They have land near Las 
Vegas and Reno and could be developing cafes and 24 -hour gas stations. It may not be 



nice to talk about "dirty” work, but we must get down to basics. About 80 percent of 
the tribes are small and don’t need much. The problems aren’t always so big. If you 
always try to develop these showcase projects, you won t get a nything , done . 

CHAIRMAN: I don't know that I disagree. In meetings of this kind, we fall into the 
inevitable trap, even though we know better. I’m talking about Indians and we do forget 
that needs are varied among Indians. It's very easy to overlook things and it's probably 
correct we focus more on big ones, trying to make a splash or attract attention. In so 
doing, maybe we overlook 50 opportunities for a small beginning to accomplish something 

within our resources. 

GEORGE: Mr. Acoya, you mentioned $500,000 a year from your industry. Is 
that royalties or wages of those working in the plant? 

ACOYA: Income derived by 150 people who work there. 

GEORGE: How much royalties does the tribe get? How much does Anaconda 
take out of this? 

ACOYA: It depends on the amount of ore they extract each month, under their 
contract with AEC, and it depends on the ore value. If they take out, say $500, 000 worth 
in a month, the Pueblo will get around $50, 000. 

CHAIRMAN: Did I hear a question somewhere, or a comment? (Pause) I m just 
demonstrating that people from the Bureau can stand and not say anything. 

DELORIA: You don't have to be quiet to do that! 

CHAIRMAN: I should not feed "straight" lines. 

I'll tell you what's wrong. This is the first panel with all Indian leaders. The 
other panels had all "Feds" and that’s why the questions are coming so much faster. 

I ■ 


You're all bureaucrats too, but you work for the tribes instead of the government! 

STEVENS: It was brought up yesterday that most reservation Indians spend their 
income on local services owned by non-Indians such as the small service operation, 
grocery store, gas station and things Mr. Acoya mentioned. These can be real 
opportunities. I'm a little more pessimistic, however, on expecting initiative from the 
tribe. I'm not sure individual members of the tribe recognize profitable opportunities. 
I'm not really sure that local agencies couldn't better act in this area. In other words, 
everyone must eat and everyone buys gasoline. Why not buy them from Indians? 

CHAIRMAN: In other words, satellite businesses that grow around industries and 
population centers. 

PIERCE: Mr. Carmack, as you know, we've committed substantial sums of 
tribal money to some projects. Among other things we're attempting to build a 
culture center, museum, library and outdoor amphitheater. The projected cost is in 
the neighborhood of $2-million. We're at a point where we must have help! Can anyone 
here give us guidance in obtaining a grant form, say, Economic Development Adminis- 
tration, or some other organization? 



A MAN: Give them a shoe factory. All our shoes come from Italy! 

PIERCE: Of course, it s a credit matter and we'd have to put up our resources 
and property to obtain money. We're reluctant to do it. 

Can you make a suggestion on how we can get some relief within the next, say, 60 
days to 6 months? 

CHAIRMAN: Not know the specifics, Mr. Pierce, I'm unable to say more other 
than we ought to sit down and talk at greater length . 

McINTOSH: The problem is in regard to industry. There are 400 Indians here, 
representing the tribes of North America. There are executives and agency men meeting 
with us. This is probably a communication problem, but I've met only one man 
representing industry! This is a tremendous meeting and Indians from throughout the 
United States are here. Why weren't various industries around the country notified 
of this meeting, so they could be represented too? 

We shouldn't have 25 representatives here, 
solve this unemployment problem! (Applause) 

We should have 500 here to help 







Excerpted From: 








Other Participants 

Fred Feather stone 

Mrs. Mabel Harris 

Donald Huntley 

Ralph Perdue 
Benedict Quigno 

Crosslin Smith 
Lewis Zadoka 

Ralph Walker 

Supervisory Program Analyst 
U.S. Department of Labor 
Bureau of Employment Security 
Washington, D. C. 

Ben Evans 

Chief of Placement Commission 
Montana State Employment Service 
Helena, Montana 

Keith Jewitt 

Dean of Academic Affairs 
Black Hills State College 
Spearfish, South Dakota 

Employment Service Advisor 
U.S. Department of Labor 
Bureau of Employment Security 
Kansas City, Missouri 

Social Worker, OEO Indian Programs 
Sac and Fox of Oklahoma 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 

District Manager 

Wisconsin State Employment Service 
Green Bay, Wisconsin 

Board Member - OEO 
Fairbanks, Alaska 


Saginaw Chippewa Tribe of Michigan and 
Michigan State Commission on Indian Affairs 
Mt. Pleasant, Michigan 

Tribal Resource Officer 
Cherokee Tribe 
Tahlequah, Oklahoma 


Wichita Indian Tribe of Oklahoma 
Anadarko, Oklahoma 





CHAIRMAN: The object of this session is to discuss the research problems of 
manpower and to get ideas for research. Dr. Jewitt is our first speaker. 

DR. JEWITT: My field is sociology and education administration. I m v^ry much 

interested in research as it applies to the American Indian. 

Black Hills State College is a small school of about 1, 800 with a liberal arts program . 
We have a sizable interest in Indian students. We're relatively close to the Pine Ridge 

Reservation, the Rosebud, Cheyenne and so on. 

Meetings held this morning were concerned with what ought to be. In research, 
we’re not concerned with what ought to be, we're trying to find out "what is"! 

The American Indian has a certain uniqueness that's been overlooked. He has, in a 
sense, been tested to death and he wonders for what purpose. We've used testing devices 
which are not appropriate for him. We’ve assumed he's familiar with the language of 

the testing technique. 

For instance, on a reservation in South Dakota last fall, two young boys aged three 
and four were being taken to a center for testing and were assumed to be mentally 
retarded. It was assumed they were 8 and 6 and could not use the English language! The 
mother was conversant in English to a limited extent and when the social worker wanted 
to know their ages, she said 8 and 6! Actually they were 3 and 4. 

In Indian tradition, the names of great leaders who came to mind are Red Jacket, 
Corn Planter, Sitting Bull, Osceola, Victoria, Geronimo and others. This land was 
theirs. Now, their people have been placed in a position of inferiority in their own land. 

Let ' s keep that in m ind . 

Another thing we should keep in mind is that traditionally they have lived in rural 
existence and still do. This is their way of life. We recognize, of course, that rural 

scene in the U.S. 

existence is a passing 


The American Indian shares his possessions to a greater extent than the non- 
Indian, with those he identifies as friend. A Sioux Indian said, "Let's Wateca" -- "Let's 
share." Among the Sioux, there's a custom not unique to them. When friends eat with 
them and food remains after the meal, guests have the right to take it home with them . 
They take it home and "Wateca": eat at their leisure and think over all that was said 
during the meal . 

In a research project, we must exercise extreme care to get only that which the 
Indian people really said; a gesture, the lack of a gesture, crooking a finger or winking 
an eye. We have not, I feel, gotten a true picture of the subtleties of Indian communica- 

My friends of Sioux background, for example, have looked at studies that were 
conducted by reputable institutions and said, "This is not really the way it is, this is 
not really what was said." 

It is probable the American Indian has a difficult time of understanding the 
dominant non-Indian society. He's at somewhat of a loss to understand why the non- 
Indian does as he does . Let me quote something to underscore this point. This is 
Spotted Tail, chief of one group of the Sioux tribe, and he's speaking to Colonel Dodge 
who was then, in the 1870's, the commander of the military district in south -central 
South Dakota. Spotted Tail is talking to him about religion. 

"Black Beard, I have a serious question to ask you about religion. I am bothered 
about what to believe . Some years ago a good man came to us, talked me out of all 
my faults and, thinking he must know more of these matters than an ignorant Indian, 

I joined hi:' church and became a Methodist. After a while, he went away. Then another 
man came and talked and I became a Baptist. Another man came and talked and I became 
a Presbyterian. Now another comes and wants me to become an Episcopalian. What do 
you think? I've about made up my mind they don't know any more about it than I_did at 



first. White men have education and books and should know what to do, but hardly any 
two of them agree on what should be done . " 

Here is another quote, at about the same time from the area we now call Wyoming. 

The man speaking is Watchakee, one of the Shoshones. 

"We are glad, sir, that you have so briefly but kindly come among us. I shall speak to 
you freely of the many wrongs we have suffered at the hands of the white man. There are 
things to be noted and remembered, but I caunot hope to express half of what is in our hearts 
because they are too full for words, full of disappointment, deep sadness and grief unexpress- 
able. Great times with the tomahawk kindles in our hearts the fires of desperation. The 
white man who possesses the whole vast country from sea to sea, who roams over it and 
lives where he likes cannot know the cramp we feel in this little spot with the undying 
remembrance that every foot of what you call America not very long ago belonged to the 
red man. The great spirit gave it to us his many tribes and we were all happy in our free- 
dom. The white man, in ways we know not of, learned some things we did not know of 
making superior wars with terrible weapons and there was no end to the hordes of men that 
followed from beyond the sea. We get by cultivating the land, hunting and fishing, some- 
times nearly starved and half-naked, as you see us. Do you wonder, sir, why we have fits 
of desperation and want to avenge?" 

The American Indian, we must keep in mind, feels he is on the horns of a dilemma. 
Should he be a Presbyterian, a Methodist, or what? He has tradition of which he is justifiably 
proud. The Indian, as we see him today, is an accumulation of that which has gone before! 
We cannot ask that the Indian forget his past because it is part of his psychic make-up. In 
our research projects, we're attempting to understand him as completely as we can. 

As I see it, there are three groups of Indians; one that harps back to the days of pre- 
reservation, a second that is oriented to a reservation existence and a third which is 


attempting to become modern and lose their identity with the past. These three groups 
are our research project. 

Through our college, we're trying to understand this category of people as a complete 
pattern. We've divided the groups into two categories; those who have been successful in 
going out into the world and those who on the other hand, have been unsuccessful. I'm 
speaking of a character pattern of existence. We're trying to find the social and psycho- 
logical characteristics of persons who succeed and of persons who do not succeed. 

Another factor is that we're dealing with the non- Indian. It's one thing for the Indian 
to be motivated into living in a community, but he must work with the non- Indian. We're 
assuming, and I think it's valid assumption, that there's resistance to the Indian in the non- 
Indian community. We're trying to measure the nature and extent of this resistance, 

FEATHERSTONE: Uniqueness of the reservation should be taken into consideration 

in developing training programs. We must have knowledge of the uniquenesses of each re- 
servation where training is to be developed. 

I've heard the suggestion that Indian counselors be employed to work among Indians, 
because they'll be more accepted than non-Indians. I'm sure it has good basis. In die 
Employment Service, there is no possibility of having only Indians work widi Indians. 

Another suggestion was that Indian employment policy should be more flexible in govern- 
ment subsidy programs. There needs to be closer understanding between the employer and 
employee. Research in this area is necessary, but won't be the complete answer. Perhaps 
it would tell us what not to do. 

I'm not sure I want to mention in relation to research that die Bureau of Indian Affairs 
should be reconstructed. I'm not . . . (Laughter) (Continuing): ... in disagreement with die 
idea. I don't know that much about it. I happen to work in a bureaucracy, too! (Laughter) 

s mam 




(Continuing): There should be flexibility to try different kinds of things in research, 
but I'm not about to suggest that proposal as a research project! 

MRS. HARRIS: I say it's lack of communication from Indian to non-Indian. It doesn't 

matter if I'm a member of a person's tribe or not. If he knows I'm an Indian he s relaxed 
and will tell me his needs. I work with Indians of all tribes and we don't speak the same 
language, but I'm Indian and that's enough for them. You have to communicate. They ve 
reached the point where they don't believe anyone but an Indian and we're getting so we don't 
believe each other! The purpose, however, is to have Indians work with each other. 

In this conference I've heard about reservation problems and they are deep, but in urban 
areas it's worse. My heart goes out to those people. But I also communicate with non- 
Indians. I can tell an Indian, "Go there for training or for school, " and because an Indian 
told him, he'll go! 

We try to contact an agency, to alert them to a certain party and ask if they'll sit down 
and talk to him. It's been very successful. We Indians don't want your jobs. We don't 
want high positions . We just want to be the ones who talk to Indians! We don't have the 
education for research jobs and Bureau jobs. Sometimes what you've recorded in research 
is not what was meant. You express it in a way an Indian would not express it and a little 
fact might make a lot of difference. I'm very happy that people have spent time and money 
in research, but I don't think reconstructing the Bureau would solve any tiling. 

I've been to many conferences, but our people are getting poorer every day. That's the 
point! I don't care if there's a Bureau for 100 or more years, but an Indian is Bureau Com- 
missioner and it's just the idea that someone is there to help us. Mr. Bennett is going to 
help us. It's a feeling we Indians have about each other. 

There are many Indians in each community who are well qualified to counsel Indians, 

to talk with them and to tell them about programs that are available. 


SMITH: I wholeheartedly agree and, frankly, we're surveyed and researched to death 

as Indians . Money has been put into research and surveys that should have been utilized 
elsewhere. We've resisted surveys. The psychology of the Indian is deeply rooted and 
hard to appreciate. I think the only possible way to understand the Indian is to have lived 
his life from birth while holding on to the traditional ways. What group, Doctor, was the 
successful one within a tribe? 

DR. JEWITT: I can't answer that at this time. We don't know. 

It would seem that those who are successful are, loosely using the term, progressive. 

PERDUE: I agree there should be research, but it should be on how much money they 
appropriate for Indian use and how much of it actually goes to the Indian! We did our own 
unofficial research and it was about 10 percent! The other 90 percent was for traveling, 
paper work, office administration and all that jazz. If you could make it, 10 percent for 
administration and 90 percent for the Indian, you might solve the problem. 

We're not waiting for a bureau any more on employment in Alaska! We're taking the 
necessary steps to get employment for poor people. We appointed an Aleut as director of 
the state OEO and various coordinators are being replaced. The majority will be Indian, 
Eskimo or Aleut. There are Indian people who must have welfare. That's a long subject 
and I could get into it, but I might say the wrong thing. The Bureau didn't contribute any- 
thing to me. I've always been independent. My family is independent. I own a jewelry 
store in Fairbanks and, this coming summer, I'll train an Indian as a clerk. That's one 
phase of the program. The other phase is through the Human Rights Commission and is in 
agreement with the Fairbanks Native Association composed of Indian, Eskimo and Aleut. 

We worked out a program with military bases for employment. We get a list of bi-monthly 
job openings on die bases. 

sv — wjujwu. — ii i iiMBsrra 


Education is fine, but there's a lot more to it. You can have an education, but if 
you don't have ambition, the education is no good. If we find an Indian with no education, 
we give him job training. I don't choose people because they're friends of mine either! 

I've taken alcoholics from skid row, put them on a job in the power plants and they've 
worked for three years! The mere fact they were recognized as an individual, as human 
beings, helped them . I tell them the world doesn't owe them a living, they owe the 
world something. 

HUNTLEY : I agree wholeheartedly with Mrs . Harris . Number one, everyone in 
the room is here because of their experience. If you don't let Indians work with Indians 
they never will be able to educate themselves. If I don't see my staff members making 
mistakes I assume they're not doing anything. 

Number two, I was recorder for the panel that restructured BIA. The reason for 
this, as I understood from Indian members, was that the urban Indian has as many or 
more problems than the reservation Indian. It was the understanding of the group that 
BIA was not in a position to offer services to the off-reservation Indian. The reason for 
the recommendation was that BIA be allowed to serve all Indians. 

Number three, I get the feeling, in roaming around this hotel that the Indian is an 
outdoor individual with an outdoor culture. His body may be under the roof of the Hotel 
President, but his soul is under nature's roof. I'd like Dr. Jewitt to tell us if the Indian 
can enter the mainstream and still maintain his culture. Some Indians I've talked to seem 
to fear they would lose by going into the mainstream . 

DR. JEWITT: At this stage I can't see ’ v. the American Indian can retain his tradi- 
tions, essentially that of a rural existence, and be taken into the mainstream. I'll not mention it 

here, but I have a proposal for development of Indian resources on their land. In South 
Dakota we have about 25, 000 Indians and, I would imagine, 4/5ths are on the land. If you 
put them in a town they're lost. How can you talk to them about the "3 R's" when they don't 
have food or heat, when the children haven't had a meal since school-lunch the day before? 
How can you talk about moral values -- I think I'd better sit down! 

ZADOKA: Mr. Featherstone says you must first be an Indian to really understand the 

BIA. I've been an Indian all my life, I don't intend to change and I like it pretty good. 

I have to agree with Mrs. Harris. I've made the transition from the white world to 
the Indian world, I went to public schools and college and now I'm back with the Indian where 
I belong. I have a wife who is non-Indian. We don't call her "white", 'cause she's more 
Indian than I am! When these "salesmen" want to talk to us about Indian affairs, she says, 
"There comes an old white man; I wonder what he's selling?" The only thing I can say in 
regard to research and employment is that I work for the Bureau, so I'm mixed up in this 

QUIGNO: 1 have two proposals for research designed towards raising employability 

for Indians. We request concerned agency assistance in implementing and developing our 
long-range community development program. We need technical assistance and studies. 
There are university facilities nearby and personnel available to us. The potential warrants 
consideration for establishing the Saginaw-Chippewa as a demonstration project. They have 
unsuccessfully submitted a sociological research proposal. We're not participating in the 
economic benefits in our area. 

Proposal number one relates to education, economic development, community facilities 
and development planning. It includes many other aspects. The tribe is small and resources 
limited, but probability of success is excellent. Benefits gained may be useful elsewhere. 



Proposal number two is an industrial "Big Brother" program. The problems in urban 
versus reservation situations are vastly different. They make adjustment an awesome, 
shocking, often overwhelming experience that produces dropouts. We propose to institute 
a "Big Brother" program using industrial organizations, service clubs, churches, schools, 
union, state and federal agencies to help a relocatee become adjusted to an "away-from- 
home" situation. Volunteers would work with a new Indian employee-relocatee, take him 
to sporting events, bowling and other activities and provide support in the period of adjust- 
ment. There have been too few contacts. Follow-ups may help keep them in the basically 

very good training programs. 

While here at the conference, can we be routed to the proper agency, resources or 
personnel to discuss these proposals? We feel they will help achieve die stated purpose of 
this conference; critical discussion of proposals and planning improvement or development 

of meaningful service programs. 

FEATHERSTONE: I must have my say. First, one thing certainly happened as a re su 

of what I said, we got some discussion going. Second, I can't claim all die comments I 
made. They were kind of "secondhand" in many instances, except those on Indian counse- 
lors. Indian people who were counselors said they thought it would be better in some 
instances if Indians were nmcounselors, because they felt that the Indians were much too 
hard, or much too tolerant! They felt diat, many times, tills was a hindrance rather than 

something that would help out. 

Excerpted From: 





William E. Amos 

Special Assistant for Human Resources 

Bureau of Employment Security, USES 
U.S. Department of Labor 
Washington, D. C. 


Robert Jackson 

Minority Group Representative 
Employment Security Department 
Seattle, Washington 


Dr. William H. Kelly 

Professor of Anthropology 
University of Arizona 
Tucson, Arizona 

Other Participants 

Frank Estes 

Director of Program Development 
University of South Dakota 
Vermillion, South Dakota 

Jack Jayne 

Area Employment Assistance Officer 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Muskogee, Oklahoma 

Mrs. Vynola Newkumet 

Representative, Caddo Tribe 
Norman, Oklahoma 

Owen Nielsen 

Farm Placement Supervisor & Indian Program 
Employment Security Department 
Aberdeen, South Dakota 

Tom Tommaney 

Superintendent, Haskell Institute 
Lawrence, Kansas 

Frank Wright 

Representative of Tulalip Tribe 
Tacoma, Washington 


CHAIRMAN: I think we've found in the last three or four years, that it s not a 

problem of getting a new instructional process, but a problem of getting Indians involved 
in training and education to develop certain skills and change certain attitudes and values, 

enabling them to move into the mainstream. 

Let's look at their culture as their way of life. Let's look at all the attitudes, values, 

artifacts and social institutions of that culture. One part of culture is passing on a way of 
life to the young. In human development, the child is often a prodigy of his culture. Every- 
one at birth is just a few pounds of protoplasm and potentiality . What you become, within 
genetic capabilities, is the result of experiences and culture. Personality will be structured 
by early experiences. 

In any massive Manpower Development Program concerning Indians and reservations, 

we must decide some very basic issues. 

With a great deal of pleasure, I present Dr. William H. Kelly. 

DR. KELLY: It has been my experience in Arizona that if you want a job, you can get 

special attention and special services from the State Employment Office by identifying your- 
self as an Indian. 

My assignment is to speak on some social and cultural considerations in the develop- 
ment of Manpower Programs for Indians. 

First, I'm going to suggest that the Bureau of Indian Affairs use an interpretation of 
the word "unemployed." Their approach to the "unemployment problem" has obscured 
some fundamental problems of Indian adjustment. 

The Bureau of Indian Affairs for many years has talked of the "unemployed as being 
all Indians under their jurisdiction who are not disabled, not in school or an institution, 
or who did not work during most weeks or months of the year. Under this system of 

no* uii'u«iy 


classification, perhaps half of the adult male Indian population can be classed as 
unemployed. When a man is declared to be unemployed the thing to do is put him to 
work. The way to put him to work is to develop irrigation systems and cattle ranges 
on the reservations, to relocate him in some city where wage work is available or, 
most recently, to push programs of resource and industrial development on and near 
Indian land. 

The whole business is heartwarming, thoroughly American, and acceptable to 
Congress, but not much help to the Indians! This is because economic solutions have 
been applied to a program which is basically social and psychological. Such programs 
are designed for the elite and the steady workers . 

There are three broad classes of adult Indians: One, the Elite: the relatively 
small number who are well adjusted, educated and fully employed. Two, the Workers: 
well over half the total male population, 14 and older. This group includes the full- 
time workers, the part-time workers and,at any given time, the relatively few 
unemployed. Three, the Idle: this group far outnumbers the unemployed and includes, 
along with some of the "Workers, " the chronically underemployed. 

Although the Indian situation represents special problems, the "Workers" and 
"Idle" are well recognized in the U.S. Census and by Bureau of Labor Statistics. When 
USES designates a person as being unemployed, they mean he's looking for work and 
is willing and able to work. The concept is thus a measure of the economy and not the 
psychological or social condition of the Indian. 


According to the Bureau of Indian Affairs, from 40 to 50 percent of American 
Indians are "unemployed." The following statement is from a speech delivered in 
Chicago in 1964 by the former Commissioner of Indian Affairs Dr . Philleo Nash: 

"Let me tell you how poor Indians are: Unemployment on the reservations runs 
between 40 and 50 percent -- 7 or 8 times the national average. " In 1963 testimony 
before the Subcommittee on Employment and Manpower of the Senate Committee on 
Labor and Public Welfare, the Bureau of Indian Affairs filed the following statement: 
"Because it would be unrealistic to measure the need for employment on the 
reservations by the number of Indians actively seeking work without success, the 
Bureau has used another definition of unemployment. Our estimates include all 
Indians of working age who are neither unemployed, because of physical or mental 
handicaps, nor unavailable for employment because of enrollment in school, family 
responsibilities, or early retirement. The resulting survey, the first to be made 
simultaneously of all reservations, indicated a labor force of about 120, 000, slightly 
more than half of whose members were employed. Half the employment, in turn, 
was of temporary nature." 

Not 50 percent, not 30 percent, not even 10 percent of the Indians are unemployed! 
This does not mean that Indians are not in trouble; they're in plenty of trouble; but the 
descriptive words are idleness and social maladjustment. 

My statement needs support. In the 1960 Census, slightly more than 9 percent 
of 163, 337 Indian males were designated as being unemployed. In the same census, 
slightly more than 7 percent of the Papago and Pima Indian males of southern Arizona, 
were defined as unemployed. In a 1964 study of Papago employment, less than 4 percent 
of Papago males were found to be employed. The smaller percentage of unemployed found 
in our study results, I'm sure, from the special care we took to determine whether or 
not a man was actually in or out of the labor force for a given period. 


According t:o the Bureau of Indian Affairs, from 40 to 50 percent of American Indians 
are "unemployed. " The following statement is from a speech delivered in Chicago in 1964 
by the former Commissioner of Indian Affairs Dr. Philleo Nash: "Let me tell you how poor 
Indians are: Unemployment on the reservations runs between 40 and 50 percent -- 7 or 8 
times the national average. " In 1963 testimony before the Subcommittee on Employment 
and Manpower of the Senate Committee on Labor and Public Welfare, the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs filed the following statement: "Because it would be unrealistic to measure the need 
for employment on the reservations by the number of Indians actively seeking work without 
success, the Bureau has used another definition of unemployment. Our estimates include 
all Indians of working age who are neither unemployed, because of physical or mental 
handicaps, nor unavailable for employment because of enrollment in school, family re- 
sponsibilities, or early retirement. The resulting survey, the first to be made simultaneously 
of all reservations, indicated a labor force of about 120, 000, slightly more than half of 
whose members were employed. Half the employment, in turn, was of temporary nature." 

Not 50 percent, nojt 30 percent, not even 10 percent of the Indians are unemployed! 

This does not mean that Indians are not in trouble; they're in plenty of trouble; but the de- 
scriptive words are idleness and social maladjustment. 

My statement needs support. In the 1960 Census, slightly more than 9 percent of 
163, 337 Indian males were designated as being unemployed. In the same census, slightly 
more than 7 percent of the Papago and Pima Indian males of southern Arizona, were defined 
as unemployed. In a 1964 study of Papago employment, less than 4 percent of Papago males 
were found to be unemployed. The smaller percentage of unemployed found in our study 



This is the magnitude -- 9 percent, 7 percent and 4 percent — of an economic 
problem that can and should be met by economic measures. 

The segment of the Indian population in social and psychological trouble is 
materially larger. In the same 1960 Census, 23 percent of all Indian males were 
tabulated as being outside the labor force and not in school or an institution. These 
are the idle, the physically and the mentally disabled. The 1964 Papago survey records 
26 percent of adult males in this category, of whom 14 percent were idle and 12 percent 
disabled or over age. This is the highest percentage of idle men found in any ethnic 
group in this country! 

There are two principal classes of Indian males who are listed as "idle" in any 
employment survey — one class if diminishing and the other is expanding. The 
diminishing group, mostly reservation residents, is made up of the less acculturated 
men who are attempting to live by Indian values in the face of rapid economic change. 
They are reasonably well adjusted, spend a great deal of time in social and ceremonial 
activities, scrounge a living from their kinsmen and neighbors by engaging in 
occasional farm work or running a few head of cattle. 

The expanding group is made up of men who are torn between Indian values and 
the Indian way of life and the demands of modern avenues for self-employment or wage 
work. They live on and off the reservations, seek work only sporadically, drink too 
much and at the wrong time, and come and go with little regard for their family and 
community responsibilities. The psychological nature of the situation in which these 
maladjusted men find themselves has been pointed out by Jack Waddell as follows: 

"... the most unstable and undependable . . . were those who could use English 
well, those who have had extended exposure to schools and vocational programs 





and those who comprehend the meaning of certain Anglo values. They seem to 
be among those most prone to job- jumping and voluntary unemployment. Much 
of it can be attributed to age and unreadiness to feel obliged to settle down, 
but much of the behavior can be explained in terms of dissonance or the in- 
ability to articulate the understanding they have of Anglo cultural values, with 
sufficient motivation to implement these values." 

I haven't said one thing not already known, explicitly or implicitly, to field men of the U.S. 
Employment Service! To my knowledge, they've taken these factors into account and have 
paid special attention to the task of moving their Indian clients into the labor force. Work 
with Indians obviously emphasizes unusual placement measures, and even more, the testing, 
counseling, vocational training and job development aspects of the Employment Service. 

But this is not enough, and there's little or nothing I know of that USES can do about it. 
The majority of American Indians, obviously, are reaching for their own version of Ameri- 
can life. Definitely, this does not include the repudiation of their Indian heritage and it 
does not include assimilation. 

If we accept this fact and the fact of maladjustment that seems to stem from a refusal 
to assimilate, the problem of the American Indian is placed in an entirely new perspective. 
The problem is biculturalism and neither the Indians, nor federal agencies, nor anyone 
else, really understand the first tiling about this problem. To become bilingual is no 
great task. Neither is it difficult to be bicultural when the cultures trace to a common 
source such as the Judeo -Christian tradition. The difficult task is to live, simultaneously, 
with parts and pieces of two entirely different sets of cognitive orientations and values! 

For example you learn in one culture that man and nature are one and that man must learn 
to live with nature. In the second culture you learn that man and nature are worlds apart 


and that man must dominate nature. In one culture you learn the supernatural is both good 
and evil and that the supernatural gives and withdraws health, crops and fertility. In the 
second culture you learn that germs cause disease, hybrid seed determines the amount of 
a crop and that a little pill controls fertility. In one culture you learn to shake hands with 
Mr . B. and in the other culture you learn that perhaps you shouldn't shake hands with Mr. B. 
Just simple things like that. 

The problem of reconciliation goes on every day and every hour, and even the most 
sophisticated Indian, is forever battling for cognitive control and for a sense of unity in the 
universe, especially in the universe of social relations, the things the Anglo-American 
takes for granted. 

This battle for cognitive control, as I call it, is the result of bewilderment, discourage- 
ment and anger. The Indian, unaware of the causes of his difficulty, escapes pressure 
through idleness, erratic work habits, alcoholism and apathy. 

When one culture in the bicultural mix is as dominant as the Anglo culture, a byproduct 
of the loss of cognitive control is a negative self-image. Only within the last year or two has 
this problem been attacked in any organized fashion and, I predict, the work will be a fore- 
runner to studies and experiments aimed at methods for securing a normal, bicultural ad- 

A great deal of work is needed to find perhaps the crucial sort of compromise that a child 
can make. What sort of tilings are being taught at school that this Indian child need not be 
taught, so he can take only that part of the other culture he will need , to live in our world. 

The programs I refer to have been established by Robert Roessel in a new experimental 
school at Rough Rock on the Navajo Reservation, and by Father John F. Bryde in an equally 
new program at Pine Ridge Mission School in the Sioux country of South Dakota. 

At Rough Rock, the Bureau of Indian Affairs in association with OEO is permitting 
Dr. Roessel to create a revolutionary system of education and community development. 

The philosophy of Rough Rock school is that it's possible to teach Indians to live in dignity 
as Indians, while participating in, and enjoying the benefits of, the American economic 
system. Navajo Indian leaders teach the history and folklore of Navajo life. Indian values 
and the Navajo language are taught side by side with the ABC's and new math. Indian 
children are deliberately taught that the Indian way, however outmoded it may be, is worthy 
in its own right and not the shabby product of ignorant primitives as most Americans view 
it. The school board is composed of five Navajo Indians who have had personal experience 
with biculturalism . They know what it means and let's hope they find some answer to pass 
on to Dr. Roessel diat can be worked into the curriculum, so that the cognitive control these 
Indian youngsters had when they entered first grade, will not be taken from them as a result 
of educational experience. 

Dr. Roessel and Father Bryde may not be on the right track as far as psychological 
theory is concerned, but if they're not, its certainly not their fault, because psychologists 
have not come up with the understanding of biculturalism we should have. 

The U.S. Employment Service, because they made distinction between the man in the 
work force and the man not in the work fc.rce, can perhaps use it's influence to draw atten- 
tion to this idle segment of the Indian population. It's a larger segment than the unemployed 
Indians. USES may be able to make an all out attack on this problem of idleness, which I 
contend is a normal reaction of the Indian to an extremely abnormal situation in which he 
finds himself. 

CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Dr. Kelly. 

I'd like to read something here: "They may function below their potential, because of 
a deficiency in educational background or because they don't know of various employment 


opportunities to which they could aspire. They may have such low self-esteem that it's 
difficult to see themselves as able to acquire or hold jobs for which they re otherwise 
cap ab le. They may even be reluctant to train for better jobs, in the belief they 11 find 
nothing open to them, which is based on the observed experiences of their friends and 
families. They may be socially underdeveloped, act impulsively and have difficulty getting 
along with co-workers and employers. They may not understand how to accept supervision, 
to develop and learn under it, or to tolerate any implied criticism. They may be irresponsi- 
ble; lacking middle class standards of reliability . They may not show up in time for inter- 
views, be late for work, or not show up at all for several days. Punctuality is often not 
expected or practiced in their home environment. Some may be bitter and disillusioned 
with hidden or obvious hostility. Others will have a sense of powerlessness in the face of 
overwhelming obstacles; some will compensate with an over agressive manner, but more 

will be inarticulate and withdrawn from adults. " 

This seems to be a description of Indians, perhaps, but it describes a group of Negro 
boys in a training project in Chicago; the vast majority born and raised in urban areas! 

I spent several years of my life teaching in institutions for the underprivileged and de- 
linquents, and one thing we had was "Half-way Houses." Would tribal operated Half-way 
Homes have any validity? 

ESTES: I have two points to make. One is involvement which I think the federal agencies 

are coming to recognize as important. If they haven't, I hope they hurry to that stage. 

Indian, Negro, or what have you, they're all pa. t of a poverty culture, for want of another 
term. It behooves federal and state programs to redesign their efforts and their approaches 
in providing services to these people. 

When MDTA, or the Employment Service, or any of the federal agencies say, "Yes, 
we want to get Indian people involved, " it seems to me their terms of involvement are that 



you Indian people come over here and get involved. Why don’t federal agencies come, if 
not all the way, half-way and involve themselves at their level, on their own terms, at their 
own rate, and in such fashion as they think appropriate. If federal agencies don't do this 
and they wait, they’ll be, in effect, penalizing these poverty-stricken people for their own 

ignorance . 

The second point I want to make is that I think the Employment Service, in addition to 
providing services and help for the Indian people, should also provide an image for the 

Indian people. 

I’m from South Dakota and I don’t see many, if any Indian people employed at their area 
office. I don’t think any are in state employment. They should get into the act by providing 
an image for the Indian people through employment of Indians at certain levels. "One of my 

kind is there, " they'll say. 

The Bureau of Indian Affairs is probably the most "out in front" agency doing this. I 
think over 50 percent of their staff is now Indian. Indian Health is doing it and Employment 

Service should also consider it very seriously. 

DR. KELLY: I'd like to comment on the matter of bringing Indians into planning for 

solution of their own problems . 

It’s almost impossible for a bureaucrat in the formal operation of his office and his 
duties to set up a situation in which this can happen and I place the blame directly on 
Washington. Perhaps I don’t know too much about what goes on in Washington, but the 
directives always come from Washington with "Congress has passed a new bill, we have this 
new setup and we- want you to implement it. We want you to go to the Indians, get their 
opinions about this, and write it up. Write your reaction, the point of view of the Indians, 
and we'll give you 24 hours in which to get it back to Washington. " I’ve witnessed it many 




times. They ask "Joe" if he doesn't think it's a pretty good idea and Joe is like most Indians; 
a real nice fellow; and he'll say, "Yes, okay." 

They've created I heard this morning what's newly fashionable in Washington, a total 
program involving all federal agencies . If you have a good program you can get money 
collectively from all the agencies. There's some magic about being able to say, "We will 
set up this program and it will be finished in 12 months." You couldn't even explain it to the 
Indians in 12 months much less get it going! If I could influence those people, I'd suggest 
they select -- and they're not hard to find -- 20 or 30 leading Indian citizens of a community, 
take them away from the reservation to a hotel someplace and settle it the way they settle 
labor disputes. Lock the door and don't let them out until they’ve gone over every angle 
and every side of the proposal being made! They may accomplish something. 

NIELSEN: Mr. Estes failed to mention that he used to work for us. We're a small 
state of 700, 000 people and there are 27, 000 Indians. With die small number of positions 
we're given, it's very difficult to give any great number to 'his small minority. We have 
two Indians in one office and we're attempting to open offices on other reservations. We've 
been trying to employ an Indian interviewer. We hired two, but they told their employer, 
and lie gave them $100 a month raises and took them away from us. We can't compete with 
that. When HRD asked for seven positions all to be placed on reservations, we got two! 

It's very difficult to cover eight separate reservations with two people, but that's what we're 
faced with. I thought I should defend South Dakota a little bit. 

WRIGHT: No disrespect to Dr. Kelly, but being an Indian, I feel I'm also an expert 

on Indians! (Applause) 

He made statements about a low percentage of unemployed Indian people, in comparison 
with high percentages, and that some unemployment figures may include employed people. 

I wouldn't say they're employed when they're working for $1.50 and $2 a day, sometimes, 


and under very adverse conditions. Some people call it employment, but I don't consider 
it employment, whatever! 

The Half-way House type of approach to the problem of Indian people moving into a 
different society, is a new one. We just recently got a multi-purpose center in our area. 

It's a real advantage for Indian people. In this multi-purpose center we have 10 Indian 
people from 10 different tribes. It's very useful to any people strange to a community. 
Workers come to this center and speak to people of their own group or their own part of the 
country, or in their own language and they don't feel so divorced from their original way 
of life. This helps the Indian know in his own mind that he's not away from his culture, 
because he can still maintain his status as an Indian. This is Indian people understanding 

other Indian people. 

CHAIRMAN: Years ago, when I attended the University of Tulsa, there were many 

Indians who had problems with grades, personnel and other things. They all moved into a 
rooming house; 10 or 12 Indian kids. They were more comfortable there and their grades 

came up. 

WRIGHT: A statement was made about trying to communicate with the Indian people 

to get their evaluation of a particular program decided for them. In the OEO system, these 
people are allowed to draft their own programs and ideas and present them for approval. 
There’s no problem this way in selling a program to the Indians. They're promoting their 
own program and feel further moved to get behind it and make it go, because it's theirs! 

CHAIRMAN: Please don’t misunderstand. You're Indian and feel you're your own 

authority, but remember there are 175-million Americans who feel they re their own 
authority and 14-million others who feel the same way and, if we all_ think that way, we’ve 
got a pretty big problem to overcome! 

i I, I BN i 



DR. KELLY: In our American upbringing, we have certain points of view we 
are forever promoting. We correct this, somewhat, as we go along but not as much as 
we should. When Dr. Roessel went to Rough Rock, he demanded the school be run by 
Indians and saw to it they secured five Navajo Indians for the school board. He's 
sufficiently sensitive, I know, that when these five people have something to say, he's 
going to pay particular attention to them and it's not set up as a kind of shadow board. 

This is the beginning of something that should occur all over this country. I 
recommend to the gentlemen who spoke that when he gets home, wherever it is, he 
personally start a campaign to get Indians on the boards of schools that have Indian 
children. They need not be educated people! 

I've been told, but I'm not sure of the facts, that one of this five-member school 
board has a third -grade education and the other four were never in school a day in 
their lives! 

JAYNE: We have facilities of a "Half-way House" at Oklahoma State Tech. We 
have a Half-way House, but we aren't responsible for it's being there. It was there 
when we started our vocational training program . We have around 150 Indian people 
in the school. It’s an excellent school. Many people who go to school there say, "We 
won't leave Oklahoma." 

Through one or two years of transition, they associate with other people and have 
their own clubs. When they graduate, around 50 percent will say, "We want to go 
where the most money is. " We don't try to make them believe it ahead of time. They 
gradually attain this attitude while training. I think this is similar to a Half-way House 
you're speaking of . 


MRS. NEWKUMET: Indians insist and believe that they have some worthy values 
and they'll not give them up. Tell them to give up their total culture and everything 
else to go into a bicultural atmosphere and they won't do it! They should come to know 
that they can bridge the gap between both while keeping what they think is of value from 

DR. KELLY: I doubt if I could disagree with that. Again, the problem is one of 
understanding this biculturalism . 

MRS. NEWKUMET: He won't assimilate completely and insists on his heritage 
and others talk about the shame of it. There's nothing in the Indian heritage to be 
ashamed of. The shame is in their inability to cooperate or to get into the mainstream, 
even though they know they must. If they could know they didn't have to give up these 
values, it would be wonderful. They take care of their old folks. Do all people do 
this? They 're not pushy, they're considerate. They're courteous most of the time. 

Of course, these are attributes everyone has, but they're predominant with Indians. 

I see no reason for giving up these things. If they're understood and accepted, then we 
can have a plan for totally bridging the vast gap . 

There needs to be understanding, by people like you gentlemen, for showing 
appreciation of such things. It's usually dismissed and ridiculed and quite often they 
remain totally silent . 

TOMMANEY: I have no pearl of wisdom to add to this discussion, except to say 
we sometimes oversimplify such things as cultural pattern, beliefs, attitudes, super- 
stitions and suspicions of Indians. I've found, after 28 years in education, that 
whatever your relationship with Indian people, it includes respecting human dignity 
of the individual beyond just recognizing that he's Indian. I'm a product of the boarding 
school type of education that the Bureau has seen fit to arrange for Indians . I'm in 
the middle working class and I owe a lot of people for the help that put me where I am 
today . 


DR. KELLY: I would classify you as one of the elite. 

CHAIRMAN: I think our session is the underpinning for this whole conference. 
Before we break up, I'd like to make only one more observation. 

There is a conglomeration of cultures around the world, and different racial 
groups handle the problem of maintaining culture and attitudes of origin while 
operating within a larger culture. I think many groups, such as the Jewish people 
and the Chinese, for example, have maintained their cultural ties. It s done by 
dozens and dozens of groups. These values we maintain and cherish. 

In planning any manpower program, these cultural ties and attitudes of origin 
will be considered . 

It’s not the purpose of manpower programs to cast all men in a mold. It s 
to give them an opportunity, as individuals, to develop their potentials . 




II IIIIMT— — i T— IM— — Mi— — -—— — Tr—H III III I I A 



Director, United States Employment Service 
U.S. Department of Labor 
Bureau of Employment Security 
Washington, D.C. 


White Mountain Apaches 
Whiteriver, Arizona 


Professor of Industrial Relations 
School of Labor and Industrial Relations 
Michigan State University 
East Lansing, Michigan 


Arizona State Employment Service 
Phoenix, Arizona 


Regional Administrator 
Region VII 

Bureau of Employment Security 
U.S. Department of Labor 
Kansas City, Missouri 


CASSELL: It's been a very rewarding two days for me. I came to learn and from 

what I've heard, you don't want words, you want action. As a conference draws to an end, 
it seems to become a kind of race, a race between the stamina of the audience and the courage 
of the speaker. (Laughter) 

First, Employment Service and affiliated agency groups will meet tomorrow morning 
to formulate concrete plans of action based on the suggestions and ideas which have come 
from you delegates. 

Second, I urge every state to meet promptly and lay concrete plans. 

Third, I want you to know that the Human Resources Development Program of the Depart- 
ment of Labor has, as its most fundamental basis, the notion that every man should have 
a say in what happens to him. 

Fourth, We urge every government agency in every state to draw together and solve 
these problems which have come up repeatedly among the delegates: The problems of com- 
munication, coordination and government agencies' responsiveness. In maintaining continuity 
we must close the program gaps and end the "Alice in Wonderland" approach where people 
run from pillar-to~post to find out anything! One thing that's important is that government 
agencies do something immediately ! It should be part of our plan to insure that we take the 
trouble to communicate properly, coordinate activities and not duplicate them, and most 
important, be responsive to the Indian. 

Fifth, A suggestion was made to establish an Indian desk in the Department of Labor, 
which sparked a very responsive cord in me and I will so recommend. (Applause.) 

Sixth, Together with Farm Labor Service, we will meet regularly with the Indian leader- 
ship wherever they want to bring fullest possible information about programs to Indians and 
to Indian leadership. I talked to Todd Potter who already has a man assigned and I propose 
to assign another man to work with him to see that this is done. 


Seventh, A proposal for an "advisory group" also strikes a responsive cord and this 
demands serious, immediate attention. I will give it serious consideration in Washington. 

But immediately, I should like to see State Employment Security and Employment Services 
make arrangements to work with the tribes to bring "advisory groups" into being in each 

Eighth, I'm very encouraged that industry is here, especially "Plans for Progress" 
people, who will be meeting in New York City tomorrow and discussing recommendations 
Indians have made. 

Lastly, these sessions have given me opportunity to admire and appreciate the forth- 
right and vigorous views expressed by the delegates. This is the only way we can make 
progress. (Applause.) 

CHAIRMAN: Ronnie Lupe has asked for time. 

LUPE: Ladies and Gentlemen, a resolution passed in a meeting in January, honoring 

Frank Cassell: 

(Lupe reads resolution.) 

Mr. Frank Cassell, I'm honored to present this plaque to you, making you an honorary 
member of the White Mountain Apache tribe. (Great applause. ) 

CHAIRMAN: Now, a conference critique by Dr. Daniel Kruger. 

DR. KRUGER: In a sense, this conference is a declaration of war against unemploy- 

ment, underemployment and poverty of the American Indian. It is a protest conference 
against the promise of the white man and his performance towards the First Americans. 

The conference also in a sense is a treaty between government agencies, their state affiliates 
and all the Indian tribes represented here to see that every effort will be made to enable the 
Indian to participate in the mainstream of American life, if they so desire. 


To put it another way, we want Indians to have opportunity to fully participate in the 
white man's culture as well as the Indian culture. They have been excluded too long from 
the mainstream of American life. 

This conference underscores dramatic changes which have occurred in our country in 
recent years. Under the policy of exclusion, all kinds of impediments were established 
which kept the Indian from active participation in American life. We discriminated against 
them. We denied them employment and opportunity. We failed to provide adequate educa- 
tion, training end realistic standards for apprenticeship and jobs, both in and out of govern- 
ment, and we excluded Indians from full consideration. 

There are 76-million Americans in the labor force today. Ninety percent are employees 
who work for some private or public employer. This has not always been true. Once we 
were a nation of farmers who worked the land. Later, we were small shopkeepers and arti- 
sans. But as our society evolved, self-employment declined and working as an employee 
increased. The job became the most important economic activity, because it is through the 
job that Americans get income to underwrite a given standard of living. To have a good, 
steady, decent job is the goal of most Americans. 

The Declaration of Independence announced in a loud, clear voice that every citizen 
was entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What does this mean in job economy? 
Without a job, there can be no life. Without a job, the individual is a nobody. Without a 
job, there is no liberty, no freedom. A job is a passport to freedom, dignity and self- 
respect. Without a job, there can be no pursuit of happiness. 

This conference is designed to give meaning to that hallmark of America, that every 
Indian is entitled to life, liberty ana' pursuit of happiness. All federal and state agencies 
must be committted to this general principle which has been so zealously guarded and de- 
fended throughout our history. Failure to do so makes a mockery and a sham of these 


mi W&r 


hallowed principles. We've delayed too long, we've talked too long, been careless too long, 
closed our eyes too long and been indifferent too long. We've permitted the gap between 
the white man's promise and his performance to become incredibly wide. We must make 

a determined effort as quickly as possible to reduce the credibility gap between promise 
and performance. (Applause.) 

Permit me to expand another definition of human resource development. What is human 
resource development? It's the process of increasing the knowledge, skills, capabilities 
and capacities, so one can enjoy the benefits of our great country. Human resource develop- 
ment is a must if the American Indian is to fully participate in our society. Human resource 
development has an economic, political and social dimension. 

In economic terms, human resource development is an accumulation of skills with which 
the Indian can contribute. In political terms, human resource development enables them 
to participate intelligently in the political life of the tribe, state and nation. The social 
terms, in human resource development, help the Indian to lead a richer and fuller life less 

bound by tradition. The process of human resource development unlocks the door to oppor- 

We have also been concerned with tribal development, not only in economic terms, but 
in terms of developing leadership through which tribes can help themselves. We're also 

concerned with public development of the roads, schools, hospitals and other institutions 
of social service. 

The discussions indicate that this National Manpower Conference could, if it so desired, 
enunciate a new Bill of Rights for American Indians. Our discussions suggest the new Bill 
of Rights should include the following: 

1. The right of the American Indian to human dignity, respect and freedom. 


2. The right of the American Indian to a decent job which will enable him to utilize 
his capabilities as fully as possible. 

3. The right of the American Indian to high-quality education for his children. 

4. The right of the American Indian to high-quality technical and vocational education, 
so he can compete more realistically in the world of work on or off reservation. 

5. The right of the American Indian to technical assistance, provided by both federal 
and state government. Congress and the several states have enacted laws for the benefit 
of Indians, not to create jobs for administrators and their staffs! 

6. The right of the American Indian to participate in shaping Manpower Programs for 
Indians. This right to participate, however, has a corollary; the American Indian must 
be responsible for his actions if he wants to participate. 

7 . The right of the American Indian to make his views known and to speak out against 
the hardening attitudes of program administrators . 

8. The right of the American Indian to decent transportation and housing. 

9. The right of the American Indian to good health which is so important and crucial 
in finding and keeping a job. 

10. The right of the American Indian to be different. There is a rightful place in this 
country for the American Indian. 

No one group in our society is superior to any other group. This, however, is only so 
many words that take on meaning and significance only by the actions of program administra- 
tors. I need not remind you that by your actions ye shall be judged. 

In my view, this is the "Kansas City Treaty" and it should mark the beginning of a new 
era of cooperative relations between tribal councils and federal agencies involved. 

However, the critical question is can we, together, make the Kansas City Treaty work? 

I believe we can if we start emphasizing the positive as Will Rogers suggested. Let us 

agree there are problems and move forward. 

I urge program administrators to cease using "shortage of funds" as an excuse for their 
inaction. We'll never have enough money to do many things which need to be done. Decisions 
must be made as to how available funds can best be spent at any one moment. We'll keep 
the pressure on Congress to increase our appropriations so we can provide services to 
Indians. We must set priorities. Obviously some things are more important than others. 

Another thing we must do is re-examine our attitudes towards American Indians. We re 
too prone to measure, evaluate and judge American Indians against an unrealistic set of 
standards. It's often said the Indian needs to be thrifty, acquire habits of diligence and 
learn the importance of punctuality. Yet, in the Indian culture, Indians were indeed eco- 
nomical, hard working, possessed keen appreciation of time and demonstrated thrift. 

So we need to change our attitudes about American Indians. That s not all! We must 
eliminate the white tape - not the red tagie — of bureaucratic rules, regulations, procedures 
and guidelines! The spirit of this Kansas City Treaty is to make a determined effort using 
existing laws to promote the general well-being of American Indians. All too frequently 
these rules, regulations, procedures and guidelines have served as an impediment, a 
subterfuge, and a guise for denying American Indians their rightful benefit services. 

We need to involve tribal councils more fully in the planning of programs. Tribal councils 
have a most important responsibility in implementing what I choose to call the Kansas City 
Treaty. I would hope this conference marks an end to the Indians' "silent revolt. " They 
have listened too long to the promises of the white man without protest. Tribal councils 
must become more militant in advancing the Bill of Rights I have outlined. They must keep 
pressuring government agencies to carry out particular programs. Exerting pressures on 
Congress and program administrators is not un-American. The right to petition is guaranteed 


by the Constitution. It's like putting grease on the wheel to get it to revolve and to 
get the wagon moving forward . 

Responsible pressure forces administrators to act. This pressure may be 
exasperating to a staff, it may disturb them and even give them ulcers, but the 
important thing is that pressure generates positive action. 

The Kansas City Treaty is an effort to make government agencies and tribal 
councils more responsive. We need to root out parochialism which makes cooperation 
and sharing difficult if not impossible. It would be tragic, indeed, if we left this 
conference without firm commitment to responsible action. 

This conference can be an historic occasion, if it contributes to strengthening 
the responsible society. We build a responsible society by responding to human needs, 
to human problems, to human aspirations and to the needs of our fellow citizens. We, 
in fact, become responsible and strengthen the responsible society. (Applause.) 

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Dan, for a wonderful presentation. 

My good friend Charles Boyle wants a minute here. 

BOYLE: If you feel that employment is not a casual or incidental part of life in 
this modern world, then you should feel that continuance of these conferences will 
serve a useful purpose . With that assumption, I hope the Secretary of Labor will hear 
from you. 

I would like to be on record suggesting that the Second National Indian Manpower 
Conference consider Arizona as its host in 1968 . 


CHAIRMAN: I want to thank the Indian leaders, the representatives of 

government and of industry who have participated in this meeting. I want particularly 
to thank the Indian leaders for their plain spokeness at this meeting which I construe 
as an indication of confidence in us . Your contribution has been great and all members 
of government thank you. 





0 F 



uiu w-iflu wwi ' 4-1 ■ J w i 



The following directory represents the Master Roster of those attending the 
Kansas City, Missouri, February 15-16, 1967. 

The basic document from which this data is taken is the registration form 
completed by those or for those who attended the Conference. We cannot guarantee 
the accuracy of this data, but we have made every attempt to verify the data within 
the resources which are available to us . 

Each entry generally follows the following outline: 

Line 1 - Name of individual. 

Line 2 - Title or position. 

Line 3 - Tribe or Organization Represented. 
Line 4 - Street Address or P. O. Box Number. 
Line 5 - City, State and Zip Code 

The alphabetical arrangement of this directory is by surname. 

In some instances the resources available to us do not properly indicate how 
the individual named should be addressed (i.e., Mr., Mrs., or Miss). In all such 
cases, we have omitted any designation. 

This directory lists 462 names . 

- A - 

Mr. Clarence Acoya 
Executive Director 

New Mexico Commission on Indian Affairs 
8900 - 8th Street, N. W. 

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87114 

Mr. Clarence Adams 
Fort Belknap Reservation 
Dodson, Montana 59524 

Mr. W. J. Adams 
Assistant Director 
Department of Employment 
1701 Hervey 
Boise, Idaho 83705 

Mrs. Amelia Aitken 

Kootenai Tribal Council 
601 Oak Street, Box 467 
Bonner's Ferry, Idaho 83805 

Mr. Merle H. Alden 
Assistant Regional Administrator 
Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 
35 West 70th Street 
Kansas City, Missouri 64113 

Dr. William E. Amos 
Special Assistant for Human Resources 
Development, USES 
U. S. Department of Labor 
9235 Limestone Place 
College Park, Maryland 20740 

Mr. Bert Anderson 

Department of Housing and Urban Development 
3140 - 19th Street, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20010 

Mr. Mateo Aragon 

Spokesman and Chairman -Treasurer 

Pueblo Santa Domingo 

Box 1224 

Santa Domingo Pueblo, New Mexico 87052 

Mr. Percy Archambeau 
Tribal Chairman 
Yankton Sioux Tribal Council 
Wagner, South Dakota 57380 

Mr . John Archibald 
Kansas State Employment Service 
401 Topeka Boulevard 
Topeka, Kansas 66603 

Mr . Oscar Archiquette 
Vice Chairman 
United Tribe of Wisconsin 
Route #1 

Oneida, Wisconsin 54155 

Mr. Jarvis G. Arellano 
Minority Groups Representative 
California State Employment Service 
1135 Casilada Way 
Sacramento, California 95822 

Mr . Benny Atencio 
Tribal Director 

Office of Economic Opportunity 

Santa Domingo Pueblo, New Mexico 87052 

- B - 

Mr. Sam Baltazer 

Jicarilla Apache Tribal Representative 
Box 164 

Dulce, New Mexico 87528 

Mr . Gordon Bamberger 
Manager, Research Department 
Chamber of Commerce 
1030 Baltimore Avenue 
Kansas City, Missouri 64105 

Mr . Thurman Banks 

Member of Tribe 

Iowa Indians (Kansas -Nebraska) 

Box 42 

Albany, Oregon 97321 

Mr. George T. Barett 

Area Employment Assistance Officer 

Bureau of Indian Affairs 

870 Laurelhurst Place, N. E. 

Portland, Oregon 97232 

Mr. Llewellyn Barrackman 
Chairman, Ft. Mojave Tribe 
616 Merriman Avenue 
Needles, California 92363 

B - (Continued) 

Mr. Pete Barrious 
Tache Tribe 

Santa Rosa Indian Reservation 
1678 1 Jersey Avenue 
Lemoore, California 93245 

Mrs . Abigail J . Basile 
Counseling Supervisor 

Missouri Division of Employment Security 

1411 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Charles Bates 
Technical Assistant 
Field Representative 
University of South Dakota 
25 Sycamore, No. 10 
Vermillion, South Dakota 57069 

Mr. Robert B. Bates 
Equal Employment Opportunity Adviser 
U. S. Civil Service Commission 
1900 - E Street, N . W . 

Washington, D. C. 20006 

Betty Bearpaw 

Creek Tribal Council 
122 East 46th Street, North 
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74126 

Mr. Herbert A. Bechtold 

Indian Representative 

Office of Economic Opportunity 

10007 Raynor Road 

Silver Spring, Maryland 20901 

Mr. John Belindo 
Director, Washington Office 
National Congress of American Indians 
1346 Connecticut Avenue, N. W. 
Washington, D. C. 20036 

Mr . Harry J . W . Belvin 
Principal Chief 
Choctaw Nation 
302 West Willow 
Durant, Oklahoma 74701 

B - (Continued) 

Mr . Albin T . Benander 
Program Officer 

Department of Health, Education, and 

601 East 12th Street 
Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Russell R. Benedict 
Staff Assistant 
Rincon Band 

San Luiseno Mission Indians 
13530 Olive Tree Lane 
Poway, California 92064 

Mrs. Rose Benjamin 

Business Committeewoman 

Mille Lacs Reservation Business Committee 

Onamia, Minnesota 56359 

Mr. Robert L. Bennett 


Bureau of Indian Affairs 

U. S. Department of the Interior 

Washington, D. C. 20242 

Mrs. Eliot S. Berkley 
National Association of Intergroup 
Relations Officers 
1014 West 63rd Street 
Kansas City, Missouri 64113 

Mr. Willard E. Bill 
Tribal Chairman 
Duwamish Tribe 
8 12 - 12th Street, N . E . 

Auburn, Washington 98002 

Mr . Dean F . Blue 

Upper Sioux Reservation 
Granite Falls, Minnesota 56241 

Mr. Julian B. Blue Jacket 
Chief, Eastern Shawnee Tribe 
of Oklahoma Indians 
Route #1 

Wyandotte, Oklahoma 74370 



- B - (Continued) 

Mr. Harold Boyd 
University of Utah 
Bureau of Indian Services 
Box 200 

Salt Lake City, Utah 84112 

Mr. Ray Boyer 

Local Office Manager 

Minnesota State Employment Service 

912 Park Avenue 

Bemidji, Minnesota 56601 

Mr. Charles A. Boyle 

Arizona State Employment Service 
17 17 West Jefferson 
Phoenix, Arizona 85007 

Mr . Reginald Brien 
Tribal Chairman 
Chippewa Tribal Council 
'Belcourt, North Dakota 58316 

Mr. Floyd Bringing Good 
Employment Assistance Aide 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
1844 Seventh Avenue 
Oakland, California 94606 

Mr. John Brown, Jr. 

Tribal Councilman 

Navajo Cree 

Crystal, New Mexico 

(Mail Address: Fort Defiance, Arizona 

Mr, James Brun 
Council Representative 
Red Lake Band of Chippewa 
Red Lake, Minnesota 56671 

Mr. John B. Buckanaga 
MIAC - Minnesota 
261 Aurora 

St. Paul, Minnesota 55103 

Mr. Merritt W. Buffon 
Executive Director 

Kansas Employment Security Division 
401 Topeka Avenue 
Topeka, Kansas 66603 

- B - (Continued) 

Mr . Leonard C . Burch 
Tribal Chairman 
Southern Ute 
Ignacio, Colorado 81137 

Mr. Arthur W. Burchill 

Employment Security Department 
P. O. Box 367 

Olympia, Washington 98501 

Mr. Samuel M. Burt 
Special Assistant to the Director 
U. S. Employment Service . 
9704 Saxony Road 
Silver Spring, Maryland 20910 

Mr. William R. Bushman 
Chippewa Tribe 

Grand Pbrtage, Minnesota 55605 

Angela Butterfield 
Council Member 
Shoshone Bannock Tribes 
Star Route 

Ft. Hall, Idaho 83203 

- C - 

Mr. William Callaway 
Vice Chairman 
Cabazon Mission 

3q X ^ 

Coachella, California 92236 

Mr. Herman E. Cameron 

Bay Mills Indian Community 
State Commission on Indian Affairs 
Brimley, Michigan 49715 

Mr. Lindsay L. Campbell 
Office of Farm Labor Service 
7050 Eastern Avenue, N. W. 
Washington, D. C. 20012 





- C - (Continued) 

- C - (Continued) 

Mr. James F. Canan 

Billings Area Office 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
1810 Iris Lane 
Billings, Montana 59102 

Mr. John A. Clair 

Missouri Area Supervisor 

Neighborhood Youth Corps 

Room 3000, Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Robert Carlow 

Housing Authority 

Ogallala Sioux Tribe 

Pine Ridge, South Dakota 57770 

Mr. William R. Carmack 
Assistant Commissioner 
Community Services 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
1503 Audmar Drive 
McLean, Virginia 22101 

Mr. Charles E. Clark 
Area Director 

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission 
Room 105, Federal Office Building 
911 Walnut Street 
Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Duane Claymore 
Council Member 
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe 
Fort Yates, North Dakota 58538 

Mr. Leonard W. Carper 
Personnel Staffing Specialist 
Federal Aviation Agency 
601 East 12th Street 
Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Ross Carrell 
Commission Member 
Employment Security Commission 
1000 East Grand Avenue 
Des Moines, Iowa 50319 

Mr. Frank H. Cassell 

U. S. Employment Service, BES 
U. S. Department of Labor 
Room 5303, Main Labor Building 
Washington, D. C. 20210 

Mr. Victor A. Charlo 
Field Representative 
University of Utah 
Route 2, Evaro Road 
Missoula, Montana 59801 

Mr. Benjamin H. Cohen 
Manpower Specialist 
U. S. Employment Service, BES 
U. S. Department of Labor 
1730 M Street, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20210 

Mr. Frank Coleman 

Counseling and Special Services 
Nevada State Employment Service 
500 East Third Street 
Carson City, Nevada 89701 

Mr. C. E. Collins 
Regional Director 
U. S. Employment Service 
730 Brookmere Drive 
Edmonds, Washington 98020 

Mr. Fred Cometah 
Business Committeeman 
Ute Indian Tribe 
Fort Duchesne, Utah 84026 

Mr. Hollis Chough 
Arizona State University 
1306 East Oak 
Mesa, Arizona 85201 

Mr. J. W. Corbett 
Director, Employment Service 
1000 East Grand Avenue 
Des Moines, Iowa 50319 


- C - (Continued) 

Mr. William Corwin 
Employment Service Adviser, USES 
450 Golden Gate 

San Francisco, California 94102 
Mr. Earle Costello 

Community Employment Development 
Alaska State Employment Service 
Fourth and Harris Street 
Juneau, Alaska 99801 

Mr. L. N. Cotter 

Wyandotte Indian Tribe of Oklahoma 
Box 15 

Wyandotte, Oklahoma 74370 

Sarah Courtright 

Iowa Tribe (Kansas -Nebraska) 

22B, Lake Tapawingo 
Blue Springs, Missouri 64015 

Mr. Arnold Cox 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 
Representative of the Oglala Sioux Tribe 
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 57770 

Mrs. James Cox 

National Hall of Fame for Famous American 

3201 Shadybrook 

Midwest City, Oklahoma 73110 

Mr. James M. Cox 

Tribal Representative 

Comanche Indian Tribe of Oklahoma 

3201 Shadybrook 

Midwest City, Oklahoma 73110 

Mr. Z. Simpson Cox 

Gila River Indian Community 
Third Floor, Luhrs Tower 
45 West Jefferson 
Phoenix, Arizona 85003 

Mr. Carl Craig 

Arizona State Employment Service 
3022 East South Mountain Avenue 
Phoenix, Arizona 85040 

C - (Continued) 

Mr. Arthur Crawford 

Forest County Pottawatomie Reservation 
Crandon, Wisconsin 54520 

Mr . Earl Crawford 
Cherokee Tribe 
Tahlequah, Oklahoma 74464 

Mr. Charles S. Crook, Jr. 


Services to Minority Groups 
Iowa State Employment Commission 
4001 Wakonda Parkway 
Des Moines, Iowa 503 15 

Mr. Vernon W. Crow 

Seneca Cyauga 
1621 - D, N. E. 

Miami, Oklahoma 74354 

Mr . Bernard Cummins 

Crow Tribe Community Action Program 
Crow Agency, Montana 59022 

Mr . William J . Cuny 
University of South Dakota 
Box 293 

Vermillion, South Dakota 57069 

Mr. George E. Curtis 
Chippewa Tribe 
117 False Street 
L'Anse, Michigan 49946 

-D - 

Mr. T. E. Daly 

Arizona State Employment Service 
45 10 North Twelfth Drive 
Phoenix, Arizona 85013 

Patricia Damon 
Navajo Tribe 

Window Rock, Arizona 86515 




J'JLi !JJIlMJliaaH gB BUU^Ii.l'JUl.J-3gR 


D - (Continued) 

D - (Continued) 

Mr . Ed Darby 
Navajo Tribe 
P. O. Box 266 

Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

Lorraine Doebbler 
Alternate Councilwoman 
Clallam Tribe 
316 East Ninth 

Port Angeles, Washington 98362 

Mr. Dave Davis 

Leech Lake Reservation 
Cass Lake, Minnesota 56633 

Mr. Jack DeChant 

Office of Information 

Bureau of Employment Security 

U. S. Department of Labor 

14th and Constitution Avenue, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20210 

Mr. Sam Deloria 
Assistant Director 

University of South Dakota 
Vermillion, South Dakota 57770 

Mr. Vine Deloria 
Executive Director 

National Congress of American Indians 
1450 Pennsylvania Street 
Denver, Colorado 80203 

Mr. Joe Demontiney 
Chairman, Business Committee 
Chippewa Cree Tribe 
Rocky Boy Route 
Box Elder, Montana 59521 

Mr. Tom W. Dennison 
Kaw Indian Tribe 
R. R. #3 

Ponca City, Oklahoma 74601 

Mr. William Diggs 
Program Officer 

Idaho Department of Employment 
3209 Crane Creek Road 
Boise, Idaho 83702 

Mr. Joe Domingo 
Navajo Tribe 

Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

Mr. Frank Ducheneaux 

Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe 
Eagle Butte, South Dakota 57625 

Mr. Franklin Ducheneaux 
Civil Rights Coordinator, OEO 
1027 Forest, Apt. 10 
Kansas City, Kansas 66106 

Mr. Peter Du Fault 

Minnesota Chippewa Tribe 
709 Larch Street 
Cloquet, Minnesota 55720 

- E - 

Mrs. Jean Edwards 

Director of Information and Referral 

Oklahomans for Indian Opportunity 

Office of Economic Opportunity 

210 East Kittyhawk 

Midwest City, Oklahoma 73110 

Mr. K. D. Edwards 


Comanche Tribe 

210 East Kittyhawk 

Midwest City, Oklahoma 73110 

Mr. Rodney J. Edwards 
Attorney - At -Law 
Red Lake Band of Chippewa 
400 Providence Building 
Duluth, Minnesota 55802 


- E - (Continued) 

Mr. John E. Ekeberg 
Regional Director 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 
Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Robert Elliott 

Local Office Manager 

Wyoming State Employment Service 

P. O. Box 1610 

Riverton, Wyoming 82501 

Mr. James Ely 
Ronan Councilman 
Flathead Tribal Council 
Ronan, Montana 59864 

Mr. Charles E. Emery 

Community Action Program 

Crow Creek & Lower Brule Sioux Tribes 

Ft. Thompson, South Dakota 57339 

Mr. Austin Engel 
Executive Director 
N. D. Indian Affairs Commission 
202-1/2 North Third 
Bismarck, North Dakota 58502 

Mr . Frank Estes 
Director of Program Development 
University of South Dakota 
201 High Street 

Vermillion, South Dakota 57069 

Mr. Fred L. Eubeler 
Graflex, Inc. 

1030 Fifteenth Street, N. W. 
Washington, D. C. 20005 

Mr. Ben G. Evans 
Chief of Placement Commission 
Montana State Employment Service 
Helena, Montana 59601 

- F - 

Mr. Carl Fauver 
Bureau of Indian Services 
University of Utah 
Salt Lake City, Utah 84112 

- F - (Continued) 

Mr. Fred Featherstone, Jr. 

Employment Service Adviser 
Bureau of Employment Security, USES 
9259 Nieman Road 
Overland Park, Kansas 66214 

Mr. William E. Finale 
Deputy Assistant Commissioner 
Community Services 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
5332 - 28th Street, N . W . 

Washington, D. C. 20015 

Mr. Jess Fletcher 

State Employment Service 

UCC Building 

Helena, Montana 59601 

Mr. Adrian Foote 
Vice Chairman 
Tribal Council 

Ft. Berthold, New Town, North Dakota 
Raub, North Dakota 58774 

Mr. Erin Forrest 

Business Manager, X L Indian Reservation 
President, California Inter-Tribal Council, and 
Chairman of Governor's Interstate Indian 
Box 763 

Alturas, California 96101 

Miss Lillian Frank 
Secretary -Treasurer 
Burns Paiute Indian Colony 
141 North Date 
Burns, Oregon 97720 

Mr. Thomas Fredericks 
OEO Director 
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe 
Ft. Yates, North Dakota 58538 

Mr. Francis Freemont, Jr. 

Business Manager 
Omaha Tribe of Nebraska 
Macy, Nebraska 68039 

Mr. Ben Friday, Sr. 

Member of Business Council 
Arapahoe Business Council 
St. Stephens, Wyoming 82524 


F - (Continued) 

- G - (Continued) 

Mr. Carl F. Fryhling 

State Employment Security Bureau 
207 Broadway 

Bismarck, North Dakota 58502 

Mr . Clay Gibson 
Tribal Chairman 

Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians 
Route 7 

Philadelphia, Mississippi 39350 

Mr. William G. Funk 
Personnel Manager 
Sandia Corporation 
Albuquerque, New Mexico 87 107 

- G - 

Mr. RembertA. Gaddy 

U. S. Department of Justice 
4229 East Capitol Street, N. E. 
Washington, D. C. 20002 

Mr. Wallace Galluzzi 
Pri ncipal 
Haskell Institute 
Lawrence, Kansas 66044 

Mr. Levi George 
Labor Department Representative 
Klickitat Tribal Council 
Goldendale, Washington 98620 

Mr . Oswald C . George 
Tribal Vice Chairman 
Coeur d'Alene Tribe 
Route 1 

Plummer, Idaho 83851 

| Rosemary George 

Education Specialist 
Department of Health, Education and 

Washington, D. C. 20201 

Mr. Forrest Gerard 
Congressional Liaison Representative 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
12701 Kembridge Drive 
Bowie, Maryland 20715 

Mr. Alfred W. Gilpin 

Omaha Tribe of Nebraska 
Macy, Nebraska 68039 

Mr. Oscar Gjernes 
Acting Chief 

Division of Manpower Services 
Bureau of Employment Security, USES 
U. S. Department of Labor 
Washington, D. C. 20210 

Mr. James L. Gohlston 
Employment Service Adviser, BES 
2200 Federal Office Building 
911 Walnut Street 
Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Dorothy Gonzales 

Council Member, Rincon Reservation 
P. O. Box 321 
Pauma, California 92061 
(Pauma Valley, California 92061) 

Mr. Lewis Goodhouse 

Devils Lake Sioux Tribe 

Fort Totten, North Dakota 58335 

Mr. Tom Goslin 
Kickapoo Tribe 
P. O. Box 52 
Mercier, Kansas 66511 

Mr. Jay Gould 
Vice Chairman 
Colorado Indian Tribes 
P. O. Box 843 
Parker, Arizona 85344 

Mr. Milton Graf 

Arizona State Employment Service 
8418 East Roanoke 
Scottsdale, Arizona 85257 



G - (Continued) 

- H - (Continued) 

Mr. Arthur Grant 
Minority Group Services Officer 
Nevada State Employment Service 
637 Veronica 

North Las Vegas, Nevada 89101 

Mr. Royce Graves 

Red Lake Band Tribal Council 
Chippewa Tribe 
Box 262 

Red Lake, Minnesota 56671 
Wanda Gray 

Head of Economics Department 
Haskell Institute 
80 Haskell Grounds 
Lawrence, Kansas 66044 

Mr. Cecil R. Green 

Iowa General Tribal Council 
Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska 
7329 Winnell Way 
Ft. Worth, Texas 76118 

Mrs. Alvina Greybear 
Council Member 
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe 
Fort Yates, North Dakota 58538 

Pat Gutierreaz 


Santa Clara Pueblo 

Espdtiola, New Mexico 87532 

- H - 

Mr . Neal Hadsell 
Regional Director, USES 
Room 320, Equitable Building 
Seventeenth and Stout Streets 
Denver, Colorado 80202 

Mr. David S. Hall 
Chairman, Board of Trustees 
Umatilla Tribes 
Route #1, Box 5 1 
Adams, Oregon 97810 

Miss Sigrid Ann Haldorson 
Employment Service Adviser, BES 
Room 2200, Federal Office Building 
911 Walnut Street 
Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Jim Hamilton 
Assistant Director 
Community Action Program 
Omaha Tribe 
Macy, Nebraska 68039 

Mr. Homer Hand 

State Chief of Programs 

Wyoming State Employment Service 

P. O. Box 760 

Casper, Wyoming 82601 

Mr. Merwin Hans 

Branch of Training Needs Development and 

Bureau of Employment Security 
U.S. Department of Labor 
Room 620, 1730 M Street, N. W. 
Washington, D. C. 20036 

Mr . Virgil N . Harrington 
Area Director 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
221 S-12 Street 
Muskogee, Oklahoma 74401 

Mr. George W. Harris 


Sac and Fox Tribe 

832 North Warren 

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73107 

Mrs. Mabel Harris 

Social Worker, OEO Indian Programs 

Sac and Fox of Oklahoma 

832 North Warren 

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73107 

Mr. Robert N. Harris 
Shoshone Tribe 
Morton, Wyoming 82522 

Mr. James H. Hart 

U. S. Civil Service Commission 

Federal Office Building 

601 East 12th Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 


H - (Continued) 

Mr. Lawrence H. Hart 

Cheyenne -Arapaho Tribes of Oklahoma 
Box 38 

Concho, Oklahoma 73022 

Mr. Ned A. Hatathli 

Resources Division 
Navajo Tribe 

Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

Mr. W. Wade Head 
Area Director 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Box 7007 

Phoenix, Arizona 850 1 1 

Mr. Jim Hena 
Technical Assistant 
Indian Community Action Project 
Arizona State University 
Tempe, Arizona 85281 

Mr. A1 Henry 


Chippewa Cree 

Box Elder, Montana 59521 

Mabel Hesuse 
Navajo Tribe 

Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

Selma Hoffmann 

Head of Business Department 

Haskell Institute 

2008 Hillview Drive 

Lawrence, Kansas 66044 

Mr . Edward Holinday 
Councilman - Representative 
Red Lake Band of Chippewa Tribe 
Box 133 

Redby, Minnesota 56670 

Mr. Norman Hollow 
Fort Peck 
Box 156 

Brockton, Montana 59213 

- H - (Continued) 

Mr. Martin N. B. Holm 
Area Director 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
1220 North Third Street 
Aberdeen, South Dakota 57401 

Mr. Lewis B. Holt 
Special Representative 
Department of Employment 
3 17 Main Street 
Boise, Idaho 83707 

Mr. Dorance Horseman 

Fort Belknap Agency 
Harlem, Montana 59526 

Mr. Louis A. Houff 
MD - Specialist 
Department of Commerce 
15012 Timberlake Drive 
Silver Spring, Maryland 20904 

Mr . Henry Hough 

Director of Research 

National Congress of American Indians 

1450 Pennsylvania Street 

Denver, Colorado 80203 

Dr. Peter T. Hountras 
Regional Consultant 
University of North Dakota 
802 Boyd Drive 

Grand Forks, North Dakota 58201 

Mr. Lloyd L. House 
State Representative 

Navajo Tribe and Arizona State Legislature 
301 Shonto Boulevard 
Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

Mr. Robert L. Hunter 
Executive Director 
Inter -Tribal Council of Nevada 
83 Reservation Road 
Reno, Nevada 89502 

Mr. Donald G. Huntley 
District Manager 

Wisconsin State Employment Service 

1008 Redwood Drive 

Green Bay, Wisconsin 54304 


- J - (Continued) 

Mr. Pete Jackson 
Hoopa Valley Tribe 
Box 681 

Hoopa Valley, California 96139 

Mr. Robert Jackson 
Minority Group Representative 
Employment Security Department 
2043 - 23rd Avenue, East 
Seattle, Washington 98102 

Mr. Vernon Jackson 
Representative of Confederated Tribes 
P. O. Box 488 

Warm Springs, Oregon 97761 

Mr. Vernon Jake 

Chairman, Kaibab Paiute Tribe 

Box 323 

Fredonia, Arizona 86022 
Mr. Alvin James 

Representative, Carson Indian Colony 
Nevada State Indian Affairs Commission 
233 Arrowhead Drive 
Carson City, Nevada 89701 

Mrs. Lloyd James 

Santee Sioux Tribe 
Route 2 

Niobrara, Nebraska 68760 

Mr. Lloyd W. James 

Santee Sioux Tribal Council 
Route 2 

Niobrara, Nebraska 68760 

Mr. Overton James 


Chickasaw Nation 

6033 Glencove Place 

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73132 

Mr. Jack P. Jayne 

Area Employment Assistance Officer 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Muskogee Area Office 
1502 Houston 

Muskogee, Oklahoma 74401 

Dr . Keith Jewitt 
Dean of Academic Affairs 
Black Hills State College 
740 King 

Spearfish, South Dakota 57783 

Mr. Robert B. Jim 
Tribal Council Member 
Yakima Nation 
Box 367 

Toppenish, Washington 98948 

Mr. Arthur Johnson 
Secretary, Goshute Business Council 
(Representing Confederated Tribes, 

Goshute Indian Reservation, as 
Secretary -Treasurer, of Ibapah, 

Utah 84034) 

c/o Skull Valley Reservation 
Grantsville, Utah 84029 

Mr. Frank E. Johnson 
Regional Administrator 
Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 
301 Equitable Building 
Denver, Colorado 80202 

Mr. Joseph W. Johnson 
District Representative 
Red Lake Tribal Council 
Red Lake, Minnesota 56671 

Mr. Neal A. Johnson 

Information Officer 

U. S. Department of Labor 

Room 2113, Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Otto S. Johnson 
Deputy Commissioner 
Employment Security Department 
P. O. Box 367 

Olympia, Washington 98501 

Mr. Calvin Jones, Jr. 

Council Member 

Office of Economic Opportunity Commission 
Rosebud Sioux Tribal Council 
Mission, South Dakota 57555 


- J - (Continued) 

Mr . Roger A . Jourdain 

Red Lake Tribal Council 
Red Lake, Minnesota 56671 

Mr . Edgar Joy 
Director, SBDC 
Community Action Program 
Eagle Butte, South Dakota 57625 

Mr . Benedict Jozhe 
Fort Sill Apache Tribe 
Box 308 

Apache, Oklahoma 73006 

Mr . Walter Judd 
OEO Supervisor 

Oregon State Department of Employment 
1140 Thirteenth Street, N. E. 

Salem, Oregon 97303 

- K - 

Mr. Gerald Kane 

Owens Valley Paiute Shoshone Band 
Route 1, Box 169 
Bishop, California 93514 

Mr. Sam Kash Kash 

Umatilla Tribal Council 
Route 1, Box 197 
Pendleton, Oregon 97801 

Col . Alvin A . Katt 
Manpower and Development 
Community Action Program 
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 57770 

Mr . Ralph Keen 
University of Utah 
3367 South 13th East 
Salt Lake City, Utah 84106 

Mr. Hobart Keith 

Chairman, Housing Authority 

Oglala Sioux Tribe 

Pine Ridge, South Dakota 57770 

- K - (Continued) 

Dr. William H. Kelly 
Professor of Anthropology 
University of Arizona 
5837 East Hawthorne 
Tucson, Arizona 85711 

Mr . Solomon N . Kent 
Chief and Chairman, Tribal Council 
Iowa Indian Tribe of Oklahoma 
2504 Northwest 35th Street 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73112 

Mr. George Kester 
Assistant Regional Representative 
Vocational Rehabilitation Administration 
Department of Health, Education, and 

45 15 West 54th Street Terrace 
Shawnee Mission, Kansas 66205 

Mrs. Florence L. Kinley 
Lummi Indian Tribe 
Box 77 

Marietta, Washington 98268 

Mr. Forrest L. Kinley 
Lummi Indian Tribe 
OEO Director 
Box 77 

Marietta, Washington 98268 

Mr. Merle S. Kinvig 
Employment Service Director 
State Office Operations 
Minnesota State Employment Service 
340 Summit Avenue 
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55424 

Harriet Kirn 
Comm ittee woman 
Ft. Peck Tribes 
Poplar, Montana 59255 

Mr. Gordon E. Kitto 
Treasurer, Santee Sioux Tribe 
c/o Winnebago Indian Agency 
Winnebago, Nebraska 68071 

Mr. Houston Klinekohl 
Apache Tribe 
Route 2 

Apache, Oklahoma 73006 


- K - (Continued) 

Mr . Walter J . Knodel 

U. S. Department of the Interior 

Bureau of Indian Affairs 

6713 - 26th Street 

North Arlington, Virginia 22207 

Gail Koehnke 

Supervisor, Navajo Tribe 
Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

Mr. Wellington D. Kohl 
Employment Service Adviser, and 
Chief, Services to Minorities 
U. S. Department of Labor 
Bureau of Employment Security, USES 
1730 M Street, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20024 

Mr. Emanuel L. Kohn 
Regional Director 
U. S. Employment Service 
7435 Tripp 

Skokie, Illinois 60076 

Mr. Willard Kopke 
Field Representative 
University of South Dakota 
Box 85, University Exchange 
Vermillion, South Dakota 57069 

Dr. Daniel H. Kruger 

Professor of Industrial Relations 

School of Business and Industrial Relations 

Michigan State University 

225 South Kedzie Building 

East Lansing, Michigan 48823 

- L - 

Mr. Willard LaFromboise 
Tribal Chairman 
Sissiton Wahpeton Tribe 
(Sissiton, S. D.) 

Veblen, South Dakota 57270 

Mr. Sylvester LaR®»k©«> 

Tribal Council Member 
Lower Brule Sioux Tribal Council 
Lower Brule, South Dakota 57548 

- L - (Continued) 

Anona LaRonge 

Lac Courte Oreilles Reservation 
Route 2 

Hayward, Wisconsin 54843 

Mr. Gary Larsen 
Department of Defense 
3206 East 7800 South 
Salt Lake City, Utah 84121 

Mr. Robert F. Lavato 
Pala Indian Reservation 
P. O. Box 33 
Pala, California 92059 

Mr. Sidney Lawrence 
Director, JCRB 

(Jewish Community Relations Bureau) 
and National Association of Intergroup 
Relations Officers 
1211 Walnut Street 
Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Dwaine M. LeBeau 
Director, C. A. P. 

Rosebud Sioux Tribe 
Rosebud, South Dakota 57570 

Mrs. Rita A. LeBeau 
Rosebud Sioux Tribe 
Rosebud, South Dakota 57570 

Mr. Morris Leonard 
State Director 

Oklahoma State Employment Service 

Will Rogers Building 

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73105 

Mr. Alexander Lewis, Sr. 

Governor, Pima Maricopa 
Gila River Indian Community 
Route 1, Box 865 
Laveen, Arizona 85339 

Mr. Claude Lewis 

Vice Chairman 

Fort Mojave Tribe 

600 Merriman 

Needles, California 92363 

Mr. Fitz Lewis 
Chickasaw Tribe 
Madill, Oklahoma 73446 


- L - (Continued) 

Mr. Milton Lewis 
Conciliation Specialist 
U. S. Department of Justice 
Community Relations Se’ vice 
5 16 Barcia 

St. Louis, Missouri 63119 

Mr. Robert Lewis 
Assistant Director 
White Earth C. A. P. 

White Earth, Minnesota 56591 

Mr. Robert E. Lewis 
Governor of Zuni Pueblo 
Zuni Tribe 

Zuni, New Mexico 87327 

Mr. Warren Lincoln 
Vice Chairman 

Covelo Indian Community Council 
Round Valley Reservation 
Route 1, Box 113 
Covelo, California 95428 

Mr. Harry Littlebird 
Northern Cheyenne Tribal Council 
Lame Deer, Montana 59043 

Mr. August Little Soldier 

Three Affiliated Tribes 

New Town, North Dakota 58763 

Mr. T. A. Lockhart 

Equal Employment Officer 

Compliance and Security Division 

Federal Aviation Agency 

601 East 12th Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Amos Lone Hill 

Tribal Member 

Ogalala Sioux Tribe 

Pine Ridge Indian Reservation 

Pine Ridge, South Dakota 57770 

Mr. Andrew L&pez 
Staff Technician and Minority Group 

Employment Commission of New Mexico 
1226 Cerrillos Road, S. W. 

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87105 

- L - (Continued) 

Mr. Delfin Lovato 
Northern Pueblos 

San Juan Pueblo, New Mexico 87566 

Mr. Nelson Lupe, Sr. 
Arizona State Employment Service 
Box 355 

Whiteriver, Arizona 85941 

Mr. Ronnie Lupe 
White Mountain Apaches 
Box 355 

Whiteriver, Arizona 85941 

Mr. Frank Luther 
Council Member 
Navajo Tribe 

Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

- Me - 

Mr. J. Maurice McCabe 
Director of Administration 
Navajo Tribe 

Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

Mr. Merle McCloud 
Nisqually Indian Tribe 
Route 1, Box 384 
Nisqually, Washington 98504 

Mr. Norvin McCord 


Fort Mojave Tribe 

413 North K Street 

Needles, California 92363 

Mr. T. D. McCormick 

Regional Representative for Adult Education 

U. S. Office of Education 

601 East 12th Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Peter McGeshick, Jr. 

Mole Tribe 

Crandon, Wisconsin 54520 


-Me - (Continued) 

Mr. W. E. ”Dode” McIntosh 
Principal Chief 
Creek Nation 
111 East Independence 
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74106 

Bertha Mcjoe 

Muckle shoot Reservation 
14635 S. E. 368th Street 
Auburn, Washington 98002 

Mr. Jim McKay 
Field Representative 
Business and Industrial Services 
160 State Office Building 
St. Paul, Minnesota 55101 

Lucian McKinney 
Kickapoo Tribe 
Route 1 

Powhattan, Kansas 66527 

- M - 

Mr . Peter MacDonald 
Executive Director, ONEO 
Navajo Tribe 
P. O. Box 287 

Fort Defiance, Arizona 86504 

Mr. Robert Mackett 
Tribal Chairman 
Papago Tribe 
Box 277 

Sells, Arizona 85634 

Mr. Harold L. Mahan 

Regional Director, OFLS 

Room 2200, Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Kalervo Makela 
Farm Labor Service 
Bureau of Employment Security 
7251 Lowell Avenue 
Overland Park, Kansas 66204 

M - (Continued) 

Mr. Byron S. Mallott 
Representative at Large 
Council of Five Chiefs - Yakutal 
327 Highland Drive 
Juneau, Alaska 99801 

Mr. Vern D. Malolepszy 
State Supervisor of Applicant Services 
Nebraska Division of Employment 
7330 South Wedgewood Drive 
Lincoln, Nebraska 685 10 

Mr. Arthur T. Manning 


Sho shone Paiute 

Box 117 

Owyhee, Nevada 89832 

Mr. Quentin Markishtum 


Makah Tribe 

Neah Bay, Washington 98357 

Mr. Edwin Martin 

Stockbridge Munsee 
Bowler, Wisconsin 54416 

Mr . Clarence Martinez 

Picuris Reservation 
P. O. Box 228 

Penasco, New Mexico 87553 

Mr. Thomas Mason 
NYC Director 

Great Lakes Inter Tribal Council 
Bowler, Wisconsin 54416 

Mr. Carroll Mickey 

Director, Institute of Indian Studies 

University of South Dakota 

1108 Valley View 

Vermillion, South Dakota 57069 

Mr. Maurice F. Miera 
Minority Group Representative 
Regional Office 

Bureau of Employment Security 
64 1 Downing Street 
Denver, Colorado 802 18 




- M - (Continued) 

- M - (Continued) 

Mr. Arvid Miller 
CAP Director - OEO 
Route 1 

Bowler, Wisconsin 54416 

Mr. Samson Miller 
Vice Chairman 
Mescalero Apache Tribe 
P. O. Box 11 

Mescalero, New Mexico 88340 

Mr.- Vernon J. Miller 

Ft. Independence Paiute Tribe 
Ft. Independence Indian Reservation 
F. O. Box 192 

Independence, California 93526 

Mr. Glen Mitchell 

Assistant Director 

Office of Special Activities 

Bureau of Apprenticeship & Training 

74 14 Birch Avenue 

Takoma Park, Maryland 20012 

Helen Mitchell 

Representing the Quinault Tribe 
National Congress of American Indians 
Route 1, Box 189 
Oakville, Washington 98568 

Miss Octa Mitchell 
Training Specialist 

OEO - Indian Community Action Project 
300-1/2 Forest 

Vermillion, South Dakota 57069 

Mr. Henry Montague, Sr. 

President, Tribal Council 
Quechan Tribal Council 
P. O. Box 184 

Winter Haven, California 92283 

Mr. Domingo Montoya 

All Indian Public Council 
P. O. Box 262 

Bernalillo, New Mexico 87004 

Mr. Harold K. Montross 

Office of Employment Service Activities 
U.S. Employment Service 
Bureau of Employment Security, USDL 
1730 M Street, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20036 

Mr. Charles Moon 
Tribal Chairman 
Hoopa Valley Tribe 
Box 113 

Hoopa, California 95546 

Mr. Charles E. Mooney 

Regional Economist 

Bureau of Employment Security, USDL 

Room 2200, Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. William J. Moore 

Assistant Administrator 

Bureau of Apprenticeship & Training 

U. S. Department of Labor 

Washington, D. C. 20210 

Mr. William Morigeau 
Flathead Tribe 
Poison, Montana 59860 

Mr. Howard W. Morley 
Contractor Relations Specialist 
Department of Defense 
1136 Washington Avenue 
St. Louis, Missouri 63101 

Mrs. Cheryl Moses 

Iowa Employment Security Commission 

2404 Terrace Road 

Des Moines, Iowa 50312 

Mr. Lee Motah 

Tribal Councilman 

Comanche Tribe 

3209 South Dumas Lane 

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73119 

Mr . J . Kelly Mudd 
Program Officer, MDTA, HEW 
4505 Plymouth Court 
Kansas City, Missouri 64110 



- N - 

Mr . Raymond Nakai 
Navajo Tribe 
Box 186 

Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

Dr . John Neihardt 

Retired Professor 

University of Missouri at Columbia 

Route 7, Skyrion 

Columbia, Missouri 65201 

Mr . Warren Nevers 
Washoe Tribal Council 
Star Route 1, Box 2050 
Carson City, Nevada 89701 

Mrs. Vynola Newkumet 


Caddo Tribe 

729 Elmwood Drive 

Norman, Oklahoma 73069 

Mr. Wallace J. Newman 
Tribal Representative 
Mission Creek Indian Reservation 
15330 Janine Drive, East 
Whittier, California 90603 

Mr. Owen Nielson 
Farm Placement Supervisor and 
Indian Program 

Employment Security Department 
607 North Fourth Street 
Aberdeen, South Dakota 57401 

- O - 

Bernice Ogden 

Kickapoo Tribal Representative 
1613 Spruce 

Kansas City, Missouri 64127 

Linda Ogden 
Kickapoo Tribe 
1613 Spruce 

Kansas City, Missouri 64127 

- O - (Continued) 

Mr. Earl Old Person 
Tribal Chairman 
Blackfeet Tribe 
Browning, Montana 594 17 

Mr. Forest D. Olds 

Miami Tribe of Oklahoma 
Route 2 

Miami, Oklahoma 74354 

Mr. Edward Olivas 

Sanf'i Ynez Reservation 

6916 Valjean Street 

Van Nuys, California 91406 

Mr. William R. Omen 
Council Representative 
Red Lake Band, Tribal Council 
Red Lake, Minnesota 5667 1 

Mr. Roberto Ornelas 
Department of Defense 
Community Relations Specialist 
Contracts Compliance Division 
2320 LaBranch, P. O. Box 61167 
Houston, Texas 77061 

Mr. Samuel Osborne 

Pawnee Tribal Business Council 
Route 1 

Pawnee, Oklahoma 74058 

Laura Mae Osceola 
Secretary -Treasurer 
Seminole Tribe of Florida 
3301 N. W. 63rd Avenue 
Hollywood, Florida 33024 

Mr. Harry Owhi 
Executive Director 
Culville Tribe 
609 Ninth Street 
Coulee, Washington 99115 




- P - 

- P - (Continued) 

Mr. Orval D. Packard 

Office of Farm Labor Service 
1901 Hull Road 
Vienna, Virginia 22180 

Mr. Donald Page 

Acting Chief of Employment Service 
California State Employment State Office 
800 Capital Mall 
Sacramento, California 95814 

Mr. Frank Papse 

Shoshone and Bannock Tribal Council 
Fort Hall, Idaho 83203 

Mr. Jim Par cell 
Vice Chairman 
Lajolla Reservation 
949 North Cedar 
Escondido, California 92025 

Mr. Claude Parker 

Eastern Band, Cherokees 
Cherokee, North Carolina 287 19 

Mr. Mose Parris 
Tribal Affairs Officer 
Division of Indian Health 
U. S. Public Health Service 
4110 North 16th Street 
Phoenix, Arizona 85041 

Mr. Cferald R. Parrish 
Bureau of Employment Security 
861 Keeler Avenue 
Berkeley, California 94708 

Mr. Stanley Partiamo 
Representing the Governor of 
the Pueblo of Acorn a 
P. O. Box 67 

San Fidel, New Mexico 87049 

Mr. Bruce Patrick 
Regional OEO Office 
Job Corps (Kansas City) 

11699 East Dakota Avenue 
Aurora, Colorado 80010 

Mary Belle Patterson 
Kickapoo Tribe 
2722 Brighton 

Kansas City, Missouri 64127 

Mr. Harry Peltier 
CAP Director 

Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians 
Box 37 

Dunseith, North Dakota 58329 

Dr. C. P. Penoy 
Employment Counselor 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Concho Agency 
704 Neal Circle 
El Reno, Oklahoma 73036 

Mr. Ralph Perdue 
Board Member, OEO 
Box 1653 

Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 

Mr. Alton Peso 

Mescalero Apache Tribe 
Box 72 

Mescalero, New Mexico 88340 

Mr. Victor Phillips 
Assistant to Administrator, ASCS 
U. S. Department of Agriculture 
6522 - 6th Street, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20012 

Mr. Earl Boyd Pierce 
General Counsel - Cherokee Nation 
1008 Barnes Building 
Muskogee, Oklahoma 74401 

Mr. Ray Pierre 
Tribal Chairman 
Kalispel Tribe 
Cusick, Washington 99119 

Frances Pipestem 

Otoe and Missouri Tribe 
Box 35 

Chilocco, Oklahoma 74635 

- P - (Continued) 

-Q - 

Mr. Paul Pitts 

Osage Tribe of Oklahoma 
P. O. Box 178 

Pawhuska, Oklahoma 74056 

Mr. Roy Plum lee 

Assistant Chief 

Farm Labor Service 

New Mexico State Employment Service 

P. O. Box 1928 

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87 103 

Mr. Ed Plummer 
Adm . of Lands Division 
Navajo Tribe 

Window Rock, Arizona 86515 

Mr. J. F. Ponder 

Employment Service Adviser 

Bureau of Employment Security 

U. S. Department of Labor 

Room 2200, Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Harrison Porter 
Tribal Vice Chairman 
San Carlos Apache Tribe 
Box 0 

San Carlos, Arizona 85550 

Mr. Frank A. Potter 

Farm Labor Service 

Bureau of Employment Security 

U. S. Department of Labor 

14th and Constitution Avenue, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20210 

Mr. James E. Poynton 
Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 
1730 M Street, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20036 

Mr. Benedict Quigno 

Saginaw Chippewa Tribe of Michigan 
and Michigan State Commission on 
Indian Affairs 
7469 East Broadway 
Mt. Pleasant, Michigan 48858 

Mr. Guy Quetone 
Kiowa Indian Tribe 
Route 3 

Carnegie, Oklahoma 73015 

- R - 

Dr. E. S. Rabeau 

Division of Indian Health 
U. S. Public Health Service 
7915 Eastern Avenue 
Silver Spring, Maryland 20910 

Mr. Jerry Rambler 

San Carlos Apache Tribe 
P. O. Box 265 

San Carlos, Arizona 85550 

Mr. Walter Rapp 
Chief of Operations 
Oklahoma State Employment Service 
213 Will Rogers Building 
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73105 

Mr. Charles Rausch 
Representative, Graflex, Inc. 
Monroe Avenue 
Rochester , New York 14607 

Mr. Ashley Rave 

Nebraska Winnebago Tribe 
Winnebago, Nebraska 68071 

Mr. Edison Real Bird 

Crow Tribal Council 
P. O. Box 364 

Crow Agency, Montana 59022 



- R - (Continued) 

- R - (Continued 

Mr. Bradley Reardon 
Employment Service Adviser 
Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 
Room 5217, Main Labor Building 
Washington, D. C. 20210 

Mr. Ross Reese 

Office of Operations 

Neighborhood Youth Corps 

14th and Constitution Avenue, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20210 

Mrs. Harvey S. Rhodd 
Kickapoo Tribe 
900 Kansas Avenue 
Kansas City, Kansas 66105 

Mr. Harvey S. Rhodd 
Kickapoo Tribe 
900 Kansas Avenue 
Kansas City, Kansas 66105 

Mr. James A. Rhodd 
Acting Chairman 
Iowa Tribe, Kansas -Nebraska 
Route 1 

Hiawatha, Kansas 66434 

Mr. Frederick A. Ricci 

Area and District Planning Staff 

Economic Development Administration 

73 16 Hogarth Street 

North Springfield, Virginia 22151 

Mr. E. W. Ridgway 
State Employment Security Director 
607 North Fourth Street 
Aberdeen, South Dakota 57401 

Mr. Harry Ritchie 
Tribal Coordinator 
Forest County Potawatomies 
Laona, Wisconsin 54541 

Mr . Reuben Robertson 
Tribal Council Member 
Flandreau Santee Sioux 
Flandreau, South Dakota 57028 

Mrs . Georgeann Robinson 
National Vice President 
National Congress of American Indians 
1406 Prairie Heights Drive 
Bartlesville, Oklahoma 74003 

Mr. Henry N. Rodriguez 
Indian Community Action Project 
LouiseKb Tribe 
P.O.Box 281 

Pauma Valley, California 92061 
Mr. H. E. Rogers 

Missouri Division of Employment Security 
1409 East High 

Kansas City, Missouri 64133 

Mr. Lindsey Rogers 

Yarington Paiute Tribe 
Box 295 

Yarington, Nevada 89447 

Mr. Paul Rogers 

Cherokee Tribe 

Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 74434 

Mr. Will Rogers, Jr. 


Bureau of Indian Affairs 
9538 Brighton Ways 
Beverly Hills, California 90210 
(or Tubac, California) 

Mr. Arthur C. Rolette 

Absentee Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma 
Route 2 

Shawnee, Oklahoma 74801 

Mr. Calvin Rondell 

South Dakota Employment Service 
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 57770 

Mr . Diego Rosetta 

Santo Domingo Pueblo 

Santo Domingo Pueblo, New Mexico 87052 


- R - (Continued) 

S - (Continued) 

Mr. Charles Rovin 
Chief, Welfare Branch 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Washington, D. C. 20240 

Mr. Alex Roye 
Tribal Representative 
Ratcliffe Tribe of Wisconsin 
Bayfield, Wisconsin 54814 

- ST. - 

Mr. Harry St. Germaine 
Tribal Councilman 
Chippewa Tribe 

Lac du Flambeau, Wisconsin 54538 

Mr. Jim St. John 

Regional Office, USES 

Bureau of Employment Security, USDL 

Room 330, Mayflower Building 

411 North Akard Street 

Dallas, Texas 75201 

Mr. Emmett St. Marie 
Morongo Reservation 
Box 1123 

Banning, California 92220 

- S - 

Mr. Joe Sagataw 
Tribal Chief 

Michigan Tribal Representative 
Wilson, Michigan 49896 

Mr. Max R. Salazar 
Deputy Director 

Employment Security Commission 
of New Mexico 
Box 1928 

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87114 

Mr. Freddie Sam 
Tribal Representative 
Fort McDermitt Paiute Shoshone Tribe 
Box 39 

McDermitt, Nevada 89421 

Mr. Alfred Sam alar 
Paiute Tribe 
Box 38 

Moapa, Nevada 89025 

Mr. Martin J. Sampson 

Representative for Secretary -Treasurer 

Snoqualmie Tribe 

2239 East Sherman Street 

Tacoma, Washington 98404 

Mr. James Samson 
Moapa Business Council 
Box 18 

Moapa, Nevada 89025 

Mr. Joe Sanchez 

Northern Pueblo CAP-NYC 

San Juan Pueblo, New Mexico 8/566 

Lena San Diego 

Cocopah Tribal Council 
Cocopah Tribe 
P. O. Box 638 
Somerton, Arizona 85350 

Agnes Savilla 
Treasurer, Tribal Council 
Colorado Indian Tribes 
Route 1, Box 43 
Parker, Arizona 85344 

Mr. David A. Sawyer 
Director of Community Relations 
Office of the Secretary of Defense 
Washington, D. C. 20301 

Mr. Charles M. Schad 
Director, Special Services 
Black Hills State College 
1008 Spartan Drive 
Spearfish, South Dakota 57783 

Mr. Ulver Schliemann 

Regional Coordinator, USES 

Bureau of Employment Security, USDL 

Room 2200, Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 


- S - (Continued) 

Mr. George E. Schmidt 

Chief, Branch of Industrial Development 

Bureau of Indian Affairs 

Washington, D. C. 20240 

Mr. Bernard Schwarz 
Arizona State Employment Service 
1717 We&t Jefferson Street 
P. O. Box 6339 
Phoenix, Arizona 85007 

Mr. Dempsey Scott 
Tribal Chairman 
Colorado River Tribes 
Box 642 

Parker, Arizona 85344 

Mr. Henry W. Scott 
Vice Chairman 

Sac and Fox Tribe of Oklahoma 
Route 2 

Cushing, Oklahoma 74023 

Mr. Desmond Sealy 
Special Assistant to the 

Administrator for Equal Opportunity 
Neighborhood Youth Corps 
1726 M Street, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20036 

Mr. Homey Secakuku 

Personnel Officer 

Ute Indian Tribe 

Unitah and Ouray Reservation 

Fort Duchesne, Utah 84059 

Mr. Abbott Sekaquaptewa 
Executive Director 
Ilopi Tribe 
Box 98 

Oraibi, Arizona 86039 

Mr. Martin Seneca 
University of Utah 
Office of Economic Opportunity 
Salt Lake City, Utah 84112 

Mr. Wilfred Shaw 

Pyramid Lake Tribal Council of 
Nixon, Nevada 
P. O. Box 66 

Wadsworth, Nevada 89442 

- S - (Continued) 

Ruth Shuker 
Secretary, NAIRO 
Commission on Human Relations 
City Hall 

Kansas City, Kansas 66101 

Mr. James Ashley Sibley, Jr. 

Coordinator - Consultant 
Gulf South Research Institute 
2007 Cloverdale 
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808 

Mr. Edward Sigo 
Suquamish Tribe 
Route 1, Box 258 
Shelton, Washington 98584 

Mrs. Florence Sigo 
Squaxin Tribe, Chairman 
Route 1, Box 258 
Shelton, Washington 98584 

Amarante Silva 
Tribal Secretary 
Santa Clara Tribal Council 
Santa Clara Pueblo 
Espanola, New Mexico 87532 

Mr. Walden Silva 
Deputy Director 

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission 
11209 Ralph, N. E. 

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87112 

Mr. Harry Simons 

Mille Lacs Community Action Program 
Star Route 

Onamia, Minnesota 56359 

Mr. Lawrence P. Singer 
Santa Clara Tribal Council 
Santa Clara Pueblo 
Espanola, New Mexico 87532 

Mr. Antoine Skahan 
Tribal Representative 
Yakima Tribal Council 
Box 33, Route 7 
Yakima, Washington 98903 

- S - (Continued) 

Mr. Artley Skenandore 

Legislative Representative 

Great Lakes (Wise.) Inter Tribal Council 

Route 2 

West De Pere, Wisconsin 54 178 

Mrs. Pauline Snail 
Vice Secretary to Council 
Crow Tribe, Crow Agency 
Lodge Grass, Montana 59050 

Mr. Stanley Smartlowit 

Yakima Tribal Council 
Box 632 

Toppenish, Washington 98948 

Mr. Alvin E. Smith 
Vice Chief of Eastern Band of 

Cherokee, North Carolina 28719 

Mr. Crosslin Snith 
Tribal Resource Officer 
Cherokee Tribe 
Box 173 

Tahlequah, Oklahoma 74464 

Mr. Theodore Smith 
Apache Tribe, Camp Verde 
2212 North 37th Avenue 
Phoenix, Arizona 85008 

Mr. Lawrence Snaki 

Delaware Tribal Council 
401 East Steed 

Midwest City, Oklahoma 73110 

Dr. W. A. Soboleff 
Alaskan Native Brotherhood 
10003 - 310 B Street 
Juneau, Alaska 99801 

Mr. Arnie Solem 

Regional Administrator 

Bureau of Employment Security, USDL 

Room 2200, Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 


- S - (Continued) 

Mr. William P. Soza 
Soboba Mission 
44108 East Florida 
Hemet, California 92343 

Mr. Clyde Spencer 

Chief Consultant 

Utah State Employment Service 

174 Social Hall Avenue 

Salt Lake City, Utah 84111 

Mr. Samuel Stands 
Oglala Sioux Tribe 
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 57770 

Mr. Reeves Steel 
Council Member 
Apache Tribe 
Box 353 

Ft. Thomas, Arizona 85536 

Mr. Robert Steele 
Vice Chairman 
Goshute Tribal Council 
Goshute Reservation, Utah (& Nevada) 
(Nearest Post Office: Currie, Nevada 89313) 

Mr. David W. Stevens 
Pennsylvania State University 
411 Bourke Building 
University Park, Pennsylvania 16802 

Mr. Edward Stonich 

Bureau of Employment Security 

U. S. Department of Labor 

Room 748, 219 South Dearborn Street 

Chicago, Illinois 60604 

Mr. Frank Sullivan, Jr. 

Clallam Tribe 
Star Route 2, Box 237 
Kingston, Washington 98346 

Mr. Simon Sumner 
Council Member 

Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians 
Red Lake, Minnesota 56671 


- S - (Continued) 

Mr. George S. Sunday 
Plans for Progress 
U. S. Department of Labor 
1800 G Street, N. W. 

Suite 708 

Washington, D. C. 20006 

- T - 

Mr. Clarence Tall Bull 

Area Vice President 

National Congress of American Indians 

224 East Coe Drive 

Midwest City, Oklahoma 73110 

Mr. Eugene W. Taylor 

St . Croix Band of Lake Superior 
Chippewa Indians of Wisconsin 
Route 2 

Webster, Wisconsin 54893 

Mrs. Arvina Thayer 
Winnebago Tribe 
Route 4 

Black River Falls, Wisconsin 54615 

Loraine Thompson 
Navajo Tribe 

Gallup, New Mexico 87301 

Mr. Buffalo Tiger 

Miccosukee Tribe of Florida 
P. O. Box 44021, Tamiami. Station 
Miami, Florida 33144 

Mr. Raymond C. Tillotson 

Assistant Regional Director, Region VII 

Bureau of Apprenticeship & Training 

2811 Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Tom Tommaney 
Haskell Institute 
Lawrence, Kansas 66044 

- T - (Continued) 

Mr. Herman Townsend 


Tribal Council 

Fort Bidwell Reservation (California) 
Box 552 

Bly, Oregon 97622 

Mr. James L. Townsend 
U. S. Employment Service 
1730 M Street, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20036 

Mr. Lyman Trahan 

Flathead Tribe of Montana 
St. Ignatius, Montana 59865 

Mr. Joseph Trepania 

Lac Courte Oriellas Tribe 
Route 2 

Hayward, Wisconsin 54843 

Mr. Robert Treuer 
CAP Director 
Red Lake CAP 

Red Lake, Minnesota 56671 

Mr. George J. Trombold 
Director of Industrial Relations 
National Association of Manufacturers 
Industrial Relations Committee 
The Boeing Company, Wichita Division 
3801 South Oliver 
Wichita, Kansas 67210 

- V - 

Mr. Cato Valandra 
Tribal Chairman 
Rosebud Sioux Tribe 
Rosebud, South Dakota 57570 

Mr. Emmett Vicenti 
Jicarilla Apache Tribe 
Box 59 

Dulce, New Mexico 87528 

- V - (Continued) 

Mr . Melvin Vicenti 
Vice Chairman 
Jicarilla Apache Tribe 
Box 68 

Dulce, New Mexico 87528 

Mr. Jerome Vidovich 
Tribal Council Member 
Pyramid Lake Council 
Box 64 

Wadsworth, Nevada 89442 

Mr. Paul R. Vigil 

Regional MDTA Coordinator 

Bureau of Employment Security 

U. S. Department of Labor 

Room 2200, Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. B. A. Villareal 
Compliance Officer 

Office of Equal Employment Opportunity 
7015 Glenwood 

Overland Park, Kansas 66204 

Mr. Henry von Avery 

Regional Industrial Training Adviser 

Bureau of Apprenticeship & Training 

U. S. Department of Labor 

4805 Maffitt Avenue 

St. Louis, Missouri 63113 

Mr. Walter Voorhees 
Secretary to the Council 
Walker River Paiute Tribe 
Schurz, Nevada 89427 

- W - 

Mr. Sam Wahneetah 
Tribal Chairman 
Eastern Band of Cherokees 
Cherokee, North Carolina 28719 

Mr. J. Wahpepah 
Tribal Chairman 
Kickapoo Tribe 
Jones, Oklahoma 73125 


- W - (Continued) 

Mr. Keith Wakeman 

Flandreau - Santee Sioux Tribe 
Route 1 

Flandreau, South Dakota 57028 

Mr. Mel Walker 

Community Action Program 
Three Affiliated Tribes 
Mandaree, North Dakota 58757 

Reba Walker 

National Congress of American Indians 
79 Emerson 

Denver, Colorado 80229 

Mr. Ralph S. Walker 

Office of Manpower, Policy, Evaluation 
and Research 

Bureau of Employment Security 
U. S. Department of Labor 
1730 M Street, N. W. 

Washington, D. C. 20036 

Mr. Herman Wallace 

Manpower Development Specialist 

Bureau of Work Programs 

Room 3000, Federal Office Building 

911 Walnut Street 

Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. F. J. Walsh 

Wisconsin State Employment Service 
Madison, Wisconsin 53703 

Mr. Thomas Walsh 
Special Services Adviser 
Regional Office 

Bureau of Family Services, DHEW 
10614 Walrond Avenue 
Kansas City, Missouri 64137 

Mr . Howard Watson 
Chief, Employment Service 
Nebraska Department of Labor 
67 19 "Y" Street 
Lincoln, Nebraska 68505 

- W - (Continued) 

W - (Continued) 

Mr. William D. Weimar 
Employment Service Technician 
Missouri Division of Employment Security 
Kansas City Youth Opportunity Center 
4103 East 106th Terrace 
Kansas City, Missouri 64137 

Charlotte Wells 
Vice President 

Prairie Island Community Council 

528 Marion Street 

St. Paul, Minnesota 55103 

Gwendolyn Wells 
Employment Officer 

4011 Linwood Boulevard 
Kansas City, Missouri 64128 

Mr. George Wessell 

Tribal Chairman of the Tuolumne Tribe 

Me~Wuk Tribe 

Route 1, Box 565 

Tuolumne, California 95379 

Mr. Walter Wetzel 
Special Consultant 
National Recruiting 
Job Corps, OEO 
1611 Kennedy Place 
Washington, D. C. 20011 

Mr.. Bert Whalen 

Michigan Employment Security Division 
7310 Woodward 
Detroit, Michigan 48202 

Dr. T. P. Whelan 
Field Representative 
U. S. Office of Education 
601 East 12th Street 
Kansas City, Missouri 64106 

Mr. Frank White 
Minority Groups Division 
Employment Security Department 
Seattle", Washington 98104 

Mr. William M. White 

Manpower Administrator's Representative 

U. S. Department of Labor 

Manpower Administration 

Room 1014, 

208 North Broadway 

St. Louis, Missouri 63102 

Mr. Albert L. Whitebird 
Representative Tribal Chairman 
Bad River Tribal Council 
Bad River Indian Reservation 
Box 64 

Odanah, Wisconsin 54861 

Mr. Robert Whitebird 
Quapaw Indian Tribe 
204 Whitebird Avenue 
Quapaw, Oklahoma 74363 

Katharine Whitehorn 

Osage Tribe 

702 Oak Ridge Drive 

Sand Springs, Oklahoma 74063 

Rev. Mitchell Whiterabbit 
Tribal Representative 
Wisconsin Winnebago Tribe 
Route 4 

Black River Falls, Wisconsin 54615 

Mrs. Laura Wilbur 
Secretary -Treasurer 
Swinomish Tribal Community 
P. O. Box 277 

LaConner, Washington 98257 

Mr. Tandy Wilbur 

Swinomish Tribal Community 
or Skagit Tribe 
P. O. Box 277 

LaConner, Washington 98257 

Mr. Bruce A. Wilkie 
Executive Director 
Makah Tribal Council 
P. O. Box 166 

Neah Bay, Washington ^8357 

- W - (Continued) 

- W - (Continued) 

Mr. Bill Willard 
Tribal Chairman 
Duwamish Tribe 
812 - 12th Street, N. E. 

Auburn, Washington 98002 

Miss Dorothy Williams 

Employment Service Adviser 

U. S. Employment Service 

Bureau of Employment Security, USDL 

1730 M Street, N. W., Room 811 

Washington, D. C. 20036 

Mr. Herman Williams 
Tulalip Tribe 
Box 956 

Marysville, Washington 98270 

Mr. Allen Wilson 

Community Action Program 
Leech Lake Reservation 
Ball Club, Minnesota 56622 

Mr. Angus A. Wilson 

Nez -Perce Tribe of Idaho 
(Lapuai, Idaho) 

932 Park Avenue 
Lewiston, Idaho 83501 

Mr. Eugene B. Wilson 
Tribal Affairs Officer 
U. S. Public Health Service 
821 Seventeenth Avenue, S. E. 
Aberdeen, South Dakota 57401 

Dr. Jim Wilson 

Office of Economic Opportunity 
7208 Glendora Drive, S. E. 

Washington, D. C. 20028 

Mr. Robert Wilson 

Missouri Employment Security Division 
812 Minnesota 

Jefferson City, Missouri 65101 

Mr. Tom Wilson 
Bureau of Indian Affairs 
2207 North Nottingham 
Arlington, Virginia 22205 

Mr. Edmond V. Worley 
Regional Director 
U. S. Employment Service 
Bureau of Employment Security 
18666 Rocky River Oval 
Cleveland, Ohio 44116 

Mr. Frank Wright 
Representative of Puyallup Tribe 
5809 North Levee Road, East 
Tacoma, Washington 98424 

Mr. Francis Wyasket 

Tribal Chairman 

Ute Indian Tribe 

Unitah and Ouray Reservation 

Fort Duchesne, Utah 84059 

- Y - 

Mr. Sam Yankee 

Mille Lacs Reservation 
McGregor, Minnesota 55760 

Mr. J. V. Yaukey 
Executive Assistant 

South Dakota Department of Employment 

607 North Fourth Street 
Aberdeen, South Dakota 57401 

Mr. Percy Youckton 
Vice Chairman 
Chehalis Tribe 
Route 1 

Oakville, Washington 98568 

Mr. George Young Bear 
Chief, Sac & Fox Tribal Council 
Sac & Fox Tribe of the Mississippi in 

P. O. Box 121 
Tama, Iowa 52339 

Mr. William Youpee 
Tribal Chairman 
Fort Peck Tribes 
Box 124 

Poplar, Montana 59255 


„ n __ 

£j • 

Mr. Lewis L. Zadoka 

Wichita Indian Tribe of Oklahoma 
Route 1 

Anadarko, Oklahoma 73005